The BDC Approved RoH thread for 12/17/05

[BigDaddyCool]

Yeah, shut up, WWKD just sent me the dvd, so I' watching it now. The opening match is Jimmy Rave v some Milian Connection or something. I didn't really catch his name. The commentary is subpar, but it is only a local promotion, so it isn't that bad. The ring itsself is tiny. The match so far is slow and boring.

[BigDaddyCool]

Still in the Jimmy Rave/Milian match, they had some leap frogging, that was pointless. I am suprised that most of the match has acctaully been matt based chain wrestling, but boring.

[redoneja]

Which event is it and who's on the card?

[BigDaddyCool]

Their ring is so wobbly. It looks like a trampoline. Jimmy Rave just applies the crippler crossface, but milan gets to the rope. They have been using a lot moves that would be finishers in WWE. It is kind of annoying.

[BigDaddyCool]

Which event is it and who's on the card?

Final Battle '05. I don't know the card.

[BigDaddyCool]

Rave and Milan look like graduates of the John Cena school of selling and psychology.

Also, I hate Jimmy Rave, how dare he steal the pedigree. Only HHH can use that move.

[Innovator]

You got Low Ki/KENTA, which is a great match

[BigDaddyCool]

Second match just started, Azrieal or something v. Colt Cabana. Finally someone I have heard of.

Also, they were talking with the RoH champion between the matches. He actaully said that the RoH title is the most presigous title in the wrestling world today. I got a good laugh.

[Innovator]

Rave and Milan look like graduates of the John Cena school of selling and psychology.

Also, I hate Jimmy Rave, how dare he steal the pedigree. Only HHH can use that move.Also I hate Jimmy Rave for more than just stealing a pedigree

[BigDaddyCool]

You got Low Ki/KENTA, which is a great match

I hate Senshi.

[BigDaddyCool]

Colt Cabana looks huge in the match. I know Cabana has to be no bigger than like 6 foot 220/230 though.

[Kane Knight]

Shut up, you're not giving it a fair chance! You're biased! WAAAAAH!

[BigDaddyCool]

I didn't really catch mutch of the Cabana match.

[BigDaddyCool]

Out comes Homicide, but he is all hurt and shit.

[BigDaddyCool]

Shut up, you're not giving it a fair chance! You're biased! WAAAAAH!

I'll give your face a fair chance with my fist.

[BigDaddyCool]

Homiside just threatened to kill Steve Corino for injuring him. Then he said if Cabana interfered, he would "fuck him up." It is like he is a mini mexican Taz with no talent.

[BigDaddyCool]

Looks like we Claudio v Nigel something. Isn't Nigel champion now?

[BigDaddyCool]

So does every match start with the same tie up to a knee press to the ground?

[BigDaddyCool]

Why is Claudio just letting Nigel prance around?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Nigel is Champion now. LOL at you getting annoyed because they are using moves that would be finishers in the WWE. You mean someone busted out a body slam?

[BigDaddyCool]

What the hell is a rule break? Why not just dq them or something? That is retarded.

[Mr. Pierre]

In a Pure Rules match, each wrestler gets 3 rope breaks a piece.

[BigDaddyCool]

Nigel is Champion now. LOL at you getting annoyed because they are using moves that would be finishers in the WWE. You mean someone busted out a body slam?
No, shut up. I don't know what they are called but they look painful only for the guy to pop right back up.

[BigDaddyCool]

In a Pure Rules match, each wrestler gets 3 rope breaks a piece.
Oh, so what does that mean?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Why is Claudio just letting Nigel prance around?

Why does Triple H take eight hours to get to the ring? You sound like you're nitpicking, dude. ROH just has a different style to the WWE. It's treated as more of a sport than the WWE's approach.

[BigDaddyCool]

Well, we are watching kid nation.

[BigDaddyCool]

Why does Triple H take eight hours to get to the ring? You sound like you're nitpicking, dude. ROH just has a different style to the WWE. It's treated as more of a sport than the WWE's approach.
I am really trying to like it. But when some spiky hair englishman starts airplaning aronnd the ring and the other guy just stands there. That is dumb. Why isn't he winning the match?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Oh, so what does that mean?

In a Pure Rules Match, you're not allowed to break or bend the rules. The title changes hands on a disqualification, and I believe a countout. You have three rope breaks during the match, and after that, if you get to the ropes during a submission, the move is not barred. Ropes could also theoretically be used against an opponent with no rope breaks.

Also, if you use a right hand, or something technically illegal of the like, you get a warning. Three warnings and you are disqualified.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I am really trying to like it. But when some spiky hair englishman starts airplaning aronnd the ring and the other guy just stands there. That is dumb. Why isn't he winning the match?

It is a fair gripe, but at the time, I think Claudio was a lot less established than he is now. He didn't want to rush into things. You see posing during matches everywhere. Usually a more confident competitor does it to get into the head of his opponent.

[BigDaddyCool]

Ah, that makes sence. I don't think the announcers mentioned that.

[Mr. Nerfect]

No, shut up. I don't know what they are called but they look painful only for the guy to pop right back up.

I still say that's the WWE's conditioning. Sometimes the indie guys over the top with moves, but the WWE has conditioned you to expect big moves only to end the match, not to wear down the opponent until the end.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Ah, that makes sence. I don't think the announcers mentioned that.

Usually they gloss over them, but obviously not on this DVD.

They're quite nifty rules. I'd love to see MVP in a match like that.

[BigDaddyCool]

It is a fair gripe, but at the time, I think Claudio was a lot less established than he is now. He didn't want to rush into things. You see posing during matches everywhere. Usually a more confident competitor does it to get into the head of his opponent.

Yeah, but still. I would kick someone's ass if they started prancing about during the match.

[BigDaddyCool]

Usually they gloss over them, but obviously not on this DVD.

They're quite nifty rules. I'd love to see MVP in a match like that.

It is a neat idea to actaully change the rules of the match to be more strict for once instead of take rules away. I like the idea.

I have mentioned before I would love if WWE has a real no hold barred match which means that any hold or throw is legal, but no weapons or something.

[St. Jimmy]

From Wiki:

Matches for the Pure Championship are conducted under three simple Pure Rules:

Each wrestler has three rope breaks to stop submission holds and pinfalls during the match. After a wrestler exhausts his rope breaks, submission and pin attempts under the ropes by the opponent are considered legal.
There are no closed-fist punches to the face allowed in a Pure match, only open-handed slaps or chops to the face are allowed. Punches to other parts of the body (save for low-blows) are permitted. The first use of a closed fist will get a warning, and the second will cause the wrestler to be penalized a rope break. If he is already out of rope breaks, he will be disqualified.
A wrestler is subject to a twenty count by the referee if the wrestler goes to the floor. While not a rule itself, it is worth noting that unlike other championships, the Pure championship can change hands on a disqualification or count out.

[BigDaddyCool]

That is very interesting.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It is a neat idea to actaully change the rules of the match to be more strict for once instead of take rules away. I like the idea.

I have mentioned before I would love if WWE has a real no hold barred match which means that any hold or throw is legal, but no weapons or something.

That's what a No Holds Barred Match should be. No rope breaks, any kind of move allowed. No Disqualification should be a step up from it, in that you cannot lose for violating the rules, but maybe keep it so that you can still get counted out. A Street Fight is basically No Holds Barred, No Countout, No Disqualification.

[Mr. Nerfect]

From Wiki:

Matches for the Pure Championship are conducted under three simple Pure Rules:

Each wrestler has three rope breaks to stop submission holds and pinfalls during the match. After a wrestler exhausts his rope breaks, submission and pin attempts under the ropes by the opponent are considered legal.
There are no closed-fist punches to the face allowed in a Pure match, only open-handed slaps or chops to the face are allowed. Punches to other parts of the body (save for low-blows) are permitted. The first use of a closed fist will get a warning, and the second will cause the wrestler to be penalized a rope break. If he is already out of rope breaks, he will be disqualified.
A wrestler is subject to a twenty count by the referee if the wrestler goes to the floor. While not a rule itself, it is worth noting that unlike other championships, the Pure championship can change hands on a disqualification or count out.

Ah, yes, that's right.

I'm hoping that ROH holds a Pure Rules Tournament soon. They seem to be having more and more annual events now that they've got PPV and stuff, so they could very easily insert a tournament for a Pure Rules Cup, or something.

[BigDaddyCool]

That's what a No Holds Barred Match should be. No rope breaks, any kind of move allowed. No Disqualification should be a step up from it, in that you cannot lose for violating the rules, but maybe keep it so that you can still get counted out. A Street Fight is basically No Holds Barred, No Countout, No Disqualification.

No, I would still have rope breaks in a no holds barred match.

[Innovator]

You up to Dragon/Marufuji yet?

[BigDaddyCool]

No, we stopped and watched kid nation, and now Private Practice.

[Kane Knight]

I still say that's the WWE's conditioning. Sometimes the indie guys over the top with moves, but the WWE has conditioned you to expect big moves only to end the match, not to wear down the opponent until the end.

Why exactly would big moves be used to wear somebody down? Isn't that kind of the point of big moves? Why, exactly, SHOULD a Tombstone or a Pedigree or a stunner be used to wear someone down? Even in the tenuous grasp of psychology wrestling posesses, that's absurd.

[BigDaddyCool]

I still say that's the WWE's conditioning. Sometimes the indie guys over the top with moves, but the WWE has conditioned you to expect big moves only to end the match, not to wear down the opponent until the end.

Ur dum

[Kane Knight]

Alienoid had better never complain about Cena's psychology after making that statement.

[BigDaddyCool]

Alienoid had better never complain about Cena's psychology after making that statement.

You know, I would mind if they were used as moves to wear their opponet down if the opponet didn't pop right back up. The problem isn't the move, it is the lack of selling. I remeber one joker went for the crossface only for his opponet to get to the ropes and no-sell, also no nagging shoulder for the rest of the match. It either makes the crossface look like crap, or make Benoit look like the only person who knows how to properly lock in said move.

[IC Champion]

I still say that's the WWE's conditioning. Sometimes the indie guys over the top with moves, but the WWE has conditioned you to expect big moves only to end the match, not to wear down the opponent until the end.
You have no idea what ring physcology is do you?

[Kane Knight]

You know, I would mind if they were used as moves to wear their opponet down if the opponet didn't pop right back up. The problem isn't the move, it is the lack of selling. I remeber one joker went for the crossface only for his opponet to get to the ropes and no-sell, also no nagging shoulder for the rest of the match. It either makes the crossface look like crap, or make Benoit look like the only person who knows how to properly lock in said move.

Yeah, that's the part that's reminiscent of Cena's super no-selll that the smarks were all bitchy about.

[Innovator]

You know, I would mind if they were used as moves to wear their opponet down if the opponet didn't pop right back up. The problem isn't the move, it is the lack of selling. I remeber one joker went for the crossface only for his opponet to get to the ropes and no-sell, also no nagging shoulder for the rest of the match. It either makes the crossface look like crap, or make Benoit look like the only person who knows how to properly lock in said move.Honestly that bothers me too. To be fair most of the roster is getting better at it, but you still have glaring spotfests.

[BigDaddyCool]

So far RoH reminds me of highschool football. That isn't ment as an insult. But the production value is that of a really good high a/v class, the wrestling is still mostly offence based just like high school foot ball is all about offence. They are really focusing on scoring but they don't grasp the finer points of defence, running down the clock or things like that. Like wise, RoH seems to be doing spots for the sake of it looks cool for the moment. And by spots, I mean more than high spots, but even the chain wrestling. Their are just a series of non sequitur spots that end in a pinfall or submission.

Now it is possible that the matches get better as so far I've only seen the 3 mention above. And I still plan on watching them all to give it a fair shake. But I believe I've seen enough wrestling to figure out where this is going.

[Kane Knight]

Some of what I've seen of RoH reminds me of some people who played No Mercy and similar games. You know, the kind of guys who would try and hit nine finishers in a row?

It's not every match, but in many cases, it goes beyond simple spot-festing. Enough to make me roll my eyes, and not because I don't want to give it a fair shake.

[BigDaddyCool]

I see where you are coming from.

[Dave Youell]

Some of what I've seen of RoH reminds me of some people who played No Mercy and similar games. You know, the kind of guys who would try and hit nine finishers in a row?


Don't be ridiculous!

You could hit like 3 finishers tops before your power bar ends. That's just crazy.

Unless you were Jericho, cos he had that sweet taunt that pushed his power meter up loads, so you could hit 3 moves, dot he taunt, get back into the special then do it over.

So technically possible, but only if Jericho is in ROH.....um what we talking about again?

[BigDaddyCool]

So technically possible, but only if Jericho is in ROH.....um what we talking about again?

OMG, I know you are just kidding, but don't get people talking about how awesome a score Jericho would be for RoH. RoH wouldn't know what to do with Jericho (no like TNA or WWE will do much better but at least they have advertising).

[Kane Knight]

Yeah, but thanks to RoH psychology, Jericho will hit 15 triple powerbombs in five minutes, lock in the walls of Jericho, and the guy will be totally unfazed.

[Dave Youell]

Yeah, but thanks to RoH psychology, Jericho will hit 15 triple powerbombs in five minutes, lock in the walls of Jericho, and the guy will be totally unfazed.
Well it all depends, I mean i've had matches that last a solid 45 minutes on No Mercy, if my power gauge was in the red before i started taking all these moves, I reckon my character would be unfazed.

Either that or some kind of cheat code

Of if Ultimate Warrior was in ROH, now that would be fucking interesting

[BigDaddyCool]

Ok, back to watching it for a bit. Nigel seems to be working the arm. Lets see if this has any bearing for the rest of the match.

[BigDaddyCool]

So far I like what I see from Nigel. He seems to know what he is doing and gets it.

[BigDaddyCool]

The announcers are so boring.

[BigDaddyCool]

Claudio could have sold the arm more.

[BigDaddyCool]

Up next is Alex Shelley v Steve Cornio. Finallt a match where I've heard of both guys.

[BigDaddyCool]

2 comments about Cornio:
1) He needs to hit the gym and lose some wieght/tighten up.

2) Why does his ass say world?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Why exactly would big moves be used to wear somebody down? Isn't that kind of the point of big moves? Why, exactly, SHOULD a Tombstone or a Pedigree or a stunner be used to wear someone down? Even in the tenuous grasp of psychology wrestling posesses, that's absurd.

Um, because a big move is just a small move only more effective? If I'm looking to work over someone's neck, I would drop them on it, hence a piledriver. Just because the move doesn't finish the match, doesn't mean it isn't given credibility.

I think of it like a fighting game: You have your simple striking moves, which is the WWE style, but then you have your combos and throws which take out a lot more health quicker. But, oh no! They can only be used at the end. That's one style of match. Some guys work better with the feeling out, build to the end style of wrestling. Others actually can tell a better story where they try and put their opponent down hard and fast, and it doesn't always work because it's too early in the match, and they need to try again.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Alienoid had better never complain about Cena's psychology after making that statement.

Cena has no psychology. He gets his leg worked over, then makes a comeback and no-sells it. I'm not saying no-selling moves is great, I'm saying there is no problem with a guy kicking out of a Death Valley Driver in Ring of Honor because some guy uses it as a finisher in the WWE. Oh wait, he doesn't, because the move is too dangerous. Give me a break.

[Mr. Nerfect]

You have no idea what ring physcology is do you?

I suppose the Japanese legends which have made money a great living for themselves don't either?

Psychology is when there is a thought and strategy behind the moves being used. Believe it or not, flips and power moves have a place in ring psychology. If you are working over the leg, you occasionally need a big move to enhance the drama. The way you fools act, a figure four must end the match because it's a big move.

A perfect example of leg psychology (not the best, but one that springs to mind, for whatever reason), is Mickie James challenging Trish Stratus for the WWE Women's Title at WrestleMania 22, I think it was. They were fighting on the top rope, and Mickie grabbed Trish's leg, and hung it up over the top rope, and the spot looked sick. It didn't need to end the fucking match.

The WWE's style is tie-up, shoulder block, clothesline, chinlock, chinlock, chinlock, commercial break, chinlock, chinlock. That's not the only way to work a wrestling match. A guy can use a sit-down powerbomb to work the back on an opponent.

It's like writing a book. A Randy Orton match would feature sentences like "The cat sat on the mat. It was happy." A book by someone who can do the high impact style well, though, would feature sentences with a little more creativity and articulation than that.

I never once said that every match should consist of big moves, I'm just saying that it's not necessarily a fault if it does. Wrestling is fake, anyway. I'd rather see guys doing things that I can't.

[BigDaddyCool]

I dissagree with what you say Mr. Noid. Mostly because it is half a thought.

[Kane Knight]

LOL. Do you actually believe this shit?

[BigDaddyCool]

I assume you are speaking to 'Noid, Ms. Knight.

[IC Champion]

LOL. Do you actually believe this shit?
I believes he believes it, which is sad.

[IC Champion]

Also, it didn't even really make sence.

[Kane Knight]

I believes he believes it, which is sad.

I'm starting to think he's intentionally going for as full of shit as humanly possible, to see how far he can go or something.

No, scratch that. I started thinking that a while ago. It's just recently, he's stepped it up.

I know that verbosity and intelligence have no real bearing on one another, but I can't believe anyone could spout off these term papers and not be taking the piss.

[BigDaddyCool]

You up to Dragon/Marufuji yet?
Yes, and it is extremely boring. If I want to watch a hick and a jap dry hump, I'll find me a jap, dry hump her and tape it so I can watch it later.