The Last two pre-Cena Raws' ratings...

[Kane Knight]

Okay, I just saw the ratings for Monday Night Raw on the 21st, and it was two hours of 3 and 3. The week before, it was hours of 3 and 3.1. And interesting note is that not only were the numbers up there, but more people were watching (As in, not just a higher percentage were tuning in, but a higher number of people were watching in general).

I say Pre-Cena because I think it's interesting that the ratings went up when they did, despite no actual promotion of Cena's return, though I'm sure WWE will somehow tie the ratings boost to him.

[Dave Youell]

Well it's obvious to me that Cena = Ratings

[Kane Knight]

His drawing power is so great that people tune in for weeks beforehand without knowing why! :D

[Blue Demon]

His drawing power is so great that people ALYAAAAAAAAALYALYA

[Ninti the Mad]

I was enjoying Raw pre-Cena.

I dont want to go back to the Superman Cena Raw Show.

[Kane Knight]

I liked the last couple of raws, but not enough to go back to watching it regularly.

[Ninti the Mad]

So do you all think this is a critical junction in RAW programming?

As KK stated, the ratings are finally turning around. I started watching more avidly when Cena was out. It was a fresh change.

Now I am worried. I am still going to watch and hope that Cena was just a scapegoat to me to cover up some of the WWE's other issues. If Cena comes back, and they keep other programs that are interesting, I hope it will overshadow the cons and still be an enjoyable experience to watch.

[Kane Knight]

I'm not sure Cena alone is enough to counteract things.

However, if they change the way the show is booked, it probably will.

[The Optimist]

Again, the time Cena was out for wasn't just No-Cena time. Jeff Hardy made major developments, and Jericho came back. They were(/are depending on how cynical you are about Cena) making small steps to improve the product. There also may or may not be some variable to the whole WWE HD launch recently.

And for the record, I'd watch the last three Raws but didn't even try last Monday.

[Hanso Amore]

If I have to deal with Monday Night Cena again, Im out.

This is their chance to end his superman push, it obviously didnt work. he is as over as he will get, so they need to turn him heel or push him lik every other main eventer. HHH has managed to stay out of the central role while being the most over wrestler, now Cena needs to.

[Shaggy]

If I have to deal with Monday Night Cena again, Im out.

This is their chance to end his superman push, it obviously didnt work. he is as over as he will get, so they need to turn him heel or push him lik every other main eventer. HHH has managed to stay out of the central role while being the most over wrestler, now Cena needs to.

:y::y::y::yes:

I loved watching Raw while Cena was gone...I always tuned in on time and loved what i was watching. Even though I hate Jeff Hardy, I began liking the fact that he was finally getting a push because he kept it entertaining...

The night after Rumble I knew Raw was gonna start off with Cena so right away I didnt tune in till 30 minutes after it began. I just cant stand Cena anymore.

[Team Sheep]

Yeah Cena should step out of the limelight a bit. He should do a role like he did around Vengeance 2006, when it was Edge and RVD feuding for the title and then Cena was in a subplot with Sabu. Just need a fresh change in the title picture instead of same old Cena. He'd be more than tolerable for me if he was in a major non-title feud, with Kennedy or something.

[Dave Youell]

Cena should job at NWO, if he doesn't I fear for the rest of this year, I really do.

[Porcupine]

Cena should job at NWO, if he doesn't I fear for the rest of this year, I really do.

I think this year, NWO really fits the name of the pay per view. Its Cena's return pay per view and further cements to us the fans that there is NO WAY OUT of Super Cena. I think theres actually a chance of Orton winning via cheating to set up Cena/Orton at Mania.

[DaVe]

Where do you get your ratings from, KK?

I usually check this link http://www.100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling/pages/wwf/wwfraw.htm and they appear considerably different to what you've found.

Edit: Nevertheless, the same trend is indicated.

[Stickman]

I was enjoying Raw pre-Cena.

I dont want to go back to the Superman Cena Raw Show.

I agree, I was getting back into the swing of it.

[The Gold Standard]

Although I hate Cena, he does draw ratings. All the older fans tune in to watch him lose and all the younger fans tune in to watch him win. I think that is why the ratings changed.

[Kane Knight]

Where do you get your ratings from, KK?

I usually check this link http://www.100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling/pages/wwf/wwfraw.htm and they appear considerably different to what you've found.

Edit: Nevertheless, the same trend is indicated.

Nielsen Media Research.

Your link charts the dirt sheets ratings, which NEVER match up with the ones that NMR releases publically.

[El Fangel]

I have not watched a full Raw or Smackdonw in nearly 3 years now.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Although I hate Cena, he does draw ratings. All the older fans tune in to watch him lose and all the younger fans tune in to watch him win. I think that is why the ratings changed.

I disagree with this, although I normally agree with you.

All the older fans don't give a fuck, and if they do tune in, it's out of habit and hope that things will change. John Cena is not exactly a "Rowdy" Roddy Piper.

Also, what KK has posted is proof that the trend started way before Cena was even advertised. I think the best explanation for this would be the Royal Rumble. The Rumble Match itself is sort of a draw, and Orton/Hardy was being built up well (Hardy's Steel Cage Match against Umaga seems to be the event which turned ratings around). JBL and Jericho's feud, while a misuse of both men, in my opinion, was also really well done. It was simple, and it was effective.

I think these three things together helped boost the ratings. Jeff Hardy's suicide attempts and the Rumble probably being the biggest two.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It'll be interesting to see this week's RAW ratings. A lot of John Cena fans might tune in, and we are still on the Road to WrestleMania, but I know a lot of people who were pissed off with the results. I'm not just being anti-Cena here, but a lot of people I know heard he won and their response was "Are you fucking kidding me?" They were not impressed at all, so I doubt they will make the effort to tune in.

You also have Jeff Hardy losing to Randy Orton. It got to the point where Hardy has such fan support, that a lot of marks might have given up when Orton retained very cleanly. Especially if they were anti-Cena.

It'll certainly be interesting to see.

[Kane Knight]

Although I hate Cena, he does draw ratings. All the older fans tune in to watch him lose and all the younger fans tune in to watch him win. I think that is why the ratings changed.

That's why ratings were the lowest they'd been in years under Cena, right?

The ratings changed before Cena was on TV, and before he was announced. Remember, he was a surprise for the Rumble, and one of the successful ones of the last few years. Cena drawing in the fans in this instance is pretty much completely logically incongruous, since the fans would have needed to know he was coming back, and they didn't.

Now, 'Noid brings up a good point in the Rumble buildup being enough to make a difference. That's the difference between a plausible reason for ratings changing and an implausible one. The prospect of the Rumble, being hyped, is a potential reason for people to tune in. A guy who won't even redebut for a couple of weeks and who is not advertised is not.

Ratings didn't go down with Cena gone, which would be the case were he a draw. The only major changes in ratings came at Christmas and New Years, hardly times where the ratings stay up.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I wonder how the WWE justifies that John Cena is good for business when he does not have any noticeable effect on the ratings (other than, arguably, a negative one)?

Does the WWE actually believe into its own hype?

[Kane Knight]

Wishful thinking.

[NeanderCarl]

Plus, the fact that the Rumble delivered an entertaining show, plus a little shock, made sure those who watched the Rumble made sure to tune in the next night. I'm sure even big WWE fans don't watch EVERY week.

As they find it so difficult to draw in casual and non-fans, they gotta deliver a show to make sure those that DO actually watch find the product unmissable.

[Kane Knight]

Well, Nielsen won't release the post-Rumble ratings until Wednesday, but I wouldn't doubt people tuned in just to see how shit turned out.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Well, Nielsen won't release the post-Rumble ratings until Wednesday, but I wouldn't doubt people tuned in just to see how shit turned out.

And you know Cena is going to get credit for any benefits that come from that.

[The Gold Standard]

I wonder how the WWE justifies that John Cena is good for business when he does not have any noticeable effect on the ratings (other than, arguably, a negative one)?

Does the WWE actually believe into its own hype?

It is because he sells a lot of merch. It seems like everywhere you look you see a Cena shirt. At least to me that is what it seems like.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It is because he sells a lot of merch. It seems like everywhere you look you see a Cena shirt. At least to me that is what it seems like.

I've never seen one ever. Granted, I am in Australia, where little kids don't even like Cena, though. I've seen a few Batista shirts, but I've never seen a Cena shirt.

Does the WWE release merchandise sales to the public? Is there any statistic on how much merchandise Cena moves? I'm sure he does move a lot, but I don't know if that alone is enough to justify his position on the card. Didn't The Hurricane sell a lot of masks?

[Heros Welcome]

There are as many Cena shirts as there are boos for him. I mean even if the guy is considered a gold mine in merch, you have to take into consideration the people who friggin hate him. I thought the demographic they desperately want is that 18-35. Those are the people who are booing the shit out of him.

[Kane Knight]

The first ratings since Cena came back were 3.1 and 3.5, with no rise in the first hour and about a half a million increase on the second.

John Cena will take all the credit for this, of course.

[JT]

I was into his return until he magically got Mark Henry into the feud to beat him in an arm wrestling contest.

And I know why they did it...trying to build that Cena arm is better, but I think it would have been better build to say that arm was crap and that Superman was fighting at less than 100%.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The first ratings since Cena came back were 3.1 and 3.5, with no rise in the first hour and about a half a million increase on the second.

John Cena will take all the credit for this, of course.

So Cena did nothing to help ratings? We all know that the second our increase was all for Mark fucking Henry.

[Destor]

They really should make Cena sucks shirts. You know they'd sell.

[Kane Knight]

So Cena did nothing to help ratings? We all know that the second our increase was all for Mark fucking Henry.

Was Mark on last week? I thought that was the main event this week, which is not the first week Cena returned (The numbers I was giving).

[Kane Knight]

Just checked the results, didn't see Mark Henry there.

I blame Steven Richards.

[Kane Knight]

Also, the ME was Cena free, wasn't it?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Just checked the results, didn't see Mark Henry there.

I blame Steven Richards.

Didn't they do an arm wrestling contest?

Was it specifically the main event that drew? If so: Chris Jericho, Shawn Michaels and Jeff Hardy deserve the shared credit, as well as there being no Triple H or no John Cena.

[El Fangel]

No Trips and no Cena.

Wow. Vince's dick must be big for it to go in three guys mouths when they get a main event.

:wave: Noid.

[Kane Knight]

Didn't they do an arm wrestling contest?


This week, not last. You are talking about a different week, as I've already explained.

Recap:

Last week: Ratings are in. Far as I can tell (reading from results--Someone who watched the show, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), Cena wasn't even in the second hour.

This week: Cena arm wrestled the Negro Buffet. NMR hasn't released data for it. They release this info next Wednesday.

[Kane Knight]

The ratings for the February Fourth episode of Raw (The one Alienoid was speaking of) are in, and the ratings are down to the same level they were a couple of months ago. With Cena in the Main Event, Raw lost almost a million viewers in one hour. Now, it'd be ridiculous to blame it all on Cena, but apparently we were to believe the spike after the Rumble was not because of the Rumble so much, but because of Cena. Raw ratings were 3.1 and 3.0, losing about a million viewers on the top hour and nearly half a million viewers on the lower hour.

[KingofOldSchool]

The ratings for the February Fourth episode of Raw (The one Alienoid was speaking of) are in, and the ratings are down to the same level they were a couple of months ago. With Cena in the Main Event, Raw lost almost a million viewers in one hour. Now, it'd be ridiculous to blame it all on Cena, but apparently we were to believe the spike after the Rumble was not because of the Rumble so much, but because of Cena. Raw ratings were 3.1 and 3.0, losing about a million viewers on the top hour and nearly half a million viewers on the lower hour.

They will blame on the fact that at 10 pm EST, all of the Cena fans will be forced to go to bed by their parents hence the drop.

To counteract they will feature all of Cena's segments during the first 45 minutes.

[Kane Knight]

That would be sweet. I'd be able to watch the last hour of Raw without wanting to gouge my eyes out. Wait. We'd still have DX Lite and a shitload of other unwatchable crap, including Swog/McMahon.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The ratings for the February Fourth episode of Raw (The one Alienoid was speaking of) are in, and the ratings are down to the same level they were a couple of months ago. With Cena in the Main Event, Raw lost almost a million viewers in one hour. Now, it'd be ridiculous to blame it all on Cena, but apparently we were to believe the spike after the Rumble was not because of the Rumble so much, but because of Cena. Raw ratings were 3.1 and 3.0, losing about a million viewers on the top hour and nearly half a million viewers on the lower hour.

So Cena lost viewers? Haha, why does the WWE continue to push him so hard?

He can't make that much in merchandise sales, can he? Are there numbers published on how much merchandise Cena moves? Is that enough to alone justify him being pushed so fucking ridiculously?

[Kane Knight]

Partially because I doubt shareholders pay much attention to ratings, and Cena makes a shitload in merchandise. That and he is a good "public face" for the company.

Beyond that, I seriously doubt Cena actually lost a million viewers or anything. I mean, I'm betting Cena winning pissed some people off, but I think it's more reasonable to assume that the Rumble drew in those numbers, which peaked the Monday after the Rumble, and with the Rumble over and the results delivered, people lost interest.

I just can't imagine Cena being the reason for a 900K+ drop in one week. Still, with Cena and Mizark in the main event, one does wonder....

[Mr. Nerfect]

Partially because I doubt shareholders pay much attention to ratings, and Cena makes a shitload in merchandise. That and he is a good "public face" for the company.

Beyond that, I seriously doubt Cena actually lost a million viewers or anything. I mean, I'm betting Cena winning pissed some people off, but I think it's more reasonable to assume that the Rumble drew in those numbers, which peaked the Monday after the Rumble, and with the Rumble over and the results delivered, people lost interest.

I just can't imagine Cena being the reason for a 900K+ drop in one week. Still, with Cena and Mizark in the main event, one does wonder....

I kind of can, to be honest. :-\

I'm sure there were other reasons, true, but this at least sort of proves that John Cena is not a draw, at least. Do ratings normally fluctuate after the Rumble? They're usually pretty consistently high as things head into WrestleMania, aren't they?

I'm a supporter of Orton vs. Cena being done at No Way Out, because it doesn't feel like a WrestleMania match to me (I care about neither guy), but do you think that maybe blowing the load instead of going long with this might have had a negative effect on the ratings?

[Kane Knight]

Well, my stored data only goes back to August 06, so I don't know if this is a trend or not, but last year, it remained pretty steady after the Rumble in 07. This should certainly dismiss any notion that Cena is a draw.

[Kane Knight]

So we all know Cena's a draw, right? Well, Since the Second Coming, Raw's Ratings have dropped to 2.9 (Both hours on the 11th drew the same rating). 'Noid's right, ratings usually go up and stay higher between the Rumble and Wrestlemania. The hours lost about the same, near 200,000 viewers each, which now puts the total at over a million easily.

So, since Cena's a draw, what exactly is holding ratings down? :shifty:

[DaVe]

Well, Cena didn't become champ would be one.

It is odd, though. I haven't considered Cena as draw for a few years now, even though some in the WWE believe he is. Ratings were absolutely pathetic late last year while he was away and they've slightly improved so far this year to pretty bad, with their highest rating Raw the one where Cena returned at a pay per view that was decent, but not anything special.

Now the Raw after No Way Out, a very good pay per view - one of the best I can remember for a while with a mainstream angle beginning - and the ratings were down. Cena didn't win a title at it while he won the title of Royal Rumble winner at the Rumble. Perhaps Cena is worth more than I thought...

But then I remembered the ratings while Edge was champ - early 2006 - and ratings were some of the best they had since 2002, which indicated people didn't want Cena.

So yeah, this doesn't make much sense to me. All I can conclude is that the meaning of ratings - and why they change - isn't simple. Which others have probably already worked out.

Also, again I use this http://www.100megsfree4.com/wiawrestling/pages/wwf/wwfraw.htm page as a reference - which KK rightly pointed out was inflated and inaccurate but the key is that it is consistently inflated and inaccurate to the same degree - this is the worst ratings start to the year/road to Wrestlemania since 1997.

[Kane Knight]

Ratings started to come down the week after the Rumble. In all probability, ratings were high only because people tuned in to see what happened "last night," and people tuned out. It makes sense, because the ratings were getting hot before the Rumble (Relatively speaking) and Cena was in no way hyped.

So what changed? Well, there's Cena, and not much else. So it's kind of hard to believe he's not responsible (I don't literally mean Cena, but the position he's in) when everything else is relatively stable.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Ratings started to come down the week after the Rumble. In all probability, ratings were high only because people tuned in to see what happened "last night," and people tuned out. It makes sense, because the ratings were getting hot before the Rumble (Relatively speaking) and Cena was in no way hyped.

So what changed? Well, there's Cena, and not much else. So it's kind of hard to believe he's not responsible (I don't literally mean Cena, but the position he's in) when everything else is relatively stable.

This is really the only logical explanation. Although, maybe it's my relative dislike for the man as a performer, but Triple H has also been rising to attention again. In place of Jeff Hardy, John Cena and Triple H might have both been sharing in the negative effect on the ratings?

[Kane Knight]

It is possible.