Looking at Angle...

[Theo Dious]

So, I don't watch a lot of TNA, but I flipped by last night during a break in a baseball game I was watching, and I saw Angle facing off with the dumbass in the chain mail hat. At the time I was led to wonder... is Angle less bulky than he was, or is this an illusion created by his proximity to Stein-roid?

This also led me to wonder, whether or not he has gotten a bit smaller, what Angle's physical condition has been of late, and whether or not his well-being is any less endangered than it was when he left WWE. A lot of "dead-in-a-month" quips were thrown around back then, but we're near two years later and he's still at it.

Give me your thoughts before I'm forced to do something rash. :mad: ............... :shifty:

[McLegend]

His legs are small.

[Kane Knight]

Angle's looked smaller for a while. When I asked, people suggested he was probably off the juice due to his interest in MMA.

[Lock Jaw]

Yeah, he's definitely smaller. His arms no longer look like orangutan arms. He was already looking slightly smaller when he debuted in TNA, and he's been deflating since then.

[Mercury Bullet]

was probably off the juice due to his interest in MMA.

Bingo. In the U.S. the maximum weight for heavyweight is 265. So in order to fight Angle has to be small enough he could at least cut to 265 before a fight. People try to refute his MMA claims by saying he's all talk and has no interest in doing it, cause all he does is talk about it and hasn't gotten in the ring/cage yet...but maybe thats because you have to do stuff, like say, "train" to compete in MMA. Maybe he's taking his time and learning the right way, rather than rushing in to get crushed right off the bat.

[Fabien Barthez]

Most deffinately the reason. Angle's biggest problem with a transition will be getting himself into the condition he appears to be in now, without taking all the juice and painkillers he's on. Then he would have to worry about the fact he would get laid out by almost anyone in UFC.

I do keep catching bits of Impact here and there, he is still one of the top 5 workers around right now for my money.

[Destor]

The competiton for the top spot in TNA is non-existant in TNA for Kurt Angle, juice or no juice he doesn't have to fight for the top spot and thus he doesn't have to work out as hard. Plus even with not working out he's still bigger than the vast majority of the roster.

[Fabien Barthez]

Bingo. In the U.S. the maximum weight for heavyweight is 265. So in order to fight Angle has to be small enough he could at least cut to 265 before a fight. People try to refute his MMA claims by saying he's all talk and has no interest in doing it, cause all he does is talk about it and hasn't gotten in the ring/cage yet...but maybe thats because you have to do stuff, like say, "train" to compete in MMA. Maybe he's taking his time and learning the right way, rather than rushing in to get crushed right off the bat.

So are you suggesting he was what.... 280/90 lbs before he left WWE? Sure. :rofl:

[Mercury Bullet]

So are you suggesting he was what.... 280/90 lbs before he left WWE? Sure. :rofl:

Umm...yes. Yes I am. He was incredibly muscular. He probably weighted over 265...and was on roids...both of which would prevent him in competing in MMA in the United State.

[Mercury Bullet]

http://mercuryqueen.homestead.com/files/angle1.jpg

Look at that Angle vs. the Angle now...and that wasn't even at his biggest. His shoulders, arms, chest, all bigger than they are now. Thats a big difference in mass.

[Fabien Barthez]

I don't care. He is 5'10'' and never even close to 270. I would argue that he would fight lower than HVW if he crossed to MMA.

[Mercury Bullet]

It would probably be better if he DID fight lower than that, because he would likely be weaker than alot of guys he would fight at heavyweight. And I would imagine that at his peak he was right around that limit of 265. He probably is in the 220's now, and it would be wise for him to fight at 205 IMO.

[Fabien Barthez]

It would probably be better if he DID fight lower than that, because he would likely be weaker than alot of guys he would fight at heavyweight. And I would imagine that at his peak he was right around that limit of 265. He probably is in the 220's now, and it would be wise for him to fight at 205 IMO.


Do you have any idea how insanely massive a 5'10'' guy would have to be to weigh a legitimate 265lbs? Imagine away, he has NEVER been that big man.....

[BigDaddyCool]

Darth...if you ever insult Stiener again, I will beat you up.

[CSL]

Yeah, no way Angle has ever been anywhere NEAR 270lbs

235-240lbs tops

[Mercury Bullet]

Well this argument is pointless as none of us have trustworthy official stats on him or anything so we are all just going by what we think he weighed. So i'm just dropping it cause we are never gonna go anywhere.

[Kane Knight]

Darth...if you ever insult Stiener again, I will get Sugar Butt to beat you up.

[Kane Knight]

Well this argument is pointless as none of us have trustworthy official stats on him or anything so we are all just going by what we think he weighed. So i'm just dropping it cause we are never gonna go anywhere.

Do you have any idea how implausible your argument was in the first place?

[Fox]

Here's Angle at the 96 Olympics, weighing in officially between 215-220lbs:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/events/1996/olympics/daily/aug1/images/wrest1.jpg

Here's Angle in 2004:

http://www.geomundos.com/deportes/Wrestling/kurt-angle_foto_25701hoxefwsbaj.jpg

Here's Angle in 2008:

http://tnawrestlingphotos.com/albums/pay-per-view-photos/2008-ppvs/final-resolution/_MG_9716.jpg


I would say that at the height of his WWE career (and before the pushing of the new wellness policy), Angle may have been as heavy as 230-240lbs, maybe more. After the wellness policy he seems to have stopped using the "extras," either as much, or all-together, from the looks of his biceps and legs.

[Fabien Barthez]

Well this argument is pointless as none of us have trustworthy official stats on him or anything so we are all just going by what we think he weighed. So i'm just dropping it cause we are never gonna go anywhere.

There was no argument. I was simply correcting you. You just made me do it twice. Put it like this. You saw the size of Brock Lesnar in his UFC match? He is way more bulky than Angle has ever been, and about 6 inches taller. He was 250 and said in interviews he never cut a shred.

[Kane Knight]

Here's Angle at the 96 Olympics, weighing in officially between 215-220lbs:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/events/1996/olympics/daily/aug1/images/wrest1.jpg

Here's Angle in 2004:

http://www.geomundos.com/deportes/Wrestling/kurt-angle_foto_25701hoxefwsbaj.jpg

Here's Angle in 2008:

http://tnawrestlingphotos.com/albums/pay-per-view-photos/2008-ppvs/final-resolution/_MG_9716.jpg


I would say that at the height of his WWE career (and before the pushing of the new wellness policy), Angle may have been as heavy as 230-240lbs, maybe more. After the wellness policy he seems to have stopped using the "extras," either as much, or all-together, from the looks of his biceps and legs.

Are you kidding? There's no size difference between Cena then and now...

...Whoops, wrong argument. :shifty:

[Fabien Barthez]

Are you kidding? There's no size difference between Triple H then and now...

...Whoops, wrong argument. :shifty:

[Mercury Bullet]

There was no argument. I was simply correcting you. You just made me do it twice. Put it like this. You saw the size of Brock Lesnar in his UFC match? He is way more bulky than Angle has ever been, and about 6 inches taller. He was 250 and said in interviews he never cut a shred.

No way was Brock down to 250 for that match, he was much bigger than that. He was saying he never cut because he caught a lot of flak for being so big in the first place, and bringing up the discussion of rather or not there should be a superheavyweight division in the UFC, or setting a lower limit on the heavyweight division. Weight classes are designed narrowly so that in theory, we see a measure of skill vs. skill not size vs skill. In the heavyweight division, you could have a guy who walks around at 215-220 and not cutting vs. a guy (like Lesnar) who cuts to make 265. Brock weighed in RIGHT AT 265 for the fight with Mir, and he probably weighed over 270-275 on the night of the fight.

Article Here (http://www.cagepotato.com/2008/02/02/ufc-81-weigh-in-results-brock-lesnar-has-enormous-hands/) with the numbers from the weigh in.

[Mercury Bullet]

There was no argument. I was simply correcting you.

Oh really? Like I just simply corrected you? Oh yeh but I presented you with actual facts and numbers and all that silly stuff rather than just an opinion. Like I tried to say, and tried to stop, the argument on Angle was based entirely on opinion and there is no way to find reliable official numbers on his weight so we really have no idea, just our speculation.

Lesnar on the other hand, does have reliable numbers on hand. And I just served them to you.

You had to go and mouth off after a civil disagreement, and look what happened. Pwn'd. When are some people gonna learn...

[Mercury Bullet]

Do you have any idea how implausible your argument was in the first place?

It's a difficult argument from any angle (zing!) because there are no reliable stats for Angle's weight or anything, because he doesn't weigh in for anything...so there is no record keeping and this entire ordeal is just our speculation on the subject. So realistically there is no fact-based argument from any perspective.

[CSL]

Did you just use 'Pwn'd' in a serious context?

[Mercury Bullet]

Your damn right I did. Thats how I roll.

[Mercury Bullet]

I must've been away for too long...

But don't worry MB is back to take care of things.

K4L

[Jeritron]

He's lost a ton of muscle and it's really clear to see. Def got off the juice

[DaVe]

Kurt was billed between 220 and 235lb through out his whole WWE career, just so you know, Bullet. And the WWE don't ever bill their wrestlers less than they really are.

[Kane Knight]

It's a difficult argument from any angle (zing!) because there are no reliable stats for Angle's weight or anything, because he doesn't weigh in for anything...so there is no record keeping and this entire ordeal is just our speculation on the subject. So realistically there is no fact-based argument from any perspective.

Hence I used the phrase "implausible."

Synonyms unlikely, improbable, unbelievable.

But hey, let's look at your own evidence in terms of Cocksword's weight. Cocksword weighed in at 265, a guy who was not only taller than Angle but also bigger. So you're trying to say that Angle as trying to cut weight down to a weight comparable to Cocksword, which pretty much holds no water whatsoever. While you can argue there are no facts on either side, it doesn't make your argument strain credibility any less.

[Fabien Barthez]

Oh really? Like I just simply corrected you? Oh yeh but I presented you with actual facts and numbers and all that silly stuff rather than just an opinion. Like I tried to say, and tried to stop, the argument on Angle was based entirely on opinion and there is no way to find reliable official numbers on his weight so we really have no idea, just our speculation.

Lesnar on the other hand, does have reliable numbers on hand. And I just served them to you.

You had to go and mouth off after a civil disagreement, and look what happened. Pwn'd. When are some people gonna learn...

Look, if you think that Angle weighed 280lbs, then fine man.

So I couldn't be arsed to check the weights for Lesnar, so what? Fact is he weighed maximum of 265lbs and the fact that he is way more muscular and half a foot taller than Kurt, shits all over any argument or victory you think you have or have won.

Your statement is ludicrous. But congratulations on 'pwning' me.

Boy, is my face red..:o:o:o

[Fabien Barthez]

Hence I used the phrase "implausible."

Synonyms unlikely, improbable, unbelievable.

But hey, let's look at your own evidence in terms of Cocksword's weight. Cocksword weighed in at 265, a guy who was not only taller than Angle but also bigger. So you're trying to say that Angle as trying to cut weight down to a weight comparable to Cocksword, which pretty much holds no water whatsoever. While you can argue there are no facts on either side, it doesn't make your argument strain credibility any less.

Yeah, I never got as far as this post. Once I saw I was 'pwn'd' I felt I had to respond instantly...

But yeah, what he said.

[Kane Knight]

It's a Pyhrric victory, really. Kinda like proving that you didn't kill that hooker because you were too busy shooting up a senator's car.

[Mercury Bullet]

Jesus, people, come on. My point is that none of us can prove our point (myself including) cause we don't have any info on what Kurt really weighs now or weighed during his heaviest during his WWE run...

Also I never said Angle weighed 280...but I did say he was probably trying to keep a manageable weight so that he wouldn't have to be cutting to make sure he was safely within the weight limit.

[Mercury Bullet]

Hence I used the phrase "implausible."

Synonyms unlikely, improbable, unbelievable.

Yeh, I was agreeing with you on that...

:y:

And I've said repeatedly that no argument (mine included) is gonna have solid weight (pun intended again) behind it because we don't have the facts on, merely our own opinions. So, I like how I'm really getting this thrown in my face or whatever by freakin' AGREEING that there is no way to make a logical point on this!

[DaVe]

Also I never said Angle weighed 280...but I did say he was probably trying to keep a manageable weight so that he wouldn't have to be cutting to make sure he was safely within the weight limit.

A couple of posts ago you did actually say you thought Angle was right around 265lb at his peak. 265/280, it doesn't matter. Angle was never anywhere near that size.

[Mercury Bullet]

15 pounds is a big difference, 265 and 280 are not the same thing.

[Fabien Barthez]

In the U.S. the maximum weight for heavyweight is 265. So in order to fight Angle has to be small enough he could at least cut to 265 before a fight.

(Amateur) Wresters generally cut about 20lbs for MMA. You are suggesting he has to shrink down to make this plausable for him.

Regardless of correct facts for his weight, he is not as heavy as you seem to be arguing. Everyone else in this thread reckons about 235-40. Why? Because they have simple judgement and common sence.

Theres no official weight for..... let's say, Rey Mysterio. I think he weighs 225lbs. Dissagree? Well you can't prove me wrong until you sit fucker on some scales and we are all present to see the read out.

But we all know that's not true...

ANY IDIOT CAN SEE HE DOESN'T WEIGH THAT MUCH!

If you'd just say 'maybe i'm wrong' as apposed to 'you can't prove it' you might have a point...

[Kane Knight]

I'm pretty sure nobody can disprove that Crash Holly was a super heavyweight. If he was still alive, I'm pretty sure he'd have to cut at least 200 lbs to compete at even the highest level of MMA...

[Mercury Bullet]

(Amateur) Wresters generally cut about 20lbs for MMA.

:rofl:

Yeh, sometimes people cut that much. But to see "generally" and imply thats an average amount of weight to cut is absurd. While I've never competed in a professional MMA bout, I've never cut for an amateur fight. I've never cut more than a pound or two wrestling. I cut 6 pounds for boxing.

Yes, some people cut 20 or even MORE sometimes. But typically cutting is within 10 pounds. When you cut 20 to make weight for something you are losing a lot of strength AND endurance.

If you'd just say 'maybe i'm wrong' as apposed to 'you can't prove it' you might have a point...

Now, saying that nobody can prove it IMPLIES the fact that yes, maybe I'm wrong. Did you just want it to come out in those words? Okay, there you have it. Maybe I'm wrong...EITHER way, back to the main topic, I firmly believe he has lost some weight to comfortably transition into MMA when he choses to do so.

I'm pretty sure nobody can disprove that Crash Holly was a super heavyweight. If he was still alive, I'm pretty sure he'd have to cut at least 200 lbs to compete at even the highest level of MMA...

Thats not even a realistic comparison to this because we are talking about hundreds of pounds in difference vs. 20-30 lbs of difference. And while 20-30 lbs is significant, hundreds of pounds could not be debatable because there would be a clear difference in the physique of say 150 lb man vs. a 400 lb man.

[Fabien Barthez]

I'm pretty sure nobody can disprove that Crash Holly was a super heavyweight. If he was still alive, I'm pretty sure he'd have to cut at least 200 lbs to compete at even the highest level of MMA...


Thats not even a realistic comparison to this because we are talking about hundreds of pounds in difference vs. 20-30 lbs of difference. And while 20-30 lbs is significant, hundreds of pounds could not be debatable because there would be a clear difference in the physique of say 150 lb man vs. a 400 lb man.


Honestly, I just don't know what to say to that... Brilliant. You are simply brilliant.

[Kane Knight]

Thats not even a realistic comparison to this because we are talking about hundreds of pounds in difference vs. 20-30 lbs of difference. And while 20-30 lbs is significant, hundreds of pounds could not be debatable because there would be a clear difference in the physique of say 150 lb man vs. a 400 lb man.


We don't have any proof either way, so my bullshit reasoning is every bit as valid as yours.

[St. Jimmy]

Does everything HAVE to become a Cock-measuring contest and a flame war? Seriously? Does Kurt look smaller? Yes. But that's all about perception and personal opinion. Jesus Christ.

What's even worse is that most of you fucking suck at arguing and are walking into KK's territory. He knows more than you and he expresses better. If he corrects you just shut the fuck up and walk away. It's called "Saving Face."

[Mercury Bullet]

Does everything HAVE to become a Cock-measuring contest and a flame war? Seriously? Does Kurt look smaller? Yes. But that's all about perception and personal opinion. Jesus Christ.

God, that is EXACTLY what I have been trying to say, including saying MY OWN GODDAMN OPINION can't be back up! Yet people still are trying to flame me and tell me my opinion is flawed. Fucking hello! I'm admitting my opinion is flawed AS IS everybody elses on this and I've been trying to stop the argument since the first post! But everytime I say something, somebody pops off about it again with the same faulty logic behind it!

And I'm not even going to warrant that last one with a response because it's garbage and he knows it, he just enjoys egging this on.

[Kane Knight]

Your own Goddamn opinion is fucking stupid. There, I said it.

Fact: Opinions can actually be wrong, especially when founded on stupid, specious or self-serving reasoning, let alone just plain ignorance.

[Mercury Bullet]

We don't have any proof either way, so my bullshit reasoning is every bit as valid as yours.

self-serving reasoning

Like your statement above??? :D

[Mercury Bullet]

/endthread

I'm out. It's been fun.

[Fabien Barthez]

The thing about Crash was fuckin' sarcasm!! Trying to prove the point that everyone is entitled to an opinion, but sometimes, they are clearly a long way off the mark. JESUS CHRIST!!

As if I have to explain sarcasm, here of all places.

And for the record, I have not insulted you once. There's just not been a need to do that, although the constant rebutles which all basically say 'I might be wrong, but you can't prove it' have tested my faith in the common sense of man a couple of times.

[Kane Knight]

Like your statement above??? :D

Yes, it was self-serving reasoning.

YOURS.

See what I mean about Pyhrric victories? You managed to just take a shot at someone using your own bullshit line of thinking. :D

[Testicle]

Kurt was billed between 220 and 235lb through out his whole WWE career, just so you know, Bullet. And the WWE don't ever bill their wrestlers less than they really are.

Shawn Michaels weighed as much as 250 in the early 90's and was never billed as much.

You can never take what the are listed at to be true.

[Testicle]

Also Mick Foley wieghed as much as 320 and was always billed at 287.

[Kane Knight]

The important thing is that Mercury Bullet "pwnt" himself by attacking his own specious reasoning (Which was blatantly packaged as such). Who cares about made up billed weights?