Top 5 MMA Fighters of All Time..

[Kris P Lettus]

5. Sakuraba
4. Fedor
3. Bas Rutten
2. Rampage/Chuck Liddell
1. Chuck Liddell/Rampage

Something like that..

[Y2Ant]

Ken Shamrock would beat all five of those at once

[Rob]

Ken Shamrock would beat all five of those at once

:y:

[Rob]

My 5 in no order

Bas Rutten
Royce Gracie
Kazushi Sakuraba
Randy Couture
Ken Shamrock

I have to rank on the impact they had at their respective peaks, ability in the ring/cage and drawing power. Guys like Ortiz, Vanderlai Silva, Liddell, Fedor, Frank Shamrock, Hughes, Cro Cop, etc were all close and will probably occupy top spots sooner or later.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Royce Gracie was crazy, I remember my brother had a long stretch of renting UFC videos a few years back before the whole UFC thing blew up and Gracie always stood out. I remember watching the Shamrock vs Gracie fight that went to a draw after Gracie had Shamrock in the guard for almost the entire 30 minutes then the 5 minute overtime

[Kris P Lettus]

Ken Shamrock would beat all five of those at once

*cough*

Shamrock couldn't even handle Ortiz, who Liddell beat twice..

I understand him being mentioned because back in the day he was the man, but that statment is retarded..

[Kris P Lettus]

And yeah Rob, Couture bearly missed my list, but I had to have all the five I mentioned.. Bas would be alot higher but I don't really have access to ALOT of his Pancrase shit and whatnot..

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Actually Rob's list is pretty much exactly how I would put mine, however it hurts me not to put Hughes on it. Hughes and Randy would switch in and out probably depending on the day for me.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

How old was Shamrock when he fought Ortiz though? He was a lot better of a fighter in his prime

[Rob]

How old was Shamrock when he fought Ortiz though? He was a lot better of a fighter in his prime

38 I think.

[Kris P Lettus]

There are plenty of fighters that could have but didn't make my list..

I believe Bas, Rampage, and Liddell "could" have beaten him in his prime at 205lbs..

No question about Fedor if Shamrock moved up to heavyweight..

[Y2Ant]

I'm just a big fan of Shamrock really, I don't know too much about many others since i'm only really just getting into the UFC. I do quite like Ortiz and Liddell too.

And I think Shamrock was 41 and Ortiz was 31 when they fought, would it have been different if Shamrock fought him when he was in his prime? Was a bit of a stupid decision to fight him on Shamrock's part in that stage of his career IMO

[Stickman]

I'm just a big fan of Shamrock really, I don't know too much about many others since i'm only really just getting into the UFC. I do quite like Ortiz and Liddell too.

And I think Shamrock was 41 and Ortiz was 31 when they fought, would it have been different if Shamrock fought him when he was in his prime? Was a bit of a stupid decision to fight him on Shamrock's part in that stage of his career IMO

How's it stupid? I'm sure he got paid a tonne of $$$

[Rob]

I'm just a big fan of Shamrock really, I don't know too much about many others since i'm only really just getting into the UFC. I do quite like Ortiz and Liddell too.

And I think Shamrock was 41 and Ortiz was 31 when they fought, would it have been different if Shamrock fought him when he was in his prime? Was a bit of a stupid decision to fight him on Shamrock's part in that stage of his career IMO

Shamrock is 43 now and they didn't fight for the first time 2 years ago.

[Mercury Bullet]

5. Randy Couture
4. Ken Shamrock
3. (As much as it pains me) Tito Ortiz
2. Chuck Liddell
1. Royce Gracie

Honorable Mentions: Hughes, Emelianko (sp?), Jackson, W. Silva, Cro Cop, Sakuraba, Miletich, Penn

[Stickman]

Tito?

[Y2Ant]

Shamrock is 43 now and they didn't fight for the first time 2 years ago.
Well whatever, I was referencing the third fight so 42 at the time maybe?

He might have gotten good money from it but did he honestly think he stood a chance, especially after the second one?

He is a legend, it was just a shame to see him get owned especially when he'd lost twice to the guy already.

[Kris P Lettus]

3. (As much as it pains me) Tito Ortiz


I'm guessing you don't like Tito (niether do I), if so, why put him on the list??

[Mercury Bullet]

I'm guessing you don't like Tito (niether do I), if so, why put him on the list??

Because he probably is one of the best MMA fighters of all time, one of the most obnoxious pricks too...but still one of the best.

[The One]

5. Ken Shamrock (god I hate admitting he was the man at one point)
4. Tito Ortiz (my personal favorite ever)
3. Fedor Emelianenko
2. Royce Gracie
1. Frank Shamrock

I am absolutely SHOCKED no one said Frank yet, as I consider him easily the best fighter ever. But whatever...

[The One]

This is of course assuming we are talking about in their primes. Current day, Fedor is the only person worth a damn. Tito is good, but no where near as fierce as he once was.

[Kris P Lettus]

I am absolutely SHOCKED no one said Frank yet, as I consider him easily the best fighter ever. But whatever...

I can see Ken, but serious Frank??

Bas Rutten beat Franks ass.. Sure Ken beat him but WHATEVER..

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

In round one, Matt Hughes hyperextended Gracie's arm in an armbar which would have caused most to submit, but Gracie refused to tap[4] and held on with a startlingly calm expression on his face. Toward the end of the round, Hughes was able to get Gracie onto his stomach, and proceeded to straddle his back and deliver 17 uncontested punches and elbows from behind to both sides of Gracie's head, causing referee "Big John" McCarthy to stop the match at 4:39. In a later interview, Hughes claimed that he purposely let Gracie out of the arm lock because he knew that Royce Gracie would not submit and would rather allow his arm to break.

Got that off Wikipedia...can anyone confirm that? If so, Royce Gracie is an even sicker fuck then I thought he was (I know he didn't tap obviously, but did Hughes really say that?)

[Kris P Lettus]

Yeah, it was kinda like that..

Same when Renzo Gracie fought Sakuraba in Pride.. Sakuraba got him in a kimora (sp?) (arm submission) and dilocated his elbow.. Renzo didn't tap and was pissed they stopped the fight.. All of the Gracies are like that though.. All heart..

[Mercury Bullet]

Another Gracie has let his arm get broken before, so yeh thats probably true.

[Kris P Lettus]

Renzo Gracie Vs. Kasushi "The Gracie Hunter" Sakuraba

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[YOUR Hero]

5.Rutten
4.Liddell
3.Couture
2.Shamrock
1.Gracie

[Reavant]

Dan Henderson (first to hold two titles at once)
Wanderlei Silva (been around for a long time and goes through cycles where he goes through a slump and comes back stronger than ever. One of the longest reigning middleweight champs in pride)
Chuck Liddel (obviously)
Randy Cotour (first to win titles in different weightclasses an first to come out of retirement and win one again.)
Frank Shamrock (brother of ken and unstoppable through the 90s)

no order what so ever

[Reavant]

I dont understand why everyone puts rampage up there.He is good and he beat Liddel, but Id say that was more of the match-up itself. Ramage has been beaten by guys that fight like him, like silva. I personlly think tito could take him just because of how they match up.

[YOUR Hero]

Dan Severn

[Rob]

Dan Henderson (first to hold two titles at once)
Wanderlei Silva (been around for a long time and goes through cycles where he goes through a slump and comes back stronger than ever. One of the longest reigning middleweight champs in pride)
Chuck Liddel (obviously)
Randy Cotour (first to win titles in different weightclasses an first to come out of retirement and win one again.)
Frank Shamrock (brother of ken and unstoppable through the 90s)

no order what so ever

You ever seen MMA? Seriously?

And Dan Henderson might be the first guy to hold two different titles at two weights at once but how many other people were given that same oppotunity?

[Crimson]

Jus go ahead and void that last ranking...no Gracie,Bas, in there, chalk it up to limited UFC viewing.

[Reavant]

You ever seen MMA? Seriously?

And Dan Henderson might be the first guy to hold two different titles at two weights at once but how many other people were given that same oppotunity?hahaha yes and i participate in the sport. I have trained with actual fighters who have fought in the UFC. Ive trained with Andrei Arlovski, met with Matt Hughes and worked with Frank Shamrock along with the various fight schools out of chicago like Hackneys and Gilbert. My ranking didnt really come from personal opinion as much as it did from their personal in formation on the fighters. And if you dont believe me go to the article on the frontpage of this site where andrei talks about fighting Fedor and where he says he trains with john and sean at overtime. Then go to overtimewrestling.com and look up the trainers john kading and sean bormet and note the link to andrei's official site where it thanks sean and john on the front page of the site.

Oh and I didnt put Gracie in there because he is not a top MMA fighter. He is an outstanding Jujitsu fighter. Back in the day when no one knew what that was he was dominant, but if you put him in there now he cant hang. They proved this already with his fight against hughes if you want to argue that fact.

[Crimson]

So the fact that he is way past his prime has nothing to do with it,when he fought Hughes? And the rankings were for top 5 of all time..not right now. The influence Gracie had in the beginning and the way he dominated ,he just has to be an automatic in there.

[KillerWolf]

Royce Gracie
Chuck Liddell
Matt Hughes
Ken Shamrock
Tito Ortiz

these are not necessarilly my favorites, just how i would rate in objective noteworthyness.

[Reavant]

Your right... its of all time. However if you put him in a fight when he was in his prime against someone now, he would not be able to hang. If we went on your reason for we would have to include guys like Ken Shamrock, Tank Abbot, and Tito Ortiz. They all had a ton of influence and were good back in their day, but look at the now. If Tito gets his head out of his ass, he could be back up there again, but thats beside the point.

Yes Gracie was instrumental in bringing Jujitsu into the UFC and MMA, but like I said... He is a great JUJITSU fighter. NOT an MMA fighter. Back in his day he was not fighting MMA. He was only doing jujitsu in his fights. Everyone else was doing their own specific type of martial arts. Those were inferior to jujitsu and he won his fights, and everyone started to incorperate his shit into theirs.

Now I know you love Gracie and shit, but hes not an mma fighter. Fighters now dont even consider him one. They think he opened their sport up, but thats it.

[Crimson]

lol, I don't love Gracie, I love what he did. But as far as how he would fare nowadays in his prime we will never know, it's not like he would only stick to ju-jitsu either, he would also have to had changed his style.

[Reavant]

well we saw him try and it didnt work out too well

[Rob]

Oh and I didnt put Gracie in there because he is not a top MMA fighter. He is an outstanding Jujitsu fighter. Back in the day when no one knew what that was he was dominant, but if you put him in there now he cant hang. They proved this already with his fight against hughes if you want to argue that fact.

Not a top MMA fighter? Was dominating the early UFC's when they were tournaments not enough? Doesn't matter if people didn't realise how good he was back in the early 90's because the bottom line is that he was great. Matt Hughes even called him a legend and he put UFC on the fucking map. Yeah not good enough to make the all time list though.

People who think Royce Gracie isn't on the all time MMA top fighter list are the same people who think Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels are shitty wrestlers. Basically they are fucking idiots.

[Kris P Lettus]

I dont understand why everyone puts rampage up there.He is good and he beat Liddel, but Id say that was more of the match-up itself. Ramage has been beaten by guys that fight like him, like silva. I personlly think tito could take him just because of how they match up.

Maybe because this is a subjective list of each persons favorite fighters??

I fucking love Rampage.. I know he's gotten beat before, but that is because he is not scarred to lose.. I love his fighting style and personallity.. I love watching him fight in general..

That being said, I don't know why he didn't make your list..

[Apocolyptik1]

To many factors play into the fact that I cant seem to make a list with 5 full guys. I get to about 3 and then I just get flustered, and most of them were already mentioned.

This topic should be narrowed down. I dont agree with most of the things Reavant said, and mainly just because they way he said everything, I cant totally disagree either. MMA 15 years ago and MMA today are 2 different sports. However, saying that Royce is not an MMA fighter is fucking dicktarded because regardless of when it was and what style he was using, it was still MMA. You said it yourself, he went out and used a style that no one else used and proved it was superior. However, the other fighters were using different styles also, and MMA was founded on stylized matchups. Of course Royce was MMA, he was just the bare bones MMA. Of course he did a lot for the sport, his entire family did a lot for the sport.

Him losing to Hughes does not in anyway really tarnish the guy. Since you "train" and have "trained" with other fighters, you should already know that people win and loose. Matt Hughes is a dickhead, but a great fighter, and was welterweight champion at the time. Losing to the champion in your respective weightclass does not take anything away from you as a fighter. Thats why he is the CHAMPION, because he was the best at that time in his weightclass. Regardless, Gracie fights in a week, and if you want to see how far he has come (I have seen some of his new stuff), tune into K-1 Dynamite and watch him fight one of my fav fighters. Or as Rampage calls him "Sakaraba's old ass".

[Kris P Lettus]

It's funny that he names Couture, but doesn't say Gracie because he lost to Hughes.. Couture has lost a few time, bro.. And Liddell?? Come one, Liddell lost TWICE to a fighter you're are trying to convince people doesn't belong on the list..

Every MMA fighter will lose.. Someone, some night will throw that perfect punch.. Everyone can be knocked out or submitted, I don't care how badass you are..

[Reavant]

Not a top MMA fighter? Was dominating the early UFC's when they were tournaments not enough? Doesn't matter if people didn't realise how good he was back in the early 90's because the bottom line is that he was great. Matt Hughes even called him a legend and he put UFC on the fucking map. Yeah not good enough to make the all time list though.

People who think Royce Gracie isn't on the all time MMA top fighter list are the same people who think Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels are shitty wrestlers. Basically they are fucking idiots.So im a fucking idiot? ok. well, ive given you my argument and along with it being valid points, its not like im making it up. I did form my opinion around what i hear others in the business say. Now i know you have some man crush on gracie, and i think hes great too, but if you cant make an argument that isnt rooted from soly how much you like the competitor and not on being objective then please shut up.

[Kris P Lettus]

if you cant make an argument that isnt rooted from soly how much you like the competitor and not on being objective then please shut up.

You are making the argument based on your opinions also.. It's a subjective discussion.. There is no possible way to have a definitive list because it's like arguing Ali/Tyson.. Opinions are gonna come into play..

[Reavant]

It's funny that he names Couture, but doesn't say Gracie because he lost to Hughes.. Couture has lost a few time, bro.. And Liddell?? Come one, Liddell lost TWICE to a fighter you're are trying to convince people doesn't belong on the list..

Every MMA fighter will lose.. Someone, some night will throw that perfect punch.. Everyone can be knocked out or submitted, I don't care how badass you are..ugh!... ok.... I have said many times now that leaving gracie off wasnt really anything to do with losing to hughes so much as the fact that he was just a jujitsu fighter. I used the example of him losing to huges to show what happened when he had to rely on more than just jujitsu.

Yea I realized Cotour has lost a few times, but the way he has developed himself and has been able to come back better and better and be a true study of the sport is what makes him a top guy.

If Liddel got his ass beat by Rampage Id have to agree with you. BUT he got caught in his second fight. Ever since his loss to cotour, he has improved his style and grown as a fighter. Rampage is a great fighter, I just dont see him as one of the best because he consistantly has trouble with people that dont back down to him and come right after him. Maybe after he proves himself some now that he has new trainers that will change but right now he has done nothing but connect with one good punch.

[Kris P Lettus]

Have you seen his old Pride fights??

He dominated Liddell in their first fight, he KO'ed Arona with a slam, and even looked good losing to legends like Sakuraba.. Sure he's lost a few times in the past few years but it was to guys like Waderlei Silva (who as much as I hate to say it had a great chance of beating Liddell had that fight happened) and Shogun Rua (who would be contending for the Lightweight Championship in UFC if he was there)..

For you to make it out like it was a lucky punch is stupid as fuck.. The same could be said for Liddell against Couture or Ortiz.. Rampage KO'ed Liddell with a perfectly placed punch.. Lucky or no, he won the fight fair and square.. Just like Liddell has won many fights by landing a great punch.. Doesn't devalue the win..

Once again, I don't care if you didn't put him on your list, but to cast away him and Royce Gracie is retarded.. It shouldn't even be an arguement anyway because it's like arguing who's better Elvis or the Beatles.. It's subjective..

[Reavant]

Im not saying Rampage had a lucky win. Your right it was legit, but it wasnt a completely dominating performance like it was the first time. If he handled Chuck like that the second time it would be a little different. Not to take anything away from him, but it didnt show to anyone that Chuck was all that inferior to Rampage. He didnt get killed he got caught. I personally would have liked Rampage to kill chuck rather than catch him. I also think that he would have anyway. What I am saying about rampage is that guys who actually come at him the same speed and intensity that he comes at them usually doesnt work out well for Rampage, NOW I KNOW THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS, but there are far fewer exceptions than there is evidence.

And if fighters werent worried about being PC on camera theyd be saying the same thing about Gracie.... AGAIN Im not taking anything away from what gracie has done for the sport, and what hes done, but I am saying the god honest truth that he until recently as just been a jujitsu fighter.

[Rob]

It doesn't matter if he is a jujitsu fighter. What matters is wins and drawing money. And he did both. What has Chuck Liddell for example done that Gracie didn't? Liddell only won by KO so is he only a stand up fighter? That doesn't make his wins any less impressive.

[Reavant]

What does wins and drawing money have to do with being an mma fighter. In terms of accomplishment there isnt much difference, but lets not reach for examples here. Chuck has a pretty decent ground game in that no one can keep him down long enough to do damage. He also can stop nearly everyoes shots. Which is a deterrent for other people to shoot on him. That would be his skills from wrestling. Oh and just cuz hes stays on his feet doesnt say anything about his skills but rather the skills of his opponent and how they do not have the skills to make him change his style.

[Reavant]

The only way I would revise my top 5 would be replacing liddel with pat militich.

[Crimson]

The only way I would revise my top 5 would be replacing liddel with Royce fucking Gracie.

Starting to come around ?

[Reavant]

no

[Crimson]

ok

[The One]

I can see Ken, but serious Frank??

Bas Rutten beat Franks ass...

Every MMA fighter will lose.. Someone, some night will throw that perfect punch.. Everyone can be knocked out or submitted, I don't care how badass you are..

[Rob]

What does wins and drawing money have to do with being an mma fighter.

Are you serious?

If you are a great fighter, you win fights and make a ton of cash. How hard is that to understand?

[Kris P Lettus]

List Frank's acoplishments..

[Reavant]

Are you serious?

If you are a great fighter, you win fights and make a ton of cash. How hard is that to understand?Drawing money just means your popular. If the crowd wants to se you then you will be seen and paid for it. Simple as that. Now your going to make an arguement about how if your a great fighter you will be popular and making money. Whatever. The fact is that money doesnt translate to being a MMA fighter. Pat Militch was a good one too but almost everythinghe did after ultimate fighting was in trouble was underground in places that didnt have functional sporting commisions. Oh and he wasnt making much money... in case you were wondering.

[Reavant]

Actually Bas Rutten beat Frank 2 out of three times. He beat Frank in a split decision and the other because of a stoppage because of a cut. Now I didnt see the fight that was stopped from the cut, so Bas might have been killing him, but a split decision doesnt sound that convincing. And Franks first fight ever was against Bas where he beat him in a split decision. He also never lost his title in the UFC.

[Reavant]

Oh and dont forget that Bas has been submitted by Ken Shamrock twice, so its not like hes untouchable

[BigDaddyCool]

1. Glen Danzig
2. Glen Danzig
3. Glen Danzig
4. Ken Shamrock
5. Glen Danzig

[Reavant]

i like what u did there

[Rob]

Oh and dont forget that Bas has been submitted by Ken Shamrock twice, so its not like hes untouchable

Nobody is untouchable in this sport though.

[Reavant]

That was the point I was trying to make... Krispy was trying to take away frm frank saying he got killed by Bas.

[Apocolyptik1]

Ok to get back to the original point of the entire argument itself that I still dont agree with you about, is that Royce Gracie is an has always been an MMA fighter.

MMA up until 6 years ago was not about "Everyone being a complete fighter". It was about you putting "your style" against your competitors (AHEM *Hence ***Mixed*** Martial Art's), and seeing who came out on top. Anyone that would say that about Gracie is tool, and didnt fight pre 2000.

If thats true about Gracie, then its true about every other fighter before fighters started to train differently for MMA itself. If Gracie isnt an MMA fighter, then neither is Ken Shamrock, Dan Severn, Kimo Leopoldo, Tank Abbott, Frank Mir, Igor Vovchancyn and any other fighter that I could think of off the top of my head that uses 1 particular strategy more then another.

[Rob]

If nobody could beat jujitsu, it would still be MMA today dominated by the jujitsu style. It's still Mixed Martial Arts.

I can't believe I'm even debating this now.

[Reavant]

Ok to get back to the original point of the entire argument itself that I still dont agree with you about, is that Royce Gracie is an has always been an MMA fighter.

MMA up until 6 years ago was not about "Everyone being a complete fighter". It was about you putting "your style" against your competitors (AHEM *Hence ***Mixed*** Martial Art's), and seeing who came out on top. Anyone that would say that about Gracie is tool, and didnt fight pre 2000.

If thats true about Gracie, then its true about every other fighter before fighters started to train differently for MMA itself. If Gracie isnt an MMA fighter, then neither is Ken Shamrock, Dan Severn, Kimo Leopoldo, Tank Abbott, Frank Mir, Igor Vovchancyn and any other fighter that I could think of off the top of my head that uses 1 particular strategy more then another.6 years ago MMa wasnt even a term that was used. The term was no holds bar fighting or ultimate fighting which really meant the same thing. MMA is by definition the terms of embodying many different forms of martial arts and using them. It also is a term that is in reference to the rules and practice that goes into the MMA style of fighting. Now before you try and make it sound like Im saying everyone before 6 years ago wasnt an mma fighter then slow down. Gracie brought in a style that was superior to all others and after three UFC tournaments where he dominated, everyne started to incorporate his style into theirs. I will say that every fighter n those early tournaments were not mma fighters either. they were martial artists, not mixed martia artists.

once they started to incorporate other styles then they developed into the mma style. Now I havent seen Gracie fight recently and i heard hes been doing good in fights but until he mounts a comeback where he is domnating everyone Im not puting him on my list.

[Rob]

Sorry MMA was being used 6 years ago. All you need to do is find the old Wrestling Observer shows or the Eddie Goldman shows on Eyada from 1999 to 2001.

[Stickman]

I hate the term MMA. It's professional fighting not really martial arts.

[BigDaddyCool]

i like what u did there

I like what I do every where.

[Kris P Lettus]

1. Glen Danzig
2. Glen Danzig
3. Glen Danzig
4. Ken Shamrock
5. Glen Danzig

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That was a fat shitty metal singer, not a trained MMA fighter..

[HeartBreakMan2k]

BTW, for the record (just so in 3 or 4 years I can bump this and brag) - am I the only would who thinks IF he continues at it like he is, Brock Lesnar could potentially end up on this list.

[Rob]

BTW, for the record (just so in 3 or 4 years I can bump this and brag) - am I the only would who thinks IF he continues at it like he is, Brock Lesnar could potentially end up on this list.

Absolutely not. I called his in the wrestling forum months ago.