In defense of Hogan.

[Zeeboe]

Hogan haters are always saying that the Hulkster refuses to pass the torch to anyone. These people claim to be hardcore wrestling fans and yet they conveniently forget that Hulk has tried to give the spotlight to many wrestlers and yet they all ended up messing up what Hogan gave them. Let's review...

1. The Ultimate Warrior - He beat Hulk Hogan in a clean victory at Wrestlemania VI to win the WWF Title and retain the Intercontinental Title. Was targeted for big things, but lost the belt to Sgt. Slaughter, went crazy and all but vanished but not before demanding more money from Vince hours before a PPV and no-showing events. Then eventually ended up in WCW and all he wanted to do was talk. Then he disappeared from the wrestling world and all he does now is whine on his website and goes to colleges making anti-gay comments.

2. Sting - Beat Hogan for the WCW Title at Starrcade and relaunched his career as the "Dark Crow" Sting. Lost momentum and then the title to Savage. Started not wearing his cool trenchcoat to the ring after the Columbine massacre and lost more momentum, had a failed heel turn, and got wiped out of WCW by the then champ Scott Steiner, only to return on the last Nitro. Turned to God and refuses to work for WWE.

3. Goldberg - Took the WCW title from Hogan on Nitro, and eventually lost it back to Nash. After the "fingerpoke of doom" match, lost a lot of momentum. Like Sting, had a failed heel turn, and several injuries wiped out a lot of his heat. And then had a very crappy run in the WWE.

4. Billy Kidman - After the back and forth verbal pot shots Kidman and Hogan gave each other for a while, Kidman turned heel and targeted Hogan in what was definitely the highlight of Kidman's boring character. After a few months of cheap shots, he finally had his career handed to him by Hogan. Kidman soon went back to being a babyface, and a dull one at that.

5. The Rock - In one of the best angles in recent times, The Rock beat Hogan in a match that brought the house down. The Rock soon became a full-time movie star and retired from wrestling.

6. Brock Lesnar - He had a huge build-up, was beating every wrestler left and right and put an end to Hogan's huge 2002 run and like so many others Hogan passed the torch to, he screwed up.

Then you have Randy Orton. It's a good thing Hogan didn't lay out for Orton because look what happened to him.

Hogan tried with a lot of wrestlers and they all just couldn't handle it. It's not Hogan's fault that those guys just couldn't hold the torch and burned themselves.

[Ben Rodrigues]

Have you even seen said Sting and Billy Kidman matches?

[Kane Knight]

He's Val Venis. He knows more about wrestling than any man alive...Well, besides Doug Basham.

[RP]

Can you please not drop your knowledge on me Val Venus

[Zeeboe]

It's just an online handle..and your responses are just excuses not to debate with me because you know there is nothing to debate about cause I'm right. Some of you just hate for the sake of hating.

[Londoner]

Have you seen some of the articles on Hogan and his attitude? Read them, then judge, idiot.

[Kane Knight]

It's just an online handle..and your responses are just excuses not to debate with me because you know there is nothing to debate about cause I'm right. Some of you just hate for the sake of hating.

Actually, my response was ignoring your content because I generally find "Devil's Advocate" roles to be poorly thought or half-ass in execution.

It was also intended in irony to state that you probably haven't seen said matches. Because, you know...If you had....

[IC Champion]

Hogan still has a massive Ego and hasnt contributed anything in almost 10 years. His last few WWE runs were shit, and he should start thinking about callin it quits for good.

[Hanso Amore]

Just because they Went "over" doesn't mean shit. Hogan should have just walked out of WM 6, instead, he starts crying and slowly draws his way back, making the moment less about the Warrior Winning, but rather him Losing.

If you call Sting losing, then winning later on some bullshit dusty finish that killed a great feud, putting someone over, well you sir are right.

He No Sold Kidman, and only did the feud as a way at Torrie and an excuse to try and save his career by changing to FUNB Hogan. He got bored, dropped it and Kidman.

The Rock.....Come on. The Rock was already at his peak when hogan came in, and he was lucky to be a part of that match. it had beens years since he walked out at the WCW PPV and no one saw anything of him. The Rock saved his career if anything. Remember before that? That comeback is what got him back on track as Hogan he is today.

Brock? I'm pretty sure Hogan didn't decide on that one. He had no choice but to lose. Everyone did.

What a stand up guy. He has always been about Hogan and no one else. He made the business what it is, but he has also done more damage than anyone.

[Zeeboe]

Have you even seen said Sting and Billy Kidman matches?

Not in a very long time.

Have you seen some of the articles on Hogan and his attitude? Read them, then judge, idiot.

I'm not talking about his attitude. I'm talking about what he's done for wrestling.

Hogan still has a massive Ego and hasnt contributed anything in almost 10 years. His last few WWE runs were shit, and he should start thinking about callin it quits for good.

You gotta be kidding. Have you heard some of the responses Hogan gets when he's on WWE TV? Hogan is where he's at today...not because he uses his backstage pull to get there....but because he gets ten minute standing ovations.


Just because they Went "over" doesn't mean shit. Hogan should have just walked out of WM 6, instead, he starts crying and slowly draws his way back, making the moment less about the Warrior Winning, but rather him Losing.

The Warrior burned himself with the torch Hogan gave him and he wasn't making any money for Vince. It's all about money and Hulk Hogan has always brought that in.

Vince gave the ball to a lot of wrestlers to try and lead the company but none of them ran as long and as hard as Hulk Hogan did and none of them have stood the test of time unlike the Hulkster.

The Rock.....Come on. The Rock was already at his peak when hogan came in, and he was lucky to be a part of that match. it had beens years since he walked out at the WCW PPV and no one saw anything of him. The Rock saved his career if anything. Remember before that? That comeback is what got him back on track as Hogan he is today.

:lol: You're live in a fantasy world. At No Way Out 2002 before Hogan and The Rock even interacted, Hogan was getting louds cheers from the crowd. And the next night in Chicago, Hogan was getting cheers before The Rock even came out. The plans for Hogan was for him to be a heel but no matter what he said and did, people cheered him and Vince had to change things up. Hogan could have wrestled anybody at Wrestlemania and they would have been booed out of the building. The Rock didn't get Hogan back on track. The fans did.

[The MAC]

the crowd put hogan over. They put him over out of nostalgia. When i was a kid and believed wrestling was real i thought he was amazing the way he could take so much punishment them suddenly get angry and point at the guy before booting him in the face and leg dropping.

As you grow up and watch wrestling you start wondering why this guy is still winning with a leg drop when other guys do this in the ring they don't even go for a cover. You log on to the net and read about th bullshit Hogan pulls, how he believes so much of his own hype,how he "no-sells" finishers, how he refuses to put over younger talent...then you realise that he is a senile old asshole.

[chrisat928]

Hogan sucks. What he did for wrestling is great, but as an in ring performer, he sucks. He has the biggest ego in wrestling, as he himself stated on his reality show, "I don't want to be passed by younger guys." The man is 54 years old and has a fake hip, and he's worried about a young wrestler taking his "spot", a "spot" he hasn't had since he left WWF to go to WCW. Which he killed, or at least he was the first nail in the coffin.
The reason he gets such big pops is because people are surprised he's still alive.

[Londoner]

^ Spot on MacGyver.

[KayfabeMan]

Doesn't matter why they put him over, they do.

Hogan may be an asshole in many ways, and I totally agree he is, but he is a legend - the biggest wrestling has ever seen :y:

[Zeeboe]

the crowd put hogan over.

And what's wrong with that? Yes, the people did bring Hulk Hogan back. No debate here. The people love him and that is why he is still going strong and as long as the fans keep feeding Hulkamania, he will keep coming back. Hogan has stood the test of time. People loved him in the 80's and they still live him now and that is why he is the greatest icon in wrestling and why he deserves respect and why he still wrestles.

As far as the net goes, there are two sides to every story. You shouldn't just believe one side without listening to the other.

Also, it's the Hulk Hogan character people love and there's nothing wrong with that. That's what some of these characters are made for. I know the man who plays the character has refused to job before but that's because wrestling is a tough business and nice guys finish last. And Hogan proves that. Ric Flair is mid-carding on WWE now and Hogan refused to do things that he felt would ruin his character and that would.

Hell, if Hogan jobbed all the time you guys would still insult him. I recall back in 2002 when Hogan was jobbing to guys, people were on here making fun of him, saying stuff "how the mighty have fallen" and calling Hogan a jobber and still showing him no respect. Hogan is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't with you guys which is why internet fans have always been a very low force in the wrestling business.

Hogan sucks. What he did for wrestling is great, but as an in ring performer, he sucks.

Hogan just doesn't wrestle the style smarks like. He's a brawler, not a high-flyer or a technical wrestler. There's nothing wrong with the brawling style of wrestling. Austin was a brawler too as is The Undertaker. Also, there's more to sports entertainment then just wrestling. Hulk Hogan may have been the greatest technical wrestler but he was a positive force and a hero to people when the world needed one. Have you noticed he is the most popular whenever the U.S.A. is having problems? Back in the 80's when the U.S.A. was sweating over Russia and then in recent years when the U.S.A. has been feuding with Bin Laden and Iraq. Hogan just brings a sense of comfort to the world I believe.

He has the biggest ego in wrestling

Because the fans feed that ego. So don't blame Hogan, blame us.

as he himself stated on his reality show, "I don't want to be passed by younger guys."

Because every guy he puts over drops the ball.

The man is 54 years old

53, and I don't see what his age has to done with anything. There are guys older then him that still wrestle. Besides, age is just a number and you're only as old as you feel. And he is still the same exact person he was twenty years ago. Age is nothing. Just because a guy has had more birthday's then you doesn't mean he's dead and should stop living. And despite his age, he is still as popular as he ever was.

The fake hip comment was just immature and irrelevant to this topic.

and he's worried about a young wrestler taking his "spot", a "spot" he hasn't had since he left WWF to go to WCW. Which he killed, or at least he was the first nail in the coffin.

I don't think he's worried at all. He has no reason to be. Because there will only be one Hulk Hogan.

The reason he gets such big pops is because people are surprised he's still alive.

:roll:

[IC Champion]

Doesn't matter why they put him over, they do.

Hogan may be an asshole in many ways, and I totally agree he is, but he is a legend - the biggest wrestling has ever seen :y:
BLASPHEMY

[Zeeboe]

BLASPHEMY

Telling the truth is not a sin.

[DAMN iNATOR]

How's this for truth then? Hogan bodyslams André at WrestleMania III, making probably the most famous moment in WrestleMania history so far. Fast forward 20 years + almost a month to April 27th 2007: Hulk Hogan defeated Paul "The Great" Wight at PMG Clash of Legends on April 27 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_27), 2007 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007) when he picked up and body slammed Wight and pinned him with the leg drop. Gee, sound like anything that might have happened at said WrestleMania III 20 years ago? Case in point: Hogan lives too much in the past and feeds too much off the crowd to even walk into the same arena as today's WWE superstars. The future has passed Hogan by, and he will always continue to live in the '80s as far as wrestling is concerned, and as such, he just needs to hang it up once and for all, and stop instead insisting on "one more match", where all he does is whine and cry to Vince that he should win with his gay little leg-drop routine every time. The fans are sick of it, and I'm sure the WWE superstars of today are too.

[Londoner]

Im sick of how he always hulks up every match and every wrestler that faces him looks stupid and has to act like they've never seen it before.

[IC Champion]

Now that was the Gospel Truth

[St. Jimmy]

In Defense of Hogan:
http://www.geocities.com/thomasegleston/hitler_baby.jpg
Hitler Likes Babies.

[Zeeboe]

The fans are sick of it

Interesting. Say, do you know who those thousands of people are in wrestling arena's that stand up and cheer and chant "HOGAN" for ten minutes whenever Hulk wrestles?

St. Jimmy - Comparing a man who has made millions of people happy to a man who murdered millions of people is just stupid and this is the only response you'll get from me in regards of that.

[IC Champion]

Interesting. Say, do you know who those thousands of people are in wrestling arena's that stand up and cheer and chant "HOGAN" for ten minutes whenever Hulk wrestles?

St. Jimmy - Comparing a man who has made millions of people happy to a man who murdered millions of people is just stupid and this is the only response you'll get from me in regards of that.
Hitler didnt make millions of Germans happy? Maybe they didnt love him and stand in the streets for hours on end just to watch him walk by.

[The One]

LOL. Instant Classic is once again showing why his user name is so fitting. :y:

[St. Jimmy]

Instant Classic is DEAD ON, sir.

[The Naitch]

Scott Storch and Hogan get cranked called

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[Zeeboe]

The Hitler thing and the above crank call is stupid and a lame way to get the attention off what we are talking about and it's a coward way little messed up way of saying..."I just got beat!".

[Kane Knight]

You gotta be kidding. Have you heard some of the responses Hogan gets when he's on WWE TV? Hogan is where he's at today...not because he uses his backstage pull to get there....but because he gets ten minute standing ovations.

He gets them because they let him do that. You could get the same ovation from most legends.

Plus, pops are a poor mark. One of the shows I went to had Teddy Long (Then a ref, not GM or a manager) get a pop comparable to the wrestlers. Scotty sometimes gets pops that rival the main eventers. Would you use that to Justify Scotty 2 Hotty in a ME position?

[Kane Knight]

Because every guy he puts over drops the ball.

"You know, ladies, the Big Valbowski and a big pile of horseshit have a lot in common..."

[M-A-G]

The only two people I can think of who were legitimately put over by Hogan were Brock and Goldberg and that's cause he was promised return jobs from them down the line. I appreciate what he did for wrestling but that was so long ago that it doesn't matter anymore. Yes, he's a legend. Yes, he helped draw some serious money for the company. Now it's someone else's turn.

[M-A-G]

1. The Ultimate Warrior - He beat Hulk Hogan in a clean victory at Wrestlemania VI to win the WWF Title and retain the Intercontinental Title. Was targeted for big things, but lost the belt to Sgt. Slaughter, went crazy and all but vanished but not before demanding more money from Vince hours before a PPV and no-showing events. Then eventually ended up in WCW and all he wanted to do was talk. Then he disappeared from the wrestling world and all he does now is whine on his website and goes to colleges making anti-gay comments.

Quite possibly the greatest match they ever had thanks to some serious coreography. A loss for Hogan, sure, but he ended up weaseling his way back anymay.

2. Sting - Beat Hogan for the WCW Title at Starrcade and relaunched his career as the "Dark Crow" Sting. Lost momentum and then the title to Savage. Started not wearing his cool trenchcoat to the ring after the Columbine massacre and lost more momentum, had a failed heel turn, and got wiped out of WCW by the then champ Scott Steiner, only to return on the last Nitro. Turned to God and refuses to work for WWE.

Yeah, Sting beat Hogan in the same sense that I can beat a three-legged dog dying of pneumonia. Hogan defeated him cleanly in a match that was ONE YEAR in the making where everyone was dying to see Sting beat the ever-loving snot out of Hogan. One Dusty finish later and you have the lamest title win this side of the Fingerpoke of Doom. Sting's later character booking can be blamed on the writers, not Sting himself.

3. Goldberg - Took the WCW title from Hogan on Nitro, and eventually lost it back to Nash. After the "fingerpoke of doom" match, lost a lot of momentum. Like Sting, had a failed heel turn, and several injuries wiped out a lot of his heat. And then had a very crappy run in the WWE.

Again, that's not the fault of the guy in question. Who had the right to end Goldberg's streak prematurely when he was busy making everyone rich?

4. Billy Kidman - After the back and forth verbal pot shots Kidman and Hogan gave each other for a while, Kidman turned heel and targeted Hogan in what was definitely the highlight of Kidman's boring character. After a few months of cheap shots, he finally had his career handed to him by Hogan. Kidman soon went back to being a babyface, and a dull one at that.

Losing to someone and putting them over are two different things. Not to mention Billy Kidman is a lame ass choice for a main event push. Hogan didn't do squat here.

5. The Rock - In one of the best angles in recent times, The Rock beat Hogan in a match that brought the house down. The Rock soon became a full-time movie star and retired from wrestling.

Hogan should've been blessed that the Rock was willing to do the work of 10 guys at WM 18 to make sure His Hulkness still looked watchable. Hogan should also take an example from the Rock with that whole retirement thing considering he's older.

6. Brock Lesnar - He had a huge build-up, was beating every wrestler left and right and put an end to Hogan's huge 2002 run and like so many others Hogan passed the torch to, he screwed up.

Hogan wanted a job in return from Brock so their was no altruism here either. Not to mention that Brock was bland with no passion for wrestling anyway.

Then you have Randy Orton. It's a good thing Hogan didn't lay out for Orton because look what happened to him.

And look what happened to Hogan. Hurt his knee getting up FROM HIS COUCH and doesn't even show up on a regular basis. What benefit does Hogan get from a win over a guy who's literally half his age with the gimmick of a legend killer? I don't like Orton, mind you but even I have to admit that was pretty retarded. Don't speak as if Hogan has the right to some sort of immunity because he doesn't.

[Kane Knight]

MAG. It's more that Sting Beat Hogan in the way that I could beat Mike Tyson if he had an aneurism before he hit me.

[Jeritron]

Ultimate Warrior- Probably the only clean, unsabotaged job he ever did. He did it knowing Warrior wouldn't last, and gave Vince the "I told you so" treatment, starting right after the match.

Sting- If you saw Starrcade you'd know this example is only working against you. He in real life paid Nick Patrick to do the count at a normal pace, when it was supposed to be slow. He also sabotaged Sting's career and any momentum by convincing Eric Bischoff "he didn't spend enough time at the tanning bed".

Goldberg- Only jobbed to him before leaving in order to make it look to higher-ups in attendance at the big Georgia show that he drew the house. Did it under the condition that Goldberg job the title back "when the time is right". This of course ended up leading to the fingerpoke of doom catastrophe and Hogan taking the belt off Goldberg with Nash as a transition. Killed Goldberg.

Billy Kidman-You're kidding right? He never actually put him over and if you saw it you'd know that. He said Kidman "couldn't headline a flea market" and refused to do anything meaningful or decisive to help put him over. So he picked up a few pins after cheating, run-ins, swerves, etc. This doesn't matter. By that logic HHH put over the Brooklyn Brawler and Vince McMahon. He didn't do anything to help Kidman.

The Rock - Damn right he jobbed, but it was only to make himself look good in his new run with WWF and it's because Vince is in charge. But he still slimed around. He only jobbed to Rock knowing what would be in it for him that summer. That's why Austin avoided the match that year, he knew Hogan was clever enough to keep his return match until Wrestlemania and would get bigger fan support.

Brock Lesnar - Only did the job under the condition that he come back and have Brock do the job back. This of course never happened because Vince showed him the door before he could, which is why Vince > Hogan's bullshit.

So you present no real strong examples. I'll give you The Rock and Ultimate Warrior, but in Rock's case it didn't even matter, and both were just to make him look like a good employee. He knew the pros outweighed the cons in these situations.
Same as with Goldberg.


Got any more examples?

[IC Champion]

There you have it, Hogan never did anythign without expecting something in return, that was he nature, that was how he did business.

[Shadow]

And Val, in case you weren't paying attention, THAT'S JUST WRONG!

[Londoner]

Hogan is such an immature prick, winning matches you're told you're going to win isn't that important when you've won so many already. It's like he actually believes these matches are real and he actually wins them.

[Fox]

This argument is mostly null and void, because both sides are partially correct.

To say that Hogan hasn't given ANYTHING back to the business in 10 years is wrong. In WCW, he put over Bill Goldberg and strapped him with the WCW Championship, and he did it completely clean. His match with The Rock is going to go down in wrestling history as one of the greatest contests of all time. His incredible reception when he returned to Smackdown in 2002 was absolutely a moment to remember. And his completely one-sided loss to Brock Lesnar is what helped the Next Big Thing look ready to take on The Rock at Summerslam, at which point, he won his first WWE Championship.

Hogan has also done a lot of dirty, underhanded, cheap things in his career that have sullied not only the careers of other wrestlers, but the viewership of the fans. Arguably, WCW failed because of Hogan's greed (among other reasons) and his inability to step out of the spotlight and let someone else main event for awhile. It was his unwillingness to create new stars in WCW that led to their eventual demise, as we began to step into the new Millenium, it was clear that WCW needed new main eventers (Macho, Hogan, Flair, Sting and Roddy Piper just weren't cutting it anymore like they did in the late 90's...), and unfortunately, it was far too late for WCW.

But despite the bad things Hogan has done in his career, he's also given us, the fans, a lot of great memories and moments that will forever live in wrestling history.

And besides, he wouldn't put over SHAWN MICHAELS. Why would anyone in their right mind try to defend HBK in a matter of putting people over? That's just fucking stupid.

[.44 Magdalene]

According to you, Fox, Hogan (in the last ten years) put over two guys and had one really good match... vs being integral to the death of an entire company.


I don't see how both sides of the argument are equally wrong. Just sayin'.

[Jeritron]

It's not about what he's given to the business. He has given a lot. He gave immense amounts, thanks to what he was given to do so. He was given plenty in return.

His contributions to WWF in the late 80s and early 90s are great, and his contributions to WCW initially with the nWo were comparably meaningful to that company.

However, despite how much he was given it was no excuse for what he took away. He killed WCW practically single handedly. Of course poor decisions business wise by others, and similar political ego moves by other wrestlers were just as instrumental. But Hogan was the captain of the cancerous contingent to WCW, and by being bedfellows with Eric Bischoff, he steered the company and it's leader (in all fairness who shouldn't have allowed himself to be mired) right into the decline that killed them.

Hogan gave plenty, and made his mark. Nobody is arguing that. However, later down the road he took plenty and made his mark in a more negative way. The real problem is that he hung around in a selfish manner, clung to a spot, and sneakily and politically fed his ego and wallet in a self-satisfying destructive way. Those around him shouldn't have allowed it, he shouldn't have done it. So despite the contributions he made, he is equally responsible for what I like to call strip mining.

To use examples of his 'contributions' to the business does not make the point null and void. Since they are few, and all problematic, they only serve the fact that he's destructive. It's also problematic to use them as a way to vindicate him of his behavior. It should be expected, regardless of how much he contributed in his run, for him to put talent over, step out of the way, and allow for the business that helped make him and he helped make to thrive and grow and move forward. That's a duty.

You don't see others who've been on his level of success, (such as Austin Rock Flair and other true legends of the business) carrying on with such a track record of wrong-doing. And if they ever did, which they didn't, their contributions would not be an excuse for doing so. With that being said, they also did was right and should have been expected of them by the business and themselves, and that is pave the way as well as step out of it.
Austin and Rock put over more talent, made more talent look good, and did so much more professionally. They also didn't hang around and become cancers. Flair is still tickin and wrestling, but like them he made others look good, and for years has been content with being out of the limelight. He made a career of making others look good. They're all content with their status as true legends, as should be Hogan. So his shaky and few favors to the future are no excuse.

[M-A-G]

Jeritron needs more cowbell.

[Jeritron]

And besides, he wouldn't put over SHAWN MICHAELS. Why would anyone in their right mind try to defend HBK in a matter of putting people over? That's just fucking stupid.

Doesn't matter. That's not what the basis for his decision were anyways. HBK's actions don't factor into that decision. Especially for Hogan. At least Michaels has changed his ways. And it was hardly about principle for Hogan. It's not like he refused to win because he thought Shawn was a weasle and he was righteous. He wanted to win based on his ego, not an ethical stance. So the past of Michaels regarding jobbing wasn't and isn't a reason for Hogan of all people to not do it.

So Hogan should have done the job to Michaels. Why? It's not a matter of justice regarding Michaels not jobbing, it's a matter of what's right. Hogan didn't need it, he wasn't wrestling full time. Michaels had and continued to work with younger talent on a regualr schedule in WWE, in most cases putting them over (despite what you say about 95-98 HBK). He was a part of the WWE and the rub would have paid off for their fulltime talent who was being used to still generate for the company and it's roster. Hogan was just doing a one-off.
If you wanna bring in the principles of it, Hogan was a guy who turned his back on WWE and left them. He wasn't there, and he only came back occasionally for cash and his own glory. No matter what you want to say about HBK in his politician days, he was always there for the company and always busted his ass. He was loyal and hardworking, always had been and still was. He was still in the company helping them fill arenas, just like he was back in the trenches when they were getting their ass kicked and he was one of the only guys who stuck around despite big money on the other side.
And if you wanna compare Hogan and HBK in terms of doing the job, Michaels put over Stone Cold. I'm not using that as a way to clear him of his wrongdoings, and I do realize there was a lot of bullshit regarding it actually happening, but it did happen. It's something Hogan would not have ever done, and it outweighs any job he ever did. Especially since Michaels didn't do it under the condition that he come back and beat him.

[Skippord]

Why are you arguing with the sock?

[M-A-G]

Mick Foley does it.

[Jeritron]

First of all, I was responding to Fox.
As for Val Venis earlier in the thread when I ran down his list, it was out of principle. Even if it's a joke, and even if my posts are the desire effect, I have to say that shit. I want to.

But mainly I was responding to Fox with my last 2 posts if you noticed. He's not a sock.

[Jeritron]

Plus I wouldn't call it an argument.

[Skippord]

Wasnt talking to you

[FourFifty]

Venis, maybe it's just I've had a bad day and after being awake for 19 hours after one hell of a hang over, but please, shut your godforsaken cock hole you call a mouth.
I was as big of a hulkamaniac as anyone else back when hulkamania was still running wild. I respect and love what he did for the industry, but that's like me saying I respect my boss for giving me a job albeit nowadays I get treated like shit by him. Hogan has taken a big shit on wrestling.
He wasn't a nail in the coffin of WCW, but damned if he wasn't a driving force to its grave. His backstage bullshit and his ego made more problems than WCW could deal with. His creative control ruined him in WCW because it meant if he didn't like the game he could take the goddamn ball and go home.
As of his current state with WWE, fuck Hogan. He wanted more money for WrestleMania than he was worth, and Vince knew it. Let's talk about how HBK should have gone over Hogan. Let's talk about how many last matches Hogan has had, and won. Now let's compare him to Mick Foley who won maybe 3 matches in the past 10 years just to get people on the full time roster over. Let's compare Hogan to a guy like Ric Flair who has put more people over in the last three years than Hulk Hogan has had matches. These past few years Hogan didn't kill his own legend. His legend is now that of a fallen star. A man who once commanded the respect of everyone in the industry and all the fans around the world has turned into a balding, bitter shell of a man who “got injured” when talks of Hogan putting Randy Orton over started.
Now all due respect to Hulk Hogan, and all due respect to you, shut up you ignorant ass.

[Kane Knight]

Mick Foley does it.

Yeah, but the makeup sex is awesome.

First of all, I was responding to Fox.

I think that's the sock in question.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Interesting. Say, do you know who those thousands of people are in wrestling arena's that stand up and cheer and chant "HOGAN" for ten minutes whenever Hulk wrestles?


Yes, I do. They're the fans who've never been to a single wrestling event in their LIVES, yet, they hear that a big name like Hogan will be there, they automatically just HAVE to go and get tickets just for one old-fart wrestler who takes a year just to drive to an arena 5 minutes away from where he lives, and cheer him on, because for all they know, they might as well be living in 1900, because they think the stuff's still real. Those are your Hogan marks, the ones who'll never understand that 90% of what the "pros" do in wrestling is fake, and that no matter what they should cheer for Hogan because he's such an AMAZING role model, and a “REAL American”.
pff...Give me a break, people...:roll:

Any other moronic questions, Venis?

[Goulet]

Val Venis = Vermaat

Or someone trying to be like Vermaat

[BigDaddyCool]

Also, Hogan didn't put Brock over, Brock was already over by that time. Also, I would have loved to see Hogan not job to Brock when he was suppose to.

[Zeeboe]

Yes, I do. They're the fans who've never been to a single wrestling event in their LIVES, yet, they hear that a big name like Hogan will be there, they automatically just HAVE to go and get tickets just for one old-fart wrestler who takes a year just to drive to an arena 5 minutes away from where he lives, and cheer him on, because for all they know, they might as well be living in 1900, because they think the stuff's still real. Those are your Hogan marks, the ones who'll never understand that 90% of what the "pros" do in wrestling is fake, and that no matter what they should cheer for Hogan because he's such an AMAZING role model, and a “REAL American”.
pff...Give me a break, people...:roll:

Any other moronic questions, Venis?

You should not assume things about people just because you disagree with them.

Val Venis = Vermaat

Or someone trying to be like Vermaat

Guess again.

[311]

Does anyone else remember watching Hogan come out on Nitro with the belt for years? I do.

Does anyone else remember watching Hogan finally lose, then, as a result of holding the belt for so long, literally look naked with out it? I do.

And this was 'after' he was considered washed-up.

[Zeeboe]

Also, Hogan didn't put Brock over, Brock was already over by that time. Also, I would have loved to see Hogan not job to Brock when he was suppose to.

Actually, Lesnar was an up and comer at the time. He had not beaten any big names by that point. Matt Hardy and Buh-Buh Ray Dudely are not big names. Hulk Hogan, The Rock and The Undertaker are however.

[FourFifty]

So starting out with Heyman doesn't mean anything?
Or taking Vince's side to help Vince beat Flair for ownership of WWE?
Mark Henry isn't a big deal?
Booker T and RVD aren't big stars?

Lesnar was over before his deal with Hogan.

[Kane Knight]

Not only that, but if we're to judge by pops, like Venis wants, simply listening to his reactions should tell you he was over Pre-Hogan.

[Jeritron]

So starting out with Heyman doesn't mean anything?
Or taking Vince's side to help Vince beat Flair for ownership of WWE?
Mark Henry isn't a big deal?
Booker T and RVD aren't big stars?

Lesnar was over before his deal with Hogan.

Not as much, but the Hogan thing was little more than some heat for his upcoming title shot. The real credit in geting Brock over goes to The Rock, though I think Heyman and Brock himself deserve most of the credit. That and the timing. The fans needed something new and in their face, and Brock was it.

[Theo Dious]

If we're talking about putting Brock over here, fair play to Taker folks.

[DAMN iNATOR]

You should not assume things about people just because you disagree with them.

Hey, I never said you were one of those people outright, now did I? You assumed I was saying that about you just because you happen to be a Hogan fan, I'm not saying you are or you're not, but you certainly seem like a prime candidate to fit in the category of Hogan fans I was talking about.

[Zeeboe]

So starting out with Heyman doesn't mean anything?
Or taking Vince's side to help Vince beat Flair for ownership of WWE?
Mark Henry isn't a big deal?
Booker T and RVD aren't big stars?

Lesnar was over before his deal with Hogan.

Mark Henry? LMAO....you are joking right?

Booker T and RVD yes...but they were not nearly as over as Hulk Hogan, The Rock and The Undertaker...those guys all got much louder pops then T or RVD did.

Hey, I never said you were one of those people outright, now did I? You assumed I was saying that about you just because you happen to be a Hogan fan, I'm not saying you are or you're not, but you certainly seem like a prime candidate to fit in the category of Hogan fans I was talking about.

You're just making personal attacks is what you're doing and you shouldn't pretend to know anything about thousands and thousands of people's personal lives. If you think thousands of people are exactly the same then you need to get out more. The only thing we know that those thousands of people have in common is that they love Hulk Hogan.

[DAMN iNATOR]

You're just making personal attacks is what you're doing and you shouldn't pretend to know anything about thousands and thousands of people's personal lives. If you think thousands of people are exactly the same then you need to get out more. The only thing we know that those thousands of people have in common is that they love Hulk Hogan.

Ok, I get what you’re saying now...all the thousands of so-called Hogan “fans” must be liars, because nobody has ever liked Hogan, even in the slightest, right?:roll: Either that or you’re the only Hulk Hogan fan still living, take your pick...:wave:

[IC Champion]

My stand is the same as a week ago, Hogan sucks, he could never wrestle, and in any other era of wrestling he wouldnt have gotten over the way he did, even when he turned heel he got so over as one because he was a huge face for 15 years plus.

For Hogan it goes in this order, Ego, Money, Himself...and thats about it.

[DAMN iNATOR]

My stand is the same as a week ago, Hogan sucks, he could never wrestle, and in any other era of wrestling he wouldnt have gotten over the way he did, even when he turned heel he got so over as one because he was a huge face for 15 years plus.

...AND because of a certain one Eric Bischoff’s creative genius in WCW ( :y: ), but he’d probably never admit that to anyone, not even himself...

[Zeeboe]

Hulk Hogan was the biggest babyface in professional wrestling long before he went to work for Ted Turner. So him becoming a heel was a major thing and he deserves all the credit for it.

FYI: It was Hogan's idea for his character to become a villian.

[DAMN iNATOR]

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[Kane Knight]

Hulk Hogan was the biggest babyface in professional wrestling long before he went to work for Ted Turner. So him becoming a heel was a major thing and he deserves all the credit for it.

FYI: It was Hogan's idea for his character to become a villian.

Him becoming a heel was the only thing that saved him from losing any chance at a career lasting more than another 6 months...

[taker707]

WWE has announced that the first estimate on buys from WrestleMania 23 was 1.2 million buys. This already makes it the largest pro wrestling PPV event in history. Domestic buys look to be coming in at 768,000 for the event.

Last year's WrestleMania did 980,000 total buys with 636,000 domestic.


and we all know Hogan did participate in wrestlemania 22.


its amazing the first wrestlemania that hogan hasnt been involved with in the past few years. Is now expected to be the largest pro wrestling pay per view in history. i guess other people besides hogan can put butts in the seats as well.:)

[taker707]

Hulk Hogan was the biggest babyface in professional wrestling long before he went to work for Ted Turner. So him becoming a heel was a major thing and he deserves all the credit for it.

FYI: It was Hogan's idea for his character to become a villian.


Um to correct you on something it was Eric Bishoff who came to hogan and asked him to turn heel. The only reason hogan turned heel is because he wanted to be part of the coolest thing in wrestling at the time the NWO. But then hogan had to run that storyline into the ground as well.:yes:

[DRBailey]

Venus, rent or find a copy of WM 9, then come talk yeah? I appreciate Hogans legacy but his attitude and the fact he refused to go gracefully killed WCW or at least contributed to it.

Legend but a Legend with cancer

[Kane Knight]

Legendary cancer?

[DRBailey]

yes legendary cancer,

[M-A-G]

FYI: It was Hogan's idea for his character to become a villian.

Wrong. It was Bischoff's idea and Hogan only went through with it when he noticed Nitro doing better numbers without him and realized his time on top as a face was stale as hell....4 years after everyone else realized it.

[Kane Knight]

Wrong. It was Bischoff's idea and Hogan only went through with it when he noticed Nitro doing better numbers without him and realized his time on top as a face was stale as hell....14 years after everyone else realized it.

[Zeeboe]

Well, according to Hulk Hogan's book and this website...

http://www.wrestleview.com/info/faq/hogan.shtml

It was Hogan's idea to turn heel. Now some of you may think that the info I have is not enough proof but where is your info that claims it wasn't Hogan's idea?

I agree that at Wrestlemania 9 was wrong and Hogan should not have done that but clearly McMahon didn't care. And all that matter was that the fans went home happy and I have seen the main event match at Wrestlemania 9...I saw it last week infact on WWE.com on it's WWE 24/7 service. And the fans were very happy when Hogan won.

[Kane Knight]

Well, according to Hulk Hogan's book and this website...

http://www.wrestleview.com/info/faq/hogan.shtml

It was Hogan's idea to turn heel. Now some of you may not think that the info I have is enough proof but where is your info that claims it wasn't Hogan's idea?

:lol:

[IC Champion]

We should all listen to Hogan and read his book for it is the gospel truth.

[owenbrown]

Well, according to Hulk Hogan's book and this website...

http://www.wrestleview.com/info/faq/hogan.shtml

It was Hogan's idea to turn heel. Now some of you may not think that the info I have is enough proof but where is your info that claims it wasn't Hogan's idea?

I agree that at Wrestlemania 9 was wrong and Hogan should not have done that but clearly McMahon didn't care. And all that matter was that the fans went home happy and I have seen the main event match at Wrestlemania 9...I saw it last week infact on WWE.com on it's WWE 24/7 service. And the fans were very happy when Hogan won.

I am gonna have to agree with the majority and say go ahead and live with your Hogan Kool-Aid drinking one-sided view because you, sir are WRONG!

[Zeeboe]

Well, according to Hulk Hogan's book and this website...

http://www.wrestleview.com/info/faq/hogan.shtml

It was Hogan's idea to turn heel. Now some of you may think that the info I have isn't enough proof but where is your info that claims it wasn't Hogan's idea?

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[FourFifty]

Mark Henry? LMAO....you are joking right?


With his size and how he has been pushed, yes, he is a big deal no matter how much any of us want to deny it. It pains me to give that man any credit but I'll give it where it's due.

[IC Champion]

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That was gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

[Zeeboe]

With his size and how he has been pushed, yes, he is a big deal no matter how much any of us want to deny it. It pains me to give that man any credit but I'll give it where it's due.

The freakin' guy is a nothing nobody. He was a nobody in 96' and he was a nobody in 2002 and guess what? He still is...Lesnar beating him meant nothing. It's main eventers that you have to beat in order to get over and before The Rock and The Undertaker came along, it was Hulk Hogan who put him over.

That was gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

Hey, you homophobic jerk....I didn't post it for you. I posted it for my own amusement because that clip was pretty much the response you and your pals had.

[Kane Knight]

Is Venis still arguing?

I thought he'd give up when it was pointed out that citing the third least sane wrestler's autobiography as "proof" basically is a confession that you have NOTHING.

PS: In my biography, I state that I gave Al Gore the idea to invent the internet.

[FourFifty]

Okay Mr. Venis, IF THAT'S YOUR REAL NAME, defend Hogan for the last few years.

He has lost ONE major match, when there were a few people who could have made an impact if they would have gotten a rub from him. HBK is still going stong and yet he did the job to Hogan, Randy Orton would have been able to become a solid main eventer, I don't even need to mention Hassan, and he thinks he's still worth half the gate (as per WM23).

Defend Hogan in his WCW days where he wouldn't lose a match for the sake of the company. Trash at the Beach 2000 for fuck's sake! Defend Hogan bringing The Warrior into WCW just so he could beat him. Defend Hogan when he was holding down Booker T and Rey.

Let's hear you defend Hogan on his claims that he was a better wrestler than Ric Flair.

[M-A-G]

Is Venis still arguing?

I thought he'd give up when it was pointed out that citing the third least sane wrestler's autobiography as "proof" basically is a confession that you have NOTHING.

PS: In my biography, I state that I gave Al Gore the idea to invent the internet.

Now, see, that's where inaccuracies start because in my autobiography the internet invented itself when I gave it the idea.

[Kane Knight]

Are you calling the Knight a liar? Well let me tell you something, brother! It doesn't matter what you think! The Knight's gonna take his size 15 4E shoe, shine it up reeeeeeeeeal nice, turn that sumbitch sideways, and stick it straight up your candy ass! John Wayne's not dead, he's frozen. And when we find a cure for cancer, we're gonna thaw out the Duke, and he's gonna be pretty pissed off! You know why? Ever taken a cold shower? Well multiply that by about 15 million times, that's how pissed off the Duke's gonna be....

[Theo Dious]

I thought he'd give up when it was pointed out that citing the third least sane wrestler's autobiography...

So wait a minute.

I'm presuming that Warrior is the least sane, who would be the second? Backlund, Angle, or Savage?

[Kane Knight]

I was thinking Savage. Backlund doesn't reach that level of crazy, and Angle is too new a player.

[Theo Dious]

That was my thought too. Backlund my try to drink human blood substitute, but that's just eccentric. Angle MAY be putting up some kind of act, we don't know yet. Savage suffers from extreme paranoid delusions and cut a rap album in an attempt to punk out Hogan. Honestly, if he would ever legally change his name to "SAVAGE," he might be able to challenge Warrior for the title.

Can I also suggest that the Honky Tonk Man needs to be in the top 5?

[Kane Knight]

Honky Tonk man might even beat out Hogan, but I ain't followed his shennanigans.

I mean, you can't follow wrestling without reading about Hogan or Warrior. It's like going on TPWW. Odds are, you're going to trip over Fuky's dick, or if not his, DMI's.

Honky Tonk seems pretty crazy when he comes up. But with less of a frequency of antics reported....Well, we'll never know.

[Theo Dious]

Yeah, plus lately he's been playing nice-nice with WWE. He really was like Warrior Jr. there for a while though. Except with grammar and punctuation.

[Zeeboe]

Okay Mr. Venis, IF THAT'S YOUR REAL NAME, defend Hogan for the last few years.

He has lost ONE major match, when there were a few people who could have made an impact if they would have gotten a rub from him. HBK is still going stong and yet he did the job to Hogan, Randy Orton would have been able to become a solid main eventer, I don't even need to mention Hassan, and he thinks he's still worth half the gate (as per WM23).

Defend Hogan in his WCW days where he wouldn't lose a match for the sake of the company. Trash at the Beach 2000 for fuck's sake! Defend Hogan bringing The Warrior into WCW just so he could beat him. Defend Hogan when he was holding down Booker T and Rey.

Let's hear you defend Hogan on his claims that he was a better wrestler than Ric Flair.

Hulk Hogan never brought the Warrior in just to beat him. That is just an internet smark myth. Did you ever see the Warrior DVD? That topic was brought up.

And I thought I read a few years ago that the Bash at the Beach thing was a work. WCW was trying to appeal to the Internet fan base and look what happened to WCW. Hogan haters can blame Hogan all they want for the death of WCW but the fact of the matter is from 1994 to 2000, Hogan put asses in the seats and money in the bank for WCW. It was when Russo came along and when Bischoff left that WCW began to die.

And with all due respect to guys like Booker T, Rey and the other guys who you all claim Hogan held down....none of those guys could get seventy-five people in a building and have them standing and cheering for ten minutes when they came out even if they paid them.

Hulk Hogan could has gotten people to do that for free.

I know some of you think Hogan's book is BS...but really....who should I believe? Someone who is actually in the wrestling business or a bunch of guys on their parent's computers who are not in the wrestling business? Common knowledge says listen to the guys who are actually in the business.

[Theo Dious]

So wait, you mean I should listen to everything that George Bush says, because he's in the government and I'm not?

[Theo Dious]

Oh and if the BATB thing was a work, howcome there were lawsuits over it?

[Zeeboe]

So wait, you mean I should listen to everything that George Bush says, because he's in the government and I'm not?

No, because others in the goverment disagree with him. If you guys can find me some sources from people who are actually in the business that say Hogan never had the idea to be a heel or that someone else was using theme music to come out to the ring long before Hogan had the idea or that promoters and wrestlers were selling wrestling related merchandise before Hogan and McMahon then post it. Or if there are any books written by people in the business that beg to differ with Hogan then give me a title.

Oh and if the BATB thing was a work, howcome there were lawsuits over it?

I never said I believed that the Bash at the Beach thing was work. I just said I read that it was and I believe it was actually Russo who said it.

And I watched the clip recently on you tube and it just seemed like a work to me based on how the announcers were acting. Here, judge for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGW2IaLqNic

[Theo Dious]

Dude, fucking Hogan said it himself on some TV show I saw, might have been Biography. Basically Hogan was saying that they were discussing how to revitalize the program and Bischoff said to Hogan "How about we have you be a bad guy?" and Hogan said that he felt his blood go cold at the idea. The man can't even keep his own damn stories straight.

[Goulet]

Hulk Hogan is MAKE IT OR BREAK IT for WWE

[Theo Dious]

I just said I read that it was and I believe it was actually Russo who said it.

...do I even have to point out the flaw here?

[Kane Knight]

Dude, fucking Hogan said it himself on some TV show I saw, might have been Biography. Basically Hogan was saying that they were discussing how to revitalize the program and Bischoff said to Hogan "How about we have you be a bad guy?" and Hogan said that he felt his blood go cold at the idea. The man can't even keep his own damn stories straight.

Yup. I remember that, too.

I love the whole "WCW was trying to please the smarks and look where it ended up."

Yeah, Vince is trying to be an entertainment mogul, and look where he's ended up. Apparently, please the smarks or casuals, you draw about the same ratings, Val.

[M-A-G]

I never said I believed that the Bash at the Beach thing was work. I just said I read that it was and I believe it was actually Russo who said it.

And I watched the clip recently on you tube and it just seemed like a work to me based on how the announcers were acting. Here, judge for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGW2IaLqNic

People don't go to court over phony lawsuits considering the lawyers involved could be disbarred (in fairness, the lawyers would have to be oblivious to the fact that they're being worked, too). What started as a work ended up being a lawsuit when Hogan got all pissy with what Russo said at Bash at the Beach when he started pouring on the insults.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Oh and if the BATB thing was a work, howcome there were lawsuits over it?

And how come Wikipedia has this to say about the incident on Hogan’s page?:

[Dan Rather]And I quote: at Bash at the Beach 2000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bash_at_the_Beach#2000), Hogan was involved in a very controversial, real-life incident with Russo. Hogan was scheduled to wrestle Jeff Jarrett (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Jarrett) for the WCW World Heavyweight Championship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WCW_World_Heavyweight_Championship). Hogan felt that he should win because he suspected Russo wasn't going to use him in any future storylines. At that time Hogan still had several months left on his contract and was obligated to appear at more Pay-Per-Views, so he invoked the clause in his contract that gave him creative control over all the finishes of his matches. According to Hogan, it was the only time he ever used that clause in his tenure with WCW. Russo was furious at Hogan because he did not think that Hogan should be the champion.

Unbeknownst to Hogan, Russo told Jarrett to lie down in the middle of the ring and asked Hogan to pin him straight away. A visibly confused Hogan complied with a foot on Jarrett's chest after getting on the microphone and telling Russo "That's why this company is in the damn shape it's in, because of bullshit like this!" Russo responded by coming out and saying that "from day one, that I've been in WCW, I've done nothing... nothing... but deal with the bullshit of the politics behind that curtain" and that since Hogan refused to job (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job_%28professional_wrestling%29) to Jarrett, a new WCW World Heavyweight Championship would be created, setting the stage for a title match between Booker T (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Booker_Huffman) and Jeff Jarrett later that night.

Answer THAT, BITCH!:D

[M-A-G]

It was all a work. Russo and Hogan hatched a scheme for the World Championship picture between themselves. Jarrett was the one out of the loop. In an attempt to appeal the Internet crowd (you know, because that's what every wrestling fan does 24/7: scour the Internet for backstage news) Russo played off of Hogan's creative control clause and created the scenario at Bash at the Beach. All of this done with the excuse to phase Hogan out for a while and bring him back later to feud with the champion at that time with the logic being that no one had beaten him for his title (in storyline terms). The problem was that Russo went a little too far with the speech later that night and Hogan was upset with some of the things he said and stormed out of the building. He later sued for character defamation. It was a very real lawsuit considering Hogan didn't want to work for TNA while Russo was on the payroll (to be fair, this might just be an excuse) and the fact the lawsuit was still ongoing three years after WCW got bought out.

[Zeeboe]

And how come Wikipedia has this to say about the incident on Hogan’s page?:

[Dan Rather]And I quote:

Answer THAT, BITCH!:D

:lol: You insult me and yet you think Wikipedia...a place where anybody can submit anything....is a reliable source. Oh, nice one.

Hey, did you know the Fink and Vince's daughter are married? It's true...the IMDB said that. :roll:

In regards of Russo.....hey, I never said I believed him. I'm just saying what I read.

[Theo Dious]

It was all a work. Russo and Hogan hatched a scheme for the World Championship picture between themselves. Jarrett was the one out of the loop. In an attempt to appeal the Internet crowd (you know, because that's what every wrestling fan does 24/7: scour the Internet for backstage news) Russo played off of Hogan's creative control clause and created the scenario at Bash at the Beach. All of this done with the excuse to phase Hogan out for a while and bring him back later to feud with the champion at that time with the logic being that no one had beaten him for his title (in storyline terms). The problem was that Russo went a little too far with the speech later that night and Hogan was upset with some of the things he said and stormed out of the building. He later sued for character defamation. It was a very real lawsuit considering Hogan didn't want to work for TNA while Russo was on the payroll (to be fair, this might just be an excuse) and the fact the lawsuit was still ongoing three years after WCW got bought out.

Even in that scenerio, it's still a shoot because Jarrett didn't know what was going on, and Russo basically (shot? shooted?) on Hogan during the unfolding. Montreal isn't a work just because Hart was the only one who didn't know, right?

Anyways it's all still a shoot to me, dammit.

[FourFifty]

I know some of you think Hogan's book is BS...but really....who should I believe? Someone who is actually in the wrestling business or a bunch of guys on their parent's computers who are not in the wrestling business? Common knowledge says listen to the guys who are actually in the business.

..............................Do you even read what you type?

Hogan is the biggest self promoter in the industry, and you are going to take a ghost written book as legit fact?



















Can I buy some pot from you?

[M-A-G]

Even in that scenerio, it's still a shoot because Jarrett didn't know what was going on, and Russo basically (shot? shooted?) on Hogan during the unfolding. Montreal isn't a work just because Hart was the only one who didn't know, right?

Anyways it's all still a shoot to me, dammit.

Russo didn't really shoot so much as he got carried away. Jarrett knew about the whole 'lay down' part but not so much about the reasoning behind it all if that makes sense. Ah, f*ck it, listen to me. I'm trying to make sense out of friggin' VINCE RUSSO.

[M-A-G]

:lol: You insult me and yet you think Wikipedia...a place where anybody can submit anything....is a reliable source. Oh, nice one.

Hey, did you know the Fink and Vince's daughter are married? It's true...the IMDB said that. :roll:

In regards of Russo.....hey, I never said I believed him. I'm just saying what I read.

So you're just going to blindly take the word of the guy you just happen to be devoted to basically.

[M-A-G]

Mind you, I don't believe anyone here has spat on what Hogan has done for wrestling in general. Anyone who has a good mind for the business or been a fan for at least 15 or so years can tell you that Hogan was a positive influence on the WWE in the 80s playing a role that was just meant to be played by someone with his stature and his speaking style. Does he deserve recognition? Absolutely. The main beef here is that all of that was done in a time long ago that really doesn't matter anymore. The video game market also crashed in 1980s. Did we get hung up on that for the last score? The question asked now is what has Hogan done recently? Wrestling has done fine without him and the WWE experienced some of its greatest success not just without him but with him working for the competition. If you want to talk about people who have struck out, you have to start with Hogan as the whole basis of his heel turn was the fact that he was being booed and he needed something to bring his career out of the vegetative state it was in. Once the thrill of the heel turn passed, it was the same old stuff over and over again as he just wasn't adding anything positive to WCW. The man who could've done something about that (Goldberg anyone?) ended up getting screwed over by the kind of crap Hogan used to pull. How is hurting a valuable asset doing something good? Is Hogan a legend? Yes. No question. Is he someone we're supposed to worship just because he's Hogan? Hell, no.

[Zeeboe]

..............................Do you even read what you type?

Hogan is the biggest self promoter in the industry, and you are going to take a ghost written book as legit fact?

Where's the proof? See, you guys are the ones who are full of it. You say this random stuff that you wish was true and yet you have no proof for it.

[Theo Dious]

Russo didn't really shoot so much as he got carried away. Jarrett knew about the whole 'lay down' part but not so much about the reasoning behind it all if that makes sense. Ah, f*ck it, listen to me. I'm trying to make sense out of friggin' VINCE RUSSO.

That's the problem. To quote an old friend of mine, everything Vince Russo does on the air is technically a shoot.

[Kane Knight]

Where's the proof? See, you guys are the ones who are full of it. You say this random stuff that you wish was true and yet you have no proof for it.

Where's your proof? I mean, besides Hogan's own words, which have been demonstrated to change over time.....

[Zeeboe]

Where's your proof? I mean, besides Hogan's own words, which have been demonstrated to change over time.....

All I have is Hogan's word. Find me at least two sources from people in the business that say it was not Hogan's idea to turn heel and I'll change my opinion.

Also keep in mind that Bret Hart was supposed to be the third nWo member but when that did not work out, Hogan jumped on the nWo ship. That sounds realistic to me and makes more sense then Bischoff randomly picking one of the top babyfaces in the company to turn heel. McMahon never wanted Hogan to be heel according to his book, even though Hogan suggested it a few times and it would make sense that Bischoff wouldn't want him to turn heel either since Hogan was a huge money maker as a babyface so turning Hogan heel would be a huge risk. But Hogan talked him into it and the rest is history.

Common knowlege rocks. :y:

Mind you, I don't believe anyone here has spat on what Hogan has done for wrestling in general. Anyone who has a good mind for the business or been a fan for at least 15 or so years can tell you that Hogan was a positive influence on the WWE in the 80s playing a role that was just meant to be played by someone with his stature and his speaking style. Does he deserve recognition? Absolutely. The main beef here is that all of that was done in a time long ago that really doesn't matter anymore. The video game market also crashed in 1980s. Did we get hung up on that for the last score? The question asked now is what has Hogan done recently? Wrestling has done fine without him and the WWE experienced some of its greatest success not just without him but with him working for the competition. If you want to talk about people who have struck out, you have to start with Hogan as the whole basis of his heel turn was the fact that he was being booed and he needed something to bring his career out of the vegetative state it was in. Once the thrill of the heel turn passed, it was the same old stuff over and over again as he just wasn't adding anything positive to WCW. The man who could've done something about that (Goldberg anyone?) ended up getting screwed over by the kind of crap Hogan used to pull. How is hurting a valuable asset doing something good? Is Hogan a legend? Yes. No question. Is he someone we're supposed to worship just because he's Hogan? Hell, no.

The nWo was one of the greatest angles of all time and I believe Hulk Hogan is one of the main reasons that it worked out so well because no one would have ever thought Hogan would turn heel but he did and when he did, it brought in ratings and money.

I know at first with just Hall and Nash it went really well but in due time, it would have died out and gotten boring. The nWo was missing something and that was a big name like Hulk Hogan.

Rather anyone here likes it or not, Hulk Hogan is a huge name in wrestling and to have one of the greatest babyface's to turn heel was a very big deal and it helped get the nWo over.

Now what has Hogan done in recent years? Entertain the fans. No, he has not helped move the business along but that's because he's retired. Any retired person just starts to relax and enjoy life and I think that is what Hogan does now in regards of wrestling. He still loves the business and the people still love him so he shows up every now and then in the wrestling world, does his thing and leaves. No one gets hurt or majorly affected by it.

HBK and Orton are heels...heels for the most part are pretty much jobbers...and McMahon wants to send the people home happy and seeing heels win big matches isn't going to make the people happy.

Now it's true heels do win big matches but the babyface ALWAYS gets payback...since Hogan is not interested in a full-time WWE career, it's best for him to wrestle his one match and then move on.

...Unless of course you guys want Hulk to wrestle every week...but if that happened, you'd all hate it like you did in 2002 and 2003.

Again, the man wrestles ONCE a year....what's the big deal?

[Kane Knight]

All I have is Hogan's word. Find me at least two sources from people in the business that say it was not Hogan's idea to turn heel and I'll change my opinion.

Hogan's Word? Except we know that changes over time. He's said in interviews that it was Bisch's idea. Ergo, Hogan's word sucks, you have nothing.

Also keep in mind that Bret Hart was supposed to be the third nWo member but when that did not work out, Hogan jumped on the nWo ship. That sounds realistic to me and makes more sense then Bischoff randomly picking one of the top babyfaces in the company to turn heel.

"realistic" doesn't mean it happened. And I doubt Bisch picked him "at random."

McMahon never wanted Hogan to be heel according to his book, even though Hogan suggested it a few times and it would make sense that Bischoff wouldn't want him to turn heel either since Hogan was a huge money maker as a babyface so turning Hogan heel would be a risk. But Hogan talked them into it and the rest is history.

According to one of the most dubious sources in pro wrestling.

Common knowlege rocks. :y:

The problem with common knowledge is it's generally erroneous and spouted by morons. :y:

[Theo Dious]

Common knowledge over time has told us that the world is flat, that the sun revolves around the Earth, that a human being could never travel faster than 30 mph and survive, that eggs are the worst things for our health, that eggs are the best thing for our health, and that the best way to treat a person for injuries was to allow blood to flow freely.

But hey, Hulk Hogan is a real American, and it's common knowledge that Americans don't lie.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d3/Bill_Clinton.jpg/300px-Bill_Clinton.jpghttp://photo.itc.nps.gov/storage/images/officials/Officials-ImageF.00001.jpeg

God dammit. :rant:

[Zeeboe]

Like I said brother, find me two sources from people in the business that disagree with Hogan and I might change my mind.

[Kane Knight]

Like I said brother, find me two sources from people in the business that disagree with Hogan and I might change my mind.

The mark of a retard.

Sorry, "brother," It's been demonstrated that Hogan's "story" is not reliable. That he's contradicted himself on top of being one of the most full of shit guys in the business.

Nobody's going to bother trying to change your mind. they're just going to laugh at your football helmet.

[Zeeboe]

The mark of a retard.

Sorry, "brother," It's been demonstrated that Hogan's "story" is not reliable. That he's contradicted himself on top of being one of the most full of shit guys in the business.

Nobody's going to bother trying to change your mind. they're just going to laugh at your football helmet.

Right. So anyway, where is the proof at that his book is not reliable? Let me guess what the proof is...it's in the magical land of Oz.....

[Mooияakeя™]

I liked Kidman for 3 things.

The Shooting Star Press
Torrie Wilson
and he strangely reminded me of Bret Hart.

Venis rules. The wrestler that is. - The best thing the Hoganoid did was the comedy match vs. Shawn Michaels.


Jeritron needs more Cowbell


Having only searched the inet for more SNL last week (cos in the UK, it's well out of sync), I know what that means now, and ja, I agree! - Either that or a dick in a box.

[Kane Knight]

:lol:

You really are retarded.

Hogan has contradicted himself and your precious evidence. You don't really need more proof than that. And it comes from Hogan himself.

As such, you should really be the one trying to come up with a real source that verifies this. But you won't. You have no evidence, and you can't find any.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Also keep in mind that Bret Hart was supposed to be the third nWo member but when that did not work out, Hogan jumped on the nWo ship. That sounds realistic to me and makes more sense then Bischoff randomly picking one of the top babyfaces in the company to turn heel. McMahon never wanted Hogan to be heel according to his book, even though Hogan suggested it a few times and it would make sense that Bischoff wouldn't want him to turn heel either since Hogan was a huge money maker as a babyface so turning Hogan heel would be a huge risk. But Hogan talked him into it and the rest is history.

And you criticized me for posting something from Wikipedia, because you thought I believed it?:wtf: Well, let me tell you something, “BROTHER”...Me actually contributing something useful to this thread is nothing like reading a WWE book and believing it, because just look at all the spin they (WWE) put into their books to tell it from a kayfabe point of view only and not a real life point of view. Nice going, you completely missed that.:wave:

HBK and Orton are heels...heels for the most part are pretty much jobbers...and McMahon wants to send the people home happy and seeing heels win big matches isn't going to make the people happy.

Oh, they’re both heels? Really? Because I could’ve sworn that Michaels agreed to a match with Orton for Judgment Day this Sunday...oh, wait that’s right...THEY DID! And guess what? Here’s a ‘fun fact’ you and your butt-buddy, taker707 will surely find surprising...Michaels is a babyface, and Orton is a heel! (W:eek:W...TRUE STORY AND PICS! CLICK HERE[>>] (http://www.prowrestlingscoops.com/tracker/track.cgi?clark) ) So check your facts before you just go about posting random things that are true in your own little fantasy world, will ya?

[Zeeboe]

I was talking about Hogan's matches with HBK and Orton. HBK was a heel when he did his program with Hulk Hogan...that is how he lost to Hogan. Orton was also a heel when he wrestled Hogan...and that is how he lost to Hogan. Get it now brother?

Do you even know what kayfabe means? If Hogan was writing the book in kaybabe, it would have been just like that Hulk Hogan magazine that came out in spring of 2002 where everything was written in character.

Hulk Hogan did not write his book in character. Hell, the book is not even about the character "Hulk Hogan". It's about the man who played the part of the character "Hulk Hogan".

Get it now brother?

[DAMN iNATOR]

I was talking about Hogan's matches with HBK and Orton. HBK was a heel when he did his program with Hulk Hogan...that is how he lost to Hogan. Orton was also a heel when he wrestled Hogan...and that is how he lost to Hogan. Get it now brother?

No, the reason why Hogan won those matches, and follow me now, because here's where it might get tricky for you to understand...THE ONLY REASON Hogan won either of those matches is because he knew he could demand complete creative control in them from Vince McMahon and family, and Vince would give it to him because they had such a long work relationship together. So once that was in the bag for those matches, it was easy street for Hogan. He knew all he had to do was let Orton or Michaels carry him 99.9% of the way before all he had to do was play to the crowd with his “I’m so deaf and retarded I need to hold my hand up to my ears 37,895 times before I go ahead and hit the leg drop”, hit the damn leg drop and effectively piss off everyone in the crowd at him for winning with such a wimpish-looking move, which, tbh it is, and at his opponent for agreeing to lose to such a stupid maneuver, just because Hogan wouldn't have it any other way without crying to Vince McMahon if he lost that the other guy “cheated”. Get THAT, now “BROTHER”?

[FourFifty]

Where's the proof? See, you guys are the ones who are full of it. You say this random stuff that you wish was true and yet you have no proof for it.

If Hogan's book is totally legit, then read Ric Flair's book and read Eric Bichoff's book.

[Zeeboe]

DAMN iNATOR...I mean...uh...Farooq...:roll: ...I'm not gonna repeat myself...go back and read what I said about heels and how they are always suppose to lose in the end.

If Hogan's book is totally legit, then read Ric Flair's book and read Eric Bichoff's book.

I just finished Stone Cold's book yesterday and Bischoff's book is next on the list.

[DAMN iNATOR]

If Hogan's book is totally legit, then read Ric Flair's book and read Eric Bichoff's book.

My point exactly. Anybody can write a book for someone else as far as WWE goes, and put over the contents as much as they want as fact, but most of the time it’s kayfabe information for the most part, just based on the author’s point of view of how they claim things were different from what other wrestlers, websites, &c., &c., ad nauseam, have to say on a given event in wrestling.

[DAMN iNATOR]

DAMN iNATOR...I mean...uh...Farooq...:roll: ...I'm not gonna repeat myself...go back and read what I said about heels and how they are always suppose to lose in the end.

Oh, right. I forgot that heels are always supposed to lose no matter what. They should never win because it might help get them over as an even more important heel character, which no good heel character EVER wants:roll: . Excuse me for actually having brains, unlike yourself.

[FourFifty]

heels for the most part are pretty much jobbers...

You Stupid Bastard!
Here's a fun fact! Hulk Hogan was a heel! Pretty much a Jobber, right?
Ric Flair, one of the greatest champions of all time, used to be a heel AND was a champion as a heel. A Jobber Champion? No Wai!
At one point in time The Four Horsemen were heels, and they were all chamions. Of course they were all on the undercard because they were heels.
You know who The Undertaker beat when he was a heel? Hulk Hogan. Hogan jobbed to a jobber.




Yea, I'm just some internet fan. I've been a fan for over 20 years I've seen the best of them all come and go. I've seen the drama, the passion, the blood, the sweat, the tears, and I've seen enough to tell you that you have no fucking idea how the industry works.

[Theo Dious]

You also didn't mention HHH. Constantly wins as a heel. JBL took numerous victories as a heel. The idea that "heels lose" is extremely flawed. It isn't even a given that a heel always wins dirty anymore.

[Slow]

Well, as of the last year or two, all heels are now jobbers, hence no long term heel champions.

[Slow]

since the HHH and JBL title reigns, as the pidgit mentioned

[Theo Dious]

Yeah, that's been a current trend, but it's hardly a solid standard.

[.44 Magdalene]

Somebody needs to ban this motherfucker. He's just being a fucking troll.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Somebody needs to ban this motherfucker. He's just being a fucking troll.

Uh, gee, YA THINK MAYBE?!

[.44 Magdalene]

THEN WHYYYYY IS HE STIIIIIILL MOTHERFUCKIN' HEEEERE

[DAMN iNATOR]

THEN WHYYYYY IS HE STIIIIIILL MOTHERFUCKIN' HEEEERE

Cuz I’m not a mod and therefore I can’t hand out bans...:( Sorry, dude. Would if I could.

[Kane Knight]

Michaels turned heel pretty much for that one match. After that he was face 30 seconds later.

Hogan winning did nothing for wrestling. Michaels winning would have, though not as much as if he wasn't a legend already.

I'll go so far as to say this angle probably hurt more than it helped. Michaels had to turn heel, ha dto lose some momentum, just to play to the ego of a guy who didn't stick around. Did it devastate the wrestling world? No. Just saying it probably did more harm than good.

Part timers winning does little to nothing for the company in general. Foley, at least, tends to make his opponents look good. And even Flair and Taker, who I'm not fond of winning, are doing more as regular workers (Even if Taker's is less frequent than Flair's). Even then, they often kill heat.

[Zeeboe]

Oh, right. I forgot that heels are always supposed to lose no matter what. They should never win because it might help get them over as an even more important heel character, which no good heel character EVER wants:roll: . Excuse me for actually having brains, unlike yourself.

Yes, heels do win big matches but the babyface or another babyface who was friends with the other babyface always gets payback at the end.

And since Hogan was not going to work a long feud with HBK or Orton, it made sense for Hogan to win since they were only wrestling one time.

Maybe if you guys would actually read what I type you'd get it.

[M-A-G]

All I have is Hogan's word. Find me at least two sources from people in the business that say it was not Hogan's idea to turn heel and I'll change my opinion.

Read the book "Death of WCW".

Also keep in mind that Bret Hart was supposed to be the third nWo member but when that did not work out, Hogan jumped on the nWo ship.

WCW didn't begin negotiations with Hart until late 1996 way past the point of the nWo introduction. It was never going to be him.

The nWo was one of the greatest angles of all time and I believe Hulk Hogan is one of the main reasons that it worked out so well because no one would have ever thought Hogan would turn heel but he did and when he did, it brought in ratings and money.

I didn't dispute that. The heel turn was a great idea. The nWo was a great idea. The problem was it was WCW's ONE great idea that got old fast and stopped bringing in the ratings and money.

I know at first with just Hall and Nash it went really well but in due time, it would have died out and gotten boring. The nWo was missing something and that was a big name like Hulk Hogan.

Again, no dispute there. But again, it did die out because it got boring.

Rather anyone here likes it or not, Hulk Hogan is a huge name in wrestling and to have one of the greatest babyface's to turn heel was a very big deal and it helped get the nWo over.

I'm agreeing with you.

Now what has Hogan done in recent years? Entertain the fans. No, he has not helped move the business along but that's because he's retired. Any retired person just starts to relax and enjoy life and I think that is what Hogan does now in regards of wrestling. He still loves the business and the people still love him so he shows up every now and then in the wrestling world, does his thing and leaves. No one gets hurt or majorly affected by it.

He's entertained SOME fans. That's their perrogative. That's their call. As far as people not getting hurt, his presence prevents other talent from being showcased. His refusal to put people over puts a damper on the progress of other talent. You can't just keep going back to someone over an over again because guess what? That person isn't going to be around forever. It'd be one thing if he's on the roster regularly helping out future main eventers or being fed big fat heels who have no upside but being there and making him the center of attention does affect other people.

HBK and Orton are heels...heels for the most part are pretty much jobbers...and McMahon wants to send the people home happy and seeing heels win big matches isn't going to make the people happy.

They can't always lose though otherwise no one is going to buy them as a credible threat. HBK despite his age is still younger and more mobile and agile than Hogan so what sense is there in having him getting beaten up by a slower and aged retired guy who not in top condition. How is that believable? If you want to use the 'send the fans home happy' argument here I'm sure it'll fit considering it was the main event. But his match with Randy Orton was the third match on the card and he had an injured knee. What's so wrong about using the match to put over someone younger who has a chance to do what Hogan used to do? Maybe Orton is a heel now but does he have to stay that way?

Now it's true heels do win big matches but the babyface ALWAYS gets payback...since Hogan is not interested in a full-time WWE career, it's best for him to wrestle his one match and then move on.

But he doesn't 'move on'. He always comes back. Maybe not now considering his rocky relationship with WWE but in the past that was the excuse. Just one match. And one more. And just one more. And maybe just one more. And it's mainly just to get something done for him. And no, he doesn't deserve it just because of who he is. Yes, he does wrestle like once a year but that's the problem. It helps no one and having him on full-time would be ridiculous. So the solution? Keep him off entirely.

[Kane Knight]

Actually, the Hell getting his commupance wouldn't have to come from Hogan, and the heel rub from beating Hogan would make the eventual downfall all the sweeter, thus making it better all around.

If you typed things that didn't come off like an obssessed girl who just hit puberty, you might be able to pull the "if you read what I type..." As it is, we read it. We got it. It was stupid. We disregarded it.

[St. Jimmy]

Let this thread die already.

[M-A-G]

Anyone remember Zeeboe?

[Zeeboe]

The Death of WCW is on the list of books I plan to read. Will probably read it after I read Bischoff's book.

Anyone remember Zeeboe?

Remember him?.......I am him...

[Kane Knight]

That would be so surprising.

Well, except no-one cares. There's only two kinds of retards on TPWW these days. Your kind, generic retarded n00b, and the creepy stalker CC type.

[Zeeboe]

Yeah, and I don't care what you have to say either Kane Knight.

Anyway, as much as I am looking forward to reading RD's book, he was not around in WCW at the time so everything he says is still an opinion.

[Kane Knight]

I'm glad you don't care. You can return to your magical land of Oz where Hogan has never contradicted himself, and everything out of a wrestler's mouth is true.

[James Steele]

shut up you ignorant ass.

Gimmick Infringement

[M-A-G]

Yeah, and I don't care what you have to say either Kane Knight.

Anyway, as much as I am looking forward to reading RD's book, he was not around in WCW at the time so everything he says is still an opinion.

Odd considering there are no opinions in that book.

[M-A-G]

And extremely helpful references and sources are there as well. You know, since you want those so badly.

[Kane Knight]

But are those references and sources HOGAN? If it's not HOGAN, it's nothing, broither! HOGAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!

[Theo Dious]

Priest: A reading from the Holy Gospel according to Saint Hulk.
Congregation: Glory to you Lord Hogan.

[M-A-G]

And His Hulkness doth spoke upon His foes, "What shalt thou do whenest these Holy serpentine limbs runneth amok on thee?"

[Zeeboe]

Odd considering there are no opinions in that book.

Well, I've never read it so as of right now, I'm gonna have to take your word for it. I just know RD is not a Hogan fan...infact, I don't think he ever was a WCW fan...now I am NOT stating that as a fact or an opinion...it's been years since I've been to Wrestlecrap.com. I'm more of a fan of the old-school Wrestlecrap.com....anyway, it's been a long time and I THINK I recall reading that RD never liked WCW...I know he was never a Hogan fan....but anyway, that book will be read by me after Easy E's book.

And extremely helpful references and sources are there as well. You know, since you want those so badly.

I do. Thank you. I look forward to reading it.

But are those references and sources HOGAN? If it's not HOGAN, it's nothing, broither! HOGAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!

Where did I ever say that I only believe Hogan? All I said was give me sources that say otherwise about Hulk Hogan's idea to turn heel.

I think the reason why you all seem to think I am a blind Hogan mark is because all of you act the same way about wrestlers you are entertained by so you naturally assume everyone is like that when it comes to their favorite wrestler but that is not the case with me. Like I said, no human is perfect.

There's plenty of things Hogan did in his career that I thought were very egoistical and thought he should have done otherwise.

Examples:

1. Wrestlemania IV - Instead of having some tournament, Hogan should have just dropped the belt to Savage in the main event. And then Savage could return the favor to Hulk at Wrestlemania V.

2. Wrestlemania VII - The final match should have been between Savage and Flair and it should have ended with Savage with the title.

(....LOL...I bet all of you are gonna think I'm a Savage mark now huh? Trust me, I'm not.)

3. WrestleMania IX - Yes, I agree with the smarks on this one. Hulk Hogan was very selfish that day and took the spotlight away from Bret Hart and Yokozuna. He was wrong and should not have done that. In my opinion, Bret Hart should have won the match and then taken Hogan on at the King of the Ring and Hogan should have lost to Bret in a clean win. (Since Bret Hart did carry the torch after Hulk left and became a huge star in the WWF, Hulk should have passed the torch to him and it's a shame that match never happened. Even at age 10, I wanted to see those two wrestle and was disappointed when it did not happen.) Then Yokozuna should have won the King of the Ring and beat Bret at Summerslam and then Bret would get the belt back at Wrestlemania X.

4. Summerslam 2006 - I honestly thought Hulk would have done the job for Orton since Orton was the legend killer and it would make sense that Orton get the win. And I was surprised and even a little disappointed in Hulk for not jobbing.

5. Hulk Hogan's book - I read his book, then I read Stone Cold's book. All in a matter of a few weeks recently and I must say, Hulk's book is more entertaining and fun to read....but Steve Austin's book is more real in my opinion. It's kind of like the movies. You can either watch a movie that has some realism to it but is still very whacky and out of this world or a straight up realistic, "it could happen and has happened in this world" movie.

He also seemed like the only thing he was interested in was making money and it was all about money with him whereas Austin seemed to have a true passion for the business. I have no doubt Hogan does too but it seemed like it was about making money first, wrestling second. With Austin it was the only way around. He talked about making money too but not nearly as much as Hogan did and with Austin it was his passions first, money second.

While I don't believe everything Hulk wrote, I do believe he did write the book and that some of what he said was true and not all of it was false. Again, shades of gray.

Many of you guys seem to have a very black and white view point of the world.

[Theo Dious]

Again, shades of gray. Many of you guys seem to have a very black and white view point of the world.

The whole "shades of gray" argument is usually nothing but a cop-out used by people to bolster the credibility of an argument that has none. I'm sick of this whole "wisdom" that black-and-white viewpoints are somehow invalid.

Hogan is a greedy, selfish dickweed that has nothing left to offer the wrestling world except his continued absence from it. Call it black, call it white, that's my viewpoint, and fuck off if you don't like it.

[Zeeboe]

that's my viewpoint, and fuck off if you don't like it.

Can't I just do ya Momma instead? I'll leave the jerking off to you.

[Theo Dious]

Can't I just do ya Momma instead? I'll leave the jerking off to you.

I stand in awe of your amazing mental capacities.

[Kane Knight]

Where did I ever say that I only believe Hogan? All I said was give me sources that say otherwise about Hulk Hogan's idea to turn heel.

You've basically discounted everything anyone's said in rebuttal. Hence, I mocked you by taking it to the extreme. See, I'm not debating you, I made a coment joking with DT.

I think the reason why you all seem to think I am a blind Hogan mark is because all of you act the same way about wrestlers you are entertained by so you naturally assume everyone is like that when it comes to their favorite wrestler but that is not the case with me. Like I said, no human is perfect.

Fuck that. I like Scotty 3 Hotty. Anyone think I'm going to Alienoid him around? Naw. Never have.

The reason I think that you're a blind Hogan Mark is that you eschew reason and sense to fellate Hogan.

Many of you guys seem to have a very black and white view point of the world.

Yep. That's me.

I believe in black and white. Logic and non. Proof and non. You have provided proof only in the sense that Hogan claimed it. But my attention span and memory tell me Hogan's said the opposite on TV. This casts dispersions on his story. Logic also disctates that since he's been full of shit in the past, taking his word on the matter doesn't make any sense. It's unreasonable.

There may be a reasonable argument in defense of Hogan, but you have not demonstrated it. On the other hand, several people have demonstrated that there IS a reasonable, a well thought out rebuttal to your statements.

You've hidden behind arghuments about how great the NWO was, which I don't remember anyone contesting. And his ingluence in the past being justification for him hurting the business in the present. These are markish arguments. And pretty blind. And hence, you fall into the "unreasonable" colour scheme. Reason has trumped you. And I'm not saying myself, because I'd rather mock you than continue to argue with you over something you're so clearly oblivious to, but there have been many good arguments. And none of them, NONE of them...Were yours.

[Theo Dious]

Remember the fanboy wars a few weeks back? I think we've become embroiled in the "retard wars."

[Zeeboe]

You boys are demonstrating your immaturity and your lack of real life experience since you have no respect for other people's opinions, you think your opinions are facts and you think life is all black and white.

You fellas spend too much time on this message board and don't tell me I'm wrong. You guys have thousands and thousands of posts. That's pretty sad. :lol:

[FourFifty]

You boys are demonstrating your immaturity and your lack of real life experience

Ah yes, when wrong, just derail the subject.

So Venis, tell us about your real life experince. Tell us why we should respect your views. Tell us why we should give a damn about what you say. Tell us why just because you read a book that you are alpha, you are omega, you are the one who is, the one who was, and the one that has yet to come.

[Zeeboe]

Ah yes, when wrong, just derail the subject.

How did I do that? I stated my opinions, you guys stated yours. And clearly no one is going to change the others mind and perhaps you fellas like to waste your life and repeat the same stuff you've already said but I don't.

So Venis, tell us about your real life experince. Tell us why we should respect your views. Tell us why we should give a damn about what you say. Tell us why just because you read a book that you are alpha, you are omega, you are the one who is, the one who was, and the one that has yet to come.

I never said any of that stuff. Those are your words, not mine.

[FourFifty]

I just want to know why I should give a damn about what you say. It seems you've used Wikipedia and autobiographys as your only sources.
You wanted to talk about our "lack of real life experience" so I just want to know about your background and who the hell do you think you are bring that up.

[Zeeboe]

I just want to know why I should give a damn about what you say. It seems you've used Wikipedia and autobiographys as your only sources.
You wanted to talk about our "lack of real life experience" so I just want to know about your background and who the hell do you think you are bring that up.

I never used Wikipedia. I used books from people actually in the wrestling business as sources for my infomation unlike you guys who probably use "reports" from internet nerds who are not in the business and like to post their opinions as if they were facts.

In regards of my real life experience...hey, take a look at how many posts I have and how many posts you guys have. :lol:

Enough said.

[Goulet]

I never used Wikipedia. I used books from people actually in the wrestling business as sources for my infomation unlike you guys who probably use "reports" from internet nerds who are not in the business and like to post their opinions as if they were facts.

In regards of my real life experience...hey, take a look at how many posts I have and how many posts you guys have. :lol:

Enough said.
For having too much of a social life to hang out on a wrestling message board you sure seem to have posted a lot in this sorry excuse for a thread

[DAMN iNATOR]

http://sportsmedia.ign.com/sports/image/article/698/698867/john-cena-interview-20060328040837463-000.jpg
THE “ ∙ S ∙ T ∙ F ∙ U ∙ ” ∙ :
It means SHUT THE FUCK UP, “Val Venis”. :y:

[Theo Dious]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to DAMN iNATOR again.</p></blockquote>

:lol:

[DAMN iNATOR]

:lol:

LMAO, it's cool dude...

[Zeeboe]

For having too much of a social life to hang out on a wrestling message board you sure seem to have posted a lot in this sorry excuse for a thread

Oh, I don't mind talking wrestling with other fans but I like to keep the debates civil and I don't live on here like all of you and talk about random stuff.

http://sportsmedia.ign.com/sports/image/article/698/698867/john-cena-interview-20060328040837463-000.jpg
THE “ ∙ S ∙ T ∙ F ∙ U ∙ ” ∙ :
It means SHUT THE FUCK UP, “Val Venis”. :y:

No. :)
LMAO, it's cool dude...

:lol: Rep points...you "dudes" are really sad.

[Goulet]

I don't live on here like all of you and talk about random stuff. I certainly don't live on here... I've been here since 2004 and have less than 1000 posts... stop generalizing everybody asshole

:lol: Rep points...you "dudes" are really sad.
We're sad? You're the fucking loser who is hanging out on a wrestling message board arguing something stupid and trivial relentlessly and wasting time out of this fantastic social life you apparently have to troll said message board.

to summarize... you're a douche bag, go kill yourself

Thanks, and have a good day!

Sincerely,

Goulet

:wave:

[Zeeboe]

I certainly don't live on here... I've been here since 2004 and have less than 1000 posts... stop generalizing everybody asshole


We're sad? You're the fucking loser who is hanging out on a wrestling message board arguing something stupid and trivial relentlessly and wasting time out of this fantastic social life you apparently have to troll said message board.

to summarize... you're a douche bag, go kill yourself

Thanks, and have a good day!

Sincerely,

Goulet

:wave:

I'm no troll. I posted my opinion. Yeah, it's not too popular on this board but I don't care. And I defended myself when attacked unlike others and I don't give a damn if I become popular on this board and you guys know I'm not some computer nerd looking for online friends and an online social life like most people who come on here do so you can't easily beat me and all that just pisses you guys off huh? :lol:

Thank you! You have a nice day too!

[Goulet]

I'm no troll. I posted my opinion. Yeah, it's not too popular on this board but I don't care. And I defended myself when attacked unlike others and I don't give a damn if I become popular on this board and you guys know I'm not some computer nerd looking for online friends and an online social life like most people who come on here do so you can't easily beat me and all that just pisses you guys off huh? :lol:

Thank you! You have a nice day too!

You are too a fucking troll, you're being an asshole to receive this reaction, You don't give a damn if you become popular on this board, I never said you did, I actually think it's quite the opposite, you want people to hate you cause you are a loser who has nothing better to do than troll an internet message board. We can't easily beat you? How exactly do you beat someone at the internet, are we playing some sort of game here? Are you proud of winning at the internet? Does it make you feel better about your mental limitations?

Congrats at winning at the internet Val Venis :y:

[Zeeboe]

You are too a fucking troll, you're being an asshole to receive this reaction, You don't give a damn if you become popular on this board, I never said you did, I actually think it's quite the opposite, you want people to hate you cause you are a loser who has nothing better to do than troll an internet message board. We can't easily beat you? How exactly do you beat someone at the internet, are we playing some sort of game here? Are you proud of winning at the internet? Does it make you feel better about your mental limitations?

Congrats at winning at the internet Val Venis :y:

You may think I'm being an asshole but I don't think I am. And no, I am not posting these opinions to get heat. These are my honest opinions. I think you guys are a bunch of cyber bullies who love to gang up on others and try to run them off the board to make yourselves feel better because you're losers and victims to bullies in real life or were victims to bullies in your youth.

I never made this whole thing personal. That would be you guys. I posted my opinions on Hogan...an opinion that is shared by many people all over the world and that opinion being is that he is an icon in the wrestling business and you guys made personal attacks on me.

I came here to talk wrestling and believe me, there are many other places that I can do that at. The only reason why I'm still here is because I think someone needs to stand up to you guys and I'll never give you fellas the satisfaction of thinking you ran me off. I'll leave when I'm ready and no sooner.

You guys couldn't run me off here in 2002 and you can't run me off here now. When I'm not on this board for a long time, it's because I made that was my choice. I'm like my hero Hulk Hogan. I show up every now and then and I take names and kick ass when I do...BROTHER!

[thedamndest]

Why is your avatar of Goldust?

[DAMN iNATOR]

You may think I'm being an asshole but I don't think I am. And no, I am not posting these opinions to get heat. These are my honest opinions. I think you guys are a bunch of cyber bullies who love to gang up on others and try to run them off the board to make yourselves feel better because you're losers and victims to bullies in real life or were victims to bullies in your youth.

I never made this whole thing personal. That would be you guys. I posted my opinions on Hogan...an opinion that is shared by many people all over the world and that opinion being is that he is an icon in the wrestling business and you guys made personal attacks on me.

I came here to talk wrestling and believe me, there are many other places that I can do that at. The only reason why I'm still here is because I think someone needs to stand up to you guys and I'll never give you fellas the satisfaction of thinking you ran me off. I'll leave when I'm ready and no sooner.

You guys couldn't run me off here in 2002 and you can't run me off here now. When I'm not on this board for a long time, it's because I made the choice to leave. I'm like my hero Hulk Hogan. I show up every now and then and I take names and kick ass when I do...BROTHER!

Die. Just fucking die.

[Theo Dious]

Why is your avatar of Goldust?
*insert gay joke here*

[DAMN iNATOR]

Why is your avatar of Goldust?

Who knows, maybe his next porno is being made by .24” Dick Productions :shifty:

[Theo Dious]

You are too a fucking troll, you're being an asshole to receive this reaction

Which can be noticed by the simplest evaluation of how his attitude has shifted during this thread, as he decides what will and won't get a reaction. God it must be depressing to have such a fragile ego that you have to convince yourself that you're cooler than a bunch of guys on a message board.

You think he goes on those expectant mother sites and advocates for abortions?

[FourFifty]

http://sportsmedia.ign.com/sports/image/article/698/698867/john-cena-interview-20060328040837463-000.jpg
THE “ ∙ S ∙ T ∙ F ∙ U ∙ ” ∙ :
It means SHUT THE FUCK UP, “Val Venis”. :y:


It is my honor to introduce to you the next big thing on tpww.net!

[DAMN iNATOR]

:lol: Rep points...you "dudes" are really sad.

Yeah, uh-huh. Not half as sad as you are. To me and most of the members of this site rep points don't mean jack shit. The real point of the Wrestling Forum is to have CIVILIZED discussions and debates, something which you are apparently incapable of. Maybe if you'd get more sources before you just get 1 or 2 and believe every sentence there, you'd get a little more respect, but no, you have to troll around and bug us with your pro-Hogan agenda. Why don't you just go and make friends with Hogan and the President, and you can form your own league of super friends or something, but you know what? You either need to stop being so biased in your opinions or leave, it's your choice.

[Goulet]

I never made this whole thing personal. That would be you guys. I posted my opinions on Hogan...an opinion that is shared by many people all over the world and that opinion being is that he is an icon in the wrestling business and you guys made personal attacks on me.

See here's the thing moron. Hulk Hogan is an icon in the wrestling business, there is no denying that! I agree with you! I used to love Hulk Hogan... when I was 7, and I got caught up in the whole thing when he came back in '02 as well. (I was at WMX8) but he has no fucking business wrestling anymore. And that opinion is shared by many people all over the world! My issue with you is that you are trying to get a reaction out of people, that's your whole fucking purpose of being here, you aren't here to talk wrestling, you're here to be a shit disturber.

Just fuck off already asshole

[Kane Knight]

You boys are demonstrating your immaturity and your lack of real life experience since you have no respect for other people's opinions, you think your opinions are facts and you think life is all black and white.

You fellas spend too much time on this message board and don't tell me I'm wrong. You guys have thousands and thousands of posts. That's pretty sad. :lol:

See, you're hiding behind that because you know your argument is shit.

Also, demanding respect for all opinions, no matter how irrational, is stupid in and of itself. Your opinions are not worthy of respect, because they are founded in sheer idiocy.

[Zeeboe]

Why is your avatar of Goldust?

Cause I like doing off the wall things like that.

*insert gay joke here*

That's another reason why you guys are losers. You're a bunch of homophobic assholes. I'm not gay but I don't think there's a thing wrong with being homosexual. Grow up kid.

I have decided...I AM better then all of you. Here's why:

1. I don't make personal attacks on people just because their opinions differs from mine and I keep the debates civil until someone says something rude to me.

2. I'm not some anti-gay, Fred Phelps wanna-be jack-ass.

3. I'm a mature adult with the mind of a mature, well raised 24-year old man unlike all of you who have the minds of teenage boys or ARE teenage boys.

4. I don't give a damn about rep points or if I have a high post count or not and don't think having a high post count on an internet message board is something worth bragging about, I don't live on this board and I have actual friends who I actually talk to.

5. I don't live on boards like these. I visit them yes and I say what I gotta say and then I leave and come back when I feel like it but I will never be a regular like all of you or be worried about my rep points or be concerned with what my post count is. I have higher goals in life then that.

I don't even know why I'm debating with you fellas. Many of you guys have thousands and thousands of posts on here and quite a lot of "online" friends....I win by default. :cool: You're all a waste of space. This message board is the only thing your worthless asses will ever have. :lol: And no matter what your responses to me will be....just remember one thing boys....right now as you read these words on your screen...you're allll alone. :lol:

Finally, we can debate various subjects on here but no matter what is said, in the end I will always be better then all of you...because on Friday night, I'll be out having fun whereas many of you are going to be sitting alone, watching Smackdown and talking to other losers on this message board. :lol: Nuff' said.

[FourFifty]

As much as I enjoy watching people try to vindicate being the "bigger man" and laughing at the majorty there's just one thing I gotta say...

So if you're so much better than us why are you sinking down to our level? Does it make you feel good about yourself? Does it get you high? Does it make you feel better than you really are? Do you get a kick out of seeing the commoners scurry about?
Seriously, if you believe you're so much better than everyone else here, then leave. If we're all teenagers, and you're on the same message board, that makes you a pedophile. PEDOPHILE!!!!

[Zeeboe]

So if you're so much better than us why are you sinking down to our level?

If someone insults me, I defend myself. And in debates, everyone has a "style" of debating and when dealing with your kind, I gotta do it in your language....so you understand me. If I try to be mature and civil with you, you're not going to understand because you're young, stupid and immature....and when your kind doesn't understand something, they mock it and you're just gonna laugh and make fun of me and make cheesy gay jokes cause that's what kiddies do.

If we're all teenagers, and you're on the same message board, that makes you a pedophile. PEDOPHILE!!!!


.....I work with teenagers too. :naughty:

[Goulet]

Can someone ban this motherfucker?

[Zeeboe]

Can someone ban this motherfucker?

Based on what grounds? Defending myself? Haha. Yeah, ban me. Just further proves that you guys are cowards. Maybe you fellas won't talk about it but you know deep down in those things you think are your brains that I got the better off all of you and that I was right and that you used a cowardly method to get rid of me.

[Kane Knight]

Cause I like doing off the wall things like that.



That's another reason why you guys are losers. You're a bunch of homophobic assholes. I'm not gay but I don't think there's a thing wrong with being homosexual. Grow up kid.

I have decided...I AM better then all of you. Here's why:

1. I don't make personal attacks on people just because their opinions differs from mine and I keep the debates civil until someone says something rude to me.

2. I'm not some anti-gay, Fred Phelps wanna-be jack-ass.

3. I'm a mature adult with the mind of a mature, well raised 24-year old man unlike all of you who have the minds of teenage boys or ARE teenage boys.

4. I don't give a damn about rep points or if I have a high post count or not and don't think having a high post count on an internet message board is something worth bragging about, I don't live on this board and I have actual friends who I actually talk to.

5. I don't live on boards like these. I visit them yes and I say what I gotta say and then I leave and come back when I feel like it but I will never be a regular like all of you or be worried about my rep points or be concerned with what my post count is. I have higher goals in life then that.

I don't even know why I'm debating with you fellas. Many of you guys have thousands and thousands of posts on here and quite a lot of "online" friends....I win by default. :cool: You're all a waste of space. This message board is the only thing your worthless asses will ever have. :lol: And no matter what your responses to me will be....just remember one thing boys....right now as you read these words on your screen...you're allll alone. :lol:

Finally, we can debate various subjects on here but no matter what is said, in the end I will always be better then all of you...because on Friday night, I'll be out having fun whereas many of you are going to be sitting alone, watching Smackdown and talking to other losers on this message board. :lol: Nuff' said.

Notice how he's all "I don

t care about post counts," but it's one of the first things he uses to attack people? :rofl: What a stupid fuck.

[Goulet]

Based on what grounds? Defending myself? Haha. Yeah, ban me. Just further proves that you guys are cowards. Maybe you fellas won't talk about it but you know deep down in those things you think are your brains that I got the better off all of you and that I was right and that you used a cowardly method to get rid of me.

Fuck you make my head hurt... I want you banned cause you're an asshole... I never even argued with you Hogan points, I couldn't care less what you think about Hulk Hogan... I don't care if it's the "cowardly" way, I just want you to leave. If that means you got the better of me and makes you feel like you've "won" then take it, good for you! You won the internet!

And you're calling us sad :roll:

[Kane Knight]

You are sad, Goulety.

[Corkscrewed]

2. I'm not some anti-gay, Fred Phelps wanna-be jack-ass.
I think you're going overboard with this PC stuff. Contrary to popular media, "gay" can be used in a joking manner, parodying its own definition. So just because I say something is "gay" doesn't mean I despise people who engage in homosexual sex. It's not too different from using a word like "fuck" for emphatic or shock value to add humor.

So please stop playing the gay card, because that just makes you look like the overzealous activists who use the race card to create a controversy and try to stir up sympathy simply because it's the easiest way to go about things.

[Kane Knight]

Also, keep in mind there are fags on here. Real, living members of the GBLT "community."

Oddly enough, we're not speaking up about some random comment. Possibly because we believe Venis is a homo, or possibly becausee we don't give a shit.

Besides, wrestling is a gay passtime. Come on, half the board creams themselves when a man in tights and mascara comes out and sticks is tongue out.

[Theo Dious]

I think you're going overboard with this PC stuff. Contrary to popular media, "gay" can be used in a joking manner, parodying its own definition. So just because I say something is "gay" doesn't mean I despise people who engage in homosexual sex. It's not too different from using a word like "fuck" for emphatic or shock value to add humor.

As a matter of fact, replying to the extremely uncharged line *insert gay joke here* in such a defensive and appalled manner is a seriously inappropriate overreaction. Goldust inspires gay jokes, as any intelligent person can see. And where's this "defending myself" crap coming from, this whole thread was an attempt at pissing people off in the first place, nothing but an invitation to lash out. And he says he's not like Fred Phelps.

Also, keep in mind there are fags on here. Real, living members of the GBLT "community."

Oddly enough, we're not speaking up about some random comment. Possibly because we believe Venis is a homo, or possibly becausee we don't give a shit.

Also, I'm still pretty sure he screws Hulk Hogan dolls, and not actual men.

Besides, wrestling is a gay passtime. Come on, half the board creams themselves when a man in tights and mascara comes out and sticks is tongue out.

Hence my belief that any given wrestling fan is either entirely gay, or entirely comfortable in his sexuality. Talk about black and white.

[FourFifty]

Besides, wrestling is a gay passtime. Come on, half the board creams themselves when a man in tights and mascara comes out and sticks is tongue out.

..........Who?

[Kane Knight]

I thought the Tongue Part would make it clear I was talking about Taker. :o

[Theo Dious]

That isn't mascara, it's eyeliner.
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I'm not doing myself any favors, am I.

[Kane Knight]

No, when you're getting more anal about makeup than a tranny, it's time to come out of the closet. ;)

[FourFifty]

......I didn't see this board as a group of Undertaker marks. Part of me thought KK was talking about someone in TNA, or some random over rated indy guy.

[Kane Knight]

Well, there is Chris Daniels, but he doesn't stick his tongue out.

[FourFifty]

What about Rico? Is he even wrestling still?

[Kane Knight]

They wouldn't like him. You can't be openly gay in wrestling. It's like Batman, or any other gay trend. As long as it's "subtle," it's gay culturally phenomenal. If it's overt, they'll turn on you like smarks on Jericho when he comes back and endorses John Cena as the best wrestler ever.

[Theo Dious]

No, when you're getting more anal about makeup than a tranny, it's time to come out of the closet. ;)

Hey, I have no interest in that. Except for occasionally wearing the underwear. Which, as we discussed, is strictly a comfort thing.

[Kane Knight]

Dude, you paint your toenails...

...Which reminds me...can't ffind my nail polish. :foc:

[Theo Dious]

Yeah, well it's not like I wear open-toed shoes or anything. I'm not flaunting it. :shifty: