Foley or Gail Kim, which is the better deal.

[SuperSlim]

Okay I'm at this other message board and this other guy is really startin to piss me off cause he can't seem to listen to logic how a wrestling legend is a better pick and can do better things for your entire promotion over another talented women's wrestler.

But hey maybe I'm wrong and you all typically know your stuff so I'm going to ask you... also reasonings behind would be beneficial.

Who got the better deal.

Foley to TNA?
Gail Kim to WWE?

Discuss.

[Xero]

As much as I loathe the decision (mainly because I feel it's wasteful), Foley to TNA is a MUCH better deal.

Anyone who picks Kim is kidding themselves.

[Ruien]

Guess I am kidding myself. Foley's time is passed.

[DAMN iNATOR]

As much as I loathe the decision (mainly because I feel it's wasteful), Foley to TNA is a MUCH better deal.

Anyone who picks Kim is kidding themselves.

NEVER underestimate the value of a hot young asian girl...

ANYONE who says she isn't hot based on the pic I posted is either GAY or a DAMN LIAR!

[Xero]

Yeah, she's hot. Unfortunately it's pretty much been proven that asses like that don't equal wrestling ratings.

Foley will bring more fans to TNA than Kim will bring to WWE. That alone makes Foley superior. Add that to the fact that the Women's division means jack shit and Foley is clearly the better deal.

[Kane Knight]

Oh God. Gail Kim for sure. WWE always uses their hot talented Deevers so well that there's no way this can go wrong.

[Destor]

The active wrestler. They've stolen TNA's no.1 female, that'sa huge hit to their womens divison. And hopefully the E can use with the abilities of a Kim to shift their focus in the womens division on wrestling and give the female audience something to get behind and not just another pretty face.

And Xero, Foley proved a long time ago he isn't gonna draw ratings either.

Gail's potential is greater than Foley's, WWE gets a new young wrestler, and TNA gets another has been.

[Destor]

Also DAMN iNATOR that pic is terrible

[Xero]

The active wrestler. They've stolen TNA's no.1 female, that'sa huge hit to their womens divison. And hopefully the E can use with the abilities of a Kim to shift their focus in the womens division on wrestling and give the female audience something to get behind and not just another pretty face.

And Xero, Foley proved a long time ago he isn't gonna draw ratings either.

Gail's potential is greater than Foley's, WWE gets a new young wrestler, and TNA gets another has been.



Kim was a giant loss for TNA, no doubt about that. They have the better of the two Women's divisions. But WWE's pick up of Kim in no way will improve the way they book the women's division. Sure, you might get a good match here or there, but Women's wrestling will NEVER be seen as serious competition in WWE. It hasn't been for 20 years and never will be. It will ALWAYS be about the TNA first and foremost and the actual wrestlers and wrestling matches will be overshadowed by bikini contests and bullshit like that.

I'm not trying to justify TNA hiring Foley. I think it's a ridiculous move. But comparing the two moves, Foley's name alone will draw more than Kim ever will in WWE.

It comes down to either TNA getting name power and a new, known character on TV and WWE getting a jobber* who will never amount to anything more than a side show attraction. TNA clearly has the better deal here, but they took the bigger hit.

*I consider all WWE women jobbers compared to other divisions.

[Destor]

Kim was a giant loss for TNA, no doubt about that. They have the better of the two Women's divisions. But WWE's pick up of Kim in no way will improve the way they book the women's division. Sure, you might get a good match here or there, but Women's wrestling will NEVER be seen as serious competition in WWE. It hasn't been for 20 years and never will be. It will ALWAYS be about the TNA first and foremost and the actual wrestlers and wrestling matches will be overshadowed by bikini contests and bullshit like that.Completely true. But Kim has the ability to be what Trish was (to a lesser extent.) A diva with class, who can win the T&A segments and REALLY get it done in the ring as well. IF you don't think Trish was a draw I think you're mistkaing. And lets not forget all the revenue they make off their divas in posters, DVDs, calenders, etc. Diva draw a lot of cash for the WWE. More so than announcers...

I'm not trying to justify TNA hiring Foley. I think it's a ridiculous move. But comparing the two moves, Foley's name alone will draw more than Kim ever will in WWE.

It comes down to either TNA getting name power and a new, known character on TV and WWE getting a jobber* who will never amount to anything more than a side show attraction. TNA clearly has the better deal here, but they took the bigger hit.Again don't agree with this.

Foley hasn't drawn ANYTING in a while. On top that of that if he was making his first appearence in awhile then MAYBE it would do something for TNA. Truth is the ENTIRE wrestling audience just say him on WWE, so it's not big that he's showing up in TNA. This isn't going to do anything for TNA at all. What do they have to gain for having FOley? He isn't going to boost ratings, PPV buyrates, he doesn't have any merch to shill (and on top of that he's always taken a HUGE chunk of of the merch pot since his days in the indies.) There is nothing for TNA to gain from this, the WWE however does at least have the POTENTIAL to get SOMETHING out of this.

Foley is terrible move for TNA (great for Foley's pocket though.) The only way TNA can benifit from it is if they get Foley to work some matches. And I don't see a lot of that happening. And even then it would only be good for one or two matches TOPS.


*I consider all WWE women jobbers compared to other divisions.
You know I dont agree with this, but I'm a women's wrestling mark.

[Kane Knight]

Is Kim really a loss or stolen, since they didn't renew her contract?

[Fox]

Foley hasn't drawn ANYTING in a while. On top that of that if he was making his first appearence in awhile then MAYBE it would do something for TNA. Truth is the ENTIRE wrestling audience just say him on WWE, so it's not big that he's showing up in TNA. This isn't going to do anything for TNA at all. What do they have to gain for having FOley? He isn't going to boost ratings, PPV buyrates, he doesn't have any merch to shill (and on top of that he's always taken a HUGE chunk of of the merch pot since his days in the indies.) There is nothing for TNA to gain from this, the WWE however does at least have the POTENTIAL to get SOMETHING out of this.

Foley is terrible move for TNA (great for Foley's pocket though.) The only way TNA can benifit from it is if they get Foley to work some matches. And I don't see a lot of that happening. And even then it would only be good for one or two matches TOPS.

Okay, to say that Foley hasn't drawn anything in awhile is kind of lame. I mean shit, that's like saying Michael Jackson hasn't drawn lately. No shit - it's cause he's not making music anymore and entertaining people. Foley hasn't been an active wrestler since 2000. Of COURSE he hasn't drawn anything in awhile.

But that doesn't mean he's not great. The little stints that he has come back for have been superb almost every time. His feud with Evolution was amazing. His match against Randy Orton at Backlash 04 still holds up as one of the best matches I've ever seen. Simply an amazing fight. His promos with Flair before their debacle at SS were entertaining. And though his work in ECW at ONS2 was subpar, the previous months' feud with Edge was fantastic. Then we come to his short period as announcer on Smackdown, which was the best I've heard Smackdown sound EVER.

So, what does TNA have to gain out of Mick Foley? His promos are almost always gold and the man can talk his heart out.

We have the potential of seeing Kurt Angle vs. Mick Foley - a match that could possibly be great. We could see Foley vs. Christian, which, if just for the mic time alone, would be fantastic. Foley vs. Samoa Joe, which would be brutal to say the least.

There is potential for Foley in TNA. It's all going to depend on how they use him. I know TNA hasn't had the best track record in the past few months (I am still wanting to kill Vince Russo) but all of this hate on Foley joining them seems so half-assed. He hasn't even shown up yet. Give them a freaking chance.

You're all like BDC when Jericho came back.

[Destor]

Okay, to say that Foley hasn't drawn anything in awhile is kind of lame. I mean shit, that's like saying Michael Jackson hasn't drawn lately. No shit - it's cause he's not making music anymore and entertaining people. Foley hasn't been an active wrestler since 2000. Of COURSE he hasn't drawn anything in awhile.

Foley has had several matches since he retired and none of them sparked interest in the fans. He doesn't draw. But to be fair neither did Micheal Jackson when he tried to make a come back...what was your point again?

As for the rest of it...has foley been entertaining? Yes. But I don't htink TNA stands to make any money off of this fact. I don't expect him to work many (if any matches) and the ones he does do I don't expect to draw anymore than the usual. I do however expect the WWE to make a nice chunk of change off Gail Kim.

Now this isnt to say I'm not going to enjoy Foley in TNA, but I expect Kim's second WWE to be better for WWE than Foley's run in TNA will be for TNA. Which was the question. It had nothing to do with me hating TNA or Foley. It's just that I thikn WWE has the better deal in Kim.

The best thing TNA can do with Foley is have him announce and that is SO not gonna put butts in the seats and generate any kind of money for them in any way shpae form or fashion. His glory days are behind him. (And lets not forget that NO ONE TNA has brought in has managed to draw for them, even bigger/more relevent stars.)

Kim has boobs. Teens like boobs. They like to put boobs on their wall. WWE will sell pictures of Kim boobs to put on said walls. WWE will make profit.

Maybe TNA should get Foley to wear a bra? That could work.

[Ruien]

Anyone else read Gail has not signed with WWE yet and have been talking with TNA once again. To see if they will give her more money.

[Destor]

Hope so for my sake. TNA's womens division is "the shit."

[NeanderCarl]

To say Foley hasn't sparked interest since coming out of retirement is dead wrong. The Rock n Sock reunion, the feud with Orton, the feud/alliance with Edge and, to a lesser extent, the feud with Flair all sparked interest.

But TNA got the better deal with Foley even if he never sets foot in the ring, or even in front of the cameras. Just having his mind on board wins out over WWE possibly signing Gail Kim.

[Destor]

To say Foley hasn't sparked interest since coming out of retirement is dead wrong. The Rock n Sock reunion, the feud with Orton, the feud/alliance with Edge and, to a lesser extent, the feud with Flair all sparked interest.
If you say so brother...

[NeanderCarl]

Maybe not in the sense that he could be the main event, but as an upper mid card act, he can spark plentiful interest. And that also due to how he was presented... Foley knows how to work a stick and sell a feud. If TNA wanted him in a main event program, he could MAKE the fans care again. He knows how to get over.

Think about it, you don't give a fuck about ANYBODY who walks down the aisle until they give you a reason to care. Foley has been in ruts before... remember mid 98, after the Dude Love run, when no one gave a shit? Even for a few months after HIAC he wasn't seriously over, until he reinvented himself as a goof. Or late 99, when Mankind had fallen in the fans affections, until he made them care about Cactus Jack again and main evented three best selling PPVs back to back?

Just because maybe you didn't give a shit about anything post-retirement doesn't mean you can speak for the masses... brother.

[NeanderCarl]

Also, was Foley vs Orton not widely regarded as the match and feud of the year in 2004, in all the mags, websites etc.?

[Destor]

Actually, I did care about his matches post retirement and think they were all very good save the Flair match (holy crap did Foley stink that one up.) But buyrates didn't increse for any of these matches or angles, why? Because no one besides the smarks give a fuck. His best days are behind him and bringing him in as a worker isn't going to get anyone anywhere. And it hasn't for sometime. It's sad, but true. He had a great run and reached the top of the buisness, unfortunatly for him that was then and this is now. He isn't a draw anymore.

[NeanderCarl]

I doubt Foley ever attracted new fans, but he may well attract lapsed fans or WWE fans.

You cannot measure whether any of Foley's matches added to a buyrate because he was never in a featured main event spot (save a five way match at one event last year, and even then he can't shoulder any of the burden of the events success, or maybe only a fifth of it). I very much doubt he hurt any of the buyrates. I'm not sure how he fared, TV ratings wise, but at the end of the day he's Mick Foley, a wrestling legend and still capable of having good matches in a limited capacity. He's a bargain for TNA.

[NeanderCarl]

By the way, the first Flair match was deliberately bad (Foley even announced on Raw that he was planning to "stink" the place out for their match), to set the stage for the SummerSlam match which in my opinion was okay, and one of Flair's better matches of the last five years.

[Destor]

Basically you're saying he may or may not generate money. Well I'm saying Gail Kim posters of her in a thong WILL FOR A FACT generate money.

And that last part of your post is rediculous. Flair had better matches with Rob Conway than that garbage with Foley.

[Fox]

Actually, I did care about his matches post retirement and think they were all very good save the Flair match (holy crap did Foley stink that one up.) But buyrates didn't increse for any of these matches or angles, why? Because no one besides the smarks give a fuck. His best days are behind him and bringing him in as a worker isn't going to get anyone anywhere. And it hasn't for sometime. It's sad, but true. He had a great run and reached the top of the buisness, unfortunatly for him that was then and this is now. He isn't a draw anymore.

Dude, how can you say that "bringing him in as a worker isn't going to get anyone anywhere and it hasn't for some time"? Did you SEE his feud with Randy Orton? That's the one that shot him to the top. That's the feud that made him more popular than any of his evolution cohorts including Triple H. He was getting massive heat and was generating interest, not because Orton is amazing, but because Foley made him look amazing.

That "IC Title match" on RAW where Foley walked out instead of getting into the ring? Genius. Losing at WrestleMania XX? Definitely put Orton over there. And then getting his ass kicked at Backlash solidified Orton as a main event player. He won the World Title a few months later at Summerslam, HOT off the heels of his feud with Foley.

He can make young guys into stars. Like I said before, Foley vs. Joe/Angle/Sting/Christian would be boss, and that's like four feuds right there, all of which I would tune in to see, and I think a lot of other people would too.

You are totally underestimating Foley's value not just as a wrestler/performer but as a wrestling mind, and I really don't understand why.

[El Fangel]

Foley is God

[RVDmark]

Foley has had several matches since he retired and none of them sparked interest in the fans.

Bullshit.

[RVDmark]

Although it does have to be said, it would be nice for him to win a match once in a while. He's the complete oppostite of Hulk Hogan. Whenever Hogan appears its a guarantee'd Hogan win. Whenever Foley appears its almost always a Foley loss.

[Destor]

Dude, how can you say that "bringing him in as a worker isn't going to get anyone anywhere and it hasn't for some time"? Did you SEE his feud with Randy Orton? That's the one that shot him to the top. That's the feud that made him more popular than any of his evolution cohorts including Triple H. He was getting massive heat and was generating interest, not because Orton is amazing, but because Foley made him look amazing.

That "IC Title match" on RAW where Foley walked out instead of getting into the ring? Genius. Losing at WrestleMania XX? Definitely put Orton over there. And then getting his ass kicked at Backlash solidified Orton as a main event player. He won the World Title a few months later at Summerslam, HOT off the heels of his feud with Foley.

He can make young guys into stars. Like I said before, Foley vs. Joe/Angle/Sting/Christian would be boss, and that's like four feuds right there, all of which I would tune in to see, and I think a lot of other people would too.

You are totally underestimating Foley's value not just as a wrestler/performer but as a wrestling mind, and I really don't understand why.You guys really cant seem to grasp that quality wrestling angles/matches doesn't = drawing money. Gail will generate money. Foley will not. If quality is what made money then Cena would be no where near the main event and RoH would be the no.1 company in the world.

He is, and they aren't.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Gotta agree with Gail being the better pick up. If nothing else she'll generate profit off of posters, merch, etc. As well as boost WWE's already newly promising woman's division. Foley isn't going to do anything for TNA that Angle and Sting already proved they themselves could not do.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Oh and nevermind the biggest point out of all of this, Gail Kim being gone from TNA is a HUGE blow to their woman's division which has been a focus of their show, Foley being gone from WWE isn't a loss really at all.

[GD]

NEVER underestimate the value of a hot young asian girl...

ANYONE who says she isn't hot based on the pic I posted is either GAY or a DAMN LIAR!

The way she shakes it...my p p goes doing doing doing!!!

[ClockShot]

I'll agree that Gail Kim is the better pick up. Pending on which show she'll land on. If it's Raw, we'll get some matches out of Beth Phoenix, Mickie James, and maybe an emerging Kelly Kelly. Smackdownwise, all she got is Victoria and Nattie Neidhart. Unless McTaker is getting lessons from the Dead Man or somebody else. But I read on the news page that she hasn't signed a contract with the E yet. She's trying to maybe re-work something with TNA. We'll see what happens.

What TNA has planned for Mick Foley is anybody's guess. Might be an easier schedule for him since it's a couple house shows then back to homebase for Impact. Is he gonna commentate, manage, wrestle? I ain't got a clue. I guess it's a step up from Robot Wars (now airing on the Science Channel. Check your local listings.) Unless he needs cash or he's gotta another bestseller on the way, I may tune in. I love the Micker and all, but he's gotta call it a career.

[Dorkchop]

Gail leaving TNA is worse for TNA that Foley leaving WWE is for WWE. Don't the knockouts' matches draw some of the the highest ratings for TNA?

WWE doesn't really push talented female wrestlers (look at Victoria) as talented female wrestlers. Just take a look at Victoria. She's probably the best female wrestler in WWE and she's a non stop jobber. WWE will probably make Gail Kim drop her last name and just be Gail because at least one third of of the Divas need just one boring name. I'm curious how they'll use her and if they'll actually make their womens' division more competitive.

[BigDaddyCool]

Kim is a better deal. Anyone who thinks other wise is gay with a bear fetish.