Will he FINALLY be elevated with a win over Flair? (Mania/RAW Spoilers)

[Xero]

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So, apparently tonight on RAW Flair's opponent was officially named. It's Shawn Michaels.

Woopie....

I mean, sure, I guess the match will be half-decent with Michaels giving Flair his final (for now) match, but they are SERIOUSLY missing the boat with elevating someone. It didn't even need to be someone THAT new. Michaels is as established as he's ever will be (that happened a long time ago). All this will accomplish is giving Michaels a month or two of bragging rights and then it will be like it never happened.

Well, I guess it's better than Hunter taking Flair's final job.

[#1-norm-fan]

I mentioned this in another thread. I am of the belief that not EVERY major match has to be about giving someone a rub. I love the idea of Michaels going over Flair at Mania because at the end of what should be a very good match, there will be that iconic WrestleMania moment. I really don't care to have the whole "using Flair's last match to put someone over". The moment itself is more important in my mind.

[Shaggy]

After this match was announced I had a smile on my face for the next hour.

I really hope this is a great match. If this is Flair's last match then I would love for it to go out on a high note.

[SammyG]

I am gonna be on a fucking plane during Mania. Terrible.

[blake639raw]

I mentioned this in another thread. I am of the belief that not EVERY major match has to be about giving someone a rub. I love the idea of Michaels going over Flair at Mania because at the end of what should be a very good match, there will be that iconic WrestleMania moment. I really don't care to have the whole "using Flair's last match to put someone over". The moment itself is more important in my mind. QFT. Who better in the entire world for Flair to have a final match with than probably the greatest wrestler running today, HBK.

[Xero]

I mentioned this in another thread. I am of the belief that not EVERY major match has to be about giving someone a rub.

That would be true if, you know, someone had been truly given a decent rub in the past few years.

If it were someone like Steamboat or Dusty - anyone from Flair's past - I don't think I would have as much problem with it vs. Michaels. With Michaels it's going to be "I retired a big legend that I respect, go me" and then it'll be done with it. At least with someone like Kennedy (just an example) it could be worked into the character. With Michaels it's just absorbed into the big blob achievements and won't stand out among other ones.

That said, it's not like I'm NOT excited about the match. I just think it could and should have been handled differently with a great match, great moment and a rub.

[Lock Jaw]

Flair might not even lose. Most likely, yes. But you never know.

[El Fangel]

I am gonna be on a fucking plane during Mania. Terrible.

If someone on the plane tells you Cena won at Mania because they found out somehow, please dont hijack the plane, and fly it into the arena.

[U-Warrior]

I dunno flair using his last match to give someone the rub would seem kind of cheap to me. It would be much more iconic imo if it was michaels or hhh.

[Theo Dious]

See, for very cynical reasons, I'm all for Michaels getting the win over Flair. Because no matter what deserving kid you might choose, be it Kennedy, MVP, no matter who it is, there's always a chance they'll fuck it up, and that Flair's career will have been ended by some joke. At least if he goes down to Michaels, that last match will be legendary forever. It will be the story about how a legend's career ended in a legendary match to a legend from another age. It's far better to do that and have a guaranteed classic as Flair's final moment, then to screw it up on some uncertainty. We're always talking about how much Flair's legacy has been pissed on; this is a great chance to ensure that his career at least ends in glory.

[Mr. Pierre]

I mentioned this in another thread. I am of the belief that not EVERY major match has to be about giving someone a rub. I love the idea of Michaels going over Flair at Mania because at the end of what should be a very good match, there will be that iconic WrestleMania moment. I really don't care to have the whole "using Flair's last match to put someone over". The moment itself is more important in my mind.

I agree 100% :y:

[The Optimist]

Either way. I think the words "iconic" and "rub" are being used way too often in the discussion of Flair's final match, so I'm trying not to stress either way. Micheals and Flair will have an alright match, there will be alot of confetti and crying and shit like that.

I wish I knew what Flair planned on doing after his "final match". He could manage, or call some play by play, or really be back in the upper mid card by next March. The booking is preceeded by whatever Ric wants to do. If he still wants to work around WWE on screen, I would have given the job to MVP or CM Punk or Kennedy so that they could work more push out of it than just "The guy who beat Ric Flair that one time". If he's going to go get a reality show or something Shawn is as good a choice as any other, because if this is his last outing on televised wrasslin' any final outcome is equally fine. The difference between what people will call "A Spectacular Final Match" and "Passing the Torch" is minimal to me.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

I just like the idea of HBK hesitantly ending Flair's career, mayb e even shedding a few tears during the pinfall...

And then have him catch shit in the weeks following for ending Flair's career... Could be interesting.

[KYR]

I mentioned this in another thread. I am of the belief that not EVERY major match has to be about giving someone a rub. I love the idea of Michaels going over Flair at Mania because at the end of what should be a very good match, there will be that iconic WrestleMania moment. I really don't care to have the whole "using Flair's last match to put someone over". The moment itself is more important in my mind.

After this match was announced I had a smile on my face for the next hour.

I really hope this is a great match. If this is Flair's last match then I would love for it to go out on a high note.

QFT. Who better in the entire world for Flair to have a final match with than probably the greatest wrestler running today, HBK.

I dunno flair using his last match to give someone the rub would seem kind of cheap to me. It would be much more iconic imo if it was michaels or hhh.

Gentlemen. I agree whole heartedly.

It's Ric Flair for goodness sake. He has in all likelihood chosen HBK himself for his final opponent. Let him go out on his terms and his way. Like #1-wwf-fan, I too am looking forward (hopefully) to that iconic Wrestlemania moment and I don't think you would get that same emotion with a Kennedy or MVP.

Thanks for the memories Ric. Thanks for what you've done for the business. You deserve to go out however you want. :y:

[The Optimist]

I thought of something like that while they were in the ring. Ric asks him to have the match, then Shawn says no. Because he knows he'll win and end Flair's career and he doesn't want that to happen. Hijinks ensue.

[Mr. Nerfect]

If someone on the plane tells you Cena won at Mania because they found out somehow, please <s>dont</s> hijack the plane, and fly it into the arena.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I mentioned this in another thread. I am of the belief that not EVERY major match has to be about giving someone a rub. I love the idea of Michaels going over Flair at Mania because at the end of what should be a very good match, there will be that iconic WrestleMania moment. I really don't care to have the whole "using Flair's last match to put someone over". The moment itself is more important in my mind.

Not every major match does, you are quite right. This is fucking perfect for it, though.

Shawn Michaels and Ric Flair, on-screen, have had pretty much nothing to really do with each other. Why am I meant to care about HBK retiring Flair? Because he's Ric's new friend? Good for Ric, I guess. I want to see a moment I will actually give a shit about, though. Something that will resonate, and develop.

I'm willing to bet that the match won't be perfect. HBK can step it up, and Flair will know it will be his last match, so he won't fuck it up, so I'm sure it will be a classic, but physically, there is only so much these guys can do. It's not going to replace Flair/Steamboat.

At risk of sounding disrespectful to Ric Flair's career, he should do what he's told to do. If he wants the chance to work with someone, fine. Let him work with them. But if Vince tells him to job to someone who is a rising star, that should be fine, too. It's a massive waste of resources for him not to. The Undertaker's streak is something very similar to it. Sure, Taker's a legend, but absolutely fucking right the streak should be broken before he retires. And it should be to who the WWE wants, not just someone who has been around to Taker's house a few times.

Shawn Michaels going over Ric Flair at WrestleMania, to me, won't even be an emotional moment. An old guy is retiring like he should, and he's now hugging this guy I don't even associate with him. OK. Why are these streamers coming down, and why aren't we onto the next match? Seeing as Ric Flair vs. Shawn Michaels is confirmed, I want to see Flair go over. The match will be great, I am sure (not as good as people think it will be, though), and then have Flair go "Dirtiest Player in the Game" on HBK, cheat to win, and then have Michaels a little disappointed, and tease some further friction between them as "friends," and even go as far as having HBK turn heel on Flair.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Flair and HBK have interacted a decent amount in the past, and they've always had the whole "respect" thing going. Flair vs HHH/HBK makes the most sense for Mania. And I have to agree, while I wouldn't mind someone young doing it, at the same time, they're likely to fuck up down the road, and it'll mean nothing. Take Punk for example. If something happens and he's gone in a year or 2, Flair's retirement would essentially mean nothing.

[NYDon]

Nobody will benefit from getting a rub off Flair anyway. That's why they're going with the "Good match" route. If MVP and Kennedy can't even get a couple of snowflakes out of Flair, they don't even deserve it.

[Kane Knight]

Well, thank God. Michaels has been under appreciated for too long.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Nobody will benefit from getting a rub off Flair anyway. That's why they're going with the "Good match" route. If MVP and Kennedy can't even get a couple of snowflakes out of Flair, they don't even deserve it.

Are you crazy? You do realise that the guy who retires Ric Flair would have ended the career of who many consider to be the greatest wrestler in the world? Some would put that higher than a World Title win.

Also, Ric Flair is, quite frankly, pretty fucking horrible these days. He's getting up there, and he only has a good match when he comes to play. Mr. Kennedy and MVP can get "snowflakes" out of Batista. That's arguably harder.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Fuck giving the rub, I'm of the opinion that Shawn Michaels should be the last opponent for any currently active worker who DESERVES to go out on a high note. Flair and his legacy deserve for him to have a 4 or 5 star match as his last great showing and Shawn Michaels is the guy who is the most equiped to give that to him.

[BigDaddyCool]

Well at least it put those Hogan rumor to bed. It should be a good match. Plus it gives HBK something to do besides not win the title.

[Avenger]

I can't fucking wait for this match.

The only two wrestlers in history who come close to the term 'perfect'.

Seriously, there is no-one better than HBK and Flair. It fits perfectly. I can't wait.

[Loose Cannon]

I'm kind of on the fence about this one. Yes, I think HBK would be the best wrestling match for Flair. And it'll be fun for me personally to see the match because I remember back in '91, right before the Rockers split, a young HBK and an "In his Prime" Ric Flair had a match on WWF Superstars. Flair won the match with the figure four I believe. I would love to see them use that for the angle. Then you can use thier faction history as well. HBK being the leader of the first DX and Ric Flair being the leader of the 4 Horsemen. There's a lot there for them to work with.


But..I do see the point of the guys arguing that it should be somebody young. My argument here is, is there really anybody out there that deserves it right now? I don't see anyone. CM Punk, MVP, Kennedy aren't even close to being "there" yet. Honestly, with the exception of Cena, Orton and Brock, they've really sucked at making stars from the load of guys of this 2002-now era. And Orton has been up and down so many times, that I don't even see him as that big right now. Brock is gone. And you have SuperCena. Nobody else is there yet and even with a win over the legendary Ric Flair, I don't see anybody being "made"

[Rammsteinmad]

Why is everyone so 100% sure Flair will lose? If his opponent is Michaels, then for some reason I think Flair will go over.

It's kinda like how we know Flair's gonna retire, but because we're so sure of it... we're not really sure at all.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

One of the other things I could see happening is HBK superkicking Flair, laying down, and pulling Flair over him... Then it goes into a "I beat you, everyone including yourself knows I beat you, but I took mercy on you" angle, at which point, Flair "retires" saying he knows he was beat, and that's what matters...

At which point someone taunts Flair out of retirement (Kennedy, MVP, etc,) and he comes back and wrestles his final match....

[Xero]

One of the other things I could see happening is HBK superkicking Flair, laying down, and pulling Flair over him... Then it goes into a "I beat you, everyone including yourself knows I beat you, but I took mercy on you" angle, at which point, Flair "retires" saying he knows he was beat, and that's what matters...
Too bad WWE is too stupid to do such an awesome angle.

[Stickman]

If some up and comer beat Flair it wouldn't elevate the guy at all. Flair has been jobbing for years.

[Loose Cannon]

One of the other things I could see happening is HBK superkicking Flair, laying down, and pulling Flair over him... Then it goes into a "I beat you, everyone including yourself knows I beat you, but I took mercy on you" angle, at which point, Flair "retires" saying he knows he was beat, and that's what matters...

At which point someone taunts Flair out of retirement (Kennedy, MVP, etc,) and he comes back and wrestles his final match....

then you have Flair walk out of Mania with a pity win right after his HOF Induction. I don't know if I would do that. And it looks like you've turned HBK heel, which would have to lead to another Flair/HBK match. Also, I don't know if you typed "mercy" deliberately, but that actually works well with HBK as a heel religious type HBK would be awesome. That's where I see your story working. So I like it with a few tweaks.

[Mr. JL]

I hope they give this match at least 30 Minutes.

I just downloaded and watched a Flair/Michaels house show match from MSG in 2003 and it was great!

Super PUMPED for this match.

[RVDmark]

Whilst it would be an excellent position to give someone a push / rub. If anyone can have a Wreslemania worthy match with Flair, its HBK. Its got the "wrestlemania moment" just waiting to happen, and a classic bout should ensue.

I'm unsure about who will win, HBK does look likely, but by then if it seems like a 100% lock then Vince may have him lose within a few weeks of WM, like when RVD was supposed to go out and they changed it last minute to give a surprise ending.

Im loking forward to this match. I'm also looking forward to the money in the bank match too, but only for the possibilities that open up depending on who wins. Kennedy winning I would like, also Jeff, also Jericho. But each one brings with it a different type of excitement for the future.

Kennedy is long overdue a push imo. Hardy is getting a push but winning MITB could help cment him in the ME. And Jericho winning would restore some faith that they haven't wasted his return.

The direction they are taking JBL and Finlay is also intriguing.

[The Optimist]

Can I make this clear? Flair is an old man. He's not going to have an awesome or perfect match or a match that's going to live up to this hype. Shawn will carry him to an alright match and the confetti and entrances will probably be longer than the match itself.

Sheesh.

[Mr. Nerfect]

One of the other things I could see happening is HBK superkicking Flair, laying down, and pulling Flair over him... Then it goes into a "I beat you, everyone including yourself knows I beat you, but I took mercy on you" angle, at which point, Flair "retires" saying he knows he was beat, and that's what matters...

At which point someone taunts Flair out of retirement (Kennedy, MVP, etc,) and he comes back and wrestles his final match....

That's a great idea. :y:

What I'd like to see, is Ric Flair manage to somehow get the referee's attention away from the in-ring action, and Flair catches a Sweet Chin Music attempt, gives HBK a low blow, trips him up, and then puts him in the Figure Four, and HBK taps.

Ric Flair celebrates after the match, as the fans are presumingly really emotional (since most people think this is going to be a classic), and he gets the mic and says "I will NEVER retire!" He gets on the turnbuckles some more, and then he turns around into the Sweet Chin Music by Shawn Michaels. HBK then grabs the mic, looks like he is going to say something, and then he just drops the mic and rolls out of the ring.

His music plays as he is going up the entrance way, and he does a little absent-minding dancing to it, as the fans are confusing/booing/cheering/whatever. He then gets to the top, and is kind of like "fuck it" and just gives up covering the moment, and he walks out.

The next night, HBK comes out and says he wants to make an apology to Flair. He says that he got lost in the moment, their match got competitive, and HBK felt violated at the time, but he did not mean to disrespect Flair. Ric comes out, gets in HBK's face, and tells HBK to give him another Sweet Chin Music. This time to his face. Flair says that what HBK was cowardly, and he could have at least kicked him when he was looking. HBK says that he didn't mean to, and it was a mistake. "Bullshit, you didn't mean to!" Flair then mentions the word coward again, and tells HBK that he has been turning on people his entire career, but he could at least give the Flair the respect of letting him know that he's going to do it. Flair demands HBK give him another Sweet Chin Music, just to be a man about it. HBK just goes quiet, and Flair goes to leave, but then Michaels gives him the Sweet Chin Music from behind.

From there, you officially put Ric Flair on RAW, and HBK then gets drafted to SmackDown, where he would feud with The Undertaker, who would be World Heavyweight Champion after WrestleMania.

I can dream.

[RVDmark]

Whilst it would be an excellent position to give someone a push / rub. If anyone can have a Wreslemania worthy match with Flair, its HBK. Its got the "wrestlemania moment" just waiting to happen, and a classic bout should ensue.

I'm unsure about who will win, HBK does look likely, but by then if it seems like a 100% lock then Vince may have him lose within a few weeks of WM, like when RVD was supposed to go out and they changed it last minute to give a surprise ending.

Im loking forward to this match. I'm also looking forward to the money in the bank match too, but only for the possibilities that open up depending on who wins. Kennedy winning I would like, also Jeff, also Jericho. But each one brings with it a different type of excitement for the future.

Kennedy is long overdue a push imo. Hardy is getting a push but winning MITB could help cment him in the ME. And Jericho winning would restore some faith that they haven't wasted his return.

The direction they are taking JBL and Finlay is also intriguing.

[The CyNick]

I dont think a win over Flair will really do much for someone's career.

Flair is beloved, but I dont think he's at a point where people look at him as a top guy.

Plus, I think the days of winning a match over a guy and you get elevated because of it, are pretty much long gone.

There are some exceptions, but nowadays, everyone loses, and most match results dont mean very much because of cheesy finishes and rematch and rematch.

I would say the Flair Mania program needs a bow on it, and HBK is the perfect guy to go out there, and structure a match in a way that makes Flair look great one last time. I wouldnt trust that to a younger guy, who could use the rub, but may not be able to bring out in Flair what they need to to get the match over.

[St. Jimmy]

The two Greatest Wrestlers in the world today, 1 on 1 in the last match for one of them? I can't complain. I think it's the only thing that's solidly booked on the card thus-far.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I thought of something like that while they were in the ring. Ric asks him to have the match, then Shawn says no. Because he knows he'll win and end Flair's career and he doesn't want that to happen. Hijinks ensue.

It would be funny if Shawn said no, and the weeks leading up to Wrestlemania were spent by Flair trying to bait Michaels into a match. Costing him matches, saying his ankles looked fat, drawing a mustache on his passport picture, etc.

[Anybody Thrilla]

The two Greatest Wrestlers in the world today, 1 on 1 in the last match for one of them? I can't complain. I think it's the only thing that's solidly booked on the card thus-far.

But the thing is, Flair isn't one of the greatest wrestlers in the world today. This match will be good, but not great. Not even the best on the card.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Remember last year when Michaels got pissed at Cena for not selling the leg in their Wrestlemania match? I think Michaels will be praying for a Cenaesque sell job against ol' Ricky Flair this year.

[Heyman]

I think HBK was the right choice for Flair's final match. I can't really explain 'why' I feel that way (other than the fact there's a great deal of respect between the two men), but I think it's the right choice.

CM Punk isn't nearly as over as many people on here think.

Flair wants his last match to be a memorable one (great WRESTLING match). HBK fits the bill IMO.

[McLegend]

Forget giving anyone a rub.

It's got to be HBK, and I think Flair should win then retire.