How can WWE blame Jericho for not being "over"

[Jordan]

Take a look at RVD's return and Jericho's, the answerer is obvious, by the time Jericho debuted nobody was surprised because everybody knew, fucking idiots.

[Crossrine]

It's because of his new haircut :foc:..... :'(

[Innovator]

They waited 3 weeks too long

[The MAC]

they should have done it like a shoot the way they did Matt Hardy.

The problem with Jericho,except for that lesbian hairdo, is that he seems to be the same upper-mid carder that we were used to. They should have developed his character with a more edgier atitude and less gay clothing. The promo he cut on his return was so weak compared to his other stuff.

Jericho seems like he is just back to cash in. RVD will be back doing the very same thing in s months time.

[Dave Youell]

They should of brought him back like crow sting,

But then again I think anyone coming back should be brought back like crow sting

Jeff Hardy for instance would of made a great crow sting

You know who else would make a good crow sting? Sting, I think he'd be good.

[Jordan]

lol wtf

[BigDaddyCool]

Jericho is completely overhyped by the internet.

[redoneja]

Maybe because really isn't as great as some people think.

[Jordan]

Say it ain't so! Have I been tricked?

[Theo Dious]

Jericho is completely overhyped by the internet.

I agree, which is sad because I do like him.

[Jeritron]

Jericho is completely overhyped by the internet.

Not really...he was over as fuck in a time where Austin and Rock were in their prime.
I'll admit, smarks love him but a lot has been done wrong with him.
Right now, it's a combination of him being rusty/not exciting, and bad handling of it.
His comeback was supposed to be important, and though done excellently off the bat, was important for about 10 minutes. He was just another guy the next monday.

[The Heenan Family]

The WWE made a huge mistake putting him in a program with Orton right away. He should've saved us from HHH or HBK saying that they're time is over blah blah blah, face one of them at WM, then a heel Y2J would've made for a super face turn after WM 24 when Cena returns spouting off at the mouth about how he never lost the title, then Y2J could've saved us from the same old ending........Cena wins.

[Xero]

Even if they did it like that RVD spot and he got the monster pop, he'd still lose steam and be getting the same responses he's getting now in about a month.

In fact, if that Van Dam spot was an actual return I think it would have happened pretty much the same for him.

[JT]

Actually, what would have been good (IMO) would have been to take the same Jericho character, and have him feud with the guys in charge like Regal or maybe even Vince if done right. I think his current character would have been fine for pissing them off on a constant basis, while someone else feuded for the World Championship (either continuing HBK or trying out Jeff Hardy).

I agree with him entering the World title scene, and was against even before his premeire.

[Fox]

Jericho got screwed because they didn't treat him like a star upon his return.

When Triple H returned in 2002, there was this big fucking war between Bischoff and Stephanie to get HHH on RAW or Smackdown. In other words, they made a big deal out of it.

Now, I'm not saying they should have gone to those lengths for Jericho, but they could have done better than "Who the hell are you?" followed by a match with Santino Marella.

[Kane Knight]

If everyone knew he was coming back, shouldn't he be more over?

Smark logic seems counterintuitive.

[BigDaddyCool]

Not really...he was over as fuck in a time where Austin and Rock were in their prime.
I'll admit, smarks love him but a lot has been done wrong with him.
Right now, it's a combination of him being rusty/not exciting, and bad handling of it.
His comeback was supposed to be important, and though done excellently off the bat, was important for about 10 minutes. He was just another guy the next monday.

Everyone was super over back then because wrestling was super over back then.

Quit making exuses. Jericho is just another guy.

[Kane Knight]

Everyone was super over back then because wrestling was super over back then.

Quit making exuses. Jericho is just another guy.Jerico's better than the average wrestler, and in fact, he's quite good. But you are right. Both in in that he was super over because wrestling was super over and that people are making excuses.

[Gerard]

Yet again wwe took a big name comeback and dragged it out to the extent that people got bored of the waiting. Then again hardly suprising coming from a company that managed to fuck up simple concepts like the wcw invasion, and the nwo angle that was on life support after a month or so.

[BigDaddyCool]

Jerico's better than the average wrestler, and in fact, he's quite good. But you are right. Both in in that he was super over because wrestling was super over and that people are making excuses.

He is a good grappler, but he gets a lot of over hyping.

[Kane Knight]

Yet again wwe took a big name comeback and dragged it out to the extent that people got bored of the waiting. Then again hardly suprising coming from a company that managed to fuck up simple concepts like the wcw invasion, and the nwo angle that was on life support after a month or so.

God, it's not like this angle was horribly long. It ran for like a month.

He is a good grappler, but he gets a lot of over hyping.

Yeah, pretty much anyone who is liked by the IWC gets hyped at least a notch or two more than they probably deserve.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Jericho is completely overhyped by the internet.

Over-hyped how? In terms of wrestling ability? Jericho is probably the best guy they've got. A case could be made for HBK, but beyond that you are stretching it.

Jericho is pretty popular, too. During the Attitude era, he was the guy behind The Rock and Stone Cold Steve Austin in terms of popularity and reactions. The WWE have traditionally just been shit when pushing him to the top. Take his Undisputed Championship reign, for example.

I think the biggest subtractor from Jericho's success, is that the current audiences for WWE shows are John Cena fans. The WWE's shit over the last year has definitely had an impact on crowds, and they are generally softer, and less smarky than they once were. The last time these fans saw Jericho, he was a bad guy who got fired begging to keep his job. The current fans are stupid, but they're not stupid enough to see this guy they were told by the WWE to see as a joke and cheer him right away like he's Stone Cold.

What the WWE needs to do is improve the quality of their entire shows, get some of their old fans back (which Jericho would help with), and push the right guys to the top. That means Shawn Michaels and Chris Jericho over Bobby Lashley and John Cena, at this point in time.

[Londoner]

I think the biggest subtractor from Jericho's success, is that the current audiences for WWE shows are John Cena fans.

Thank you alienoid, you just hit the nail on the head right there. that is the biggest reason why the crowd reactions for jericho have been shit.

[Kane Knight]

Thank you alienoid, you just hit the nail on the head right there. that is the biggest reason why the crowd reactions for jericho have been shit.

Come now. You're just making excuses.

[Londoner]

No,just pointing out the reasons.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Come now. You're just making excuses.

Excuses are excuses, but that doesn't mean they aren't valid. You could just say "Jericho's return has not been as fiery as expected," or you could say "Jericho's return has not been as fiery as expected because". There is no harm in speculating.

[Kane Knight]

No,just pointing out the reasons.

I was with you until the word "reasons."

The answer really isn't reasonable, so I kind of have trouble seeing it as a "reason" so much as reaching for bogus justification. I have trouble buying this notion of it being an issue of Cena's fans, given the reality of the crowd's responses to Cena.

Not to mention the fact that the crowds still get hot for certain people.

Sorry, but this is something you can pretty much debunk by reasoning through empirically.

But believe what you want.

[El Fangel]

Yeah, pretty much anyone who is liked by the IWC gets hyped at least a notch or two more than they probably deserve.

Hand must have slipped on the knob for Punk.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I was with you until the word "reasons."

The answer really isn't reasonable, so I kind of have trouble seeing it as a "reason" so much as reaching for bogus justification. I have trouble buying this notion of it being an issue of Cena's fans, given the reality of the crowd's responses to Cena.

Not to mention the fact that the crowds still get hot for certain people.

Sorry, but this is something you can pretty much debunk by reasoning through empirically.

But believe what you want.

The reality of the crowd's responses to Cena is that the boos died down considerably for a long time. I took this as a sign people had just had enough, and had given up trying to voice themselves.

The heat against Cena did come back, but never to the point where we was truly booed out of the building on a consistent basis. There were still boos for Cena, but I can guarantee that these boos for Cena are also cheers for Jericho (as they were in 2005).

As for other guys getting pops, this is true, but no one really gets them huge anymore. Jeff Hardy still gets the same pops he got in 2001, but in comparison they seem so much bigger. In fact, if anything, I am willing to bet that they are smaller.

There are some pops that are confusing. For example, Lita got a bigger pop than Trish Stratus at the RAW XV show. Steve Blackman also got a mystery pop. Jericho has been getting good pops since returning, though. He consistently gets "Y-2-J" chants, and the crowd always pops on cue for him. They're just smaller, quieter crowds in general.

I also maintain that the last time Jericho was seen, he was on his knees begging Eric Bischoff not to fire him is no help to Jericho's cause. Yeah, Lita got a pop, even though in her last appearance, her dildos were being auctioned off. But Jericho has also been getting pops, too. The WWE seems to have literally expecting Jericho to have been a saviour, which is stupid. People just want a good wrestler who is capable of entertaining on his worst day back.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If everyone knew he was coming back, shouldn't he be more over?

Smark logic seems counterintuitive.

Yes, and no. Yes: People should have known, and been able to prepare and tune in for Jericho's return. No: You underestimate the effect of a good surprise. No one expected Rob Van Dam to answer Santino Marella's open challenge, so when his music hit, people would have just kicked it into mark mode.

[Kane Knight]

Yes, and no. Yes: People should have known, and been able to prepare and tune in for Jericho's return. No: You underestimate the effect of a good surprise. No one expected Rob Van Dam to answer Santino Marella's open challenge, so when his music hit, people would have just kicked it into mark mode.

Which works for one week.

Coincidentally, the only real reaction Jericho got was week one.

Hmmmm....

[Kane Knight]

Also, if Raw taught us anything, if there's one lesson we should pull from it, it's that on a return, a lot of people will get a decent pop, if only for one night.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Which works for one week.

Coincidentally, the only real reaction Jericho got was week one.

Hmmmm....

What? Jericho's return was planned, how does a surprise return being effective for one week apply to him? Unless your point is that in the end planned and surprise returns work out the same, to which I say, congrat-u-fucking-lations. Combine that with the shitty WWE climate, and you have yourself TL and my point exactly.

[Anybody Thrilla]

If Jericho had Ralphus, he'd probably be way more over.

[FourFifty]

It's all a part of Vince's plan to fuck with us. Think about it!

Ya know the kid that was running the torch to Orton the night Jericho came back? Some teenage internet smark? Vince did it to spite the internet. That kid wasn't the torch runner for Randy Orton. He was a symbol for our hopes for Jericho.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If Jericho had Ralphus, he'd probably be way more over.

I still maintain that Jericho needs to bring in Johnny Jeter as his apprentice. Jeter reminds me so much of Jericho in his movements inside the ring, it is not funny.

[Chavo Classic]

I think the biggest subtractor from Jericho's success, is that the current audiences for WWE shows are John Cena fans. The WWE's shit over the last year has definitely had an impact on crowds, and they are generally softer, and less smarky than they once were.

I think the problem here is not that the crowds are idiots for not appreciating Jericho, but Jericho an idiot for not reading the crowd.

He's been gone for over 2 years, and the crowd for one reason or another have changed. Whether that's a physical change or a change in mentality, Jericho should have realised in the weeks before, or at least in the few weeks since he came back, that he'd need to either crank it up a notch or evovle completely.

The same catchphrases and promos might not get him over as before. Granted he's changed his finisher from the boston crab into a move that looks like he's getting dumped on his ass, but that's not enough.

If Jericho fails to get over, it's not because the crowd are stupid, it's because Jericho and the creative team haven't recognised that average fan is different and given things a stir to meet the new demands of the audience.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think the problem here is not that the crowds are idiots for not appreciating Jericho, but Jericho an idiot for not reading the crowd.

He's been gone for over 2 years, and the crowd for one reason or another have changed. Whether that's a physical change or a change in mentality, Jericho should have realised in the weeks before, or at least in the few weeks since he came back, that he'd need to either crank it up a notch or evovle completely.

The same catchphrases and promos might not get him over as before. Granted he's changed his finisher from the boston crab into a move that looks like he's getting dumped on his ass, but that's not enough.

If Jericho fails to get over, it's not because the crowd are stupid, it's because Jericho and the creative team haven't recognised that average fan is different and given things a stir to meet the new demands of the audience.

There is a lot of truth to that, but to be perfectly honest, I think Jericho has been pretty damn good on the mic since returning. You don't know how much control he has over what he says either. Jericho has said everything he has said as well as it could be said, so I think the man deserves some props for that.

I am craving another classic Jericho promo, but a lot of those require someone worthy of Jericho to play off. Personally, I'd give Jericho an open mic to make fun of Jeff Hardy, Triple H and Shawn Michaels tomorrow night on RAW. I'm personally hoping for a segment where Triple H confronts Jeff Hardy, and tells him his win was a fluke, and that it should be The Game getting a title shot at the Rumble. Then HBK comes out and says it should be him, because he defeated Mr. Kennedy. Then Jericho can come out and shoot on them all.

[RVDmark]

Yet again wwe took a big name comeback and dragged it out to the extent that people got bored of the waiting. Then again hardly suprising coming from a company that managed to fuck up simple concepts like the wcw invasion, and the nwo angle that was on life support after a month or so.

To be fair the NWO thing got fucked up by Hall and Nash, see Scott Hall's current antics.

[RVDmark]

There is a lot of truth to that, but to be perfectly honest, I think Jericho has been pretty damn good on the mic since returning. You don't know how much control he has over what he says either. Jericho has said everything he has said as well as it could be said, so I think the man deserves some props for that.

Agreed, I don't see Jericho as a "me, want, title, match" kind of guy. I'm positive that that was "creative's" idea.

[Kane Knight]

What? Jericho's return was planned, how does a surprise return being effective for one week apply to him? Unless your point is that in the end planned and surprise returns work out the same, to which I say, congrat-u-fucking-lations. Combine that with the shitty WWE climate, and you have yourself TL and my point exactly.

It's cute that you're trying to combine the two arguments, really. But the argument that brought you to this point seems to contradict the argument you offered up that TL was agreeing with. That discrepancy is curious, to say the least.

The problem being, it doesn't just apply to the current environment, so "That was our point" is flawed at best, or flat out wrong at worst. I'm not sure why you would think that equating the two lends itself to "Well, this is because the Audience is full of Cena fans," but no.

[Savio]

I dunno whats worse Jericho or his Haircut.

[RVDmark]

Even as a fan I have to say his haircut makes him look, well, gay.

[Kane Knight]

Even as a fan I have to say his haircut makes him look, well, gay.

As opposed to when he first debuted. That was such a manly style.

[Chavo Classic]

Arguing which haircut in wrestling is the gayest is... kinda gay.

[Fox]

His haircut worked when he first debuted because he was a heel.

This new haircut is meant to be "cool," but it's more "gay," which in turn equals "not cool" to fans of RAW. The glittery queer vests only reinforce it.

[Chavo Classic]

Fox is gay

[BigDaddyCool]

This thread continues to prove that Jericho is completely over hyped by the IWC. And that the IWC refuses to see Jericho for what he is. A decent (not even a great, but just a decent) grappler that when paired up with other guys that can cut a promo looks golden. He is good, he is not great. And as of late, he isn't even good.

[Innovator]

Walls of Jericho was pretty over last night

[BigDaddyCool]

Walls of Jericho was pretty over last night

I don't care if he was over last night, he wasn't over enough the preceeding weeks to make me want to pay to see him last night.

[Kane Knight]

This thread continues to prove that Jericho is completely over hyped by the IWC. And that the IWC refuses to see Jericho for what he is. A decent (not even a great, but just a decent) grappler that when paired up with other guys that can cut a promo looks golden. He is good, he is not great. And as of late, he isn't even good.

I think it's quite indicative of the IWC going as far as they can to justify their personal favorites, but I don't think that's any different than anyone else.

Walls of Jericho was pretty over last night

Isn't Pittsburgh considered a "smark" city?

[Innovator]

Isn't Pittsburgh considered a "smark" city?
Actually it's considered a quiet city, usually a reserved crowd...especially when the Steelers lose that day.

[Theo Dious]

Isn't Pittsburgh considered a "smark" city?

The crowds tend to be comprised of smarks, yeah. Wrestling is big shit around here for reasons I can never understand.

[Theo Dious]

Actually it's considered a quiet city, usually a reserved crowd...especially when the Steelers lose that day.

Oh yeah, bring THAT up. :rant::mad::rant:

[Kane Knight]

The crowds tend to be comprised of smarks, yeah. Wrestling is big shit around here for reasons I can never understand.

Could be something in the water. Maybe WWE spiked PA's supply, since Philly's huge on the game too.

Anyway, yeah. Jericho's move was over in a "Smark" city.

I don't even think I need to explain how insignificant getting a smark darling over with a smark crowd in one city is (especially with his total lack of response of late in other cities). If anyone does need it explained, just raise your hands, and I'll cover it.

[BigDaddyCool]

Also, did Jericho get the pop, or was it the walls of jericho that got the pop?

[Innovator]

Jericho got a pop, but the Walls got the loudest thing in the night

[Kane Knight]

Also, was it the Walls, or just that lazy Boston Crab? ;)

[BigDaddyCool]

Hmm, if it is the move getting the loudest pop, it isn't even Jericho. I don't see how anyone can still live in the fantasy world were it isn't at least partly Jericho's fault for not being over.

[HaTeR]

I like Jericho, but yeah, his character could use more change than just his hairstyle.

[RVDmark]

As opposed to when he first debuted. That was such a manly style.

And what is gay about long hair in a ponytail?

[Kane Knight]

And what is gay about long hair in a ponytail?

I've never seen any guy other than a few random fags impersonating the spice girls wearing a ponytail the way he did.

Maybe things are different over in the UK, but here, that style is worn by women and the occasional San Fransisco feller.

[.44 Magdalene]

He's also had pigtails before.


Please, let's put the hairstyle in perspective.

[Kane Knight]

Hmm, if it is the move getting the loudest pop, it isn't even Jericho. I don't see how anyone can still live in the fantasy world were it isn't at least partly Jericho's fault for not being over.
Everything is always 100% WWE's fault.

No, but seriously, at this point, it's hard to not jump to blaming WWE for everything. I mean, I understand it. They've fucked up so damn much, that it's easy to say everything's their fault. And to some extent, this is, too. It's not saying that Jericho isn't phoning it in, or that he's as electrifying as last time, but damn, it's easy to just say "Well, WWE...."

In other words, I can see why people would blame WWE exclusively or otherwise.

[Kane Knight]

He's also had pigtails before.


Please, let's put the hairstyle in perspective.

Yeah, he's no worse now than before. Really.

[BigDaddyCool]

Everything is always 100% WWE's fault.

No, but seriously, at this point, it's hard to not jump to blaming WWE for everything. I mean, I understand it. They've fucked up so damn much, that it's easy to say everything's their fault. And to some extent, this is, too. It's not saying that Jericho isn't phoning it in, or that he's as electrifying as last time, but damn, it's easy to just say "Well, WWE...."

In other words, I can see why people would blame WWE exclusively or otherwise.

I know I'm going to get flamed. But he wasn't all that electrifying last time. I already know what is going to happen. People are going to say there was such a buzz when he was the first Undisputed champion. And beat the Rock and Stone Cold in a single night. I would just like to point out. Rock made Billy Gunn entertaining when fueding with Billy. Also no one ever goes over Stone Cold. So I'm not saying Jericho didn't play his part that night, but I'm pretty sure anyone would have looked good if it happened to them instead of Jericho that night.

[Kane Knight]

Yeah, and everyone was over at that point. Almost literally.

[BigDaddyCool]

Everyone but X-Pac.

[Kane Knight]

Pretty much. And at some point, you have to accept that a portion of his reaction, at least, belongs to the era itself. It's not that Jericho can't get over, though.

[BigDaddyCool]

That is my point. Jericho is a compent wrestler, or at least was. He has some charisma and boardlines on greatness sometimes. But on the whole, completely overrated by the IWC.

[Jeritron]

That is my point. Jericho is a compent wrestler, or at least was. He has some charisma and boardlines on greatness sometimes. But on the whole, completely overrated by the IWC.


Wrestling is completely overrated by the IWC

[Kane Knight]

Wrestling is completely overrated by the IWC

I'm pretty sure nobody in the IWC actually likes wrestling.

[Jeritron]

well played sir. touche'

[BigDaddyCool]

Anyhow, Jericho was rushed. They should have brought him in, built him up and having him earn a title shot instead of just showing up with one.

[Jeritron]

Anyhow, Jericho was rushed. They should have brought him in, built him up and having him earn a title shot instead of just showing up with one.

I agree with that. But maybe their plans weren't for that, but just to give him a title shot off the bat and then segway him into the uppermidcard with a lot of momentum.
Perhaps, they never intended to give him the big steady build to great things and a Rumble/Mania title win.
Perhaps, YOU'RE overrating him in saying that's how it should have gone?

[Kane Knight]

Perhaps, YOU'RE overrating him in saying that's how it should have gone?

Is overrating really the right word here?

[Jeritron]

I do agree maybe too much expecation is placed upon him. I don't however feel he is overrated. I mean, his charisma in ring skills and level of talent are what they are.

I think everyone is dissapointed when he's not being pushed to the moon and owning the crowd like he was when he first came to WWF.
Unfortunately, that ship sailed and this was probably seen by many as a second chance, and it didn't work out.

I don't think it means he's overrated, I just think it means a lot of fans are dissapointed he never became the top guy and frustrated with the fact that he could have been.
Even a depushed, dissapointing Jericho will still have a home on Raws uppermidcard every week, with potential to be called back up to the main event at any moment.

[BigDaddyCool]

Not being able to live up to hype, is pretty much overrating.

[Kane Knight]

Not being able to live up to hype, is pretty much overrating.

Indeed.

[Jeritron]

And the IWC is responsible for the push right? They overrated him and as a result he couldn't live up to the hype?
You have me lost.

[RVDmark]

I've never seen any guy other than a few random fags impersonating the spice girls wearing a ponytail the way he did.

Maybe things are different over in the UK, but here, that style is worn by women and the occasional San Fransisco feller.

I'm pretty sure its considered gay over here too.

[BigDaddyCool]

Sometimes a vocal minority can influnce the majority...look at those filthy hippies during the 60's.

[RVDmark]

How can WWE blame Jericho for not being "over"

Jericho: You wanted to see me.
Vince: Its all your fault that you're not pulling the crowds in.
Jericho: Huh

Thats how. :)

[RVDmark]

Sometimes a vocal minority can influnce the majority...look at those filth hippies during the 60's.

ROFL.

[Kane Knight]

And the IWC is responsible for the push right? They overrated him and as a result he couldn't live up to the hype?
You have me lost.

What part has you lost, really? And why does the IWC have to be responsible for his push?

[Kane Knight]

Sometimes a vocal minority can influnce the majority...look at those filthy hippies during the 60's.

Hell, look at voters. Normally an election is decided by the majority of less than half the country. On average, the choice is made by less than 25% of the population. With high turnout and a landslide, you might get 40% of the population. But generally, you're looking at a vocal minority, while the rest of the country just doesn't give a shit.

[St. Jimmy]

Jericho vs. Malenko at Mania would be MEGABUCKS.

[BigDaddyCool]

If by megabucks you mean vanilla midget against vanilla midget with gay sprinkles.

[Kane Knight]

Jericho vs. Malenko at Mania would be Bankruptcy.

[Kane Knight]

For the record, I love both guys. I'm just realistic.

[BigDaddyCool]

Kane Knight loves men. He is a gay.

[Fox]

JBL/Jericho promos are going to be tits. I think the road to WM for Y2J looks good.

[BigDaddyCool]

JBL is going to carry the promo end of that fued.

[Kane Knight]

JBL is going to carry the promo end of that fued.

Especially if Jericho continues to phone it in.

I'd like to pretend the only problem is I'm just not excited for wrestling these days, but Jericho is a different animal these days. Youtube proves that.

[Kane Knight]

What's interesting, BTW, is that less than a week has lapsed from "Give it time," and "Jericho's return was awesome!" and "fuck you!" and so on. Now, it's all excuses. So I guess the proper time to accept that Jericho's return wasn't all it was cracked up to be is four weeks, not three.

BDC, I think you owe everyone an apology for jumping the gun. :roll:

But seriously, it seems a lot of people are coming around and waking up to the fact that this isn't all that great. The problem being that now they're shifting the blame from the naysayers to WWE, which is more or less swapping a lie for a lie.

Jericho's return took about a month. I mean, I'm sorry people got pissed off that it "took too long" and "wasted" interest, but it really isn't all that unreasonable to build something for a month. People were pissed off, though, as though WWE had let them down, when they didn't. That's what Jericho said, too. That people were mad at him for something he never promised, something that was never advertised.

Vince didn't screw you, Chris didn't screw you. WWE didn't screw you. You screwed yourself by believing the hype. People were still angry.

Jericho's return with the torch carrier bit was kinda...Well, it could have been better, but it was fine. And if Jericho put on a show that was half as good as he used to, that crowd would have been completely on fire. It wasn't the crowd's fault, it wasn't WWE's fault. That was Jericho being lazy. And people defended him and everything. That's fine.

Beyond that, people still stick up for Chris as though this was someone else's fault. WWE probably could have done better, and I admit it, but I think the Lion's Share (Pun intended) of blame falls to Jericho. I mean, whoever came up with the idea that he was saving us from Orton also screwed the pooch. That was lame. But the Jercho's a big part of the problem, and people don't want to see it.

This post is probably bordering on Alienoid length by now, so I'll end here instead of rambling.

[BigDaddyCool]

What's interesting, BTW, is that less than a week has lapsed from "Give it time," and "Jericho's return was awesome!" and "fuck you!" and so on. Now, it's all excuses. So I guess the proper time to accept that Jericho's return wasn't all it was cracked up to be is four weeks, not three.

BDC, I think you owe everyone an apology for jumping the gun. :roll:

But seriously, it seems a lot of people are coming around and waking up to the fact that this isn't all that great. The problem being that now they're shifting the blame from the naysayers to WWE, which is more or less swapping a lie for a lie.

Jericho's return took about a month. I mean, I'm sorry people got pissed off that it "took too long" and "wasted" interest, but it really isn't all that unreasonable to build something for a month. People were pissed off, though, as though WWE had let them down, when they didn't. That's what Jericho said, too. That people were mad at him for something he never promised, something that was never advertised.

Vince didn't screw you, Chris didn't screw you. WWE didn't screw you. You screwed yourself by believing the hype. People were still angry.

Jericho's return with the torch carrier bit was kinda...Well, it could have been better, but it was fine. And if Jericho put on a show that was half as good as he used to, that crowd would have been completely on fire. It wasn't the crowd's fault, it wasn't WWE's fault. That was Jericho being lazy. And people defended him and everything. That's fine.

Beyond that, people still stick up for Chris as though this was someone else's fault. WWE probably could have done better, and I admit it, but I think the Lion's Share (Pun intended) of blame falls to Jericho. I mean, whoever came up with the idea that he was saving us from Orton also screwed the pooch. That was lame. But the Jercho's a big part of the problem, and people don't want to see it.

This post is probably bordering on Alienoid length by now, so I'll end here instead of rambling.

Jericho is the one that said he was there to save us from Orton, not boring ass wrestling, the WWE stale old formula, medicoraty being hailed as greatness, and spin-doctors. No, he was short sighted and said he was there to save us from Orton and only Orton.

[Kane Knight]

Jericho is the one that said he was there to save us from Orton, not boring ass wrestling, the WWE stale old formula, medicoraty being hailed as greatness, and spin-doctors. No, he was short sighted and said he was there to save us from Orton and only Orton.

I was affording the notion that he didn't actually come up with the SAVE_US idea himself, which I do believe to be probable. I'm not trying to remove any burden from Jericho, but most wrestlers don't exactly have creative control.

Jericho has failed by not putting on a great performance, but Jericho's not the whole show, so to speak.

[Innovator]

Who booked him to have a competitive match with Santino Freaking Marella? The guy couldn't beat Jerry Lawler, but it took a full match for Jericho to beat him? That started the slide

[BigDaddyCool]

I was affording the notion that he didn't actually come up with the SAVE_US idea himself, which I do believe to be probable. I'm not trying to remove any burden from Jericho, but most wrestlers don't exactly have creative control.

Jericho has failed by not putting on a great performance, but Jericho's not the whole show, so to speak.

While it is true, most wrestlers don't have creative control, Jericho was in lengthy contract meetings from what I understand. And I'm will to bet part of what was being discussed was his come back and how it would be handled. I just find it hard to believe Jericho was not involed in the creative process of coming up with his return gimmick/angle.

[BigDaddyCool]

Who booked him to have a competitive match with Santino Freaking Marella? The guy couldn't beat Jerry Lawler, but it took a full match for Jericho to beat him? That started the slide

Lawler > Jericho. Simply as that. Lawler be up Tazz faster than Jericho did as well.

[thecc]

Lawler > Jericho. Simply as that. Lawler be up Tazz faster than Jericho did as well.Didn't Tazz choke Lawler out in like under 30 seconds at ONS 2.

[BigDaddyCool]

I thought that he choked out angle.

[thedamndest]

Didn't Tazz choke Lawler out in like under 30 seconds at ONS 2.

Yes. BDC meant their match in like 2000 or something that had that angle where Tazz blinded JR by breaking a glass jar and Lawler was out for revenge.

[Kane Knight]

While it is true, most wrestlers don't have creative control, Jericho was in lengthy contract meetings from what I understand. And I'm will to bet part of what was being discussed was his come back and how it would be handled. I just find it hard to believe Jericho was not involed in the creative process of coming up with his return gimmick/angle.

I'm sure he was involved, the question is, was it to any meaningful extent?

[BigDaddyCool]

Point taken, KK. But if I was in Jericho's position during the negoations, I would have pushed heavily for my own idea, so I imagine he did the same. If they refused, I would have gone to TNA.

[Kane Knight]

You're not a carnie, Josh.

[BigDaddyCool]

Nor am I an canadian.

[Kane Knight]

True, they are a bit slow. ;)

Nah.

[Heyman]

The problem with Jericho,except for that lesbian hairdo

http://www.wwe.com/content/media/touts/medium/29062/5911862

[Heyman]

Jericho reminds me of Suze Orman for some reason:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=yUVmAAAACAAJ&printsec=frontcover&img=1&zoom=1&sig=JaVZXJnRuohQIasq__6hoKWFkdk

[Kane Knight]

Not seeing the semblence, Heyman.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Personally, I really don't see how Jericho has been lazy. I'm sure the guy doesn't like coming out and getting lukewarm responses. I mean, his promos haven't been the greatest ever, but it's not like they've been bad, either. The guy has also shown little ring-rust.

The fans wanted him at No Mercy. They wanted him more than Triple H. I don't know what happened, but when he redebuted, the fans were cheering, but it wasn't the greatest pop ever. Then it died down the next week for his entrance. Then I can't remember, but the fans were getting fucking HOT when he was about to win the WWE Championship. When JBL caused the disqualification, you could just feel people get pissed off.

You can blame Jericho, I guess, but I don't think that's it. Not exclusively. I honestly place some blame on the WWE. Most of it on the WWE, actually. Has Chris Jericho actually been in a main event match since he's been back? Think about it. He wrestled Santino Marella in the middle of the show, Umaga in the middle of the show and Randy Orton in the middle of the show. Marks, generally, take notice of things like that in an era where they've been conditioned to only care about what goes on last.

And then there is the fact that these are cooler crowds, Jericho was last a whiny heel, and that some fans might not have a clue who he is and need to be acquainted with him. I don't think it is reasonable to expect the guy to come back and literally save the WWE.

The man has come back, looked good in the ring, cut good promos, and is getting good pops. Granted, it's not up to his great standard, but the man has not been back for long. Another theory, is that the man has grown as a person. He's had twin daughters since he's been away from the WWE, apparently, and his son is growing up, he's found God, got a haircut, made it to the top, and he's probably a lot more adjusted family-wise. To come back and resume being a rock star might not be the most natural transition in the world. The best performances are ones laced with honestly, and as much as it pains me to say it, Jericho might have evolved beyond the point of being the old rock star type.

I do want to say that Jericho should not have to do anything new to prove his worth, though. When was the last time Shawn Michaels did anything new? Or Triple H did anything new? Jericho was great mainly for being the same character he was consistently, and for just being great on the mic and in the ring. He shouldn't need to come back with a new gimmick and all these changes. Also, the man's hair was always a little fruity. That was a whole part of his thing. Personally, I don't even think his new hair is bad. Way overblown.