Dave Youell
09-30-2007, 02:33 PM
Samoa Joe Can Go Fuck Himself
Anyone who read my comments on the message board in regards to the Back to School Bash last night know that I was very unhappy over-all.
I wanted to take some time and calm down before I posted a blog. Some time has past but I am probably more angry now then I was last night, especially as more details emerge regarding the situation.
What Joe did last night was unprofessional, idiotic, self-centered and ego-driven. Over the course of six years, I have had the pleasure of working with many, many "names" and never have I seen a guy with such a "diva" complex and such a chip on their shoulder. Nor can I imagine a decision that was worse for business (and THE business) then the choices Joe made last night.
First, allow me to express two things. 1) Chris Sabin continued to demonstrate why he should absolutely be getting a bigger, better push in TNA and why his schedule should be booked solid. He's a class act and a fantastic performer who "gets" the business and had the match of the night. I could not have asked for anything more from Sabin and I certainly hope he will be apart of PCW in the future.
2). On previous occasions, Joe has been a joy to work with and gave exactly what was asked of him. I am sure it is no coincidence that "what was asked of him" was to look strong against our talent. When it came time for Joe to do something that didn't involve him looking like Hulk Hogan circa 1985, suddenly, he's not so accommodating.
I owe our fans a huge apology. Rest assured, Samoa Joe will NEVER be back in PCW unless he intends to come and give us the other half of the match he was paid for.
Allow me to explain in detail exactly what transpired. To be fair, I did not specifically speak with TNA in regards to Joe putting Kenny over. I did not care either way and said to a few guys in the past few days that I hoped Joe would put him over but if he didn't want to, it wasn't a big deal. In the past, whenever I have specifically checked with TNA on whether their talent would be willing to do business for our guys, I have been told "no problem. The business is a work."
Exactly.
And to quote a certain someone last night..."I don't care who wins or loses, I just want to have a good match." I wonder who said that.
After being told by Joe that he'd be "right down" to the locker room for forty minutes (and thus, I was unable to begin the show when I wanted to), I finally went up to his room. I told him he was free to take his time coming down since it would be some time before his match, but I just wanted to get on the same page with him. I told him he was booked against Kenny Omega and asked him if he knew of him. Joe shrugged. Since Joe had spoke to me earlier in the day about his previous two trips to Winnipeg and seemed to have a fairly solid recollection of them, I reminded him that Kenny had worked with AJ Styles on this show last year.
Joe shrugged and said "yeah, so?" I shrugged too and said "would you mind putting our guy over?"
"No way," he scoffed. "I don't do that. I'm a top guy on television. It's company policy that we don't put over anyone but TNA guys." Now, I was totally fine with that up until the line about "company policy" which I knew to be untrue. Tell me you don't want to lay down. Tell me you feel it will impact your position and reputation (even if it wouldn't), but don't lie to me.
I said "really? Styles put him over last year and they put together a match and a finish that made sense for both guys." Joe said "No way" again. He turned to walk away from me saying "there is no way that's happening."
Let me be VERY clear. I had absolutely NO problem with that. Of course I was going to inquire as to whether he minded putting our top guy over, but I thought he likely would have declined. No problem. I thanked him for his time and told him to come down whenever he wanted.
There is a huge difference between beating a guy and eating a guy. There is a huge difference between having a great match and trying to destroy a territory. Joe doesn't "get it". It makes a lot of sense to him when guys sell their ass off to make him look like a million dollars and an unstoppable killing machine. But it apparently makes "no sense" to ask him to "not kill our top guy."
I won't speak for Kenny at all. He's a class act and encouraged me to forget about it and move on. But I will mention that I am fully aware of the poor attitude Joe demonstrated in the back and his insults. There is more to the story that I won't reveal here that clearly indicate that Joe made a deliberate and malicious decision to go to the ring and make our top guy look bad.
For that, Joe can go fuck himself.
And from what I understand, I am hardly the only promoter that feels this way and our fans are hardly the only ones to walk away from a Samoa Joe match disappointed.
The match was too short and did absolutely nothing to enhance our talent or promotion. In retrospect, if Sabin/Sanchez had been the top match, I would have been thrilled. Sabin "gets it". Joe doesn't. How nice it must be for Joe to be so independently wealthy that he can execute a piss-poor match and then say "save your money and don't book me again."
When we book "names", there are certain obligations on both sides. We're expected to pay the PO, trans and accommodations and act in a professional and respectful manner. In return, we expect the talent to show up, work hard, enhance our talent and promotion and act in a professional and respectful manner. Part of that means interacting with the fans and giving them their monies worth.
On previous occasions, Joe did that. Last night, he left many fans who wished to shake his hand or get a picture, disappointed.
That fact coupled with his terrible in-ring performance angered me greatly. I'm not one to shy away from confrontations and fortunately, I had to pay my crew so I did not get the chance to go speak with Joe immediately. I was encouraged by some to go talk to him and by others to let it go. "What can you do?" was an oft-repeated question. I made the decision to let it go.
But as I thought about it further, I didn't want to be accused of being a guy that didn't have the balls to express my unhappiness face to face. I promptly marched up to Joe's room where he was enjoying his third or fourth quarter pounder of the day. I reminded him of his flight information and informed him that someone would be at the hotel in the morning to drive him and Sabin.
I then asked to speak to him. Sabin walked into the next room, clearly sensing that I wanted to speak with Joe about a serious matter. I asked him if he was unhappy or upset with anything. He said "not at all" and asked why I was asking. I said "well, Joe, I guess I was wondering why you ate my top guy."
He said "what did you want me to do, get dropped on my head?" I said "no. I wanted a good match that was a positive for our talent and promotion. That match killed our top guy and hurt my ability to draw moving forward."
Joe invited me in and asked me to sit down. He asked me to explain what I would have wanted different out of the match. I politely explained that I expected the match to go longer and I expected our guy to come out of it looking good and I expected the fans to be willing to pay to see Joe again in the future. I explained that none of that happened.
Joe didn't agree to disagree. He didn't express that perhaps their was a misunderstanding. He proceeded to bury Kenny in the most ridiculous way possible. One guy in that match moved around. One guy was not blown up and huffing and puffing. One guy gave a crap. Guess which guy that was?
While Joe took the time to pay me lip service and try to placate me, he contradicted himself several times. He made ridiculous and lame excuses. The one honest thing he repeatedly said was "I'm not going to give you the answer you want."
I explained that I was not looking for a certain answer. I, as the guy paying the bills, was simply looking to express my unhappiness. It made no sense to kill our top guy. It was bad for business. If Joe had any sense, he would have realised that. We could continue to book him and make money or we could do what happened last night.
Joe rejected my opinion that the match was too short. I explained that I'd rather have a good 10 minute match then a bad 20 minute one, but that was a bad 8 minute match. After a few more excuses which Joe usually contradicted on his own without my help, I said "look, good work is good work. That wasn't good work." Sabin, Petey and Styles can come in, have a great attitude and have a fantastic match with Kenny. But Joe couldn't. That says a lot about Joe.
I expressed my feeling that the fans didn't get what they paid for. Joe scoffed and pointed out that it was a long show. I said "yeah, WE gave them what they paid for but YOU didn't. They paid for Samoa Joe." His reply "and they saw Samoa Joe." I said, "They didn't pay to SEE Samoa Joe, they paid to experience a quality Samoa Joe match." They didn't get that.
Joe actually said to me "if you wanted your guy to look good, then you shouldn't have booked him against me." I didn't make Joe the highest paid guy on the show because I wanted him to make our talent look bad!
From a business perspective, I asked him how that match was a positive. How was that going to help PCW draw? How was that going to set up Joe or any other TNA talent to return to Winnipeg and draw a crowd? Again, Joe's response was that I shouldn't have booked him then. I shook my head in disbelief.
When Ric Flair was NWA World Champion, he travelled the US making every home town guy look like a million dollars because it was GOOD for business, built up the territory and ensured repeat bookings and money for everyone.
One thing Joe said was that he was doing what he felt was best for his promotion. Wrong. Wherever you go, you're a representative of TNA. Everything you do, you're selling PPV's. All Joe did last night was show that he's not a very good worker and, unless a faster and better worker makes him look good, he's got nothing.
Quite honestly, Joe forgot where he came from. Who would Joe be if guys hadn't been willing to make him look good or help him out? Joe made a name for himself squashing smaller guys. Well that gimmick is getting old.
I haven't been around 20 years. I've been around six. Worked with a lot of good talent, names and produced some pretty big shows. Don't give me the "I think I know better" bullcrap. I agree - you SHOULD know better.
If other promoters ask for my opinion I will tell them honestly - Joe is over-rated, out of shape and not worth his asking price. Book Chris Sabin. Book AJ Styles. Book Chris Daniels. Book Petey Williams. Don't book Samoa Joe unless it's a "going out of business" show. He'll successfully give you what you need in that regard.
I'm not writing this to bury Joe. I respect TNA and their talent. I don't respect Joe. Not anymore. I owe an explanation and apology to our fans and this is it. Our show was good - very good. Better then anything else you'll see in this city. Some promotions would kill to have our worst match on top of their card. But it wasn't good enough for PCW and it wasn't good enough for us.
For that, I sincerely apologize.
A few notes on last night.
AJ Sanchez had a fantastic match with Chris Sabin. That speaks volumes about Sanchez as a talent and about Sabin as a person. My sincere thanks to both guys.
Due to Chevy's injury, Don Douglas was put in a position where the match changed on him. I thought he worked very hard and put forth a great effort.
Mike Angels and Adam Knight had another great match as did Antonio Scorpio Jr and Nate Hardy. Scorpio and Nate had a ton of crowd heat. This was their third straight match working face/face and to keep getting that reaction says alot about them. I remember being against the idea of them working three shows ago and I was VERY wrong.
I'm an honest guy and I felt we should have drawn better. We drew great, but could have been better. Though, with Chris Sabin as a surprise, we sold tickets based on Joe alone. Thank GOD we brought Sabin in!!
Kenny never, ever has to defend himself to anyone. If a guy like Joe or anyone else doesn't want to come to work when given the chance to work with a talent like Kenny, then so be it. It's their loss. Kenny's future lays waaaay beyond Winnipeg. I feel really bad for him and am sure he is disappointed. But fortunately, he's got a match with Ultimo Dragon this weekend and I encourage everyone to go see that show. That match alone is worth the ticket price.
Our DVD of the Fifth Anniversary show is now available. Our production guy upgraded his equipment, including a boom cam (which, by the way did have a video monitor so he knew exactly what he was filming).
I take complete responsibility for the negatives on last night's show. I don't want to read anyone being critical of the talent. For the most part, they worked very hard and had great performances. Everything that was not as tight as it should have been from booking to pacing to technical issues all fall at my feet. I'll make it up to you all next show. I promise.
I also don't want to get too 'down' on the show. For those "competitors" who couldn't bring themselves to check out our event, trust me, you couldn't put that show on in your wildest dreams. It was very good. But not good enough.
This is a personal blog and my personal opinion. I'm frustrated. I appreciate the support of the fans and I hope you'll come back on Oct. 25th and let us erase the memories of Samoa Joe with a show that will do just that. I fucking guarantee THAT
Anyone who read my comments on the message board in regards to the Back to School Bash last night know that I was very unhappy over-all.
I wanted to take some time and calm down before I posted a blog. Some time has past but I am probably more angry now then I was last night, especially as more details emerge regarding the situation.
What Joe did last night was unprofessional, idiotic, self-centered and ego-driven. Over the course of six years, I have had the pleasure of working with many, many "names" and never have I seen a guy with such a "diva" complex and such a chip on their shoulder. Nor can I imagine a decision that was worse for business (and THE business) then the choices Joe made last night.
First, allow me to express two things. 1) Chris Sabin continued to demonstrate why he should absolutely be getting a bigger, better push in TNA and why his schedule should be booked solid. He's a class act and a fantastic performer who "gets" the business and had the match of the night. I could not have asked for anything more from Sabin and I certainly hope he will be apart of PCW in the future.
2). On previous occasions, Joe has been a joy to work with and gave exactly what was asked of him. I am sure it is no coincidence that "what was asked of him" was to look strong against our talent. When it came time for Joe to do something that didn't involve him looking like Hulk Hogan circa 1985, suddenly, he's not so accommodating.
I owe our fans a huge apology. Rest assured, Samoa Joe will NEVER be back in PCW unless he intends to come and give us the other half of the match he was paid for.
Allow me to explain in detail exactly what transpired. To be fair, I did not specifically speak with TNA in regards to Joe putting Kenny over. I did not care either way and said to a few guys in the past few days that I hoped Joe would put him over but if he didn't want to, it wasn't a big deal. In the past, whenever I have specifically checked with TNA on whether their talent would be willing to do business for our guys, I have been told "no problem. The business is a work."
Exactly.
And to quote a certain someone last night..."I don't care who wins or loses, I just want to have a good match." I wonder who said that.
After being told by Joe that he'd be "right down" to the locker room for forty minutes (and thus, I was unable to begin the show when I wanted to), I finally went up to his room. I told him he was free to take his time coming down since it would be some time before his match, but I just wanted to get on the same page with him. I told him he was booked against Kenny Omega and asked him if he knew of him. Joe shrugged. Since Joe had spoke to me earlier in the day about his previous two trips to Winnipeg and seemed to have a fairly solid recollection of them, I reminded him that Kenny had worked with AJ Styles on this show last year.
Joe shrugged and said "yeah, so?" I shrugged too and said "would you mind putting our guy over?"
"No way," he scoffed. "I don't do that. I'm a top guy on television. It's company policy that we don't put over anyone but TNA guys." Now, I was totally fine with that up until the line about "company policy" which I knew to be untrue. Tell me you don't want to lay down. Tell me you feel it will impact your position and reputation (even if it wouldn't), but don't lie to me.
I said "really? Styles put him over last year and they put together a match and a finish that made sense for both guys." Joe said "No way" again. He turned to walk away from me saying "there is no way that's happening."
Let me be VERY clear. I had absolutely NO problem with that. Of course I was going to inquire as to whether he minded putting our top guy over, but I thought he likely would have declined. No problem. I thanked him for his time and told him to come down whenever he wanted.
There is a huge difference between beating a guy and eating a guy. There is a huge difference between having a great match and trying to destroy a territory. Joe doesn't "get it". It makes a lot of sense to him when guys sell their ass off to make him look like a million dollars and an unstoppable killing machine. But it apparently makes "no sense" to ask him to "not kill our top guy."
I won't speak for Kenny at all. He's a class act and encouraged me to forget about it and move on. But I will mention that I am fully aware of the poor attitude Joe demonstrated in the back and his insults. There is more to the story that I won't reveal here that clearly indicate that Joe made a deliberate and malicious decision to go to the ring and make our top guy look bad.
For that, Joe can go fuck himself.
And from what I understand, I am hardly the only promoter that feels this way and our fans are hardly the only ones to walk away from a Samoa Joe match disappointed.
The match was too short and did absolutely nothing to enhance our talent or promotion. In retrospect, if Sabin/Sanchez had been the top match, I would have been thrilled. Sabin "gets it". Joe doesn't. How nice it must be for Joe to be so independently wealthy that he can execute a piss-poor match and then say "save your money and don't book me again."
When we book "names", there are certain obligations on both sides. We're expected to pay the PO, trans and accommodations and act in a professional and respectful manner. In return, we expect the talent to show up, work hard, enhance our talent and promotion and act in a professional and respectful manner. Part of that means interacting with the fans and giving them their monies worth.
On previous occasions, Joe did that. Last night, he left many fans who wished to shake his hand or get a picture, disappointed.
That fact coupled with his terrible in-ring performance angered me greatly. I'm not one to shy away from confrontations and fortunately, I had to pay my crew so I did not get the chance to go speak with Joe immediately. I was encouraged by some to go talk to him and by others to let it go. "What can you do?" was an oft-repeated question. I made the decision to let it go.
But as I thought about it further, I didn't want to be accused of being a guy that didn't have the balls to express my unhappiness face to face. I promptly marched up to Joe's room where he was enjoying his third or fourth quarter pounder of the day. I reminded him of his flight information and informed him that someone would be at the hotel in the morning to drive him and Sabin.
I then asked to speak to him. Sabin walked into the next room, clearly sensing that I wanted to speak with Joe about a serious matter. I asked him if he was unhappy or upset with anything. He said "not at all" and asked why I was asking. I said "well, Joe, I guess I was wondering why you ate my top guy."
He said "what did you want me to do, get dropped on my head?" I said "no. I wanted a good match that was a positive for our talent and promotion. That match killed our top guy and hurt my ability to draw moving forward."
Joe invited me in and asked me to sit down. He asked me to explain what I would have wanted different out of the match. I politely explained that I expected the match to go longer and I expected our guy to come out of it looking good and I expected the fans to be willing to pay to see Joe again in the future. I explained that none of that happened.
Joe didn't agree to disagree. He didn't express that perhaps their was a misunderstanding. He proceeded to bury Kenny in the most ridiculous way possible. One guy in that match moved around. One guy was not blown up and huffing and puffing. One guy gave a crap. Guess which guy that was?
While Joe took the time to pay me lip service and try to placate me, he contradicted himself several times. He made ridiculous and lame excuses. The one honest thing he repeatedly said was "I'm not going to give you the answer you want."
I explained that I was not looking for a certain answer. I, as the guy paying the bills, was simply looking to express my unhappiness. It made no sense to kill our top guy. It was bad for business. If Joe had any sense, he would have realised that. We could continue to book him and make money or we could do what happened last night.
Joe rejected my opinion that the match was too short. I explained that I'd rather have a good 10 minute match then a bad 20 minute one, but that was a bad 8 minute match. After a few more excuses which Joe usually contradicted on his own without my help, I said "look, good work is good work. That wasn't good work." Sabin, Petey and Styles can come in, have a great attitude and have a fantastic match with Kenny. But Joe couldn't. That says a lot about Joe.
I expressed my feeling that the fans didn't get what they paid for. Joe scoffed and pointed out that it was a long show. I said "yeah, WE gave them what they paid for but YOU didn't. They paid for Samoa Joe." His reply "and they saw Samoa Joe." I said, "They didn't pay to SEE Samoa Joe, they paid to experience a quality Samoa Joe match." They didn't get that.
Joe actually said to me "if you wanted your guy to look good, then you shouldn't have booked him against me." I didn't make Joe the highest paid guy on the show because I wanted him to make our talent look bad!
From a business perspective, I asked him how that match was a positive. How was that going to help PCW draw? How was that going to set up Joe or any other TNA talent to return to Winnipeg and draw a crowd? Again, Joe's response was that I shouldn't have booked him then. I shook my head in disbelief.
When Ric Flair was NWA World Champion, he travelled the US making every home town guy look like a million dollars because it was GOOD for business, built up the territory and ensured repeat bookings and money for everyone.
One thing Joe said was that he was doing what he felt was best for his promotion. Wrong. Wherever you go, you're a representative of TNA. Everything you do, you're selling PPV's. All Joe did last night was show that he's not a very good worker and, unless a faster and better worker makes him look good, he's got nothing.
Quite honestly, Joe forgot where he came from. Who would Joe be if guys hadn't been willing to make him look good or help him out? Joe made a name for himself squashing smaller guys. Well that gimmick is getting old.
I haven't been around 20 years. I've been around six. Worked with a lot of good talent, names and produced some pretty big shows. Don't give me the "I think I know better" bullcrap. I agree - you SHOULD know better.
If other promoters ask for my opinion I will tell them honestly - Joe is over-rated, out of shape and not worth his asking price. Book Chris Sabin. Book AJ Styles. Book Chris Daniels. Book Petey Williams. Don't book Samoa Joe unless it's a "going out of business" show. He'll successfully give you what you need in that regard.
I'm not writing this to bury Joe. I respect TNA and their talent. I don't respect Joe. Not anymore. I owe an explanation and apology to our fans and this is it. Our show was good - very good. Better then anything else you'll see in this city. Some promotions would kill to have our worst match on top of their card. But it wasn't good enough for PCW and it wasn't good enough for us.
For that, I sincerely apologize.
A few notes on last night.
AJ Sanchez had a fantastic match with Chris Sabin. That speaks volumes about Sanchez as a talent and about Sabin as a person. My sincere thanks to both guys.
Due to Chevy's injury, Don Douglas was put in a position where the match changed on him. I thought he worked very hard and put forth a great effort.
Mike Angels and Adam Knight had another great match as did Antonio Scorpio Jr and Nate Hardy. Scorpio and Nate had a ton of crowd heat. This was their third straight match working face/face and to keep getting that reaction says alot about them. I remember being against the idea of them working three shows ago and I was VERY wrong.
I'm an honest guy and I felt we should have drawn better. We drew great, but could have been better. Though, with Chris Sabin as a surprise, we sold tickets based on Joe alone. Thank GOD we brought Sabin in!!
Kenny never, ever has to defend himself to anyone. If a guy like Joe or anyone else doesn't want to come to work when given the chance to work with a talent like Kenny, then so be it. It's their loss. Kenny's future lays waaaay beyond Winnipeg. I feel really bad for him and am sure he is disappointed. But fortunately, he's got a match with Ultimo Dragon this weekend and I encourage everyone to go see that show. That match alone is worth the ticket price.
Our DVD of the Fifth Anniversary show is now available. Our production guy upgraded his equipment, including a boom cam (which, by the way did have a video monitor so he knew exactly what he was filming).
I take complete responsibility for the negatives on last night's show. I don't want to read anyone being critical of the talent. For the most part, they worked very hard and had great performances. Everything that was not as tight as it should have been from booking to pacing to technical issues all fall at my feet. I'll make it up to you all next show. I promise.
I also don't want to get too 'down' on the show. For those "competitors" who couldn't bring themselves to check out our event, trust me, you couldn't put that show on in your wildest dreams. It was very good. But not good enough.
This is a personal blog and my personal opinion. I'm frustrated. I appreciate the support of the fans and I hope you'll come back on Oct. 25th and let us erase the memories of Samoa Joe with a show that will do just that. I fucking guarantee THAT