Embarrased to be a CANUCKS fan

[Heyman]

I never thought I would say this. I am embarrassed to be a fan of the Vancouver Canucks tonight.

Not because they came out unprepared to play. But because they chose to take things too far tonight in their revenge against Steve Moore.

Todd Bertuzzi will be suspended tomorrow, and rightly so. His sucker punch of Steve Moore was classless, and Moore was badly hurt. Markus Naslund seemed as embarrassed as I was by the look on his face.

I would like to extend my best wishes to Steve Moore, and hope that my team has the balls to admit what they did was wrong tonight.

Also - WTF. 9-2 against the Avs? How can a team play SO bad when it's one of their most important games? I made fun of the Leafs awhile back when they got their asses handed to the Senators, but they were also missing key players. Canucks have everyone tonight.

Is this what will happen in the playoffs?

Canucks need to seriously wake the f</>uck up. They got outclassed by Detroit, and are taking it up the ass HARD from the Avs tonight.

[MoRcHeEbA]

it was a bad game, but it didn't happen last time they played so something was gonna go down tonight. The Avs got smoked yesterday 7-1 or something so they needed to come out strong. Pretty dumb of bertuzzi but what can you do. It's no different then Tucker low bridging Peca and putting him out for 6 months... or any other thing, when Moore hit Naslund it was a cheap hit so payback was gonna come.

[road doggy dogg]

LOL I can't wait for Gertner to reply :love:

[MoRcHeEbA]

yeah should be good.

[Heyman]

it was a bad game, but it didn't happen last time they played so something was gonna go down tonight. The Avs got smoked yesterday 7-1 or something so they needed to come out strong. Pretty dumb of bertuzzi but what can you do. It's no different then Tucker low bridging Peca and putting him out for 6 months... or any other thing, when Moore hit Naslund it was a cheap hit so payback was gonna come.

Yeah - I was all for Bertuzzzi (or anyone) taking out Moore. I just wished it would've been FACE to FACE. When McCarty beat the sh</>it out of Lemieux in 1997 in vengeance, it was FACE to FACE. What Bertuzzi did was gutless. I have limited respect for cowards.

Oh well - I'll support the canucks for life. I'm still disappointed however. I'm worried about the canucks in the playoffs.

[MoRcHeEbA]

im not worried at all, Colorado is a GOOD team it's not like they lost to a non-playoff team. I would also bet that Bertuzzi tried to get moore to fight but he didn't want his ass handed to him so he didn't.

[Heyman]

LOL I can't wait for Gertner to reply :love:


Tis why I made this thread. :cool:

[CNM]

Bertuzzi is scum. Not only did he punch him from behind, he drove his head into the ice. Marc Crawford is an asshole as well. When Moore was on the ice, unconscious and bleeding, Crawford had a smirk on his face.

[Heyman]

Bertuzzi is scum. Not only did he punch him from behind, he drove his head into the ice. Marc Crawford is an asshole as well. When Moore was on the ice, unconscious and bleeding, Crawford had a smirk on his face.

........

It's sad that I can't disagree with you WHATSOEVER. :nono:

[MoRcHeEbA]

Bertuzzi is scum. Not only did he punch him from behind, he drove his head into the ice. Marc Crawford is an asshole as well. When Moore was on the ice, unconscious and bleeding, Crawford had a smirk on his face.


it was pretty clear he was out anyways before bert road him to the ice... I'm not saying what Bertuzzi did was in anyway right but that's how hockey works and it always has. Moore took a cheap shot at naslund two weeks ago and he got his payback. Crawford also probably was happy that it happend, I mean look what happend with no call Crawford was PISSED and he should have been but what can you do.

[Heyman]

I dunno.....

I agree that Moore should've been taken out (and I don't particularily care that Moore was injured in the way that he was..........he had it coming). I just think it was classless of Bertuzzi to attack him from behind.

Wonder what's up next for Mr. Burke.

It's obvious that we need a key trade IMO if this team is going to make noise in the playoffs.

Again - Not that Cloutier is entirely to blame for tonight's loss, but 5 goals in one period?..........in arguably the most important game? Granted the team STUNK tonight, but when are we going to see Cloutier SAVE the canucks in an IMPORTANT game.....when the canucks NEED HIM THE MOST?

[John la Rock]

ya Bertuzzi went way too far. I think it was frustarted because he's having a shitty season and his team was getting their ass kicked. LOL at Brad May. who the **** does that guy think he is?

[Shawn]

I'll go a step further and say i think it was criminal. I think there should be charges considered. Drastic yes. But Moore is in the hospital now and last i heard he's in bad shape.Bertuzzi better stock up on the advil cause he's gunna get pounded when they meet again.

[MoRcHeEbA]

they wont meet again unless they both go to atleast the third round of the play-offs. I don't think it's really a criminal matter, it's part of the game. Bertuzzi's gonna get suspended or he should anyways for driving him to the ice but that's about all that's gonna happen.

[Shawn]

Unless moore takes a turn for the worst. Anyone know his status?

[MoRcHeEbA]

he just has a concussion, that's what the TV is saying anyways, he's been released from hospital already, he was conscious and talking before he went to the hospital.

[road doggy dogg]

So Heyman, how many "most important games of the season" does Vancouver have exactly?

[samichna]

It's all because of the intistigator rule. Otherwise, it coulda been taken care of in another, easier way.

Although, Betuzzi's actions can be seen as "cheap", Moore should have known he was going to be targeted after what he did to Naslund.

Hartley should have benched him last night, because it was obvious that SOMETHING was going to happen to him.

[da_king]

<font color="#ccffcc">

i was pretty disgusted and embarassed as well, i'd expect probably a ten game suspension for something like that. it looked really ugly.

</font>

[YOUR Hero]

If Moore had taken off his helmet/visor when he fought Cooke early in the game, it would have been all over with.

Granato shouldn't have had Moore out there with the score the way it was. Stupid on his part. I guess I'm one of the only ones that sees faults on the other side as well.

Bertuzzi wouldn't have done what he did if he knew Moore was going to be that badly hurt. That part wasn't planned.

[TheJShow]

Hartley should have benched him last night

Granato's the coach now....

But yea I agree Moore shouldn't have been playing in that game

[Gertner]

A cheap move by a gutless piece of crap on a horsesh.it fraud team. what more is there to say? The never beat any good teams, and now they will not get home ice advantage. HAHAHAHAHA! Nice knowing ya canucks!

[MoRcHeEbA]

apperently Moores got a cracked vertbrae, but they're saying it didn't happen when Bertuzzi rode him to the ground but rather when Konowalchuk jumped on Bertuzzi :|

[The Dub]

I'm an LA Kings fan because I used to listen to N.W.A.

[Y2Ant]

A cheap move by a gutless piece of crap on a horsesh.it fraud team. what more is there to say? The never beat any good teams, and now they will not get home ice advantage. HAHAHAHAHA! Nice knowing ya canucks!
lol

[Y2Ant]

apperently Moores got a cracked vertbrae, but they're saying it didn't happen when Bertuzzi rode him to the ground but rather when Konowalchuk jumped on Bertuzzi :|
I saw a pic of Nikolishin on top of Bertuzzi when he was on Moore, might have been him :o

What exactly did he do anyway? It just sounded like a clothesline to the back of the head or something, must have been a pretty hard one to KO him.

I don't like to see anyone get injured but if the Avs coach was gonna play him knowing that something was probably gonna go down, then tough shit really. Revenge for Naslund dammit :mad:

Also who won in Rob Blake's fight, I didn't know he was a fighter :o

[VonErich Lives]

yeah, where there now saying broken vertebre I'd expect one of the biggest suspensions in league history (see: McSorley).

The question is, this is the same town that tried to arrest McSorley, are they not acting because the player is on their team or because there was no stick invovled?

[VonErich Lives]

They just said on the Radio a Monteal paper is reporting he's in surgey for 2 borken vertebre.

I think Bartuzzi might save himself some time and put the skates away now, I don't think he'll need them till next Season.

[MoRcHeEbA]

the police are investigating it now. The fact remains this shouldn't be a police investigation. Was it a cheap hit yes. Was it overboard yes. should Moore still be playing when he was in two fights in the first period and the score was 7-2? NO if you turtle in fights and wont go but you have a target something is gonna happen. I believe the suspension that he'll get is to the end of the first round of the play-offs. I also think that's fair.

I meant nikolishion ant my B :o

Blake lost his fight.

[MoRcHeEbA]

yeah, where there now saying broken vertebre I'd expect one of the biggest suspensions in league history (see: McSorley).

The question is, this is the same town that tried to arrest McSorley, are they not acting because the player is on their team or because there was no stick invovled?


A stick can be doubled as a deadly weapon, the police are going to look at this and say nothing. There were no laws broken. Moore isn't going to press charges cause he knew he was a marked man. It's part of the game. Mcsorley's situation was different he would have actually killed Brasheir with a stick.

They also didn't try to arrest him. They did. He got an 18 month conditonal sentence.

[MoRcHeEbA]

I saw a pic of Nikolishin on top of Bertuzzi when he was on Moore, might have been him :o

What exactly did he do anyway? It just sounded like a clothesline to the back of the head or something, must have been a pretty hard one to KO him.

I don't like to see anyone get injured but if the Avs coach was gonna play him knowing that something was probably gonna go down, then tough shit really. Revenge for Naslund dammit :mad:

Also who won in Rob Blake's fight, I didn't know he was a fighter :o

he grabbed the back of moores jersey after Moore said something to him off the face off and wouldn't fight so Bertuzzi grabbed his Jersey and knocked him one in the side of the head and knocked him out. then Bertuzzi fell on him onto the ice.

[MoRcHeEbA]

so appearently the coach on colorado made up the rumor of the Vertabrae and it's actually a sprianed neck,concussion and cut to the face. :|

[VonErich Lives]

A stick can be doubled as a deadly weapon, the police are going to look at this and say nothing. There were no laws broken. Moore isn't going to press charges cause he knew he was a marked man. It's part of the game. Mcsorley's situation was different he would have actually killed Brasheir with a stick.

They also didn't try to arrest him. They did. He got an 18 month conditonal sentence.

Haven't see the tape... but, fighting is part of the game, a shot when someone isn't looking (with or w/o stick) is not part of the game, driving someone to the ice (again, I haven't see the tape but every report I heard says he drove him to the ice after the punch) isn't part of the game.

Again, I haven't seen the tape, so I'll have to check out sportcenter tonight.

[Lara Emily]

Haven't see the tape... but, fighting is part of the game, a shot when someone isn't looking (with or w/o stick) is not part of the game, driving someone to the ice (again, I haven't see the tape but every report I heard says he drove him to the ice after the punch) isn't part of the game.

Again, I haven't seen the tape, so I'll have to check out sportcenter tonight.

T'was definitely a cheap cheap dirty hit which warrants a strong suspension but it is not liek the McSorley case, and it does not warrant criminal charges. Nor (before anyone suggests it) a ban from the NHL.

[MoRcHeEbA]

Haven't see the tape... but, fighting is part of the game, a shot when someone isn't looking (with or w/o stick) is not part of the game, driving someone to the ice (again, I haven't see the tape but every report I heard says he drove him to the ice after the punch) isn't part of the game.

Again, I haven't seen the tape, so I'll have to check out sportcenter tonight.


the punch he hit him with knocked him out cold, that was clear, he didn't as much drive him to the ice as he did was hold on to him and fall on him, it's a bad situation for moore, but had bertuzzi maybe just let him drop to the ice face first it could have been even worse for him.

[MoRcHeEbA]

T'was definitely a cheap cheap dirty hit which warrants a strong suspension but it is not liek the McSorley case, and it does not warrant criminal charges. Nor (before anyone suggests it) a ban from the NHL.


I agree with that except I don't think it will warrent as long of a suspension as some people might think it should be. The NHL is going to look at the hit and base there suspension not on Moore's injury but rather what bertuzzi did. He did cheap shot him from behind. he did fall on him. They might also recognize that Moore was out before he was falling and thus Bertuzzi somewhat held him up, cause if Bertuzzi let him go he would have DROPPED. I would be VERY VERY surprised if he gets more then 10 games for it. I also doubt he'll even get 10 games...

[BCWWF]

Morcheba shut up. That is the most biased talk I have ever seen on these boards. Bertuzzi has his history of doing dumb shit things like this, he took a total cheap shot (And IMO the hit on Naslund wasn't unbelievably bad to begin with) and now you are saying that Bertuzzi helped him by holding him up? You are throwing out so much bullshit throughout this thread that its not even funny. Accept the fact that Bertuzzi made an unbelievably bad decision and will likely be suspended for a long time.

Bertuzzi is a fu</>cking retard. Last year he took a dumb penalty late in Game 7 against the Wild ruining any chance they had to come back, and now it looks like his stupid shit is going to mess their playoff hopes up again. I say trade that piece of shit for someone who is good and doesn't make shitty ideas.

[Splaya]

But here's the point that needs to be made. Bertuzzi was down 9-2 in the game or 7-2 or whatever. Point is his team was being blown out of the water, and here is this little shit running his mouth to him. Now I'm a Detroit fan and was pissed when he hurt Chelios by falling on Chelios shoulder. But when your down by this much in the game and someone is running your mouth, and your being embarassed what do you think your going to do, sit there. No your going to fight. Problem here is that instead of him trying to get away from you, skate in front of him and punch his lights out. Not take him out from behind. It's an act of cowardice on his part and I hope he gets suspended. Anyone else besides me want to see a Canucks-Avs first round match up?

As for Crawford he has and always will be a dick so nothing suprises me if he really did have a smirk on his face


My Prediction for Bertuzzi's suspension (even though it will cause some people getting pissed off): 1 year suspension.

[BCWWF]

A long suspension like that honestly isnt out of the question, the way it looks now anyway. But who knows, maybe nobody will be playing next year anyway.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Bertuzzi deserves a year for being a chicken shit pussy but seeing as how there might not be an NHL next year I doubt thatll happen

Bertuzzi should have spun him around and beat the shit out of him. If Moore didnt want to fight then he would take his ass whoopin like a man. But punching him in the back of the head like a little bitch is rediculous

Bret Hull was talking about how players nowadays grow up wearing shit loads of protective equipment and forget how easy it is to injure someone

[Arashi Kage]

Bertuzzi is scum. Not only did he punch him from behind, he drove his head into the ice. Marc Crawford is an asshole as well. When Moore was on the ice, unconscious and bleeding, Crawford had a smirk on his face.


Everyone who knows me is aware that I've never been a fan of Bertuzzi. His actions last night are no different than the way he was from '91-'92 to '94-'95 when he played here in Guelph in the OHL.

Bertuzzi's the kind of player who finds it very difficult to play diciplined hockey. Bertuzzi is the player who takes a stupid penalty in the last few minutes of a game when his team is down by a goal and trying to tie it up.

Bertuzzi :n:

[road doggy dogg]

Yeah he should be suspended for that. No ****ing reason for that. If he wanted to "avenge" Naslund, fight him like a man.

[MoRcHeEbA]

Morcheba shut up. That is the most biased talk I have ever seen on these boards. Bertuzzi has his history of doing dumb shit things like this, he took a total cheap shot (And IMO the hit on Naslund wasn't unbelievably bad to begin with) and now you are saying that Bertuzzi helped him by holding him up? You are throwing out so much bullshit throughout this thread that its not even funny. Accept the fact that Bertuzzi made an unbelievably bad decision and will likely be suspended for a long time.

Bertuzzi is a fu</>cking retard. Last year he took a dumb penalty late in Game 7 against the Wild ruining any chance they had to come back, and now it looks like his stupid shit is going to mess their playoff hopes up again. I say trade that piece of shit for someone who is good and doesn't make shitty ideas.


lol shut up yourself sorry if im pointing out the facts. I'm not being bias towards bertuzzi, im saying the truth if you saw any of the shit that went on last night you would know. also have you ever held an unconscious person? a 200 pound person will drop like they have 400 pounds of weight on them. :yes: look into some facts and go hope minnesota gets back to the play-offs eventually.

[MoRcHeEbA]

and did you guys not see that Moore turtled out of two fights in the game. that alone showed granato that he was a marked man so there was no reason to leave him in the game late in the game. Granato himself knows what it's like to be a marked man he did slash a guy right in the face and got suspended for 15 games. I'm not trying to say Bertuzzi doesn't deserve along term suspension or anything like that im just saying the NHL isn't going to come down on him as much as you people think they should.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Bertuzzi outweighs Moore by 35 pounds. He could have easy turned him around and started pounding on him. I have no problem with retaliation but come on be a man about it

[BCWWF]

I am sure Bertuzzi was thinking "Whoopdie do, I'll jack this guy in the back of the head...OMG HE'S UNCONSCIOUS!!! I BETTER CATCH HIM AND LAY HIM DOWN TO SAFETY!"

Get real, it may have been better of for Moore, key words there are "may have," but its not like Bertuzzi did it on purpose of anything, Moore shouldn't have been falling to the ground unconscious to begin with.

Don't pretend like you aren't biased towards Bertuzzi, because it is so blatant that you are. I'm not gonna lie, I have personal bias for my teams players too, but when it is something like this you just have to sit down and recognize how stupid that decision was, and not just for him personally, not having him in the upcoming weaks could be detrimental to his team.

[MoRcHeEbA]

I am sure Bertuzzi was thinking "Whoopdie do, I'll jack this guy in the back of the head...OMG HE'S UNCONSCIOUS!!! I BETTER CATCH HIM AND LAY HIM DOWN TO SAFETY!"

Get real, it may have been better of for Moore, key words there are "may have," but its not like Bertuzzi did it on purpose of anything, Moore shouldn't have been falling to the ground unconscious to begin with.

Don't pretend like you aren't biased towards Bertuzzi, because it is so blatant that you are. I'm not gonna lie, I have personal bias for my teams players too, but when it is something like this you just have to sit down and recognize how stupid that decision was, and not just for him personally, not having him in the upcoming weaks could be detrimental to his team.


I have already said it was stupid of him to do, I've said he deserves to get suspended.

Before you call bertuzzi a big dick for this one though maybe you should look up what Matt Johnson did to Jeff Beukeboom back in 94 that was the basically the same thing that happend here and he got a 12 game suspenson. Oh and Beukeboom never played again. Moore will.

[road doggy dogg]

Okay, and what does that have to do with anything? Someone else did it and got suspended; so? That doesn't make Bertuzzi any less of a dick.

[MoRcHeEbA]

Okay, and what does that have to do with anything? Someone else did it and got suspended; so? That doesn't make Bertuzzi any less of a dick.



did I say it does?

[MoRcHeEbA]

im saying if he wants to call me stupid for being bias towards Bertuzzi he would have been the same way for the player on his team. I don't recall ever being Bias towards Bertuzzi in this thread but whatever.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

if Bertuzzi gets more than the rest of the season, he'll go to the WHA

Im sure he wont mind

[BCWWF]

I had no idea who Matt Johnson was in 1994, but I am sure he got suspended justly since I don't hear anything since. If Matt Johnson did what Bertuzzi did, I would react in the same way I am now.

[road doggy dogg]

did I say it does?

I was referring to the "Before you call Bertuzzi a big dick for this..." part.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Johnson punched him in the back of the head too

[road doggy dogg]

I know that (they mentioned it in the article on TSN). I'm just saying, yes what Johnson did was bad. Bertuzzi did it too. As far as I'm concerned, they're both dicks. I don't care who did it first and for what reason, it's still a stupid thing to do.

[MoRcHeEbA]

I had no idea who Matt Johnson was in 1994, but I am sure he got suspended justly since I don't hear anything since. If Matt Johnson did what Bertuzzi did, I would react in the same way I am now.


so Bertuzzi should get 12 games and you'll have no problem with that?

[MoRcHeEbA]

also, I made a mistake it was in 98 the johnson thing

[MoRcHeEbA]

http://www.hockey-stats.com/news/A-1998-11-23.shtml

[BCWWF]

When did I ever condone anything that Johnson did?

[MoRcHeEbA]

I never said you did, im saying that you felt his punishment was justified with a 12 game suspenson so why shouldn't Bertuzzi's?

[BCWWF]

According to our local sports radio, the police are looking into it

[MoRcHeEbA]

the police aren't gonna do anything about it anyways. yeah they're looking into it, is Moore gonna press charges? unlikely.

[BCWWF]

Purely because I have no idea what this was and what the severity of it all was. I have a good idea what happened, but I am not going to justify or attack his suspension because I do not know enough about it.

[BCWWF]

The radio station I am listening to is taking phone calls on the subject right now, if there are any interesting opinions I will share them on here. Lou Nanne, if any of you know who he is, will also talk.

[Y2Ant]

Blake lost his fight.
:(

[MoRcHeEbA]

he got in one good shot though :)


then of course he got pounded and fell to the ground

[Y2Ant]

Blake always comes up on the fight thing on NHL 2004 on my custon team, I don't wanna use him though since he's my best Dman and he always jobs in fights :mad:

[MoRcHeEbA]

I need to get NHL2004 so I can make you guys lose to me

[BCWWF]

Pick up Rob Ray

[Y2Ant]

Yeah, you can teach me stuff about hockey too :$

Then I can use it against you and whoop your ass ala Kapoutman :cool:

[Y2Ant]

BCWWF does this picture make you mad

http://www.btinternet.com/~livinglegend7/sigs/gaborik.jpg

[MoRcHeEbA]

I would kill you Ant :mad:

[MoRcHeEbA]

would that 44 on LA happen to be Bertuzzi

[VonErich Lives]

and did you guys not see that Moore turtled out of two fights in the game. that alone showed granato that he was a marked man so there was no reason to leave him in the game late in the game. Granato himself knows what it's like to be a marked man he did slash a guy right in the face and got suspended for 15 games. I'm not trying to say Bertuzzi doesn't deserve along term suspension or anything like that im just saying the NHL isn't going to come down on him as much as you people think they should.

Wait, so it's the coaches fault for not taking the player out?

WTF cheebs... I dunno, maybe your bleading team colors a little to deep here.

I'm still trying to see the video (stupid espn.com video wont load).

But, everyone I've talked to who seen it, said he drove him into the Ice, he wasn't trying to catch or hold him up.

If that's the case, I don't see why the Ice wouldn't count as a deadly weapon in the same way the stick (mcsorley) or a foot, etc...

My take (again, w/o seeing the video) if he hit him from behined and drove him into the ice, the intent doesn't matter, it's the outcome (kinda like manslaughter v. murder 1).

[MoRcHeEbA]

Wait, so it's the coaches fault for not taking the player out?

WTF cheebs... I dunno, maybe your bleading team colors a little to deep here.

I'm still trying to see the video (stupid espn.com video wont load).

But, everyone I've talked to who seen it, said he drove him into the Ice, he wasn't trying to catch or hold him up.

If that's the case, I don't see why the Ice wouldn't count as a deadly weapon in the same way the stick (mcsorley) or a foot, etc...

My take (again, w/o seeing the video) if he hit him from behined and drove him into the ice, the intent doesn't matter, it's the outcome (kinda like manslaughter v. murder 1).

I wassn't saying it's the coaches fault but he KNEW Moore was gonna get it sometime in that game he was marked from the get go. When the score then becomes 8-2 shits gonna fly on anyteam trying to "spark" a team or whatever you wanna call it. none of it should have happend but you can't change it now.

[MoRcHeEbA]

it was like in the Ottawa and Philly game the other night, Martin (sens coach) was sending his players to fight, but the guy Philly was targeting (Havlat) was in the box and he wassn't going to be on the ice cause he knew what would happen.

[Y2Ant]

I would kill you Ant :mad:
Bring it :cool:

[Y2Ant]

would that 44 on <s>LA</s> the Las Vegas Dingosaurs happen to be Bertuzzi
:yes:

[VonErich Lives]

it was like in the Ottawa and Philly game the other night, Martin (sens coach) was sending his players to fight, but the guy Philly was targeting (Havlat) was in the box and he wassn't going to be on the ice cause he knew what would happen.

Sounds like your blaming the coach, I know your saying your not...

But saying "The coach should have known he was marked and fists would fly, and he shouldn't have been out there".

Only way I can read that is putting some blame on the coach.

[da_king]

<font color="#ccffcc">
granato's an inexperienced coach, anyone with half a brain knows that when the game's out of hand and you've got a marked man, you sit him out unless you want to start sh</>it or egg the other team on. granato isn't to blame for what bertuzzi did but is partly to blame for allowing things to get out of hand by having moore on the ice. anyways the fan reaction around here from what i've heard on radio talk shows and what not is that most people are really laying into bertuzzi rather then taking a homer stance on it, some people are calling for a suspension into the playoffs as well.


</font>

[BCWWF]

Goddamnit! For some reason my screen keeps scrolling back up to the picture ant posted :wtf: :rant:

[BCWWF]

Good, I started a new page, SCREW YOU ANT

[da_king]

http://www.btinternet.com/~livinglegend7/sigs/gaborik.jpg

[road doggy dogg]

LOL da_king :love:

[BCWWF]

It's not drawn to it anymore, I can read RDD's post in peace

[YOUR Hero]

Granato's inexperience as a coach is no excuse. He is partly to blame for what happened. He played gritty hockey his entire career and knows better. Granato was even playing Worrel on the powerplay. These things were done to infuriate the Canucks. Of course he didn't expect for Bertuzzi to break Moore's neck (or whatever the injury is) but he knew what he was up to.

Hockey justice. Overboard.

You guys can sit there are debate things, and that's fine, don't get me wrong, Bertuzzi deserves a severe suspension. There is however alot of blame to go around.

[BCWWF]

Heres a question. I just looked on ESPN and according to Brian Burke, Bertuzzi tried to contact Moore at the hospital to apologize and whatnot. My question is, would you be willing to talk to him at that point?

I don't think I would, at least not yet. I couldn't take an apology from Bertuzzi as sincere. What would you do?

[MoRcHeEbA]

I would. Moore knows Bertuzzi wassn't trying to break his neck. The neck was an accident. also when 4 guys dog pile on you that weight doesn't help.

[YOUR Hero]

Yeah I'd take his call. I'd also place the call, in fact I'd show up at the hospital.

---

VANCOUVER (CP) - Colorado Avalanche forward Steve Moore, sucker-punched from behind by Canucks star Todd Bertuzzi, will miss the rest of the season with a fractured neck as bad blood led to a bad injury.



Bertuzzi, meanwhile, faces the wrath of the NHL and possibly the police.



Moore, a rookie with modest numbers for the Avs, crashed face first to the ice following Bertuzzi's punch in the third period of Colorado's 9-2 win Monday night.



The Canucks power forward landed on top of Moore, who was targeted because of a hit last month that sidelined Vancouver captain Markus Naslund with a concussion.


Police are investigating the incident, which also left Moore with a concussion. He will remain in hospital in Vancouver ``for an indefinite period of time,'' the Avs said.



``Regardless of the fact that this involves a player in the National Hockey League, this will be a routine assault investigation,'' said Const. Sarah Bloor, a spokesman for the Vancouver Police.



``Crown counsel will be responsible for making a decision as to whether or not anyone is charged.''



Bertuzzi has been suspended pending a hearing with the NHL in Toronto on Wednesday.



The league issued a statement saying executive vice-president Colin Campbell, who handles discipline for the NHL, and Bertuzzi would not comment until a disciplinary decision was reached.



The general managers of both teams held separate news conferences Tuesday. Canucks GM Brian Burke said Bertuzzi had planned to meet the media but was ``too distraught to come here today.''



``It's been too emotionally difficult for him,'' he said.



``Right now he's very upset about what happened. In terms of the incident, he's remorseful and relieved that Mr. Moore's injuries at this point appear, that a full recovery should be possible.''



Bertuzzi had tried to contact Moore at the hospital, in addition to trying to speak to the Avalanche trainer, Burke said.



The Canucks GM, while wishing Moore ``nothing but the best in terms of recovering from this injury,'' declined comment on the incident himself.



Colorado GM Pierre Lacroix was also guarded.



``We hope as an organization that Steve will recover,'' Lacroix said, adding more medical tests are planned.



``All I know that his spirit, under the circumstance, is good,'' Lacroix added.



He avoided offering any more medical information, saying that was best left to doctors.



Lacroix also did not want to talk about a criminal investigation, saying he just wanted his player to get well.



``I don't want to think of anything else,'' he said.



It was in Vancouver that Marty McSorley, then with the Boston Bruins, was charged with assault after knocking out then-Canuck Donald Brashear with a stick to the head in February 2000.



McSorley, suspended by the NHL for a year, was convicted of assault and given an 18-month conditional discharge.



Moore's injuries are extensive.



``Exams have revealed that Steve sustained a concussion and a cervical injury (neck fracture) and will be out at least for the remainder of the season,'' head Colorado trainer Pat Karns said in a statement.



``He also suffered deep facial lacerations and abrasions to the forehead, right cheek and upper lip.''



As soon as his condition allows it, the 25-year-old from Windsor, Ont., will be transferred to Craig Hospital in Denver, the statement continued.



On a team stacked with stars, Moore is a checking forward who has four goals and seven assists in 57 games this season, 13th in scoring on the Avs. He has 37 penalty minutes.



Bertuzzi is a bona-fide star, a native of Sudbury, Ont., who signed a $27.8-million US four-year contract in October. While known for his big hits - his hard-hitting checks were featured in a TV commercial for Gatorade - he usually steers away from fights.



He has 17 goals and 43 assists, second best on the Canucks. He also has 122 penalty minutes.



Bertuzzi was suspended 10 games two years ago for coming off the bench to join an on-ice fight.



But bad blood between Colorado and Vancouver, currently No. 2 and No. 4 in the West, had been simmering since Moore's hit on Naslund during a game Feb. 16 in Denver. Naslund suffered a concussion that cost him three games.



Moore wasn't penalized for the hit and the league took no action.



Vancouver coach Marc Crawford called Moore's hit ``a cheap shot by a young kid on a captain, the leading scorer in the league.''



The two teams met in Denver on March 3 but there was little action in a 5-5 tie. That changed Monday night as the score became lopsided in Colorado's favour.



Asked how far over the line Bertuzzi's hit was, Colorado coach Tony Granato said: ``We have too much to offer in our game for something like this. Does it cross the line? Of course it does.''



But Lacroix said the NHL would do the right thing.



``I have full trust they will do the appropriate action.''



The Avs GM also said he had not heard from the Canucks.



``I haven't heard from nobody,'' he said, adding Bertuzzi's agent had made a call to request information.



The Moore injury is the latest black eye for the NHL, following a brawl-filled game last Friday between the Ottawa Senators and Philadelphia Flyers, which set an NHL record of 419 penalty minutes.



And the league will not be pleased that the Bertuzzi bloodbath tarnished NHL trade deadline day - normally a dream day for hockey junkies.



``This is not the way we're going to make people love the sport,'' said Lacroix, who refused to be drawn into further debate.



The Denver Post called the incident ``an ugly piece of frontier justice.''



``Even with the animosity between Colorado and Vancouver seemingly building by the second, nobody expected it to come to this,'' said the Rocky Mountain News.



Bertuzzi received a match penalty for his hit on the Avalanche centre Monday.



The two teams don't meet again during the regular season.



Colorado cancelled a planned skate Tuesday morning at GM Place. The team was to fly to Edmonton later in the day for a game Wednesday against the Oilers.


http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=75668

[Y2Ant]

Bertuzzi is introducing Gaborik to the fans in attendence

[BCWWF]

Gaborik is a good guy.

[YOUR Hero]

greedy

[natureboycv]

<font color=8307ff><b>Yeah I'm a Canucks fan but what Bertuzzi did wasn't cool. :n: Like some other people said, he could've easily beat up Moore face to face anyway, there wasn't really much point.</font></b>

[BlackRavyyn]

<font color=seablue><i>I don't really know what to say. There's been so much said in this thread already that might make what I write seem redundant but I'll try my best.

There were a few things wrong with that game last night that made me lose a lot of respect for the Canucks organization and for me, someone who calls Vancouver my adopted home, is a lot to say.

Not only was there the Bertuzzi incident, but there was the May incidents. He was flapping his yap at Aebischer and for what? What was he going to do, fight him? And then Crawford's reaction to the whole incident was far from shocked, again showing the calousness and assinine behaviour that caused me to hate the Avs until him and The Ego left.

Morcheeba is speaking a lot like my boss' wife did when she was visiting today and she is heavily involved with hockey. I was mentioning that it's time Bertuzzi's head was on a platter and she was telling me that it's hockey, but it's far from that. Think of the following items:

- The original hit, Moore on Naslund, was not called and therefore was iffy at most. It may seem dirty in some people's minds but obviously the league, and the refs didn't think so. And for Crawford to sit there and bitch about some player hitting "his star," is disgusting. If he hit a third line player like that, would it have made it any different?

- Following that game, many players were calling for Moore's head. This is called threats which would make the attack thought out.

- Bertuzzi is seen chasing Moore, tugging at his jersey. You see Moore refusing to turn his head and fighting him. Obviously Bertuzzi is not taking no for an answer and why is that? During tonight's Calgary-Edmonton game, Olijwa is trying to get Laraque to fight and he just keeps in the play. Such as was last night so Bertuzzi should've skated away but instead - sucker punches him and falls on top or him/pushes his head into the ice. It depends on how you look at the tape.

- If the neck break was caused by Bertuzzi or a player from either team jumping into the foray...it's still Bertuzzi's fault for causing that injury. Think...if Bertuzzi didn't sucker punch him, Moore would've have been on the ice in the first place and his players wouldn't have helped him out.

And I need to ask - Why shouldn't this be investigated by the Vancouver police? It was an assault. This wasn't a fight, this was not a mere check into the boards. A player was struck and knocked out. What benefit does either team have from a chickenshit move like that? I can even be backed by hockey players here in that the only moves on the ice are done to get to the puck and score. If there's a fight, it's to get a rise out of the team. A hit like that, only proves you're the idiot.

In all, I think Bertuzzi should start practicing a different kind of swing - his golf swing. His suspension will reflect his actions of that evening and his past and that will be a year. And what is going to happen when he returns? Would you want a player like that?</i></font>

[Gertner]

if he isn't suspended for the rest of the year, than the NHL is a bigger joke than i thought.

and heyman, to quote u on your original post. The Leafs are 3-1 vs the sens, so i have no idea where you pulled that from.

[Y2Ant]

Gaborik eats glass

[Splaya]

He needs to be suspended for at least 1 year because I just saw the hit for the first time today, just a couple of minutes ago. When Moore was going down Bertuzzi clearly was throwing him down to the ground and even when he was on the ground he pushed on his neck again.


Needless to say when the forum breaks the news of this, there is going to be a lot of controversy. Also, I believe there should be a criminal investigation in this because it is bullshit. He deliberately tried to injure him. If someone did that in the street (just a random 2 people) would the one who did that be kept out of jail??? No! I believe he needs to be suspended and brought in front of a court.

Just an act of cowardice that's my opinion.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

yeah but there wont be an NHL next year so it wont matter

[Shawn]

yeah but there wont be an NHL next year so it wont matter

In that case the Avs shoulda been coming over the boards to get at that mother ****er.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

why? The Avs have a great chance of winning the Cup this year. They shouldnt throw it all away because someone took a cheap shot on one of their rookies

oh yeah Steve Moore is from Windsor just FYI

[Splaya]

See the NHL should be smart here. They should suspend him for the rest of the season. Then they should say 1 year of playing time starting at the beginning of next year. Therefore if they lockout he should have to start the supsension 1 year after they lockout. That's my theory.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

then he'll go to the WHA

[Lara Emily]

Criminal Charges in hockey games are for the most part absolutely ridiculous. I didn't support it with McSorley and I won't support it now.

[samichna]

He needs to be suspended for at least 1 year because I just saw the hit for the first time today, just a couple of minutes ago. When Moore was going down Bertuzzi clearly was throwing him down to the ground and even when he was on the ground he pushed on his neck again.


Needless to say when the forum breaks the news of this, there is going to be a lot of controversy. Also, I believe there should be a criminal investigation in this because it is bullshit. He deliberately tried to injure him. If someone did that in the street (just a random 2 people) would the one who did that be kept out of jail??? No! I believe he needs to be suspended and brought in front of a court.

Just an act of cowardice that's my opinion.

Yeah, but you can't bodycheck someone into a store window either. Cause that's assault

Or shoot a puck at someone's face who is walking down Main St. Cause that's assault with a weapon


Sports are different than regualr life, there is a certain voluntary assumption of risk that is made by participants.

I am not saying that Moore should have assumed he was gonna get his neck broken, by any means, but consider the notion of the voluntary assumption of risk.

[Splaya]

He got sucker punched from behind and driven into the ice because he wouldn't fight the pussy. Honestly, could you be any more cowardly. Sports are a different life yes. But if your pissed with someone you talk to them man to man (or woman to woman, not to offend any of the chicks here) and fight like that. Not suckering someone from behind. And about this phone call where he is trying to get a hold of Moore. Dont get ahold of him by phone. If your truly not trying to be a pussy, then go see him in the hospital.


I'm not pissed at you samchina, just pissed in general of the whole situation.

[road doggy dogg]

Really? I know a couple people with the last name Moore.. wonder if there's any relation.


-edit- this was in response to Supreme saying he was from Windsor :o Didn't realize there was 2 pages when I replied

[samichna]

He got sucker punched from behind and driven into the ice because he wouldn't fight the pussy. Honestly, could you be any more cowardly. Sports are a different life yes. But if your pissed with someone you talk to them man to man (or woman to woman, not to offend any of the chicks here) and fight like that. Not suckering someone from behind. And about this phone call where he is trying to get a hold of Moore. Dont get ahold of him by phone. If your truly not trying to be a pussy, then go see him in the hospital.


I'm not pissed at you samchina, just pissed in general of the whole situation.

Yeah man, no worries, it's all for the sake of discussion. :y:

[TheJShow]

Put it this way - as people jumped ontop of Bertuzzi and Moore, Bertuzzi was winding up to punch him repetitively....

Bertuzzi was going to punch the crap out of a guy with a broken neck - that's bullshit.

[da_king]

<font color="#ccffcc">

to my knowledge, criminal charges have only been persued in hockey when a stick had been used in an incident. also the nhl usually just punishes the action itself and not the result of said action. i'd say the prescedent had been set in the matt johnson case years back but then again then nhl is hardly ever consistent and since there is no hard rules as far as how long a player must get suspended for whatever particular infraction, it's left open to interpretation and of course inconsistencies.

</font>

[VonErich Lives]

Really? I know a couple people with the last name Moore.. wonder if there's any relation.


-edit- this was in response to Supreme saying he was from Windsor :o Didn't realize there was 2 pages when I replied

If I'm not mistaking him and his older/younger brother both play in the NHL and both played for Harvard.

My stance on this has changed a little, I sitll think the NHL should throw the book, desk, chair at him,

But, I'm not against the police getting involved, not that I don't think this is worthy, but it opens a can of worms for future situations.

[The Outlaw]

Unless moore takes a turn for the worst. Anyone know his status?

He ****ed up his vertabrae pretty bad and had a concussion.

They said Bertuzzi wouldn't comment on the matter and got his agent to issue an apology.

What a ****up

[The Outlaw]

Oi just read the whole thread :o

From what I saw on ESPN, Bertuzzi suckerpunched him and then Moore went limp and fell down (draw your own conclusions on what caused the injury), and Bertuzzi jumped on him trying to do more damage. Then Moore's teamate jumped on him to try to get him off but one (or two?) more Canucks jumped on him.

SO, let me get this straight, it's the coach's fault for a guy being a cheap artist? Right.

Somehow I don't see the reasoning in that. Blame one man's moronic deed on the coach for not taking him out.

Also here's a link from ESPN.

TORONTO -- Vancouver All-Star Todd Bertuzzi faced a hearing with NHL officials Wednesday to talk about his hit that left Avalanche forward Steve Moore with a broken neck.

Moore, who was hospitalized in Vancouver after Monday's game, will miss the rest of the season. Bertuzzi was suspended indefinitely.


The hearing was delayed until Wednesday afternoon to give both sides more time to prepare, said Gary Meagher, an NHL spokesman.


British Columbia Solicitor General Rich Coleman and Vancouver police are investigating, the second time in four years police have looked into an on-ice hit at an NHL game in the city.


"It doesn't matter what the score was, what the time was, what the place was, what the history was, there's no room in our game for that," Colorado coach Tony Granato said.


Bertuzzi slugged Moore in the side of the head late in the 9-2 Colorado victory. He hit Moore from behind and drove his head into the ice. Moore landed face-first -- with the 245-pound Bertuzzi on top of him -- and lay in a pool of blood for several minutes before he was removed on a stretcher.


"All I'm concerned with is he regain his health," said Pierre Lacroix, Avalanche president and general manager. "All legal matters and all medical matters, I don't want to think about."


Bertuzzi's punch appeared to be retaliation for an open-ice hit Moore delivered to Canucks captain Markus Naslund last month, knocking him out for three games. Vancouver players vowed to get even with Moore for that hit, which wasn't penalized. Enforcer Brad May spoke of a "bounty."


The Canucks didn't go after Moore in last week's rematch in Denver, a 5-5 tie attended by NHL commissioner Gary Bettman. Naslund said he didn't believe Bertuzzi planned to hurt Moore.


"He tried to do something he thought was right for his team, to challenge someone," Naslund said. "He wanted to make a point that you don't go out and hit our players."


Bertuzzi's punch and its aftermath sent shock waves through the league, with players condemning his actions and calling for tough penalties.


"As NHL players, we get fired up and sometimes do stupid things on the ice, but nobody wants to see injuries to the extent of Moore's," Detroit Red Wings veteran Brendan Shanahan said.


Even the NHL's so-called goons were appalled.


"It doesn't matter what your name is, this is not right," said the Calgary Flames' Krzysztof Oliwa, a well-traveled fighter. "This is not hockey, this is being cheap."


Wayne Gretzky said it was an example of something that can happen in a sport that often turns violent.


"It's a very emotional game and you can quickly lose your temper and lose your focus," the Hall of Famer said in Lakeland, Fla., where he was watching the Toronto-Detroit game.


"What happened was wrong, and I am sure that nobody feels worse about it than Todd."


In February 2000, former Boston Bruin Marty McSorley was charged for hitting then-Vancouver Canuck Donald Brashear with his stick. McSorley was convicted of assault with a weapon, but he received an 18-month conditional discharge, meaning no jail time and no criminal record after probation.


The league suspended him for a year, ending his 17-year NHL career.


When Moore's condition improves, he'll be transferred to Craig Hospital in Denver and evaluated by neurosurgeons, the Avalanche said.


"Steve knows he has the support of the entire Avalanche family and hockey fans throughout the world," Lacroix said.


Vancouver general manager Brian Burke said Bertuzzi was "too distraught" to attend Tuesday's news conference, but the Canucks right wing tried to contact Moore at the hospital.


"That, to me, shows the sincerity more than any statement that we could issue," said Burke, who will fly to Toronto to be with Bertuzzi at his hearing Wednesday.


Bertuzzi was an All-Star last season when he was fifth in the league in scoring. This year, he was an All-Star again and has 60 points, 23rd in the league.


"If most people knew how upset Todd was by the result of what happened they would have a different view on things," said teammate Trevor Linden, also president of the NHL Players' Association.

[Yashamaga]

Come on Cheeba

If it was Thornton that did it, I would be the first to admit what he did was completely bullshit
This IS hockey, but cheap-shotting a guy like he did was completely wrong. He DESERVES jail time. He won't get it, but he deserves it. Moore has a broken ****ing NECK.

I know Bertuzzi didn't mean for it to go that far but it did and he has to pay.

He just wrecked Moore's career and laid a huge blow to his because some say that he might get the rest of this season and all of next season (whenever it is). So if there is a holdout then he'll be 2 + years older then he was.

He also ruined Vancouver's shot at the cup. Without him, they can't be considered a top team with the Avs and Wings ect., NO WAY can they win without him.

[samichna]

So, Yash, let's say in baseball, a pitcher is planning on intentionally hitting a batter, in retaliation for what the other team's pitcher did in the inning before.

The pitch gets away from him, and hits the batter in the head, giving him a concussion, and fracturing his skull.

Does he deserve jail time?

[VonErich Lives]

So, Yash, let's say in baseball, a pitcher is planning on intentionally hitting a batter, in retaliation for what the other team's pitcher did in the inning before.

The pitch gets away from him, and hits the batter in the head, giving him a concussion, and fracturing his skull.

Does he deserve jail time?

This is my concern, where does "intent" come in and who decides...

Anyone know what happened there was a college or minor league pitcher who had a batter timing his warmup and threw at him (while he was in the on-deck circle and hurt the guy bad). That being said, the "normal" would have been to throw at the guy when he was at bat.

But, who decide intent.

What about a fight, where one player gets the better and the other finally turtles, once the other person is in a defensive position it goes from "self-defense" to "attack"...

Thats the only reason I'm not keen on seeing the cops getting involved (yeah, I switched on this one).

[Yashamaga]

Bertuzzi still meant to hurt him, no doubt about it. You can't compare throwing and punching though; one you have total control of and the other you just don't

[BlackRavyyn]

If I'm not mistaking him and his older/younger brother both play in the NHL and both played for Harvard.

My stance on this has changed a little, I sitll think the NHL should throw the book, desk, chair at him,

But, I'm not against the police getting involved, not that I don't think this is worthy, but it opens a can of worms for future situations.

<font color=seablue><i>Not too sure on the older brother playing in the NHL, but I do know that the Moore brothers are from Harvard...

Just thought I'd add that to the discussion :y:</i></font>

[The Icon of Elisim]

I believe that Moore has two brothers, one with the Rangers the other with the Penguins.

[Arashi Kage]

I believe that Moore has two brothers, one with the Rangers the other with the Penguins.


Yeah, I saw that picture in the Sun this morning at work. The one on the Pens had something happen to him (I forget what it is), so he's not in the NHL anymore.

[The Icon of Elisim]

I think that TSN said he had concusion problems for his career

[VonErich Lives]

Bertuzzi still meant to hurt him, no doubt about it. You can't compare throwing and punching though; one you have total control of and the other you just don't

Wait, so when you throw a punch you don't mean to hurt someone?

(Yash, LB was talking about this on WAAF yesterday).

Everytime you put someone into the boards the goal isn't to say hello, it's to hurt them, cross checks, fights, etc... the goal is always to cause damage, so to invovle the cops on one case, means to involve them on every case.

Then would be football, when a WR goes accross the middle and Rodney Harrison puts a legal hit on them, the goal is to cause pain, so the guy doesn't want to go across the middle again.

[Adder]

Considering other players have sucker punched other players before this incident I believe that the way some of you guys are going on is ridiculous. Same as the American media. All these "experts" weighing in their opinion. Shut up already, hockey has inherint risks, and by stepping on the ice you acknowledge that. No one expects to have their neck broke, but this happening isn't simply Bertuzzi's fault. The entire NHL and NHLPA bear some of the blame for letting the sport get to this level and only now crying foul when someone is hurt so badly.

[VonErich Lives]

Considering other players have sucker punched other players before this incident I believe that the way some of you guys are going on is ridiculous. Same as the American media. All these "experts" weighing in their opinion. Shut up already, hockey has inherint risks, and by stepping on the ice you acknowledge that. No one expects to have their neck broke, but this happening isn't simply Bertuzzi's fault. The entire NHL and NHLPA bear some of the blame for letting the sport get to this level and only now crying foul when someone is hurt so badly.

I still don't see how you go from a hard hitting game that alows fighting to cheap dirty shots...

Anyway, the league has suspended him for the season and playoffs and will review it next season, as to if/when he is reinstated.

[The Outlaw]

Yeah just read that he's suspended for season and playoffs.

They also fined the canucks 250,000 dollars.

[Heyman]

Yeah just read that he's suspended for season and playoffs.

They also fined the canucks 250,000 dollars.

I wouldn't mind seeing the Canucks trade Bertuzzi at the end of the season (assuming that Bertuzzi becomes available to play next season).

Canucks can get another solid D-Man and some other sh</>it.

[The Outlaw]

Yeah I agree.

[Splaya]

Official word out of ESPN is that he is suspended for the remainder of the season and the playoffs and then must apply for reinstatement next year in August or September and the league will decide then. If they do not think he is ready to be back then he will be suspended indefinitely. As was stated before the Canucks have also been fined 250,000 dollars


I totally agree with the length and reinstatement parts of the suspension. The NHL did this in a timely manner and did not give itself a black eye and sure as hell proved it is not a joke. They will be a joke though when they lockout next year but that's another story for another time.

[VonErich Lives]

my only concern is the word is, his reinstatement depends on the condition of moore, and I don't think the penalty should be on the "Result" but the action... What if he did the same thing but the guy walked away?

It's kinda like (not sure if the NHL still does it) the penalty would increase if you drew blood and you'd see players picking at their lip to get blood.

[Splaya]

So ur telling me he picked at his face until he drew blood while coming down?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

lol @ Morcheeba comparing this to Tucker on Peca, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

[The Icon of Elisim]

That suspension is fair I'd say. I'm just surprised that the NHL had the guts to go through with it. Rating are awful and the Bertuzzi thing did give them some press, and any publicity is good press. If they had let him play in the post season it could have given the games some attention, especially if it was against the Avs.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Good thing he's gone, nice to see they're finally taking this shit seriously.

[Heyman]

That suspension is fair I'd say. I'm just surprised that the NHL had the guts to go through with it. Rating are awful and the Bertuzzi thing did give them some press, and any publicity is good press. If they had let him play in the post season it could have given the games some attention, especially if it was against the Avs.

Only a douchebag like Vince McMahon would think about 'ratings' and 'publicity' as opposed to sticking by 'what's right'.

[Adder]

my only concern is the word is, his reinstatement depends on the condition of moore, and I don't think the penalty should be on the "Result" but the action... What if he did the same thing but the guy walked away?

[...]

Um, yeah. That's part of what I said, that you disagreed with.

Let me reiterate, this isn’t the first time someone's been sucker punched, or hit with a stick, or whatever...


ME Earlier
The entire NHL and NHLPA bear some of the blame for letting the sport get to this level and only now crying foul when someone is hurt so badly.

[The Outlaw]

A cheap shot is a cheap shot, not the NHL's fault that some people are chicken shits.

[BCWWF]

A cheap shot is one thing, a cheap shot that breaks someones neck is something else.

You can compare an elbow to the gut while scrumming at the boards the same type of thing as full out punching someone int he back of the head and then falling on them.

[AlphaBean]

Last season I didn't watch much hockey at all, except when the Wild beat the 'nucks in the playoffs. Then, I saw Bertuzzi beat the living shit out of everyone who came near him. And when I came on message boards, I saw people doing the :love: Bertuzzi :love: thing.

Had Moore not had his head bent down (:wtf: ) the way he did, Bertuzzi would have likely just gotten a penalty, or a short suspension. Moore tried to break his fall with his face... I'm not saying it's his fault, but knowing how to fall is usually the difference between a broken nose, and a broken neck. It's a major rule in sport.

I haven't read the thread, sorry, but I've glanced and seen people say this in other words... I think Bertuzzi did what was in his power, and that's to abuse another player. To be fair and consistent, to prevent anything like this from happening again, all cheap shots should result in an extended suspension.

Just think about it -- this was in retaliation to Moore's hit on what's his name. Had he been suspended for that hit, he wouldn't have broken his neck.

Don't bitch at me for saying that, I don't think it's right, even though it is true. But honestly, you have to draw a line. It's like legalizing drunk driving, unless you get into an accident and hurt somebody, then it's illegal. :nono:

[BCWWF]

Good points made by AlphaBean. As the time passes since the incident, I am beginning to see it more clearly, and I am sure that if Moore wasn't severely injured Bertuzzi would only have gotton a few games. Inconsistancy.

[VonErich Lives]

So ur telling me he picked at his face until he drew blood while coming down?

LMAO... no, was giving examples of how th NHL rules.

They seem to rule more on the result then the intent.

IE: stick you to the jaw it's a penalty, I stick you to the jaw and draw blood it'se worse.

[VonErich Lives]

Um, yeah. That's part of what I said, that you disagreed with.

Let me reiterate, this isn’t the first time someone's been sucker punched, or hit with a stick, or whatever...

Can't blame the NHL. There are rules, he broke them.

Figting and hitting has always been part of the NHL, (ok, brief time in the mid 90's they tried getting rid of it).

But there is a difference between hard hitting and fighting and cheap shots.

[The Icon of Elisim]

Only a douchebag like Vince McMahon would think about 'ratings' and 'publicity' as opposed to sticking by 'what's right'.

There are a lot of people like Vince McMahon in the television industry.

Plus the world does revolve around money, something that the NHL needs

[da_king]

<font color="#ccffcc">
i'm sure the media outrage had a large part to play in the suspension, the league doesn't want to look bad and by leaving it open-ended they can prety much please everyone by saying it could be longer. laying that fine on the team is ridiculous, especially when you consider that hitchcock himself came out and said that "havlat will eat his lunch" and of course the resulting brawl the following game. seems like the league just makes up stuff as they go along, they don't have any concrete guidelines to go by just whatever prescedent was set previously and going by that it should've been 12 games. players have had careers ended by cheap shots that reulted in less of a suspension but of course the nhl is just worried about what sensationalist media types are saying, so they make an example out of somebody in order to suck up to them. oh well they've set a new prescedent so they better stick by it but we all know that's not gonna happen.

</font>

[Adder]

A cheap shot is one thing, a cheap shot that breaks someones neck is something else.



Are you implying Bertuzzi meant to break his neck?

[VonErich Lives]

<font color="#ccffcc">
i'm sure the media outrage had a large part to play in the suspension, the league doesn't want to look bad and by leaving it open-ended they can prety much please everyone by saying it could be longer. laying that fine on the team is ridiculous, especially when you consider that hitchcock himself came out and said that "havlat will eat his lunch" and of course the resulting brawl the following game. seems like the league just makes up stuff as they go along, they don't have any concrete guidelines to go by just whatever prescedent was set previously and going by that it should've been 12 games. players have had careers ended by cheap shots that reulted in less of a suspension but of course the nhl is just worried about what sensationalist media types are saying, so they make an example out of somebody in order to suck up to them. oh well they've set a new prescedent so they better stick by it but we all know that's not gonna happen.

</font>

You don't compare this to the McSorley incident? if not, why? because of the stick?

Heck, most people say in the McSorley case he was swinging the stick at his shoulder not his head...

I think thats what they looked at for guidelines... but, the NHL making it up as they go, wouldn't be to far off either.

[Adder]

Good points made by AlphaBean. As the time passes since the incident, I am beginning to see it more clearly, and I am sure that if Moore wasn't severely injured Bertuzzi would only have gotton a few games. Inconsistancy.

OK, glad to see you "see this". This is the part that I'm maddest about.

[da_king]

<font color="#ccffcc">

vel i compare it most to the matt johnson incident because that was a sucker punch from behind which caused a player to hit his head on the ice. i beleive that player had to retire as a result (forget his name at the moment though) and i think that was a twelve game suspension. what mcsorely did was a stick swinging incident which is less similiar. if the league decides they all of a sudden want to crack down then they need to let the players know that such and such an infraction will result in x number of games missed rather then waiting for something to happen and then guesing on a number.
</font>

[Adder]

Beukeboom

[Guest #1]

The biggest problem I have with the situation is that after the Naslund hit, fans in Vancouver were screaming for Moore's blood. After the first game back, there was so much pressure on call-in shows and on the street sentiment that the Canucks let it go. This put so much pressure on media to keep it in the face of the team. Unfortunately, we got what we asked for, In Spades. Then the fans turned on Bertuzzi and wanted to run him out of town. I don't think the fans of Vancouver can look at this guilt free, and try to take the high road. Bertuzzi, the team and the fans were all culpable and the punishment the league sent down is probably just for all parties.

[BlackRavyyn]

<font color="#ccffcc">

vel i compare it most to the matt johnson incident because that was a sucker punch from behind which caused a player to hit his head on the ice. i beleive that player had to retire as a result (forget his name at the moment though) and i think that was a twelve game suspension. what mcsorely did was a stick swinging incident which is less similiar. if the league decides they all of a sudden want to crack down then they need to let the players know that such and such an infraction will result in x number of games missed rather then waiting for something to happen and then guesing on a number.
</font>

Good point da king :D

And the player's name is Jeff Beukeboom...

[The Outlaw]

Moore did not try to break his fall, as you could plainly see his whole body went limp.

[VonErich Lives]

The biggest problem I have with the situation is that after the Naslund hit, fans in Vancouver were screaming for Moore's blood. After the first game back, there was so much pressure on call-in shows and on the street sentiment that the Canucks let it go. This put so much pressure on media to keep it in the face of the team. Unfortunately, we got what we asked for, In Spades. Then the fans turned on Bertuzzi and wanted to run him out of town. I don't think the fans of Vancouver can look at this guilt free, and try to take the high road. Bertuzzi, the team and the fans were all culpable and the punishment the league sent down is probably just for all parties.

Hasn't Naslund gone on record a few times that it was a clean hit?

That he (Naslund) was off balance, but it was a clean hit?

(I never saw it, but everything I've heard it was clean).

[Guest #1]

Hasn't Naslund gone on record a few times that it was a clean hit?

That he (Naslund) was off balance, but it was a clean hit?

(I never saw it, but everything I've heard it was clean).

Naslund did say the hit was clean. Granted it was opportunistic, but it was a clean hockey hit. Naslund took much of the blame himself for putting himself in a vunerable situation. All I can say is, he's a classy player.

[BCWWF]

Yeah, I heard that the hit wasn't even that bad. Also Naslund > Bertuzzi

[da_king]

<font color="#ccffcc">
being in this market i can tell you without a doubt that naslund really is a classy guy. his interviews are usually pretty good without all the cliche's that a lot of athletes tend to spew out and he comes across as really genuine and honest in his comments. also regarding whether the hit on naslund was clean or not, it doesn't matter in the eyes of team mates, they want to send the mesage that their star player is off limits and maybe scare people into not hitting him as hard the next time around.


</font>

[VonErich Lives]

Cam Neely went out of his way to say the hit from Ulf was clean....

[road doggy dogg]

<font color="#ccffcc">
being in this market i can tell you without a doubt that naslund really is a classy guy. his interviews are usually pretty good without all the cliche's that a lot of athletes tend to spew out and he comes across as really genuine and honest in his comments. also regarding whether the hit on naslund was clean or not, it doesn't matter in the eyes of team mates, they want to send the mesage that their star player is off limits and maybe scare people into not hitting him as hard the next time around.
</font>

Do you think they sent the right message though? IMO, another team will pick up from this, "Hey, if we target their star players, they will commit stupid penalties, so we should try and aggravate them more", or something to that extent. I don't know though, I can see your point.

[The Outlaw]

Yeah the hit on naslund was clean

[da_king]

Do you think they sent the right message though? IMO, another team will pick up from this, "Hey, if we target their star players, they will commit stupid penalties, so we should try and aggravate them more", or something to that extent. I don't know though, I can see your point.



<font color="#ccffcc">
yeah they did send the right mesage and i suppose it is hard for me to be truley objective. it just seems that they wait for something to happen before sending a mesage instead being proactive in preventing such matters as well as being inconsistent with their punishments.


</font>