C.M. Punk is proof that WWE is not completely retarded.

[James Steele]

They are building him up perfectly. They are building him like they built-up Rock, Austin, and Triple H. He is working his way up the ladder in WWE and is becoming a legitimate force in the eyes of fans. I can see CM Punk headling WrestleMania XXVI.

[Kane Knight]

He outpopped DX. He doesn't need to be built up in the eyes of the fans.

[IC Champion]

Well if he outpopped DX...

[Kane Knight]

In 6 weeks, this board will be flooded with people bitching about how Punk is getting wasted or whatever.

[James Steele]

He outpopped DX.

That statement would mean so much more if it was 1997.

[James Steele]

In 6 weeks, this board will be flooded with people bitching about how Punk is getting wasted or whatever.

If he jobs to Chavo in a donkey-punch pinto bean deathmatch, then yes he is being wasted. WWE hasn't done anything stupid with CM Punk, and that is the key. You don't have to give him an uberpush to get him over if you just don't put him in stupid shit.

[Xero]

He recently lost. Therefore, he's being completely buried and there is no hope to a return.

[Kane Knight]

He recently lost. Therefore, he's being completely buried and there is no hope to a return.

Eeeeeexactly.

[Mr. Nerfect]

In 6 weeks, this board will be flooded with people bitching about how Punk is getting wasted or whatever.

You do realise that people were bitching about CM Punk being wasted because he was being built-up as undefeated, and he lost to Hardcore Holly, right? Yeah, that was absolutely brilliant on the WWE's part.

You do realise that despite being arguably the most over man in the match, he was jobbed out first in the Elimination Chamber to...well, Hardcore Holly again, right? Once again, cutting the fans interest in the match in half (and then getting rid of it completely when RVD went two spots later) was obviously a brilliant move.

You do realise that when CM Punk, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Matt Hardy and Jeff Hardy were standing in the ring, the fans chose to chant for CM Punk, right? I don't know how anyone can argue against this. Sure, that doesn't mean that the fans didn't like DX or The Hardys, but it does heavily imply that they were far more interested in CM Punk.

You don't realise these things? Then perhaps you should hush?

[GD]

RAW needs to be punk'd.

[Heros Welcome]

RAW needs to be punk'd.

As much as I would love for Punk to be on RAW, it shouldn't happen for a while. Right now he is being built in ECW which is ok. After mania in the draft I was expecting him to be a part of the SD roster full time since it seems less political, but I really don't see how they can take him off ECW. He is the only reason people tune in. I'm not just saying that just because I'm a big fan, I'm saying it because he is the only damn face on the program...which is sad.

[.44 Magdalene]

You do realise that people were bitching about CM Punk being wasted because he was being built-up as undefeated, and he lost to Hardcore Holly, right? Yeah, that was absolutely brilliant on the WWE's part.

You do realise that despite being arguably the most over man in the match, he was jobbed out first in the Elimination Chamber to...well, Hardcore Holly again, right? Once again, cutting the fans interest in the match in half (and then getting rid of it completely when RVD went two spots later) was obviously a brilliant move.

You do realise that when CM Punk, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Matt Hardy and Jeff Hardy were standing in the ring, the fans chose to chant for CM Punk, right? I don't know how anyone can argue against this. Sure, that doesn't mean that the fans didn't like DX or The Hardys, but it does heavily imply that they were far more interested in CM Punk.

You don't realise these things? Then perhaps you should hush?

"Getting a push" and "Winning every single match that you're ever involved in, ever, forever" are different things. I'll agree that the EC was bad booking, but you can't cry foul everytime the man doesn't totally dominate a match.

[Kane Knight]

"Getting a push" and "Winning every single match that you're ever involved in, ever, forever" are different things. I'll agree that the EC was bad booking, but you can't cry foul everytime the man doesn't totally dominate a match.

And the IWC does.

[Chavo Classic]

Simply moving Punk over to Raw would only accomplish to kill ECW, and shoot their load early with potentially the next big name in the industry.

IMO, an interpromotional feud between Punk and the RAW champion would be the key to introducing Punk to the mark fanbase that he has yet to acquire.

[BigDaddyCool]

CM Punk needs to take a bath.

[Hanso Amore]

He could come out of this well. Fueding with Chavo, and by proxy, Edge, is going to help get him over on Smackdown. Then if he gets drafted to Raw or SD, he can be a bigger player. No if he ends as just another guy out of this, he is wasted. But this could = a solid push against Edge, and Maybe a MITB win.

[Chavo Classic]

CM Punk needs to take a DRINK AND FUCKING RELAX BRAH.

[Theo Dious]

As much as I don't give half a crap about CM Punkass, they are doing pretty good with pushing him so far.

[Savio]

"My tattoos aren't decorations they're DECLARATIONS!"

[Chavo Classic]

"My tattoos aren't decorations they're DECLARATIONS!"

I declare that I like Pepsi. TAKE THAT ESTABLISHMENT!

[Mr. JL]

I don't like CM Punk.

I don't do drugs, but I also don't need to tattoo it all over my body.

CM Punk is a tool.

[Xero]

If they're going to go somewhere with Punk, they need to take the logical route and put him in the SmackDown! main event for at least a year. Let him build up to the point of dominating the brand and move him over to RAW, where he would be considered the lower tier of the main event.

Allow him to go through guys like Hardy, Orton, Michaels, etc, leading to the big Cena/Punk feud in about 3 years from now (WM27). It's a slow build, yes, but if they do it at this pace he may be able to dethrone Cena in WWE's eyes.

As far as Punk losing to Holly, who gives a fuck? Holly is high in WWE's eyes because of the time he's put in, even if he's terrible in the ring. Punk is going to lose. He's going to lose some matches and some feuds, and that's perfectly fine. If working his way up means losing to Hardcore Holly, who cares? Everyone needs to pay their dues in WWE, whether we like it or not and whether we like who he loses to or not. But just because he loses to someone in the midcard from the fans eyes doesn't mean the end, in fact it could mean for bigger and better things.

And frankly, it did.

Bottom line is that at this point they SHOULDN'T listen to the fans. He's getting good reactions. Fine, roll with it within the confines of logical progression. Don't blow your load just because someone gets a big pop. That has been one of their biggest problems in the past, things which we have bitched about in the past and is ironically what people want now, even though, historically speaking, it would fuck everything up.

[James Steele]

Remember, Triple H lost to Henry O. Godwinn on a PPV and got thrown into pigshit. LOOK AT TRIPLE H NOW!

[James Steele]

:shifty:

[Kane Knight]

I don't like CM Punk.

I don't do drugs, but I also don't need to tattoo it all over my body.

CM Punk is a tool.
:D

[NeanderCarl]

Pushed right, CM Punk could be the next big, mainstream wrestling star.

Then again, pushed right, Funaki could be the next big, mainstream star.

You push anyone right, and they'll make it. WWE and their short memories either keep forgetting how to push new stars, despite their track record, or simply don't give much of a crap about pushing aside the status quo and letting new guys through. They're booking for politics, not for business, as it goes.

As for Punk, the straight-edge gimmick could well strike a chord with a new audience, making Punk a star and sparking off a new boom period. Or it could not.

Problem is, it is always a face who leads a resurgence in the business... every boom has been sparked by a face (oh, come on, the only people who thought the nWo were heels were the trailer park rednecks down south)... but as a face, I have found CM Punk uber-bland, and his matches mostly boring as hell. He doesn't have the face charisma to lead a boom. From footage I've seen, he's a far more proficient heel... but heels never catch on outside the confines of the business. I don't know if I'm really articulating clearly what I'm trying to say here... ah well, ya get meh?

[CharismaInjection]

In WWE's eyes, the only reason Punk has his spot on ECW is cuz there's no one better on the roster.

[NeanderCarl]

Chavo is a better all rounder anyway, so the cream does rise.

[Kane Knight]

In WWE's eyes, the only reason Punk has his spot on ECW is cuz there's no one better on the roster.

Which is pretty much true. He's not so much anything special as he is the most special thing on a rather shitty roster.

[Mr. Nerfect]

"Getting a push" and "Winning every single match that you're ever involved in, ever, forever" are different things. I'll agree that the EC was bad booking, but you can't cry foul everytime the man doesn't totally dominate a match.

That's not what people were doing, though. It doesn't matter to me that Chris Jericho did not beat JBL at the Royal Rumble, for example. What worried me about CM Punk being misused in ECW, was when he lost the undefeated streak (which they were hammering home) to Hardcore Holly of all people. Most agreed that the streak could have been used to really set up an interesting feud between Punk and someone, as well as giving another young guy the rub.

CM Punk did not need to win every single match in 2006, but he should have beaten Hardcore Holly. He also should have eliminated Hardcore Holly in the Extreme Elimination Chamber, rather than the reverse happening.

You can lift what you said about the EC being badly booked, and pretty much place it to anything that happened with CM Punk between Survivor Series '06 and Money in the Bank the next year.

[El Fangel]

That's not what people were doing, though. It doesn't matter to me that Chris Jericho did not beat JBL at the Royal Rumble, for example. What worried me about CM Punk being misused in ECW, was when he lost the undefeated streak (which they were hammering home) to Hardcore Holly of all people. Most agreed that the streak could have been used to really set up an interesting feud between Punk and someone, as well as giving another young guy the rub.

CM Punk did not need to win every single match in 2006, but he should have beaten Hardcore Holly. He also should have eliminated Hardcore Holly in the Extreme Elimination Chamber, rather than the reverse happening.

You can lift what you said about the EC being badly booked, and pretty much place it to anything that happened with CM Punk between Survivor Series '06 and Money in the Bank the next year.

Bobcore is decent, I have always liked him, I think WWE could have had a subplot here, and made it that Bobcore is that one guy that Punk just cant beat, have it out there but not obviously. Then for like Mania or something, get Punk to come out, and say, you know what, I just realized them is a man, who time and again, I have yet to pin, one on one or otherwise, so how about we do it you way, at Mania, a last man standing match.

WWE could put little effort into the subtlety of this, and it could have a BIG payoff, as Bobcore is an excellent hardcore match wrestler, and Punk could make some sick bumps, In the end what I think should happen.

Punk and Hardcore go all out, sickest bumps ever, lots of blading, have punk bleeding bad, and bobcore opened up to (jesus just remembered the table gash) and then almost a double countout, where they save it by using each other to get up, both staggering, they shake their heads, and shake hands, and say "Its enough" as Bobcore walks up the ramp, Punk walks up behind him, and says "Oh one more thing Bob"

*WHACK* Chairshot (sick sounding)

Punk walks to the back as the ref counts to 10, Bob gets up at 8, Punk runs back, hits him again, 9 count, by now Punk is bleeding a puddle, he swings once more, and lays out Bob, he staggers after the ref counts 1 and falls, winning by a second.

He could follow this up in a promo, heavily bandaged sitting in the ring on a chair, saying "Yeah, it took everything I had, and then some, I beat you barely, and I have to admit you are the toughest son of a bitch I have ever seen" Bobcore comes to ring, shakes his hand, and When Punk walks to get out of the ring, Bobcore gets him to turn around *BAM*

[Mr. Nerfect]

That would have been awesome, Fallen Angel, and the WWE could have made Hardcore Holly vs. CM Punk something, but they didn't.

[Mr. Nerfect]

It has also been brought to my attention by the awesomeness that is Heros Welcome that it was RVD pinning CM Punk in the Elimination Chamber. It was, and I remember because I imagine thinking "What a heat killer?" You have one of the two over guys in the match eliminated first by the only other guy in the match who is over, pissing off Punk fans, which i turn could have turned the fans cool towards RVD for the rest of the match. Luckily, RVD wasn't in the match for much longer, because he was eliminated after Hardcore Holly (/sarcasm).

Seriously, awful fucking booking.

[NeanderCarl]

It has also been brought to my attention by the awesomeness that is Heros Welcome that it was RVD pinning CM Punk in the Elimination Chamber. It was, and I remember because I imagine thinking "What a heat killer?" You have one of the two over guys in the match eliminated first by the only other guy in the match who is over, pissing off Punk fans, which i turn could have turned the fans cool towards RVD for the rest of the match. Luckily, RVD wasn't in the match for much longer, because he was eliminated after Hardcore Holly (/sarcasm).

Seriously, awful fucking booking.

You can blame Paul Heyman for that. :shifty:

[NeanderCarl]

Bobcore is decent, I have always liked him, I think WWE could have had a subplot here, and made it that Bobcore is that one guy that Punk just cant beat, have it out there but not obviously. Then for like Mania or something, get Punk to come out, and say, you know what, I just realized them is a man, who time and again, I have yet to pin, one on one or otherwise, so how about we do it you way, at Mania, a last man standing match.

WWE could put little effort into the subtlety of this, and it could have a BIG payoff, as Bobcore is an excellent hardcore match wrestler, and Punk could make some sick bumps, In the end what I think should happen.

Punk and Hardcore go all out, sickest bumps ever, lots of blading, have punk bleeding bad, and bobcore opened up to (jesus just remembered the table gash) and then almost a double countout, where they save it by using each other to get up, both staggering, they shake their heads, and shake hands, and say "Its enough" as Bobcore walks up the ramp, Punk walks up behind him, and says "Oh one more thing Bob"

*WHACK* Chairshot (sick sounding)

Punk walks to the back as the ref counts to 10, Bob gets up at 8, Punk runs back, hits him again, 9 count, by now Punk is bleeding a puddle, he swings once more, and lays out Bob, he staggers after the ref counts 1 and falls, winning by a second.

He could follow this up in a promo, heavily bandaged sitting in the ring on a chair, saying "Yeah, it took everything I had, and then some, I beat you barely, and I have to admit you are the toughest son of a bitch I have ever seen" Bobcore comes to ring, shakes his hand, and When Punk walks to get out of the ring, Bobcore gets him to turn around *BAM*

Not a bad scenario, with the handshake and then the chairshot. I'd have it end there though, rather than Holly keep getting up, that would just milk the moment too much. Have CM Punk smack him with the chair, and just walk to the back without even turning around to check, while the ref is still counting, as if to confidently say "he's done, so i'm outta here".

[Fox]

Pushed right, CM Punk could be the next big, mainstream wrestling star.

Then again, pushed right, Funaki could be the next big, mainstream star.

You push anyone right, and they'll make it. WWE and their short memories either keep forgetting how to push new stars, despite their track record, or simply don't give much of a crap about pushing aside the status quo and letting new guys through. They're booking for politics, not for business, as it goes.

As for Punk, the straight-edge gimmick could well strike a chord with a new audience, making Punk a star and sparking off a new boom period. Or it could not.

Problem is, it is always a face who leads a resurgence in the business... every boom has been sparked by a face (oh, come on, the only people who thought the nWo were heels were the trailer park rednecks down south)... but as a face, I have found CM Punk uber-bland, and his matches mostly boring as hell. He doesn't have the face charisma to lead a boom. From footage I've seen, he's a far more proficient heel... but heels never catch on outside the confines of the business. I don't know if I'm really articulating clearly what I'm trying to say here... ah well, ya get meh?

First of all, your statement about "anyone could be the next big, mainstream star" is ridiculous. You can't honestly believe that. It takes a certain combination of charisma, skill, and a particular look to become a main eventer, let alone a "mainstream star" the likes of Rock, Austin and Hulk Hogan. What in God's name makes you think that anyone could be the next big mainstream star?

Also, the nWo were heels. They might have been cool and done cool shit, but they were freakin' heels. And while Stone Cold was certainly the keynote that made the WWF rise in the late 90's, it can be argued that without a great heel in Vince McMahon, that he never could have become as huge as he became.

CM Punk is being pushed well right now, and nothing more, and nothing less. Until they show that they really have some strong faith in him by having him do something big like win the Rumble or win the Money in the Bank, he's just another guy, getting pushed in the same manner as many, many others before him. Time will tell if he'll be a main eventer.

[NeanderCarl]

First of all, your statement about "anyone could be the next big, mainstream star" is ridiculous. You can't honestly believe that. It takes a certain combination of charisma, skill, and a particular look to become a main eventer, let alone a "mainstream star" the likes of Rock, Austin and Hulk Hogan. What in God's name makes you think that anyone could be the next big mainstream star?

Because becoming a "mainstream star" has absolutely nothing to do with wrestling ability and everything to do with marketing. You can be a mainstream star, and still be a joke, like that Hung guy and any reality TV star. You can be a mainstream star based on notoriety and controversy rather than talent.

With the right PR, the right marketing strategy, the right moves in the right places at the right time, ANYBODY IN THE WORLD could become a celebrity, even if they have zero talent.

Therefore it is no more impossible to say that Funaki couldn't become a big star, a movie-cameoing, late night talk-show-favourite, novelty album releasing crossover star than it is to say anybody else could. It really has zero to do with wrestling ability or charisma or any of the things that could make somebody a star within the realms of the wrestling business itself.

[Fox]

There's a line between "mainstream star" and "flavor of the minute" that you don't seem to understand.

You really want to try and lump Johnny Depp and William fucking Hung in the same category? The "can you hear me now?" guy to Robert DeNiro, or even Mickey Mouse to Catdog?

And it is impossible to say that Funaki will become a big star or a novelty item, and for a wide variety of reasons. First, the mother fucker doesn't speak good english. Second, the dude has comedic charisma, and only barely enough to grant him 2-3 minutes of airtime on Smackdown. Third, he doesn't have the look of a superstar.

You can say all of you want "oh, but the WWE can market him and put the right moves in the right places at the right time," but it's all fucking bullshit-talk, man. It's the same thing as trying to argue the existence of UFO's by saying "You CAN'T PROVE they don't exist!" But in the fucking reality of the world, and in this case, the wrestling world, you don't have to prove it because he's not there and it will never be there.

Funaki as big as The Rock? FUCK NO. You are completely lacking all meters of sense and logic if you believe that this could ever, ever, EVER be a possibility. Maybe in the 1/1,000,000 odds range, but if you're considering and thinking about shit in that range of odds and talking it up to be something realistic, you're fooling yourself and making a fool of yourself at the same time.

[NeanderCarl]

There's a line between "mainstream star" and "flavor of the minute" that you don't seem to understand.

You really want to try and lump Johnny Depp and William fucking Hung in the same category? The "can you hear me now?" guy to Robert DeNiro, or even Mickey Mouse to Catdog?

And it is impossible to say that Funaki will become a big star or a novelty item, and for a wide variety of reasons. First, the mother fucker doesn't speak good english. Second, the dude has comedic charisma, and only barely enough to grant him 2-3 minutes of airtime on Smackdown. Third, he doesn't have the look of a superstar.

You can say all of you want "oh, but the WWE can market him and put the right moves in the right places at the right time," but it's all fucking bullshit-talk, man. It's the same thing as trying to argue the existence of UFO's by saying "You CAN'T PROVE they don't exist!" But in the fucking reality of the world, and in this case, the wrestling world, you don't have to prove it because he's not there and it will never be there.

Funaki as big as The Rock? FUCK NO. You are completely lacking all meters of sense and logic if you believe that this could ever, ever, EVER be a possibility. Maybe in the 1/1,000,000 odds range, but if you're considering and thinking about shit in that range of odds and talking it up to be something realistic, you're fooling yourself and making a fool of yourself at the same time.

My point is, attaining mainstream fame is the easy part... not JUST in wrestling, in life. Capitalising on it, well that's a different thing... I never said Funaki as big as the Rock, or anyone else for that matter. You're blurring my point. You're also blinkered, stuck on the whole "wrestling star" element... I moved outside of that box in my first post on this subject.

Funaki, as we seem to be using him as the sole example here, will never be a regular WWE main eventer. Or let's say "highly unlikely" at least. But that wouldn't stop him having a cup of coffee as a 15-minutes of fame, tongue-in-cheek celebrity of the moment, even if he is the butt of the joke... just like William Hung. Anybody, in any line of work, could achieve that if orchestrated the right way. For my fellow Brits, I only have to mention the name "Howard Brown"... they may not know the name, but they will know the face.

I'm saying, if WWE could get it right, they can attain that status for anybody. They have hours of television exposure every week, influence in the entertainment world, a forum to express this... for them, it could and should be easy.

This is betraying my original point, which was the futility of a big push from WWE right now because they no longer want to achieve this 'making of a star' formula, as evidenced for years... Cena is the only guy they've really attempted it with.

[JT]

In 6 weeks, this board will be flooded with people bitching about how Punk is getting wasted or whatever.

I thought this was going on for 2 years...maybe it's just too small right now to notice.

[NeanderCarl]

Can I just point out that Funaki was a name I randomly selected as an example. I could have said anyone.

[Heros Welcome]

Can't be a Punk thread without this pic.....

http://www.nodqforums.com/features/pics/punkdunk.jpg

[Kane Knight]

I thought this was going on for 2 years...maybe it's just too small right now to notice.

Yeah, it has been consistently, hence the basis.

[addy2hotty]

CM Punk is the most overrated wrestler since Ken Kennedy.

Oh, whats that? Ah right. Yeah.