Former WWE Writer confirms RVD's World Title reign in 2002

[KingofOldSchool]

http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/specialevent/wrestling/2008/03/the_story_behind_splitting_the.html#more

In his Newsday blog, former WWE writer Seth Mates confirms what we've heard all along...that Rob Van Dam was slated to beat Triple H to become WHC Champion at Unforgiven 2002. RVD would have been in for a lengthy reign that likely would have culminated in a match at WrestleMania 19 against WWE Champion Brock Lesnar.

[BigDaddyCool]

Was this while RVD was busting people open every week because he was working to stiff or later?

[Dave Youell]

Was this while RVD was busting people open every week because he was working to stiff or later?

Didn't he do that throughout his whole WWE run anyway?

I remember that one, the really dark days, where HHH would have one off feuds with everyone and roll over them, truley dark days.

RVD/Lesnar would of been very cool though

[BigDaddyCool]

When RVD first came in...or early in his WWE career, there was talks about putting the belt on him, but he busted someone open the hardway every match which costed him a title run.

[Kane Knight]

RVD is overrated. All he does is say his name and point. :roll:

[Mr. JL]

Was this while RVD was busting people open every week because he was working to stiff or later?

Pretty sure he only did that during the Invasion Days.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Looking forward to the next edition when he probably says "That was our plan...until Triple H decided to use his Creative Control and win the belt himself."</font>

[Mr. Pierre]

That would have been pretty awesome, especially since RVD and Lesnar had unfinished business from the summer of 2002. RVD got beat badly in the KOTR finals by Lesnar, then RVD (in his hometown at Vengeance) had Lesnar beat, but Lesnar got DQ'd.

Then, within the next two months, each guy wins their brand's championship, and they slowly build the rubber match for RVD and Lesnar.

Would have made sense and would have made for a really nice, well-built Mania feud and match. But Trips going over RVD, Kane, HBK, Steiner, and Booker T in 6 months makes more sense :roll:

[GD]

RVD and Lesnar had a nice chemistry. In the ring of course. It's actually weird cause RVD wasn't even featured on the mania19 card. All he got was heat...sunday night heat.

[Theo Dious]

I am very happy that RVD didn't have a title run at that point.

[Rob]

http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/specialevent/wrestling/2008/03/the_story_behind_splitting_the.html#more

In his Newsday blog, former WWE writer Seth Mates confirms what we've heard all along...that Rob Van Dam was slated to beat Triple H to become WHC Champion at Unforgiven 2002. RVD would have been in for a lengthy reign that likely would have culminated in a match at WrestleMania 19 against WWE Champion Brock Lesnar.

He wasn't slatted to beat him. It was an idea for him and later Kane to beat Triple-H but he nixed both.

[James Steele]

Well, if RVD didn't openly trash WWE and brag about how he smokes weed every time he does an interview....

[Mr. Nerfect]

RVD is overrated. All he does is say his name and point. :roll:

My God, that's what Kennedy's missing...thumbs!

Hey, it explains why he needs a special building mic, and can't grasp one himself.

[Mr. Nerfect]

RVD and Lesnar had a nice chemistry. In the ring of course. It's actually weird cause RVD wasn't even featured on the mania19 card. All he got was heat...sunday night heat.

And he lost to Val Venis. Now I am a massive Val mark and all...but he lost to Val Venis!

[Mr. Nerfect]

He wasn't slatted to beat him. It was an idea for him and later Kane to beat Triple-H but he nixed both.

That's not what this guy is now saying.

[Kane Knight]

Well, if RVD didn't openly trash WWE and brag about how he smokes weed every time he does an interview....

LOL yeah. It's even better that he tends to lie about shit, too. The primary thing being that he pretends he was fired for weed...

My God, that's what Kennedy's missing...thumbs!

Hey, it explains why he needs a special building mic, and can't grasp one himself.


:y::D:y:

Evolution is a mystery....

[Rob]

That's not what this guy is now saying.

Where does he say that this was the exact plan?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Where does he say that this was the exact plan?

"Then, with Brock gone and defected, our plan called for Bischoff to announce the creation of the World Heavyweight Championship, with the No. 1 contender (Triple H) facing the IC Champion (Rob Van Dam) to crown the first champion at Unforgiven.

Van Dam would then win the World Title, and our plan called for both he and Brock to hold onto their championships until the following WrestleMania -- there had been so much turmoil and craziness with the Invasion storyline and the brand extension that we resolved it would be a good thing to get one guy driving each show for the better part of the year. Having Brock and Van Dam be the guys felt new and fresh, especially after a year when you had Austin, Hogan, Rock, Triple H and Undertaker on top -- all huge stars obviously, but the fans (and most of us on creative) were screaming for something new."

:?:

[Volchok]

That would have been awesome.

[Volchok]

I don't even hardly remember 2002.:$ someone refresh my memory.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't even hardly remember 2002.:$ someone refresh my memory.

The year started off pretty...meh. Triple H returned as a face, and the focus in the 2002 Royal Rumble was on him wrestling his first match back, and it being Kurt Angle's first Rumble ever.

2002 started off with Chris Jericho as the Undisputed Champion, and he defended the his crown against The Rock at the Royal Rumble, and Stone Cold Steve Austin at No Way Out, before losing to the Royal Rumble Winner, Triple H, at WrestleMania X-8, which was overshadowed by Toronto cheering for Hulk Hogan at the expense of The Rock.

The nWo had returned at No Way Out, but their run as a stable was pretty much cut short when Scott Hall ran into alcohol problems again, and Kevin Nash tore a quad walking. Hulk Hogan was out of the group because he got cheered and had turned face.

Brock Lesnar became one of the fastest rising stars in WWE history (probably the quickest push to the top ever), as he debuted on the RAW after WrestleMania, and won the Undisputed Championship from The Rock at Summerslam. The Undisputed Championship went from Chris Jericho to Triple H to Hulk Hogan to The Undertaker to The Rock to Lesnar, before it became known as just the "WWE Championship" again, and was moved exclusively to the SmackDown! brand.

Oh, yeah, the WWE had installed brands, with Ric Flair "owning" RAW and Vince owning SmackDown!. McMahon won back control of the WWE, but kept the shows separate, and we got Eric Bischoff as RAW General Manager and Stephanie McMahon as SmackDown! General Manager.

RAW would be plagued by Triple H monopolising the title scene. The European Championship was unified with the Intercontinental Championship by Rob Van Dam, with Jeff Hardy being the last European Champion (although some recognise RVD, although the WWE does not). RVD also defeated Tommy Dreamer to unify the IC Title with the Hardcore Championship. Triple H would then unify the IC Title with the newly created World Heavyweight Championship (which he was awarded). I think Kane became the last IC Champion at this point, but the title was revived in 2003 by Stone Cold Steve Austin (in kayfabe) when Christian won a Battle Royal for the vacant title.

2002 on the RAW side saw Shawn Michaels return to the ring at Summerslam in a Street Fight against Triple H. The Game would walk over RVD and Kane to retain the WHC, which included the infamous Katie Vick angle. Survivor Series 2002 saw the original Elimination Chamber for the World Heavyweight Championship, which Shawn Michaels won. HBK would lose the WHC back to Triple H at Armageddon in a 3 Stages of Hell Match, with the final fall being a Ladder Match.

On SmackDown!, Paul Heyman was writing, so things were a lot better. Guys were allowed to show off wrestling talent, Mattitude had been created, and Brock Lesnar was turned face by the year's end.

[The Optimist]

Rob Van Dam getting that big of a push was pretty appropriate at the time, and I would have loved it.

For the record: "all huge stars obviously, but the fans (and most of us on creative) were screaming for something new."

Sounds familiar.

[Rob]

"Then, with Brock gone and defected, our plan called for Bischoff to announce the creation of the World Heavyweight Championship, with the No. 1 contender (Triple H) facing the IC Champion (Rob Van Dam) to crown the first champion at Unforgiven.

Van Dam would then win the World Title, and our plan called for both he and Brock to hold onto their championships until the following WrestleMania -- there had been so much turmoil and craziness with the Invasion storyline and the brand extension that we resolved it would be a good thing to get one guy driving each show for the better part of the year. Having Brock and Van Dam be the guys felt new and fresh, especially after a year when you had Austin, Hogan, Rock, Triple H and Undertaker on top -- all huge stars obviously, but the fans (and most of us on creative) were screaming for something new."

:?:

I can tell you that "our plan" wasn't the WWE plan. It wasn't close to it. There as a 50-50 split on giving both RVD and Kane world title runs prior to matches with Triple-H and nothing after that. And as for long term plans going into Wrestlemania, WWE barely books anything for Mania before Survivor Series because they change their minds about as much as I change my kid's dirty nappies.

[Volchok]

Rob no offense but where are you getting your sources from about RVD not winning the title?

[Rob]

Kevin Kelly said it on Between The Ropes for a start when he left WWE and that was public.

Why does everyone always wanna know my sources like 1 - I'd ever say who they are and 2 - like I post enough now to care if people believe me or not. Those who know my past here would back me without knowing.

[Volchok]

It's not that I didn't believe you, But I never heard the interview with Kevin Kelly.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I can tell you that "our plan" wasn't the WWE plan. It wasn't close to it. There as a 50-50 split on giving both RVD and Kane world title runs prior to matches with Triple-H and nothing after that. And as for long term plans going into Wrestlemania, WWE barely books anything for Mania before Survivor Series because they change their minds about as much as I change my kid's dirty nappies.

Of course it wasn't the WWE's plan. They obviously didn't go through with it. Whether it was Triple H, Stephanie McMahon or Vince McMahon, Triple H was awarded the World Heavyweight Championship, which seemed to justify victories over Kane and RVD to "establish" the belt. There are not real arguments there.

This writer has come out and stated that the writers (or whoever "we" represents -- I'm assuming the writers) wanted to put the World Heavyweight Championship on Rob Van Dam. He is a legitimate source, I believe.

You do have a very good track record, but that doesn't mean your word should be taken as lore automatically. I'm not arguing with you here, or implying that you don't have a clue what you're talking about, but following even an enlightened person blind is often a bad choice. You have been right most of the time, though, I'll give you that.

I'm sure you are right when you talk about it not being Vince's plan. If it was, then it probably would have happened. I think it is a bit ignorant to dismiss this writer's claims as completely false, though.

[Y2Ant]

Shit yeah I forgot all about them getting rid of the IC title, what the fuck were they thinking with that?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Shit yeah I forgot all about them getting rid of the IC title, what the fuck were they thinking with that?

I guess it goes with how the WWE has evolved its mentality, for better or worse. Everyone was there to go for the top prize, and if you weren't, then you might as well go home. Emphasis was moved away from mid-card acts, and the idea of the roster split was to push more stars, I think. Even Bubba Ray Dudley was getting World Heavyweight Title shots, so I guess they didn't feel the need for a "stepping stone" belt.

The psychology behind the idea was probably that there would be one singles title on each show, a "specialty title" (Women's or Cruiserweight) and a set of Tag Team Titles. Either you're good enough to be the absolute best, or you're not.

That mentality only really lasted in full effect (although the value of a good mid-card is still overlooked) for around a year, before we saw the IC Title brought back, and the US Title revived and established as a WWE title.

[Rob]

I'm sure you are right when you talk about it not being Vince's plan. If it was, then it probably would have happened. I think it is a bit ignorant to dismiss this writer's claims as completely false, though.

You are 100% on that if it was Vince's plan, it would have happened. And I'm not dismissing the story as completely false. I'm saying it wasn't ever a set plan. It was an idea. Whole different thing. Like I said, I know for a fact there was serious talks of putting the title on RVD and Kane but it never happened. Those were also just ideas. Unless Vince McMahon changed his mind on something, it's not the plan.

[Mr. Nerfect]

You are 100% on that if it was Vince's plan, it would have happened. And I'm not dismissing the story as completely false. I'm saying it wasn't ever a set plan. It was an idea. Whole different thing. Like I said, I know for a fact there was serious talks of putting the title on RVD and Kane but it never happened. Those were also just ideas. Unless Vince McMahon changed his mind on something, it's not the plan.

I agree. Sorta. I think saying "the idea was to put the title on RVD" and "the plan was to put the title on RVD" are interchangeable. It's just that the plan didn't get very far. It was the plan for a lot of people, but the person who counts just went a different route. You can get plans on all different levels.

But I do agree with the general point that Vince obviously wanted to go with Triple H.

Seth Mates has written another entry, where he talks about how Triple H was the right choice to go with as World Heavyweight Champion, and in it he claims that "most of the writers" wanted RVD to be the first World Heavyweight Champion. And the following here is a direct quote from Mates:

"At the time, it was disheartening to see the plans change so drastically (yes, the official plan at first was for RVD to win it)."

I'm not saying you are wrong, Rob. Just saying that there were obviously "plans" or "ideas" for RVD to be the first World Heavyweight Champion. I think we're just arguing semantics when it comes to whether or not they were serious.

[Mr. Nerfect]

By the way, I disagree that Triple H was a good choice for the first World Heavyweight Champion. As Mates said, 2002 was not a good year for Triple H, he had just been a bland face, had a main event at WrestleMania that was completely overshadowed, and he had yet to truly find his groove back in the ring. RAW was getting its ass kicked creatively by SmackDown!, and I think Smackers even had better ratings for a while. A lot of that was because RAW was so...shitty. A lot of that was because Triple H monopolised the World Heavyweight Title scene.

Of course guys like Chris Benoit and Chris Jericho never felt like big stars compared to Triple H. It's because he did things like hold the World Heavyweight Title for 11 months. It's because his programs got the main event while World Heavyweight Title matches not involving Triple H often got the shaft.

I guess Mates' point is that if you put the spotlight on someone, and then it changes to someone else, things are more interesting. That's true, but that doesn't make the time with the spotlight on paint drying any more interesting. If RVD had held the World Heavyweight Title for 11 months, it would have been something fresh, something enjoyable and something not as creatively eroded as Triple H's monster reign.

[Rob]

I disagree with him too. If RVD, Jericho, Benoit or any other wrestler who was looking for the big push got a lengthy run on top and were booked like HHH was (in other words, not walking dogs the week before Wrestlemania), they would have been just as good.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Spot on. :y: