McMahon 'Death' Storyline

[Mercury Bullet]

I posted this as a reply to another topic. But I wanted to get it out for people to read more in case you didn't browse that one. I know a lot of people are getting upset with the Vince is Dead storyline because it's a slap in the face to Eddie and Owen, or anybody else that has died thats been involved in wrestling. This is just what I have to say about it.

I would have more of a problem if they didn't acknowledge it as legit. They need to have interviews with people sharing memories, ringing the bell, the need to get some VKM armbands on too. The more you think about it, this is NOT a slap in the face to Eddie or Owen or anybody that has ever died. This is a completely seperate instance and we, as the viewers, have to understand that and seperate that. Seperate reality from TV, it isn't really that difficult.

The same crowd of people that will piss and moan about how awful and disrespectful this is, I'm sure are the same people who grind their teeth everytime they hear a news reporter blame GTA for a school shooting. Seperating fiction from reality, thats all it is. We KNOW Mr. McMahon ISN'T dead. But it's a goddamn storyline and we can come to terms with it without having a hissy-fit.

Again, this is a GODDAMN STORY. It's FICTION. Everytime someone gets gunned down in an action movie it isn't a slap in the face to anyone who has ever been shot and killed. This is the same thing and I think people need to step back and look at the situation.

[NoRoolz]

Agreed.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Only thing that bugged me was the 10 bell salute, other than that I think it's a great storyline.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I like the 10 bell salute, only because the fans booed like crazy. That'll add some fire to his return, whenever that may be.

[IC Champion]

I like the 10 bell salute, only because the fans booed like crazy. That'll add some fire to his return, whenever that may be.
GOD DAMN IT, HEs DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111

[Mercury Bullet]

I like the 10 bell salute, only because the fans booed like crazy.

:yes:

Yeh, that was pretty great.

[Jordan]

Grow some balls you fucking pussy, its a god damn storyline.

[Kane Knight]

When movies where people get gunned down also deal with people who get gunned down in real life in the exact same fashion, we'll talk.

[Mercury Bullet]

Grow some balls you fucking pussy, its a god damn storyline.

Where you telling that to me? Because that was my point.

When movies where people get gunned down also deal with people who get gunned down in real life in the exact same fashion, we'll talk.

What about movies featuring gang violence, drive bys, etc. That stuff happens in real life. But we shouldn't stop having movies with that kind of violence. It isn't a slap in the face to anybody killed in a drive-by when they show a drive-by in a film or on TV.

[Jordan]

My bad I didn't even take the time to read your whole post, I figured it was a typical thread etc... sorry man.

[Kane Knight]

What about movies featuring gang violence, drive bys, etc. That stuff happens in real life. But we shouldn't stop having movies with that kind of violence. It isn't a slap in the face to anybody killed in a drive-by when they show a drive-by in a film or on TV.

"Happens in real life" is different, though.

When's the last time you saw a real death on Lost, or 24?

[Mercury Bullet]

I don't watch much of either show but haven't people been shot and killed on both of those shows? A shooting is a very real death. And I can see the point of, people aren't just roaming around in the jungle killing each other. But, in concept, its the same. A shooting is a shooting whether it be in the jungle or on the streets.

Also, didn't the president get assassinated on 24? That's a legit real life issue.

[Rammsteinmad]

I agree with the original post. Further more I don't think they should drop it suddenly due to Sherri's death. In all fairness I'm not really interested in the death storyline, and the timing is absolutely awful, but it'd be even more stupid if they just drop it.

Besides, like MB said, it's a storyline. It's fictional. People die all the time. Sensational Sherri passing away this week shouldn't be cause for them to drop the storyline.

[Mercury Bullet]

The recent death of Sherri makes me really worried they are just going to can the angle ASAP, which I hope not. I'm not even saying this is like OMGZ GREATEST ANGLE EVERRRR!!!! I'm pretty indifferent towards it, I thought it was cheesy but at least its something new.

But again, to reiterate, 90% (if not more) of the wrestling audience knows it isn't "real". Just like they know Bad Boys isn't real. The Godfather isn't real. 24 isn't real. They might have realistic death's, but realistic and real are different things. WWE programming is dramatic/soap opera-esque and conventionally, programs of the same genre have had deaths occur as part of their stories. At the same time, members of their cast may have actually died in real life. Everybody understood the difference (or should have, anyway) and this situation is no different.

[Kane Knight]

I don't watch much of either show but haven't people been shot and killed on both of those shows? A shooting is a very real death. And I can see the point of, people aren't just roaming around in the jungle killing each other. But, in concept, its the same. A shooting is a shooting whether it be in the jungle or on the streets.

Also, didn't the president get assassinated on 24? That's a legit real life issue.

...Are you retarded?

[Kane Knight]

Did they show a real president get assassinated on 24? Or did they have anyone really get shot on Lost?

If these have happened, I apologise humbly. If not, I repeat...

...Are you retarded?

[Mercury Bullet]

...Are you retarded?

All I said was that realistic deaths occur all over television and theater, thus, the WWE having a realistic death scene shouldn't be misconstrued as insulting, derogatory, or anything else that some people have seen it as. What the WWE showed is no different than anything else.

That makes me retarded?

"Mr. McMahon" while he is the real life owner of the company, was also a performer on the show. His character was killed. So...how is that any different?

[Mercury Bullet]

Did they show a real president get assassinated on 24? Or did they have anyone really get shot on Lost?

Did they show Vince McMahon REALLY get killed on Raw? Or did they show his character killed in a storyline?

[Kane Knight]

If you didn't throw in Eddie Guerrero, that might be accurate. Since your original statement regarded the comparrison to Eddie and Owen, it's not accurate. It's retarded.

[Mercury Bullet]

Eddie and Owen we're not killed on television (Owen did die via an accident, NOT storyline). It's not even the same thing, and that is my point as to why people shouldn't be upset over it.

[Kane Knight]

Did they show Vince McMahon REALLY get killed on Raw? Or did they show his character killed in a storyline?

They showed his character killed off in a storyline. But again, you're thinking too linear. And if you weren't the one defending it as being different from Eddie and Owen based on it being fiction (While fictional shows do not stop for real world deaths, but WWE did)....

[Kane Knight]

Eddie and Owen we're not killed on television (Owen did die via an accident, NOT storyline). It's not even the same thing, and that is my point as to why people shouldn't be upset over it.

They don't need to be killed on TV. Owen's death occurred because of what happened on a PPV, which I'd say is on TV enough to make your statement false, but that point is still moot. These tributes are identical to those which happened with real deaths. Eddie and Owen were not gimmicks, they were corpses.

I'm not even disagreeing with yo, but the arument that it's TV (despite the portions of the show which are real and deal with real world issues) is utterly, completely, fucking retarded.

[Mercury Bullet]

The PPV Owen was killed at kept going. The Raw after Eddie's death was on air.

[Kane Knight]

The PPV Owen was killed at kept going. The Raw after Eddie's death was on air.

...And?

[Mercury Bullet]

They don't need to be killed on TV. Owen's death occurred because of what happened on a PPV, which I'd say is on TV enough to make your statement false, but that point is still moot. These tributes are identical to those which happened with real deaths. Eddie and Owen were not gimmicks, they were corpses.

I'm not even disagreeing with yo, but the arument that it's TV (despite the portions of the show which are real and deal with real world issues) is utterly, completely, fucking retarded.

Most TV shows deal with some sort of real world issues, doesn't make them real. Yes, Owen and Eddie really died in real life away from the storylines and writing of the show. Then the WWE paid tribute to them on WWE television. The arguement that it's not the same because Vince's death is for "TV" is hardly retarded, it's completely valid. Everyone is aware that Owen's and Eddie's death were not storylines and they happened in real life. Vince's death is clearly storyline related and meant to fit into their television programming and progress the story. Thus, making it entirely different than the deaths of Owen and Eddie, and hardly a slap in the face of either of them.

[Mercury Bullet]

...And?
You said the WWE stopped for real world deaths. They didn't. In fact the show Owen was killed at didn't stop. I have a feeling if a cast member on Lost was killed on the set, they would probably stop filming.

[Kane Knight]

Most TV shows deal with some sort of real world issues, doesn't make them real.

Which again, is missing the point in favor of a conclusion you would rather draw.

[Kane Knight]

You said the WWE stopped for real world deaths. They didn't. In fact the show Owen was killed at didn't stop. I have a feeling if a cast member on Lost was killed on the set, they would probably stop filming.

Fucking moron.

"Stopped" doesn't immediately mean thateverything ceased. I'm not saying they went off air or anything like that.

I'm out. Keep drawing your retarded conclusions of convenience.

[Mercury Bullet]

No, the point is that "realistic" events on scripted television do not make what is happening "real". Thats not a far-fetched conclussion.

[IC Champion]

So whats this argument about, and who stands where?

[Mercury Bullet]

We're going to have to agree to disagree. I understand your perspective on it, I just disagree with it and I'm pointing out why I disagree with it. Relax.

And I'm not going to call you a fucking moron or a retard for disagree-ing with me. Again, I understand your point, I think it is wrong, and I am just countering it. You fail to acknowledge my points though and just say I'm jumping to conclusions basically. Whatever. End of discussion. I respect your opinion, but see it differently and thats the last I'll make of it.

[Mercury Bullet]

I believe that KK's argument is that I am wrong to contrast Eddie and Owen's deaths with Mr. McMahons, and his basis is that they are treating them as one in the same. And that my argument on script vs. reality is wrong because they are treating it all like reality.

But maybe he'll come back and explain it himself if I am interpreting it wrong.

[IC Champion]

Its a storyline, we all knows it not real, we all know he didnt really die, I was more upset that they would think we would buy it, so whats the big deal?

[Mercury Bullet]

My original post was just directed at people for compaining that this storyline was insulting to Eddie Guerrero or Owen Hart.

I don't think the issues are at all the same and so being upset over that is an invalid argument.

[IC Champion]

I think people just wanted to again make McMahon seem evil for going through with this storyline, and As for Eddie, its a little late to care now, that shipped sailed two years ago when like I said, His Wife, Boss, and bestfriend rode his legacy as far as it would go.

[Mercury Bullet]

Yeh, and that is much more of a slap in the face than treating VKM's death as if it were legit.

[IC Champion]

Yes it is, and if they didnt treat it like it was legit, most of the same people would complain that they didnt take it seriously, and that it wasnt being done properly.

[Mercury Bullet]

...if they didnt treat it like it was legit, most of the same people would complain that they didnt take it seriously, and that it wasnt being done properly.

Word...:y:

They would be slamming this angle for NOT being treated legitametly and thus, making it look fake, weak, and stupid.

[IC Champion]

Personally, I think WCW and then latter, WWE, killed Kayfabe, and now when they do somethin like this, you have to expect these reactions.

[TerranRich]

Oh no, Kane Knight's using retarded logic again?

*sigh*

Movies and shows depict gang violence, murders, etc...things that happen in real life. There have also been instances where people have died on television, usually because it was live. I know of one instance where somebody attempted to light himself on fire on a (live?) broadcast, but was stopped. We see and hear about gang violence, murders, etc., on the news all the time. They're not going to show it, simply because there's no need to.

Now, onto wrestling...

Yes, real deaths have happened in wrestling. I can't recall any of them that happened live on TV, or on a PPV event, for the entire world to see, however. They cut away, dump the feed, etc.

See where I'm going with this?

Wrestling deaths have happened, but rarely shown to TV viewers. Almost as rarely as real deaths live on TV news programs.

I really don't see the argument here. A storyline about a death is perfectly fine IMO. In fact, I'm surprised it took this long to occur. Owen Hart, Eddie Guerrero, et al have nothing to do with this. It's as silly as saying that violence shouldn't exist in movies because it happens in real life. Give me a break.

[Jordan]

KK stop being a bitch.

[RVDmark]

When movies where people get gunned down also deal with people who get gunned down in real life in the exact same fashion, we'll talk.
Its not the exact same way at all though. This was an obviously staged storyline in the wrestling business. A business that Eddie and Owen both lived for and I don't think they would see it that way. If vince did a storyline where someone died falling from the rafters or dying from drug related cardio problems then yeah I think Vince would have gone too far.

But in all honesty only the truly stupid or naive still believe that its all real and the rest of us should be allowed to watch Vince blow himself up for entertainment. People have been saying Vince should get out of the spotlight for a long while now, lets enjoy that for a bit.

[#1-norm-fan]

Okay... KK is basically saying that since movies and other TV shows don't deal with real deaths like WWE did Eddie and Owen, then the fact that they depict scripted deaths is acceptable. I see his point. I don't really understand why people are not understanding what he's saying there. At the same time, while I was going to half agree with him, I started thinking about a couple things.

Let's face it, WWE HAD to deal with Eddie and Owen's death the way they did because unlike characters on any other TV show who can just be written out if the actor dies, they are one and the same with their "character"... that's just the way it is. When a wrestler dies, a wrestler dies, not "the actor portraying the wrestler." I really don't think that just because of that fact, it is out of bounds to do the same in a storyline. While it's obviously a much more extreme example, if someone suffers a terrible leg injury one week, wouldn't be okay a few months later for someone to suffer one in a storyline?

Basically, pro wrestling is a form of entertainment that deals with real life more than any and therefore, when something tragic happens in real life, it must be dealt with in a real manner but storylines need to be dealt with in the same way... that realism is what people love about wrestling. That's just the way it is.

[Jordan]

Basically, pro wrestling is a form of entertainment that deals with real life more than any and therefore, when something tragic happens in real life, it must be dealt with in a real manner but storylines need to be dealt with in the same way... that realism is what people love about wrestling. That's just the way it is.

Respect

[FourFifty]

Basically, pro wrestling is a form of entertainment that deals with real life more than any and therefore, when something tragic happens in real life, it must be dealt with in a real manner but storylines need to be dealt with in the same way... that realism is what people love about wrestling. That's just the way it is.

So can someone explain to me the following?

Papa Shango?
The Undertaker?
Mankind/Cactus Jack/Dude Love/Mick Foley?
The mental problems Big Vis should have?
The Yeti?
Kane's "scared face"?

If I wanted it to be real I'd watch UFC and the news. It's drama, it's a story, and I enjoy it. Hell, I'm kinda hoping that at WrestleMania 24 Vince comes back saying he's not dead, and that he staged the whole thing to get some needed time off.:rofl:

[FourFifty]

Which'll turn into a great fued with Shane, because by this time Shane became the boss, but it's Vince's company, but Vince left his share of stock to Steph who was the only one in on it who gladly gave it back to Vince!
It'd work!

[IC Champion]

Which'll turn into a great fued with Shane, because by this time Shane became the boss, but it's Vince's company, but Vince left his share of stock to Steph who was the only one in on it who gladly gave it back to Vince!
It'd work!
.........:shifty:







*post*

[FourFifty]

See! That man knows what's going on!

[IC Champion]

See! There you have it!

[FourFifty]

All Vince needs to do is during some filler match at WM24 strut on out to the ring, explain himself, and then say *post*

[IC Champion]

All Vince needs to do is during some filler match at WM24 strut on out to the ring, explain himself, and then say *post*
Amen.

[TerranRich]

I would ROFL