So can we all agree that Jericho return sucks?

[BigDaddyCool]

From his gay vests to his lackluster promos and medicore matches, this whole thing sucks. Yay or nay?

[Mr Regal]

Don't hate the player

[Mercury Bullet]

Its not his fault that wrestling is in the state that it is in...I will say its left a little to be desired though.

[BigDaddyCool]

damnit Mercury Bullet, you didn't vote kliq.

[Chavo Classic]

How long do they say that Rome was built in...?

[Loose Cannon]

it was poorly put together. You would think with all those video packages, he would come back and be the Sting of 97, but it's been shit. He gets put in mid card matches, his promos are decent, but nothing special and he's not even getting that big of pops as he should be. I don't know, he's nothing then your average upper mid card guy right now. He's showed he can be tremendous on the mic in the past, but i have yet to see it. Santino's promo against him was 10x better that Raw.

so to some it up, it's been very lackluster thus far.

[Fox]

WWE didn't even show his entrance for his match last night. Fucking ridiculous.

[BigDaddyCool]

it was poorly put together. You would think with all those video packages, he would come back and be the Sting of 97, but it's been shit. He gets put in mid card matches, his promos are decent, but nothing special and he's not even getting that big of pops as he should be. I don't know, he's nothing then your average upper mid card guy right now. He's showed he can be tremendous on the mic in the past, but i have yet to see it. Santino's promo against him was 10x better that Raw.

so to some it up, it's been very lackluster thus far.

I've argued that he has never been anything more than uppermid card at best. The unforutate thing is right now no one is a real maineventer execpt maybe HBK, HHH, Undertaker and Edge. Everyone else is uppermid card forced into the mainevent out of nessecity. Coupled with the fact that both HBK and HHH are actaully staying out of the mainevent for once in their selffish careers. All this together, and Jericho, to me, looks like an uppermid carded when compared to Orton who is a only a maineventer right now by default.

[BigDaddyCool]

WWE didn't even show his entrance for his match last night. Fucking ridiculous.

Yeah they did. But they did start the match during commersials.

[Londoner]

WWE didn't even show his entrance for his match last night. Fucking ridiculous.

They did over here, then the adverts came on.

[BigDaddyCool]

How long do they say that Rome was built in...?

Jericho is a wrestler not one of the most powerful empires the world has ever known.

[Londoner]

As for the question, im enjoying it.

[Jeritron]

You're a fuckin idiot. We get it, you're trying your hardest to be funny and you just really aren't. Another thread? Suck my dick and you can *bdca* mushroom stamp of approval that

[Jeritron]

uh oh, I better be fuckin terrified because you're in the kliq

[Jeritron]

get laid

[IC Champion]

Its not his fault that wrestling is in the state that it is in...I will say its left a little to be desired though.

[Destor]

Jerimark

[BigDaddyCool]

I will say Jericho is doing better than Mr. Kennedy.

[Mercury Bullet]

I just can't say it altogether sucked. I don't think it did, and I don't think we will be able to tell for sure until he's been around a while and we see what he's done.

[Londoner]

Well said jeritron.

[Destor]

Its not his fault that wrestling is in the state that it is in...I will say its left a little to be desired though.
Yeah, he shouldn't be held accountable for stinking up the ring, because it's everyone else's fault.

[Jeritron]

Another thing I've been meaning to say, which I'm suprised you don't know as huge wrestling fans is that "the kliq" doesn't refer to that group of guys.

That would be "the clique".

"The Kliq" is the spelling and usage dedicated to Shawn Michaels fans in 1996, which consisted of horny teenage girls with too much hair spray, and little gay faggots with leather conductor hats and clip on earings (including Bret Harts sons)

[Destor]

semantics

[Mercury Bullet]

Speaking of Kennedy, yeh, he really seems to be heading in the wrong direction lately and I'm starting to get sick of him.

[thedamndest]

I think they're still figuring out how to work with Jericho, as a character that has been away for two years, whether he needs to be as egotistical as before or more focused in the ring, or what. He's been moving around just fine and I think he's fully capable of going out and having 10 star matches. His entrance is still one of the best (though I think the additional pyro may be over-doing it). I think rushing into a program with Orton isn't the best choice, but also really the only choice due to the way the brought about his comeback. I'm gonna give it some time, but I'd still prefer Raw is Jericho to Raw is Cena.

[Destor]

Speaking of Kennedy, yeh, he really seems to be heading in the wrong direction lately and I'm starting to get sick of him.
Yeah that promo Monday was weak.

[Kane Knight]

I'd agree but OMFG ITS JERICHO!!!!! *drool*

[thedamndest]

Speaking of Kennedy, yeh, he really seems to be heading in the wrong direction lately and I'm starting to get sick of him.

Probably one of those "This looks good on the script" things. Or just normal WWE booking, who knows?

[BigDaddyCool]

You're a fuckin idiot. We get it, you're trying your hardest to be funny and you just really aren't. Another thread? Suck my dick and you can *bdca* mushroom stamp of approval that

:-\ I'm not trying to be funny. I honestly do feel this whole Jericho thing is piss poor. And it makes me sad. I knew from the get go there would be a ton a hype with out a ton of result. I'm not saying it is all Jericho's fault, WWE has dropped a few of the balls. But then again it is Jericho going out and giving the same tired promos from 2 years ago that haven't freshened up simply because he wasn't around.

It makes me sad that so far I've been right on him being subpar. I know no one wrestler can change wrestling. Doesn't mean I didn't hope he would. I would have loved to be proven wrong. But so far this is a train wreck. Also, *BDCA* is so last week.

[Fox]

Yeah they did. But they did start the match during commersials.

I guess I walked away before his entrance. When I came back it was commercials, and then his match.

Still though. You cut to commercial during a Women's Title match; not the second coming's match.

[Chavo Classic]

Jericho is a wrestler not one of the most powerful empires the world has ever known.

My point remains. It's only been a couple of weeks and it took months before Y2J hit his peak during his first run in the company.

Give the guy a break. He's coming back to a stale product, having been out of the ring for two years and having to live up to a hell of a lot of hype.

[Mercury Bullet]

Yeah, he shouldn't be held accountable for stinking up the ring, because it's everyone else's fault.

Its not his fault that wrestling is in the state that it is in...

There's no one person you can pin the blame on. I think everybody should share some accountability. Yeh, there is no Rock, Austin, etc...that doesn't mean everybody shrugs there shoulders and says "Well what now?" Somebody needs to step up and be that next Rock or Austin that sparks things. It could be Jericho. But just because it hasn't been him in the big two weeks he's been back, I don't think we should crucify him for it just yet.

[BigDaddyCool]

Probably one of those "This looks good on the script" things. Or just normal WWE booking, who knows?

It reeks of Vince being a baby and wanting to piss on former employees for no reason other than he can. Probably still holds a grudge on Hall and Nash because WCW offered them more money and a better push.

[IC Champion]

Wrestling sucks, I dont see how Jericho stands out anymore than anyone else, other than he was over hyped, other than that, he's no worse than a HHH or such.

[Destor]

There's no one person you can pin the blame on. I think everybody should share some accountability. Yeh, there is no Rock, Austin, etc...that doesn't mean everybody shrugs there shoulders and says "Well what now?" Somebody needs to step up and be that next Rock or Austin that sparks things. It could be Jericho. But just because it hasn't been him in the big two weeks he's been back, I don't think we should crucify him for it just yet.But we can admit he's stinking up the joint? RIGHT? Cause you know, he is.

[Jeritron]

Your sad face legitimately melted my heard BDC. I'm sorry. You don't have to suck my dick or stamp of approval it. I'll let you off the hook with a handjob

[Nark Order]

So, I know I'm gonna get hated on by a thousand TNA/ROH/cruiser marks but honestly, one of the big problems I'm seeing with Jericho after his return is his size and lack of muscle mass. It is just hard to see the guy as a real threat. IMO, he could stand to gain 15-20 lbs. Not saying he's terrible the way he is but probably not main event status.

[Destor]

It's not about not being the next ROck or Austin. His matches have BLOWN. His promops have been worse. Satino worked a better match last Monday than Jericho did. I mean fuck, once Santino carries you threw a match (and a promo) you know your shit aint together.

[BigDaddyCool]

I guess I walked away before his entrance. When I came back it was commercials, and then his match.

Still though. You cut to commercial during a Women's Title match; not the second coming's match.

I totally agree with that. Umaga who has been a mainevent threat for months, and Jericho who is suppose to be the second coming of Jesus in what is billed as the first of 2 mainevents they start during commersials?

[Mercury Bullet]

But we can admit he's stinking up the joint? RIGHT? Cause you know, he is.

Yeh but we can't definitively say "he sucks" because he hasn't made us all mark out like little bitches about anything in the two weeks he's been back. He hasn't had enough time to un-stink the joint.

[Mercury Bullet]

He's also been out of wrestling for years, I wouldn't expect him to come back putting on 5 star classics, or cutting uber mark-out promos.

[Destor]

Yeh but we can't definitively say "he sucks" because he hasn't made us all mark out like little bitches about anything in the two weeks he's been back. He hasn't had enough time to un-stink the joint.
A lot of it is just ring rust that he'll wear off in the coming monthes, but as of right now he's damn hard to watch. When someone asks me what I think up until this point the answer is it's been shit.

He'll get better, but right now good lord is it hard to sit through.

[Mercury Bullet]

I think it'll start to "click" for him in the coming weeks...

If it doesn't then I'll say he's stinking up the joint.

[Destor]

He's BEEN stinking up the joint, present and past tense. I am however confident he will improve drastically once he gets back into the swing.

[Mercury Bullet]

Yeh but wrestling just stinks, period, right now. This time next month if he hasn't done a damn thing better than he's doing right now, then I think its fair to nail him for it.

[Mercury Bullet]

If they brought Monty Brown back and pushed him to the moon that would save wrestling.

[BigDaddyCool]

Yeh but we can't definitively say "he sucks" because he hasn't made us all mark out like little bitches about anything in the two weeks he's been back. He hasn't had enough time to un-stink the joint.

I marked out harder for the APA's return than Jericho's.

[Mercury Bullet]

I marked out harder for the APA's return than Jericho's.

Because at least their return was somewhat unpredictable. (Albeit it had a brief build up w/ The Swog on the phone)

It wasn't MONTHS and MONTHS of save_us.APA

[Chavo Classic]

I marked out harder for the APA's return than Jericho's.

Maybe because it was unexpected. We had weeks knowing that Jericho was coming back and built up this idolised, and unachievable, misconception that once he came back, it would all be alright again,.

[Loose Cannon]

all wrestling needs is a well put together 6 month storyline with twists and turns and progression. a stoyryline that involves most of the main guys in the company. it's not that hard and believe it or not, it has been done before.

[Destor]

Yeh but wrestling just stinks, period, right now. This time next month if he hasn't done a damn thing better than he's doing right now, then I think its fair to nail him for it.
Wrestling stinking doesn't excuse Jericho haveing bad matces/promos. It's a bullshit argument.

If wrestling sucks he should standind as the shinig gem of the product by comparison.

[BigDaddyCool]

He's also been out of wrestling for years, I wouldn't expect him to come back putting on 5 star classics, or cutting uber mark-out promos.

I understand you point about ring rust. But there in no excuss for his promos sucking as bad as they have. It is easy to practice those in like the car while driving to work or the store or somehting. In fact that is all i do. I cut promos on everyone around me. I could probably cut promo's around jerichos stupid ass right now.

[Destor]

But he sucks worse.

[Mercury Bullet]

But it is hard to look good when nobody else around you does either. Not saying he even does look good right now, but he sure doesn't have any help either. It takes two to work a match, and an interesting storyline to cut a promo. He's had neither.

[Mercury Bullet]

FINE. TWO FUCKING WEEKS INTO HIS RETURN HE SUCKS.

THERE. I SAID IT.

[Destor]

Bro Ric Flair could cut a promo on a broom and then work it to a 5 star match. Period.


On a side note I once saw a guy wrestle a broom at a show I worked on and honstely he stole the show.

[BigDaddyCool]

But it is hard to look good when nobody else around you does either. Not saying he even does look good right now, but he sure doesn't have any help either. It takes two to work a match, and an interesting storyline to cut a promo. He's had neither.

It is not hard to look good when everyone else sucks. MVP does it.

[BigDaddyCool]

FINE. TWO FUCKING WEEKS INTO HIS RETURN HE SUCKS.

THERE. I SAID IT.

Doesn't that feel better? K4L.

[Mercury Bullet]

Bro Ric Flair could cut a promo on a broom and then work it to a 5 star match. Period.


On a side note I once saw a guy wrestle a broom at a show I worked on and honstely he stole the show.

Yeh but how many people are RIC FLAIR!?!

THAT is a bullshit argument!

[Mercury Bullet]

It is not hard to look good when everyone else sucks. MVP does it.

MVP has also been actively wrestling for...

Forget it. Nevermind.

[Mercury Bullet]

Jericho Sucks.

[Nark Order]

Why do you feel it neccesary to try to take the piss out of something that people have been waiting every waking moment for for two years? It is apparent by your survey that the majority disagrees with you.

[Destor]

Yeh but how many people are RIC FLAIR!?!

THAT is a bullshit argument! Nah compare everything to the top of the bar.

[BigDaddyCool]

Yeh but how many people are RIC FLAIR!?!

THAT is a bullshit argument!

2. Ric Flair and Shawn Micheals.

[Mercury Bullet]

But if everything is compared to the top of the bar then nothing is ever any good.

[BigDaddyCool]

Why do you feel it neccesary to try to take the piss out of something that people have been waiting every waking moment for for two years? It is apparent by your survey that the majority disagrees with you.

I'm sorry, I should just go with the flow and not cause any waves or nothing. I forget this is an agreement board not a discussion board. :roll:

[Destor]

But if everything is compared to the top of the bar then nothing is ever any good.
Nah, things are rarely great. They can still be good.

[BigDaddyCool]

But if everything is compared to the top of the bar then nothing is ever any good.

Wrong, it just puts everything in its proper place. Flair/HBK > MVP > Chris Jericho > Most everything else > Ken Kennedy > Carlito.

[Innovator]

all wrestling needs is a well put together 6 month storyline with twists and turns and progression. a stoyryline that involves most of the main guys in the company. it's not that hard and believe it or not, it has been done before.
Something Dreamer/Raven like where a lot of people are connected to the storyline.

[Nark Order]

I'm sorry, I should just go with the flow and not cause any waves or nothing. I forget this is an agreement board not a discussion board. :roll:

It isn't that. You already have 1 or 2 threads about how Jericho sucks. How many do you really need to get your point across. We understand that you are not in favor of Jericho's return. Good for you. I applaud you. Now shut up.

[BigDaddyCool]

It is apparent by your survey that the majority disagrees with you.

Also, as of this only 11 people in the entire board complete disagree with me. While techincally I'm in the minority of non-trained smarks, it is 3 to 11, that is hard a great majorty.

[BigDaddyCool]

It isn't that. You already have 1 or 2 threads about how Jericho sucks. How many do you really need to get your point across. We understand that you are not in favor of Jericho's return. Good for you. I applaud you. Now shut up.

I only have 1 other thread dedicated to jericho sucking, another i mentioned he sucked in, and then a bunch of people analyzed me saying he sucks. I suppose I should have pulled up my original Jericho sucks thread, but I don't know how to put a poll in once the thread has already been made like a week ago.

[BigDaddyCool]

Plus, I mainly just enjoy arguing.

[Mercury Bullet]

Flair/HBK > MVP > Chris Jericho > Most everything else > Ken Kennedy > Carlito.

I can pretty much agree with that. Though personally, I would put a few more >'s in front of Carlito.

[Mercury Bullet]

Flair/HBK > MVP > Monty Brown > Chris Jericho > Most everything else > Kennedy > Sand in your eyes > Swift kick in the groin > Teddy Hart > Carlito

[BigDaddyCool]

I can pretty much agree with that. Though personally, I would put a few more >'s in front of Carlito.

Yeah, it was pretty general. There are also a few > inbetween HBK and MVP and then a few > inbetween MVP and Jericho. Alls I'm saying is that MVP carried Benoit to the best matches of Benoit's life.

[Destor]

Yeah, it was pretty general. There are also a few > inbetween HBK and MVP and then a few > inbetween MVP and Jericho. Alls I'm saying is that MVP carried Benoit to the best matches of Benoit's life.
Rofl, no. Liger, Hart, Booker. Best matches of Benoits life. The MVP trilogy was good, but shit. Overhyped much?

[BigDaddyCool]

Flair/HBK > MVP > Monty Brown > Chris Jericho > Most everything else > Sand in your eyes > Swift kick in the groin > Kennedy > Teddy Hart > Carlito

:shifty:

[Destor]

Nice list

[BigDaddyCool]

Rofl, no. Liger, Hart, Booker. Best matches of Benoits life. The MVP trilogy was good, but shit. Overhyped much?

I never say those matches, therefore I assume they suck. Also, I've never seen Liger wrestle, so I assume he is made up. Plus I hate Bret Hart.

[Destor]

You've never seen the best of 7 Booker/Benoit had in WCW? That shit is legendary.

[Mercury Bullet]

Flair/HBK > MVP > Monty Brown > Chris Jericho > Jushin Liger > Booker T > Most everything else > Sand in your eyes > Swift kick in the groin > Kennedy > Teddy Hart > Carlito

Liger and Booker are interchangeable.

[Destor]

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by MB
Flair/HBK > Vader >Jushin Liger > MVP > Monty Brown > Chris Jericho > Most everything else > Sand in your eyes > Swift kick in the groin > Kennedy > Teddy Hart > Carlito

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Destor]

YEAH

[Mercury Bullet]

You've never seen the best of 7 Booker/Benoit had in WCW? That shit is legendary.

:yes:
:y:

Some of the best stuff ever, IMO.

[BigDaddyCool]

You've never seen the best of 7 Booker/Benoit had in WCW? That shit is legendary.

I recall see a match or 2. I just was a dumb mark at the time and was WWF all the way for what that was worth. I don't recall any of it besides Booker's box hair cut and Benoit was wearing the tights with that wierd diamond gooch.

[BigDaddyCool]

Ok, here it is:

HBK/Flair > Taz > doesn't matter after Taz.

[IC Champion]

HBK/Flair > Taz > Doesn't matter after Taz.

[Kane Knight]

I'm really reticent to comment on this, because no doubt someone will try and simply peg me as wanting Jericho to fail, despite statements to the contrary.

But yeah, It's seemed pretty lackluster from the beginning, and it's already getting weaker. I was more interested in Jericho last week, and I don't care who you are, a slow start only works as an argument if things get better. Really, the high point so far has been his return, and even that seemed lackluster.

[JT]

I'm a HUGE Jericho mark! Have been since 1998 with him in WCW. Only man who I've owned 2 t-shirts for and even have been considering to buy the Save_Us.222 shirt. Can't say there is anyone I like more than him...but his return is lack lustered. :-\

It was driving to school today that I actually thought about this a little, and how much it annoys me that everyone has been taking the piss out of him since the return. I tried to think of a way to argue it out in my head...but couldn't. Most naysayers have been right about Jericho, but can't say he hasn't been trying.

His return to wrestling reminds me of Christian's coming to TNA. They came in trying too hard to be top dog, and looked quite dull and boring in the process. However, after awhile he got back on track and pretty much is back on the ball. I think that will be the same for Jericho, where he will eventually find his groove. As said by others, people like Ric Flair (and Shawn Michaels) are rare...can't really be compaired to that level. They have natural charisma, and while Jericho has some himself, a great deal of his mic skills I think is self trained and he'll probably have to start picking up on what the fans want to see before he changed the current path.

Also I have to blame WWE too for right now as well. Even before his return, people on this forum have been stating that a return right to the main event is stupid and I agree. Could have placed him in so many spots besides the World Championship. One for instance is Regal, current GM of Raw and long time nemesis of Chris Jericho. Restarting that feud could have been gold, and the whole save_us.222 thing could have been saving WWE from corporate or something. Or there is a number of people coming up like Morella who he could have had a program with. He didn't need to be rushed to the top...Jeff could have easily been plugged in there (I don't see him winning the title any time soon anyway, but the feud may have been nice for something before the Rumble).

[BigDaddyCool]

You know, maybe it is my fault. Maybe I was expecting to much too soon. I promise, as long as it isn't flat out god awful, next week I won't bitch and moan because Jericho isn't saving us yet.

[BigDaddyCool]

I'm a HUGE Jericho mark! Have been since 1998 with him in WCW. Only man who I've owned 2 t-shirts for and even have been considering to buy the Save_Us.222 shirt. Can't say there is anyone I like more than him...but his return is lack lustered. :-\

It was driving to school today that I actually thought about this a little, and how much it annoys me that everyone has been taking the piss out of him since the return. I tried to think of a way to argue it out in my head...but couldn't. Most naysayers have been right about Jericho, but can't say he hasn't been trying.

His return to wrestling reminds me of Christian's coming to TNA. They came in trying too hard to be top dog, and looked quite dull and boring in the process. However, after awhile he got back on track and pretty much is back on the ball. I think that will be the same for Jericho, where he will eventually find his groove. As said by others, people like Ric Flair (and Shawn Michaels) are rare...can't really be compaired to that level. They have natural charisma, and while Jericho has some himself, a great deal of his mic skills I think is self trained and he'll probably have to start picking up on what the fans want to see before he changed the current path.

Also I have to blame WWE too for right now as well. Even before his return, people on this forum have been stating that a return right to the main event is stupid and I agree. Could have placed him in so many spots besides the World Championship. One for instance is Regal, current GM of Raw and long time nemesis of Chris Jericho. Restarting that feud could have been gold, and the whole save_us.222 thing could have been saving WWE from corporate or something. Or there is a number of people coming up like Morella who he could have had a program with. He didn't need to be rushed to the top...Jeff could have easily been plugged in there (I don't see him winning the title any time soon anyway, but the feud may have been nice for something before the Rumble).

Jericho needed to stalk Randy longer or just shown up on Cyber Sunday and beat the shit out of Randy and taken the title there.

[SammyG]

I am enjoying his return.

[BigDaddyCool]

I've thought about it. There is a fairly simple thing they should have done which would have made the whole return better and not seemed slapped together.

When Orton asked what are you saving us from, Jericho shouldn't have said you, but instead said from wrestling itself or from yourselves or something to that effect. Then say he is starting by taking out Orton because Orton represents all that is wrong.

Because as of this moment, if Jericho wins the belt and beats Orton he is done, there is nothing more to save us from because he finished saving us from Orton. If Jericho loses then he will look like a impotent tool.

Now, if he did what I suggested, he would have options. If he loses to Orton, then he turns on the crowd saying they are the real problem and he could be his cockyself or something. Or he could say the problem is bigger than Orton, and it is the rules that play into Orton's favor and seek to change those and keep coming back. If Jericho using my method, that is just the first step. Sure he beat Orton, but the problem still exist and he could go about solving the problem with a pretty title around his waist.

It is something so fucking small and simple that would make this whole thing 20 times better.

[KYR]

it was poorly put together. You would think with all those video packages, he would come back and be the Sting of 97, but it's been shit. He gets put in mid card matches, his promos are decent, but nothing special and he's not even getting that big of pops as he should be. I don't know, he's nothing then your average upper mid card guy right now. He's showed he can be tremendous on the mic in the past, but i have yet to see it. Santino's promo against him was 10x better that Raw.

so to some it up, it's been very lackluster thus far.

Gotta agree with LC. After the huge build-up, his return has failed to grab the fans - that's gotta be WWE's fault. I still think it may turn into something good (or maybe I'm being too optimistic).

For me, it's not "Yay" or "Nay" (yet) so it has to be LC.