My problem with Austin

[BigDaddyCool]

While I'm not saying Austin never held anyone down...I can't think of one person he really put over. Some might argue the Rock, but Rock and Austin built each other. Other would say HHH, but HHH and Austin really didn't fued or get into it until after HHH was already over.

Discuss.

[Jeritron]

He initially made HHH a main event player in late 99, Foley finished up the job. He also helped him out in early 2001 with their fued.

He also helped Foley break into the main event a lot in 1998. He was also key to getting The Rock over initially in 97, and by association in 99.

I think he gave Benoit and Jericho a rub in 2001, and if not for the Invasion I think that year or two would have seen Austin putting them and others over much bigger. Unfortunately the WCW and all it's baggage came in and led to those plans being shelved, and Austin's eventual departure. His fued with Angle was great for him.

Austin had a very short run for a variety of reasons. He never really had time since he was being booked to win all the time, and rightfully so.

[Stickman]

interesting

[Theo Dious]

He put Foley over pretty well... he put Angle over during the Invasion (I know he eventually got the title back in a crap match that made Angle look like a puss, but I'm pretty sure they were aiming for Rock vs Austin as champions going to Survivor Series that year.) He put over HHH when he was at a make-or-break period (and would have done more, but for his neck.)

The problem with Austin is that you can't really find guys that he put over single-handedly. He put over Foley, but Taker and Rock did it more; he put over Angle, but... Rock and Taker did it more, he put over HHH, but Rock and Foley did it WAY more. Austin had both the blessing and the curse of working in at time when he was surrounded by contemporaries that were already over: Rock, Taker, HHH, Foley, just to name the topmost of the time. It was good because he didn't have to carry them, but kind of bad because it doesn't leave him with a legacy.

Hey, he put over Rikishi... well, sort of... I guess... well he sold getting hit by a car... pretty... well... ah fuck, I got nothing.

[Theo Dious]

You know though, he REALLY put over Jericho and Benoit in 2001; even though he didn't drop the belt to either of them, that was really the time where Chris and Chris were really cemented as main event candidates. Say what you want about them, but without that summer of their careers, its entirely reasonable to think that neither of them would have gone on to what they did.

[St. Jimmy]

He also put Jericho over same night the Rock did.

[Kane Knight]

My only problem is Steve's name. Stone Cold Steve Austin sounds like a porn name. :shifty:

[Theo Dious]

Yeah but Rock wasn't around when the whole Austin/Jericho/Benoit thing was going on. Would Jericho even have been CONSIDERED for the Undisputed Title without the test reactions WWE got from that feud?

[Theo Dious]

My only problem is Steve's name. Stone Cold Steve Austin sounds like a porn name. :shifty:

I can't rep you right now, but say the word and I shall drop trou.

[DAMN iNATOR]

I loved the epic matches that Rock and Austin put on, however at WM XIX, their match looked so obviously carried by Rock, that I'm not even sure the crowd or anyone watching had that much interest in those 2 in a singles match at that point...Did love the whole bit where Rock put on Austin's vest or whatever, that was hilarious...don't really have a lot of analytical thought regarding Austin, just some of the more notable feuds he had did seem pretty good.

[Jeritron]

You know though, he REALLY put over Jericho and Benoit in 2001; even though he didn't drop the belt to either of them, that was really the time where Chris and Chris were really cemented as main event candidates. Say what you want about them, but without that summer of their careers, its entirely reasonable to think that neither of them would have gone on to what they did.


I think heel Austin would have been slated to do more of this. He was supposed to go onto a fued with Jericho, and likely would have put him and other young incomers over more. The invasion and wcw purchase popped up. After that, he got buried in favor of Hogan and Rock and eventual hit the road.

Pretty much, Austin was doing some stuff to give others rubs while he was at top, but for the most part he was being booked as the top guy because it was still his inital run. By the time it began to look like he was gonna start putting more guys over and pass the torch, he had it ripped from him and the whole thing ended abruptly due to outside factors. Austin never really winded down or was able to pave the road before him. He did make a lot of contributions to a lot of careers, big time. But he never had time to start that 2 or 3 year period of putting over big names singlehandedly. He never really left or got the send off, he was kinda just thrown from the train.

[BigDaddyCool]

I think heel Austin would have been slated to do more of this. He was supposed to go onto a fued with Jericho, and likely would have put him and other young incomers over more. The invasion and wcw purchase popped up. After that, he got buried in favor of Hogan and Rock and eventual hit the road.

Pretty much, Austin was doing some stuff to give others rubs while he was at top, but for the most part he was being booked as the top guy because it was still his inital run. By the time it began to look like he was gonna start putting more guys over and pass the torch, he had it ripped from him and the whole thing ended abruptly due to outside factors. Austin never really winded down or was able to pave the road before him. He did make a lot of contributions to a lot of careers, big time. But he never had time to start that 2 or 3 year period of putting over big names singlehandedly. He never really left or got the send off, he was kinda just thrown from the train.

Yeah, I guess that is how I feel about it. I'm not saying he held people down at all, well besides Mero and Double J.

[NeanderCarl]

Yeah, I guess that is how I feel about it. I'm not saying he held people down at all, well besides Mero and Double J.

Surely to be "held down", you need to be rising to the top to begin with. Austin could have jobbed to Mero and Jarrett every week for a year and they still would never have been genuine main eventers or box office attractions.

[NeanderCarl]

I reckon, the way he's been talking, Austin will wrestle Kennedy one day, and put him over.

[Stickman]

For most of the time he was here, he was feuding with McMahon. When that died down, he was just kinda there. STill the big draw, big name, but could go in the ring like he used to but him losing wouldnt' be a good thing either. It's not like he's been around for way way too long not putting people over, but during the time he was around, I thought the upper mid card was pretty solid.

[AdrianM]

My only problem is Steve's name. Stone Cold Steve Austin sounds like a porn name. :shifty:

so does the rock

[Theo Dious]

Surely to be "held down", you need to be rising to the top to begin with. Austin could have jobbed to Mero and Jarrett every week for a year and they still would never have been genuine main eventers or box office attractions.

Amen. Not wasting time putting Jarrett and Mero over wasn't playing politics, it was a wise move. I still can't believe that Mero was EVER considered as a top guy.

[lort]

But he won Boxing's Golden Gloves 5 years in a row!

Or whatever he used to say on that advert.

[Kane Knight]

so does the rockAs did his father, but this isn't about them.

[Theo Dious]

Rocky Johnson. And you thought Val Venis was the first porn star gimmick.

[tucsonspeed6]

One could suggest that Austin put everyone over because without him, the WWE wouldn't have been anything like it was back in the Attitude Era

[Dave Youell]

My biggest problem with him was that he flat out refused to put over one of the most gifted guys the roster has.



















Coach!

[Theo Dious]

It's disgusting that Coach has never been given a main event spot. He should be the face of ECW, god dammit. :mad:

[hb2k]

Why the hell should he have put people over, he was the biggest money maker in the history of the business, there was no sense in using him to get others over, and when the time was actually right, it was too late because his neck stopped him from getting in the ring.

[Theo Dious]

And when it WAS time for him to put people over... they wanted him to put LESNAR over on FREE TV with NO BUILDUP. :nono:

[hb2k]

And with Lesnar having been in the company only 4 months and struggling to catch on at that point.

But yeh, seriously, if anyone thinks Austin should have been used to put other people over, you're an idiot.

[PepperCarrotMan]

The problem with Austin is that he got stale a long time ago. Last time I enjoyed Austin was during his invasion heel run.

[NeanderCarl]

But yeh, seriously, if anyone thinks Austin should have been used to put other people over, you're an idiot.

Maybe if they HAD used Austin to get people "over", the WWE would have some genuine stars right now.

You build a guy up by putting him over senior members of the roster. It's worked for a century. Why should Austin have been any different? Especially with the knowledge from 1997 onwards that his career was more than likely going to come to a premature end due to his injury.

They booked him in the most flattering way possible for two years and, coupled with his talents, he became a star. On his way out, he should have taken that status and made a few stars of his own and be it his choice, or WWE's, that never really happened.

[YOUR Hero]

Yo, he put wrestling over.

[Kane Knight]

And with Lesnar having been in the company only 4 months and struggling to catch on at that point.

But yeh, seriously, if anyone thinks Austin should have been used to put other people over, you're an idiot.

Yeah, only stupid people would want to see legit stars made instead of the company tanking into low ratings, losing market status, and finding themselves playing to consistantly smaller audiences.

Actually, come to think of it, who is retarded enough to actually believe that Austin not putting people over was a good idea?

[hb2k]

Steve Austin was the biggest draw in the history of the business. He isn't a mechanic that you use to elevate others. I'm not saying the premise of building new stars is dumb, but it would have been retarded to use Austin as anything less than the man during the era he led, and when the time came to make new stars, as I've already said, it was too late because his neck was shot. When the circumstances are different, and Rock was on his way out, losing to Lesnar in a hugely hyped match at Summerslam was tremendous, but there was never a correct time to do that with Austin. To have jobbed him out when he was a star wouldn't have "made a bigger legit star" at his expense, it would have just lessened Austin's value. It would have been idiotic.

The only possible exception would have been if they feuded Austin and Van Dam near the end of 01, just because Van Dam was so red hot as an act, but seeing as they never put them together, we'll never know.

[Kane Knight]

Actually, come to think of it, who is retarded enough to actually believe that Austin not putting people over was a good idea?

:wave:

[hb2k]

lol. I'll take that as - "I really have no good argument against you".

[Kane Knight]

You can take it as what you want, but that won't make you any less a retard. :y:

[McLegend]

Austin should have put Kane over on his way out

[NeanderCarl]

Fuck Kane, Kane was over enough, and was pretty much spent by the time Austin was on his way out.

To Austin's credit, he fought to put Eddie Guerrero over in 2002, but "took his ball and went home" before the match actually transpired.

[Fox]

Stone Cold's popularity in the late 90's put over wrestling as a whole. With his foul mouth, middle fingers, beer drinking and the ass kicking of his boss, he made wrestling "cool" again.

It's arguable that without even the very presence of Stone Cold, A LOT of people never would have gotten over or even made it big in the WWF(E). He was a huge reason for the number of fans that flocked to WWE shows in the late 90's, and those fans are the reason WWF got over.

If only WWF could find a new gimmick to get over again.

[NeanderCarl]

If anything, Stone Cold was the guy with the LEAST to lose by dropping a few matches. He wasn't exactly known for his quality list of challengers, or consistantly fresh matches with fresh opponents... putting guys over would have helped him immeasurably, plus he could have lost nearly every week without ever denting his popularity anyway; with Austin, wins and losses just didn't matter.

[hb2k]

You can take it as what you want, but that won't make you any less a retard.

Well then I guess if you really believe it should have been done differently then you really are an idiot. Seriously, how dumb would it have been - "Stone Cold, we know you're on fire. We know you're the biggest moneymaker in the history of the business and are still our top draw. Now we'd like to sacrifice you to get someone else over". It wouldn't have made anyone on Austin's level, let alone bigger than him, so it would have been utterly pointless.

EDIT - I swear, the point is right here ^^

[Kane Knight]

Well then I guess if you really believe it should have been done differently then you really are an idiot.

Yolu can keep saying it, but it just proves you're a retard.


Austin putting someone over doesn't mandate him losing.
Austin losing would not put someone on the same level as or above Austin. That's one of the single most idiotic things said in the history of this board.
Austin putting someone over, preferably by actually losing (But definitely by making them look good or strong) WOULD help keep the Attitude Era from dying with his exit and slumping the business.And all you have to come back from that last part is OMGITZAUSTINDROOOOOOLAUSTINCANTLOSEYOUIDIOT!

And you're yet to demonstrate any downside to Austin losing, anyway. Oh boo hoo, it would be bad to ask him to sacrifice for the business! Come on, that's a stupid argument...Especially from the "If you don't agree your a moron" crowd.

[hb2k]

Austin putting someone over doesn't mandate him losing.

In that case, then how can you say he never helped anyone get over? Taker, Rock, HHH, Foley, Kane, all benefitted from working with Austin.

Austin losing would not put someone on the same level as or above Austin. That's one of the single most idiotic things said in the history of this board.

That was the point I was making - maybe you should actually read the point before making a judgement on it. It's right above your post KK - putting other people over wouldn't have elevated anyone above him, so why try and take anything at his expense for a star that wouldn't have been as big? In terms of working with other guys, it wasn't all one way, anyway.

Austin putting someone over, preferably by actually losing (But definitely by making them look good or strong) WOULD help keep the Attitude Era from dying with his exit and slumping the business.

The Attitude Era was always going to end. In fact, right before Mania X7, the show that marked the end of that period, he lost at No Way Out to Triple H. Had Triple H actually turned face and feuded with Austin, the era would have gone to dust anyway because every indicator around was already dictating the change.

The point I'm making wasn't that Austin should never lose - but that to have him put over another guy to take his place wouldn't have worked given the time frame because nobody, even Rock, who was the fucking man, couldn't superceed Austin at the top dog. And if that wasn't your point and you agree, then I don't see why you think him getting others over would have made any difference to the grand scheme anyway, because that period was littered with stars that were big names that were beneath Austin, so him doing any more to put others over wouldn't have really changed the landscape if nobody was to ever take his place.

Especially from the "If you don't agree your a moron" crowd.

You do realise you were one of these, right?