In the modern era of wrestling...

[BigDaddyCool]

In the modern era of wrestling, how many real stars were created outside of WWF(E)? I personally can only think of maybe a handful: Ric Flair, Sting, The Gaint(Bigshow), and Goldberg...maybe Vader, though I'm not sure I would call him a star.

[Innovator]

In Japan I'd call Vader a star

Flair definitely...regionally you can consider the Von Erichs in Texas

[BigDaddyCool]

In Japan I'd call Vader a star

Flair definitely...regionally you can consider the Von Erichs in Texas

Yeah, but they aren't really that modern.

I just though, you could count RVD possibly, but i am not sure he is a star in the same sence.

[McLegend]

Lets define the modern era of wrestling though. When does it start?

[Loose Cannon]

what are we talking when we say modern?

[Loose Cannon]

jesus christ, what the fuck are you doing legend?

[McLegend]

I don't know, but whatever it is I'm doing it better then you.

[BigDaddyCool]

Hmmmmmm, good point. I would say from the past 15 years, maybe from 1990 onward. I only count flair because he is still wrestling.

[Innovator]

Whatever it is isn't Bunker II

[Loose Cannon]

now the question is what is your definition of a star. We talking Rock/Ausitn/HHH level here?

Cause Cactus Jack was a big star, but did get bigger in WWF

[IC Champion]

ECW with Taz and RVD.

[McLegend]

I think 1990 is too long ago. I say Montreal begins the modern era of wrestling.

[Xero]

If you can call Big Show a "real star" I would have to say that Vader would most definitely be there. His WCW run was a shit load better than his WWF run.

[Mercury Bullet]

In almost any time frame, in terms of national prominence and guys who are still wrestling (or only recently inactive) I think Flair, Sting, Big Show, and Goldberg are about it.

I would add Booker T to that list. And MAYBE DDP if you think he was ever big enough. I guess I would put Vader on that list too.

[BigDaddyCool]

I think 1990 is too long ago. I say Montreal begins the modern era of wrestling.

Hmmmmm, so the past 10 years?

As for a star...hmmm. You got guy like Austin and Foley who were around a while before being with WWF, but WWF made them stars. I would think to be a true star, they need to be someone that an average joe would reconize.

[BigDaddyCool]

In almost any time frame, in terms of national prominence and guys who are still wrestling (or only recently inactive) I think Flair, Sting, Big Show, and Goldberg are about it.

I would add Booker T to that list. And MAYBE DDP if you think he was ever big enough. I guess I would put Vader on that list too.

Pretty much, I mean someone that is a major star, not just someone we know. But if you are going to say Booker and DDP, then we might have to add Scott Stiener.

[Mercury Bullet]

For the same reasons you can't count Austin or Foley, I wouldn't count RVD either. He became a bigger star in the WWE because ECW was never big enough in the first place.

[mrslackalack]

IMO in the last ten years

Malenko
Eddie
Benoit
RVD
Taz
Goldberg
DDP
C.M. Punk (Was over huge in ROH and other independents and while he was in OVW he carried the C.M. Punk style instead of WWE creating him another character)

[Mercury Bullet]

DDP and Steiner are a stretch, I would put Booker a little ahead of them though.

[mrslackalack]

Booker T as well

[Mercury Bullet]

C.M. Punk (Was over huge in ROH and other independents and while he was in OVW he carried the C.M. Punk style instead of WWE creating him another character)

Yeh, but is ROH so nationally prominent that they produce "stars"? I don't really think so.

[BigDaddyCool]

IMO in the last ten years

Malenko
Eddie
Benoit
RVD
Taz
Goldberg
DDP
C.M. Punk (Was over huge in ROH and other independents and while he was in OVW he carried the C.M. Punk style instead of WWE creating him another character)

Besides for Goldberg and DDP, I wouldn't really call any of those guys a real star.

[BigDaddyCool]

Also, Malenko was never a star.

[Innovator]

nWo as a group, dunno about stars individually

[BigDaddyCool]

nWo as a group, dunno about stars individually

The individuals that were nWo, Hogan, Nash, and Hall were made famous by WWE. It is arguable that Nash and Hall simply changed their names but still played the same character to an exent in nWo. And Hogan, well fuck, he is Hogan.

Here is a list of what I consider real stars: Hogan, Flair, Undertaker, Rock, Stone Cold, Shawn Micheal, Nash, HHH, Sting, Goldberg, Foley, Bret Hart. From that, you have to ask yourself, is the guy I'm going to name really part of that group.

[Loose Cannon]

it's a short list. Mostly because Modern Wrestling consisted of 3 companies and WCW took a lot of the top tier WWF guys anyway.

ECW had nobody of the level you are talking about.

[BigDaddyCool]

it's a short list. Mostly because Modern Wrestling consisted of 3 companies and WCW took a lot of the top tier WWF guys anyway.

ECW had nobody of the level you are talking about.

No, we have 4 companies. We have TNA, and they are doing the exact same thing as WCW.

Though in all fairness, I would count Taz and RVD as stars for ECW, while they are no were near the list of guys I named, but for ECW's level, they are legends.

[Loose Cannon]

I thought about TNA and didn't even want to include them cause they have nobody as well.

If you're going to go Taz and RVD, does Douglas get a nod?

[BigDaddyCool]

I thought about TNA and didn't even want to include them cause they have nobody as well.

If you're going to go Taz and RVD, does Douglas get a nod?

Douglas deserves a mention, but I would include compare Douglas, Dreamer, Sandman, and Sabu to RVD & Taz the way I would compare Kane, DDP, Booker T, Stiener, Bigshow to Stone Cold, Rock, or Goldberg or the way when you mention Flair you have to bring up Arn Anderson or Ricky Steamboat.

[BigDaddyCool]

Also, I'm trying to point out the fact, that most of the guys wrestling in major promotions right now that are even barely worth a damn, were made in WWE. I mean look at TNA, for every one TNA home grown star, there are at least 2 WWE, WCW, or ECW guys, and the WCW/ECW guys can be count on 1 hand (if you ignore the fact that there are 3 dudleys and count them as 1 unit).

[Shisen Kopf]

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j188/noblenight03/Glacier_WCW.jpg

[Dorkchop]

Past 10 years?

Booker T
Goldberg
uhhh..... possibly RVD (Obviously before his WWF/E days.)

[BigDaddyCool]

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j188/noblenight03/Glacier_WCW.jpg

Subzero was never a star.

[Pepsi Man]

Subzero was never a star.
That's not true. Just because he looked a lot like Reptile...

[hitman23]

Ive always considered the "modern era" to start after wrestlemania 1. I must be old. Anyways what about Dusty Rhodes and The Road Warriors?