Okay, Jericho aside (Small No Mercy Spoilers, maybe)

[Kane Knight]

I distinctly remember someone saying that most fans wouldn't be clued in about the whole SAVE_US.222 rumors.

I didn't see No Mercy, so when Vince promised the fans what they wanted, was the "Jericho" chant enough to finally get rid of this silly notion that marks have no clue about what's going on over teh interwebz?

(Which, really, the "You screwed Matt!" deal should have told even the slowest motherfucker on this board)

[Lord-Of-Darkness]

Yeah, Vince acknowledged it. He said he'd give the fans what they want, and they crowd chanted 'Y2J!' repeatedly. Vince smirked and said 'I'm not gonna give you that'

[Dave Youell]

Whilst I agree that the net base is bigger than I think most people give it credit for, you could argue that say 25% of the fans there were net fans, which is enough to make everyone else there start chanting Y2J. Plus Chicago is generally a smark crowd from previous shows. It happened with Kennedy a few weeks ago.

Thing is the net population will always be growing, I mean once some mark google’s a wrestler and finds a forum they will start to read the in’s and outs of how everything works.

With the ‘We Want Matt’ thing, Matt and Lita were together on screen, then he went in the middle of a storyline with Kane and then she ended up with Edge, so from the mark’s POV wanting Matt again may not be from a smark view, but a mark.

I do think that the net base is massive and growing everyday, and is bigger than Vince would probably like to think it is, but that net crowd are also the most loyal as we all think we are on the inside and therefore can see the product at more of a base level. Because of this, it’s not in Vince’s best interest to appease us all the time, as the majority of the time we will watch regardless. Anyone that says different to me on this forum is a liar, as why would you read forums about a product you have no interest in.

[Hanso Amore]

I honestly think Vince underestimates the Web. In internet is the world these days, and he has to realize that now alot more people get their news from the web. Fans are more in-tune than they think. Alot are still marks, but they hear rumors and what not. Vince still thinks in 92 with Mene Genes hotline.

[RP]

I woulda started a " We Want Adolfo Bresciano !" chant.

[Kane Knight]

Whilst I agree that the net base is bigger than I think most people give it credit for, you could argue that say 25% of the fans there were net fans, which is enough to make everyone else there start chanting Y2J. Plus Chicago is generally a smark crowd from previous shows. It happened with Kennedy a few weeks ago.

Thing is the net population will always be growing, I mean once some mark google’s a wrestler and finds a forum they will start to read the in’s and outs of how everything works.

With the ‘We Want Matt’ thing, Matt and Lita were together on screen, then he went in the middle of a storyline with Kane and then she ended up with Edge, so from the mark’s POV wanting Matt again may not be from a smark view, but a mark.

I do think that the net base is massive and growing everyday, and is bigger than Vince would probably like to think it is, but that net crowd are also the most loyal as we all think we are on the inside and therefore can see the product at more of a base level. Because of this, it’s not in Vince’s best interest to appease us all the time, as the majority of the time we will watch regardless. Anyone that says different to me on this forum is a liar, as why would you read forums about a product you have no interest in.

I'm not even talking about smarks. As cute as your backwards justifications are, they're not necessary.

I'm talking abotu an internet presence. Smarks are as out of touch with what the fans want in 99% of cases as Vince is.

[Outsider]

I think there is another element to the Jericho side of it. If you see Save_us.222 and have no idea what the hell it is, the first thing you will try and do to find out is look on the internet.

So a lot of people who would not normally be internet fans, still see the rumours and news and know that this is possibly something to do with Jericho and that he might be coming back.

[Dave Youell]

I'm not even talking about smarks. As cute as your backwards justifications are, they're not necessary.

I'm talking abotu an internet presence. Smarks are as out of touch with what the fans want in 99% of cases as Vince is.
Hey I agree with you! I was just giving evidence on how/why the other stuff happened, what’s up with you today? You looking for an argument?

[Kane Knight]

Dave, I really think you're digging too much into that.

I think you really want me to be "looking for a fight."

Your evidence is piss-poor, sounds like retrofitting the scenario, and you still talk about smarks, which was off the mark to begin with. No pun intended.

Continuing to assert that I'm looking for a fight won't make you any less wrong, but you will use it as a defense anyway.

[Dave Youell]

Your evidence is piss-poor, sounds like retrofitting the scenario, and you still talk about smarks, which was off the mark to begin with. No pun intended.


A crowd generally will follow what groups of people go with.

Weather it be Cena Sucks, We Want Matt, or in last nights case Y2J

If a portion of last nights audience starting chanting Y2J and everyone started talking, internet fans to none internet fans, it’s not outside the possibility that some of the fans chanting didn’t know about the link between the video and Jericho until people around them in the stands told them, thus building up the excitement.

None of what I say is fact, it’s based on what I think.

I’m sorry I’m not as good as debates as you are, I know you can tear me to shreds which is why I don’t enjoy these convo’s with you as they always go down the same route. But you won’t except anything I have to say on the matter will you?

[Kane Knight]

A crowd generally will follow what groups of people go with.

Weather it be Cena Sucks, We Want Matt, or in last nights case Y2J

If a portion of last nights audience starting chanting Y2J and everyone started talking, internet fans to none internet fans, it’s not outside the possibility that some of the fans chanting didn’t know about the link between the video and Jericho until people around them in the stands told them, thus building up the excitement.

Assuming it took. That's a pretty big logical leap, both in the case of the Hardy chants and the Jericho chants. It's not just what you think, it's how you think it that counts. And I'll get to your complaints that you can't debate as well as me later, but how you debate doesn't matter if what you're debating is based on a logical fallacy or a poor assumption.

Cena chants, along with other crowd chants, are relatively easy given the predisposition. You're trying to tell me that without being savvy to the SAVE_US.222/Jericho connection, the crowd was predisposed to cheer for a wrestler they had no reason to expect to be there. That's a major problem, because it supposes to the point of breaking suspended disbelief.

I’m sorry I’m not as good as debates as you are, I know you can tear me to shreds which is why I don’t enjoy these convo’s with you as they always go down the same route. But you won’t except anything I have to say on the matter will you?

Ahhhh...The persecution card. How lovely it is to see you. I was pretty sure it would be another hour or two before someone pulled that one.

So here's the thing: You're not debating. You're grandstanding. Instead of backing up your opinions in a well thought out manner, you are dismissing mine by accusing me of trying to start a fight, or saying I won't accept anything you say. But I'll play ball here, for a second:

What am I supposed to be accepting? Your half-cooked theories or the poor defenses you've put up?

I'd recommend thinking first, instead of justifying later. It would save you from having to defend against sinking ship statements that wither under the light of scrutiny. You're assuming too much and reading too deeply, and ironically, you've actually managed to miss the forest for the trees in the process of several recent posts (And I'm talking your argument with Alienoid, and if I really wanted to start an argument, I probably would have started with that...). Thinking things through will greatly alleviate that, along with the need to ascribe behaviors to others simply because they disagree with such shoestring arguments.

[Dave Youell]

You win again

[Destor]

I would just like to point out the Chicago is the biggest smark town in the states.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Is it just me, or are smark towns getting more markish, though? I can't remember the last time we had a "Toronto" audience to go against the grain. Crowds seem to lap up what the WWE throws at them these days.

Also, rather than trying to please non-internet fans, who will stop watching when they realise that wrestling's not cool anymore (and hasn't been for years), they should focus on their target demographic, and hope that more and more people stumble into an introverted industry?

[TerranRich]

Kane Knight, please remove stick from ass, THEN speak.