Which is more unforgivable...and be honest.

[BigDaddyCool]

Chris Benoit double murder suicide (that involes murdering his own son, his own flesh and blood) or Hulk Hogan being a self centered dick hole?

[BigDaddyCool]

Now remember, if you vote for one, you are saying you can forgive the other more easily.

[SammyG]

First of all, it's unforgivable. Secondly, this is the dumbest question of all time if you want people to answer this seriously, come on.

[Afterlife]

Fuck. I voted for Benoit because I thought it said "forgiveable". I call for a do-over!

[BigDaddyCool]

BDC has never been a strong speller, get over it.

[CSL]

Well, on the account of not caring less about Hogan's ways, Benoit easy.

[CSL]

And then, like a complete jobber, I selected the wrong option in the poll :|

[Afterlife]

lol, Seems to be a trend.

[Rob]

Hogan is self centered? Wow who gives a fuck? He ain't killing anyone.

And he is the reason a ton of guys have fucking jobs today.

[MCEazy]

As much as i hate hogan, holding just about anybody in the business back as apposed to killing ur own family is not even close really.

[Afterlife]

If Hogan was an asshole because he was crazy and couldn't help it, this would be a difficult argument. But since mad men can't be held accountable for being mad, and Hogan is an empty douchebag because he chooses to be, it seems pretty simple.

[Azriel]

Not even close by a wiiide margin. If Hogan ever kills somebody though, then the scales might tip his way.

[Nowhere Man]

Sure, Hogan was an asshole and ruined dozens of people's careers. That's pretty shitty. Strangling your own son, though, is just about the worst thing a person can do. So it's no contest at all.

[FourFifty]

I'm gonna say Hogan was worse. At least Benoit took himself out.

[darkpower]

Yes

[The Optimist]

Hogan's whole life of being a total shit head or Benoit's completely abberant psychotic behavior at the end of his life?

Benoit had gone insane, Hogan does all this while completely in control of himself.

[Rob]

If Hogan was an asshole because he was crazy and couldn't help it, this would be a difficult argument. But since mad men can't be held accountable for being mad, and Hogan is an empty douchebag because he chooses to be, it seems pretty simple.

You don't know Benoit was mad. And I don't give a fuck if he was (which will never be proven and is only debated by people who want to believe he was), he killed 2 people. Bottom line.

[Afterlife]

I knew you'd do this. And you know what? You're still an arrogant, obtuse and wrong. And for the record, moron, he killed three people.

[Rob]

Get a life pal.

[U-Warrior]

Good fucking god, afterlife.

No amount of being a dickbag can surpass killing your wife, and 7 year old son, even if you're somewhat unstable.

[Theo Dious]

You don't know Benoit was mad.

But I KNOW that Hulk Hogan is not. Therefore I am less likely to forgive him than someone who MIGHT have been off his nut.

[Afterlife]

Good fucking god, afterlife.

No amount of being a dickbag can surpass killing your wife, and 7 year old son, even if you're somewhat unstable.

Killing a portion of your loved ones is not "slightly unstable", it's "off your fucking rocker". There is a massive difference, wether you choose to see it or not. And choosing your reality is a luxury for those of us with control of our mental faculties; those who aren't can't be blamed for their actions because they're not in fucking control.

[Rob]

So all murderers shouldn't be jailed or whatever because they are mentally insane then.

[Rob]

Good fucking god, afterlife.

No amount of being a dickbag can surpass killing your wife, and 7 year old son, even if you're somewhat unstable.

Don't stress. It's forgivable for anyone to murder people because you aren't mentally right. Obviously in the fucking millions of murders in the history of the world, every single killer was mentally ill. Should never do jail time because they should be given insanity pleas. 9/11 was fine by the way. The terrorists were mental so it's forgivable.

I'd rather someone be a dick to me than kill me. That's just me though.

It's absolutely no wonder why people in the real world think wrestling fans are the fucking scum of the Earth. Only wrestling fans can defend murderers.

[Afterlife]

See, now you're getting defensive again, and you're not making any sense in the process. You did this last time and looked like a real jerk in doing so.

[Rob]

I don't expect people who defend murderers to understand.

And I don't fuck a flying fuck if you think I look like a jerk, dick or a cunt. I will absolutely NEVER believe all murderers are nuts. Simple as that. You got a problem with it? Tell someone who cares.

[NoRoolz]

What Benoit did is more unforgiveable as a double murder suicide can't really be compared with just being an arrogant, selfish cunt doing prickish things.

However, I do believe Benoit was no way in his right mind and if he would have stopped after killing his family, I believe he'd have ended up in some sort of mental institution.

Benoit did something unforgiveable realistically, but in my belief was always a good person.
Hogan has done a lot of bad things, but only minor, but to me, has always been a cunt.

[Rob]

Hulk Hogan didn't do any good for anyone in the wrestling business either did he? Only helped at least 20 guys have careers for a start. Also made a ton of guys in the late 80s have good 6 figure bank accounts because he was selling out shows like a rock star.

WCW - only helped turned the entire company around and they were profitable for the only time in their history when he was on top. Also made even more guys millionaires. Bryan Adams for example got a $800,000 a year deal because he was connected with Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage. He wasn't getting 1/4 of that in the WWF.

So he didn't do a job? Who gives a shit. Like Billy Kidman should have been a fucking main eventer or something. It's the wrestling business. It's all politics and backstabbing. If you don't know what you are getting into then you are a fucking moron. He got himself a deal where he had creative control and a huge guarantee sum of money on every show. How does this make him a bad person? It shows WCW were fucking idiots for giving him the deal. Sometimes he should have lost to someone to make them a bigger star so he could make more money with them on top and he didn't. Bad decision yes. Bad person? Fuck no.

Honestly amongst carnies? Come on now. No wonder the fans are called marks.

[Mr. Nerfect]

What a stupid fucking question. And I'm not saying that because it's "easy to answer," either. There are just too many things to take into consideration, and the two options really have nothing to do with each other. They are tragedies for entirely different reasons.

[Rob]

Hey 9 people think refusing to do a job to Billy Kidman and Bret Hart is worse than killing a child. These are the people you are dealing with here brother.

[Bad Company]

Fuck, I voted on the wrong one. Hogan has done nothing compared to Benoit.

[Rob]

He refused to do a job!!!!! How is that nothing?

[U-Warrior]

He held people down, yeah, but he didn't ruin any careers or anything. Everyone he held down ended up being successful eventualy anyways, so I don't see how he's done that much damage to the industry.

And despite his douchebaggery, he did more to help the industry in the 80's, than he ever did to hurt it in subsequent years.

[thedamndest]

lol this poll is closer than Taz vs. Sabu.

[Bad Company]

He refused to do a job!!!!! How is that nothing?
Maybe this should be between Benoit and Bret Hart. Wooooo!

[ron the dial]

how is this even a thread

[ron the dial]

god i didn't even read it. some of you are fucking worthless human beings.

[U-Warrior]

Hulk Hogan didn't do any good for anyone in the wrestling business either did he? Only helped at least 20 guys have careers for a start. Also made a ton of guys in the late 80s have good 6 figure bank accounts because he was selling out shows like a rock star.

WCW - only helped turned the entire company around and they were profitable for the only time in their history when he was on top. Also made even more guys millionaires. Bryan Adams for example got a $800,000 a year deal because he was connected with Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage. He wasn't getting 1/4 of that in the WWF.

So he didn't do a job? Who gives a shit. Like Billy Kidman should have been a fucking main eventer or something. It's the wrestling business. It's all politics and backstabbing. If you don't know what you are getting into then you are a fucking moron. He got himself a deal where he had creative control and a huge guarantee sum of money on every show. How does this make him a bad person? It shows WCW were fucking idiots for giving him the deal. Sometimes he should have lost to someone to make them a bigger star so he could make more money with them on top and he didn't. Bad decision yes. Bad person? Fuck no.

Honestly amongst carnies? Come on now. No wonder the fans are called marks.

Seriously, I can understand why the IWC doesn't like the guy, but they blow his negatives WAYYYYYYY out of proportion.

[Afterlife]

I don't expect people who defend murderers to understand.

And I don't fuck a flying fuck if you think I look like a jerk, dick or a cunt. I will absolutely NEVER believe all murderers are nuts. Simple as that. You got a problem with it? Tell someone who cares.

Nobody ever said that. Your silly exaggerations and deliberate misquotations take away your credibility.

[The Mackem]

I never read anything that said Benoit was mad.

[The One]

Benoit.

To forgive I'd need to understand, and nothing will ever make me understand it. Hogan is a complete cunt, both in this business and his conduct (especially lately) out of it. But I can understand cunts. I don't understand someone who could murder their child.

[The Optimist]

After further introspection, I think my opinion is closest to Noid's. There's too many variables to give this question a suffient answer.

(I did lean toward Hogan at first.)

[The Optimist]

Rob, you've said some stupid shit during this argument.

[El Fangel]

I only voted Hogan as a joke, as there is no way this can be a serious poll.

[Rob]

Rob, you've said some stupid shit during this argument.

Like what? Murdering someone is worse than refusing to do a job? Yeah I agree it's stupid. Triple-H should be allowed to kill whoever the fuck he wants as long as he puts over Chris Jericho or Jeff Hardy.

[Afterlife]

I only voted Hogan as a joke, as there is no way this can be a serious poll.

If it's not a joke, there's a serious problem.

[Theo Dious]

Benoit.

To forgive I'd need to understand, and nothing will ever make me understand it. Hogan is a complete cunt, both in this business and his conduct (especially lately) out of it. But I can understand cunts. I don't understand someone who could murder their child.

That's the point really. Nobody is saying "is double-murder-suicide worse than being a monumentally selfish prick bastard." The question boils down to who you can forgive. It's entirely possible, if not proven, that Benoit did what he did because of a physically traumatic career, marital difficulty, the loss of one of his best friends, the possibility of a child with a rare and emotionally taxing disease, and a demotion to ECW ( :shifty: ). Tovo is damn right in this respect, none of us has ANY idea what that could be like, so I'm not about to say I can't forgive him.

Hulk Hogan on the other hand damages people's careers and liveliehoods, and suggested that the kid whose son his life destroyed deserved what he got.

I don't know if I can forgive Benoit. I do know I ain't forgiving Hogan. Hence, my vote.

[Theo Dious]

As an aside, I can see Benoit actually asking forgiveness if, you know, he weren't dead. Can you see Hogan ever repenting?

[Theo Dious]

Hey 9 people think refusing to do a job to Billy Kidman and Bret Hart is worse than killing a child. These are the people you are dealing with here brother.

I also would like to point out for the record that refusing to job to Kidman and Hart are, in my view, points FOR Hogan, not against him.

[SammyG]

How the fuck are there 12 votes for Hogan. COME ON.

[Afterlife]

Everything is relative, and relativity is based on perception. That's why people choose (or vote for) the things they do.

[Xero]

So Benoit is hiding out with Brian Pillman in the greatest worked-shoot in history?

[Afterlife]

Eh?

[Team Sheep]

I'm just dumbfounded as to how this became a proper discussion.

[NoRoolz]

Cena sucks.

[ron the dial]

okay seriously. i don't give a fuck if chris benoit was insane when he killed his family. he was insane due to his own actions taken over the course of his wrestling career. he chose to live the life of a wrestler. he chose to take the drugs. he chose to work the hours. so to defend his actions as those of a madman is both retarded and pointless. IN THE END IT IS HIS FAULT.

and even so hogan not jobbing affected, what, the wrestling business? what is the wrestling business compared to human lives being taken? not shit. it's not shit compared to almost anything, but especially murder.

[Afterlife]

okay seriously. i don't give a fuck if chris benoit was insane when he killed his family. he was insane due to his own actions taken over the course of his wrestling career. he chose to live the life of a wrestler. he chose to take the drugs. he chose to work the hours. so to defend his actions as those of a madman is both retarded and pointless. IN THE END IT IS HIS FAULT.

and even so hogan not jobbing affected, what, the wrestling business? what is the wrestling business compared to human lives being taken? not shit. it's not shit compared to almost anything, but especially murder.

This is, I think, where people tend to get the wrong idea. I'm not saying, nor have I ever said, that what happened was "o.k." All I"ve ever said was that he was clearly out of his head when he did it, because there was no reason to do it. When you take reason out of a situation, especially when people end up dead, it doesn't take a scholar to deduce that something is wrong.

What happened is, indeed, a terrible thing. If I had reason to believe he was aware of reality for the duration of the goings on, then sure, I'd be as angry and unrelenting as the next guy. But nothing about it leads me to think, as a logical person, that the murders make sense, so I have to conclude that he lost it. And when someone goes crazy, yes, they should be sent to an asylum, to be treated. Not to coddle them, but to try to figure out what's wrong and how, if possible, to fix it.

I know some of you don't like it, and don't give a shit about me or anything I say -- and really, you don't have to. But, to condemn a man for something that clearly has no logic or rationale applied to its happening, makes the same amount of sense. All "Hogan equality poll" jokes aside, it simply doesn't make sense.

Again, I'm not excusing what he did. But, if you'll accept a mild comparisson, it's kind of like when the church used to punish children for being left handed. Not everybody is wired the same, and to hate someone for something they can't help, is downright stupid.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

I only voted for Hogan because Hogan made me. He doesn't want to job to Benoit even in this poll.

Also, if people can claim that Benoit is "let-off" because he's crazy, how can you still vote for Hogan? I'd need reports proving he's not crazy.

[SammyG]

okay seriously. i don't give a fuck if chris benoit was insane when he killed his family. he was insane due to his own actions taken over the course of his wrestling career. he chose to live the life of a wrestler. he chose to take the drugs. he chose to work the hours. so to defend his actions as those of a madman is both retarded and pointless. IN THE END IT IS HIS FAULT.

and even so hogan not jobbing affected, what, the wrestling business? what is the wrestling business compared to human lives being taken? not shit. it's not shit compared to almost anything, but especially murder.

[ron the dial]

afterlife you're missing the point

[Destor]

I figured I'd be the only guy to vote Hogan.

[Rob]

Hulk Hogan on the other hand damages people's careers and liveliehoods, and suggested that the kid whose son his life destroyed deserved what he got.


You fucking idiot. There wouldn't even be the business like it is today without Hulk Hogan. Wrestlemania would have failed without him for a start and put WWF out of business. Hulk Hogan on top drew fucking insane money. What careers did he destroy? Look at every single wrestler in the WWF in 80's and early 90's. They made huge money because of Hulk Hogan. He always looked after his buddies too in the sense they always had jobs.

[Rob]

Wrestling fans are fucking idiots.

[The Mackem]

You fucking idiot. There wouldn't even be the business like it is today without Hulk Hogan. Wrestlemania would have failed without him for a start and put WWF out of business. Hulk Hogan on top drew fucking insane money. What careers did he destroy? Look at every single wrestler in the WWF in 80's and early 90's. They made huge money because of Hulk Hogan. He always looked after his buddies too in the sense they always had jobs.

Don't bother Rob, I had a similar discussion about Hogan and at the end of the day Hogan is the anti-christ...apparently.

[Rob]

I'd just like to know whose career he DESTROYED!!!

[KingofOldSchool]

BROTHER BROTHER BROTHER

[Rob]

Obviously all these people who voted for Hogan too would be pissed for life if he cost them £50 but if Chris Benoit killed their family they'd forgive him.

[Afterlife]

I'd just like to know whose career he DESTROYED!!!

You're misquoting again just to maintain an argument. He said careers were damaged; he said a life was destroyed. So, either you're not paying attention to the conversation, or you want to be right, no matter what.

[Afterlife]

afterlife you're missing the point

No, I get your point entirely. The problem with saying that losing his mind is his fault from drug use, trauma, etc., is that he didn't do any of it with that intention. Granted, with Rob's logic, I can only GUESS that he didn't want to go crazy, but it doesn't seem to be a realistic goal. Sure, things he did probably led to the breakdown at the end, but I don't see a serious hold in saying "he went crazy on purpose".

[ron the dial]

lol it doesn't matter if it's what he wanted. he still did it to himself. and i never said it was on purpose. it was just the toll that his lifestyle took on him. to try and take that away and pretend like he was an innocent bystander in his mind's decay is ridiculous.

[Afterlife]

But that makes out to say that everyone in the wrestling biz who ever took a performance enhancing drug will end up with a schizophrenic break in or around 20 years.

The guy had problems well before this episode. I'm not saying he handled them well. But going crazy isn't something anyone handles all that well -- it's fucking crazy.

[ron the dial]

most of them overdosed before they had a chance to go crazy.

and that's not at all what i'm saying, but you can pretend like it is.

[Rob]

lol it doesn't matter if it's what he wanted. he still did it to himself. and i never said it was on purpose. it was just the toll that his lifestyle took on him. to try and take that away and pretend like he was an innocent bystander in his mind's decay is ridiculous.

Do junkies go on killing sprees? Nope. They do more drugs than Chris Benoit did and their minds are more fucked. The stuff about his lifestyle is bullshit. No other wrestlers have killed their families.

There is ZERO proof his mind was fucked. ZERO.

[ron the dial]

i'm not saying his mind was fucked. i'm just arguing the point that even if his mind was fucked for a lot of the reasons i've heard that doesn't give him an excuse.

[Rob]

No, I get your point entirely. The problem with saying that losing his mind is his fault from drug use, trauma, etc., is that he didn't do any of it with that intention. Granted, with Rob's logic, I can only GUESS that he didn't want to go crazy, but it doesn't seem to be a realistic goal. Sure, things he did probably led to the breakdown at the end, but I don't see a serious hold in saying "he went crazy on purpose".

So if someone who was mental or out of their head on drugs killed your parents or your kids, you'd be able to forgive them right?

[Rob]

i'm not saying his mind was fucked. i'm just arguing the point that even if his mind were fucked that doesn't give him an excuse.

Yeah sorry I know. Was meant to just follow on from your post.

[Kane Knight]

You don't know Benoit was mad. And I don't give a fuck if he was (which will never be proven and is only debated by people who want to believe he was), he killed 2 people. Bottom line.

BAH GAWD! INVERTED OCCAMS RAZOR!

Is that legal?

LET LOGIC BE DAMNED! ITS STILL REAL TO ME, DAMMIT!

[Afterlife]

So if someone who was mental or out of their head on drugs killed your parents or your kids, you'd be able to forgive them right?

If a crazy person murdered my family, forgiveness wouldn't be a question. A drug frenzy is entirely different. You can kick a drug habbit, and drugs are something you take on purpose. You don't BUY madness.

You seem to think that forgiveness is something you only give to people who don't need it. That's fucking retarded. Yes, I would forgive a man who murdered my family. That doesn't mean I'd like the bastard. But forgiveness just means not holding a grudge; it has nothing to do with being friends.

[Afterlife]

most of them overdosed before they had a chance to go crazy.

and that's not at all what i'm saying, but you can pretend like it is.

I'm not pretending anything. :wtf:

[Rob]

If a crazy person murdered my family, forgiveness wouldn't be a question. A drug frenzy is entirely different. You can kick a drug habbit, and drugs are something you take on purpose. You don't BUY madness.

You seem to think that forgiveness is something you only give to people who don't need it. That's fucking retarded. Yes, I would forgive a man who murdered my family. That doesn't mean I'd like the bastard. But forgiveness just means not holding a grudge; it has nothing to do with being friends.

Okay you'd forgive a murderer who killed your family.

We need a new poll - Is Afterlife a lying fuck?

[Afterlife]

At the rate you're going, calling me a liar is just another example of your blatant attempts to miss the content of my posts and use said tactic to evade understanding. You do not look smart by avoiding a direct discussion.

[Rob]

I'm not trying to look smart. Unlike yourself, I don't feel the urge to try and push my intellect on others to boost my own ego.

Here it is as clear as day - Benoit killed two people. Not cool with me. Hulk Hogan made himself millions of dollars, built a company which is mega profitable today and giving many people who grew up watching him a great lifestyle. This is fine by me. You saying you'd forgive a person who killed your family is a blatant lie. You know it. I know it. And everyone reading this thread knows it.

Feel free to continue your babbling now.

[Afterlife]

Your allusion of knowing me as a person is pretty weak, kiddo. Learn my name, then maybe we'll get into my ego. You, apparently, don't understand the diffrence between "forgive" and "forget". Really, from the path your arguments tend to take, I guess I don't expect you to, but it'd be nice if you did. After all, if you could recognize said difference, you wouldn't be resorting to personal attacks on a guy you've never met. But, it's like the saying goes: "Wisdom is rarely gained by enforcing ignorance."

Oh, and I guess you chose to ignore it, but I stopped talking about Hogan a while ago. Just to bring you up to speed in the conversation you're still in, and all.

[ron the dial]

i still want to know how the fuck this is a real thread

[Afterlife]

Technically, it isn't. :lol: