NBA finals prediction thread!!!

[AlphaBean]

I imagine Olowokandi will come back before the playoffs are over

You talk as though it's an injury.

:(

[AlphaBean]

The Lakers acted like they didn't care at all that they won.

That's pathetic. To have an NBA championship as an afterthought... truly pathetic. It ruins the game, and the Kings would have no chance in hell of competing with the Lakers. Would have made the series fun? Bullshit.

If you can't guard 3 shooters, you can't guard 7.

[Kris P Lettus]

KG was shut down...

:happysad:

[The Outlaw]

I think it's more a case of them being there and doing that before thing. They take care of business and don't celebrate a lot untill it's the right time to celebrate.

[FacelessBum]

Will it be a shut out?

I truly believe Spurs were the only ones to defeat the Lakers but they got screwed in game 5.

I saw the highlights about them saying that the timer didnt start until he was already turning around in shooting motion and they were correct. He got at least a half second advantage. Fisher that is.

[The Icon of Elisim]

If the Lakers had thrown a big celebration it just would've lit a fire underneath the Wolves. Plus they won by like 8 points, you don't usually see guys going crazy when they win by that much.

[Ninti the Mad]

Shaq will stomp on their fire.

[PureHatred]

The Lakers acted like they didn't care at all that they won.


They don't. Every single player on that team knows that, especially after beating the Spurs, anything less than an NBA title is a failure this year. And now with word coming out on Sportscenter that Sam Cassell is doubtful for Game 2, this series could be done in 4.

[AlphaBean]

KG was shut down...

:happysad:

He was tripleteamed the entire game, and was getting beaten down physically. It's depressing that he can't get help, but ESPN said that the "big three sputters" and that the Lakers "shut down the big three."

The Lakers throw three guys at KG on every play, Spree shreds their defense and does very well, but Sam didn't even play... I mean, I wouldn't call his time on the court "working." He got hard-fouled and hit the floor and now he's probably out.

The Wolves never stood a chance. The Kings whined about injuries when the Wolves had injuries too. The Lakers are completely healthy. There's no way with our COMPLETE LACK OF POINT GUARD we can guard GP and Fisher. With KG under the basket, Malone is like Webber... free to hit the open J. Kobe runs circles and tires Hassell or Spree out, and Shaq gets doubled by loser Centers and KG trying to cut him off. You can't guard everyone. Spurs couldn't. Kings sure as hell couldn't.

And if you guys think it's a good thing that they've been there before and have no reason to be excited, you are missing the point of the game. Basketball is not a job. It's a sport. And if you can't even SMILE after winning a very important game, then basketball has lost its spirit. It's not even a case of underdogs, it's just the Lakers coasting through the playoffs. I'm assuming the next three (or four) games are going to have piss-poor ratings.

And since the Kings < The Wolves, that series would not have been better.

My only solace is that the Lakers will be torn apart next season. :love:

[PureHatred]

And if you guys think it's a good thing that they've been there before and have no reason to be excited, you are missing the point of the game. Basketball is not a job. It's a sport. And if you can't even SMILE after winning a very important game, then basketball has lost its spirit. It's not even a case of underdogs, it's just the Lakers coasting through the playoffs. I'm assuming the next three (or four) games are going to have piss-poor ratings.

My only solace is that the Lakers will be torn apart next season. :love:

Actually, it is a job. It's their job.

This is a veteran group. Look at the roster..outside of Rush, Walton, and Cook, every single person on the Lakers roster has either won a title or been to the Finals before. I don't remember the 80's Celtics and Lakers, the 90's Bulls, or even the Spurs from last year ever celebrating until after the NBA title. If they did, people would call them 'unprofessional' and you'd see all these analysts saying things like "why are they celebrating? they haven't won yet." The Yankes don't do a jig after the first round of the playoffs, do they?

They won Game 1; they still have to win three more in this series and four in the next. This team was put together to win a title; this is what they're supposed to do.

So they will stay calm, play hard, and beat a T-Wolves team that really has no shot as long as the Lakers play a complete game. And I'm sure, come June, that these guys will lose their minds. Karl Malone and Gary Payton are going to go bonkers once they have a ring....just not now.

Those kind of emotional outpourings after every game are for the NCAA's. This is pro-basketball.

As for next year...Phil is probably gone. Karl, too. Fox will retire. But no wway in hell they let Derek Fisher walk after these playoffs. And that still leaves a Laker team with Shaq, Kobe, Gary, an improved bench, and a veteran exemption slot on the cap that will let them pick-up a guy like Keon Clark or Theo Ratliff. Outside of the Spurs and Wolves, there's not a team in the West that's going to compete.

[BCWWF]

I doubt Gary Payton stays for next year, he was bitching and moaning all year because he couldn't play his game, I can't see him staying. Keon Clark sucks, and really wouldn't help them at all, and Theo Ratliff would be dumb to leave Portland, I don't think he would fit in with the Lakers, given Shaq is already the dominant center.

On Yahoo! Sports, they had a preview of the Wolves/Lakers series, and it compared all the different aspects, and for coaches it had "even". I just thought that was kind of funny, because it seems like Phil Jackson is quickly losing all his credibility for being such a great coach.

[PureHatred]

Maybe they were just acknowledging the fact that Flip is very underrated.

Also, if he wins a title, I think Gary will exercise the option to extend his contract since it's unlikely he'll get more playing somewhere else unless it's for a really lousy team. Being in LA., I've heard every single one of his interviews and GP has said all year that winning is what makes him happiest.

Either Clarks or Ratliff at power forward for a year or two to give defensive help and rebound would fit fine. I'm honestly hoping Karl stays, since he brings all that and can pass. But I doubt he would at his current salary.

[AlphaBean]

Karl would probably be an all star playing on the Mavericks.

Kobe's leaving.

That is Shaq, Fisher, maybe GP? A good team, sure, but there are a lot of them. And think about this... if Shaq and Kobe are there without the Zen Master, who's to say they will be able to coexist? They didn't coexist before Phil, so chances are they won't after him...

Nuggets if they keep Camby and he remains healthy are on their way to being elite. They have most of their positions filled.

Wolves on the other hand I think are overrated in terms of future. I love Sprewell, but even if he stays, he's already very inconsistent, and his "on" days will grow further and further apart the older he gets, because he won't be able to keep it up. T-Hud, Kandi, Sam, Wally are now all injury liabilities. Kandi for the most part is just straight-up liability, don't let last night fool you. The Wolves want another player in the offseason, so let's see if they can bring in a complete 2. THAT'S RIGHT, T-MAC IS COMIN' TO MINNESOTA. :wavesad:

[The Outlaw]

LOL @ BArkley's comments on Kandi last night

I think TIOE nailed it right on the head, if they would have celebrated heavily it would have lit a fire under the Wolves, namely KG. We aren't going to be like the Nugs and celebrate after a win and start a thug war. We aren't like that.

I think this whole Lakers being an uneasy group is more or less what the media has put into people's heads. I was reading ESPN Magazine and they had a huge article on how everyone on the Lakers hated Kobe minus Fisher. Like Shaq said, the media has taken their words and twisted them into what would make a story and make it interesting. Do I think they are all best friends? No, but I think they are closer than what people think. Shaq or Kobe one had an interview and said even though the media likes to think otherwise, they are a close knit group.

I'm actually interested to see what happens after this season. See who stays and who leaves. It will make things interesting. :D

[PureHatred]

Kobe's leaving.



The last time he made any kind of public statement, Kobe said he wanted to be a Laker for life. And Jerry Buss has said that re-signing Bryant was THE most important thing to do in the offseason.

Kobe stays. Phil leaves.

[The Outlaw]

Yeah they would have to fire the GM if they wanted to get rid of Kobe.

[Crimson]

Damn I haven't been able to post for a while but LOL @ all Laker haters who said the Spurs were gonna beat 'em :lol:.

I think probably Lakers/Pistons. Kobe will stay most likely , and Phil will retire as the most succesful coach in postseason .

[BCWWF]

PureHatred is right, Kobe is not going anywhere, but Phil Jackson on the other hand is. The Lakers aren't going to fall off the face of the earth either.

I also agree, Pistons/Lakers finals, and I think it'll be pretty good. The Pistons were the smartest team in the East, trading away a point guard and getting one of the better big men from the west, so now they have the power in the paint to compete against the west. It'll be guarding Kobe that will be the biggest challenge.

[AlphaBean]

The last time he made any kind of public statement, Kobe said he wanted to be a Laker for life. And Jerry Buss has said that re-signing Bryant was THE most important thing to do in the offseason.

Kobe stays. Phil leaves.

I had only heard about the wanting to test free agency thing.

Meh. Now I just hope the Lakers split up. Makes for boring basketball. :(

[packt up]

I like the Lakers :$ even went to one game cos all my relatives live out there. They are gonna win now I reckon though I have no idea whats gonna happen next year as they don't have much news about that out here :(.

Wish I could watch the games too :( - Fisher's shot over Spurs must have been a great thing to watch.

[The Outlaw]

I like the Lakers :$ even went to one game cos all my relatives live out there. They are gonna win now I reckon though I have no idea whats gonna happen next year as they don't have much news about that out here :(.

Wish I could watch the games too :( - Fisher's shot over Spurs must have been a great thing to watch.

It was my friend. I wet my panties when he hit that shot. :love:

[Ninti the Mad]

That shot should've been redone because they had so much extra time - its unbelieveable.

[PureHatred]

"Redone"?

This is so ridiculous. Even if you say that the clock started even a tenth of a second late, then by the same token, the clock was obviously stopped late after Duncan's make. But no time was added on because human reaction is taken into acount in the rules. And by the definition of the NBA rules, anything more than .3 on the clock means a player can catch and shoot. Period. Within the confines of the NBA, there was nothing about that shot that could be argued or overturned.

And that really doesn't take away form the fact that the Lakers were up big going into the 4th and thoroughly outplayed the Spurs in the other three victories.That one shot, controversy or no controversy, doesn't remove the fact that the Lakers were clearly the better team. And I'm sure no one on the Spurs would use Fisher's shot as an excuse for having a 2-0 lead in the series and then gettng their asses handed to them for 15 out of the next 16 quarters.

[BCWWF]

I agree with Pure, sure human error can burn sometimes, but I would rather have human error in a game than it being mechanically judged. That is one of the reasons baseball is such a great sport. Also, its almost 100% that the Lakers had huge advantage and weren't going to lose that series.

[BCWWF]

LOL @ Lakers fans everywhere.

The old men were SHUT DOWN, S-H-U-T D-O-W-N.

Hey Shaq, "Air Ball!" I wonder why Malone hasn't been able to win a championship, he can't keep his cool when dealing with a third string point guard. It was also funny when Payton tried talking shit to World and Wally wasn't even paying attention to him.

To do this without Alien, wow, its coming back to Minnesota.

[The Outlaw]

Question to anyone that watched the game: Thoughts on Malone's ejection?

[The Outlaw]

LOL @ Lakers fans everywhere.

The old men were SHUT DOWN, S-H-U-T D-O-W-N.

Hey Shaq, "Air Ball!" I wonder why Malone hasn't been able to win a championship, he can't keep his cool when dealing with a third string point guard. It was also funny when Payton tried talking shit to World and Wally wasn't even paying attention to him.

To do this without Alien, wow, its coming back to Minnesota.

:nono:

[PureHatred]

LOL @ Lakers fans everywhere.

The old men were SHUT DOWN, S-H-U-T D-O-W-N.

Hey Shaq, "Air Ball!" I wonder why Malone hasn't been able to win a championship, he can't keep his cool when dealing with a third string point guard. It was also funny when Payton tried talking shit to World and Wally wasn't even paying attention to him.

To do this without Alien, wow, its coming back to Minnesota.

This is exactly why the Lakers didn't celebrate after Game 1.

What exactly did you accomplish tonight besides avoiding a sweep? You've lost homecourt and unless you win in L.A., the Lakers can win this series w/o winning again in Minnesota. All this bravado makes you sound ignorant. Tonight, the Wolves did their job and it won't be a series again unless its 2-2 after Game 4.

At least the players had enough sense to try to act like they've been there, even if the fans can't.

[The Outlaw]

Yeah word. But like I previously mentioned, Minnesota has obviously never been where they are so let them have a hard-on for a win.

On a serious topic, Malone's ejection. Was that not EXACTLY what KG did to Peeler? If not less contact? And Malone was actually fighting through a screen, not just taking a shot at the guy. That might have been the biggest flop I've seen, and I've seen a lot with Vlade playing.

Big props to GP for taking up for your teamate. Moving screen + an elbow = A pissed off Glove

[PureHatred]

Yeah, good move. Piss them off. The Lakers were going to do this business as usual and you go and make them mad. And embarass Shaq. It wasn't more than a couple months ago that the TWolves went to L.A. and got waxed. Down by 30 at one point and were never really in it.

If you TWolves fans think that can't happen again, you're kidding yourselves.

[The Outlaw]

Yeah that's what me and a friend (who is more of a Wolves fan) were discussing. He went on a rant about not pissing Shaq off right before they did. I mean come on, you gotta have some common sense to you not to piss guys off when you're winning by 20.

[BCWWF]

Everyone brings up that "The Timberwolves have never been here before," well Gary Payton and Karl Malone are in the exact same boat as most of the Wolves. If anything they should be worried right now, this is their last chance to make the finals, and despite what you all thought the Timberwolves will not be walked past.

And thats just funny that you guys attempt to get offended when a team celebrates. Someone decided that the Lakers were going to walk into the finals, and it became popular opinion, and now we blow them out with Cassell on the bench and Trenton Hassell barely playing, yeah I have quite a bit to be happy about. I would rather have a Kevin Garnett with heart than a Karl Malone with professionalism. And don't try to pretend like the Lakers are the definition of professional, anybody remember the whole Sacramento "Queens?" I think that is the definition of lighting a fire under another team, Sacramento just happened to be chokes. Don't try to act smug and above me by acting like you don't care that your team just lost, this isn't going to be a walk in the park, partner. Yeah, I talk shit just like Gary Payton, Senior Professional.

The hit between World and Fisher was barely even a hit, and they are both equally guilty.

Malone was ejected because he got two technicals. When you get two technicals you are automatically ejected. Both of his technicals were justified.

[BCWWF]

How did they piss Shaq off? He was the one dropping air balls from the free throw line.

[BCWWF]

Oh of course the Lakers are capable of blowing us out again, but did we not blow them out tonight? The same day Shaq was quoted saying the Lakers were "starting their peak?"

[BCWWF]

And don't get me wrong, I don't predict the Wolves take the next three games, but I surely don't predict the Lakers do either. This will at least go into a game 6, probably 7.

[The Icon of Elisim]

Everyone brings up that "The Timberwolves have never been here before," well Gary Payton and Karl Malone are in the exact same boat as most of the Wolves.

LOL

Malone has been to the conference finals in 1998, 1997, 1996, 1994 and 1992

Payton has been in 1996 and 1993

Yeah, exact same situation

[BCWWF]

If they want to brag about the Conference Finals, then go ahead and brag. I don't think anyone out there is looking for a Conference final, (And I am pretty sure you are talking about NBA Finals appearances). What they want, Malone, Payton, Garnett, Sprewell, none of them have it.

[PureHatred]

Not to mention that Gary and Maone have both been to the NBA Finals. :nono:

No one's gettng offended, but you sound like a total fool going off about winning one game when you lost homecourt two days ago.

[The Outlaw]

Everyone brings up that "The Timberwolves have never been here before," well Gary Payton and Karl Malone are in the exact same boat as most of the Wolves. If anything they should be worried right now, this is their last chance to make the finals, and despite what you all thought the Timberwolves will not be walked past.

And thats just funny that you guys attempt to get offended when a team celebrates. Someone decided that the Lakers were going to walk into the finals, and it became popular opinion, and now we blow them out with Cassell on the bench and Trenton Hassell barely playing, yeah I have quite a bit to be happy about. I would rather have a Kevin Garnett with heart than a Karl Malone with professionalism. And don't try to pretend like the Lakers are the definition of professional, anybody remember the whole Sacramento "Queens?" I think that is the definition of lighting a fire under another team, Sacramento just happened to be chokes. Don't try to act smug and above me by acting like you don't care that your team just lost, this isn't going to be a walk in the park, partner. Yeah, I talk shit just like Gary Payton, Senior Professional.

The hit between World and Fisher was barely even a hit, and they are both equally guilty.

Malone was ejected because he got two technicals. When you get two technicals you are automatically ejected. Both of his technicals were justified.

Hey go back and check my posts, as you can see I never said it would be a walk in the park. YOU said the lakers would win chief, I said it would be a closer series than what everyone (INCLUDING you and the other TWolves "fans") thought. I stress "fans" because noone from Minnesota has any faith in their team. That first game, like the announcers touched on, was pathetic. The fans never got into the game even though it was a close game. It's the western conference finals for crying out loud.

My point was that the Wolves' franchise has never been past the first round. Malone was in the conference finals in 96-98 , 94, and 92 I think? Payton in 93 and...96? My memory is being a bitch right now but I think that's right.

But Yeah, they are in the same situation :yes:

LOL Fisher was guilty for being screened illegally and taking an elbow? :?:

I don't care that you celebrated. If you want to piss Shaq off, go ahead, fine by me. :y: How am I trying to act above you? Elaborate.

Ok, Malone got ejected because he got two technicals. Fair enough. Both technicals were justified, fair enough.

Answer me this, was what Malone did to Martin not exactly what KG did to Peeler, possibly even less contact/less flagrant?

[The Outlaw]

If they want to brag about the Conference Finals, then go ahead and brag. I don't think anyone out there is looking for a Conference final, (And I am pretty sure you are talking about NBA Finals appearances). What they want, Malone, Payton, Garnett, Sprewell, none of them have it.

Jesus Christ.

*bangs head on the table*

[PureHatred]

If they want to brag about the Conference Finals, then go ahead and brag. I don't think anyone out there is looking for a Conference final, (And I am pretty sure you are talking about NBA Finals appearances). What they want, Malone, Payton, Garnett, Sprewell, none of them have it.

He's clearly talking about Conference Finals. Look at the dates...

When the announcers talk abou the T-Wolves not being here before, that are talking about this point in the playoffs. Outside of Sprewell and Sam I Am, that's true about the T-Wolve. Outside of the rookies, everyone on the Lakers has been to this point in the playoffs and beyond.

[BCWWF]

I didn't see Malone's hit, I was driving home at the time, but from how the announcer described it Martin was knocked over? Peeler was barely hit, but faught back in the heat of the moment. But since I didn't see it I can't compare. All that matters is that Malone was ejected because he got two technicals, KG wasn't because he only had one. What else are you looking for?

[The Outlaw]

You know, I'm not even going to bother.

This is like talking to a brick wall.

[The Icon of Elisim]

If they want to brag about the Conference Finals, then go ahead and brag. I don't think anyone out there is looking for a Conference final, (And I am pretty sure you are talking about NBA Finals appearances). What they want, Malone, Payton, Garnett, Sprewell, none of them have it.

No one is bragging about conference finals. I'm just commenting on your statement that Malone and Payton are in the same boat experience wise as the Timberwolves, who've never gotten out of the first round before this year.

And those are the conference finals, not the NBA finals

[The Outlaw]

Yeah TIOE beat me with the dates

That sneaky rascal

[BCWWF]

I don't get why you keep whining, are you saying it shouldn't have been a technical? Or are you saying the NBA should have changed its rules so that if Malone gets 2 T's he doesn't have to get ejected? Honestly.

[The Outlaw]

:|

I asked a simple question. Was what Malone did not exactly what KG did? This isn't brain surgery, it's not too hard to follow.

[Kid Robb]

Does an ejection mean automatically missing the next game, a la Peeler in the Sacto-Wolves series?

According to the NBA Malone only had one tech just quietly.

[BCWWF]

OK, say it was the exact same thing KG did to Peeler, what point are you trying to make?

[Crimson]

Lakers in 5. I look for a blowout in game 3, closer game in 4, and the Wolves get finished in Minnesota. I can't see Derek Martin coming up big consistently, without Cassell, their PG situation will be a big burden. KG was the man tonite though, lucky Malone got in foul trouble.

[BCWWF]

I think Peeler was suspended because he hit KG in the face, I don't think an ejection automatically calls for a suspension, and I would think it would be highly unlikely for Malone to even have a fine.

[PureHatred]

Der. He's saying that if it was the same thing, then why did KG stay in the game and Malon didn't.

simple answer: different officiating crew, different standards.

Plus, I'm sure Malone and the Lakers will use this as motivation in Game 3. The Lakers got beat bad, but realistically this was a must for the T-Wolves. The Lakers needed to leave Minnesota with at least a split, and the did.

[The Outlaw]

OK, say it was the exact same thing KG did to Peeler, what point are you trying to make?

The point was Malone received a technical and KG did not. I thought I pointed that out, but maybe I didn't? :$

Does an ejection mean automatically missing the next game, a la Peeler in the Sacto-Wolves series?

According to the NBA Malone only had one tech just quietly.


Well, not exactly. This was why I brought up the rules of the NBA in a couple of past posts KR, I was inquiring for someone to explain to me how he was suspended for two games but to no avail. Malone got one technical on a double technical with Ervin Johnson with one second left on the shot clock for something silly, and then one for fighting across a screen set by Martin. Remember the shoulder KG gave to Peeler which insinuated the elbow? Well Malone gave Martin something similar and he went flying, so he got a technical and was ejected.

[The Outlaw]

Also, 8 technicals in the game I think. Crazy. All in the fourth quarter to I think.

[BCWWF]

I'm going to bed, I won't be so hot/stupid tomorrow. Bye guys

[AlphaBean]

You know, I'm not even going to bother.

This is like talking to a brick wall.

Calm down, chief. :lol:

Oh and I'm sorry I missed the "debate." :-\

[The Outlaw]

Tayshaun Prince says get that out of my house.

Best defensive play of the year right there :love:

[AlphaBean]

The point was Malone received a technical and KG did not. I thought I pointed that out, but maybe I didn't? :$




Well, not exactly. This was why I brought up the rules of the NBA in a couple of past posts KR, I was inquiring for someone to explain to me how he was suspended for two games but to no avail. Malone got one technical on a double technical with Ervin Johnson with one second left on the shot clock for something silly, and then one for fighting across a screen set by Martin. Remember the shoulder KG gave to Peeler which insinuated the elbow? Well Malone gave Martin something similar and he went flying, so he got a technical and was ejected.

By the way, KG received a T for his screen on Peeler, and it was a shoulder to the chest, not the face; Peeler did not even come close to falling down, and then he retaliated. There's the difference. And Malone's was the 2nd T of the night for him.

And the funny thing is... after being called for a double Tech (KG and AP) the Kings took two Technical shots. They had a distinct FT advantage the entire series due to oversight. Nobody kept track of the foul limit, and gave them random "freebies." :nono:

[The Outlaw]

Those were not technical shots, those were regular free throws as they were in the penalty.

KG did not receive a technical, he received a regular foul.

[The Outlaw]

Watching ESPN, Malone reports he was "getting back" for the hard screen set on Fisher which knocked him down by Spree. Compared it to you hit my batter I hit yours.

Also, he was fined $7500. Hmm.

[AlphaBean]

I heard it was a T, I don't know for sure.

Anyway, the screen on Fisher was clean. He wasn't looking where he was going. Karl lowered a shoulder and busted Martin in the face.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2004/columns/story?columnist=aldridge_david&id=1808516

He he he he.

The biggest thug in NBA history gets "overlooked" for laying out a 3rd-string Point Guard when the game's not on the line... :nono:

At least I can use this as an excuse like the Kings use Bobby Jackson. :

[The Outlaw]

I didn't see the screen so I dont know if it was clean or not. From what Malone said, it was a HARD screen. Fisher said it was a hard screen that knocked his block off but said it wasn't cheap or anything.

And no, it wasn't a T on Garnett. It was a regular foul.

LOL it wasn't an elbow to the noggin, he fought through the screen and gave him a shoulder, it was the same thing that KG did to Peeler which insinuated Peeler's elbow. If you even try to say Malone did the same thing as Peeler you are crazy. Like I said, he did the same as Garnett.

It's also hilarious that Aldridge compares this to the Peeler altercation. I think he might have gotten confused because this play was ON THE BALL. The KG/Peeler incident was AWAY from the ball. Malone was trying to guard the ball and fought through a screen and gave the guy some contact.

"I would not feel so strongly about this if the league A) hadn't been so adamant over the years about condemning any contact above the shoulder, whether it came from a punch or an elbow. The league's various chieftans of discipline have all said the same thing: windup, contact and follow-through are a flagrant foul, subject to suspension."

If he feels so strongly about this, why didn't he make a big fuss about KG's contact above the shoulder?

[AlphaBean]

Because KG didn't hit anyone above the shoulder. :)

PS: I'm not saying that Malone should have been suspended... I think it was a gay, really hard shoulder that was not the same as KG's except that it was a PF using a Shoulder. That's where the similarity ends.

Either way, it happens, and I'm more concerned with KG getting hacked out there. It wears him down, and he's not a big fatass like Shaq who can handle the abuse :(. He's halfway between Shaq and AI... and we all know AI will be forced to retire soon from all his injuries.

[BCWWF]

I'm not sure how similar the two hits in question actually were.

[AlphaBean]

They weren't.

Malone's was completely unnecessary. He was getting back at Latrell Sprewell for screening Derek Fisher cleanly... by leveling Derek Martin?

What the ****** is that?

At least KG shouldered Peeler (below the neck) for Peeler elbowing KG... illegally. Deserved a Tech, and a fine, but at least there was a reason for it.

And you can't lie and say Malone was merely fighting through a screen and "bumped into" Martin. 1) Everyone knows that Malone is a dirty player, and 2) He admitted that what he did was wrong.

[The Outlaw]

I dunno, I thought what he did wasn't as bad as what KG did but maybe I am wrong

I thought that yes what he did was wrong, but I also thought what KG did was also wrong. They both gave hard shoulders and they both made contact in the same places, only Martin obviously flopped a little more whereas Peeler just knocked his block off.

And yes, I agree, Malone is a hard player. ;)

[AlphaBean]

I dunno, I thought what he did wasn't as bad as what KG did but maybe I am wrong

I thought that yes what he did was wrong, but I also thought what KG did was also wrong. They both gave hard shoulders and they both made contact in the same places, only Martin obviously flopped a little more whereas Peeler just knocked his block off.

And yes, I agree, Malone is a hard player. ;)

It was not the same place. Martin got it in the face, KG got Peeler in the chest. That's the difference.

Also, Malone did it to "get even" with a CLEAN play done by SOMEONE ELSE to ANOTHER PERSON. Not to mention, it was nothing but a shoulder butt.

KG screened AP for AP elbowing him in the stomach. AP elbowed him AGAIN. So are you just fucking around, or are you too stupid to see that?

Cause I mean, come on.

And Malone is not a "hard" player. he is a "dirty" player.

Lifting a knee to take someone out... that's "hard?"

:wtf:

[The Outlaw]

If you want to see true dirty basketball watch The Bad Boys :love: :love:

[BCWWF]

KG was actually retaliating for being elbowed to the floor in the earlier posession.

KG's shoulder to me was a hard nudge to say "Whats up now" to Peeler, whereas Malone put his shoulder down and drilled Martin hard to the floor. But it really is all just how you look at it.

[BCWWF]

Anyway though, Payton 14 points in the first quarter? What?

[The Outlaw]

Yeah I guess it does depend on how you look at the situation.

[AlphaBean]

Hahahahahaha Danny Crawford. Shaq gets the ball... blow the whistle...

:nono:

That was frustrating... if anyone was touching Shaq it was called a foul.

[The Outlaw]

That's what they were trying to do.

[AlphaBean]

Nah. Like, he caught the ball and had no chance of putting it in, and it was whistled. I mean EVERYTHING. They didn't foul him, they were called for fouls. There's a difference. If you touch Shaq, that's a foul. I mean, how can you play basketball without touching someone. All these people did was make contact, even when he initiated it... foul!

Granted I'm not all that upset, because 1) I know it was Danny Crawford, and 2) Since everyone knows it's not going to be called down the middle, the Wolves need to overcome the injuries, the poor officiating and obvious mismatch of talent, and play harder if they want to win. That's all there is to it. Sprewell had three straight good games, it had to end eventually. :(

[The Outlaw]

haha

I dunno from what I saw they started fouling him right when the 4th quarter started intentionally. Don't see why you're complaining though considering this was his worst free throw shooting game in a while...?

[Ben]

Wolves over Pacers. Too late for a prediction? Ah well...

[AlphaBean]

haha

I dunno from what I saw they started fouling him right when the 4th quarter started intentionally. Don't see why you're complaining though considering this was his worst free throw shooting game in a while...?

When everyone gets into foul trouble, it takes away from the game and you know it.

Danny Crawford, remember? KG fouled out. He usually gets 0-1 fouls per game. But against LA... with Danny Crawford... he doesn't last the entire game, and he even sat forever.

[Kid Robb]

Without having read anything on Game 3 of the Wolves-Lakers, the comments about Shaq getting foul calls everytime he goes near it is on the money. I guess it's understandable when teams employ the hack-a-Shaq that there's a backlash of sorts where he gets more calls than normal, but it was getting ridiculous. How are you supposed to defend a guy that big when everytime he throws his ample frame into you, you get called for the foul??

Want to beat the Lakers? Let Shaq get his points, but keep him off the boards and close down on Bryant, Malone, Fisher, George, Payton and co. It was the same with the Bulls back in the day, let Michael get 50, but don't let anyone else get off. Sometimes it wasn't enough, but against the Lakers I reckon it would be. If Shaq gets 20 and 20, there's no way in hell anyone will beat them.

If the Wolves are going to win the series, they must win Game 4. If it gets to 5 and it's 3-1, it's over.

[PureHatred]

Want to beat the Lakers? Let Shaq get his points, but keep him off the boards and close down on Bryant, Malone, Fisher, George, Payton and co. It was the same with the Bulls back in the day, let Michael get 50, but don't let anyone else get off. Sometimes it wasn't enough, but against the Lakers I reckon it would be. If Shaq gets 20 and 20, there's no way in hell anyone will beat them.

ROFLMAO...close down Kobe....good one.

Kobe had zero points in the first half and pretty much woke up just long enough to put the game away in the 4th. There's nobody on the T-Wolves that can shut him down. Even in the blowout, he was scoring pretty much at will in Game 2. Your Bulls analogy is faulty because if you let MJ get his, the player you had to shut down was Pippen. Scottie Pippen is nowhere near the level of player Kobe Bryant is.

Game 3 was ugly, but I think since the T-Wolves said in the media they were going to foul Shaq, this was the referee backlash, as has been said before. And Joey Crawford is an idiot. Both team were pissed at the end of the game when he just stared at Mark Madsen as he ran down the court hugginq Shaq. He was obviously fouling him intentionally, he was even yelling it. Crawford had no right to make a "judgment call" on an obvious, intentional foul and if the NBA had any brains they would suspend him for the rest of the playoffs.

[BCWWF]

The Timberwolves obviously played the worse game last night, but the free throws were just rediculous. For a long time the wolves had one attempt to the Lakers 11, but their % made it really not a factor, so I'm not even going to bother to complain.

As for Kobe, he wasn't off or struggling at all in the beginning, he just choose to let his teammates get hot before he took the game over, read Steve Kerr's column on Yahoo! Sports.

I read just about all of the columns on ESPN.com today, and unfortunately Outlaw, it doesn't look like anybody agrees that this wasn't as bad as the KG-Peeler

[AlphaBean]

I mean come on! Danny Crawford's officiating team did it again!

Flip mentioned it in his press conference. Watch him get suspended for two games for his comments. :rofl:

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Shaq was getting a ridiculous amount of calls when I was watching. The only thing againest him is when he hit Maddog Madsen in the face with his elbow and got called for an offensive foul. I figured they were gonna give the foul to Madsen on that play lol

I didnt see a ton of the game tho..I did see Kobe go off for like 10 straight points though...pretty ridiculous.

[The Outlaw]

Yeah they were talking about them fouling Shaq intentionally the whole game

I mean, when you say it takes away from the game, you are saying Ervin Johnson, Mark Madsen, and Kandi are doing something to excite people?

Madsen possibly but only because he is a firecracker but come on now, it's not "taking away from the game"

The Timberwolves said before the series that they had 24 fouls to throw at Shaq and that was exactly what they were going to do. Don't complain about it when they tell you they are going to do it

[AlphaBean]

Yeah they were talking about them fouling Shaq intentionally the whole game

I mean, when you say it takes away from the game, you are saying Ervin Johnson, Mark Madsen, and Kandi are doing something to excite people?

Madsen possibly but only because he is a firecracker but come on now, it's not "taking away from the game"

The Timberwolves said before the series that they had 24 fouls to throw at Shaq and that was exactly what they were going to do. Don't complain about it when they tell you they are going to do it

Fuck that. You can't call fouls based on what someone said. That's bullshit.

You're seriously justifying this shit acting like you didn't even watch the game. Or were you so blind that you see Shaq hacked every time he touches the ball?

HE WAS NOT FOULED. Don't you understand that? The Wolves didn't even get a chance to foul him.

And then when they finally did, it's not called. I'M FOULING HIM, CALL THE FOUL. :rofl:

And this was Danny Crawford's team. Figures.

Every team fouls Shaq. You can't justify someone saying they'll foul him for poor officiating. You can't justify poor officiating. YOU might try, yes. But looks like people who aren't Wolves fans agree that the reffing was shit.

And twice I saw the Lakers get called for something, followed by Phil or Kobe yelling at the ref, the ref looking like :( then going on the other end and calling something bogus, like a non-existent out of bounds on KG followed by a no-call on a Kobe out of bounds. Whenever the Lakers were called for doing something, they would complain and the Wolves would get called for exactly the same thing, whether they did anything or not.

And Shaq should have only shot like 10 free throws tops.

Preventative referreeing. :rofl: I can't believe you actually think that's okay.

[The Outlaw]

You know you're right.

The refs and the NBA and everybody have this huge plan to screw the Wolves.

Every game they lose is due to officiating.

Seriously.

[The Outlaw]

And every time they were put out of the first round in the past, all due to officiating

[The Outlaw]

And when KG lost that game in high school it was also due to Danny Crawford being in attendance

[The Icon of Elisim]

Don't forget the Joe Smith scandal

[AlphaBean]

Don't forget the Joe Smith scandal

The Joe Smith thing is WHY the NBA has beef with the Wolves.

Losing EIGHT FIRST ROUND DRAFT PICKS?

Over THAT?

What the ******?


----------------------(this part of the post is directed entirely at The Outlaw)

Outlaw no longer can use logic to argue so he's using dim-witted sarcasm. The Wolves always lose when Danny Crawford is officiating. For some reason, he hates them. Whatever. Fact is, he's a bad ref.

Fact is, Outlaw used this line of sarcasm before, IN THIS THREAD. The "OH YEAH WE SHOULDN'T ALLOW ANY CONTACT WHATSOEVER LETS JUST SHOOT 3 POINTERS" bullshit.

But yes, Danny Crawford is the root of all evil. He's the reason you're being such an ignorant asshole. :p

[The Outlaw]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to The Icon of Elisim again.

[AlphaBean]

Phil whined about the reffing in game 2. Then Flip did exactly what Phil did after game 3, said "If Phil can do it I can do it." and afterward, Phil bitched that Flip was just grasping at straws. :lol:

What a gay hypocrite. I hate the fact that he's happened to be the coach on two of the strongest teams of all time. :(

[The Outlaw]

Yeah Danny Crawford is the reason Phil is a gay hypocrite

Flip reports that he analyzed the game and saw 33 calls that did not go his way

...:lol:

[AlphaBean]

Yeah Danny Crawford is the reason Phil is a gay hypocrite

Flip reports that he analyzed the game and saw 33 calls that did not go his way

...:lol:

Basically, the way the Lakers defend KG is by pushing him from the front. That's 100% illegal.

The only way you can beat KG is to cheat. That's what he's saying.

33 times.

[SammyG]

Lakers 45- Wolves 40 halftime... 3-1 lead is coming baby!!!

[PureHatred]

Want to beat the Lakers? Let Shaq get his points, but keep him off the boards and close down on Bryant...

In honor of that third quarter, I'd just like to point out once again how stupid that comment was.

That is all.

[The Outlaw]

That game was pre-determined by Danny Crawford guys

[AlphaBean]

Eh I didn't even want to watch that game. Was Crawford officiating? I bet he was. But either way, I got a call pointing out all the bad calls, but I don't really care. I'm not as upset about the Wolves being screwed here, since they would be hard-pressed to win the series without the refs' help... which is why it bugs me AT ALL is that the Lakers can win cleanly, they don't need Danny Crawford fouling KG out.

[BCWWF]

Outlaw you just sound like an idiot, even the most blind fan could see how bias the officiating is in the Staples Center. It also doesn't take a genius to figure out that the NBA is out for money, and nothing else. These playoffs were scheduled to shit, home teams couldn't even sell out their arenas, but put it on national TV, even at 10:00 eastern, and you get more money they putting two on at the same time. So if you are trying to tell me that David Stern and company weren't pushing for a Kings/Lakers final and the Lakers in the Finals, you need to re-evaluate how you look at things.

Now of course it is retarded and lame to blame a whole game on officiating, because Spree once again played like crap and Sam didn't do much either, and Hassell hasn't been a factor all series. It is also retarded to say things like "Danny Crawford is why they lost seven straight," because nobody said that or implied it at all. If you can't tell that ref's are biased, I don't even know what. I was impressed tonight though, they called those T's on Jackson and Payton, I didn't see anything being a big deal, so at least they weren't too bais.

The commentators made a comment something like this "Kevin Garnett hasn't complained about the officiating, but he was definately angry after that no-call," and you know what, Kevin has to come out and say something. The NBA obviously doesn't listen to anybody else, so why not the MVP.

Outlaw, as like other issues discussed on the board, I think you are the only one who doesn't see what the rest of the world see's.

[BCWWF]

That game was pre-determined by Danny Crawford guys

How many games have the Wolves won while Danny Crawford has been officiating? Yes, in a way these games have been pre-determined. Unless this is all just a big coincidence :|

[The Outlaw]

Actually I don't even know if Crawford called tonights game. I don't think he did.

I actually agree, he is a really shitty ref.

I like that old ref, the one that was on that one commercial dancing :love:

[DaveWadding]

Somebody explain this Joe Smith business, please? :(

[Kid Robb]

ROFLMAO...close down Kobe....good one.

Kobe had zero points in the first half and pretty much woke up just long enough to put the game away in the 4th. There's nobody on the T-Wolves that can shut him down. Even in the blowout, he was scoring pretty much at will in Game 2. Your Bulls analogy is faulty because if you let MJ get his, the player you had to shut down was Pippen. Scottie Pippen is nowhere near the level of player Kobe Bryant is.

Game 3 was ugly, but I think since the T-Wolves said in the media they were going to foul Shaq, this was the referee backlash, as has been said before. And Joey Crawford is an idiot. Both team were pissed at the end of the game when he just stared at Mark Madsen as he ran down the court hugginq Shaq. He was obviously fouling him intentionally, he was even yelling it. Crawford had no right to make a "judgment call" on an obvious, intentional foul and if the NBA had any brains they would suspend him for the rest of the playoffs.

close down ***ON***

ON ON ON ON ON ON ON

Obviously you can't shut down Kobe, in the same way you couldn't shut down Pippen. Game 4 the Wolves got hurt in the first half because when they had a lead, Fisher came off the bench and game the Lakers a massive lift. Shaq was almost on or did have a double-double in the first half, but there wasn't a lot else happening other than Fisher coming off the bench big.

The only way the Wolves will win is if they knock down outside shots, don't get beaten so badly on the boards, and don't let the Kobe, Fisher, George, Malone, Payton and co get huge numbers.

Pretty fucking basic.

Doesn't mean it will happen, because it's far easier said than done.

Doesn't help when you can't go within a foot of Shaq without being called for a foul just quietly.

[Ninti Ishkur]

Haha Minnesota is going to lose.

[PureHatred]

First off, Kidd Robb, Scottie Pippen got shut down a lot during the Bulls run. Thats what made all those Knicks/Bulls series so competitive was the fact he never managed to show up.

Secondly, you keep talking about Kobe Bryant like he's the second option. Shaq is getting the ball early because the Lakers have such an advantage down low. But Kobe has basically mailed in the first half in all the Lakers wins, passed the ball around, and then just killed anybody standing in front of him in the second half. Kobe Bryant is the best offensive player in the NBA. He may have his off nights, but any theory that includes " close down on Bryant" is pretty much nonsense.

The Wolves have no one who can guard Kobe. The Wolves have no one who can slow down Shaq, fouls or no fouls. And KG is getting no calls; I don't know if that's because Maone's such a vet or because the Lakers are being more agressive or what. But it's a fact. KG is getting no love from the refs. Minnesota is getting thoroughly dominated in every aspect of the game. And if Szerbiak wasn't shoting the rock so well, these last two games would've been ugly.

Basically, I'd be surprised if this comes back to L.A.

[BCWWF]

It will take a lot to force a game six, considering the circumstances. Sam can hardly play, Spree has been cold shooting, and the Lakers role-players are spectacular. As one of the Minnesota columnists said today, a win Saturday is just delaying the inevitable.

[The Miz]

Somebody explain this Joe Smith business, please? :(

small forward now with the milwaukee bucks. he played on minnesota the last few years. after the 99-00 season minnesota got caught trying to negotiate a contract in secret with him so they would avoid going over the cap. they got fined 3.5 million dollars and lost all of their 1st round draft picks for the next 5 years.

[The Outlaw]

Yeah, those sneaky scoundrels :D

[BCWWF]

Hey, at least we got Marcus Taylor, Loren Woods, and some other kick-ass guys from the second round :|

[PureHatred]

That really did suck. Overkill for something the NBA knows goes on every sinngle year.

[DaveWadding]

That really did suck. Overkill for something the NBA knows goes on every sinngle year.
It's not cheating unless you get caught. It's not the NBa's fault that the T'Wolves are too DAMN STUPID to not get caught.

[Kid Robb]

I don't think it'll get back to Minnesota now, Game 5 will be the last one.

Defensively the Wolves problems all surround Shaq, not Kobe. As good as Kobe is (and he's a freak no doubt, although McGrady would have something to say about him being the "best offensive player in the NBA"), with Hassell and Spreewell the Wolves have at least got reasonable match-ups for him. When it comes to Shaq, they have nothing. Olowokandi is nothing special, Miller is a big body backup, and Ervin Johnson is a servicable player but not a star. If they had a Ben Wallace, they'd be in a far better position.

Given that they can't stop Shaq, why both trying any harder? Let him get his and close down on the rest. Seems to be the pretty obvious way to look at it. You've got someone you can't stop because you don't have a match-up for them, so you focus on the other players, as good as they are.

In this series, Shaq is option 1, Kobe is option 2. Watch the Lakers repeatedly dump the ball into the low post and not run the triangle as per normal and you'll see that.

Pippen was still always servicable. He didn't have to score 25 to have an impact. It's one of the reasons he's one of the most complete players of all time, he could dominate a game without scoring. If the Wolves hold Kobe to 15, as well as keep Malone, Payton, Fisher and George in check, they have a chance. Given how hard that is, their chances are extremely slim.
On top of all that anyway, they need Cassell to be fit enough to play a full game, and for him, Spree, Wally and co to hit outside shots.

[PureHatred]

It's not cheating unless you get caught. It's not the NBa's fault that the T'Wolves are too DAMN STUPID to not get caught.

That's true. What the hell was Kevin McHale doing keeping records of all his talks with Smith.

[BCWWF]

Not that its important, but game 5 is in Minnesota.

I hate to say it, but I think that next year the Wolves would be better off if Spree used his release. First of all it would free up 15 million dollars, and second of all I think that Wally Szczerbiak is capable of scoring just as much if not more than Spree did this year, and then we could have the money to add a backup PG and someone else. I love Spree and wish he could stay, but with that contract and his bad games becoming more common, I think the Wolves need to go out and get Shawn Marion and Darrell Armstrong. What a dream world.

[DaveWadding]

Not that its important, but game 5 is in Minnesota.

I hate to say it, but I think that next year the Wolves would be better off if Spree used his release. First of all it would free up 15 million dollars, and second of all I think that Wally Szczerbiak is capable of scoring just as much if not more than Spree did this year, and then we could have the money to add a backup PG and someone else. I love Spree and wish he could stay, but with that contract and his bad games becoming more common, I think the Wolves need to go out and get Shawn Marion and Darrell Armstrong. What a dream world.
LOL Matrix's contract is far heftier than Spree's...keep dreaming.

[DaveWadding]

also, we'd probably want your dearest MVP in return.

[BCWWF]

LOL Matrix's contract is far heftier than Spree's...keep dreaming.

Salaries for the 2004/2005 Season
Sprewell: $14,625,000
Marion: $11,326,219

[BCWWF]

The Timberwolves are adding payroll, regardless. I would highly doubt that the Wolves would get Marion, much less go for him, but I read somewhere that some team (I think it was Orlando looking to trade T-Mac) wanted like Amare and Eisley or something, but the Suns said they would rather trade Marion. I doubt they will trade him, but how key would he be on the wolves?

[DaveWadding]

The Timberwolves are adding payroll, regardless. I would highly doubt that the Wolves would get Marion, much less go for him, but I read somewhere that some team (I think it was Orlando looking to trade T-Mac) wanted like Amare and Eisley or something, but the Suns said they would rather trade Marion. I doubt they will trade him, but how key would he be on the wolves?
trading Amare is a big nono as far as I'm concerned.

Ironically though, the pick the Suns used to get Amare was one of the picks Orlando sent to us in the Penny Hardaway sign and trade :naughty:

[BCWWF]

trading Amare is a big nono as far as I'm concerned.



I agree 100%, the Suns have the start of what could be really really good. Right now they are about in the middle with approx 50 million payroll, throw in a point guard and a pure shooter (for some reason I would like to see Finley on the Suns), and they could step into the elite.


Dave, you would know better than me, is there even talk of trading one of the big guns from Phoenix right now? Or was some stupid national news source just making up rumors.

[The Outlaw]

Yeah I dunno about getting rid of Amare

[The Outlaw]

Kareem Rush with a foul from the ground :lol:

I do believe it's about to be over :-\

"Minnesota in the penalty with 7 and a half minutes while having only one team foul" :(

That shot should've been redone because they had so much extra time - its unbelieveable.

After I saw this I went and downloaded the video.

Time ran off from Kobe's shot: .4 seconds
Time ran off from Timmy's shot: .3 seconds

That's if you want to be technical, which it looks like you are. Even not taking that into consideration, it looks like the clock is started right when Fisher got the ball? :-\

[The Outlaw]

Yeah you bastards are lucky you had so many points from free throws in that fourth quarter. :rant: :p

[Crimson]

We needed a game 6 for memorial day . A lakers celebration right after a bbq and some beers sounds nice.:beer:

[DaveWadding]

I agree 100%, the Suns have the start of what could be really really good. Right now they are about in the middle with approx 50 million payroll, throw in a point guard and a pure shooter (for some reason I would like to see Finley on the Suns), and they could step into the elite.


Dave, you would know better than me, is there even talk of trading one of the big guns from Phoenix right now? Or was some stupid national news source just making up rumors.
Finley used to be on the Suns...They traded him and Cassell to Dallas for J Kidd.

We need a Center...we've never had a better than average center...EVER.

There isn't really. But there is talk of getting Rapist. Actually, maybe I heard something about giving up Matrix for T-Mac...i dunno.

[BCWWF]

All I have to say is that if the Wolves play the same game they played tonight, they will get killed at the Staples Center. I will acknowledge that we got some calls tonight, most of which would have gone the other way (whether just or not) had it been in L.A. We've got to be ready.

My prediction still stands, either Lakers in 6 of Wolves in 7.

[The Icon of Elisim]

Thats a pretty far out prediction Nostradomus

[BCWWF]

It was my prediction before the series, and it still stands strong. If the Lakers take it, it will be in six, if it goes to seven the Wolves have it. Suck it.

[AlphaBean]

All I have to say is that if the Wolves play the same game they played tonight, they will get killed at the Staples Center. I will acknowledge that we got some calls tonight, most of which would have gone the other way (whether just or not) had it been in L.A. We've got to be ready.

My prediction still stands, either Lakers in 6 of Wolves in 7.

Right, there's no way in hell KG will go to the line unless the best refs in the league are working the game and Stern isn't in attendance. :nono:

Seriously... as many calls as KG got, Malone still fouled him on every play, holding him or using his extended arm to defend him when KG is facing the basket. Illegal? Yes. Called? Never. KG is so undefendable that if refs gave him ANY respect he'd shoot like 30 FTs per game. Because as it stands... the only way to keep KG from dominating is to beat him up. And they do it. And the refs always allow it. :(

[The Outlaw]

lol

[The Outlaw]

If the Lakers win this game, I am really looking forward to the excuses you Wolves fans will have for the loss.

[BCWWF]

The Wolves had everything, and I mean ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING go their way, and they didn't do it. Its as simple as that. We let up in the third quarter, and then Rush, he filled in for D-Fish and is probably the reason the Lakers won. The Lakers are clearly the better team, but the Wolves were handed the opportunity but just couldn't hit shots.

If there was ever a game where a healthy Sam would have been fun, this was it. The score would have been right there all game. Meh, what can you do?

Let me just say though, Kobe, Shaq, Fisher, Rush, etc, I respect them and the way they have played and handled themselves in this series. Malone and Payton I have absolutely no respect for, I never realized how much of a hack/actor Malone is, and I hope he doesn't win a championship. I don't have any sympathy in Malone for never winning a championship, because if he had signed with Utah for what he did with LA, they could have picked up another top free agent and been damn good this year.

Regardless, I think the Lakers will win it. The Pistons have the huge advantage in the East by having two/three good big men, but Shaq > B. Wallace and Malone > R. Wallace. The Pistons don't have enough offense, unless Rip could just absolutely tear it up. The Pacers, I just don't have faith in Jermaine, especially matching up against Malone and Shaq.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Another boring NBA Finals

[The Outlaw]

It's always boring when the West dominates it. This year will be different, I think.

[BCWWF]

This year shouldn't be as bad as last year, but I would say its done in six.

[AlphaBean]

If the Lakers win this game, I am really looking forward to the excuses you Wolves fans will have for the loss.

You really are a piece of shit. I don't make excuses for every loss, only the ones the Wolves played better in and lost.

The Wolves showed their lack of depth and lack of experience here. Hoiberg choked. Wally (always) choked. KG didn't choke, he was tired as fuck from carrying that godforsaken team. Surrounding KG with help? Spree tried this game, yeah. Sometimes he tries, sometimes he doesn't. Sam was dominant over the reg season and playoffs and would have given the Lakers fits. Hudson would have destroyed them. But we defeated them without either twice, and we could have done it again. They just fell apart, and Kareem Rush... :nono:

I'm gonna have nightmares about him.

[DaveWadding]

haha excuses.

[AlphaBean]

I'm saying that Rush killed us, and the team choked. An excuse is something used to make you feel better that your team lost.

I don't feel better knowing that we couldn't pull it out.

But I'll say one thing: I said a while ago that I would like to see a well-reffed game to see the Lakers beat us on their own, without referree help.

That happened tonight(last night). Their depth, talent, experience and most of all, confidence finally showed through. So I will not be like "what if Sam and Troy..." I know what would have happened if. Doesn't mean I am taking anything away from the Lakers because of it.

But DaveWadding, you've angered me. I'm going to say something mean to you in casual. :rant:

[DaveWadding]

I will not be like "what if Sam and Troy..." I know what would have happened if.
Good going, Nostradamus. :y:

[AlphaBean]

Good going, Nostradamus. :y:

OH SNAP.

Didn't you already use that joke on this page? Or was that someone else?

Scroll up... nah don't want you to wear yourself out, I'll paste it for you...

"Thats a pretty far out prediction Nostradomus" --TIoE.

So right, it doesn't take a psychic to know that the Wolves would have had a stronger, deeper team, and wouldn't have had a glaring hole at PG if they had their starting and backup PGs? :?:

[The Outlaw]

Check me out, I'm a piece of shit. :cool:

[PureHatred]

T-Wolves fans should feel pretty good right now; they had a great season and went from "First Round Question" to "Title Contender." No joke..they are the team to beat next season if McHale manages to follow up this run with the aquisition of a legit big man. Hell, if I'm the Wolves, I'd be sending Karl Malone offers as soon as the playoffs are over. They need a physical inside presence. If they get one, no one anywhere can guard Kavin Garnett and there's no way they don't have Cassell and Hudson next playoffs.

[The Dub]

I agree 100%, the Suns have the start of what could be really really good. Right now they are about in the middle with approx 50 million payroll, throw in a point guard and a pure shooter (for some reason I would like to see Finley on the Suns), and they could step into the elite.


Dave, you would know better than me, is there even talk of trading one of the big guns from Phoenix right now? Or was some stupid national news source just making up rumors.
Actually, Phoenix is going after Steve Nash and they'll probably get him. Dallas is among the worst teams at making off-season deals, so they may find a way to lose Steve Nash and pray that Travis Best can pick up his slack, just like they thought Travis Best would be able to replace Nick Van Exel.

[AlphaBean]

Well Phoenix getting Nash is good, it means one less team going after Hudson.

But then the Mavs will probably try.

:rant:

If anything, the Wolves need to sign and trade that fucker and get something in return.

[BCWWF]

Sure its dissapointing, but I don't think that the Wolves choked here, and I don't think they lost the series because of lack of experience at all, which was the big argument going into this. The Wolves lost this series because oh talent and depth, the Lakers were simply the better team.

[AlphaBean]

Sure its dissapointing, but I don't think that the Wolves choked here, and I don't think they lost the series because of lack of experience at all, which was the big argument going into this. The Wolves lost this series because oh talent and depth, the Lakers were simply the better team.

It was choking, man.

Kareem Rush is not that good, but he was surrounded by such confidence that he played like a hall of famer. I mean sure he didn't do much else, but 18 points from 6 shots? :nono:

On the other hand, Fred Hoiberg, who dominated for us against the Nuggets and Kings... disappeared. Wally didn't hit an open jumper in the last two-three games, and consistently fumbles the ball when the game is on the line. He had a wide-open shot that he took forever to shoot when we were down 3, and then after taking forever, he still missed it.

In Game 7 of the Kings series, the Timberwolves played like crap, except for Kevin Garnett. He had 2 assists, when he should have had many more, but his big men all were too nervous to hold onto the ball.

The nerves were obvious. The Lakers were all playing with smiles on their faces, they knew they were the better team, and the Wolves went in expecting to lose. That is why they choked. That is why the Wolves couldn't overcome being "underdogs." You gotta put the obvious aside. You need to believe in yourselves. Minnesota didn't do that. Lakers could beat any team ever with their level of confidence. All they have to do is feel that twinge of panic that tells them they have to win, and they could beat the Eastern all stars from like, 1990.

The way the Wolves played, they kept it close, they put the pressure on LA for 3 quarters, and in the 4th quarter they got so scared they couldn't capitalize. They got outscored with Shaq out of the game! That right there proves it. Everyone was so nervous, they turned the ball over a billion times and couldn't hit open shots. It was once again KG. And I hope people realize that, and never, ever again question KG's heart.

[Ninti Ishkur]

Now I am going for the East.

[Ninti Ishkur]

f the Lakers

[BCWWF]

Who has the better chance of beating them, Indiana or Detroit?

[AlphaBean]

http://www.record-eagle.com/2003/may/05piston.jpg

Terrorism will end this summer.

Ben Wallace will block all shots fired, and hard-foul anyone who gets in the way of America.

:yes:

[BCWWF]

Ben Wallace should join the T-Wolves :drool:

[The Outlaw]

Prince = :drool:

I heart both teams in the Finals. :love:

[The Icon of Elisim]

I think Detroit has the better chance. Artest had the better chance of stopping Kobe but they don't have the depth to throw at Shaq.

Detroit has Wallace, Rasheed, Campbell, Okur and Corliss to throw at Shaq. Plus Prince isn't going to do badly against Kobe, probably not too well though.

[Kid Robb]

Detroit is definately a harder matchup for the Lakers than Indiana would have been.

Lakers in 5 or 6 though I reckon.

Hope Detriot wins though.

[packt up]

Yeah Detroit stand a better chance...

but Lakers in 5.

[BCWWF]

Wow, I really wasn't expecting the East to end in six, thats good though, no rest advantage for the Lakers anymore.

I really think that if they play their game right, Detroit can pull this off. They have home court advantage don't they?

[The Outlaw]

Nah Lakers do I think.

Not 100% but I think I read it in the paper.

[BCWWF]

I was just reading above up there, and Bean was talking about teams trying to get Hudson...In Reusse's column today it said that KG was campaigning to get Hudson to come back. I know its going to be hard cause Hud wasn't happy when Sam came in, but if anyone can do it KG could convince him. Also it would be likely that Hudson would start next year if he came back.

Also, I just have to laugh at Juwon Howard, KG called him and said that if Juwon signed with the Wolves, he would sign an extension without a doubt, so Howard decided to go play with McGrady and the worst team in the league. Lol. I guess the jokes really on us though, we ended up with Kandi.

[BCWWF]

Nah Lakers do I think.

Not 100% but I think I read it in the paper.

I think home court is vital in this series. If Detroit has it they should be able to squeeze a game out, but if the Lakers start out its going to be a lot tougher for Detroit.

[PureHatred]

Lakers have homecourt. They had a better record than any other tteam in the NBA except Minnesota and Indiana.

[Ninti the Mad]

This topic died when Minnesota lost.

haha

game time soooooooooon

[The Outlaw]

GAME TIME :love:

[DaveWadding]

I bet you Danny Crawford is reffing. Danny Crawford reffing = Lakers win

[/Whiny T'Wolves fans]

[Kris P Lettus]

PISTONS!!1!

[The Outlaw]

lol dave :love:

Pistons :love:

Lakers :love: :love:

It's a no lose situation for meeee

[El Santo]

Comeoonnnnnn, PISTONS!

[Ninti the Mad]

PISTONS BABY YEAHG

[The Outlaw]

I called it :cool:

All the talk has gotten into their heads. Plus considering they didn't go to Shaq as much in the second half and he had 0 free throws in the second half. If I'm not mistaken Kobe was the only one who shot any, and he shot two.

They have done this all year pretty much, and against San Antonio. I'm not THAT worried but they will have to come out with fire in their eyes in the next game (and the rest of the series.

[Ninti the Mad]

Lakers will take nmext one.

I am pretty positive.

I hope I am wrong though!

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Although I do think the Lakers will still win the series I think it will be closer then I suspected

This win was nothing like the win the Sixers got againest LA a few years ago in the 1st game of the series. I figured the series was gonna be a lot like that series but I was wrong. This series has a different "feel" to it

[AlphaBean]

I bet you Danny Crawford is reffing. Danny Crawford reffing = Lakers win

[/Whiny T'Wolves fans]

Oh man hahahaha that was fucking hilarious. Did you come up with that yourself? Because it was pretty witty and I hadn't heard it before.

Also, I never said that Danny Crawford = Lakers win.

Meh, I don't enjoy being mocked by the less fortunate, this is the result. :nono:

So now let's actually post on topic here and say, way to go Pistons. The best defense for Shaq is to defend the shit out of the other 4 players.

Also, hey Lakers, how's it feel to get torched to ashes by a good point guard?

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

.

Also, hey Lakers, how's it feel to get torched to ashes by a good point guard?
Tony Parker already did that in this years playoffs, as well as last years.

[AlphaBean]

I was just reading above up there, and Bean was talking about teams trying to get Hudson...In Reusse's column today it said that KG was campaigning to get Hudson to come back. I know its going to be hard cause Hud wasn't happy when Sam came in, but if anyone can do it KG could convince him. Also it would be likely that Hudson would start next year if he came back.

Also, I just have to laugh at Juwon Howard, KG called him and said that if Juwon signed with the Wolves, he would sign an extension without a doubt, so Howard decided to go play with McGrady and the worst team in the league. Lol. I guess the jokes really on us though, we ended up with Kandi.

THud would probably start, no doubt. Sam's torn hip will slow him down even worse, to the point that next season he would probably have to be a backup.

Backup who could drop 20 points a night... but still a backup.

T-Hud is a big gamble though. Could be a huge talent for us, but on the other hand... injured all season, and didn't even have the stamina before that to play 35+ minutes a game.

Dunno. I'd love T-Hud to come back. The Wolves were gonna give him split playing time. It was his loser ass that got injured the entire season, and he wants to be handed a starting job?

I guess he doesn't care if that job is even, say, for the Suns in the NBA cellar?

[DaveWadding]

Sorry Bean, I just had to do it.

P-I-S-T-O-N-S!

[AlphaBean]

Tony Parker already did that in this years playoffs, as well as last years.

For two games. :-\

I wish he could have done it for 6.

[AlphaBean]

Sorry Bean, I just had to do it.

P-I-S-T-O-N-S!

Well next time put a little thought into it.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

For two games. :-\

I wish he could have done it for 6.
Me too

[The Outlaw]

Also, hey Lakers, how's it feel to get torched to ashes by a good point guard?

The same as it did when we got torched by Parker?

[AlphaBean]

The same as it did when we got torched by Parker?

We already went over this. The series was basically Tony Parker's to win for the Spurs and he choked.

Now it's up to Chauncey. I'd love to see him do it for the Pistons... because he wasn't here to do it for us. :nono:

[The Outlaw]

Yeah I didn't read the rest of the posts after that.

Like I've said all along, this series will be a lot closer and a lot more exciting than everyone said/thought. But I'm thinking the only reason people said that in the first place was because they hate the Lakers :-\

[BCWWF]

Tony Parker already did that in this years playoffs, as well as last years.

I recall him choking and sitting on the bench most of the finals last year?

[AlphaBean]

Yeah I didn't read the rest of the posts after that.

Like I've said all along, this series will be a lot closer and a lot more exciting than everyone said/thought. But I'm thinking the only reason people said that in the first place was because they hate the Lakers :-\

I say it because I'm a huge Ben mark. Most people are huge Ben marks. You can't not love the guy.

[The Outlaw]

No I meant I think the only reason people have said it was going to be boring and blowouts was because they hate the Lakers.

BEN WALLACE :love:

HOMETOWN BOY :love: :love:

[AlphaBean]

I said boring because the Pistons make basketball boring if you're into high-scoring highlight reel affairs.

Remember Ravens- Giants? Voted one of the most boring games ever because the Giants "potent offense" was destroyed by the Ravens D.

My favorite Superbowl EVER. Never seen a defense play better football than on that day. :love:

So to see the Lakers get shut down? Hell yeah.

Problem is, they give the ball to Shaq more, like in the Wolves series, it's a different ballgame.

However, I have faith in the pistons.

[Kid Robb]

:D :D :D PISTONS :love:

:D

[Goldbird]

GO LAKERS GO :love:


:D:D:D:D

[Kid Robb]

Want to beat the Lakers? Let Shaq get his points, but keep him off the boards and close down on Bryant, Malone, Fisher, George, Payton and co.

Shaq - 34 and 10
Kobe 25, but on 10-27 (1-4 3pt)
Payton 3
Malone 4
George 5
Fisher 2
Rush 0

Sorry PureHatred you were saying?

Kobe got his, but if he's hoisting 27 shots to get 25 points, I'd cop it.

[The Outlaw]

Shaq could have had 50 easily if they would have kept going to him. :(

[BCWWF]

Has Shaq ever even scored 50 in one game?

[The Miz]

Has Shaq ever even scored 50 in one game?

No but hes scored 60

[BCWWF]

I never remembered him having a dominant scoring night like that. Like Kevin Garnett can totally dominate a game but I'm not sure he's ever scored 45 points in a game, I thought Shaq was the same way. High percentage shots etc.

[AlphaBean]

I never remembered him having a dominant scoring night like that. Like Kevin Garnett can totally dominate a game but I'm not sure he's ever scored 45 points in a game, I thought Shaq was the same way. High percentage shots etc.

KG is unselfish.

Shaq got 60 on his birthday I think. They just kept feeding him the ball.

Remember KG got 35 at the All Star game? :cool:

And imagine how many points he could get if fouls actually got called on him?

Like, 1) He'd go to the line 10+ times a game and 2) People would foul him less, because fouling him would no longer be a defense as it is for Shaq - KG is ok from the FT line. 3) If KG wasn't abused all game with no calls, he would have enough energy to take over in the 4th quarter in almost every game.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/phil_taylor/06/01/nba.referees/index.html

:nono:

[The Outlaw]

:sleep:

[The Outlaw]

His high this year was 37 I think.

Last year he popped 40 on Minnesota, 42 on the Clippers, and 48 on Boston.

Year before he had a lot more 40+ games. Then back in 2000 he had 61 against the Clips.

The thing is, he always has a high shooting percentage in these games and he still (for the most part) misses a lot of free throws. I always hear people talk about what if Kobe didn't play with Shaq, saying he would shatter scoring records and such. These people should be slapped. Kobe, TMac, Iverson, etc. are guys who shoot 30+ times a LOT of the time. Most of the games where Shaq scores so much he shoots 70+ % from the field. If he got the ball more and could be decent from the line, he would be unstoppable, IMO of course. ;)

[AlphaBean]

His high this year was 37 I think.

Last year he popped 40 on Minnesota, 42 on the Clippers, and 48 on Boston.

Year before he had a lot more 40+ games. Then back in 2000 he had 61 against the Clips.

The thing is, he always has a high shooting percentage in these games and he still (for the most part) misses a lot of free throws. I always hear people talk about what if Kobe didn't play with Shaq, saying he would shatter scoring records and such. These people should be slapped. Kobe, TMac, Iverson, etc. are guys who shoot 30+ times a LOT of the time. Most of the games where Shaq scores so much he shoots 70+ % from the field. If he got the ball more and could be decent from the line, he would be unstoppable, IMO of course. ;)

What ifs? If he was in better shape, and a few years younger, and got the ball more, and put in consistent effort, and could shoot free throws, yeah he'd be unstoppable.

[The Outlaw]

Where did I say anything about him being a few years younger, put in a consistent effort, and was in better shape? :?:

Right now (as in PRESENT time), if he got the ball more/shot more, he would be the league's leading scorer and even moreso the most dominating player in the league.

[AlphaBean]

Where did I say anything about him being a few years younger, put in a consistent effort, and was in better shape? :?:

Right now (as in PRESENT time), if he got the ball more/shot more, he would be the league's leading scorer and even moreso the most dominating player in the league.

I didn't say you said that.

I said I said that.

You said unstoppable. I amended the requisits to become "unstoppable."

He would be the most dominant player in the league, for certain, but teams could still hack-a-Shaq, and can still out-hustle him, and I mean, he was below 100 percent for what, 2 seasons because of his toe?

And sometimes he doesn't try all that hard.

PS: He got called for 3 seconds on a play where he spent 10 seconds in the paint, traveled, and threw an elbow into his defender's face.

I'd be dominant if I didn't have to play by the rules too. :cool:

[BCWWF]

Shaq has played with Kobe wasn't there, and he is better with Kobe. This is just a huge assumption that if Shaq takes 20 more shots a night he will score 30 more points, and that is rediculous, because if he was capable of doing that he already would be.

[The Outlaw]

No. He's not a ballhog, he gets his teamates involved no matter where he has been. I'm just saying it's pretty pathetic people say Kobe would do a lot better without Shaq, that's all.

[AlphaBean]

Every shooter needs a post-up player.

Shaq is the best in the post (even without Stern's help)

Every big man needs an outlet for when he's triple-teamed. Shaq not as much as other post players, but it's still important -- his percentage would be down if he had someone swiping at the ball from his front while another player tried to post him up.

Kobe is one of the best shooters and cutters.

I think they belong together. It's a working formula. Just like KG can make any Point Guard a star... Shaq makes his entire backcourt better.

And I mean, Malone should be getting 35 a night against teams that commit the double team on Shaq. What the fuck? It's like he's not even going to try his hardest because he knows he doesn't have to. What a bitch.

[BCWWF]

I don't think either Shaq or Kobe would be better alone

[The Outlaw]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I agree that they thrive off of each other's presence. I just got really irritated at a mate of mine because he was ripping Shaq down saying Kobe would be a lot more dominant playing elsewhere where he would be getting all the shots.

Sorry if I didn't make it more clear. :$

[The Outlaw]

Also, who was it that said this would be a lot closer/more exciting series?

Oh yeah. :cool:

[AlphaBean]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I agree that they thrive off of each other's presence. I just got really irritated at a mate of mine because he was ripping Shaq down saying Kobe would be a lot more dominant playing elsewhere where he would be getting all the shots.

Sorry if I didn't make it more clear. :$


Kobe would be a lot more dominant, yes.

He would be putting up Tracy McGrady numbers.

You know, like 35 points, 12 boards, 60 losses. :lol:

[BCWWF]

Kobe's #'s would probably increase more than Shaqs would if they were playing alone, but that also means that Kobe would be shooting more low percentage shots, so it wouldn't neccessarily mean he was better or more dominant. High percentage shots win games.

[AlphaBean]

Kobe's #'s would probably increase more than Shaqs would if they were playing alone, but that also means that Kobe would be shooting more low percentage shots, so it wouldn't neccessarily mean he was better or more dominant. High percentage shots win games.

Just the long and unfunny way of repeating what I said. :rant:

[Ninti Ishkur]

Also, who was it that said this would be a lot closer/more exciting series?

Oh yeah. :cool:

I knew it would be awesome.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I thought it was going to suck but I am wrong so far

That 3 pointer might completely kill this series. Although the Pistons came out with the split I highly doubt they were feeling good after losing a game they should have won.

[AlphaBean]

I thought it was going to suck but I am wrong so far

That 3 pointer might completely kill this series. Although the Pistons came out with the split I highly doubt they were feeling good after losing a game they should have won.


I called it. With an assload of time to go, they said something about no team EVER making it out of a 2-0 hole. I said, either they will lose 3 and come back and win the final 4 to defy history, OR they will tie the game and send it to OT and win, gaining momentum and breaking the Pistons.

HOWEVER.

Remember, vs the Nets Chauncey hits a half-court shot at the buzzer to send it to Overtime. Three overtimes later, they lose the game.

I think if any team can overcome a "demoralizing loss," it's the Pistons.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I hope so

Ben Wallace is my homeboy

[The Outlaw]

I now feel like Bean did with Crawford. :-\

[The Icon of Elisim]

LOL at the pop for Darko's rebound

[AlphaBean]

I now feel like Bean did with Crawford. :-\

Did I ever mention the article written about how David Stern is orchestrating the NBA? The guy predicted that Stern is setting up the Lakers for a fall...

I LOVED tonight's game. I orgasmed on my TV.

BUT I will not be like other people and try denying poor officiating, just because the game went my way. :D

On one hand, Shaq's bullshit finally got called... FINALLY... on the other hand, I saw so many uncalled hand-checks, I don't know what to think.

Horrible officiating but HAHAHAHAHA OMG history was made tonight! 68 points. :love:

[The Outlaw]

Thing about it is, Shaq didn't have a bad game.

LOL @ SHaq's press conference.

"Hello, I am so and so from israel TV. It seems like there was a period of time where they were going to you every single possession and you were scoring and dominating and then they kind of stopped."

"Yeah. Story of my life buddy."

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

OH MAN Lakers got shitted on 2niiiiiite

LOVIN IT

[The Outlaw]

lol @ Karl poking the Detroit fan in the eye :eek:

[The Miz]

Another solid effort from Payton & Malone. What great contributions that dynamic duo has brought to this finals

[BCWWF]

Detroit must win this next game, otherwise they will have worked too hard early and lose it in the end IMO.

BTW, if the Lakers bring back Payton next year, they are dumb (I guess its not really their choice though is it?)

[The Dub]

Detroit must win this next game, otherwise they will have worked too hard early and lose it in the end IMO.

BTW, if the Lakers bring back Payton next year, they are dumb (I guess its not really their choice though is it?)
I wouldn't say that. Game 5 is the game that Detroit must win. They can't let L.A. get any momentum going back to L.A., even though Detriot should have taken the first two there. Besides, L.A. has lost the last 7 Finals series in which they trailed 2-1. Gary Payton has shown without a shadow of a doubt that he is washed up, yet the commentators try to defend him based on the player he used to be. He hasn't averaged ten points a game in any of their playoff series.

[AlphaBean]

I wouldn't say that. Game 5 is the game that Detroit must win. They can't let L.A. get any momentum going back to L.A., even though Detriot should have taken the first two there. Besides, L.A. has lost the last 7 Finals series in which they trailed 2-1. Gary Payton has shown without a shadow of a doubt that he is washed up, yet the commentators try to defend him based on the player he used to be. He hasn't averaged ten points a game in any of their playoff series.

1) He's trying too hard to back off and let the Shaq and Kobe show do their thing. If he tried to take over the team, he would piss off the two players who "matter" there.

2) He's on cruise control, because all he wants is a ring. He doesn't want to stay in Los Angeles, so he will play well enough to ensure they win the series, then go elsewhere or retire.

3) He doesn't fit into the system. I can buy that, he didn't fit into the Triangle, so they abandoned it... now what? The ball still doesn't run through him. It should, and I think he is worse because it doesn't.

4) He is getting destroyed on the pick and roll. Shaq's big fat ass is the reason that teams can pick Payton without worrying, and getting their PG free. Either they need a LONG, athletic Forward, or they need to trade Shaq for a more athletic Center and you know, 6 draft picks and a bench defender.

You never know. He has a big ego and he put it in check to help the Lakers. I don't think he realizes that the Lakers really need his help. I think he's sitting back so that he doesn't rock the boat... because an ego like his would take the game over and piss everyone off.

Am I saying he's the same player he's always been? No. But I have faith that he has the ability to be productive... at least moreso than he is now. This is pathetic. This isn't being washed up. He produced last year, the dropoff is indicative of far bigger problems than age.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Yea he really doesn't fit at all. Gary Payton is obviously a better player then Derek Fisher overall, but for the Lakers style of play, DFish is a WAY better fit.

Payton's defense has been lacking big time though...He has been getting shitted on A LOT in these playoffs

[CNM]

Remember when Payton was considered THE top defensive guard in the league? Now he gets torched on a regular basis.

[BCWWF]

Having the good point guard coming off the bench is a key point for good teams though.

Van Exel from Dallas, Jackson from Sacramento, Fisher from LA, so if you can have a guy as good as D-Fish coming off the bench, it is a huge advantage, also I think he thrives on his bench role.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Well thats pretty obvious. Most good teams have depth at the PG spot

Lakers used to have capable backups coming off the bench when Fisher was the starter. I remember back when Sixers played the Lakers in the finals Tyrone Lue came off the bench and was the only able to slow Iverson down at all in Game 1.

[AlphaBean]

Yea he really doesn't fit at all. Gary Payton is obviously a better player then Derek Fisher overall, but for the Lakers style of play, DFish is a WAY better fit.

Payton's defense has been lacking big time though...He has been getting shitted on A LOT in these playoffs

Wolves can defend the pick and roll.

Know why?

They don't have a 400 pound Center and a 50 year old PF.

Nuggets can defend the pick and roll with Camby.

Pistons have three dudes with huge wingspans to defend it.

Jermaine O'Neal can defend it.

The Lakers are the most ill-equipped team in the world for the pick and roll, and that's why Payton's defense is shit.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Yeah, he's not getting burned on every play due to the pick and roll. He is getting beat off the dribble, guys are getting around him and getting to the bucket easy. He is not disturbing any type of offense flow like he used to do. He isn't getting into anybodys head like he used yo. You seem to be a HUGE Payton fan for some reason, but he isn't getting any younger and he isn't anywhere close to where he was a few years ago on the defensive side of the ball.

[AlphaBean]

Yeah, he's not getting burned on every play due to the pick and roll. He is getting beat off the dribble, guys are getting around him and getting to the bucket easy. He is not disturbing any type of offense flow like he used to do. He isn't getting into anybodys head like he used yo. You seem to be a HUGE Payton fan for some reason, but he isn't getting any younger and he isn't anywhere close to where he was a few years ago on the defensive side of the ball.

I think he just doesn't fit.

Sam Cassell is a defensive liability, and he had the best season ever. Why? Because be was our Point Guard. The ball was his.

The Lakers have so many egos, it's like, whose ball is it? It sure as fuck ain't Gary Payton's. He spent his entire career being the Captain, the General of his team. Now he's the 4th option, sometimes even 5th. :nono:

I know he's lost a step, but there is a place for a good PG who isn't that fast... I just don't think Los Angeles is it.

I could be wrong, but I dunno. You can tell that GP is not happy there.

[The Outlaw]

Yeah I kind of get the vibe he isn't happy either. It's like he's just going through the motions, he doesn't care if he scores or makes a big defensive play like he used to.

I would guarantee you, if he went out and scored 20 and had 10-11 dimes, no LA fan would be mad. ;)

[AlphaBean]

That's why I said... I can buy that he's lost a step, okay?

But he hasn't lost 10 steps. If he wanted to, he could dominate a game. Unless he's doing it on purpose, or is hiding an illness or something, as bad as he has become, you don't do that overnight.

[Kid Robb]

Payton will be back with someone else next year and back to himself.

No Phil Jackon/triangle offence team has ever had a dominant point guard. There's no need for it. The role of the guards is to initiate the offence and hit shots (Jordan/Bryant/Steve Kerr etc) or defend (guys like Ron Harper). Payton doesn't fit into this mould, so he'll move on next season, with or without his ring.

[The Outlaw]

Just go ahead and serve it up on a silver platter. :n:

Hey, my name is *insert any Laker besides Shaq*, we have the most dominating player on the court but we aren't going to give him the ball when it matters the most.

Doc Rivers is also a moron.

[AlphaBean]

36 points and he didn't get the ball? :p

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Anyone else notice Karl looked like he was about to cry deep in the 4th?

[The Outlaw]

He had what, 27 going into the fourth?

Not counting those last two, thats a whole 7 points in the fourth.

Yeah, when it mattered the most he didn't get the ball.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Anyway, here is my take on everything.

LA as a whole is used to being a dominating offensive power, they aren't used to such a great defensive team. Kobe is getting completely frustrated and it's hurting most of his looks, GP doesn't really want to be there, Karl has become more of a liability since he's scared to shoot, Shaq well... Shaq is doing well. LA still needs to find a third guy to step up to take some pressure off Shaq and Kobe though.

When everyone was talking LA in 4 or 5, they neglected to realize just how good defensively the Pistons are, and how little the LA are challenged in that way.

[AlphaBean]

He had what, 27 going into the fourth?

Not counting those last two, thats a whole 7 points in the fourth.

Yeah, when it mattered the most he didn't get the ball.

True.

NOT ONLY did he dominate... but the stupid Pistons kept on fouling him every time he shot. :lol: I was getting angry at Sheed and Prince et al. who kept hitting him when they had no chance of stopping anything.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

He had what, 27 going into the fourth?

Not counting those last two, thats a whole 7 points in the fourth.

Yeah, when it mattered the most he didn't get the ball.

They should have got him the ball in the 4th no question, problem was Kobe got so frustrated with everything he tried to take over on a night he just didn't have the touch.

Shaq also could have been a liability that deep in the 4th, if the Pistons went Hack-a-Shaq. But LA still should have went to him, at least that way you're promised a few.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

How many more games everyone thinking. I'm tempted to say two more, I just feel like LA will step up for the next game, then get over confident (again) in LA.

[AlphaBean]

They should have got him the ball in the 4th no question, problem was Kobe got so frustrated with everything he tried to take over on a night he just didn't have the touch.

Shaq also could have been a liability that deep in the 4th, if the Pistons went Hack-a-Shaq. But LA still should have went to him, at least that way you're promised a few.

He needed to shoot more 30-foot off-balance shots when the clock ran out. He'd have scored 40.

he he he.

Also, my prediction is that the Pistons will try their asses off to win game 5... I mean... you can't let the Lakers get their swagger back.

Zen Master ain't got SHIT on Brown. :cool:

[HeartBreakMan2k]

You know what, I think the only reason he hit those shots (Kobe's buzzer beaters) is because he just stopped thinking. I think those shots were the only times he wasn't completely frustrated as he was so rushed to shoot.

[BCWWF]

I think they already are overconfident. All of that "professionalism" crap is coming back to bite them in the ass. They were saying tonight wasn't a "must win" game, and they lost it, now they are absolutely screwed, and they are lucky to be still in it. Sheed, Rip, Ben, they just want it more. Like the announcers said today, Sheed is so crazy because he just wants to win. If the Lakers are going to take this championship as business as usual, they are done.

[AlphaBean]

I think they already are overconfident. All of that "professionalism" crap is coming back to bite them in the ass. They were saying tonight wasn't a "must win" game, and they lost it, now they are absolutely screwed, and they are lucky to be still in it. Sheed, Rip, Ben, they just want it more. Like the announcers said today, Sheed is so crazy because he just wants to win. If the Lakers are going to take this championship as business as usual, they are done.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2004/columns/story?id=1820189

Eh, the Pistons aren't doing anything, it's just the Lakers aren't executing. They're just not hustling enough.

This was BEFORE tonight's game. The Lakers said all it takes to win is to try harder, to pass, to set up shots... it's not the Pistons beating them, it's THEMSELVES.

ARGH.

They will never give props to the Pistons ever.

Even Kobe gave the Wolves props... of course, he can do that from the position of winner. Phil has no problem giving credit to the other team in a loss.

:nono:

[The Miz]

HAHAHAH f</>uck you Lakers. It's great that not only is Malone not gonna win his title, but he's one of the main reasons why his team didn;t win. :D

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Well, the Lakers aren't helping their case either, but yeah, The Pistons are destroying LA.

[Splaya]

1 Game away. I called it. I said Pistons in 5 over Lakers before the Finals started. You bitches better be ready to rep after Game 5 :mad:

[AlphaBean]

HAHAHAH f</>uck you Lakers. It's great that not only is Malone not gonna win his title, but he's one of the main reasons why his team didn;t win. :D

Don't jinx it!

Also, Robert Horry wouldn't have done much better, so the Lakers proved once again that they need a PF.

Shoulda kept Samaki Walker. :lol:

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

WOW I am shocked. Detriot had control of the game hte entire time, the score wasn't lopsided like last time but I was never worried about the Lakers making a push to win it

Kinda pisses me off though. I mean I am glad that somebody other then the Lakers is winning, but I just think back to 2 years ago when the Celtics where better then the Pistons. Now the Celtics suck and Detriot has improved greatly. Pisses me off...why couldn't have the Celtics done the samething?? :mad: Its not Detroit completely revamped their roster, I mean Prince and Rasheed got added on but other then that there wasn't much. Their guys have just gotten better for whatever reasons where as the Celtics dump an all star for a 7 foot bum that only shoots 3 pointers :mad:

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Don't jinx it!

Also, Robert Horry wouldn't have done much better, so the Lakers proved once again that they need a PF.

Shoulda kept Samaki Walker. :lol:They still got Horace Grant in street clothes. I am a pretty big sports fan and I seriously thought he retired 2 years ago hahah

[The Outlaw]

1 Game away. I called it. I said Pistons in 5 over Lakers before the Finals started. You bitches better be ready to rep after Game 5 :mad:

Like I said in another thread, nothing you say will be listened to.

:(

[Splaya]

WOW I am shocked. Detriot had control of the game hte entire time, the score wasn't lopsided like last time but I was never worried about the Lakers making a push to win it

Kinda pisses me off though. I mean I am glad that somebody other then the Lakers is winning, but I just think back to 2 years ago when the Celtics where better then the Pistons. Now the Celtics suck and Detriot has improved greatly. Pisses me off...why couldn't have the Celtics done the samething?? :mad: Its not Detroit completely revamped their roster, I mean Prince and Rasheed got added on but other then that there wasn't much. Their guys have just gotten better for whatever reasons where as the Celtics dump an all star for a 7 foot bum that only shoots 3 pointers :mad:


It's called the coach and maturity

[Splaya]

Like I said in another thread, nothing you say will be listened to.

:(


So what. I'll always be able to tell you guys that I was right and you were wrong.