Serious Football Discussion

[Stickman]

Not soccer, football.

I'm curious as to how many Americans on these boards have actually watched any CFL games? I enjoy both games so I'm not turning this into a Pro Canadian anti American discussion. But I find myself more entertained by the CFL. Not always but more often than not. I find it just more wide open. The quarterbacks actually pass the ball on first down and are allowed to be creative.

Obviously the best players in the world play in the NFL because that's where the money is, but there are NFL players who could not make a CFL team. Ricky Williams played for Toronto last year and was medicore at best.

So honestly, what's your opinions on comparing the leagues?

[Kris P Lettus]

If Ricky Williams is you basis for comparison, your entire arguement is shit..

[Kris P Lettus]

I watch CFL ocationally.. It is no where NEAR NFL level though.. It's more like Arena League or NFL Europe..

[Stickman]

Ricky Williams was an example. I know other players have tried and failed miserably.

I just like the run and gun of the CFL more than the methodical, run up the gut over and over nature of the NFL. Passing and punt returning is exciting. With that said, I can't stand Arena football.

[Kris P Lettus]

If you like the flashy "air it out" style, how can you not like the AFL??

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I don't have access to any CFL games so my knowledge and experience is limited. The last time I saw anything CFL related was a few years ago when some cornerback tried to copy the Terrell Owens sharpie thing after he thought he got an interception but then the refs said he didn't intercept it so he just looked like a huge, unoriginal douche.

[Stickman]

If you like the flashy "air it out" style, how can you not like the AFL??

it's not football. Just like indoor soccer is not soccer. AFL is just too much offence. Usually the team with the ball last wins.

At least in the CFL there is a running game.

[VonErichLives]

but there are NFL players who could not make a CFL team. Ricky Williams played for Toronto last year and was medicore at best.

So honestly, what's your opinions on comparing the leagues?

There may be a few NFL players that couldn't make the CFL but not many, and that has more to do with the NFL having bigger rosters and more teams.

As for Williams, you're kidding right? He wasn't at his best and still put up great numbers.

109 att
526yds
4.8avg
plus some decent catching stats and keep in mind he broke his arm week #5, I honestly don't remember if he came b ack after the injury.

plain and simple the CFL can't hold the NFL jock strap.

QB do pass on 1st down, it's not just a "run it down their throat" league, if you say that you clearly don't watch the NFL.

Yeah, they pass more in the CFL, isn't the field also much wider? think that has something to do with it?

Look at Doug Flutie, great CFL QB, average NFL QB (and don't anyone point to 1yr in buffalo to tell me how great he was).

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I'll watch the CFL but to say there is guys in the NFL who wouldn't make the CFL is laughable.

[Stickman]

The NFL quarterbacks who just sit in the pocket would get eaten alive in the CFL. Payton Manning is the greatest quarterback alive right now, he'd struggle because he can't scramble. I would want hiim on my team any day.

They are two different games but what I'm saying is the CFL is a bit more enjoyable to me because it is more wide open. I do like the NFL though.

[ct2k]

As my knowledge of American Football is dire I can't comment too much but what I will say is that what football (soccer) has taught me is that a player can be amazing in one league and mediocre at best in another.

Different styles of play affect different players in all kinds of ways, some can adapt easily (not necessarily the 'best' players, either) and others just never adjust.

[VonErichLives]

The NFL quarterbacks who just sit in the pocket would get eaten alive in the CFL. Payton Manning is the greatest quarterback alive right now, he'd struggle because he can't scramble.

Ever hear of Warren Moon?

If Manning went to the CFL he would destroy every record they have.

[BCWWF]

It's funny because you can totally tell who in this thread has never watched a CFL game.

[VonErichLives]

It's funny because you can totally tell who in this thread has never watched a CFL game.

I've watched a few admittingly not in awhile so maybe the rules have completely changed.

But, if you find fault in some of my arguments please point out where... It may be simply that Sticky is picking poor argument points to explain what he's getting at.

Manning, NFL players making the CFL roster, Ricky Williams production.... none of those help his case at all.

On a side note, Doug Flutie is now the first american to go to the CFL hall of fame (or at least thats what they just said on the radio, so if there are other american born CFL hall of famers, I blame the radio for the info!)

[Stickman]

Ever hear of Warren Moon?

If Manning went to the CFL he would destroy every record they have.

No, he wouldn't. Not much of a reason but no, he wouldn't.

[VonErichLives]

No, he wouldn't. Not much of a reason but no, he wouldn't.

Well, the sums up ever other thing you've brought up.

Manning has a great arm, great reads and while he's not a "roll out mobile" QB like Flutie or Vick type, he has decent foot work (gawd, I sound like RP).

Warren Moon tourched the CFL, Manning would do the same.

[Stickman]

Like I said, they are two completely different games, and I really dont' think Manning would shatter all records. He's not mobile enough. He'd definatly be a good QB up there but not the best of all time. Moon tourched the CFL for the few years he was there, he was only there because the NFL is racist. That's a moot point though.

I don't think NFL followers give the CFL the credit it deserves. Yes the best players play in the NFL. But many get their start in the CFL.

My point of interest in this topic is to get seirous thoughts on the CFL as a game not necessarily the players involved. Hey, there's things about the CFL that suck, but as I said, I'm entertained more often by it than the NFL. I do enjoy the NFL as well. Do any NFL fans look at a rule or something in the CFL and think, hmm, that'd be great here? Personally, I'd like the NFL to adopt 1 foot in bounds on a catch as opposed to two. That's just me.

[Kris P Lettus]

I don't think NFL followers give the CFL the credit it deserves.

I don't think you are giving the NFL the credit it deserves..

Also, the one foot in bounds catch is an NCAA rule..

[Stickman]

I'm giving the NFL all the respect possible. But there's a few aspects of it I prefer the CFL for.

[VonErichLives]

Like I said, they are two completely different games, and I really dont' think Manning would shatter all records. He's not mobile enough. He'd definatly be a good QB up there but not the best of all time. Moon tourched the CFL for the few years he was there

Yes, he did... so, you're saying Moon is so much more mobile then Manning that he put up those #'s but Manning wouldn't?


I don't think NFL followers give the CFL the credit it deserves. Yes the best players play in the NFL. But many get their start in the CFL.


Many? ok, the nfl roster is (i think) 53 (only 45 dress) so 53 x 32 teams = 1,696 players. Now, you're saying "Many" got their start in the CFL. Ok, name me 17 players in the NFL who got their start in the CFL, that's a little over 1%, now you said many which would be 30%, 40%, 50%? But I think you'll have enough trouble with 1%.

Personally, I'd like the NFL to adopt 1 foot in bounds on a catch as opposed to two.

See Krispy, 1 foot is a college rule, and no I don't want it in the NFL, NFL level of play should be better then college. different roster limits, different ball, more difficult rules (ie: 1 foot).

Matter of fact, I don't understand why with such a wide field the CFL has a 1 foot and not a 2 foot rule.

As I've said, I've watched some CFL, not in a long time, but I don't find it much better then Arena and would take a good college game any day of the week.

Now, anyone with 1/2 a brain can agree the worst NFL team would kill any College team... So, my question to people who currently watch CFL (not myself), how would the top college team do against the worst CFL team?

[Kris P Lettus]

As sad as it makes me to say, VEL is right..

:wavesad:

[Stickman]

So, my question to people who currently watch CFL (not myself), how would the top college team do against the worst CFL team?

Under what rules?

Again, two very different games.

[Kris P Lettus]

HOW ARE THEY DIFFERENT

[Kris P Lettus]

AFL and NFL are "different" but let me fantasy draft an entire AFL team from current NFL players and I bet my team would destroy ANY AFL team..

Same could be said for CFL..

I don't care if they are "different" or not..

[SammyG]

AFL>>>>>>>>>>>>>CFL

[Stickman]

During the NHL lockout many many players went and played in Europe under different rules and larger ice surfaces, they didn't exactly break all the records or anything. That's not to say the best NHL team woudln't beat the best European team, but it would be a lot more competitive than people would expect.

[Kris P Lettus]

This is a stupid arguement anyway because it woiuld never happen..

Also it's subjective which is better..

Again, besides having a bigger field, what are these differences??

[Stickman]

3 downs,
bigger ball (big whoop)
1 more player on the field
5 yard "halo" around a punt returner,
1 yard zone between opposing linemen.
1 point for kicking through the endzone called the rouge (terrible rule but you see very weird things near the end of the game because of it, ie: a punter receiving a punt in the endzone, or a pass to a receiver who tries to kick it.)
Shorter timecount clock.
Anybody behind the kicker can field the ball (think it's the same in both leagues)
25 yard endzone.
less players on the roster
Championship Games played with weather.

That's all off the top of my head.

[BCWWF]

Actually there is a Champions League type thing starting in 2008 where the Stanley Cup champion plays the European Champion, so it could happen.

I don't think you guys even know what you are arguing though, to be honest. Stickman is saying that the CFL is more fun to watch because it is a more open game. The argument seems to be stemming from the claim that an NFL player wouldn't automatically succeed in CFL. This is a broad claim, and probably totally dependant on the position, but it isn't blasphemy. Maybe if you said "not every QB or RB", but I don't see how an NFL O-lineman would fail in the CFL. I dunno, it just seems like you guys aren't even on the same page.

[Stickman]

This is a stupid arguement anyway because it woiuld never happen..


It has happened. An NFL vs CFL game happened. One half CFL rules, one half NFL...yes the NFL team won via dominating the NFL ruled half.

[Kris P Lettus]

Championship Games played with weather.



What does this mean??

I mean, it rained balls during the last Super Bowl..

[Stickman]

It was a sly sarstic comment. Usually the Superbowl is played indoors or in a warm weathered location. Grey Cup gets played in all types of weather.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Personally, I don't think the rule differences between the CFL and the NFL are that significant. Thus, I think players in the NFL could adapt to the style difference up north and be able to perform well.

[BCWWF]

It was a sly sarstic comment. Usually the Superbowl is played indoors or in a warm weathered location. Grey Cup gets played in all types of weather.

Well where in Canada do you expect tropical weather to begin with?

[IC Champion]

I live in Canada and dont even watch the Grey Cup. However I do watch the NFL religiously on Sundays and Mondays aswell as sometimes on Thursdays.

But this 3 down crap is garbage and I personally find it boring.

On a side Note the Buffalo Bills may be moving to Toronto.

[Stickman]

Well where in Canada do you expect tropical weather to begin with?

Vancouver...even though Vancouver has a Dome. Terrible, build a bloody outdoor stadium.

[Stickman]

I live in Canada and dont even watch the Grey Cup. However I do watch the NFL religiously on Sundays and Mondays aswell as sometimes on Thursdays.

But this 3 down crap is garbage and I personally find it boring.

On a side Note the Buffalo Bills may be moving to Toronto.

It can be boring if you have two bad teams, or two bad quarterbacks.
I find 3 run plays then punt with no return boring. Also 3 time outs per half can make is slow down.

[Stickman]

Opps, I also don't htink Buffalo will move to Toronto. I think it'll be years and years before they go to Toronto. They will go to Los Angeles first.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Willis McGahee suggested they should move to Toronto, I don't think there is any actual real plans to move the Bills anywhere

[VonErichLives]

I find 3 run plays then punt with no return boring.

have you ever watched an NFL game?

[Stickman]

have you ever watched a CFL game?

[IC Champion]

I've watched a few CFL games, Ive seen Grey Cups, and Im sorry its like watchin the D-Leauge in the NBA or somethin. Sure every now and then Im sure there are good games and some great perfromances, but for the most part 90 percent of the time the game is garbage, I'm sorry CFL should fold and become 2 NFL teams.

[Stickman]

Yeah, they're just going to fold a 100 year old league.

[IC Champion]

It could work, Maybe only four or five teams and have a Candian or Northern Division.

[VonErichLives]

have you ever watched a CFL game?

as I've said before "yes" and if you think 3 runs plays and a punt is how the NFL is then you clearly have never watched an NFL game.

[IC Champion]

as I've said before "yes" and if you think 3 runs plays and a punt is how the NFL is then you clearly have never watched an NFL game.
He may have been watch Atlanta play

[Stickman]

run, run, pass, punt. Better?

[MTH15]

LOL, which teams played? And I live in DC when and what channel can I watch the CFL. And please keep Buffalo in Buffalo. Keep the NFL...AMERICAN.