DISCUSSION - So why was Rob Van Dam never pushed as a main-eventer?

[Heyman]

DISCUSSION - So why was Rob Van Dam never pushed as a main-eventer?

Triple H held him down?!?!??!!

While one could make a plausible case for this, you also have to take into account that Brock Lesnar was pushed as a main-eventer. Why didn't Triple H hold Lesnar down here? (assuming that Triple H plays a role in holding down wrestlers).

Lack of Wrestling skills?

RVD may not be the best technical wrestler in the business (and he is fairly sloppy at times), but neither was Hulk Hogan or Kevin Nash. Steve Austin was a mediocre wrestler when he first won the title. Do I even have to mention the Big Show? Taker won't be confused with Dean Malenko anytime soon either.

RVD is not a "homegrown" WWE talent

-Was Jericho a homegrown talent? Is Benoit? Is Eddie Guerrero? What about Goldberg?

RVD has sub-par mic skills

Lesnar's mic skills are laughable. Big Show sounds pretty gay as well.


RVD was a huge star back in the day, but he's past his peak now

As opposed to guys like SHawn Michaels, Triple H, Goldberg, Hogan, and Undertaker?....all of which have had world title runs within the last couple of years.


RVD is not a lockerroom leader........and therefore, will not have the "respect" of wrestlers backstage?????

As opposed to Goldberg? Triple H is probably respected a hellluva lot more than people on here give credit, but how many people actually like the guy? Would people feel any different towards RVD?


WHAT IS A LEGITIMATE EXCUSE FOR NOT LETTING RVD MAIN-EVENT?!?!? :rant:

[Funky Fly]

your guess is as good as mine. Summer 2001 was a waste. RVD was so over then.

[Rock Bottom]

Because Rob Van Dam is Willie the Worker!

[BasicThuganomics]

dude, he nearly killed HHH when he did the frogsplash off of the Elimination chamber!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He should have been fired for that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jk, no good excuse at all...

[The CyNick]

Before I get into RVD, I had to address the HHH-Lesnar thing. HHH did actually do a number on Lesnar. Hunter was the one who convinced Vince to create a second World Title. Why? Well it was Hunter's turn to do a JOB to Lesnar. If you look at the guys Brock went through, Hunter was likely going to be next in line after Brock finished with Taker. However, Hunter didn't like that idea, and knew he couldn't lobby to actually beat Brock so early in his title run, so he swered him out of being Undisputed Champion. If you look at the PPV numbers, that did a real number to Lesnar as a draw.

As for RVD, I think the answer is all of the above, excpet I dont think Hunter had much of a say at least in his first missed push. Why RVD didn't get pushed in the Fall of '01 will always be a mystery to me. At that time they were desperate to create a new babyface who could fued with the heel Austin. They knew HHH wasn't coming back till the new year, so RVD would have been a great choice to run with the ball. But that never happened.

I think it was in part because he wasn't a WWE creation, it was in part because he didn't 'know how to work the WWE main event stlye', he hurt people in the ring, and yeah he cant cut a promo. All of these things contributed to his lack of push.

Oddly enough the next year they seemed to have another golden opportunity to push Mr PPV, but again balked. The second time was all because of HHH. RVD would have made a great choice for champion, especially since Hunter was handed the championship, and having RVD beat him clean in the ring would have legitimized the title somewhat. However, as Hunter always seems to do, he avoided doing a JOB, and kept the title around his waist.

Now RVD is just a guy people pop for, but really dont care about, maybe he could be revived if he was moved over to SD, but his various actions over the years has made it a certainty that he will never get pushed in the WWE.

Its a sad, missed opportunity, but hey its Vince's money to piss away I guess.

[Innovator]

I'm surprised RVD is alive if he was Willie the Worker, he was on the internet after all

[Mr. Nerfect]

Well I for one think RVD is majorly overrated. I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I think Hardcore Holly is a safer worker than RVD by far. How many people has Holly injured? Zip from what I remember. RVD? Quite a lot. Triple H for one.

I don't mind RVD, but other than a bit of fan base, RVD, IMO, doesn't have much going for him. Great guy, great talent, but I just don't see him as main event material, IMO.

[John la Rock]

I think it's because RVD can only work hardcore matches. I hate watching him without chairs or ladders.

[BasicThuganomics]

Well I for one think RVD is majorly overrated. I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I think Hardcore Holly is a safer worker than RVD by far. How many people has Holly injured? Zip from what I remember. RVD? Quite a lot. Triple H for one.

I don't mind RVD, but other than a bit of fan base, RVD, IMO, doesn't have much going for him. Great guy, great talent, but I just don't see him as main event material, IMO.


You're right....


You should get flamed for comparing RVD to Holly. Did you forget when Holly beat the shit outta Matt for no good reason at all? RVD didn't injure people on purpose, he was just stiff in the ring. Holly went in there with the goal of kicking the crap out of a rookie that he had no respect for because "he isn't paying his dues" Holly is a fu</>cking asshole IMO.

[Nowhere Man]

Oh, and not to mention that RVD is still pretty hugely over even without the main-event push, while Hardcore Holly gets very, VERY mild reactions at the very best (even when he was in his home state of Alabama, we just didn't give a fu</>ck) Too stiff or not, Van Dam's a hundred times more entertaining than Holly.

[Dave Youell]

If RVD was one smackdown he's be main eventing i swear. I say trade him for taker and have Eddie Vs RVD (there IC matches were ok, but both could do alot more with each other) RVD when pushed correctly would be huge, the only thing holding RVD back is RVD himself, he stands by his morals (which i respect) but it's not going to help him get far in the company (if that is what he wants to do). I'm mainly reffering to his outbursts on Radio shows several months ago, it's seems to me that since he did those radio shows and he signed a new contract they just took the IC belt back off him and continued to bury him.

Now the tag team belt thing is just a flat out joke, it's no where near a push, it's just the writers saying we want Booker and RVD in mania but we don't know how.

Send him to smackdown and with heymans influence for writing he should be main eventing by fall, if not sooner

[Mikey]

A man with 3 letters in his name is holding him back and those letters arent R...V...D

Rob Van Dam in an interveiw in 2003

[Dave Youell]

A man with 3 letters in his name is holding him back and those letters arent R...V...D

Rob Van Dam in an interveiw in 2003
but saying that stuff outloud isn't going to do him any favours though

[Mikey]

but saying that stuff outloud isn't going to do him any favours though


Or most of the other stuff he has said about why he hasnt got pushed wont either

[The Dub]

If RVD was one smackdown he's be main eventing i swear. I say trade him for taker and have Eddie Vs RVD (there IC matches were ok, but both could do alot more with each other) RVD when pushed correctly would be huge, the only thing holding RVD back is RVD himself, he stands by his morals (which i respect) but it's not going to help him get far in the company (if that is what he wants to do). I'm mainly reffering to his outbursts on Radio shows several months ago, it's seems to me that since he did those radio shows and he signed a new contract they just took the IC belt back off him and continued to bury him.

Now the tag team belt thing is just a flat out joke, it's no where near a push, it's just the writers saying we want Booker and RVD in mania but we don't know how.

Send him to smackdown and with heymans influence for writing he should be main eventing by fall, if not sooner
It's a sad world when a guy gets held back for standing by his morals. You have RVD and Booker T. as tag champs when both should be, if booked right, where HHH and HBK are. I'm still kinda upset about how HHH's feuds with these two came to a head. HHH comes out on top while pushing them seemed to be all for nothing.

The tag team belts are a joke. When the tag team division is stale like it is right now, they just put it on a couple guys who are largely popular but have no chance of getting a World title shot.

He'd definitely main-event on SmackDown!, I agree. The only reason why they probably wouldn't do it is because he and Eddie Guerrero have the same finisher. They used that as a basis for their feud over the IC belt, but Eddie eventually went to SmackDown!

[blake639raw]

Not trying to sound cliche' , but it probably is because of Trips. From what I understand, they wanted to put the belt on RVD, but HHH convinced the bookers that RVD wasn't "main event material." :roll:

[Kane Knight]

Not trying to sound cliche' , but it probably is because of Trips. From what I understand, they wanted to put the belt on RVD, but HHH convinced the bookers that RVD wasn't "main event material." :roll:

He's absolutely right.

I mean, the guy's over, talented, capable, and charismatic.

What kind of main event scene would that make for us?

[CBright7831]

http://raw.wwe.com/superstars/tripleh/images/hhh1.jpg

It's all about the game
And how you play it
All about control
And if you can take it

[The Icon of Elisim]

I'd say that its a combination of HHH and the fact that he doesn't have a true character to be in the mainevent scene. WWE was probably worried that if they gave him a title run back in 2002 (I'm thinking of the Raw after the survivor series elimation chamber where it was him and HBK and HHH interfered) that people would lose interest because he had no real character. RVD was solely over because of his wrestling ability, meaning that it would make it difficult to create realistic and entertaining main event angles.

[Heyman]

RVD was solely over because of his wrestling ability, meaning that it would make it difficult to create realistic and entertaining main event angles.

If this IS the case, then why are the WWE going to give Chris Benoit a world title reign within the next few months? (not that I have a problem with that!).

Also - Big Show was solely over because of his size. Still - this didn't stop the WWE from giving HIM two world title runs.

[BasicThuganomics]

RVD's just too high to give a shit about being a main eventer in the WWE probably.

Vince: Hey RVD, we're gonna give you the IC title for a couple of weeks for the 1000th time. You'll job to one of HHH's new buddies at the end of the month...
RVD: Hehe, dude for real? Awesome!!





Note: that was supposed to be funny, but it's not. Oh well.

[The Naitch]

RVD needs to have a that "stoner" gimmick. It will be hard to miss out on a potentially huge demographic

[MVP]

RAW really isn't the place for RVD. He can't earn a main event spot with Triple H, HBK, and Benoit (not complaining about him though). Hell even Jericho can't get a main event spot on RAW. Like Dave Youell said, a Taker/RVD trade would be perfect because then the Taker/Kane feud can be played out after Wrestlemania, and RVD can turn heel and feud with Eddie or John Cena.

Wouldn't you like to see RVD vs. John Cena in the near future?

I know I would, especially after their backstage angle at Royal Rumble where Cena punked out RVD. As I've said thousnads of times here, RVD should go back to the "Whole Damn Show" gimmick from ECW, go to Smackdown, and feud with Eddie Guerrero or John Cena.

[The Icon of Elisim]

If this IS the case, then why are the WWE going to give Chris Benoit a world title reign within the next few months? (not that I have a problem with that!).


Benoit is very different from RVD in terms of character. Benoit has an edge to his character and seriousness to him (which we aren't seeing and thus the reason I think that his reign will fail at this rate). RVD's character is too laid back to be taken seriously in the main event.

[The Duck]

RVD should and could of been main eventer in WWE, there's no doubt about it. The potential in his 'Whole F'n Show' character was limitless and if they had booked him in a similar vein to how Heyman had at least booked his character in ECW (over the top cocky, arrogant, exhibitionist) he could of been a major player. The fact is, RVD has not been given the chance to 'develop' as a character. His lines are written for him (when he's given any mic. time) and the company have never been truly behind him in terms of a push, instead opting for the odd 2-week excuse for one.

In my opinion, what Van Dam truly needs is a mouth-piece. Male managers/agents are by large an untapped resource in prgramming at the moment. If possible, I'd do my best to get Bill Alphonso in, hook the two up again (have Fonzy act as the way to Rob over the SD! where he'd thrive, or even bring him in with Rob on Raw and really kick-start his character - mouthing off about how Rob's been held down etc) and BAM, we have an original, interesting character who'd HAVE to be on TV. The combination had money written all over it in ECW, and the same methods on a different scale COULD still be successful.

Will it happen? **** no, but I enjoyed the 5 minutes of imagining IF it could happen. I'm a huge RVD mark and was excited as anyone when he came into WWE in Summer 2001. The waste Vince and booking team have made of such a character is incredible. Van Dam was ECW's biggest draw and developed a fan following and fan reaction within a few weeks effortlessly, that the majority of the roster couldn't generate in years. To see him curtain-jerking and acting as a job man for Orton pisses me off no end (don't get me wrong, I like Randy, but RVD jobbing to him should mean a hell of a lot more than it does).

;,(

[Heyman]

Benoit is very different from RVD in terms of character. Benoit has an edge to his character and seriousness to him (which we aren't seeing and thus the reason I think that his reign will fail at this rate). RVD's character is too laid back to be taken seriously in the main event.

I think that's an arguable point. In 2001 when the WWE teased the Austin/RVD feud, RVD came across as 'determined' and 'confident'. Same in 2002 when RVD fought Benoit at Summerslam.

Besides - Look how over RVD was in ECW. He was a very well respected champ in ECW. Think about it: For a company that had such little exposure (relative to WCW and the WWE), RVD was WAAAAY over.

[BasicThuganomics]

RVD should and could of been main eventer in WWE, there's no doubt about it. The potential in his 'Whole F'n Show' character was limitless and if they had booked him in a similar vein to how Heyman had at least booked his character in ECW (over the top cocky, arrogant, exhibitionist) he could of been a major player. The fact is, RVD has not been given the chance to 'develop' as a character. His lines are written for him (when he's given any mic. time) and the company have never been truly behind him in terms of a push, instead opting for the odd 2-week excuse for one.

In my opinion, what Van Dam truly needs is a mouth-piece. Male managers/agents are by large an untapped resource in prgramming at the moment. If possible, I'd do my best to get Bill Alphonso in, hook the two up again (have Fonzy act as the way to Rob over the SD! where he'd thrive, or even bring him in with Rob on Raw and really kick-start his character - mouthing off about how Rob's been held down etc) and BAM, we have an original, interesting character who'd HAVE to be on TV. The combination had money written all over it in ECW, and the same methods on a different scale COULD still be successful.

Will it happen? **** no, but I enjoyed the 5 minutes of imagining IF it could happen. I'm a huge RVD mark and was excited as anyone when he came into WWE in Summer 2001. The waste Vince and booking team have made of such a character is incredible. Van Dam was ECW's biggest draw and developed a fan following and fan reaction within a few weeks effortlessly, that the majority of the roster couldn't generate in years. To see him curtain-jerking and acting as a job man for Orton pisses me off no end (don't get me wrong, I like Randy, but RVD jobbing to him should mean a hell of a lot more than it does).

;,(


Just because it worked in ECW doesn't mean it would work in WWE...
The ECW fans were completely different than WWE's audience. Most of what worked in ECW just wouldn't work in WWE. RVD can get over very easily, all they have to do is give him a legitimate push he hasn't had one of those since he's entered the WWE. If that ever happens, then RVD will get himself over. Until then RVD is stuck where he is.

[MVP]

Just because it worked in ECW doesn't mean it would work in WWE...
The ECW fans were completely different than WWE's audience. Most of what worked in ECW just wouldn't work in WWE. RVD can get over very easily, all they have to do is give him a legitimate push he hasn't had one of those since he's entered the WWE. If that ever happens, then RVD will get himself over. Until then RVD is stuck where he is.WWE and legitimate push in the same sentence? :wtf:

[The Tool]

<shrug> I have never been that big on RVD. I have never really seen what everyone thought was so great about him. Not that i would care if he got a title reign, can't be any worse than the terminal boredom of The Game. As far as saying Big Show 'sounds pretty gay' on the mic. I gotta disagree. Big Show can be one of the funniest and entertaining on the mic. Far superior to RVD anyway, in my opinion at least.

[M-A-G]

Maybe he thinks he doing just fine the way he is and doesn't need to be pushed. And if that's the case, pass that shit he's smoking.

[Kane Knight]

Maybe he thinks he doing just fine the way he is and doesn't need to be pushed. And if that's the case, pass that shit he's smoking.

*LMAO*

[jessica rocks]

RAW really isn't the place for RVD. He can't earn a main event spot with Triple H, HBK, and Benoit (not complaining about him though). Hell even Jericho can't get a main event spot on RAW. Like Dave Youell said, a Taker/RVD trade would be perfect because then the Taker/Kane feud can be played out after Wrestlemania, and RVD can turn heel and feud with Eddie or John Cena.

Wouldn't you like to see RVD vs. John Cena in the near future?

I know I would, especially after their backstage angle at Royal Rumble where Cena punked out RVD. As I've said thousnads of times here, RVD should go back to the "Whole Damn Show" gimmick from ECW, go to Smackdown, and feud with Eddie Guerrero or John Cena.


You made a good point in RVD jumping to SmackDown, but RVD would not make a good heel. What would his "gimmick" be?? John Cena raided his stash?? Or Eddie wouldn't share his joint??

I mean he would not be a believable heel. He's been portrayed as the guy who doesn't give a **** and the fans will still cheer for him no matter what. But get him in a feud with a heel John Cena for a while would be a better move. Cena is definatly more believable as a heel that I think RVD would ever be. Even if he brought back the "whole f'n show" gimmick the fans will still give cheer for him.

[Funky Fly]

You made a good point in RVD jumping to SmackDown, but RVD would not make a good heel. What would his "gimmick" be?? John Cena raided his stash?? Or Eddie wouldn't share his joint??

I mean he would not be a believable heel. He's been portrayed as the guy who doesn't give a **** and the fans will still cheer for him no matter what. But get him in a feud with a heel John Cena for a while would be a better move. Cena is definatly more believable as a heel that I think RVD would ever be. Even if he brought back the "whole f'n show" gimmick the fans will still give cheer for him.
Did you ever watch ECW?

He can be one cocky sumbitch when he's heel.

[Mister Sinister]

Did you ever watch ECW?

He can be one cocky sumbitch when he's heel.

God I loved it when he and Sabu were Tag Team Champions, They Didn't exactly have problems with each other but were Always disagreeing over stuff.

And Plus, Rob Van Dam could use his other great Catchphase that very few people remember.

RVD: Do I have Piss on My Shirt?

[BasicThuganomics]

WWE and legitimate push in the same sentence? :wtf:

Yeah I know what you mean, but seriously, when has RVD been given a real chance as a main eventer. To people who say that they don't know how to get RVD to be over enough to be a main eventer, I will say again....
ACTUALLY GIVE HIM A REAL PUSH AND MAKE HIM LOOK GOOD. He doesn't need to switch brands, he doesn't need to have his old manager from ECW (that is a bad idea, that guy would never be accepted by WWE fans), he doesn't need to turn heel, he just needs to actually be pushed. Look at what happens when wrestlers get GOOD pushes:
Brock Lesnar: Made to look unstoppable at first and was a believable main eventer in no time
Eddie Geurrero: He has been made to look like he is capable of beating anybody, his push to the title might have been rushed after his fued with Chavo, but he was made to look very strong against Lesnar, and he is now a credible champ!
Chris Benoit: Well, if he doesn't get screwed by HHH or HBK or whatever, then fans will totally be behind him. Going into the Rumble, and for a couple of weeks afterwards, fans were definately behind Benoit. His push has been kinda screwed up, but it was definately working at first before the Triple Threat crap got in the way.
Randy Orton: He is well on his way to being a main eventer in about a year's time. He is going over people when it counts and is definately going to be a credible main event heel sometime down the road.

I've said this before, but the key to making main eventers is simple, just fu</>cking give them a real push! Don't make them have to cheat to win every single match they are in. Don't make them run away everytime a confrontation occurs. Just make them look good, and give them clean victories as often as possible against people that are already established. RVD hasn't had this happen yet. Other stuff, such as look, charisma, and mic skills help, but none of that matters when they are given a shitty push, and are made to look weak. I swear if RVD had the kind of push that Holly received up until Royal Rumble, he would be one of the most over guys in the WWE in no time.

Ok I think my rant is done with for now.....

[jessica rocks]

Did you ever watch ECW?

He can be one cocky sumbitch when he's heel.


As much as i could.

I'm not talking ECW though. Im just saying with the WWF fans he's too over as a face to ever become a believable heel. Hell I'll be the first to mark out if he ever brings back the "Whole F'n Show" gimmick back but I just dont see the fans buying into a "bad ass" RVD since he has been pushed so much as the "im a pot smoking i dont give a damn" face.

[Rock Bottom]

Ironically, RVD actually wins alot. But yeah, it's never really against important people.

[jessica rocks]

If RVD can put 500 people in the seats it's good enough for WWE :y:

[Mr.Violent J]

I remember.... the first time I saw RVD was at ECW's very first PPV. It was supposed to be Chris Candido vs then rookie Lance Storm. Candido was injured so RVD took his place. After the match, which in all fairness was not that great (Storm still being pretty green and the match was basically just supposed to be a time filler) RVD got on the mic and said "I was obviously chosen as a second line wrestler, RVD is no second line anything". It was the way that he said it you knew he was a heel even if you had never seen him before yet the people still cheered him. Why? Yes ECW crowds are very different from WWE crowds. Never before had I seen a crowd give a standing ovation to a heel and his baby face challenger after a paced exchange of reversal's. RVD was a heel, but he was cheered for his ability.

I think the WWE fans would be along the same lines if RVD was made into a heel. He would still be cheered because of his ability. But that leads to the next point.... WWE has a different style of wrestling than ECW to be sure. WWE is more slow paced, "safer", and is more like watching a show than watching wrestling. This is why RVD's heel character will not work in WWE. RVD excells when he is allowed to do over the top manuevers at a fast pace for 20 minutes. WWE matches have him working slow paced matches for 7-10 minutes. It's a conflict in styles here.

Even if the WWE said "Ok Rob, go out and do all your dare devil moves, show us all of your martial arts expertise, show us all you CAN mat wrestle", you still have to think about the other WWE superstars. Would they be willing to go out and have a match with RVD. Would they be able to keep up with RVD? IS there any wrestler in the current WWE locker room that can put on the high calibur match that we ECW fans would expect to see? The answer is no. Even if RVD could do what he used to do in ECW, who is he going to do it with? HHH? Perhaps Lesnar? Or even Angle for that matter? Guerrero has become more of a mat wrestler than a high flyer since he came to WWE. Rey? No, he's too small to be able to work with RVD when he goes sommersaulting into the 3rd row.

It takes 2 people to wrestle a match. And unfortunately no matter how bad I, or anyone else, want to see the ECW RVD do what he can do lets face facts that there is no one in the WWE that he can do it with.

[Apocolyptik1]

What I dont understand is why everyone always talks about the guy who has been with the same stale gimmick since he got to the WWE and totally forget about one of the greatest talents that the WWE isnt using at all....

Lance Storm, yea I said it. That mofo is badass. Probably the best in ring worker I have seen in a long time. If they ever find him the right angle, god he could be awesome. I miss the maple leaf :(

I will be the first American to admit it. Canadian wrestlers are better then American wrestlers, especially ones coming out of the Dungeon.

[The CyNick]

What I dont understand is why everyone always talks about the guy who has been with the same stale gimmick since he got to the WWE and totally forget about one of the greatest talents that the WWE isnt using at all....

Lance Storm, yea I said it. That mofo is badass. Probably the best in ring worker I have seen in a long time. If they ever find him the right angle, god he could be awesome. I miss the maple leaf :(

I will be the first American to admit it. Canadian wrestlers are better then American wrestlers, especially ones coming out of the Dungeon.

Most Canadians are good because they had Bret Hart as a role model. Kurt Angle is probably better than any CDN wrestler, so you guys have him. How about we trade you Test for him?

[Apocolyptik1]

Test for Kurt Angle. I gotta put some serious thought into it. Hmm wait no I dont. NO!

[Kane Knight]

Test for Kurt Angle. I gotta put some serious thought into it. Hmm wait no I dont. NO!

Yeah, hough sadly, I know a couple people who'd do it.

[Kane Knight]

RVD was never pushed because he didn't <s>rim vince and the creative staff on a regular basis</s>Pay his dues.