Kane WTF? (Raw Spoilers)

[Rammsteinmad]

Looks like they've dropped the ball again. :roll:

[Juan]

I agree. I'm looking forward to this Kane/Mastrio feud like I look forward to a root canal.

[Rammsteinmad]

Didn't you say that a few days ago in another thread?

None-the-less I agree 100%.

[Gonzo]

Its basically the XPac/Kane feud, subbing Rey for XPac.

[Rammsteinmad]

And why the fuck was Kane saying "He's still alive"... of course he is. If Rey had died I'm pretty sure we'd all know about it.

Come on WWE, at least TRY to do something shocking!

[Gonzo]

Meaning the actual wrestlers, not the specific storylines.

[MCEazy]

I was kinda hoping Kane was just swerving Adamlie (SP?) by taking a different sack to ringside because he knew he'd have to reveal the contents or whatever and then would come out again the next week with the real bag but I doubt this, ether way this is WWE tricking the IWC yet again.

[Rammsteinmad]

AND another thing... is Kane a face or a heel? For fucks sake I'm so pissed right now.

I hope Kane get's released soon coz I'm so fed up with seeing him get messed around like this.

[Gonzo]

And why the fuck was Kane saying "He's still alive"... of course he is. If Rey had died I'm pretty sure we'd all know about it.

Come on WWE, at least TRY to do something shocking!

Someone did propose in the RAW thread that Kane was playing a trick when he pulled out Rey Mysterio's mask. While this is plausible, I think its highly unlikely that WWE would roll with something like that.

[Rammsteinmad]

Someone did propose in the RAW thread that Kane was playing a trick when he pulled out Rey Mysterio's mask. While this is plausible, I think its highly unlikely that WWE would roll with something like that.

Even if that's the case I've totally lost interest in this angle now. That was just a really dumb segment, and I no longer care if Kane eventually gets his mask back or not. :foc:

[Juan]

Didn't you say that a few days ago in another thread?

None-the-less I agree 100%.

I don't think so...

[Rammsteinmad]

Okay maybe it wasn't you lol.

[Afterlife]

I definitely say this is a case to whip out my old catchphrase:

Watch before you bitch.

[Juan]

I usually tend to agree with that statement, Afterlife, but I just have a bad feeling about this one.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, I get the impression that they just had the Rey Mysterio mask because it would "shock" everyone who expected the Kane mask. I hope the WWE continues going with this, with Kane playing a bit of a joke of everyone for a few weeks.

[Indifferent Clox]

I hope Mysterio comes back as a heel on this one.

[Afterlife]

If Rey has taken off the mask -- or, perhaps more impressively, Kane has removed it from him -- then Rey Mysterio, the identity, is "dead". Oscar Gutierrez is still alive and kickin', perhaps, and that might be a fun change of pace. But the terminology Kane used, though metaphorically, could be deemed acceptible.

[Lock Jaw]

Kane said the man behind the mask was horribly scarred and disfigured. They're going to reveal that Kane isn't really Kane, and he never has been. Rey Mysterio is and always has been Undertaker's brother that was burned in the fire.

[Juan]

I hope you're right, Noid.

[Indifferent Clox]

that wouldn't make any sense at all lol.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Afterlife, I appreciate the thought you put into that, but I can't see the WWE unmasking Rey Mysterio. Especially with the struggle between Rey and Kane being off-screen? I think the best we can hope for is Kane dropping riddles as his last human act before heading back to the mask. I personally think what we can expect is Kane & Rey Mysterio, World Tag Team Champions.

[Afterlife]

And you don't think it makes sense for Rey to join Kane's "vision"? You don't need masks to hide your pain; show yourself, and expose your pain to the world. That is how you team them up.

[darkpower]

Would it be too much of a stretch to believe (or hope) that they are going to be using Mysterio's Filthy Animals persona (w/o mask)? THAT would be awesome if they went that route.

[Tazz Dan]

Yeah, I get the impression that they just had the Rey Mysterio mask because it would "shock" everyone who expected the Kane mask. I hope the WWE continues going with this, with Kane playing a bit of a joke of everyone for a few weeks.

Yeah. Expect Mankinds mask next week. What better way to kill Foley off TV???

[MCEazy]

AND another thing... is Kane a face or a heel? For fucks sake I'm so pissed right now.

I hope Kane get's released soon coz I'm so fed up with seeing him get messed around like this.

isn't he a tweener?

[Afterlife]

Yes.

[FourFifty]

Watch Rey back in his heyday in WCW. See the stuff he did with the cruiserweights and Kevin Nash. Hell, watch Rey when he first came to WWE. He was so much better. So I'm gonna have to say that Kane's promo was spot on. Rey is a scared shell of who he used to be.

[DaVe]

Maybe, but I'm still hoping Noid is correct. Kane was laughing when the mask was revealed... so I think I still have hope this storyline is going to lead to something.

Unfortunately, I've had to say that quite a few times recently.

[Mister Sinister]

And why the fuck was Kane saying "He's still alive"... of course he is. If Rey had died I'm pretty sure we'd all know about it.

Come on WWE, at least TRY to do something shocking!

What are you talking about? Last time I checked, WWE.com doesn't report 12 Year Old Mexicans who mow people lawns.

[Rammsteinmad]

Ouch. :lol:

[Rammsteinmad]

If Rey has taken off the mask -- or, perhaps more impressively, Kane has removed it from him -- then Rey Mysterio, the identity, is "dead". Oscar Gutierrez is still alive and kickin', perhaps, and that might be a fun change of pace. But the terminology Kane used, though metaphorically, could be deemed acceptible.

That sounds WAY to intelligent for a WWE storyline.

[screech]

I was pretty pissed when he pulled out Rey's mask, but I still have a bit of hope that something good will come out of this. I'm going to try and reserve judgment for a little while.

[thedamndest]

Why hasn't anyone suggested the possibility that Glen Jacobs will begin competing as Kane Mysterio, Jr.?

[Xero]

He should just become the Mask Collector. They could bring back masked wrestlers and have him de-mask them.

This would lead to Kane's new movie, "About Face", where he slices peoples' faces off and has a 32 inch dick for no apparent reason.

[Hanso Amore]

There is no reason what so ever that they can wedge Rey into this and make sense.

This started when Kane snapped and asked if he was alive or dead. What the fuck does that have to do with Rey?

Nothing about this makes any sense.

The fact that some of you are trying to shoe horn this into a scenario that makes sense is great, because the best you can come up with.....still makes no sense.

[Xero]

You know what? This reminds me an awful lot of a Scooby Doo episode.

DAMN YOU FREDDIE PRINZE!

[Stickman]

I hardly watched any of Raw, but when Kane pulled out that mask I was on the edge of my seat.....then changed the channel because that was rediculous.

[Rammsteinmad]

There is no reason what so ever that they can wedge Rey into this and make sense.

This started when Kane snapped and asked if he was alive or dead. What the fuck does that have to do with Rey?

Nothing about this makes any sense.

The fact that some of you are trying to shoe horn this into a scenario that makes sense is great, because the best you can come up with.....still makes no sense.

:lol:

[FourFifty]

There is no reason what so ever that they can wedge Rey into this and make sense.

This started when Kane snapped and asked if he was alive or dead. What the fuck does that have to do with Rey?

Nothing about this makes any sense.

The fact that some of you are trying to shoe horn this into a scenario that makes sense is great, because the best you can come up with.....still makes no sense.

And this is Chewbacca.

[Mooияakeя™]

I hope Mysterio DOESN'T come back PERIOD!

Quoted, but amended for myself.

[Xero]

Wait, so we're going to have giant jobber vs midget jobber?

No one wins.

[FourFifty]

Why would a Monster, a seven-foot tall Monster, want to wrestle Rey, a two-foot tall Mexican? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this WWE Logic? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with WWE logic! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a guy with a Kane Mask tattoo, and I'm talkin' about Rey getting air time! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in in front of your computer deliberatin' and masturbatin' the WWE, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed IWC, it does not make sense! If Kane is a seven-foot tall monster, you must give up logic!
Look at the silly monkey!

[BigDaddyCool]

*head explodes*

[Xero]

Why would a Monster, a seven-foot tall Monster, want to wrestle Rey, a two-foot tall Mexican? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this WWE Logic? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with WWE logic! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a guy with a Kane Mask tattoo, and I'm talkin' about Rey getting air time! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in in front of your computer deliberatin' and masturbatin' the WWE, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed IWC, it does not make sense! If Kane is a seven-foot tall monster, you must give up logic!
Look at the silly monkey!

This defense works better...

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g122/sandman3g/Wrestling/khalidefense.jpg

[Tazz Dan]

You know what? This reminds me an awful lot of a Scooby Doo episode.

DAMN YOU FREDDIE PRINZE!

This does make some sense. Freddie Prinze Jnr writing. Rey Mysterio Jnr in the storyline. Ted Dibiase Jnr winning the tag belts back.

I'm seeing a pattern...

[OverTaker]

OH, so Kane is gonna wear Rey Jr's mask now? ZOMG!!

[#BROKEN Hasney]

I definitely say this is a case to whip out my old catchphrase:

Watch before you bitch.

Oh no, in this instance that's like watching Hitler round up all the jews and saying "Wait, let's see what if does before you bitch"

This will not play out in an entertaining manner.

[Champion of Europa]

This does make some sense. Freddie Prinze Jnr writing. Rey Mysterio Jnr in the storyline. Ted Dibiase Jnr winning the tag belts back.

I'm seeing a pattern...

Freddie Prinze writes for Smackdown.

[Kane Knight]

There is no reason what so ever that they can wedge Rey into this and make sense.

This started when Kane snapped and asked if he was alive or dead. What the fuck does that have to do with Rey?

Nothing about this makes any sense.

The fact that some of you are trying to shoe horn this into a scenario that makes sense is great, because the best you can come up with.....still makes no sense.

WATCH BEFORE YOU BITCH!

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to run around in this thunderstorm with a large pole in the air, because you cannot know for sure lightning will strike until it does.

[thedamndest]

JR: Now Rey, we now know that Kane held you in his secret, underground torture chamber for a month, keeping you near starvation, probing your body with tools, scarring you with fire, ripping your flesh, and god knows what other sadistic measures human beings were not meant to inflict on each other. You and your family will never be whole again. Do you want to involve the law in this matter and lock this monster up for life?

Rey: Hell no! I just want his big red ass September 7, at Unforgiven!

[Fox]

If this was their idea for starting a Kane vs. Rey feud, it's the worst one ever. Worse even than Jericho spilling coffee on Kane.

[XL]

Maybe they're finally rolling with Juvi's Mask v Mask Match that he pitched before he got the boot?

Have Kane go back under the mask then have Rey beat him, Kane unmasks and...It's someone other than Glen Jacobs? :shifty:

[FourFifty]

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to run around in this thunderstorm with a large pole in the air, because you cannot know for sure lightning will strike until it does.

Oh my God, KK, I fucking love you, and I'm stealing that quote.

[Rammsteinmad]

Maybe they're finally rolling with Juvi's Mask v Mask Match that he pitched before he got the boot?

Have Kane go back under the mask then have Rey beat him, Kane unmasks and...It's someone other than Glen Jacobs? :shifty:

It'd end up being John Cena.

[Rammsteinmad]

If this was their idea for starting a Kane vs. Rey feud, it's the worst one ever. Worse even than Jericho spilling coffee on Kane.

Now that COULD happen. :|

[Mr. Nerfect]

And you don't think it makes sense for Rey to join Kane's "vision"? You don't need masks to hide your pain; show yourself, and expose your pain to the world. That is how you team them up.

I think it would be more likely that they both go back to masks. It's not that I don't think your idea is intelligent, or good, but it just seems too rich a concept for the WWE. Especially considering how much merchandise Rey Mysterio w/Mask moves.

[Mr. Nerfect]

There is no reason what so ever that they can wedge Rey into this and make sense.

This started when Kane snapped and asked if he was alive or dead. What the fuck does that have to do with Rey?

Nothing about this makes any sense.

The fact that some of you are trying to shoe horn this into a scenario that makes sense is great, because the best you can come up with.....still makes no sense.

I agree completely. This storyline involving Rey would really make no sense, no matter what route they go with it. Well, it might make some semblance of sense here and there, but it makes little sense.

That is why I am hoping for Kane pulling out another mask next week, just to have Michael Cole and Jerry Lawler wonder just what Kane means, as they build to the Kane mask returning. The Mankind mask someone suggested would be a great idea.

[Afterlife]

I've said it before and I'll say it even if it does happen: Kane going back to the mask would be completely stupid and utterly useless.

[Fox]

Nostalgia is a powerful mother fucker.

I think as soon as he goes back under the mask (assuming he will one day) he's going to get face pops simply because of the memories.

[Afterlife]

Bogus.

[Hanso Amore]

And you know what else burns my fucking ass?

Until the words "This isnt my mask" came out of his mouth, I was totally into it. I was like, yeah, Adamle is working it. Kane has tried to be normal, tried to suppress his murderous instinct. But now Adamle will be unleashing the beast.

They could have had Adamle try to control Kane, but only to find out there is no control. Mask kane is destroying people left and right. Eventually someone stops him. Whatever, it would work.



And a last note about the "see how is plays out" crowd....A good storyline (Mind you most fans are kids or rednecks) will make sense along the way. I dont want to have to wait until the blow off match to understand why these 2 are fighting.

[Afterlife]

So, I get this now: new ideas will be instantly shat upon before we know where it's going, but when the company goes back to the same old shit with the same old main events, etc., then we have the right to gripe. Am I understanding this correctly?

Maybe a good storyline involves getting the fans to say "where is this going?". Maybe it has something to do with creating a fairly high profile feud we've yet to see. Not to suggest Kane and Rey are the biggest stars ever, but they're huge names and a feud between them has oodles of potential -- that's right, oodles!

Besides that, I"m really not arguing for this feud, if that's what we're headed for. I'm just saying, I think this is one of those times to shut it until we know what's up. That's all.

[Rammsteinmad]

And you know what else burns my fucking ass?

Until the words "This isnt my mask" came out of his mouth, I was totally into it. I was like, yeah, Adamle is working it. Kane has tried to be normal, tried to suppress his murderous instinct. But now Adamle will be unleashing the beast.

They could have had Adamle try to control Kane, but only to find out there is no control. Mask kane is destroying people left and right. Eventually someone stops him. Whatever, it would work.

Summer 2003.

[Hanso Amore]

I know what you are trying to say Afterlife, I just refuse to accept it in this case. You are right, it is new, and people should give new things a chance, but this is just so fucking non-nonsensical. They are going to have to spend 15 minutes explaining it to me, and it should be that hard.

They could have had Kane pull Jason Vorhees' mask out of the bag, then have Robo Cop fight Pumpkinhead in a Soul on a Pole match, and it would make as much sense.


And yeah, I would take a 2003 like Kane back in this angle, it would at least make sense (The Flame Returning so to speak)

[Afterlife]

I understand this is WWE, but the need for instant gratification on every turn is a bit much. Obviously you don't to like it, and sure as shit you don't have to agree with me -- I'm just some jerk on a forum. But storytelling isn't always a one-shot deal. That's all I'm trying to say.

[BigDaddyCool]

I understand this is WWE, but the need for instant gratification on every turn is a bit much. Obviously you don't to like it, and sure as shit you don't have to agree with me -- I'm just some jerk on a forum. But storytelling isn't always a one-shot deal. That's all I'm trying to say.


Yeah, but this thing is already riddle with plot holes.

[Afterlife]

Riddled how? "He's dead"? That's one hole, and it's only a hole if he meant literally that Oscar was dead..

[Rammsteinmad]

Afterlife this is the internet. You can't be so optimistic. It's bad for you. :p

[Hanso Amore]

Is he alive or dead? - How does this matter to rey?

Why did he snap into wondering about Rey after losing a match?

How is Rey Scarred?

Why is he scarred?

Where does kane fit into this?


I guess they ultimately did a good job in gettign the fans talking, cause as much as I now dont care, I still want to see how they dig their grave deeper on this shit sandwich, so I guess I will tune in.


This was such a let down, I still am bummed and cant stop complaining. I was marking out, then bam, shit sandwich in my mouth.

This was like coming down to Christmas morning, and instead of presents under the tree, you find out you are Jewish, then get thrown into and oven.

[Rammsteinmad]

In all fairness, the whole thing Afterlife is getting at about letting it play out seems reasonable. The problem with this angle is that after Monday I just feel like it's a dead end.

Even if next week they do the same thing with a different mask, the whole angle just seems like a total mess to me already, and I just totally don't care about it anymore.

Whatever the end result of this angle is, it's gonna be a moot point anyway because it's Kane. Within a few months he'll go back to being a mid-card jobber to the stars.

Kane is so desperately in need of an Infinite Crisis right now (DC fans will get the reference). His continuity and his whole character is so out of whack right now that it's hard to care anything about him anymore.

[NeanderCarl]

Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with WWE logic! It does not make sense!

In which case, it has everything to do with WWE logic...

[U-Warrior]

Dunno, why this is getting so much hate, tbh.

Was unexpected, and I like that. Rey gets a lot of hate on these bords, so thats prolly a factor I guess. I enjoy both guys' work, and I don't believe they've ever squared off, so it's something new and fresh.

Not gonna crap on the angle itself, as it's a little too early to do so, imo.

[Afterlife]

Is he alive or dead? - How does this matter to rey?

Why did he snap into wondering about Rey after losing a match?

How is Rey Scarred?

Why is he scarred?

Where does kane fit into this?


I guess they ultimately did a good job in gettign the fans talking, cause as much as I now dont care, I still want to see how they dig their grave deeper on this shit sandwich, so I guess I will tune in.


This was such a let down, I still am bummed and cant stop complaining. I was marking out, then bam, shit sandwich in my mouth.

This was like coming down to Christmas morning, and instead of presents under the tree, you find out you are Jewish, then get thrown into and oven.

Rey made, I think, one appearance before ghoing off tv to finish healing up. Kane could, as I was saying, be referring to Rey Mysterio and not Oscar Gutierrez. If Kane has managed to "kill" the character, then the character is, metaphorically, dead. If Kane's "darkside" was running this process, then Kane's "normal side" wouldn't be certain.

Rey's had hundreds of surgeries, I'm sure he has scars. That, and Kane's scars were in his head; perhaps he refers to Rey/Oscar's mental and emotional scarring.

Again, like I said before: Kane wasforced to be unmasked against his will and now he sees another man running around, basing his career on a mask. Kane sees this as unfair and rips the mask away, revealing Rey/Oscar for the "monster" he really is. Kane is fucking unstable, who knows what he's thinking exactly? Point being, this is not the fucking Bible - just because you haven't gone past page one doesn't mean there are contradictions in every chapter.

[Hanso Amore]

Ooo, Bible Zinger!!!!!

How cool would it be if they became an alliance, and were like MAster and Blaster from Thunderdome!!!!

[Mr. Nerfect]

Rey made, I think, one appearance before ghoing off tv to finish healing up. Kane could, as I was saying, be referring to Rey Mysterio and not Oscar Gutierrez. If Kane has managed to "kill" the character, then the character is, metaphorically, dead. If Kane's "darkside" was running this process, then Kane's "normal side" wouldn't be certain.

Rey's had hundreds of surgeries, I'm sure he has scars. That, and Kane's scars were in his head; perhaps he refers to Rey/Oscar's mental and emotional scarring.

Again, like I said before: Kane wasforced to be unmasked against his will and now he sees another man running around, basing his career on a mask. Kane sees this as unfair and rips the mask away, revealing Rey/Oscar for the "monster" he really is. Kane is fucking unstable, who knows what he's thinking exactly? Point being, this is not the fucking Bible - just because you haven't gone past page one doesn't mean there are contradictions in every chapter.

I like that you're trying to put a positive spin on things, but the thing is, Kane didn't kill Rey Mysterio. They've barely interacted in the past. If this were a comic book, Kane pulling out Rey Mysterio's mask in the final panel of the comic, setting up a future issue between the two. But the WWE revolves around a level of realism. You can't tell a story out of chronological order.

When did Kane take Rey's mask? Why didn't we hear anything from Rey, WWE.com or Kane?

Why is there such confusion about it? Why was Kane referring to something internal? Why didn't Mike Adamle want to do it (in Kane's words)?

This storyline, so far, is a mess. I'm willing to see where it goes. I'm hoping that Kane is giving cryptic clues. Worst case scenario: It was the WWE trying to shock us with something "random."

[Mr. Nerfect]

I've said it before and I'll say it even if it does happen: Kane going back to the mask would be completely stupid and utterly useless.

Your opinion is your own, but utterly useless? Do you realise how much money the WWE could make in selling Kane masks? It would also refresh the Kane character by taking it to a zone where it was once so successful. Then there is the raw nostalgia factor. Kane could actually get a decent push with the mask.

[Afterlife]

Evil Kane kidnapped Rey after his match with Santino and has been fucking with him ever since. That's how he got the mask. Normal Kane is only mildly aware of Evil Kane's actions and intentions, so he was frantic from being left out.

There are definitely ways to make things make sense. ASking questions that haven't been answered after the storyline's INTRODUCTORY promo, and calling them "unanswerable holes" is a little much.

[Afterlife]

Your opinion is your own, but utterly useless? Do you realise how much money the WWE could make in selling Kane masks? It would also refresh the Kane character by taking it to a zone where it was once so successful. Then there is the raw nostalgia factor. Kane could actually get a decent push with the mask.

Bullshit. NOstalgia is only nostalgia when the thing you want isn't there. Nostalgia sells Kane DVDs. Nostalgia sells Kane masks wether he wears them or not. But let's not play games: taking off the fucking mask turned him into an unstoppable monster, and look where that went. Why the hell would putting it back on do fucking anything?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Evil Kane kidnapped Rey after his match with Santino and has been fucking with him ever since. That's how he got the mask. Normal Kane is only mildly aware of Evil Kane's actions and intentions, so he was frantic from being left out.

There are definitely ways to make things make sense. ASking questions that haven't been answered after the storyline's INTRODUCTORY promo, and calling them "unanswerable holes" is a little much.

So why hasn't the WWE reported the disappearance of Rey Mysterio? Has Kane been wearing it to the Mysterio dinner table?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Bullshit. NOstalgia is only nostalgia when the thing you want isn't there. Nostalgia sells Kane DVDs. Nostalgia sells Kane masks wether he wears them or not. But let's not play games: taking off the fucking mask turned him into an unstoppable monster, and look where that went. Why the hell would putting it back on do fucking anything?

Because putting it back on would once again turn him into an unstoppable monster. Movement does Kane's character good. At least for a time. It's also been five years since Kane lost the mask. The WWE has changed a lot, and in some ways become more desperate. A marketable masked Kane could definitely get more of a push than he once did.

[Afterlife]

Putting the mask on him does nothing. All it does is remask a guy for no reason. Taking it off "unleashed" his inner monster; exposed his evil. That made sense. Putting it on and hiding what we already know he looks like does....what, exactly?

[Hanso Amore]

They could make the mask work. His inner demon wants to return him to the days he was still a monster (His debut) because that is when he was his best.

Something I just thought of going off what Afterlife said.

So we just ignore everything that maskes no sense. Kane Kidnapped Rey and has been tormenting him. Kane is now evil kane again, hurting people left andright. eventually someone is able to talk the Good kane's persona out again, and he will struggle to supress evil kane for awhile, until he remasks himself, since taking it off unleashed his inner demon, putting it back on controls it.

Obviously I am not the best writer, but something liek that could be very cool.

[Hanso Amore]

Kane would then have sort of a 3 faces of Foley. 3 personalities.

Masked Kane- The innocent burn victim. Exacting revenge on the taker. Pre 2003
Unmasked Evil Kane- The cruel evil murderer Kane, who is the result of trauma and a life of abuse. 2003-Whenever he started being good again.
Unmasked Good Kane - The Kane we know today. Him trying to fit into society and be normal.

I wouldnt swap between them like Foley, but it could explain stuff. They really need to play off that Kane is a fucking loon, and there is alot going on in his head.

[Afterlife]

Kane's polarity has been on the verge of a multiple personality break for a long time. I think it could work if it's kept to mild measures.

[Afterlife]

So why hasn't the WWE reported the disappearance of Rey Mysterio? Has Kane been wearing it to the Mysterio dinner table?

If he's been at home training and finishing his recoup, who's to know? Besides, maybe Kane just busted in on him, smacked him around and took the damn mask. Rey's too embarassed to tell anyone and won't show up without it.

I'm not writing the story, I'm just giving options so you'll calm the hell down.

[TerranRich]

Honestly, with the whole "alive or dead" thing, I was truly expecting Mankind's mask to come out of that bag, not Mysterio's. But I can def see him pulling out random masks. Los Conquistadors' masks, Charlie Haas's goofy mask, Aldo Montoya's jock strap...

All classic. :shifty:

[TerranRich]

Also, it's been shown that Mysterio wears more than one mask at a time, to give one to the fans, so I'm sure Rey can just go into his Mask Closet, turn on the lights, show hundreds of racks with thousands of masks, and pull another one out.

[Afterlife]

What did Haas' mask look like?

[Mr. Nerfect]

If he's been at home training and finishing his recoup, who's to know? Besides, maybe Kane just busted in on him, smacked him around and took the damn mask. Rey's too embarassed to tell anyone and won't show up without it.

I'm not writing the story, I'm just giving options so you'll calm the hell down.

Calm the hell down? Chill man, I'm not getting worked up. Just saying I can't see the WWE going in the route you are going with it. I know I fantasy book all the time, and I'm not saying your idea is bad, I'm just saying that you presenting it as a good outcome of where this storyline could be going is a little weird. The WWE is not going to unmask Rey Mysterio, simply because he sells too much merchandise with it. It also doesn't make sense in relation to how the WWE usually does their storylines. Simple and chronological, with the audience being present even when they shouldn't be.

If you meant us calming down as a collective regarding the general outrage this storyline seems to be heading, then I appreciate you waiting to see where it's going, which is what I think most of us have agreed to do, it's just that the storyline could have been handled much better. I mean, this Rey thing could turn out to be good. It's not the easiest way to make this good, though, and played off the expectations people had. The reason people had those expectations was because they wanted the WWE to go in that direction. There are times when playing against audience expectations can be good (when people are expecting shit, and you deliver awesomeness, for example). But when people want something, and you jerk them around, it's a bad way to play against expectations.

The reason people have reacted like this, is mainly because they are disappointed. If you go over this thread, you'll see a lot of people who say "Well, I was interested in where this is going." If it turns out awesome, more power to the WWE, but they've lost a lot of people they had with this angle, and they have no one to blame for that but themselves.

Besides, if Kane did unmask Mysterio, then why couldn't Rey put on one of his other fifty million masks?

You know I love you, Afterlife. :kiss:

[Mr. Nerfect]

Putting the mask on him does nothing. All it does is remask a guy for no reason. Taking it off "unleashed" his inner monster; exposed his evil. That made sense. Putting it on and hiding what we already know he looks like does....what, exactly?

Putting a mask on him revives a marketable image and nostalgic feelings of the Kane character. I'm not going to reverse myself on this. Yes, there is a feeling of the Big Red Machine that will always carry with Kane, but if you unmasked Jason Voorhees, and then he went back to the mask a number of years later, don't convince yourself that it wouldn't sell, even if there was a story and fictional "improvement" in the direction of the Voorhees character for removing the mask.

Taking it off unleashed a more psychotic and human Kane. It was revealed his scars were more mental than physical, and he became something more of a broken mind than a soulless machine. That was cool. But now Kane is sort of running dry again, and this is coming from an epic Kane mark.

If taking the mask off Kane can somehow make him better (in a kayfabe sense), then why can't putting the mask on him be given the same effect? For example, what if Kane dipped his face in a bucket of acid? That is a deeply psychotic act, and would probably horrify a lot of little kids in the audience, and create a new arc for Kane. Not just revert back to an old one. Why can't Kane miss the good old days when he used to block out pain, and wreck things like a well-oiled killing machine? Why can't a new mask bridge the gap between psychotic Kane and supernatural Kane?

Another position of putting Kane in a new costume, is that it would allow him to hide his physique. I like Kane, but he's not longer the tanned, ripped fiend he was under the mask. He's still a big guy, and strong as hell, but he's a lot less intimidating than he used to be, physically. A costumed Kane could help hide that, and allow the imagination to fill in the blanks.

You seem to be under the assumption that Kane reverting to the mask has to be a step backwards, rather than a new path for Kane to follow.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Also, Haas has a few masks. At least two. They were pretty much just generic luchadore things. One was red, and another was blue. Not sure if he had more.

[TerranRich]

Expect both of those masks to turn up in Kane's creepy mask collection soon.

[Afterlife]

Calm the hell down? Chill man, I'm not getting worked up. Just saying I can't see the WWE going in the route you are going with it. I know I fantasy book all the time, and I'm not saying your idea is bad, I'm just saying that you presenting it as a good outcome of where this storyline could be going is a little weird. The WWE is not going to unmask Rey Mysterio, simply because he sells too much merchandise with it. It also doesn't make sense in relation to how the WWE usually does their storylines. Simple and chronological, with the audience being present even when they shouldn't be.

If you meant us calming down as a collective regarding the general outrage this storyline seems to be heading, then I appreciate you waiting to see where it's going, which is what I think most of us have agreed to do, it's just that the storyline could have been handled much better. I mean, this Rey thing could turn out to be good. It's not the easiest way to make this good, though, and played off the expectations people had. The reason people had those expectations was because they wanted the WWE to go in that direction. There are times when playing against audience expectations can be good (when people are expecting shit, and you deliver awesomeness, for example). But when people want something, and you jerk them around, it's a bad way to play against expectations.

The reason people have reacted like this, is mainly because they are disappointed. If you go over this thread, you'll see a lot of people who say "Well, I was interested in where this is going." If it turns out awesome, more power to the WWE, but they've lost a lot of people they had with this angle, and they have no one to blame for that but themselves.

Besides, if Kane did unmask Mysterio, then why couldn't Rey put on one of his other fifty million masks?

You know I love you, Afterlife. :kiss:

Here's one: Maybe Kane just swiped that damn mask. Maybe Kane was talking about Mysterio's career being dead because he's a physical wreck and hardly worth his name. Maybe it has nothing to do with unmasking him at all.

Also, the reason I'm seeing for people to be "uninterested" is because they were wrong about the contents of the bag. Which leads me to....

Putting a mask on him revives a marketable image and nostalgic feelings of the Kane character. I'm not going to reverse myself on this. Yes, there is a feeling of the Big Red Machine that will always carry with Kane, but if you unmasked Jason Voorhees, and then he went back to the mask a number of years later, don't convince yourself that it wouldn't sell, even if there was a story and fictional "improvement" in the direction of the Voorhees character for removing the mask.

Taking it off unleashed a more psychotic and human Kane. It was revealed his scars were more mental than physical, and he became something more of a broken mind than a soulless machine. That was cool. But now Kane is sort of running dry again, and this is coming from an epic Kane mark.

If taking the mask off Kane can somehow make him better (in a kayfabe sense), then why can't putting the mask on him be given the same effect? For example, what if Kane dipped his face in a bucket of acid? That is a deeply psychotic act, and would probably horrify a lot of little kids in the audience, and create a new arc for Kane. Not just revert back to an old one. Why can't Kane miss the good old days when he used to block out pain, and wreck things like a well-oiled killing machine? Why can't a new mask bridge the gap between psychotic Kane and supernatural Kane?

Another position of putting Kane in a new costume, is that it would allow him to hide his physique. I like Kane, but he's not longer the tanned, ripped fiend he was under the mask. He's still a big guy, and strong as hell, but he's a lot less intimidating than he used to be, physically. A costumed Kane could help hide that, and allow the imagination to fill in the blanks.

You seem to be under the assumption that Kane reverting to the mask has to be a step backwards, rather than a new path for Kane to follow.

...The saddest part about it. You said it yourself, putting the mask on him would be "reverting" to the old shtick. Revertion is a step back. And the reason it's so sad is that everyone here must admit it's the only thing you can think of.

Kane has been knocked around so much that the only way the fans can figure to "move him forward" is to back track 5 years. As if, even after all this time, his character still teeters on a mask he doesn't even wear. Kane was an emphatic ECW champion; there is no reason his steam should blow out before he's in contention for the title on RAW, except that the writers are apparently as creative as at least our portion of the IWC.

[Afterlife]

Also, I love you too. Kisses. :love:

[darkpower]

I think the mask would be more than just swiping a mask to Mysterio in a storyline when considering the tradition of the mask for Mexican wrestlers (remember that whole thing in WCW that lasted FOREVER about Mysterio's mask). It could be the symbolism of having the mask of someone who "believes" in that whole traditional thing.

This is why I still think we may see an unmasked Rey (why not) in the future. A Filthy Animals revival would also be fun. Have Kane by one of them to start the stable or something.

[Xero]

I think the mask would be more than just swiping a mask to Mysterio in a storyline when considering the tradition of the mask for Mexican wrestlers (remember that whole thing in WCW that lasted FOREVER about Mysterio's mask). It could be the symbolism of having the mask of someone who "believes" in that whole traditional thing.

Yeah, except Rey shat all over that tradition when he put the mask back on.

Not saying WWE wouldn't do that, but tradition went out long ago.

And while we're at it, why would Rey have to come out unmasked? He's had like 50 different masks. Does he throw them away after each match and buys a new one?

[Lock Jaw]

Its the same mask, he just alters it to look different every time.

[thedamndest]

WHAT IF IT'S A SWERVE AND KANE AND REY ARE COLLUDING TOGETHER AS HEELS AND KANE DOES COME BACK MASKED SOMEHOW AND REY COMES BACK A HEEL? EH?

[darkpower]

Yeah, except Rey shat all over that tradition when he put the mask back on.

Not saying WWE wouldn't do that, but tradition went out long ago.

And while we're at it, why would Rey have to come out unmasked? He's had like 50 different masks. Does he throw them away after each match and buys a new one?

I think it's not that he lost a mask, it's that someone ELSE was the one that STOLE a mask. Hence the symbolism of the whole thing. Rey could have masks in storage for sure, but the tradition is, as far as I remember it, is that part of the cred of a wrestler is symbolic within the mask (or something like that).

That and as someone else pointed out, it may be the current character of Mysterio that is "dead", and the mask is the most symbolic with the current Mysterio gimmick. Remember how the core ECW crowd shat all over Psycosis when he came out without a mask at the first ONS in 1995. They were ready to boo him out of the building because the mask is so symbolic to the character they remembered him as. The Rey unmasked thing didn't do THAT with too many people, though it might NOW for a few people who hang onto tradition.

[Afterlife]

I hate dags.

[Lock Jaw]

Next week he should pull out that ridiculous headdress thing that Rey wore at Wrestlemania Whatever.

[TerranRich]

darkpower, don't you mean 2005? ECW didn't even do pay-per-views in 1995. :P

[Rammsteinmad]

HOLY SHIT! I JUST REALISED SOMETHING!!! SPOILERS IN BLACK!!! HIGHLIGHT TO READ!!!

I believe this is the first thread of mine to reach 100 replies. :rofl:

[NeanderCarl]

If Kane ever puts the mask back on, there should be a proper build up and a reason that makes sense.... not just "if Kane puts the mask on, he becomes even more of a monster than he already is". It's the whole "Mick Foley isn't a glorified broken-down jobber when he wears a different T-shirt" thing again.

Maybe if something tragic happened to him over a series of events that broke him down to a shadow of his former self, culminating in some horrific facial injury that put him on the shelf for a few months, and upon his return he is masked and badass again... that would be more understandable.

[Xero]

But, again, if they were to do that and inevitably take it off again they'd need to explain the lack of real injury... Again.

[Afterlife]

Which adds to the uselessness of putting it on.

[Savio]

they could have him kill Mysterio, and don his mask which would give him luchador powers

[TerranRich]

OR... they could have him kill Mysterio, and don the mask. ;)

[Xero]

Kane could put the mask on his 6 foot dick and be like Johnny Knoxville's character in MIB2.

[Afterlife]

*Ahem* I think I can say "I told ya so". :D

[U-Warrior]

Wait, so did they just completely ignore the angle this week? Don't see anything in the results.

[Lux]

My guess, heel turn by the new music he has, i actually liked his new theme, a remixed/better version of his old theme when he wore his masked "Burned" was the title of his old theme

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yeah, except Rey shat all over that tradition when he put the mask back on.

Not saying WWE wouldn't do that, but tradition went out long ago.

And while we're at it, why would Rey have to come out unmasked? He's had like 50 different masks. Does he throw them away after each match and buys a new one?

That's pretty much exactly my problem with it. I got pissed off when Rey came off an epic feud with Eddie Guerrero, and then suddenly became the only guy who loved him, judging by how he got pushed after Eddie's death. Rey suddenly becoming a champion of Mexican tradition would not sit well with me.

But Afterlife, you were sort of right. My hat's off to you. Now you can say that you are as smart as a WWE writer. Watch out, Freddie. :p

Seriously, though, it sounds like the WWE just scavenged to put something together out of this. Even though your idea was good, and the WWE seems to be doing something similar to it (without the unmasking Rey and Oscar stuff), I'm still finding it riddled with holes and played expectations that led nowhere but disappointment. I still think it's the WWE shocking for the sake of shocking, and then somehow needing to land it.

Also, putting Kane in a mask wouldn't necessarily be a reversion. You're into keeping your mind open. There are plenty of ways to get a mask on Kane, and it act as a step forward. New music, new costume, new mask and a new dominant streak with a story behind it all. There are plenty of ways they could do it.

[U-Warrior]

Fucking raw results in the headlines, are missing the entire Kane segment.

[Destor]

He came out and said he beat up Rey in a parking lot 6 weekas ago. Rey is slim blah blah blah. His spirit is dead. Blah Blah Blah. I'm going to be Dominics pappie now. Blah Blah Blah. New theme music. Blah Blah Blah. Etc.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'd like to see Kane with new attire, by the way. His attire lacks fire, which has a pretty big significance with Kane.

[DaVe]

I now don't think the mask is really needed for Kane, anymore. I mean, before when I thought it was what he had in his bag that it was what he needed. But I liked what I saw of this new Kane. Keep going with this new deranged persona and theme music, and perhaps also give him new attire to fit his persona. Maybe cover him up again. At least give him a shirt.

[Londoner]

I'm liking this kane storyline/his new music, i think i prefer this over getting his old mask back. Gotta agree with afterlife on this one.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Well, I am liking that they are going somewhere with Kane. I don't feel that he needs the mask back, specifically, but he could just use a stronger direction. The mask would accomplish this (it's like a wrestler turning face/heel, it just freshens them up), but this more psychopathic direction for Kane seems to be getting the job done.

I'd mark out for him killing Rey, that's all I'm going to add.

[TerranRich]

Allow me to translate for those of you who cannot read more than one line of text per Noid post:

"Kane = good, no mask needed... could be used, but psycho-ness = greatness, Rey needs to die"

[Afterlife]

Yeah, because 4 lines is soooo hard to get thru. :roll: :p

[Londoner]

I'm interested to see what they do with rey now to, since he's been 'tortured and scarred beyond all human recognition'

[Savio]

I dunno it sounds like they might turn rey in to a dog or something.

[screech]

I'm not a big fan of the new music, but it does fit him. I like that he's getting the red lights again, that was always a big part of the entrance for me. I don't think he needs the mask back (it wouldn't necessarily be bad), but new attire is a must. He's been wearing the same pants forever and he needs to change along with this new character. And he could use a shirt, kinda like the one he wore in 2003 (I think that's the year) when he had the smaller mask.

[Londoner]

Don't think i would like him wearing a shirt, would make no sense really. Also his theme is just fine. :)

[Lock Jaw]

In honor of the new Kane:

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