Who runs a company like this? (Raw Spoilers)

[JT]

It's been said, but seriously how can Vince McMahon or anyone run their corporation like this. Anyone else who runs a company like he does would be nearly out of business by now. I remember years ago speaking about calculated risk, but it seems that Vince gambles on what he simply finds to be entertaining and entirely to his audience. I swore last week that I would stop watching wrestling, yet only find myself watching again out of habbit, and once again disappointed.

We start off a wrestling show with women in bikinis shooting each other with super soakers in a poor attemt at a gimmick battle royal (which in itself a BR already being a gimmick match). We then have main event feuds with the fan favorite is either green and not entirely over (Bobby Lashley) or stale and in need of a revamp (John Cena). There enemies are a man who has a decent gimmick but one that may go stale soon if not already (Umanga) and a man who isn't over, may never be over, has no wrestling skills, has no mic skills, and the only thing going for him is he is bigger than Big Show (I don't think his name needs to be mentioned).

Your IC Champ is unknown and not over (whatever his name is)...his challenger will never and should never be over (Masters). I would mention more, but I barely remember what else is going on to really even care to mention it (I'm suprised I remember the IC title). I haven't watch Smackdown in forever when that got stale and ECW I stopped watching in Oct-Nov and then came back for a short period of time for a nice little feud (Originals/New Breed) before that blew over too.

Then of course in recent weeks you hear about all the firings and drama going on behind the camera. When it comes to Steph, most of it I don't mind. When most people enter a position like hers, the first thing they do to maximize profit is let people go (it's not right...just business). However, the firing of Ariel caught me off gaurd. I mean I didn't like the other firings as well, but still. She was over, she helped place Kevin Throrn over, and was considered by many the most over diva in the WWE. Her firing leaves a diva out that both made a interesting character a little more boring (Kevin Thorn), and if I may say...ECW a little more boring (though fairly dead to begin with). And what was this decision based on...the fact that WWE didn't think she had the "right look".

As bad as WCW was at times, there most sucessful time was based around Eric Bischoff taking advantage of Turners Research and Development office to find out what wrestling fans want. However, all you ever seem to hear from WWE these days is that most decisions in the company are based on the whime of what Vince McMahon wants to see. Note there that I didn't say "what he THINKS fans want to see" but "what HE wants to see". He's the first man to actually FIRE an audience in the isolation of ECW fans in the Tri-State area when they didn't react to the way he wanted to for Batista vs Big Show last August. He switched the show to WCW country in Atlanta, Georgia. You can't even make the argument that the fans were just not willing to give people other than ECW wrestlers a chance, because they did give CM Punk a chance as well as any other wrestler who's in ring abilities entertained (which was always ECW...didn't have to be great wrestlers as long as you gave it your all).

So I ask, how can you run a company like this? How can you ignore the fans and guess what they want for them instead of researching what they want. For now it works because you have fans in a force of habbit, but with Monday's slowly becoming a strong night on the Basic Channels (ABC: MNF, NBC: Heroes, CBS: Two and a Half Men), people might finally start kicking the habbit for better programs. WWE needs to learn that they need to rethink their strategy, not looking to what a few writers say...talk to the tallent who are on television with what they should...talk with fans with what they like about wrestling, and not the dumb ones who have been force fed your shit and go "yum" try finding the ones who don't and give valid reasons why. You may notice if you mention those opinions to the dumb ones, they may agree to an extend with it as well. Companies shouldn't be run like a plaything...they should be run like a corporation. If you don't enjoy the way the company is going, maybe it's time to call it quits and let someone in who can go along with todays fans and enjoy the job. But hey, that's just an opinion...

[St. Jimmy]

I can't be bothered to read any of that, sorry.

[Nervous Ferret]

lol JT Kool loves ze cocke

[The One]

Also, you may wanna put a spoiler alert on it before Brits get pissy.

[JT]

I can't be bothered to read any of that, sorry.

Then STFU and go to another thread. Why do I need to hear that you can't be "bothered" to read it? I spent my time writing that all out to hear actual opinions on people who "do" read it and have something profound to say...whether they agree or disagree. I don't need to know you didn't...I don't give a fuck that you didn't...I don't want to know you didn't...you shouldn't post in the fucking thread if you didn't. I don't enter the Discussion Forum, find an article on politics, and enter the thread to say "I don't care, so I didn't bother to read it". Seriously, go to the casual forum and create a spam thread if you need to increase your post count, and fuck off from my genuine contribution to the forums. Thank you.

[Nervous Ferret]

lol JT Kool is bitter because we don't respect his opinion.

[The One]

Kool just lost his cool.

[Bad Company]

Yeah, I agree JT, the company is a fucking mess. But it's Vince's baby.

[Dorkchop]

Kool just lost his cool.

Das not cool

[The Show Off]

Then STFU and go to another thread. Why do I need to hear that you can't be "bothered" to read it? I spent my time writing that all out to hear actual opinions on people who "do" read it and have something profound to say...whether they agree or disagree. I don't need to know you didn't...I don't give a fuck that you didn't...I don't want to know you didn't...you shouldn't post in the fucking thread if you didn't. I don't enter the Discussion Forum, find an article on politics, and enter the thread to say "I don't care, so I didn't bother to read it". Seriously, go to the casual forum and create a spam thread if you need to increase your post count, and fuck off from my genuine contribution to the forums. Thank you.

I can't be bothered to read all of that...

[Bad Company]

Fuck some of you guys are douchbags.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Haha, Bad Company has a really, really good point.

I agree, JT. In part, anyway. They are handling Santino Marella wrong at this point, but I think he may be over with crowd. I don't know how long that will last, though.

The Bikini Battle Royal was just stupid. I'd be embarrassed to be caught watching something that cheesy. Yeah, it's even cheesier than their regular product.

Saturday Night Main Event sounds worse. The company gets a chance to appear on network television, so they put their best foot forward, don't they? Their main event sounds like it is going to be Kane, Eugene and Doink the Clown vs. Kevin Thorn, Viscera and Umaga. What the fuck? I'm glad they did something unexpected, and had main event guys like Umaga and Kane hobnob with lower-card guys like Eugene, Viscera and Thorn, but is this match really going to make any new WWE fans? I guess it is random crap thrown at the TV screen to see what sticks, which is a good indicator of what the WWE has going currently.

[Blitz]

Because it's making money.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Everyone hated The Rock when he debuted

[SammyG]

I spit in the face of people who don't want to be kool

[M-A-G]

The only thing I can say is don't spend money on or watch what you don't like.

[Mr Regal]

The thing is Vince can do whatever the hell he likes and all the douche bags accept it and keep watching.

Cena vs Kahli.....awesome:roll:

Lashley vs Vince.....awesome:roll:

WWE will probably be around until the sun burns out. And Vince will be a head in a jar pushing shitty no talents.

[KingofOldSchool]

You know what I hate?

















Mailmen.






Well not Karl Malone, he was pretty cool. But all other Mailmen, I hate.






Well not the Mailman on Mister Rogers, he was pretty swell as well.

[Theo Dious]

Well not the Mailman on Mister Rogers, he was pretty swell as well.

Speedy Delivery > John Cena

[YOUR Hero]

So basically you are upset over the firing of a particular diva.

Get over it.

[Kane Knight]

JT, ratings have been going down for a while. Vince doesn't give a shit.

Everyone hated The Rock when he debuted

And Vince put the title on him and pushed him as a face for three years despite booing.

[RP]

Zebra Cakes

[JT]

Everyone hated The Rock when he debuted

Point here? If it's in reference to someone like John Cena, yea...and if they went the direction with Cena that they did with Rocky, maybe he wouldn't be stale. Actually, that can go for the product as a whole because when people hated the Rock, he was revamped and dropped his old ways. WWE doesn't go in that direction anymore...they steamroll foward no matter what the crowd thinks, thus forcing more people to leave.

[JT]

Everyone hated The Rock when he debuted

Point here? If it's in reference to someone like John Cena, yea...and if they went the direction with Cena that they did with Rocky, maybe he wouldn't be state. Actually, that can go for the product as a whole because when people hated the Rock, he was revamped and dropped his old ways. WWE doesn't go in that direction anymore...they steamroll foward no matter what the crowd thinks, thus forcing more people to leave.

[RP]

Point here? If it's in reference to someone like John Cena, yea...and if they went the direction with Cena that they did with Rocky, maybe he wouldn't be state. Actually, that can go for the product as a whole because when people hated the Rock, he was revamped and dropped his old ways. WWE doesn't go in that direction anymore...they steamroll foward no matter what the crowd thinks, thus forcing more people to leave.

[Xero]

Gonna guess this is about wrestling not being on a wrestling show.

It's not a wrestling show, it's an entertainment/action show that happens to take place in a big arena and there happens to be a ring in the middle. Vince was never in it for the wrestling, he's always been in it for the showmanship.

If it's not about that, well, fuck you if I'm going to have to read that.

[JT]

Gonna guess this is about wrestling not being on a wrestling show.

It's not a wrestling show, it's an entertainment/action show that happens to take place in a big arena and there happens to be a ring in the middle. Vince was never in it for the wrestling, he's always been in it for the showmanship.

If it's not about that, well, fuck you if I'm going to have to read that.

No it's not about more wrestling than entertainment or vice versa. The only sport I watch is wrestling, and I watch it because it has the entertainment side that most sports done have. My arguement is that the company no longer tries to entertain the fans, but decides what should be entertaining for the fans and fight against the fans even when they express their dislike of it.

[Xero]

(Still haven't read the whole thread so I may be repeating some things.)

WWE has never done that though except during the MNW/Attitude Era. It just happened that, before now, what had been put in front of everyone is what everyone liked. Vince needs to adapt, but he doesn't know how without another big company out there breathing down his neck when he doesn't have a choice.

The internet, over the past 6 years or so, has changed the face of wrestling, and it may have destroyed main stream wrestling forever. How we watch it, what we know, etc. Sure, it was around before then, but not at such an enormous scale. Marks know more and more about the inner workings of the business than ever before. Anyone can search "WWE" in Google and the 8th result brings back an IWC site.

Until someone other than Vince or Stephanie runs WWE, I don't think we'll ever see another true boom, at least until another big company comes along, and that's not for 4 or 5 years at the earliest I would assume.

[Mooияakeя™]

It's in a state fact.

I hold my hopes one one day ECW will eb given free reign of it's content (yeah right)

Kennedy comes into his own as a fully fledged mother fucker who keeps some of his mad humour (my best is when he goes of camera after saying Misteerrrrrrrr Kenneddddyyyy....... then comes back quickly and just shouts Kenneeeddddyyyyyyyy! lol.) - This bitch can take it to another level. He has the in-ring, his mic is good for his time in there and I think he can be really liked (in a way Austin was meant to be a heel but the crowd just loved him)

Mattitude makes a return and he fucks Jeff up (that'd be a good feud)

Certain people get their shots now all the older dudes are injured

They use teh time slots right and give peopel a chance rather than just keep showing you what happened last week (or even worse at a PPV 2 months back) over and over again on the same night week after week.

The IC would get credibility back (so too Cruiserweight)

The ECW roster gets more packed and the TV title makes a comeback with the Tag Titles (not their's plenty of talent out there and more than enough to come up from OVW - especially to ECW as it's rather not as polished as RAW or SD).

Paul Birchall gets back in WWE ASAP.

[PepperCarrotMan]

my best is when he goes of camera after saying Misteerrrrrrrr Kenneddddyyyy....... then comes back quickly and just shouts Kenneeeddddyyyyyyyy! lol.

OMG no way my best is when BOBBY LASHLEY is mad and his eyes get big and ur like OMG THEY GONNA POP OUT but they dont and LOL I mean he can be the next Rock but when I first saw him I was liek, "LOL, this guy is soft spoken he must be soft hitting what a crap" but then I saw that he is HARD HITTING and I was like OMG he is soft spoken but HARD hitting wow what a CONTRAST and now he is THE BEST star in the WWE since John Cena who is so good that u cant see him lol.

:shifty:

[Mooияakeя™]

OMG no way my best is when BOBBY LASHLEY is mad and his eyes get big and ur like OMG THEY GONNA POP OUT but they dont and LOL I mean he can be the next Rock but when I first saw him I was liek, "LOL, this guy is soft spoken he must be soft hitting what a crap" but then I saw that he is HARD HITTING and I was like OMG he is soft spoken but HARD hitting wow what a CONTRAST and now he is THE BEST star in the WWE since John Cena who is so good that u cant see him lol.

:shifty:



<MARQUEE BEHAVIOR="ALTERNATE" DIRECTION="RIGHT" SCROLLAMOUNT="20"> <MARQUEE BEHAVIOR="ALTERNATE" DIRECTION="UP" WIDTH="320" HEIGHT="400" SCROLLAMOUNT="10"> <MARQUEE BEHAVIOR="ALTERNATE" DIRECTION="DOWN" WIDTH="100" HEIGHT="90" SCROLLAMOUNT="5"></MARQUEE>http://img279.imageshack.us/img279/7325/download9dp.jpg<br>**PSA for PepperCarrotMan**</</MARQUEE> </MARQUEE>

[BigDaddyCool]

You know what will make Vince change his ways? Bitching about it on the internet.

[Mercury Bullet]

You know what will make Vince change his ways? Bitching about it on the internet.

:y:

:lol:

[JT]

(Still haven't read the whole thread so I may be repeating some things.)

WWE has never done that though except during the MNW/Attitude Era. It just happened that, before now, what had been put in front of everyone is what everyone liked. Vince needs to adapt, but he doesn't know how without another big company out there breathing down his neck when he doesn't have a choice.

The internet, over the past 6 years or so, has changed the face of wrestling, and it may have destroyed main stream wrestling forever. How we watch it, what we know, etc. Sure, it was around before then, but not at such an enormous scale. Marks know more and more about the inner workings of the business than ever before. Anyone can search "WWE" in Google and the 8th result brings back an IWC site.

Until someone other than Vince or Stephanie runs WWE, I don't think we'll ever see another true boom, at least until another big company comes along, and that's not for 4 or 5 years at the earliest I would assume.


Well to sum up the beginning post real fast for those who can't be bothered to read 5-6 paragraphs...my argument isn't trying to rehash the age old argument of "the WWE should do this" but "why would ANY company run like this?" In retrospect, others could be named, but those are companies that have such a stranglehold on there markets that there is no other choice. Sure, I guess you can say WWE has a stranglehold on the wrestling market, but not the entertainment market and you find more and more people every year giving up on the show to tune in somewhere else.

Now as for the Attitude Era, lets take a look at that. This was the time in WWE history where they were gaining nearly 8.5 million viewers every week, selling out every show, gaining huge PPV buyrates, and selling tons of merchanside. The company during this time actually became worth over $1 billion dollars. Now look...the shows are gaining the same ratings now for Raw that they were getting back in 1993 with a higher budget being spent on production, PPV buyrates (including Wrestlemania's) have grown lower and more disappointing, shows now need to be taped off because they no longer sell out (unless it's a big PPV). The company still makes a great deal of money, but as a Finance major with a degree in business, I've always been taught that a company should try to "maximize" their profits, and here instead is a guy who throws money away on his company for half-assed business adventures in other sports, movies, resturants, and etc while no longer placing the effort to keep the company making the money going stronger.

Oh, and as for the whole thing with the IWC and internet fans leading downfall of wrestling...blah! I see the internet as a 2 way street. While we the fans know more about the companies inner workings, the WWE now has a way of getting reactions from the fans on what they like and dislike about wrestling, not to mention see what turns out to be a hit or not a hit with the fans. Of course not every wrestling fan has a great opinion, just like not every wrestling rumor is real. The trick is to get a survey of all these different people, and find out what is the most common that they agree with.

However, as you mentioned, the company will probably not change as long as either Vince or Steph are at the helm. They both seem to have a similar personality where they want things their way and no other way. I'm not dumb though, I realize that they will probably not change unless backed in a corner, but to wait till there is a problem to actually try and not bullshit around...that's fucking stupid.

[JT]

The only thing I can say is don't spend money on or watch what you don't like.

I don't spend my money on it, I no longer watch ECW or Smackdown, and slowly I'm beginning to shut off Raw every week when I can't stand anymore. When Heroes were airing and I was home, I wouldn't even bother to flip the channel to Raw during commcercials, and after the finally, I tuned to Raw for 5 minutes before shutting it off. I'm still a wrestling fan, and still have my opinion that I express because of so.

[M-A-G]

I don't spend my money on it, I no longer watch ECW or Smackdown, and slowly I'm beginning to shut off Raw every week when I can't stand anymore. When Heroes were airing and I was home, I wouldn't even bother to flip the channel to Raw during commcercials, and after the finally, I tuned to Raw for 5 minutes before shutting it off. I'm still a wrestling fan, and still have my opinion that I express because of so.


And you're welcome to your opinion. I didn't say you didn't have a point.

[Stickman]

Raw is pretty shitty right now.

[Kane Knight]

Until someone other than Vince or Stephanie runs WWE, I don't think we'll ever see another true boom, at least until another big company comes along, and that's not for 4 or 5 years at the earliest I would assume.

Or until Vince gets lucky and DOESN'T blow it.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Once you stop watching, he will stop running the company, but it doesn't look like that's gonna happen any time soon.

[BigDaddyCool]

You could always just have fun watching it and find humor in all the crap they push out.

[Anybody Thrilla]

You could always just have fun watching it and find humor in all the crap they push out.

That's the key.

[BigDaddyCool]

Yeah, just remeber it is wrestling and wrestling is for retarded babies anyways. So just sit back and enjoy it. Quiet trying to put rhyme or reason to it.

[Kalyx triaD]

I gotta admit, last Monday's main-event was a joke both on paper and in practice.

Cena needs to get back to his rapper roots, or atleast something like that in the near future. I gave a damn about him when he cut freestyle promos on guys like Undertaker and Lesner. He was the only one kicking it like that!

Khali needs to be released. I know he represents the side-show aspect pro-wrestling was built on eons ago, but that shit doesn't fly now. He's not even fun to play with in the games. And it's been my experience that when superstars aren't interesting in a freakin videogame, they suck in real life as well.

I like Lashley, but like Goldberg and Lesner before him, he's not booked right. I'm willing to bet money I don't have that he can deliver great matches given the right opponant and extra training.

Umaga works in a Sunday Night Heat sort of way.

Shane needs to join the roster full time and give us more King of the Ring 2001 quality stuff. They should give him a Starscream-y ID where he's plotting against Vince to overthrow him.

[Dorkchop]

Shane needs to join the roster full time and give us more King of the Ring 2001 quality stuff. They should give him a Starscream-y ID where he's plotting against Vince to overthrow him.

Maybe not a full time wrestler, but I do like the idea of him plotting to overthrow Vince. If they do it slowly, and subtly where a lot of people don't fully know or realise what he's doing until it's finally unfolding it could be awesome.

I found Shane pretty boring last night. Maybe his mind was somewhere else, or his heart just wasn't in it, but he didn't seem like typical Shane McMahon. I know in wrestling you're not really supposed to have "off" days with your character.

Vince can't be on tv forever. For the past 10 years there has been some sort of main authority figure on tv so it's likely to not change.

A sweet idea would be for Shane to fuck up big time costing Vince something. it would have to be pretty big. Like if Vince and Austin had a true final big ass major feud/match type dealy, and Shane fucks up and costs Vince the match, feud, his dignity, all that jazz. Since Shane is under contract, Vince would have to still find him work to do, so Shane has to interview, announce, crap like that. Eventually Shane and Vince would become closer and Shane would be second in command again. All the while Shane's been plotting to overthrow Vince for a year or so (when he starts the commentating, interviewing stuff).

That's just my Alienoid storyline for a storyline.

Khali and Umaga were hilarious. I hope they do that a couple of more times. Only a couple.

[Kalyx triaD]

You know what WWE needs? Comic-Book writers. Event-Stories are overdone in today's comics but pro-wrestling could that kind of story telling. Dork's idea for Shane's overthrow plot seems like one of those comic book build ups. The brands could be treated as 'issues' where story tie-ins could be added, too. I think that kind of writing fits pretty well.

It's better than the sloppy style they got now; which is none at all.

[NeanderCarl]

Also, you may wanna put a spoiler alert on it before Brits get pissy.

Why would we get pissy? We get Raw live, and we get SmackDown before you do. The only thing you could possibly spoil is ECW, and who even cares?

[Mooияakeя™]

Why would we get pissy? We get Raw live, and we get SmackDown before you do. The only thing you could possibly spoil is ECW, and who even cares?

Yeah, he's got a point. We'd get pissy as much as anyone who didn't want to read spoilers here would.

Pity about EC-Dub, but I agree. Punk and Elijah really need to eb doing their stuff for the title imo. Vince is shit with the belt and Lashley... erm, LASHLEY.. O yeah, I remember that guy. He was on RAW full time.... BNar jumping thru a cage of course.

[AdrianM]

i'd gone a couple of weeks without watching WWE and watched Raw this week, and really enjoyed it. Granted, I didn't bother with the main event, but RVD vs Orton was awesome (RVD's selling was perfect), I really liked Carlito-Flair, (loved the backcracker on Torrie) and the 4 on 4 match was really good 2 (loved Nitro selling the ddt). Even the divas battle royal was ok.

so yeah, I liked Raw this week. But i agree that it sucks that they fired Ariel...all of a sudden I've lost interest in Kevin Thorne, go figure...