I'm watchin' Nancy Grace...

[BigDaddyCool]

And Merc Mero and Steve Blackman are on talking about the Benoit thing, blah blah blah.

Anyhow, Blackman is the fuckin' man. And Mero is a candy ass bitch.

[BigDaddyCool]

Mero is saying it is the wrestling industry's fault. Blackman is saying it is personal decision.

Blackman > Mero.

[Arnold HamNegger]

Man, people really are coming out of the woodwork to use this tragedy to get their mug on tv again.

I didn't even know Mero was still alive.

[James Steele]

Mero looks like a fucking tranny.

[James Steele]

Also, Blackman is the man.

[Xero]

Man, people really are coming out of the woodwork to use this tragedy to get their mug on tv again.
I can't wait for Max Mini.

"Steroids stunted my growth!"

[Kane Knight]

They're both right.

[Arnold HamNegger]

I can't wait for Max Mini.

"Steroids stunted my growth!"

:lol:

Doink: "Steroids turned my hair green."

[IC Champion]

They're both right.
Agreed.

[Mr. JL]

They're both white.

Agreed.

[Blitz]

lol Blackman.

[McLegend]

Nash is on fox news now

[McLegend]

I think it was taped earlier

[Arnold HamNegger]

Nash is on fox news now

#1 draw in Fox News history.

[CSL]

Also, Blackman is the man.

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:yes:

[McLegend]

lol Blackman and Mero are going at it right now.

[FourFifty]

Just go on and see my post about Abyss talking.

[The Optimist]

Blackman > Mero.That's one of the core beliefs in my religion.

[Theo Dious]

When Mero shut the fuck up and Blackman was allowed to speak, Blackman owned his ass.

I loved this though:

Mero: We've been given an opportunity to make a difference!

A) Nobody listens to you, ex-Mr. Sable.
B) Even if someone did, what are you going to do, force them to stop doing drugs?

[Kane Knight]

B) Even if someone did, what are you going to do, force them to stop doing drugs?

Yes. Raising awareness to a problem is a bad thing.

[BigDaddyCool]

While Marc Mero is right about raising awareness to the problems, he is coming off as a complete alarmist. Saying the industry is evil, and that it forces everyone to do drugs and so on and so forth.

Though, I did like how Mero said it was the industry as a whole, not just WWE. And when the bitch who was sitting in for Nancy Grace kept trying to say WWE is the big dog or whatever, Mero kept to his guns as said it was all of wrestling, not just WWE.

[Theo Dious]

Awareness is great, I just REALLY don't think that Mero is the person to do it. I think he's grabbing for some time in the sun that isn't all bound up with "I used to boink that chick that was in Playboy." I also have doubts about his contention that he wasn't on steroids when he worked for Vince. Blackman I feel I can trust, though I'm not sure why. He just seems more believable to me.

BTW, can we have like an official "This person was on TV talking about Benoit" thread so we don't keep having these every time someone sticks their nose on TV?

[Theo Dious]

As an aside, Blackman could probably kill Mero seven times before he hit the ground.

[BigDaddyCool]

Awareness is great, I just REALLY don't think that Mero is the person to do it. I think he's grabbing for some time in the sun that isn't all bound up with "I used to boink that chick that was in Playboy." I also have doubts about his contention that he wasn't on steroids when he worked for Vince. Blackman I feel I can trust, though I'm not sure why. He just seems more believable to me.

BTW, can we have like an official "This person was on TV talking about Benoit" thread so we don't keep having these every time someone sticks their nose on TV?

These are probly why you can trust Blackman:

1. You are a black man, even though Steve is white, his name is Blackman, so you can relate to him more. :roll:

2. Merc Mero looks like a tranny now, and has a wierd voice. Blackman still looks exactly the same as he always has.

3. Blackman only spoke for himself, Mero was making broad generaliztions and talking for every wrestler ever (plus seemed bitter).

4. We know Mero was talking about how many families are torn apart by wrestling. And I can't help but think he brought that up because he is divorced.

5. Blackman was being respectful, Mero was being rude and wouldn't let Blackman finish a thought and even started verbally attacking Blackman.

[Stickman]

It took me forever to figure out that was Marc Mero as I missed the opening. Blackman came across very well and Mero came across as a homosexual

[IC Champion]

Mero's black? He looks like some sort of mixed breed.

[IC Champion]

2. Merc Mero looks like a tranny now, and has a wierd voice. Blackman still looks exactly the same as he always has.

He also looks a fraction of his old size, and appears to have waxed his eye brows, my mother pointed that to out to me.

Blackman didnt abuse roids and drugs his whole career, where as Mero was probably a heavy drug user, and liked to shoot up those hormones.

[RP]

Marc Mero has always looked like a faggot. He's a habitual cock sucker.

[Zeeboe]

You must be watching a repeat because I posted the interview days and days ago. Here it is again for those of you who missed it.

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[Arnold HamNegger]

Mero looks like "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy, The Fonze addition."

[Skippord]

I love Steve Blackman right now

[Skippord]

Mero looks like a fucking tranny.
Agreed

[BigDaddyCool]

Dave Metzler is ugly.

[BigDaddyCool]

I just saw the latest Nancy Grace with Fit Finlay v. Marc Mero. Finlay owned Mero and Grace. Every time Finlay answered their questions and allegation they completely switched their stories.

They brought up that list of the 104 wrestlers that died in the past 10 years and said they all died from drugs and steriods. Finlay asserted that only 3 died while under WWE contract, with one committing suicide, one dying in a tragic accident, and heart attack so they WWE Health and Wellness program had nothing to do with the rest of the deaths. Then you got guys on the list like Mike Awesome who commited suicide and John Tenta who had cancer. While that still an awfully big list...I submit that CNN and Time Warner killed the rest.

[FourFifty]

So has anyone who has spoken to the media mentioned that Mass Transit is on that list?
Seriously, I cannot take that 104 list seriously.


A lot of these deaths were not wrestling related. There are murders, the dude who died in the police raid, cancer..... and being Mass Transit.

I'd love to see Mass Transist's family go on the news and bitch about how wrestling killed his kid.

[BigDaddyCool]

So has anyone who has spoken to the media mentioned that Mass Transit is on that list?
Seriously, I cannot take that 104 list seriously.


A lot of these deaths were not wrestling related. There are murders, the dude who died in the police raid, cancer..... and being Mass Transit.

I'd love to see Mass Transist's family go on the news and bitch about how wrestling killed his kid.

What is this Mass Transist stuff?

Also, most of the guys that died from drugs and steriod related heart attacks spent most of their careers in WCW, which at the same time was part of the CNN toward. So by Nancy Grace logic, it is her fault.

[Arnold HamNegger]

What is this Mass Transist stuff?

That's that underaged kid that got fucked up by New Jack in ECW, then later killed himslef at the age of 22.

[Loose Cannon]

I just saw the latest Nancy Grace with Fit Finlay v. Marc Mero. Finlay owned Mero and Grace. Every time Finlay answered their questions and allegation they completely switched their stories.

They brought up that list of the 104 wrestlers that died in the past 10 years and said they all died from drugs and steriods. Finlay asserted that only 3 died while under WWE contract, with one committing suicide, one dying in a tragic accident, and heart attack so they WWE Health and Wellness program had nothing to do with the rest of the deaths..

Well Finlay was wrong with his statement as well. 2 died of heart attack while under contract

[Loose Cannon]

Rude, Perfect, Bulldog, Guerrero, Bossman, Hawk, Hercules, Bad News, Crash Holly (all drug/heart attack related, all spent decent time with WWE)

[Arnold HamNegger]

Sweet, it's on again. Mero just came on.

[The Naitch]

lol Mero is on again. Round 2

[The Naitch]

Marc Mero sounds like Tony Robbins

[Arnold HamNegger]

This show is a freakin' trainwreck. How does this bitch have her own show and why is she even on TV? HORRIBLE. Hey Nancy, you don't come across as "in your face" or "controversial" when you yell and cut people off. You're an uninformed, ignorant, disgraceful member of the media.

In a world full of stupid people and blood thirsty rag queens, this is the Queen.

[BigDaddyCool]

Well Finlay was wrong with his statement as well. 2 died of heart attack while under contract

No, I was wrong, I misquoted Finlay.

[BigDaddyCool]

This show is a freakin' trainwreck. How does this bitch have her own show and why is she even on TV? HORRIBLE. Hey Nancy, you don't come across as "in your face" or "controversial" when you yell and cut people off. You're an uninformed, ignorant, disgraceful member of the media.

In a world full of stupid people and blood thirsty rag queens, this is the Queen.

That is it is obivous she keeps changing her story when she is wrong, and she does it so blantently it is impossible to tell what she was ever saying to the point she just looks dumb.

I mean, there is a way to make your oppenent look dumb even when they have an air tight case, she has a way of making herself look stupid when the person she is debating has an argument full of holes.

[Arnold HamNegger]

God, this is almost unbearable. It's not like this is a local news outlet that decided to give this lady a show on their network...this is the largest media outlet in the world! If I worked for CNN I'd be embarrassed to be associated with her.

[BigDaddyCool]

God, this is almost unbearable. It's not like this is a local news outlet that decided to give this lady a show on their network...this is the largest media outlet in the world! If I worked for CNN I'd be embarrassed to be associated with her.

Yeah, that is what you get from Ted Turner.

[Arnold HamNegger]

That is it is obivous she keeps changing her story when she is wrong, and she does it so blantently it is impossible to tell what she was ever saying to the point she just looks dumb.

I mean, there is a way to make your oppenent look dumb even when they have an air tight case, she has a way of making herself look stupid when the person she is debating has an argument full of holes.

Agreed. She just automatically has that crazed look in her eye before anyone even says anything, like just WAITING to argue for the sake of arguing. Her facial expressions just make you want to slap her.

[chrisat928]

I hate her. I hate her. I hate her.
She wouldn't let Finlay elaborate on his points.

[Arnold HamNegger]

Yeah, that is what you get from Ted Turner.

It's like Ted sat down with Nancy and watched old footage of "The Morton Downey JR. Show" and said, "I want you to do this!"

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[BigDaddyCool]

I hate her. I hate her. I hate her.
She wouldn't let Finlay elaborate on his points.

I loved the part when she started yealling at Finlay saying "Make your point." I would have marked out if Finlay jumped up and put her i the Celtic Knot then Hornswoggle would pop up from under the table and Finlay could throw him at Nancy. That would be awesome. It would prove a god damn thing, but it would be awesome.

[chrisat928]

While I was watching I was half expecting Hornswoggle to pop up in the coner of Finlays screen and just yell "SHADDUP!"

[James Steele]

Whoever that one HIDEOUS looking chick is...I want her dead. She is hideous looking, sounds like Freddy Kreuger massaging a chalkboard, and is just as much of a bitch as Nancy Grace is. The one with black glasses and looks like she has bell's palsy.

[KingofOldSchool]

Whoever that one HIDEOUS looking chick is...I want her dead. She is hideous looking, sounds like Freddy Kreuger massaging a chalkboard, and is just as much of a bitch as Nancy Grace is. The one with black glasses and looks like she has bell's palsy.

Don't talk about J.R. like that. :'(

[James Steele]

Don't talk about J.R. like that. :'(

I'd rather fuck J.R. than this chick.

[Rob]

I just saw the latest Nancy Grace with Fit Finlay v. Marc Mero. Finlay owned Mero and Grace. Every time Finlay answered their questions and allegation they completely switched their stories.

They brought up that list of the 104 wrestlers that died in the past 10 years and said they all died from drugs and steriods. Finlay asserted that only 3 died while under WWE contract, with one committing suicide, one dying in a tragic accident, and heart attack so they WWE Health and Wellness program had nothing to do with the rest of the deaths. Then you got guys on the list like Mike Awesome who commited suicide and John Tenta who had cancer. While that still an awfully big list...I submit that CNN and Time Warner killed the rest.

Bryan Alvarez COMPLETELY owned Finlay with a reply to one question.

[Kane Knight]

The fact is, merely arguing who died under WWE contract is pointless.

That's like saying someone didn't die because of tobacco because they didn't smoke the day they died.

[Rob]

Plus how many guys did Vince let go because of drug problems?

[Loose Cannon]

What was the question Rob?

[Rob]

Not a question. Vince McMahon takes no responsibility for anyone who died who wasn't working for him at the time. And even then he still doesn't take any responsibility no matter how minor. If you don't discourage drug use even though it's illegal and some wrestler worked for you for 10 years dies a week after you release him, how does the company not take any responsibility.

And I can't believe people are still shilling this wellness program. It's a fucking shame. Benoit's toxicology reports are gonna come back and he is gonna be full of drugs and enlarged muscles like the heart for example. And they said more than once that he PASSED a drug test this year.

[Loose Cannon]

No, I'm saying what was the question Alvarez replied to? I didn't see the interview. But yea, I agree with what your saying. Vince turns a blind eye to his roster, especially the top tier stars.

[Rob]

Hang on, I'll get the quote...

not the exact quote but close enough. Reposted from the F4W board


GRACE: ... if you have a prescription, that that will not save you. But according to Bryan Alvarez, it will save you.

FINLAY: No, it won`t. And what does he know? He`s never been in the doors of WWE. I`m there every single day. I`m on the road four days a week. I know what the policy is. I went through it, and I have a lot of talent with me that have gone through it. It`s garbage. It`s just pure speculation. There`s a definite strong in-force testing going on. And just because you got the script doesn`t mean you`re going to get away with it. Dr. Black may just turn around and say, That is -- I don`t -- I don`t accept it...

GRACE: Who`s Dr. Black?

FINLAY: ... and that`s it.

GRACE: Who`s Dr. Black?

FINLAY: Dr. Black is the doctor who has set this screening stuff up.

GRACE: OK.

FINLAY: It`s a whole -- he`s the head of it.

GRACE: OK, Bryan Alvarez, explain yourself.

ALVAREZ: I have taken this specifically from the WWE policy, and I talked to Jerry McDivett (ph), who is the WWE attorney, who explained the testosterone replacement therapy part of this.

[James Steele]

Where is the baseball bat? I wanna take a swing at the WWE piñata too!

[James Steele]

No, I'm saying what was the question Alvarez replied to? I didn't see the interview

Cut and dry: Alvarez explained the Wellness program. Finlay said he didn't know what the hell he was talking about because he hasn't ever been in WWE. Alvarez then said he was reading it from the WWE's press releases on its wellness policy.

[Loose Cannon]

that's why I can't take any WWE contracted wrestler serious on these shows right now.

[Rob]

You want a link?

[James Steele]

I can't take most of them seriously because they are talking out of their asses. All I know is that Chris Benoit probably did drugs and somehow he killed his wife,son, and himself in 3 days of horror. Bret and Jericho are the only ones who haven't come off with an agenda in this whole thing.

[Rob]

I don't think Lance Storm, Bryan Alvarez or Dave Meltzer have. Marc Mero might have an agenda but at least it's right.

[Loose Cannon]

yea, what's the link?

[James Steele]

I don't think Lance Storm, Bryan Alvarez or Dave Meltzer have. Marc Mero might have an agenda but at least it's right.

What show was Lance Storm on?

[McLegend]

Outside the lines

[James Steele]

Meltzer and Alvarez are constantly throwing out bullshit "reports" to make money. They are using this one chance to come off as legitimate journalists to make as much money for themselves as possible.

Marc Mero has a few good points, but he is doing it in such an obnoxious way that I can't stand the guy.

[Rob]

Meltzer and Alvarez are constantly throwing out bullshit "reports" to make money. They are using this one chance to come off as legitimate journalists to make as much money for themselves as possible.


Bullshit. Prove this.

[McLegend]

This shouldn't be a use against them mentally. This should be let's look at the businnes see how we can make things better so less people die in the future.

That's what this whole thing should be about. WWE shouldn't be taking such offense and a lot of media outlets shouldn't be placing the entire blame on WWE.

And also that's exactly what Meltzer has been saying this whole time. He has defended the WWE constantly on his website. He has said this shouldn't be an attack on Vince McMahon, because the problems didn't start with Vince.

However though WWE has to change if the entire industry is to change otherwise because no one else is going to.

If that means Congress has to come in... I'm all for it.

[Rob]

Nobody has put 100% on WWE at any point. The company, it's idiot staff and it's clueless mark fans think anyone who talks slightly negative in their direction is the spawn of Satan though.

[KingofOldSchool]

I can't take most of them seriously because they are talking out of their asses. All I know is that Chris Benoit probably did drugs and somehow he killed his wife,son, and himself in 3 days of horror. Bret and Jericho are the only ones who haven't come off with an agenda in this whole thing.

I think Jericho could possibly have a hidden agenda.

[chrisat928]

Actually, when Garce was going over the list of dead wrestlers Finlay said that 85% of those wrestlers never worked for the WWE, but Grace came back and said, "But they were pro-wrestlers, right?"
So she's implying that WWE is the governing body of all pro-wrestling.

[James Steele]

I think Jericho could possibly have a hidden agenda.

Plug his book?

[James Steele]

Bullshit. Prove this.
Why do they make their newsletters? Do they do it for free? Since when has anybody considered a dirtsheet writer a legit journalist until now?

[Loose Cannon]

well Finlay's comment right there is moronic. 85%? LOL.

[McLegend]

Plug his book?
Or getting back into the WWE

[James Steele]

Or getting back into the WWE
:rofl:

He left WWE because he wanted to. WWE has asked him to come back, and he didn't because he didn't want to. WWE needs Jericho more than Jericho needs WWE.

[McLegend]

Yes but if Jericho says even half the stuff that Mero or Konnan or saying he might burn a bridge with them.

[McLegend]

Btw has anyone been able to find a clip of this segment with Finlay and everyone?

I've been looking but I can't find it.

[Jordan]

I agree with the WWE guys, when you become a pro wrestler specifically for the WWE you know what your in for. You will get injured, you won't have much time to work out, you won't get to see your family, you will have to bust your ass. They make more than enough money to buy their own medical insurance, plus if they get injured in the ring then WWE will pay for it as Kennedy said. You can't blame WWE for what a single person or group of people do behind closed doors. Now you can have a drug testing policy of course, but just like any other job there are always ways to get around that.
If Chris Benoit was dopped up that is not WWE's faul, that is his fault and his doctors fault, being the one who prescribes them.

Chris Benoit should have known better, after all he recently went through the death of his best friend Eddie Guerrero, who felt the effect of drugs, and probably steroids. What more can the WWE do? Pro wrestlers are not children, they are grown men and women who have a sense of right and wrong for the most part. It is not WWE's responsibility to baby them and watch them like a crazy dictator. The media wants to bring McMahon down for some reason, a culmination of 30 plus years of controversy.

Benoit had been with his doctor for years, since he was in WCW. He probably got other guys to go to him as well so they could get their roids, uppers and downers easily. After all over 60 pro wrestlers used him as their doctor, now with him out of the way it could mean a turning point as to how the wrestlers handle their own personal and health problems.

[James Steele]

I agree with you on everything except the 1st paragraph. Wrestlers need a union to fight for them to get decent benefits.

[McLegend]

Pro wrestlers are not children, they are grown men and women
This is excatly it right here.

Wrestlers are grown men and what do grown men usually have? They have families, and good amount of them will do what they can to support them. Usually that means making money, and how do most most wrestlers make money in wrestling? By taking steriods so they can look good.

A lot of these wrestlers who have been dying were doing what they did to support familes. They were trying to make as much as they could for them or just themeselves. Anyone in any business would what it takes to make the most money in any profession, and in wrestling that's taking steriod so you can be as big as possible.

The wrestler's aren't going to change that way of thinking, because that way of thinking is human nature. The only way it's going change is if the people at top do something. If that's pushing guys soley based on talent, serious drug testing, or whatever. They should do it

It's the people at top of the wrestling industry who have to change first in order for the wrestlers to change.

[NeanderCarl]

Btw has anyone been able to find a clip of this segment with Finlay and everyone?

I've been looking but I can't find it.

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[NeanderCarl]

Pt. 2
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[McLegend]

Thank you, NeanderCarl

[NeanderCarl]

Thank you, NeanderCarl
:y:

[Kane Knight]

I can't take most of them seriously because they are talking out of their asses. All I know is that Chris Benoit probably did drugs and somehow he killed his wife,son, and himself in 3 days of horror. Bret and Jericho are the only ones who haven't come off with an agenda in this whole thing.Bret needs to get over it.

[Kane Knight]

Nobody has put 100% on WWE at any point. The company, it's idiot staff and it's clueless mark fans think anyone who talks slightly negative in their direction is the spawn of Satan though.

You mean 99% of TPWWers.

[James Steele]

Bret needs to get over it.

LOLz

[NeanderCarl]

Pt 3, short and nothing of note...

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[James Steele]

You and Rob need to pull y'alls heads out of y'alls self-righteous asses and actually read some of the arguments besides going "ITS WWE'S RESPONSIBILITY! STUPID WWE MARK!"

WWE has a drug testing policy with punishments for failures. Yes, those punishments could be harsher but to basically imply that WWE is doing next to nothing is bullshit and you know it. Here is proof so you won't have to waste your time ranting about how I am another noob with no basis for my claims:

Not a question. Vince McMahon takes no responsibility for anyone who died who wasn't working for him at the time. And even then he still doesn't take any responsibility no matter how minor. If you don't discourage drug use even though it's illegal and some wrestler worked for you for 10 years dies a week after you release him, how does the company not take any responsibility.

And I can't believe people are still shilling this wellness program. It's a fucking shame. Benoit's toxicology reports are gonna come back and he is gonna be full of drugs and enlarged muscles like the heart for example. And they said more than once that he PASSED a drug test this year.
What more discouragement can WWE do than say "If we catch you doing this shit, you will be punished." Also Rob, is it possible he was clean when he took the test and then has taken something since then?! HOLY SHIT! IMPOSSIBLE

And publically traded companies who choose to let suicides happen must deal with the consequences. In this case , bad publicity and a hit to stock prices.
Are you actually so jaded to actually believe WWE has done NOTHING to prevent these situations from happening. The Wellness Policy has shown results. What the fuck more do you want? Just because HHH hasn't ever failed a test and been fired??

Does TNA or any other wrestling promotion have a drug policy?
None. Not even WWE.

And I'm curious to hear about the rampant steroid abuse that wrestling promoters encouraged at the turn of the century. I mean, if you're gonna play DA, work at it.
Obviously, WWE doesn't have a drug policy! Of course I do want to hear where the "encouraged steroid abuse" from 2000 came from. Did it come from your ego trying to win an argument or did you just pull it out of your ass like you usually do.

[NeanderCarl]

WWE indirectly encourages steroid use by rewarding the most muscular guys with pushes, whether warranted or not. Look at the clueless Chris Masters' continued exposure on WWE TV.

However, even the most hardened McMahon-bashers have always denied that WWE ever suggested or pushed steroids onto them.

That's right... even the most anti-McMahon wrestlers out there all confess that WWE never actively encouraged steroid use, even in the 80s.

[McLegend]

Look at Chris Masters when it comes to seriouness of the WWE and it's wellness policy.

Before the testing Chris Masters was being pused very hard. A few months after the Test was implenmented he failed was taken off the road and TV for a number of days and probably even months ( I can't remember the exact time frame).

He returns to TV noticeably smaller, and upon his return he starts to lose a lot of his matches. Which he really didn't lose that much of before, and his push was almost gone. He was even made fun off regualary on National TV because of how much smaller he was. HHH on TV said something to the affect of "What are you going to talk about? How to lose 50 pounds in a month."

Then a little while after that Chris Masters started getting bigger again, and guess what he started winning matches and was starting to get pushed again.

The WWE made a great stride when it implemented the Wellness policy and they have done stuff to try improve.

And creating another policy that doesn't have to be taken off the corporate website would be a great way to improve.

[McLegend]

Of course you have to mention Masters as I am typing out my post.

Bastard :foc:

[James Steele]

WWE indirectly encourages steroid use by rewarding the most muscular guys with pushes, whether warranted or not. Look at the clueless Chris Masters' continued exposure on WWE TV.
Chris Masters got caught by the drug test and payed the price. He is on TV, but he is a glorified jobber ever since he failed that test. Also, he lost an insane amount of body mass and hasn't gotten back to Mini-Steiner physique since (even though he has gained back body mass).

[NeanderCarl]

Chris Masters got caught by the drug test and payed the price. He is on TV, but he is a glorified jobber ever since he failed that test. Also, he lost an insane amount of body mass and hasn't gotten back to Mini-Steiner physique since (even though he has gained back body mass).

Yes, and as legend pointed out, as soon as he inexplicably started beefing up again, WWE's interest in pushing him returned.

He had a bad run there, losing cleanly to Super Crazy over and over, but he has since returned to the same position he was in before failing the test. Where's the lesson there?

[James Steele]

Then a little while after that Chris Masters started getting bigger again, and guess what he started winning matches and was starting to get pushed again.

Yes, and as legend pointed out, as soon as he inexplicably started beefing up again, WWE's interest in pushing him returned.

Beating "local jobbers" and jobbing to Santino Marella is a push?

[NeanderCarl]

I'm not knocking the WWE... I agree with those who say "individual choice"... it sure is lazy journalism to point the finger at WWE, when these grown men are dying as a result of the "rock n roll lifestyle" they chose to live on the road in the 80s and early 90s.

[James Steele]

He had a bad run there, losing cleanly to Super Crazy over and over, but he has since returned to the same position he was in before failing the test. Where's the lesson there?
He isn't headling PPVs for the World heavyweight championship. Masters was getting a decent sub-main event push before he failed the test. He is nowhere near that level.

[NeanderCarl]

Beating "local jobbers" and jobbing to Santino Marella is a push?

A solid mid-card position, getting his hand raised on at least a semi-regular basis on TV, a continued putting over of his finishing hold (despite the "unbreakable" tag being long gone...)

Yeah, I'd say things could be a lot worse for Chris Masters.

[James Steele]

Yeah, I'd say things could be a lot worse for Chris Masters.
You could say that for anybody in WWE who gets on TV. The guys is a somewhat established name and has potential to be a money-maker. Of course, he can't get a second chance from WWE because that supports drug use! Vince says, "SHOOT UP!"

[NeanderCarl]

He isn't headling PPVs for the World heavyweight championship. Masters was getting a decent sub-main event push before he failed the test. He is nowhere near that level.

He was never a serious contender. He was on the "midcarder-gets-a-two-week-push-to-seem-like-a-semi-serious-threat-to-the-champion-before-losing-to-him-on-TV" rotating cycle. Everybody mid-card gets a go on that carousel. Hell, Bob Holly has his own seat.

Masters would be where he is now, failed drug test or not. He was never going to make it in the main event, not at this stage of his career anyway.

[NeanderCarl]

And, what, anybody who isn't headlining PPVs for World titles is a jobber?

[McLegend]

All right fine let's say I argee for a second that he never got back to the level he was at (which I don't believe for a second)

He's still just as big as he was then. His physique is still great. He is obviously still on steriods.

Isn't the point of the Wellness policy to keep people off Steriods?

[James Steele]

You pretty much said he is right back to where he was. He is now a lower midcard guy at best. Also, working with HBK,Angle, and Cena for months is just the standard midcard act.

[NeanderCarl]

I don't believe WWE takes its drug policy nonchalently. I do think that people are finding ways around it, though. And the reason they are choosing to go that route is because the rewards outweigh the risks.

I don't blame the WWE, per se, I blame the wrestlers. But WWE is guilty of rewarding those with unrealistic physiques. How many hugely-muscled guys have come into the WWE and not been met with at least an attempted push? On the flipside, you can probably count on your fingers the number of guys with unremarkable bodies that WWE has put their promotional weight behind.

[James Steele]

All right fine let's say I argee for a second that he never got back to the level he was at (which I don't believe for a second)

He's still just as big as he was then. His physique is still great. He is obviously still on steriods.

Isn't the point of the Wellness policy to keep people off Steriods?

You can't make anybody do anything they don't want to do. Chris Masters will eventually trip up and fail a test if he is still on roids. He will have fucked up his career if he is that dumb, but he has the choice to be a dumbass.

[NeanderCarl]

You pretty much said he is right back to where he was. He is now a lower midcard guy at best. Also, working with HBK,Angle, and Cena for months is just the standard midcard act.

Working with them, yes, when he is never treated - by the bookers, or the fans - as a credible threat. He was midcard cannon fodder.

[Volchok]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nebRjO1ANy0&NR=1


Check it, the best news interview i've ever seen.

[NeanderCarl]

As I said, failed drug test or not, shrunken physique or not, Masters can be chalked up to another failed experiment... he doesn't have the character or intangibles to be accepted as a genuine star, and therefore he would be slipping down the card regardless.

[McLegend]

You can't make anybody do anything they don't want to do. Chris Masters will eventually trip up and fail a test if he is still on roids. He will have fucked up his career if he is that dumb, but he has the choice to be a dumbass.
One would think if the wellness policy was serious he would have failed another drug test by now, and as a result he would be smaller again.

[James Steele]

I don't believe WWE takes its drug policy nonchalently. I do think that people are finding ways around it, though. And the reason they are choosing to go that route is because the rewards outweigh the risks.

I don't blame the WWE, per se, I blame the wrestlers. But WWE is guilty of rewarding those with unrealistic physiques. How many hugely-muscled guys have come into the WWE and not been met with at least an attempted push? On the flipside, you can probably count on your fingers the number of guys with unremarkable bodies that WWE has put their promotional weight behind.

Just off the top of my head:

Of those in WWE today: Edge, CM Punk, Kane, Matt Hardy, Jeff Hardy, Randy Orton (arguable- but he doesn't have a freaky looking muscle build) ,MVP, Shawn Michaels, Umaga, Lance Cade, Trevor Murdoch, Booker T., Mr. Kennedy, Fit Finlay, Kane, JBL, Matt Striker, The Miz (he is getting a half-ass push in ECW), Elijah Burke,Carlito, Shelton Benjamin, and Chavo Guerrero.

[James Steele]

Working with them, yes, when he is never treated - by the bookers, or the fans - as a credible threat. He was midcard cannon fodder.
HE KNOCKED THEM OUT WITH A FULL NELSON or they had it stopped by some chickenshit interference.

[NeanderCarl]

HE KNOCKED THEM OUT WITH A FULL NELSON

WRESTLING'S A WORK

[NeanderCarl]

Just off the top of my head:

Of those in WWE today: Edge, CM Punk, Kane, Matt Hardy, Jeff Hardy, Randy Orton (arguable- but he doesn't have a freaky looking muscle build) ,MVP, Shawn Michaels, Umaga, Lance Cade, Trevor Murdoch, Booker T., Mr. Kennedy, Fit Finlay, Kane, JBL, Matt Striker, The Miz (he is getting a half-ass push in ECW), Elijah Burke,Carlito, Shelton Benjamin, and Chavo Guerrero.

By promotional weight, I meant the kind of super push reserved for tippy-top guys (or those they want to turn into tippy-top guys). Some on your list remain to be seen, but of those who you listed...

Edge, for a long time, was ripped. His first big singles push came around 2003(?) when he returned from neck surgery and he was super-buff. Now, he looks kinda average, but he's already made it to the top.

Kane? Please! The guy has the kind of large, monster physique WWE loves.

Even though I wouldn't say they were on steroids, Umaga, Booker T and JBL all have those larger-than-life, heads-turning-in-airports bodies that Vince adores. I would hardly say "unremarkable".

The only guy you can really justify there is Shawn Michaels (and possibly Kennedy, at a push). Nobody else on that list has ever had a prolonged sniff at the top rung of the ladder.

[James Steele]

WRESTLING'S A WORK
SO ARE PUSHES

To make 2 future legends and the main star of wrestling today either pass out or have to be saved from his submission move is a pretty damn good push.

[James Steele]

By promotional weight, I meant the kind of super push reserved for tippy-top guys (or those they want to turn into tippy-top guys). Some on your list remain to be seen, but of those who you listed...

Edge, for a long time, was ripped. His first big singles push came around 2003(?) when he returned from neck surgery and he was super-buff. Now, he looks kinda average, but he's already made it to the top.

Kane? Please! The guy has the kind of large, monster physique WWE loves.

Even though I wouldn't say they were on steroids, Umaga, Booker T and JBL all have those larger-than-life, heads-turning-in-airports bodies that Vince adores. I would hardly say "unremarkable".

The only guy you can really justify there is Shawn Michaels (and possibly Kennedy, at a push). Nobody else on that list has ever had a prolonged sniff at the top rung of the ladder.

When you said "unremarkable physiques", I thought you meant the scott steiners and chris master's of the world.

Edge- If you broke your neck, I bet your doctor would prescribe you steroids to help you heal faster. Edge hasn't ever looked like a ripped mutant.

Kane and JBL are just big dudes. I would find it hard to say JBL has ever shot up and Kane hasn't looked like a ripped machine since he came back from injury.

[McLegend]

And aren't people pushed based on their size?

Example: Bobby Lashley.

[James Steele]

And aren't people pushed based on their size?

Example: Bobby Lashley.
Cena,Lashley,Bats, and Nitro are the only obvious roiders who are getting major pushes right now. Wrestling is about who draws. People have always payed to see sideshow freaks. Yeah, they are the headline but 3 or 4 out of a roster of god knows how many isn't a bad ratio.

[McLegend]

When you said "unremarkable physiques", I thought you meant the scott steiners and chris master's of the world.

Edge- If you broke your neck, I bet your doctor would prescribe you steroids to help you heal faster. Edge hasn't ever looked like a ripped mutant.
Actually when Edge returned from his injury on that draft special where he was drated to Raw and where he speared Bishoff he was a ripped mutant.

Now he isn't a ripped mutant anymore, but he was at one point.

[chrisat928]

Is it just me, or has this turned suspiciously like a baseball arguement?
I mean, "He's big! He must be on 'roids!" It's the samething we've heard about baseball for two years now.

[McLegend]

Cena,Lashley,Bats, and Nitro are the only obvious roiders who are getting major pushes right now. Wrestling is about who draws. People have always payed to see sideshow freaks. Yeah, they are the headline but 3 or 4 out of a roster of god knows how many isn't a bad ratio.
Benoit was on steriods and he didn't look like a jacked up freak like Batista. Even though he was big, but not just Batista like big.

So I think it's safe to assume that there is more then 3 or 4 on the gas in the WWE right now.

[McLegend]

Is it just me, or has this turned suspiciously like a baseball arguement?
I mean, "He's big! He must be on 'roids!" It's the samething we've heard about baseball for two years now.
And we have heard it wrestling for 30 years and nothing has changed.

[James Steele]

Actually when Edge returned from his injury on that draft special where he was drated to Raw and where he speared Bishoff he was a ripped mutant.

Now he isn't a ripped mutant anymore, but he was at one point.

http://www.edgeuniversity.net/4images/data/media/13/Raw032204-17.jpg
That is a screen-cap of his return to raw. There is a difference between "buff" and "roid monkey."

Here is a picture of him the next week on RAW:

http://www.edgeuniversity.net/4images/data/media/14/Raw032904-35.jpg

Here is a pic from the week after that:

http://www.edgeuniversity.net/4images/data/media/15/Raw040504-15.jpg

Yeah, he is way buffer but far from shooting up every 48 hours.

Here is a pic from the next week:

http://www.edgeuniversity.net/4images/data/media/10/Raw041204-4.jpg

Here is a pic from the week after that:

http://www.edgeuniversity.net/4images/data/media/120/Raw042604-99.jpg

Yes, he was quite the ripped mutant upon his return. :roll:

[James Steele]

Benoit was on steriods and he didn't look like a jacked up freak like Batista. Even though he was big, but not just Batista like big.

So I think it's safe to assume that there is more then 3 or 4 on the gas in the WWE right now.

I said only 3-4 guys getting a huge push in WWE. Also, if you don't think Benoit looked roided up...you are in denial.

[James Steele]

And we have heard it wrestling for 30 years and nothing has changed.

Because just like baseball players, wrestler makes the choice. The only realistic thing ANY company can do is have drug tests and consequences for failed tests.

[McLegend]

I think Benoit did look roided up.

[McLegend]

Because just like baseball players, wrestler makes the choice. The only realistic thing ANY company can do is have drug tests and consequences for failed tests.
Yes and they can have policy that does not have to get taken off their webiste, because it has so many loopholes.

[James Steele]

I think Benoit did look roided up.

It was obvious. I respected Benoit in the ring just as much as everybody did, but he was on the juice and it was obvious. Thats why people think Benoit looked roided up. He was given a pass on it because he could work better than anybody in wrestling. The problem with most roid monkeys is they can't work (Lex Luger, Hogan, Warrior, etc.)

[James Steele]

Yes and they can have policy that does not have to get taken off their webiste, because it has so many loopholes.

Please tell me some loopholes besides the prescription thing. I can't believe people are outraged that people can have a prescription (by a doctor) for a drug and it not be taken into account for their drug test.

[McLegend]

You can pass a drug a test with a ratio of 10/1. I'm sure a doctor isn't going to seriously prescribe something that is going to give you testrone level that high.

You shouldn't be able to pass a drug test with a testrone level of 10/1.

Now if the WWE Wellness policy was so legit and didn't have all these loopholes why would they take if off their corporate website? WHY?


And Edge looks totally roided up there compared to what he looks like now.

[Shadow]

I like how James Steele listed Jeff Hardy in his list of people who've been pushed with unremarkable physics or however you spelt it.

[James Steele]

I like how James Steele listed Jeff Hardy in his list of people who've been pushed with unremarkable physics or however you spelt it.

He may shoot up something, but it aint steroids. :p

Jeff Hardy has cleaned himself up and I hope he does well.

[James Steele]

You can pass a drug a test with a ratio of 10/1. I'm sure a doctor isn't going to seriously prescribe something that is going to give you testrone level that high.

You shouldn't be able to pass a drug test with a testrone level of 10/1.

Now if the WWE Wellness policy was so legit and didn't have all these loopholes why would they take if off their corporate website? WHY?


And Edge looks totally roided up there compared to what he looks like now.
That thing is bullshit. 10:1 is automatic failure- prescription or no prescriptionn. 4:1 up to below 10:1 is investigated and you must provide prescriptions for anything found in your system. It is the same test given in the NFL and NBA.

EDIT: I can't find the clip on YouTube, but Ken Kennedy himself debunked the 10:1 thing. I think he would know about it a hell of a lot more than some greedy dirtsheet writer or ratings-hungry "news" anchor.

We have a strict drug policy in place. The WWE's wellness program was designed and instituted by the same doctor who implemented the NFL and the NBA's substance abuse programs. Contrary to what somebody recently said on one of these "tabloid" shows the WWE's allowed levels are exactly the same as the NFL. (Someone, I can't recall exactly who said it, said that the WWE allowed a 10:1 Testosterone to Epitestosterone level, which is false. We have a 4:1 level exactly like the NFL and the NBA.) In fact, I knew of someone who took an over the counter supplement from GNC which he didn't know was on the banned list, which caused him to have an elevated testosterone level. This individual was suspended and fined because of it. We can't even take Ephedrine which is another legal supplement that can be bought at any gas station in the country. Since I've been with the company, I've seen the few people that did have problems with drugs either sent to rehab to try and help them overcome their addictions, (sent to one of the top rehab facilities in the country and paid for in full by the WWE) or be fired for repeat offenses.

[Loose Cannon]

It was obvious. I respected Benoit in the ring just as much as everybody did, but he was on the juice and it was obvious. Thats why people think Benoit looked roided up. He was given a pass on it because he could work better than anybody in wrestling. The problem with most roid monkeys is they can't work (Lex Luger, Hogan, Warrior, etc.)

James, some of your posts make me want to stab my eyes with a steak knife. I love your last sentence here and I love the 3 guys you name. You know who else were roid monkeys? Randy Savage, Dynamite Kid, Kurt Angle, Kerry Von Erich, Rick Rude, Mr. Perfect, Eddie Guerrero. Just naming names that come to me. Oh, by the way, Luger was a pretty solid worker back in the 80's.

[James Steele]

James, some of your posts make me want to stab my eyes with a steak knife. I love your last sentence here and I love the 3 guys you name. You know who else were roid monkeys? Randy Savage, Dynamite Kid, Kurt Angle, Kerry Von Erich, Rick Rude, Mr. Perfect, Eddie Guerrero. Just naming names that come to me. Oh, by the way, Luger was a pretty solid worker back in the 80's.

Most of them could work, but it eventually caught up with them...but thats not what they are remembered for.

[Rob]

90% of the WWE roster is on the juice. Yes even the cruiserweights. Even the women are on GHB and/or HGH.

[Rob]

Just off the top of my head:

Of those in WWE today: Edge, CM Punk, Kane, Matt Hardy, Jeff Hardy, Randy Orton (arguable- but he doesn't have a freaky looking muscle build) ,MVP, Shawn Michaels, Umaga, Lance Cade, Trevor Murdoch, Booker T., Mr. Kennedy, Fit Finlay, Kane, JBL, Matt Striker, The Miz (he is getting a half-ass push in ECW), Elijah Burke,Carlito, Shelton Benjamin, and Chavo Guerrero.

At least 10 of those guys are very clearly on steroids or have been in a certain announcers case.

[James Steele]

He asked me to name guys who didn't have "freakish physiques" that have gotten pushed. He didn't ask me to name people not on steroids.

[James Steele]

At least 10 of those guys are very clearly on steroids or have been in a certain announcers case.

Which ten? I played football with guys who had those builds and I know for a fact they weren't on steroids.

[NeanderCarl]

He asked me to name guys who didn't have "freakish physiques" that have gotten pushed.

No I didn't. I said that you could probably count on your fingers the number of guys with "unremarkable" physiques who have ever had a serious push from WWE (and I mean a real, genuine push towards main event-dom)

I can think of just a few. Flair, Bret, Shawn and Foley.

[Loose Cannon]

Most of them could work, but it eventually caught up with them...but thats not what they are remembered for.

so Hogan, Warrior and Luger are remembered for being roid monkeys? :wtf: By who, you?

[Loose Cannon]

Because just like baseball players, wrestler makes the choice. The only realistic thing ANY company can do is have drug tests and consequences for failed tests.

Yes, wrestlers make choices. They are human beings and humans have a brain. Nobody is disputing that. We're not robots. Who here is saying wrestlers can't make thier own decisions. That's a moot point.

Now, in saying that, why do you think so many wrestlers choose to use steroids or some other growth enhancement? It's been answered by guys here already. History shows the better the body, you are more likely to get a push and the better push you get, the more money you will make. At the end of the day, most people want to make the most money they can. Is this something new in a business?


Yes, the WWE has a drug policy. They say they have drug tests and consquences. For a company who claims this, the punishment line has been really thin, don't you think. Where is Batista, Lashley, HHH, Cena, Edge, Gene Snitsky on this line? Where is most of the roster? lol, but Joey Mercury gets caught. What a load of crap. He was fed to the wolves. He was a scapegoat in a room of users and abusers.

You mention Chris Masters? He failed a test, right? So, what was he doing wrestling for the IC Title on WWE's #1 Cable show? Jobbing or not, he's wrestling the Intercontinental Champion on Raw. The WWE really let him know who's boss. And his body is back to where is was. That right there gives me no hope of thier program. It's laughable.


It was obvious. I respected Benoit in the ring just as much as everybody did, but he was on the juice and it was obvious. Thats why people think Benoit looked roided up. He was given a pass on it because he could work better than anybody in wrestling.

So, do you think that's cool?

Funniest comment of the day coming up right here

Are you actually so jaded to actually believe WWE has done NOTHING to prevent these situations from happening. The Wellness Policy has shown results. What the fuck more do you want? Just because HHH hasn't ever failed a test and been fired?

The Wellness Policy has shown the results guys. Joey Mercury was fired. Randy Orton was sent home and now he's going for the World Championship. One of the most obvious users, Chris Masters, was caught and now he's back with the same body type again. hmm. Yep, that's all there is to it. Not much more to ask for I guess. The Wellness Policy has spoken.

[Kane Knight]

You and Rob need to pull y'alls heads out of y'alls self-righteous asses and actually read some of the arguments besides going "ITS WWE'S RESPONSIBILITY! STUPID WWE MARK!"

I'm assuming you mean me. How self righteous of me to believe that WWE should keep their word to their stockholders and actually obey the law by not defrauding them!

[Kane Knight]

No I didn't. I said that you could probably count on your fingers the number of guys with "unremarkable" physiques who have ever had a serious push from WWE (and I mean a real, genuine push towards main event-dom)

I can think of just a few. Flair, Bret, Shawn and Foley.

Steele? Pulling something out of his ass? Why, I never thought I'd see the day!

[Kane Knight]

Also, the logic seems to be that the policy works because we haven'[t heard anyone dying recently. And by that, I mean the last couple of days.

I mean, Benoit "slipped under the radar." He must've, apparently, just started doing steroids that day, according to Kennedy. And I'm sure RVD and Sabu had passed their drug tests. And how many other people do you think are slipping through the cracks of the "Wellness Policy?" Every instance will be downplayed. That's the corporate line. It's always sad to see the fans defend the company through actions that hurt not only their employees, but the business in general.

[Rob]

Which ten? I played football with guys who had those builds and I know for a fact they weren't on steroids.


Bullshit.

[BigDaddyCool]

Bullshit.

He said football, not soccer.

[Blue Demon]

Marc Mero sounds like Tony Robbins
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[Russenmafia]

I agree with you on everything except the 1st paragraph. Wrestlers need a union to fight for them to get decent benefits.

The very least the WWE could do is pay their staff's travelling expenses.