John Cena == The Rock

[Xero]

There is no difference. Both do good promos and both have about the same wrestling skills (Cena is slightly better in the ring). Both did "POOP"/"GAY" jokes a bit too often. The only difference is the writing - there's no difference between the men themselves.

Cena in Rock's position 10 years ago would have made no difference.

Discuss.

[The One]

Rock was electrifying. And that's not just a catchphrase, he brought a very exciting energy to the show. Cena does not.

The end.

[Kane Knight]

Disagree.

[Xero]

In fact, Cena > Rock.

Discuss.

[The One]

It didn't matter if you loved or hated Rocky. And if I do recall around 2000 TPWW was FULL of people who HATED The Rock and said he was nothing more than WWE produced shit that was shoveled down our throats. Except they still watched Rock matches, they still watched Rock promos, they still checked out Rock's appearances on SNL and in movies...people don't do that with John Cena. People turn off their TVs when John Cena is around. The Rock captivated audiences, Cena has never come close to that.

In terms of character, style of promo, hell even matches they might be comparable, but as far as bringing that magical X-Factor, Cena doesn't cut it.

[Kane Knight]

Devil's Advocate?

[Kane Knight]

It didn't matter if you loved or hated Rocky. And if I do recall around 2000 TPWW was FULL of people who HATED The Rock and said he was nothing more than WWE produced shit that was shoveled down our throats. Except they still watched Rock matches, they still watched Rock promos, they still checked out Rock's appearances on SNL and in movies...people don't do that with John Cena. People turn off their TVs when John Cena is around. The Rock captivated audiences, Cena has never come close to that.

In terms of character, style of promo, hell even matches they might be comparable, but as far as bringing that magical X-Factor, Cena doesn't cut it.

*raises hand*

I wasn't THAT extreme, but I was definitely in that grouping.

[Xero]

Sure he does. WWE just fucked him over. Had they turned him heel, left him that way for a few years and turned him back he would be BIGGER and BETTER than Rock.

Just because WWE pushed him too hard doesn't mean he doesn't have "it", it just means they've had too much of "it" the way they don't want "it".

Do you honestly think that if they left Rock in the same Rocky Maivia face role for a year or two longer that he would have gotten over like he did?

[Nark Order]

Nah, there's no comparison. Move on.

[Xero]

Nah, there's no comparison. Move on.

Yah, there is. Prove me wrong.

[Kane Knight]

Sure he does. WWE just fucked him over. Had they turned him heel, left him that way for a few years and turned him back he would be BIGGER and BETTER than Rock.

Just because WWE pushed him too hard doesn't mean he doesn't have "it", it just means they've had too much of "it" the way they don't want "it".

Do you honestly think that if they left Rock in the same Rocky Maivia face role for a year or two longer that he would have gotten over like he did?

Sure he has "it." I still disagree with him being interchangable with the Rock.

Could he be this era's equivalent? Sure, potentially.

[redoneja]

How Cena has been booked in the last 2 years or so reminds me more of Hogan in the mid to late 80's than Rock ten years ago.

[Nark Order]

Yah, there is. Prove me wrong.

No, I don't see any fit reason to. You know you are wrong and are bringing this up merely to spark conversation. There is no way in hell that you could ever think that Cena even holds a candle to the Rock. In the short time Rocky had as a professional, he became one of the best ever. He was shoved down our throats to make up for the lost time he wasn't on television. He was ready for his spot after a very short time. Cena has charisma, but is not and never will be even near the level of Dwayne Johnson. He was paulted to the top WAAAAY to soon and he can't handle it. Rocky COMMANDED audiences. They hung on his every word. Half of the audience hates Cena.

You know you are wrong and are trying to create an arguement where there isn't one. Stop being retarded.

[McLegend]

Fuck people who think The Rock isn't good in the ring.

Seriously

[Kane Knight]

How Cena has been booked in the last 2 years or so reminds me more of Hogan in the mid to late 80's than Rock ten years ago.That's really not what he's getting at, though.

And I get where he's coming from, I just don't agree.

[Nark Order]

Furthermore, I laughed at Rock's jokes most of the time. Cena has yet to say anything that I've laughed at that was meant to be funny.

[IC Champion]

Disagree.

[IC Champion]

In fact, Cena > Rock.

Discuss.

I hate you, and everything that you stand for.

[IC Champion]

Alls that I'm gonna say is Rock was way smarter than Cena could ever hope to be, and used a 1000 times more ring physcology.

[Jeritron]

LMAO at Cena being a better in ring performer. And I usually give Cena more credit than most.

The Rock can go, it's evident from his matches and many of the most gifted and respected in ring wrestlers of all time will testify to this.

[Kane Knight]

LMAO at Cena being a better in ring performer. And I usually give Cena more credit than most.

The Rock can go, it's evident from his matches and many of the most gifted and respected in ring wrestlers of all time will testify to this.

Cena's displayed a lot of ring skill. Just not post main event push.

[Jeritron]

Cena's displayed a lot of ring skill. Just not post main event push.


Yea, he also is very athletic and has gifts. He can hold his own in the ring, and doesn't usually get credit where it's due. However, I think it's no coincidence that his good matches in the past few years have only been with the likes of Shawn Michaels, Edge, and several others...I don't want to say he was completely carried, but I don't feel the quality of these matches were his doing.

[Funky Fly]

Cena's displayed a lot of ring skill. Just not post main event push.

Word. That's the whole point of watering something down to sell to the kiddies.

Rock captivated an audience that was primarily male 18-34. Cena captivates an audience comprised of chicks and kids. WWE is pushing him as a watered down cash cow, but at least his natural charisma shines through when given freedom to promo however he wants. He could be as almost as good as The Rock if he were treated like any other main eventer instead of being Hoganized. He's just too bland for his own good.

[Londoner]

lol...come the fuck on. The rock was entertaining, Cena is not. The difference is the rock was in it to entertain, cena only cares about whether he's the no.1 guy with the title or not.

[Funky Fly]

lol...come the fuck on. The rock was entertaining, Cena is not. The difference is the rock was in it to entertain, cena only cares about whether he's the no.1 guy with the title or not.

Cena can be entertaining. When he found his groove as a tweener and then as a face in 2003, man he was fucking awesome. They gayed it all up, tho to sell crap to kids and women.

[Jeritron]

lol...come the fuck on. The rock was entertaining, Cena is not. The difference is the rock was in it to entertain, cena only cares about whether he's the no.1 guy with the title or not.


Although I agree with the first part of your statement (Rock being entertaining and Cena not being) I don't know how much that's really worth since entertainment is a case to case thing.

Some people enjoy watching CSPAN book readings and that's why it's on, I do not.
More people enjoy Soccer worldwide than any other sport, I however am hardly interested.

But, even though I agree with you personally, that kinda isn't fair. Rock did entertain MORE people, including you and I. That's true. Based on measurements like ratings, buyrates, merchandise sales and obvious things like popularity and mainstream success.

As for the last part of that statement, come on now...:n: How do you know which each are in it for? Cenas given the title and pushed with it, how do you know that's all he cares about? And how do you know Rock was only in it to entertain? Where is he now?

[Kane Knight]

Yea, he also is very athletic and has gifts. He can hold his own in the ring, and doesn't usually get credit where it's due. However, I think it's no coincidence that his good matches in the past few years have only been with the likes of Shawn Michaels, Edge, and several others...I don't want to say he was completely carried, but I don't feel the quality of these matches were his doing.

Ever watch any of the Harry Potter movies?

(If so, I apologise up front)

The supporting cast in that series is comprised of a lot of well-known actors who have gone from great performances to chewing the scenery. I don't blame the actors, I blame the director.

Cena's an actor. He's beed told to play Superman. He's doing the best with a role he's given. This is why I get what Xero's saying, even though I disagree. Cena's wrestling to the desires of management.

[Jeritron]

I've only seen two of the Harry Potter movies an don't really follow them.

But I get what you're saying. Cena is definitely a talent, and his major failings over the past couple years are mainly to do with his job.

I say it quite often, it's not that I hate Cena it's that I hate the way he's booked. This, as you said, is the fault of the director (in this case Vince-creative). I agree Cena is just an actor doing his job.

I don't understand the hate directed towards him for holding the belt and not losing the matches. Do people honestly except the guy to refuse this? It's like asking someone to turn down the top position in their company and be content making a lower wage in a mid level position because they don't want dirty looks or lost respect from their watercooler buddies and the janitorial staff. Are they to blame for taking the job and doing it as best they can? Should they quit?

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm with KK here. I was never big on The Rock. In fact, I found him to be quite annoying. I didn't think he was funny (except for his occasional brilliant promo, like his one pre-Armageddon Hell in a Cell), and I never used to find him great in the ring.

John Cena is also a very gifted wrestler. I remember when he first debuted, everyone agreed that he was good enough in the ring, but he just had no personality. Then he got personality, and with his ring skills, got over. Then he lost both of them with his main event push.

And I think Xero may be playing Devil's Advocate here. If you're not, I apologise Xero. And also, before you ask people to prove you're wrong, you kind of have to prove you're right. You're working with a lot of "ifs" and "buts."

Going back and watching early John Cena videos, back from when everyone liked him, he just carried himself differently. His music wasn't annoying, he'd walk out to the ring looking like he didn't need to pose for the cameras, and damn it, the man just looked cool. He could really suck you into whatever he was doing. Now he storms out on stage like a kid throwing a temper tantrum, and I want to throw a brick through the screen.

The WWE needs to stop giving this guy notes, and instead let him return as a heel, and write his own promos. If I had things my way, Chris Jericho would be the WWE Champion, and you'd have a perfect feud for when he gets back. 2005: John Cena is WWE Champion, gets Jericho fired. Now in 2008, this man is holding his customised belt, and has taken his fans, and his spot. If he gets cheered for returning as a bitter cockweed, then roll with it. Have him win the WWE Championship as a bitter cockweed, and then have him feud with a heel bitter cockweed. Stone Cold Steve Austin and The Rock were basically characters that had their roots planted in heel personas, they just feuded with bad guys.

[BigDaddyCool]

In terms of character, style of promo, hell even matches they might be comparable, but as far as bringing that magical X-Factor, Cena doesn't cut it.

I miss X-Factor, sure they sucked but i still miss the lower kliq members.

[Tommy Gunn]

John Cena isn't bad at all, it was his superman push that made me hate him with a burning passion. Same reason I thought Bobby Lashley was alright, and then he got the superman push and demolished talent twice as good as him.

Before John got hurt, it was the only time I ever wanted Randy Orton to win a world title. Lesser of two evils.

[RVDmark]

The Rock was entertaining to watch (and still is, thanks Youtube) and the answer is so obvious.

The rock involved the crowd, end of story.
John Cena has similar qualities (The people's elbow = The 5 Knuckle Shuffle in terms of move stupidity) but Cena plays his promo's to the camera, rock played to the live audience. In my opinion, The Rock was the best heel I have watched as he could still be funny, he could still have a character and personality, but he wasn't annoying as a heel. He did heelish things, but still reacted to the crowd. Him telling people not to sing along with him, and calling them sheep, whilst he was a heel was IMO brilliance. His heel promos opposite the Hurricane were funny too.

I'm not saying JC can't be as good as The Rock was, but so far he hasn't come close.

[Londoner]

Jerittron...its just the impression i get, while i don't know for sure, its the impression he gives. So its his own fault for me thinking that really. I guess the fact that wwe changed his gimmick didn't help, but he doesn'tseem toc are aslong as he's the top guy.

[Xero]

I'll admit to playing devil's advocate here - come on, you know my dickish gimmick.

However, I honestly do feel that Cena is better in the ring. Sure, Rock played to the crowd more when in the ring, but Cena has a better ratio of playing to the crowd to good wrestling, thus having a more balanced Psychology style. Rock rarely had what I would call "good" matches. Cena, while it's true he's in the ring with people who can carry him, has more good matches on a monthly basis than Rock had on a yearly basis.

Rock was all show. Cena is more balanced and rounded, even in his current gimmick.

[NoRoolz]

I miss X-Factor, sure they sucked but i still miss the lower kliq members.

And their theme-music :love:

[Kane Knight]

I'll admit to playing devil's advocate here - come on, you know my dickish gimmick.

However, I honestly do feel that Cena is better in the ring. Sure, Rock played to the crowd more when in the ring, but Cena has a better ratio of playing to the crowd to good wrestling, thus having a more balanced Psychology style. Rock rarely had what I would call "good" matches. Cena, while it's true he's in the ring with people who can carry him, has more good matches on a monthly basis than Rock had on a yearly basis.

Rock was all show. Cena is more balanced and rounded, even in his current gimmick.I agree with you on many points. Right up until the "even in his current gimmick." Even Rock's "stale" moveset got a reaction, for example, and comparably, it felt fresher, even to someone who complained that it was stale. The Rock was better paced, disaplyed psychology much better, and so on. And while I think a lot of that has to do with the direction WWE has given him, it doesn't change that Cena's worse currently, at the very least.

Cena's better overall in ring, but as far as his character goes...NO.

[The One]

And their theme-music :love:

YO you dealin' with the X-Facta!!!

[Heyman]

Am I missing something here?!?!?! :wtf:

The Rock was much better than Cena in the ring. :wtf::wtf:

The Rock also has more charisma in the left nut than Cena has as a whole. :wtf:

Sorry guys - but I honestly have no idea what people are going on about here.

While I do think that Cena is an amazing character (one of which is being mis-used by the WWE and one of which is sorely missed right now), he is NOT The Rock. The Rock has Cena beat in every category as far as I'm concerned (except maybe overall physical strength).

[Nark Order]

Where is this 'Rocky was bad in-ring' stuff coming from? I'm constantly watching old tapes and DVDs and never once do I remember thinking to myself that Rock needed to better his in-ring work. Sometimes he was a little slow paced at worst but alot of that, at least in my opinion, had to do with his character. It just seemed like he was so full of himself that he knew he could take his time because he was going to win anyway. Also, Rock is one of the best 'sellers' I've ever seen. He could make anybody look legitimate and any make any move look like death. To this day, Rocky still wins for best Stunner, Gore, and F5 reactions.

Could somebody elaborate please as to why they think Rock needed work in the ring?

[Fox]

The Rock built a legacy over a very short period of time.

He was the youngest man to ever win the WWF Championship when he won it.

He was part of the Corporation's plan to keep Stone Cold away from the belt throughout the attitude era.

He had several classic matches with Mankind/Mick Foley that will go down in history.

He had some of the greatest matches in Mania history with Steve Austin and Hulk Hogan.

His promos brought people to their feet every single night, in and out, whether he was a face or a heel. The people sang along with him every night.

He holds the co-record with Foley for the highest rated segment in RAW history.

He helped mold the careers of Chris Jericho, Kurt Angle, and Brock Lesnar.

He's the first guy to leave wrestling for Hollywood, become successful, and he might be the first guy to be able to retire from pro wrestling, and actually, truly mean it.


John Cena can't hold a fucking candle to those accolades. Everything he's earned since WrestleMania 21 going forward has had a force-fed feel to it. He hasn't had a SINGLE classic match in his career. His match with HBK on RAW was good, but nowhere near the level of something like Rock vs. Jericho at No Mercy 2001 (and that's one of Rock's least important matches).

His Mania encounters with Big Show, JBL, Triple H and HBK will go down in history the same way that Macho Man vs. DiBiase or Sid Justice vs. Hogan will go down in history; as information, but not as emotion. Not the way that Rock/Austin at Manias 15 and 17 will go down as emotional, pivotal matches in their careers and in the history of the WWE as a whole. Cena hasn't created that kind of emotion.

The fans don't sing along with John Cena. They mock his "chain gang" mentality bullshit. They boo his Marine-style antics. The only people who yell "COME GET SOME" and "THE CHAMP IS HERRRE" with him are little boys who don't know any better.

John Cena does not equal The Rock. Not even close. Not ever.

[Nark Order]

Fox, you're going a little overboard. Cena has had plenty of good matches. All of his Wrestlemania main events have been classic, his fued with Edge had some golden moments, and his fued with JBL is one of my favorite Smackdown fueds ever. He isn't a bad wrestler by any means. Comparing him to Dwayne Johnson is just a bit silly though.

[FakeLaser]

The Rock is about a billion times better than John Cena.

*dives back to casual*

[Fox]

Fox, you're going a little overboard. Cena has had plenty of good matches. All of his Wrestlemania main events have been classic, his fued with Edge had some golden moments, and his fued with JBL is one of my favorite Smackdown fueds ever. He isn't a bad wrestler by any means. Comparing him to Dwayne Johnson is just a bit silly though.

Tell me, what is John Cena's best match to date? In fact, name me four John Cena matches that were even good.

Cena vs. JBL was NOT a classic. It was like 6-7 minutes long and it was a slow, drawn out brawl that ended anticlimactically. His matches against Triple H and Shawn Michaels were good, but not great. Like I said, they'll go down in history the same way that Hogan vs. Sid Justice and Macho vs. DiBiase will go down in history; as good matches that just happened to take place on the grandest stage of the year, but nothing special.

I'm not saying that Cena isn't a good wrestler, I'm saying that he hasn't had anywhere close to the feuds, moments, matches, or promos that The Rock had during his time on top, and honestly, I don't think that John Cena ever will.

[Nark Order]

I dunno, the last two Wrestlemanias with Cena in the main event have been fairly epic. You ride them off so easily like they weren't anything special. I don't remember the last time I got that worked up over a main event like that. Me and all of my friends were GLUED to the screen, awaiting the downfall of Cena. WWE really painted a picture going in to those matches. Both of them kinda had a 'Superman vs Godzilla' feel to them. You knew either guy could win at any second. Every time Cena locked in the STFU, we absolutely flipped the fuck out, literally screaming at the TV for either Trips or Michaels to get out. Both of them were very good matches.

Also, Edge vs Cena in TLC was brilliant.

[Jeritron]

I dunno, the last two Wrestlemanias with Cena in the main event have been fairly epic. You ride them off so easily like they weren't anything special. I don't remember the last time I got that worked up over a main event like that. Me and all of my friends were GLUED to the screen, awaiting the downfall of Cena. WWE really painted a picture going in to those matches. Both of them kinda had a 'Superman vs Godzilla' feel to them. You knew either guy could win at any second. Every time Cena locked in the STFU, we absolutely flipped the fuck out, literally screaming at the TV for either Trips or Michaels to get out. Both of them were very good matches.

Also, Edge vs Cena in TLC was brilliant.

You know, you're right about all 3 of those matches. The only problem is, he wins them all. And all of the other ones.

[Nark Order]

From what I hear he won over 100 matches in 2007 alone or something. Chances are if I name one of his matches, he won it.

[Jeritron]

If HHH didn't tear his quad it would have been a rematch with HHH winning at WM23.

[The MAC]

did the rock ever hav a belt that spins? I dont think so!

(P.S Cena is not fit to even smell the rocks shit let alone be compared to him)

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'll admit to playing devil's advocate here - come on, you know my dickish gimmick.

However, I honestly do feel that Cena is better in the ring. Sure, Rock played to the crowd more when in the ring, but Cena has a better ratio of playing to the crowd to good wrestling, thus having a more balanced Psychology style. Rock rarely had what I would call "good" matches. Cena, while it's true he's in the ring with people who can carry him, has more good matches on a monthly basis than Rock had on a yearly basis.

Rock was all show. Cena is more balanced and rounded, even in his current gimmick.

I agree that John Cena is actually more capable in the ring. Cena can do the whole technical thing, as his early stint on SmackDown! proved. The Rock was never an amazing wrestler. Under his current gimmick? John Cena's current matches are boring. Even the ones people call "good" fail to get me involved, because his style is just so artificial. He's wrestling a style that is not him, and as any performer will tell you, there needs to be at least some kind of honesty in art for it to connect with people. The Rock was a much more organic performer. He also has a lot more great matches to his name.

Another thing which RVDmark brought to my intention, was how The Rock involved the crowd. It's a point that seems pretty fucking obvious, because The Rock was over, worked the mic a lot, and all that, but when I really think about it, that's something The Rock holds over Cena. What Cena should be doing is playing off the crowds, but he can't do that, because his character is so disliked that it's impossible for him to play off the crowds effectively without being a heel. Sure, he would occasionally semi-address his boos, but he never really did it flat-out. It always felt like there were strings above him, and that he was not allowed to really approach confronting the fans about it.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I dunno, the last two Wrestlemanias with Cena in the main event have been fairly epic. You ride them off so easily like they weren't anything special. I don't remember the last time I got that worked up over a main event like that. Me and all of my friends were GLUED to the screen, awaiting the downfall of Cena. WWE really painted a picture going in to those matches. Both of them kinda had a 'Superman vs Godzilla' feel to them. You knew either guy could win at any second. Every time Cena locked in the STFU, we absolutely flipped the fuck out, literally screaming at the TV for either Trips or Michaels to get out. Both of them were very good matches.

Also, Edge vs Cena in TLC was brilliant.

You see, I really disagree with this. No offence, but Cena was obviously going to win all his WrestleMania matches. I would have honestly bet my house on it.

The matches themselves were not that great, either. I can't remember anything that happened from them. I know John Cena no-sold HBK's leg work at the end of their bout, or something of the like, though. I also know that the fans wanted to see Cena's blood, which is a reaction I am getting sick of. Any reaction is a good reaction? Bullshit. John Cena matches are becoming all about how he's meant to be getting cheered, but instead people hate him.

I enjoyed the TLC Match, but that was because of Edge. It was a fucking stupid move to not have Edge win that match. I will admit that Cena kind of looked cool for a second, when he FU'd Edge off the ladder and through the tables, and then shook his head, regretting that it had to come to that, and realising that he had definitely won the match. Apart from that, the match was once again about the "bad guy" getting cheered over Cena. Edge also made that match. Cena took one cool bump, and that's about it.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If HHH didn't tear his quad it would have been a rematch with HHH winning at WM23.

I disagree. In fact, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if the WWE put John Cena in a match against The Undertaker at WrestleMania, Cena would win. In fact, I'm half-expecting Cena to end Taker's streak at WrestleMania XXV.

Cena is probably going to get a streak up and going. I mean, the guy is currently 4-0, and I can't see anyone on the WWE roster who is in their prime enough, and seen as important enough to the WWE to interrupt that.

[Kane Knight]

I disagree. In fact, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if the WWE put John Cena in a match against The Undertaker at WrestleMania, Cena would win. In fact, I'm half-expecting Cena to end Taker's streak at WrestleMania XXV.

Sadly, he's probably right.

I may be thinking it for different reasons, but it seems like a logical progression since they're trying to put him over big.

Of course, ending Taker's streak seems like a WWE booking "logical" choice for helping him win back the fans.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Sadly, he's probably right.

I may be thinking it for different reasons, but it seems like a logical progression since they're trying to put him over big.

Of course, ending Taker's streak seems like a WWE booking "logical" choice for helping him win back the fans.

That's exactly it. They'll think that putting him over The Undertaker at WrestleMania will put him on that Hall of Fame level, as if holding the WWE Championship longer than any modern wrestler does not accomplish that.

To be fair, though, I would be pulling for John Cena in that match. Fuck, I hate The Undertaker. Half his WrestleMania wins are against people who didn't stand a chance against him, anyway.

[Funky Fly]

Cena's matches against The Undertake black when he was a heel were pretty good, tbh.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Cena's matches against The Undertake black when he was a heel were pretty good, tbh.

Both are different characters now, though. Cena would try and "brawl" with The Undertaker, and Taker would pretend he is scary in a leotard.

[RVDmark]

The other thing I just realised is that back in the attitude era the performers looked like they were having a good time. Think back to the funny moments such as Foley / Rock "This is your life", the time when rock dropped his glasses, the performers had to stop themselves laughing, even the heels.
These days most performers just go through the motions and walk back through the curtain.
The closest I have seen to that recently was during the Trips / Steph segment last week on Raw, and Jericho's smile when he returned, which showed he really was getting a bit of a buzz to be back. The same could be said of RVD last week, also Trish and Lita. Again guys (and girls) from the attitude era.

The other thing is that most segments never advance the storyline or get anything done anymore. Someone coming out at the beginning of raw simply means that the segment will set up the main event for that night, which is usually some tag match I have no care for seeing. It doesn't further the storyline. I know WWE isn't meant to be highbrow drama or anythingt, but I'm sure even children could handle a more entwined storyline. And god forbid two fueds or storylines should ever interact.

[RVDmark]

And if Edge doesn't end Taker's streak (if anyone does) we riot.