The Wrestler

[Indifferent Clox]

So this movie directed by Darren Aronofsky (Requim for a Dream, Pi, The Fountain) starring Mickey Rourke (sin city) and Marisa Tomei (you know) looks to be amazing. I think it may draw in a whole new crowd of wrestling fans, it has some wrestlers in it, and Darren Aronofsky went to some ROH shows. I think it's pretty cool that he chose ROH.

Now most wrestling movies are somewhere between eh and omg wtf but this director is one of the greats of this generation of filmmakers. It has already won some awards at some film festivals. I can't wait!

what do you guys think? Can it possibly bring in more people and allow them to accept the sport a little more?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Professional wrestling is seen as a little silly, but Darren Aronofsky's films are generally high-regarded culturally, so if he puts a positive spin on the wrestling industry, explains the ins and outs of the business, and makes it appear more like an art than a freak show, then perhaps it could.

Is that what Aronofsky is doing, though? I assume so, because he had co-operation from ROH and others within the industry. I doubt it'll be something that trashes professional wrestling too much. Is it going to focus on actual wrestling, or is it about two people in the story, and their romance? Wrestling might not even be a focus of the story, and there might actually be only one or two wrestling scenes.

Does anyone know anything about this movie?

[Mr. Nerfect]

If I were Gabe Sapolsky, I'd be calling Darren Aronofsky and asking whether he can get a little documentary feature on ROH included in the DVD, and maybe a few matches from the company's history placed as extras on it.

[Indifferent Clox]

I know the plot:

This wrestler has to retire because of his heart, but he really loves the sport he ends up getting with a girl who has some baggage and he is coerced back into the ring to face his rival.

[Anybody Thrilla]

That plot sounds kinda dumb, but I'd watch it anyway.

[Indifferent Clox]

Randy "Ram" Robinson (Mickey Rourke) is a professional wrestler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_wrestler) from the 1980s who is forced to retire after a heart attack threatens to kill him the next time he wrestles. He takes a job at a deli, attempts to form a relationship with an aging stripper (Marisa Tomei) and does his best to reconcile with his estranged daughter (Evan Rachel Wood). However, he is drawn to the prospect of a rematch with his old wrestling nemesis the Ayatollah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayatollah) (Ernest Miller), even though the fight may cost him his life.<sup id="cite_ref-moves_2-0" class="reference">[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wrestler_%282008_film%29#cite_note-moves-2)</sup>


A new Bruce Springsteen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Springsteen) song of the same title plays in an acoustic arrangement over the film's closing credits.<sup id="cite_ref-3" class="reference">[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wrestler_%282008_film%29#cite_note-3)</sup>

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Wrestler_%282008_film%29&action=edit&section=3)] Cast



Mickey Rourke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mickey_Rourke) as Randy "Ram" Robinson
Ernest Miller (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Miller) as "Ayatollah"<sup id="cite_ref-4" class="reference">[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wrestler_%282008_film%29#cite_note-4)</sup>
Marisa Tomei (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marisa_Tomei) as the stripper<sup id="cite_ref-tomei_5-0" class="reference">[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wrestler_%282008_film%29#cite_note-tomei-5)</sup>
Todd Barry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Barry)<sup id="cite_ref-6" class="reference">[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wrestler_%282008_film%29#cite_note-6)</sup>
Evan Rachel Wood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evan_Rachel_Wood) as Randy "Ram" Robinson's estranged daughter

Also cast into The Wrestler are original ECW (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_Championship_Wrestling_%28WWE%29) and CZW (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZW) wrestlers: The Blue Meanie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blue_Meanie), Necro Butcher (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necro_Butcher), Nick Berk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Berk), DJ Hyde (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=DJ_Hyde&action=edit&redlink=1), Whacks (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Whacks&action=edit&redlink=1), Kid USA (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kid_USA&action=edit&redlink=1), and Zandig (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zandig).<sup id="cite_ref-7" class="reference">[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wrestler_%282008_film%29#cite_note-7)</sup>. Also WWE star R-Truth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-Truth) and former WWE star Romeo Roselli (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romeo_Roselli) have shot scenes for the movie.




-wikipedia


I mean come on it's darren aranofsky, he doesn't make bad movies

[BigDaddyCool]

Sounds dumb.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Are you talking about Ernest Miller as in Ernest "The Cat" Miller?

[Anybody Thrilla]

I mean come on it's darren aranofsky, he doesn't make bad movies

There's a first time for everything, my friend. Even the name of the wrestler, Randy "Ram" Robinson sounds terrible.

Also, are they going to treat wrestling as a real thing? Getting back into the ring to face your nemesis doesn't sound like something a real retired wrestler would be interested in.

[BigDaddyCool]

Are you talking about Ernest Miller as in Ernest "The Cat" Miller?

Yes.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I guess I am looking forward to The Blue Meanie's silver screen debut, though.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Oh wait, no I'm not.

I will watch this, but only so I will know how terrible a movie about wrestling can actually be. This will make Ready to Rumble look like Casablanca.

[BigDaddyCool]

There's a first time for everything, my friend. Even the name of the wrestler, Randy "Ram" Robinson sounds terrible.

Also, are they going to treat wrestling as a real thing? Getting back into the ring to face your nemesis doesn't sound like something a real retired wrestler would be interested in.

I agree, which is why it sounds dumb. Also, the way wrestling is set up, rarely do you have a great arch nemesis. I mean the only arch-nemesises I can think of is HBK and Bret Hart. Outside of that, shifting alliances and whatever, no one is anyone's blood enemy.

[BigDaddyCool]

Well, then there is Raven and Tommy Dreamer, but if Tommy was forced out because of a heart condition and had to have one last match again Raven, it would never draw more than a bingo hall's worth of people.

[BigDaddyCool]

Another thought, if there is any wrestling, it better be period acurate.

[Indifferent Clox]

No they don't treat it as real from what I understand.

[BigDaddyCool]

No they don't treat it as real from what I understand.

Then what is his motivation for getting back into the ring?

[Indifferent Clox]

And yes there is wrestling, I think you guys are underestimating this, it's been winning film festival awards and is way better than ready 2 rumble obv. omg

[Anybody Thrilla]

How did you come to that understanding?

[Indifferent Clox]

Because his rival wants to have another match with him, I would imagine he wants to do it for the fans.

[BigDaddyCool]

Winning film festival awards doesn't mean shit.

[Indifferent Clox]

From the little clips on youtube and discussions about the movie, nothing has been said outright but I am pretty sure from what is being suggested that it is Pro Wrestling as pro wrestling.

[Indifferent Clox]

It means it's good enough for elitist critics to enjoy even though it's about pro wrestling. I enjoy independent films, you guys may not so you may hate this.

[BigDaddyCool]

Because his rival wants to have another match with him, I would imagine he wants to do it for the fans.

His rival would be just as old as him then, and would be shit in the ring, so what promoter would put it on?

So the rival still wrestling would be like Hogan or Flair. And neither of them would call up old retired wrestlers to fight. Flair would try to help newbs out, while Hogan would try to beat the new maineventers. So the story makes no sence to me.

[Dave Youell]

The reviews I've read makes it sound like Rocky but without a montage, I'll still watch it.

[BigDaddyCool]

It means it's good enough for elitist critics to enjoy even though it's about pro wrestling. I enjoy independent films, you guys may not so you may hate this.

They could have been enjoying it ironicly. Those kind of assholes do that.

[Indifferent Clox]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cRDainAvvrk&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cRDainAvvrk&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[BigDaddyCool]

I'll give it a watch, but I'm expecting it to be way off base.

[Indifferent Clox]

It actually takes place in roh omg

[BigDaddyCool]

Wait, so his big come back match is in an RoH ring? This is retarded.

1) RoH isn't know for having "legends matches," it is a promotion mostly focused on up and coming no name talent.

2) There is no way in hell RoH could pay anyone enough to come out of retirement for a match that could kill them.

[Anybody Thrilla]

A movie being independent has no bearing on whether or not I'll like it. It's the movie being good that matters.

[Anybody Thrilla]

So don't start trying to act all snobby because you like independent films. YOU AIN'T ARTSIER THAN ME.

[BigDaddyCool]

Liking in movies is just like being an indy wrestling fan. You ain't no better than someone that watches the mainstream, it is still mostly shit with a few diamonds in the rough that get elevated to the mainstream.

[Indifferent Clox]

I am not trying to say I am, BDC just said what's the big deal about it winning a film festival award, and I was basically saying it's just really good indication of the movies goodness.

Those clips look amazing though.

And I'm sure the ROH stuff is gonna be great publicity for them.

[Indifferent Clox]

That's not true at all bdc, many wonderful indipedent films never see mainstream. Same with music, sometimes because the artist doesn't want them to sometimes because it's too much for mainstream consumption to avant garde or something.

[Indifferent Clox]

also I would say the percentage per movie mainstream to indie shittiness would be like mainstream 1/2 and indie 1/3 tbh

[Anybody Thrilla]

Totally arbitrary statistics based on a huge variance in opinions. No Clox.

[BigDaddyCool]

I am not trying to say I am, BDC just said what's the big deal about it winning a film festival award, and I was basically saying it's just really good indication of the movies goodness.

Those clips look amazing though.

And I'm sure the ROH stuff is gonna be great publicity for them.

It isn't a big deal because there are enough film festivals win some sort of award for your dumb film. The entire movie industry loves to give each hand jobs, why else would they have Cannes, Sundance, the Oscars, the Golden Globes, MTV Movie Awards, Emmy's, Toronto, Vience, Berlin, and Slam Dance. I mean there are enough awards given out by enough people looking for enough things that every movie is going to win a award.

And an Indy wrestling promotion being featured in an Indy movie isn't going to do shit. Now if it was Harold and Kumar go to RoH, then they would be great publicity.

[Anybody Thrilla]

That's not true at all bdc, many wonderful indipedent films never see mainstream. Same with music, sometimes because the artist doesn't want them to sometimes because it's too much for mainstream consumption to avant garde or something.

And some awesome mainstream stuff gets shunned just because people view it as mainstream. It could go either way.

[BigDaddyCool]

But if Harold and Kumar went to any wrestling show, it was be TNA.

[Indifferent Clox]

I think a lot more hipsters who don't like wrestling will after this.

And yes great mainstream movies get shunned as well. And yes my statistics are very arbitrary. And Yes Harold and Kumar would go to TNA.

But no not every film wins an award, especially not a top award, some films get shat on by everyone, yeah some good films too. Critics aren't the be all and end all but it's at least a good sign that a number of people enjoyed a film with a subject matter that is mocked if not taboo in today's society what with the Chris Benoit, steroids scandal, Katie vick... :shifty:

[BigDaddyCool]

Not they won't. Hipster will be interested in RoH, find out it is not like the movie at all, and go back to not watching it.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I wasn't interested in learning more about Nazi-based groups after watching American History X.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Just saying.

[BigDaddyCool]

That is only because you are black. But you were interested in curb stomping afterwards.

[Anybody Thrilla]

............fair play.

[Jeritron]

So let me get this straight...some of you think this movie sounds dumb? Yet, you read stories about Ariel leaving TNA and shit. And watch current wrestling programming?

Sounds very interesting to me. It's far less silly than wrestling itself (which don't get me wrong I love). But it's hard to reconcile calling this silly with actually watching wrestling. If anything, we should understand it more and be understanding of people unknowingly calling something silly that they know little about.

Sounds to be compelling, like beyond the mat, and Mick Foley/Jericho's autobiographies

[Jeritron]

But I also love movies far more than wrestling

[BigDaddyCool]

So let me get this straight...some of you think this movie sounds dumb? Yet, you read stories about Ariel leaving TNA and shit. And watch current wrestling programming?

Sounds very interesting to me. It's far less silly than wrestling itself (which don't get me wrong I love). But it's hard to reconcile calling this silly with actually watching wrestling. If anything, we should understand it more and be understanding of people unknowingly calling something silly that they know little about.

Sounds to be compelling, like beyond the mat, and Mick Foley/Jericho's autobiographies


To be fair, I've lost interest in wrestling ever since Jericho won the gold. Not because Jericho is unworthy, but the booking is so bad.

[Jeritron]

Fair enough, I've lost most interest long ago, but I still think it's hard to view this as stupid.

[BigDaddyCool]

Wrestling is stupid, but this film doesn't capture the stupidness of wrestling, therefore the movie is stupid.

[Jeritron]

You haven't seen it, you're just judging the idea. So am I, but I think the concept seems more engaging since it captures a side of wrestling that is more thought provoking, interesting and importantly, real. This has been seen in things like Beyond the Mat, or books.

Capturing the stupidness of wrestling has been done in Ready to Rumble, and No Holds Barred. Needless to say, I think the quality lies in truth based accounts, rather than in big screen attempts at kayfabe and silliness.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Oh wait, no I'm not.

I will watch this, but only so I will know how terrible a movie about wrestling can actually be. This will make Ready to Rumble look like Casablanca.

I can't believe you said that, man. This is a great film-maker and, for the most part, a great cast. It has been winning awards on the filmmaking scene. This is going to be some good drama, and the movie might not be a classic, but I think the analogy you just drew is going to make you look like such an idiot.

[Mr. Nerfect]

His rival would be just as old as him then, and would be shit in the ring, so what promoter would put it on?

So the rival still wrestling would be like Hogan or Flair. And neither of them would call up old retired wrestlers to fight. Flair would try to help newbs out, while Hogan would try to beat the new maineventers. So the story makes no sence to me.

What the fuck are you on about? Sure the wrestlers will be "past their prime," but you are talking about an industry that will still call Hulk Hogan back to wrestle, and just saw Ric Flair retire from active in-ring competition. You have an old billionaire get in the ring for hardcore matches, and Sting is getting paid more money than you deserve to see for his work in TNA.

Also, you compare the fictional characters in this to Hogan and Flair, and then expect that one would have to be an egomaniac, and the other would have to be interested in creating new stars. How fucking crippled are you in the mind? This movie is not going to fit your every fantasy about it, because most people aren't as dumb as you, and don't need their movies as dumb.

Yes, sometimes awards are handed out to films that don't deserve them. The Wrestler has been doing pretty well, however, and there are surely more "unique" choices at these festivals. That they are giving it to a movie that stars Mickey Rourke, was going to star Nicolas Cage, and is about a form of entertainment you can be sure they have each snubbed at least once in their life, you can be assured something is there. It may be overrated, and it might not be a classic, and maybe Marisa Tomei and Evan Rachel Wood just get naked enough, but saying it sounds dumb based on an incomplete blurb from a website, and making all these assumptions based off it, make you sound stupider than anyone who is going by what a bunch of critics are saying. These people have studied and live film. They know bad ones. Sometimes they are wrong; they are human, but they know bad ones.

Also, you'd be able to assume that "The Ayatollah" is a foreign heel type character. The relationship between Mickey Rourke and Ernest Miller will probably be synonymous to Hulk Hogan and The Iron Shiek, or something. Rourke will probably come back to the ring for the same reason as other guys do -- the need to get in front of a crowd again, the money, and the need to solidify one's legend. Didn't one icon of the sport recently say that they wanted to die in a wrestling ring? It'll most likely be Rourke's character tossing up his desire to wrestle (even if it means early death) with a future with a damaged woman and a daughter who might hate his guts and think wrestling is stupid. Death immortalised by sports entertainment, at a time where many believe it is real, and need the Americans to win; or life as a nobody and a traitor to the industry, to wrestling fans and to himself.

Also, if Harold and Kumar went to a wrestling promotion, it would probably be CHIKARA or PWG. Those two guys possess an ironic understanding of the racial stereotypes associated with their cultures. If they went to TNA, they would have to play a kung fu master who couldn't speak English and a telemarketer who owned a convenience store. They wouldn't be too happy about that, and would instead go to a more respectful promotion.

[Mr. Nerfect]

This being a Darren Aronofsky movie, this should hopefully follow Ram Robinson (which isn't such a ridiculous name considering the trend in professional wrestling...and we just got Dolph Ziggler) and his heart condition to the logical conclusion. Robinson finishes the match, wins the World Heavyweight Championship, makes it to the back, and has a heart attack sometime later before he can fully enjoy the meaning of his kayfabe (and real life) victory.

A funeral scene with the characters unified at Robinson's grave sight, with Ernest Miller appearing without his Ayatollah get-up, potentially talking to Robinson's daughter, giving her some money, and revealing himself to just be an African-American guy playing a hateful character who really loved and respected Robinson behind the scenes could be great. Not sure if they'll be anything like that in the movie, of course, but Evan Rachel Wood's character admitting that The Ayatollah is such a good heel, because he is so likable in real life, would be icing on the cake.

[The Mackem]

Let's face it, it will be awful.

[BigDaddyCool]

What ever Noid just said, I'm sure he missed my point.

[BigDaddyCool]

Noid, I was saying Ernest Miller's character is the Flair or Hogan. A guy still wrestling. Does Hogan ever call up Iron Sheik for one more match? When is the last time Flair called up Steamboat for another match? Has Sting ever...um who is Sting's arch-rival? Flair? Well that might draw.

The point I'm trying to make that an early 80's wrestler that is still active isn't going to call up another early 80's retired wrestler for one more match especially if the retired guy has heart problems.

I say it all sounds silly. I'll watch it because I like wrestling, but I don't think they really get it.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I can't believe you said that, man. This is a great film-maker and, for the most part, a great cast. It has been winning awards on the filmmaking scene. This is going to be some good drama, and the movie might not be a classic, but I think the analogy you just drew is going to make you look like such an idiot.

A great cast of Ernest "The Cat" Miller and The Blue Meanie? Come off it, guy. It's really not that serious either way, whether I'm right or not.

[BigDaddyCool]

This movie sounds like Noid booking, no wonder he likes it.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I'm not really looking at this in terms of it being a good movie as I am looking at it in terms of it being a good WRESTLING movie. It just sounds that the way they are handling wrestling as a profession is pretty stupid. It may have the greatest romance story ever written, but that doesn't mean it couldn't still have the dumbest wrestling story ever written in the very same script. Even if it's winning awards, chances are that those awards aren't coming from actual wrestling fans.

[BigDaddyCool]

I'm in agreement with Anybody Thrilla. What is the point of writing a great story around faulty ideas?

[What Would Kevin Do?]

I want to make a movie about a senile Ric Flair randomly calling people because he want's another match with them.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

*Ring Ring*
Terry Funk: Hello?
Recorded message: You have received a collect call from "WHOOOO! YOU AND ME BABY! STYLE AND PROFILIN ONE MORE TIME! COME ON!! I'LL KICK YOUR ASS! LET'S....." Do you accept the charges?

[thedamndest]

I think there is sound logic in hipsters following ROH after this movie. I am, of course, basing this on what Darren Aronofsky films did for heroin use, the search for patterns in the stock market, and the quest for eternal life. Those hipsters love non-conformity.

[Indifferent Clox]

That's not really a valid (although it is funny and witty) arguement.

Heroin use was negatively viewed in that movie.

There are no secret numbers in the stock market.

That movie was so out there, of course no one is gonna be inspired by it.

Pro wrestling is a thing that people can watch or not watch and it have no effect on there life all that much, I would imagine some who like the movie, might say , hmm I might give pro wrestling another chance, some might not

[What Would Kevin Do?]

You know, I'm pretty sure the involvement of ROH and CZW goes only as far as that parts were filmed at the shows because they needed a crowd. I highly doubt the name ROH will be an issue in the movie. At best, it may be on the ring, or they might get some sort of a mention, but I doubt it'll be a big deal.

[thedamndest]

I am just saying. I am not expecting this movie to cause a bunch of guys in corduroy blazers to start showing up at ROH shows. Plus to actually follow the thing takes kind of a commitment and ROH doesn't even have a tv show.

[Mr. Nerfect]

A great cast of Ernest "The Cat" Miller and The Blue Meanie? Come off it, guy. It's really not that serious either way, whether I'm right or not.

Blue Meanie will get like three lines in the movie. Miller might not even talk. His character could be the silent heel type. Fact is, you don't know anything about this movie. All we have to go on are the pedigrees of the cast, crew and the awards it has been winning. There is nothing to indicate it will be bad except a poorly written and probably surface-level synopsis.

As for it being a good WRESTLING movie. That was what I was asking, because it is impossible to tell from what we've got given. The guy has a silly name? He's old? It's set in the 80's? Nothing there tells you how it will handle the profession. If anything, it fits BDC's requirements of a wrestling movie being silly and over the top. Given the director and the cast, I doubt it's going to go that way, though. Personally, I think it will deal with wrestling as a carny industry with a weird allure and code of honour. I don't know, but I know my movies, and I believe that this will put a slanted romance on Ram Robinson's relationship with professional wrestling.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm in agreement with Anybody Thrilla. What is the point of writing a great story around faulty ideas?

A story builds from its ideas. A great story will be composed of great ideas. What the fuck do you have to go on that there are faulty ideas here? You know nothing about this project.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Noid, I was saying Ernest Miller's character is the Flair or Hogan. A guy still wrestling. Does Hogan ever call up Iron Sheik for one more match? When is the last time Flair called up Steamboat for another match? Has Sting ever...um who is Sting's arch-rival? Flair? Well that might draw.

The point I'm trying to make that an early 80's wrestler that is still active isn't going to call up another early 80's retired wrestler for one more match especially if the retired guy has heart problems.

I say it all sounds silly. I'll watch it because I like wrestling, but I don't think they really get it.

How the fuck do you know that The Ayatollah is the one who does the calling? Hogan tries to bitch out Savage all the time. Doesn't Sid Vicious want to make a comeback? There are rumours that Ricky Steamboat is looking to get back into the ring. Wasn't there some infamous Hogan vs. Piper match in WCW?

Besides, if you want instances where kayfabe rivals go at it years down the track, I think you are missing the point. If you cannot accept a hypothetical situation based closely on the realities of the wrestling business without a literal analogy to connect it to, then that is your failing, not Darren Aronofsky's. Besides, they will probably only been rivals in the sense that one was a top babyface and one was a top heel. How do you even know that Ernest Miller's character is still wrestling? How can you assume that it won't be like the much-rumoured Stone Cold vs. Hogan match, where both guys are out of the spotlight, but both step back into the ring for one big match?

How can you assume that Ernest Miller's character knows about Mickey Rourke's heart condition? Injuries in wrestling are often close-guarded, and guys work through a lot of that stuff because they don't want to be seen as bitches you need to take time off and ruin the plans of promoters. Keep in mind this is set in the 1980's, when kayfabe was runnin' wild and a hero character like Ram Robinson would probably need to appear indestructible.

As for this movie sounding like Noid booking? You are retarded. If there is one thing I avoid, it is booking Kevin Nash against Hulk Hogan in a battle of the octogenarians. I fantasy book new age, less clear-cut face/heel stuff.

[BigDaddyCool]

lol at Noid freaking out.

1) The movie starts in the 80's, he retires and comes back nowish.

2) I'm not going to bother arguing with Noid because he doesn't get it.

[Mr. Monday Morning]

You know, I'm pretty sure the involvement of ROH and CZW goes only as far as that parts were filmed at the shows because they needed a crowd. I highly doubt the name ROH will be an issue in the movie. At best, it may be on the ring, or they might get some sort of a mention, but I doubt it'll be a big deal.

This is correct

And Terry Funk as someone posted up there is quite apt as they seem to have given Rourke's character the same kind of 'really needs to retire but can't because he's hooked on being a performer too much' kind of angle. He's a nobody if he's not in the ring, but in there he's a star.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Blue Meanie will get like three lines in the movie. Miller might not even talk. His character could be the silent heel type. Fact is, you don't know anything about this movie.

And neither do you. That's why I don't understand you defending it so vehemently. Miller will probably have all kinds of lines. He's one of the main characters. Why would they cast Ernest Miller, traditional loud mouth, as a silent hill type? You have absolutely no reason to assume that other than being pissed off that I am bashing a movie that neither of us knows anything about.

[Anybody Thrilla]

We're all talking pretty much from our asses here. There's absolutely no reason to get heated about it until any of us have seen it.

Noid, if I were you, I might try and chill out a little bit, or I'm afraid you may be drastically disappointed by this film.

All I'm really trying to say is that from the description of the film, it seems like the way that the wrestling business will be portrayed may not be as accurate as a smark like myself would like it to be. Sure the story may be great, but I just don't think it will be a great WRESTLING movie, which is what I would expect from a movie called The Wrestler. I could easily see myself being disappointed with it just as much as I was with Ready to Rumble. At least that had some semi-big names in it, though.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Sorry, semi-big WRESTLING names.

[BigDaddyCool]

I agree with Trilla still. It sounds like they are vaguley basing the movie off of wrestling.

[Anybody Thrilla]

It's rare that BDC and I agree on something. This should be archived. Or closed. I can't figure which.

[BigDaddyCool]

I'm think it is because we are think logically and seeing it for what it is instead of trying to build it up on a pedestal. People (not just in this thread) like to think indy stuff has a magical ability to change the world and is untouchable because the indy visionaries have some sort of superior ethics. Be it indy-rock, indy-movies, indy-wrestling or whatever. And this is a combination of an indy-movie and indy-wrestling so it has to be good and do things no one has any real proof that it can do.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I'm inclined to agree with that as well.

[Jeritron]

I just think it could be a good movie, and is approaching the subject material from a real world angle rather than as a saturday morning cartoon.
Other than that, I'll wait to see the movie before I judge it. I'll also judge it on two different counts: a) as a movie and b) as a wrestling movie.
But the point is, I'll see it and it certainly has the potential to be good.

[BigDaddyCool]

Fuck you Jeritron, and fuck your rational, nonjudgemental opinion of this movie. I demand you blindly take a side and defend it to a fault.

[Anybody Thrilla]

One of the first things I said is that I would watch it.

[Jeritron]

Certainly. I guess we just disagree on the approach and potential of the movie.

[Anybody Thrilla]

And that's fine. Noid had to go as far as to say that my opinion was going to make me seem stupid, though. That's not exactly fair, and pretty hurtful at that. :(

[BigDaddyCool]

We have all said we are going to watch the movie.

I'm sorry but I've been dissapointed on so many movies that have turned out to only be vaguely based on things I love. Such as Transformer and knowing people don't really respect wrestling, I am just being pesimistic about this movie.

[Jeritron]

Well that's because they're making a movie. It's changing mediums of entertainment. Certain things must be changed around.
Look at Lord of the Rings, and like you said Transformers.
Transformers would suck as a movie if it remained entirely faithful to everything from the cartoon. Maybe not to you, because you love the other material, but they're making a movie here.
Same with wrestling. If you made a movie of Monday Night Raw that wasn't changed for the purposes of cinema, you'd just get a tape of Monday Night Raw, and as a movie it would suck. Even if you were a fan, why wouldn't you just watch Raw?

They're making a movie here first and foremost.

[BigDaddyCool]

If they stayed faithful to transformers in the new movie it would have ruled. Case in point, the cartoon movie from the 80s ruled.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I don't want the movie to be like going to a show. I just want the movie to treat wrestling the way that wrestling actually is. From the sounds of it, they are not. You could still feasibly have a good story and treat the wrestling industry like the actual wrestling industry.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I think I would feel better about it if they had some bigger names in the wrestling industry in it. People who wouldn't stand for a misrepresentation of the industry that they eat, sleep, and breathe. The wrestlers featured in this sound like they would just do anything to be in a movie.

Hopefully, I'm wrong. I really hope I am. But as it stands, I haven't read anything to prove me wrong.

[Jeritron]

I don't want the movie to be like going to a show. I just want the movie to treat wrestling the way that wrestling actually is. From the sounds of it, they are not. You could still feasibly have a good story and treat the wrestling industry like the actual wrestling industry.


I was adressing BDC. Even though you guys are arguing from the same side, you're both bringing up different points so I can only speak to one viewpoint at a time or else the argument will get tangled, and you'll assume responses to BDC's statements are directed to you and unfounded.

[Jeritron]

I think I would feel better about it if they had some bigger names in the wrestling industry in it. People who wouldn't stand for a misrepresentation of the industry that they eat, sleep, and breathe. The wrestlers featured in this sound like they would just do anything to be in a movie.

Hopefully, I'm wrong. I really hope I am. But as it stands, I haven't read anything to prove me wrong.

Well isn't it using all fictional characters in a setting to portray a story in the wrestling world? Bull Durham and The Natural are great baseball movies. They don't use real baseball players or even actors portraying real baseball names.
You see what I'm saying here?
I think you're expecting a different kind of movie, rather than this movie being in some way flawed.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I was adressing BDC. Even though you guys are arguing from the same side, you're both bringing up different points so I can only speak to one viewpoint at a time or else the argument will get tangled, and you'll assume responses to BDC's statements are directed to you and unfounded.

I wasn't addressing anybody. Just saying what I thought from what I read.

[Kane Knight]

So wait...I only skimmed the thread, so maybe I missed something, but it looks like Noid is frothing from the mouth about how awesome this is, and other people are saying "you're jumping to conclusions," and he's jumping all over them.

Sounds strangely familiar.

[Jeritron]

Theres a big difference between the type of movie you're suggesting, compared to the type of movie this is. They're different types of movies, rather than one of them being poorly executed.

For example:
Jerry McGuire. It uses fake athletes to tell a fictional story set in a realistic sports world
Bull Durham. Same

Almost Famous. Same, only with music.

Movies set in the filmmaking industry, like Tropic Thunder, Be Cool, Adaptation.


There are countless other examples of movies like this, that are in the setting and world, but use purely fictional characters, stories and other details to serve as a way to give an overall depiction. They're all based in truth.

Then you have movies that may use a fictional character or story, but use real names or events from it's setting:
At the moment I can't really think of any, but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

Curb Your Enthusiasm is sort of an example.

Like in Knocked Up. They have the fictional character played by Katherine Heigl work at E!, and you see Ryan Seacrest and other celbrities as themselves in a realistic environment.
Would this be any worse or flawed if it were a charicature of the setting with actors playing fake celbrities and the network being called Z!, or something like that? The audience gets the point, and for all intents and purposes, it accomplishes the same thing.
Sure one's more authentic, but it isn't neccesarrilly any more valid or convincing.

I know this a comedy, but its the same basic idea.

The same goes for books.

[BigDaddyCool]

So wait...I only skimmed the thread, so maybe I missed something, but it looks like Noid is frothing from the mouth about how awesome this is, and other people are saying "you're jumping to conclusions," and he's jumping all over them.

Sounds strangely familiar.

Yeah, also Clox is trying to sound like he is awesome for enjoying indy movies, me and Anybody Thrilla are finding ourselves in agreement, while Jeritron is arguing reasonably that we should give this movie a try before we bury it.

[Jeritron]

I think the accuracy of the depiction, or even just the value of it, doesn't depend on it's authenticity.

[Kane Knight]

Yeah, also Clox is trying to sound like he is awesome for enjoying indy movies, me and Anybody Thrilla are finding ourselves in agreement, while Jeritron is arguing reasonably that we should give this movie a try before we bury it.

But Clox loves everything, undercutting him. Granted, it hasn't set Destor back to say he loves all wrestling, but I love Clox's mentality that it means something when a guy who loves everything says something's good.

Anyway, I'll probably watch it, but I have realistic expectations.

[Jeritron]

http://ebimg.sv.publicus.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=EB&Date=20080910&Category=FILMFESTIVALS03&ArtNo=809109997&Ref=AR&Maxw=438

[BigDaddyCool]

From my understanding, necrobutcher sucks a fat dick.

[Jeritron]

lol

[Anybody Thrilla]

Theres a big difference between the type of movie you're suggesting, compared to the type of movie this is. They're different types of movies, rather than one of them being poorly executed.

For example:
Jerry McGuire. It uses fake athletes to tell a fictional story set in a realistic sports world
Bull Durham. Same

Almost Famous. Same, only with music.

Movies set in the filmmaking industry, like Tropic Thunder, Be Cool, Adaptation.


There are countless other examples of movies like this, that are in the setting and world, but use purely fictional characters, stories and other details to serve as a way to give an overall depiction. They're all based in truth.

Then you have movies that may use a fictional character or story, but use real names or events from it's setting:
At the moment I can't really think of any, but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.

Curb Your Enthusiasm is sort of an example.

Like in Knocked Up. They have the fictional character played by Katherine Heigl work at E!, and you see Ryan Seacrest and other celbrities as themselves in a realistic environment.
Would this be any worse or flawed if it were a charicature of the setting with actors playing fake celbrities and the network being called Z!, or something like that? The audience gets the point, and for all intents and purposes, it accomplishes the same thing.
Sure one's more authentic, but it isn't neccesarrilly any more valid or convincing.

I know this a comedy, but its the same basic idea.

The same goes for books.

You're not wrong, but I think that the wrestling industry is a totally different beast to accurately capture in a realistic light. If they even try to treat wrestling as a 'real' thing, it'll be terrible. I haven't seen any indication that this is not the case.

[BigDaddyCool]

I'm going to wait to see the movie before I bitch any more about them not potraying wrestling accrurately enough. But from the synopsis, it doesn't sound like they are, I could be mistaken.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Exactly.

[Anybody Thrilla]

But I might bitch some more just because it's fun.

[BigDaddyCool]

I'll make fun of Noid when he come back.

[Jeritron]

You're not wrong, but I think that the wrestling industry is a totally different beast to accurately capture in a realistic light. If they even try to treat wrestling as a 'real' thing, it'll be terrible. I haven't seen any indication that this is not the case.



Well that's not the case. I read Roger Ebert's review.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Post it.

[mitch_h]

I saw it at TIFF, it was really good, best movie i've seen all year in fact. It's an accurate depiction of independant wrestling. In fact the opening scenes show wrestlers planning their matches, using the jargon (heat, face, spot etc). That being said it's more of a character study than a commentary of the wrestling industry and they made an excellent choice going with Rourke... especially seeing as he's been long consdered washed up. He's nostalgic, childish, irresponsible yet sympathetic and charming. The subdued documentary style is appropriate for the film, however the realism is balanced by an excellent script that makes the whole experience both galvanizing, sad, and at times very funny.

[Jeritron]

Here's the Roger Ebert review:

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080910/FILMFESTIVALS03/809109997/-1/FILMFESTIVALS

I thought it was more confirming than that scripted bit, but I must have gotten it confused with these which I read on the same day:

http://www.cinematical.com/2008/09/08/tiff-review-the-wrestler/

That one makes reference to the promoter booking the match, as well as a scene that highlights the wrestlers calling out the moves to eachother.


Perhaps the most interesting thing will be the story of the impact on the family, the inability to let go of the show and the character in real life, and the daily activities of going to the gym and tanning booth and all that stuff.
Looking more at these reviews, it seems more authentic than I thought it would be.

Also, every one of them is positive.

[Jeritron]

Yea I'm trying to read through these and find the stuff I read previously without spoiling myself too much

Fuck you ABT. I jsut read a lot I didn't want to

[mitch_h]

Also the character of Randy has a sort of social relevence which I found pretty interesting.

[Jeritron]

I haven't heard of one person seeing it, wrestling fan or not, not thinking it was excellent. One of those reviewers I read was talking about the King of Kings, and Jake the Snake and 80s Hulk Hogan Iron Sheik nostalgia and such.

I'll give my rating when I see it, but I can't wait. Sounds like an accurate character study of the people in wrestling with problems after the big time (Jake the Snake and everyone else in Beyond the Mat) and the industry itself seems like an authentic backdrop.

[Jeritron]

But it's going to make Ready To Rumble look like Casablance because the two sentence plot synopsis doesn't indicate that it treats wrestling as fake. :p

[Anybody Thrilla]

Thank you, mitch_H. I have been humbled like I have just faced The Iron Sheik.

[Anybody Thrilla]

How good is The Blue Meanie in it?

[Anybody Thrilla]

Or Ernest Miller even.

[Jeritron]

That pic of Ernest Miller looks exactly like the Iron Sheik.

[mitch_h]

I didn't even notice the Blue Meanie, but hasn't he lost like 600 pounds? Ernest is solid, although he has a rather small part... he plays a wrestler with an Iron Sheik like character actually. Minor spoiler I guess... he's kinda the guy that Rourke feuded with when they were in their prime and this feud launched their careers. Anywho, now he's a used car salesman but they are supposed to wrestle eachother again as like a 20th anniversary match.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Ernest being that guy was sorta spoiled earlier in this very thread, to be fair.

[Indifferent Clox]

where did you see it mitch h?