DISCUSSION - My proposed TEAM CANADA idea (Jericho/Benoit/Edge/Bret Hart, etc.

[Heyman]

DISCUSSION - My proposed TEAM CANADA idea (Jericho/Benoit/Edge/Bret Hart, etc.

In the last month, Chris Benoit has come to Raw. It is also not farfetched to assume that Edge will defect to Raw as well. What does this mean? Every Canadian wrestler (as far as I know) will be on the RAW roster. With rumors circulating that Chris Benoit will win the title, combined with the fact that Bret Hart may give a "farewell" speech of sorts........I'm starting to REALLY wish that the WWE do another Canada/America angle (similar to the one that they did in 1997)....where the Canadians would be 'faces' in the Canada and heels in the USA.

This wouldn't be something gay like the UnAmericans or Les Resistance either.....due to this stable consisting of MUCH greater "marquee" names and being a larger stable.

<font color=red>Team Canada</font>
-Chris Benoit (World Champion)
-Bret Hart (manager)
-Chris Jericho (main-eventer who fights other main-eventers not fighting
Chris Benoit)
-Trish Stratus (Jericho's valet/Women's Champion).
-Test (Group muscle)
-Edge/Christian (tag team champs)
-Lance Storm (Intercontinental Champion)
-Val Venis (co-contender for the IC title if Storm loses the title).

Here is what I wouldn't mind seeing happening within the next few months:

-At Wrestlemania, Chris Benoit pins Triple H to become the NEW World Champion (yes.....Triple H defies his internet critics and takes it up the ass from Benoit.......Triple H receives Sweet Chin music first, and then gets pinned with the Flying Headbutt).

-The night after Wrestlemania, Shawn Michaels challenges Benoit for a world title shot (since he never actually got pinned). Benoit accepts. On this night, it is also announced that Bret Hart will give a "farewell" speech of sorts at Backlash.

-At Backlash, Bret comes out to a HUGE 5 minute standing ovation. Bret talks about his career, being appreciative to his fans, etc. Bret also mentions how he holds no grudge against Vince.......or Shawn Michaels.

*backstage skit* - Bret comes face to face with Shawn Michaels. HBK extends his hand and says 'hey'. Bret Hart then says, 'good luck tonight'.

-In the main-event, HBK takes on Benoit. The two put on a great match. Towards the end, Bret Hart comes out (to another huge pop). HBK nails Benoit with Sweet Chin music. He goes for the pin......1.......2.....Bret pulls the ref out! HBK gets up and goes toward Bret (asking him, "wtf!").

Suddenly out of nowhere, Test comes out and nails HBK! Storm, Venis, Christian, and Jericho also hit the ring and stomp away on HBK. The crowd is going nuts! Since it's a "no DQ" match, Benoit then gets the pin for the 1...2....3.

After the match, Team CAnada continue to beat away on HBK. Team Canada holds HBK down. Bret then grabs a chair, and nails HBK's knee (which then explains HBK's knee injury.....he can then take legitimate time off after this).

Bret's music hits again, and Team Canada holds up a Canadian flag. Crowd goes nuts again (although some people 'boo' due to the heelishness of the act...???).


<font color=white>Advantages of such a scenerio occuring</font>

1) Raw's best workers will be at the 'forefront' of the action on Raw (i.e. Benoit, Jericho, Lance Storm, Christian, etc.). Since Team Canada will be the 'main stable', all of these guys will be involved in the most important angles.

2) Bret Hart being involved in a highly significant angle (this angle can last for a good 5-6 months?) should help bolster TV ratings.


<font color=white>Potential disadvantages and storyline inconsistencies that I can see</font>

1) What happens with the whole Jericho/Christian/Trish storyline?
-Perhaps this can be explained by the fact that Jericho and Christian's friendship is a lot deeper than people think. Yes - a girl came between them, but they can put aside differences. If you recall, Jericho and Christian hinted a break-up last year (when they almost feuded for the IC title.....Christian actually called Jericho out, and then got beat down by Jericho....Austin then applauded Jericho).

2) What happens with the potential Edge/Christian feud if Edge returns to Raw?
-They kiss and make up; plain and simple. They are brothers. Perhaps a week after Wrestlemania, Edge announces that he is coming to Raw.....and Christian better watch out. On the night of Edge's return, Christian is fighting RVD. Edge comes out! It looks like Edge will hit Christian, but he nails RVD. Christian wins the match. At Backlash, Edge and Christian take on Rob Van Dam and Booker T. As far as the "who hit Edge?" storyline from last year's No Way Out, that to can be dropped. Fans have a short memory anyways - I don't think too many people will care....let alone remember.

3) What happens with Evolution? Since Evolution is the main stable for Raw right now, what would happen with them? I say break them up after Wrestlemania. Triple H leaves to go film movies for awhile. Flair can also take time off to rest his injured neck (maybe they can do an angle where Orton or Batista break Flair's neck in frustration?). Since Smackdown are in need of heels right now, perhaps Orton and Batista can head over there (after they break Flair's neck! :D). This trade can be done to compensate for Edge coming to Raw.

As far as Orton goes, he can get into an epic feud with John Cena over the US title. Perhaps this could be the equivalent of The Rock/Triple H from 1998 (where both men 'go over' due to the awesomeness of their feud).

[Loose Cannon]

Ok, First of all if that were to happen I would totally go apeshit. But there is no WAY Bret is going to be involved in WWE storylines (or so I'm told from Rob and CyNick every other week :) ) Anyway, you could still do a Team Canada without Bret with all the other guys. I would ax Test and Venis and maybe make Edge not join the group, but instead fight against them.

The biggest problem with this is that the Canada angle has been done too many times already. And I WANT TO SEE ORTON LEAD A NEW EVOLUTION GROUP. So taking that away would suck for me. But I have always wanted to see a group like this with all great Canadian Wrestlers.

[Heyman]

Ok, First of all if that were to happen I would totally go apeshit. But there is no WAY Bret is going to be involved in WWE storylines (or so I'm told from Rob and CyNick every other week) Anyway, you could still do a Team Canada without Bret with all the other guys. I would ax Test and Venis and maybe make Edge not join the group, but instead fight against them.

Reason why I would have EVERY single Canadian in that stable, is so that it creates more emotion (which would make it seem a helluva lot more significant than the UnAmericans or Les Resistance). It would also make Bret Hart look more significant since all of these Canadians would be fighting under him.

The biggest problem with this is that the Canada angle has been done too many times already. And I WANT TO SEE ORTON LEAD A NEW EVOLUTION GROUP. So taking that away would suck for me. But I have always wanted to see a group like this with all great Canadian Wrestlers.

Perhaps Orton and Batista can go to Smackdown and form a NEW Evolution over there (they can add two more new up-and-comers).

[Nowhere Man]

Bret Hart is never coming back. Get over it.

As for the whole angle, no way. The whole Anti-USA gimmick has been done to death, especially with Canadians. Yeah, it was novel to have a big stable with the Hart Foundation, and for a while Lance Storm was one of the hottest heels in WCW with that gimmick, but it's gotten unbelievably old and offers little to no room for a long-term character. Just look at La Resistance; nobody gives a f</>uck about them now. Let a heel get over on his own merit, instead of clamoring for cheap heat.

And Orton/Batista leading anything would be a recipe for disaster. Right now, all the members of Evolution are sucking off of Ric Flair's heat, or getting booed simply by being on the opposite side of Mick Foley, and now that Flair's possibly out of wrestling for good, things don't bode too well for them. Especially when Trips is off making crappy movies.

[Rob]

Bringing back old storylines never works. Especially when the Canada vs. America thing has been done to death.

If Bret Hart came back, it would never be for a storyline (HOW MANY TIMES DO WE NEED TO SAY IT?!) and do you really thing he is gonna ever get booed?

[Heyman]

Bret Hart is never coming back. Get over it.

Just like Sable would never come back. Vince is now cumming in her ears on road trips. People like you also claimed that Bischoff and Hulk Hogan would never step foot within the WWE. Ditto for Bill Goldberg.

Bret and Vince have a decent relationship now and are on speaking terms.

And Orton/Batista leading anything would be a recipe of disaster. Right now, all the members of Evolution are sucking off of Ric Flair's heat, and now that Flair's possibly out of wrestling for good, things don't bode too well for them. Especially when Trips is off making crappy movies.

I'll have to disagree. Triple H and Chyna leached off of HBK during the DX days, but easily took over when HBK was forced out of action. They added new members and the stable stayed over.

[Rob]

Classic example too of 'Anyone can book one good show' and someone knowing nothing about what's going on. NOBODY, not one single soul, would boo Bret Hart or anything like looked like a new Hart Foundation. 5 minute standing ovation? You clearly have no idea how over Bret Hart was in Canada. Him coming back would make the Hogan standing o's look like a Chris Benoit pop now.

[Rob]

I forgot that Rena Mero and Hulk Hogan had brothers who died on live PPVs doing stunt they were forced to do as punishments (no stunt, no job and that's the facts).

[Nowhere Man]

Heyman: Yeah, but D-X was a whole different kind of stable from Evolution. D-X got over because it was full of raunchy badass types that fit in perfectly with the Attitude era. Plus, they were faces for a lot of the time. Evolution's just another take on the Four Horsemen formula, in that they're made of a rich elitist champ and his cronies, which works when someone like Flair is in charge. Problem is, they don't identify at all with the audience, so if one of the henchmen steps up and becomes the leader, it doesn't work at all.

How long do you think the Horsemen would have stayed on top with Tully Blanchard as the leader? That's more or less the exact same thing as putting Orton in charge of Evolution (except that Blanchard was somewhat over)

[Heyman]

Bringing back old storylines never works. Especially when the Canada vs. America thing has been done to death.

Canada vs. America was done 7 years ago. Granted - the UnAmerican thing was done quite recently (not to mention, Les Resistance), but I'm pretty sure that this would be a LOT bigger than either of those last two. Not only would the stable be a lot bigger, but it would consist of a lot of main-eventers/upper mid-carders. If Bret Hart is involved in ANYTHING, it will be fresh.

If Bret Hart came back, it would never be for a storyline (HOW MANY TIMES DO WE NEED TO SAY IT?!) and do you really thing he is gonna ever get booed?

How can you sit their on your arse, and say "such and such will never happen"? I think Vince has proven over the years that ANYTHING can happen within the WWE. This is a guy who hired Eric freakin Bischoff for christ sakes.

As far as Bret being 'booed' is concerned, I think he'll always get a mixed crowd reaction if such a thing happened (probably more face reactions than anything, but the responses will be appropriate when needed). I think he'll basically be what Ric Flair is right now (not intially......he'll get popped like crazy initially, but over a decent time span). Remember - Shawn Michaels came back to a huge pop when he joined the nWo. However - he started getting decent heel heat over time (when he sweet chinned Booker T).

[Heyman]

Classic example too of 'Anyone can book one good show' and someone knowing nothing about what's going on. NOBODY, not one single soul, would boo Bret Hart or anything like looked like a new Hart Foundation. 5 minute standing ovation? You clearly have no idea how over Bret Hart was in Canada. Him coming back would make the Hogan standing o's look like a Chris Benoit pop now.

I didn't say anyone would openly 'boo' Bret (atleast that's not what I meant). What I meant to say, was that perhaps some people would be surprised (or may 'boo' a little bit) if they saw HBK being beaten to sh</>it by 5 or 6 men. Granted - it WOULD be Team Canada (and so most people would be cheering loudly anyways), but you may always get a few marky marks who would recognize that Team Canada would be engaging in a heelish act.

As far as Bret's face pop is concerned, it would definitely out pop Hogan's Montreal ovation. I didn't want to overexaagerate (which is why I only said 5 minute standing ovation). Perhaps it would be 10 or 15 minutes....I don't know.

[blake639raw]

Simply put, why would they bring in Bret to have him as a heel? First of all, he was never comfortable playing the heel anyways. And as has been stated already, who would wanna boo him? Now I wouldn't mind him coming in, maybe at Backlash, give a speech, and possibly be in Benoit's corner. Or even verbally pash the torch to Benoit, but that's the extent of it.

[Heyman]

I forgot that Rena Mero and Hulk Hogan had brothers who died on live PPVs doing stunt they were forced to do as punishments (no stunt, no job and that's the facts).

Forced to do as punishment? Are you for real? I highly doubt that Vince 'forced' Owen into performing that stunt. It was a part of Owen's super hero gimmick at the time.

Also - Bret and Vince are clearly on speaking terms now.

As far as Rena Mero is concerned, she once tried to sue Vince for 120 million dollars.

[blake639raw]

I didn't say anyone would openly 'boo' Bret (atleast that's not what I meant). What I meant to say, was that perhaps some people would be surprised (or may 'boo' a little bit) if they saw HBK being beaten to sh</>it by 5 or 6 men. Granted - it WOULD be Team Canada (and so most people would be cheering loudly anyways), but you may always get a few marky marks who would recognize that Team Canada would be engaging in a heelish act. I doubt it. HBK is so hated in Canada, and Bret is so loved, Bret could pull out an uzi and spray HBK down and still get a standing o.

[Heyman]

I doubt it. HBK is so hated in Canada, and Bret is so loved, Bret could pull out an uzi and spray HBK down and still get a standing o.

I'm not neccessarily disagreeing with that. Still - there may be a few people.

As far as Bret being heel is concerned, I think it should clearly be a Canada/USA thing like in 97'. Maybe even have Team Canada be faces in Canada, and the opposing forces (i.e. RVD, Booker T, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, etc.) be heels in Canada.

[Rob]

How can you sit their on your arse, and say "such and such will never happen"? I think Vince has proven over the years that ANYTHING can happen within the WWE. This is a guy who hired Eric freakin Bischoff for christ sakes.

As far as Bret being 'booed' is concerned, I think he'll always get a mixed crowd reaction if such a thing happened (probably more face reactions than anything, but the responses will be appropriate when needed). I think he'll basically be what Ric Flair is right now (not intially......he'll get popped like crazy initially, but over a decent time span). Remember - Shawn Michaels came back to a huge pop when he joined the nWo. However - he started getting decent heel heat over time (when he sweet chinned Booker T).

After having a stroke, being off TV for 4 years and WWF for 7, he'd get popped out the city, nevermind the building. I can say Bret won't be back doing storylines (he'll probably do an unadvertised farewell) because I know what Bret is like. He isn't Vince McMahon and isn't greedy for money or addicted to the pop. If he was, he would have been back ages ago.

I didn't say anyone would openly 'boo' Bret (atleast that's not what I meant). What I meant to say, was that perhaps some people would be surprised (or may 'boo' a little bit) if they saw HBK being beaten to shit by 5 or 6 men. Granted - it WOULD be Team Canada (and so most people would be cheering loudly anyways), but you may always get a few marky marks who would recognize that Team Canada would be engaging in a heelish act.

I'd go as far as putting my life on the line and say Team Canada would not get single boo from a paying customer in Edmonton.


Forced to do as punishment? Are you for real? I highly doubt that Vince 'forced' Owen into performing that stunt. It was a part of Owen's super hero gimmick at the time.

Where was the WWF title run Vince McMahon promised Owen Hart after Montreal to come back? Where was the "we'll make you as big as Bret in Canada" push? Oh yeah, never happened. Owen was the Blazer because he refused to do a love triangle angle over Debra with Jeff Jarrett. FACT!


As far as Rena Mero is concerned, she once tried to sue Vince for 120 million dollars.

Yeah but she never even got $1 million and she was such a nobody in Hollywood, she had to go back to get her face on TV again. And look who she was kissing as soon as she walked through the door. Vince played her big time!

[The CyNick]

I like the idea of Bret doing a Team Canada angle in principle, but in reality (which is what we have to deal with) that would never happen, nor should it.

Rob already covered why it wouldn't happen with Bret. Its insane to compare lawsuits between millionaires to someone getting humiliated on live TV and then having his brother killed on another live PPV due to negligence by the company.

Heyman, you said that Owen wasn't forced to do the stunt, well in a lot of ways he was. Originally he was being booked in an angle with Debra and Jarrett where they wanted to make it look like Owen was having an affair with Debra. Owen didn't want to do that. He nixed another angle they wanted to do with him, but I forget the details. Then they came to him with the Blazer idea, which he felt he had to do because he could only say 'no' to Vince so many time before being in jeapordy of losing his job. At the time he was building a house for his family and couldn't afford to be fired (there was no guarantee that WCW would have taken him at the time).

If you do Canada vs USA that means Team Canada have to play heels. Even if Bret agreed to work that angle (which he wouldn't becaus ehe doesn't want to be a heel and he just doesn't want to be part of any angles) it wouldn't work, just like Flair doesn't draw as a heel. Poeple want to cheer him, and when they are told to boo him, they turn away. I think the same would happen with Bret, even to a larger degree just base don what has happened to Bret over the last 5 years.

It would also screw up the push of guys like Orton, because he would be forced into a sudden babyafce turn that he is nowhere near ready for. And there are too many issues between CDN talents or US talents that would have to be dropped for no good reason.

I think its a decent idea to put all the CDN guys on one show because that way you can run Canada with the RAW crew almost exclusively. I think thats a decent idea because it would create some sense of 'home markets' for each brand. So RAW would be dominant in Canada because of the CDN talents on RAW, but on the other hand Smackdown would dominate the Mexican boarder towns because of Eddie/Rey and Chavo.

So, you dont have to bunch them all up in a faction, you just have them on the same side, and have them be faces and heels just like the American guys. I think that is far more effective for the long run.

[The CyNick]

I didn't say anyone would openly 'boo' Bret (atleast that's not what I meant). What I meant to say, was that perhaps some people would be surprised (or may 'boo' a little bit) if they saw HBK being beaten to sh</>it by 5 or 6 men. Granted - it WOULD be Team Canada (and so most people would be cheering loudly anyways), but you may always get a few marky marks who would recognize that Team Canada would be engaging in a heelish act.

As far as Bret's face pop is concerned, it would definitely out pop Hogan's Montreal ovation. I didn't want to overexaagerate (which is why I only said 5 minute standing ovation). Perhaps it would be 10 or 15 minutes....I don't know.

Dude, I dont know where you live, but I live in Canada, and I would stake my life on the fact that not one person would be booing any type of beating on HBK by any form of Team Canada. If anything they would have to gold people back from trying to join in on the attack. There might be gome girls (or gay dudes) who wouldn't want to see HBK catch a beating, but they would be too fearful for their lives to make any comment against Team Canada.

I know this sounds like I'm trying to be funny and I'm over-stating the case, but anyone who has ever been to events in Canada or lives here, knows how much people love ret and how much HBK is hated for what he did to Bret. Dont get me wrong, HBK has fans up here, but if he's up against Bret or like I said any form of Team Canada people here will be screaming for HBK to get skinned alive.

[Loose Cannon]

Dude, I dont know where you live, but I live in Canada, and I would stake my life on the fact that not one person would be booing any type of beating on HBK by any form of Team Canada. If anything they would have to gold people back from trying to join in on the attack. There might be gome girls (or gay dudes) who wouldn't want to see HBK catch a beating, but they would be too fearful for their lives to make any comment against Team Canada.

I know this sounds like I'm trying to be funny and I'm over-stating the case, but anyone who has ever been to events in Canada or lives here, knows how much people love ret and how much HBK is hated for what he did to Bret. Dont get me wrong, HBK has fans up here, but if he's up against Bret or like I said any form of Team Canada people here will be screaming for HBK to get skinned alive.


Yeah, that's the only thing I really want to see. A bunch of Canandian Wrestlers beating the sh** out of Shawn Michaels would make my day.

[Loose Cannon]

Heyman:How long do you think the Horsemen would have stayed on top with Tully Blanchard as the leader? That's more or less the exact same thing as putting Orton in charge of Evolution (except that Blanchard was somewhat over)

Yeah, but when Orton takes over Evolution, HHH and Flair will get kicked out of the group and turned on by Orton and Dave. So Orton would take over the New Evolution with say Batista, Cade, Jindrack and Maven. This would put the spotlight on Orton, ala Rock 98, and he wouldn't play second fiddle to anybody. It would be a totally different group from the Evolution right now. It would just be a group of young arrogant punks whi disrespect tradition and what not.

[Rob]

Yeah, that's the only thing I really want to see. A bunch of Canandian Wrestlers beating the sh** out of Shawn Michaels would make my day.

Well it only took one guy in Syracuse and Bret did it already in Hartford in June '97.

[Rob]

Yeah, but when Orton takes over Evolution, HHH and Flair will get kicked out of the group and turned on by Orton and Dave. So Orton would take over the New Evolution with say Batista, Cade, Jindrack and Maven. This would put the spotlight on Orton, ala Rock 98, and he wouldn't play second fiddle to anybody. It would be a totally different group from the Evolution right now. It would just be a group of young arrogant punks whi disrespect tradition and what not.

Yeah but Jindrak and Batista have the personality of cardboard and Cade ain't much better.

[The CyNick]

Yeah but Jindrak and Batista have the personality of cardboard and Cade ain't much better.

I think Jindtrak has some personality, its just that his personality would make him look like a John Cena rip off. Its up to the comapny to give them a chance to speak on TV and develop some type of personality.

Maven is the other guy who could be added to the group, and at leats he has some personality.

[Loose Cannon]

Yeah but Jindrak and Batista have the personality of cardboard and Cade ain't much better.

Yeah, but as long as Orton has the mic and acts like a complete arrogant jackass, I don't really care about them. But I think if Cade and Jindrack were pushed like the Heel Outlaws in late 97-early 98, I think they could get over. I think Cade can work the mic as a heel if he just got enough practice. Maven too. Batista, well, just make him powerbomb everybody.

[Heyman]

Heyman: Yeah, but D-X was a whole different kind of stable from Evolution. D-X got over because it was full of raunchy badass types that fit in perfectly with the Attitude era. Plus, they were faces for a lot of the time. Evolution's just another take on the Four Horsemen formula, in that they're made of a rich elitist champ and his cronies, which works when someone like Flair is in charge. Problem is, they don't identify at all with the audience, so if one of the henchmen steps up and becomes the leader, it doesn't work at all.



Maybe you have a point. You have to admit though - Orton does garner pretty decent heel heat. I'm pretty sure that he could take over as leader and continue his momentum.....especially if John Cena becomes his #1 rival on Smackdown.

[The Naitch]

That angle is too good to come true. Because we're dealing with Vince McMahon here.

Until I see it or some hint at it, I'm expecting nothing special.

[Heyman]

After having a stroke, being off TV for 4 years and WWF for 7, he'd get popped out the city, nevermind the building. I can say Bret won't be back doing storylines (he'll probably do an unadvertised farewell) because I know what Bret is like. He isn't Vince McMahon and isn't greedy for money or addicted to the pop. If he was, he would have been back ages ago.

Have you met Bret in real life? While what you say does seem to be true (i.e. Bret not being greedy for money, the face pop, etc.,), I think a strong part of him wants to please to the utmost. He knows that his fans want to see him on TV. He knows that the fans would love to see him in another angle.

While what you say is probably right, I remain optimistic. "Who knows what can happen" is my whole philosophy.


I'd go as far as putting my life on the line and say Team Canada would not get single boo from a paying customer in Edmonton.

I'd also put my life on the line and say that Jeff Hardy is a homosexual. But yes - I do agree with what you say. I guess I was just trying to take a more 'neutral' stance when I originally made the comment...... :?:



Where was the WWF title run Vince McMahon promised Owen Hart after Montreal to come back? Where was the "we'll make you as big as Bret in Canada" push? Oh yeah, never happened. Owen was the Blazer because he refused to do a love triangle angle over Debra with Jeff Jarrett. FACT!

That's a bit of an unfair comment to make. At the time, no one had idea any idea that the whole Austin/Vince angle would become so astronomically huge. Austin was the clear cut top face. Owen could've become a great main-event heel IMO, but he became a part of the whole Nation/DX feud. I wouldn't have had him JOB to Shamrock at Summerslam that year but even then, The Rock was really starting to emerge.....and there was no way the WWE should NOT have pushed him as the top heel.

Maybe the WWE did misuse Owen Hart, but Owen still did a great job in putting over younger talent.


Yeah but she never even got $1 million and she was such a nobody in Hollywood, she had to go back to get her face on TV again. And look who she was kissing as soon as she walked through the door. Vince played her big time!

True. I guess my whole point however, is that Vince doesn't always let past history deal with future transactions. I wouldn't rule out Bret returning based on his shaky history with Vince. Bret wou;dn't come back for the money....he'd come back to please his fans...who just want to see him on TV in any shape or form.

[Heyman]

That angle is too good to come true. Because we're dealing with Vince McMahon here.

Until I see it or some hint at it, I'm expecting nothing special.

I'm not expecting anything special either. Just an idea. FRom a realistic standpoint it will not happen, but I can almost guarantee that something like that would propel ratings back to where it was in 99/00 (or atleast set the wheels in motion towards that direction).

[Heyman]

Yeah, but as long as Orton has the mic and acts like a complete arrogant jackass, I don't really care about them. But I think if Cade and Jindrack were pushed like the Heel Outlaws in late 97-early 98, I think they could get over. I think Cade can work the mic as a heel if he just got enough practice. Maven too. Batista, well, just make him powerbomb everybody.

I wouldn't have 5 guys in Evolution.........just 4. I agree with everything else you say though. I'd keep Cade on Raw (make him split up from Jindrak). I think Cade, with his mic skills, could get over as a face.

Put Orton, Batista, Maven, and Jindrak on Smackdown.

[The CyNick]

But its not that Vince wouldn't agree, its Bret. Bret doesn't want to work for Vince in the sense of doing angle because he's afraid the real situations that occured between them will look like an angle created by the WWE. I mean even the whol WCW thing, if you listen to WWE's version of history you would think Vince sent Hall and Nash over to WCW to kill it off. if Bret does an angle, say with HBK, it makes all the Montreal stuff, and everything after that look like work. Which would trivialize the whole thing.

I mean look how long its taken for Bret to even agree ot show up for a farewell speech. If that doesn't tell you that Bret doesn't want to do any business (angles in otherwords) with the WWE then there is no reaching you.

[Heyman]

But its not that Vince wouldn't agree, its Bret. Bret doesn't want to work for Vince in the sense of doing angle because he's afraid the real situations that occured between them will look like an angle created by the WWE. I mean even the whol WCW thing, if you listen to WWE's version of history you would think Vince sent Hall and Nash over to WCW to kill it off. if Bret does an angle, say with HBK, it makes all the Montreal stuff, and everything after that look like work. Which would trivialize the whole thing.

I think even the markiest of the marks know that the Bret/Vince stuff was 'real'. I don't think it would be trivialized that much (if at all). I mean - everyone knows that Vince "fired" Austin a few years ago when he decided to walk out right? Now - if Austin stunned Vince and Vince were to threaten to 'fire' Austin, people would recognize the difference between the 'work' and 'shoot' (if this makes sense). Same with the Bret Hart situation.

I mean look how long its taken for Bret to even agree ot show up for a farewell speech. If that doesn't tell you that Bret doesn't want to do any business (angles in otherwords) with the WWE then there is no reaching you.

Bret has hated Vince for so many years now (and vice versa). Of course Bret wouldn't agree to do a farewell speech if he hates the owner of the company. Only recently, have Vince and Bret actually decided to put aside difference and possibly mend the fence. Bret's opinion towards Vince and the WWE seems to be changing. Bret's opinion about holding a deep grudge against Vince seems to be changing. If this is the case, why rule out the possibility of Bret doing a future angle for the company? It may not happen as soon as I would like, but maybe down the road.

In late 1998 - if I told you that Vince and Bret would have any form of a pleasant conversation one day, would you believe me?

[The CyNick]

Yes, as long as Bret was willing to do it.

The problem has never been with Vince wanting to do something with Bret, its Bret who is leary about doing something for Vince. Bret doesn't want to make more money for Vince by trivializing his life into a WWE angle, what he wants to do is say thank-you and good-bye to the fans. He's been on good terms with Vince for about a year now, maybe more, so thats still a long time for Bret not to be on TV yet. Like I said, obviously he has reservations about just showing up on TV. Doing an angle he has always said will NEVER happen because he doesn't think its right. People can hope it'll happen, but I can say that I know it wont. They say never say never in wrestling, well I'm saying 'never', and I'll be right.

In terms of Austin, I would bet that more fans think that was a work. Why? Because he ended up back on TV using his absense in part of an angle, so to the average fan this looks like its all part of the storyline. Hell, I even think the majority of wrestling fans would think that Austin getting fired from WCW was a work just because its been used an angle so much. There are people who think (stupidly) that Montral was a work because Vince did such a good job capitalizing on the character, but people who know anything, that isn't the case. So, if Bret were to come back and KO either Vince or Shawn, it would make that whole thing look like a giant work that was derailed because Owen died and Bret got hurt.

[The Icon of Elisim]

The thing that wouldn't work the most in a Team Canada fued is that there is no one to be on team america. Why start tinkering with current characters changing them into america lovers.

Lets just say that Team Canada had Bret, Benoit, Jericho, Christain, Edge, Trish, Test and Venis

Who would Team usa have? HBK (manager to counteract Bret), RVD, Booker T, Dudleyz, Lita, two random lower card guys.

Plus this idea is putting a lot of eggs into one basket. After you take out the two teams the only talent left is HHH, Batista, Orton and Kane

[Heyman]

The thing that wouldn't work the most in a Team Canada fued is that there is no one to be on team america. Why start tinkering with current characters changing them into america lovers.

Lets just say that Team Canada had Bret, Benoit, Jericho, Christain, Edge, Trish, Test and Venis

Who would Team usa have? HBK (manager to counteract Bret), RVD, Booker T, Dudleyz, Lita, two random lower card guys.

Plus this idea is putting a lot of eggs into one basket. After you take out the two teams the only talent left is HHH, Batista, Orton and Kane

In my scenerio, Orton and Batista would leave for Smackdown anyways (Edge compensation). The countering faces could be RVD, Booker T, Triple H (who turns face), Shawn Michaels, The Dudleys, and Kane (who could always turn face.....but still be a destructive force). A guy like Matt Hardy or Scott Steiner could also turn.

Then of course, you'd always have Foley, Austin, and a Rock from time to time.

That was my line of thinking.

[Nowhere Man]

But honestly, what would be the point? Orton and Batista wouldn't do any good for the SD roster, especially if it's to replace two of their biggest names (Benoit and Edge) Most of the people in those stables would gain a lot more out of singles pushes than just getting lumped into a stable. And the whole USA vs Canada feud has been milked to death by just about every wrestling promotion around.

The whole angle wouldn't do anyone any good in the long-run.

[The Icon of Elisim]

In my scenerio, Orton and Batista would leave for Smackdown anyways (Edge compensation). The countering faces could be RVD, Booker T, Triple H (who turns face), Shawn Michaels, The Dudleys, and Kane (who could always turn face.....but still be a destructive force). A guy like Matt Hardy or Scott Steiner could also turn.

Then of course, you'd always have Foley, Austin, and a Rock from time to time.

That was my line of thinking.

Oh, I see. Maybe they could change Kane's costume to red, white and blue. And they could tweak his character and say that the fire that he was in was a result of poor Russian electrical wiring and that he always wished he could live in America as a child.

[Heyman]

Oh, I see. Maybe they could change Kane's costume to red, white and blue. And they could tweak his character and say that the fire that he was in was a result of poor Russian electrical wiring and that he always wished he could live in America as a child.

lol

[Mister Sinister]

You Actually forgot a Canadian, Since Rene Dupree is actually Canadian

[Rob]

Bret has hated Vince for so many years now (and vice versa). Of course Bret wouldn't agree to do a farewell speech if he hates the owner of the company. Only recently, have Vince and Bret actually decided to put aside difference and possibly mend the fence. Bret's opinion towards Vince and the WWE seems to be changing. Bret's opinion about holding a deep grudge against Vince seems to be changing. If this is the case, why rule out the possibility of Bret doing a future angle for the company? It may not happen as soon as I would like, but maybe down the road.

In late 1998 - if I told you that Vince and Bret would have any form of a pleasant conversation one day, would you believe me?

They have been in speaking terms for years now (and some what friendly terms since his stroke) and Vince McMahon gave Bret Hart an invation to be at WrestleMania 18 to do a farewell speech and be the guest referee in the HHH vs. Jericho match and Bret refused because he doesn't want to do anything like an angle. Bret Hart has had an open invite to show up to any WWE televised show and do his farewell speech that night and he still hasn't (although I think he will someday).

I wouldn't believed a word of what you said in 1998 but that was 6 years ago and I'd like to think I'm wiser and smarter to life than I was then. I wouldn't have believed there would only be one company nationally by 2001 or that Owen Hart would have died on a live PPV or Bret Hart would have had a stroke.

[Tiken]

I would like to see Bret come back just once more, maby make a farewell speech, or crack Vince in the face, either way I would be happy, and so would 30 million other Canadians. :)

Personally I think they should hold off on WM XX and Backlash and wait till April 19th when RAW hit's Calgary, which I am heading to of course.

[Heyman]

Call them the Hart Foundation Instead

I just re-read my original post. Instead of doing a "Canada vs. America" thing again, why not just call them The Hart Foundation.


So for example, Benoit defeats HBK in Edmonton (to retain the title). Instead of cutting a "pro-Canada" promo in the next American city that they (Hart Foundation) are in (which would get 'boos' from the American crowd), they cut a NEUTRAL promo. They talk about how they are a stable and they will oppose anything that comes there way.

So basically - the FANS decide (within the next few weeks) whether this "Hart Foundation" stable is heel or face. The Hart Foundation beat up guys like Kane, Matt Hardy, etc. However, they also beat on faces such as RVD and Booker T.

Steve Austin also stays 'neutral' towards the Hart Foundation for the first few weeks.

If the fans start to love the Hart Foundation, then perhaps guys like Triple H, Evolution, Kane, and Shawn Michaels should be heels. If the opposite however, then they should be faces.

[Nowhere Man]

When has a resurrected old stable EVER worked? All 47 different versions of the nWo and D-X and the Four Horsemen were pretty much flops. And most of the time, those versions still had most of the original members.

What would be the point of a new Hart Foundation if the only original member won't even wrestle?

[Loose Cannon]

Yeah, don't FK up the legacy of the Hart Foundation. Just let it be.

[Nowhere Man]

Just let it be.

*starts singing the Beatles*

[Heyman]

When has a resurrected old stable EVER worked? All 47 different versions of the nWo and D-X and the Four Horsemen were pretty much flops. And most of the time, those versions still had most of the original members.

What would be the point of a new Hart Foundation if the only original member won't even wrestle?

DX, nWo., 4 horsemen, etc., were all "re-unified" like 6 months (or even less than that) after they broke up. The Hart Foundation on the other hand, hasn't been around for like 7 years or so.

Also - think about the controversy that this would create. Bret Hart left as the fallen leader of the Hart Foundation. If he reformed it, the fans would be mega interested.....may even bring back some old time fans who stopped watching the WWE circa 2001.

Also - think about what it would do for a guy like Chris Benoit.....who would be the centerpiece of the Hart Foundation as the World Champion.

Think about what it would do for guys like Chris Jericho, Christian, Lance Storm, Edge, and even Val Venis (all of whom, along with Chris Benoit, are the top workers on Raw). All of these men would have "significance" and would be involved in decent programs.

Test could finally establish himself as a big man with a big penis. He can feud with guys like Kane, Batsta, etc., and get key wins. He would be the 'muscle' of the group.

Like I said (in my latest post) - the FANS can decide whether the Hart Foundation should be heels or face. If the response for Bret Hart's arrival (even in the USA) is overwhelmingly positive, then I say have heel turns of mass proportions.

Have Shawn Michaels, Booker T, and RVD gradually turn heel to oppose this stable (along with Kane and Evolution). These guys don't have to be "unified" in their attemps to bring down the Hart Foundation (as that would be nonsensical), but they could be their key adversaries.

If the fans stay 'patriotic' and dislike the Hart Foundation, then have the HF be faces in Canada and heels in the USA (while their adversaries are the exact opposite).

[Rob]

We all know how over tweeners get now don't we.

[Heyman]

We all know how over tweeners get now don't we.

They wouldn't stay tweener. In a few weeks, the WWE can push them as heels or faces (based on how the crowd 'naturally' respond to them within that time).

p.s. Also - guys like Jericho, Christian, Edge, Val Venis, and Lance Storm can all cut above average to excellent promos. I'm sure that they would captivate the interest of the fans eiter way.