Wha? Gimmicks that wouldnt work today

[Rollermacka]

I was watching some old WWE Royal Rumble DVDs and some of these ideas that the WWE came up with, how did it work? What gimmicks do you think would not work if done today? My biggest kinda Wha? movement is when I've been watching the Bushwackers. Lets see, two kinda wildmen from New Zealand, one of them had about 4 teeth in his mouth, he would bite men on the butt, lick his cousin, then people would let them lick there kids? :wtf: Yet they were a massively popular team, I never got it.

[BigDaddyCool]

I don't believe in gimmicks that don't work...unless it is an obscure refference that people simply don't get anymore. But pretty much any gimmick can work. Who would have thought an undead zombie would be a 6 time world champion? Some crazy gimmicks work while blue chipper gimmicks fizzle. It is all about finding the right guy for the gimmick, or the right gimmick for the guy.

[Halbowsky]

I still can't believe a gimmick like The Undertaker (or The Boogeyman, even though he's MIA) still works today, or how gimmicks like Doink The Clown and Kamala still get reactions today. But it means they do their characters good and more props to them.

But yeah, try getting The Red Rooster over today

[NeanderCarl]

It's obvious why The Red Rooster never got over as a face. He was too cocky.

:shifty:

[BigDaddyCool]

Was Red Rooster ever over?

[Mr. Nerfect]

I can't believe The Boogeyman worked when it did, to be honest. The same thing goes with Hornswoggle.

[parkmania]

At least we're not still being subjected to gimmicks the likes of Duke "The Dumpster" Drose or T.L. Hopper. Yeah, a trash man and a plumber just happen to know how to wrestle, AND have the connections to get into the WWF(E). That's believable. :shifty:

[NeanderCarl]

Sometimes the 'occupational' gimmicks work, if its a background character thing (Big Bossman, tough prison guard turned wrestler) or an ongoing element (JBL, Wall Street bigwig)... when it's something as mundane and unremarkable as a wrestling plumber, it makes zero sense, and less sense still that said wrestler would be so devoted to his shitty part time job that he would even wear the uniform whilst wrestling on national TV.

That would be like me getting a job working for WWE back when I was a Domino's store manager, and wearing a Domino's uniform in the ring. Maybe calling myself "The Pizza Man" or some shit. Surely I'd be getting a job as a wrestler to a) better myself and b) get away from my daily grind as a "pizza man", so why base my entire presentation of myself in a wrestling ring on the very thing I am trying to escape? Even from a kayfabe point of view, it makes zero sense... from a critical point of view, even less so.

[Juan]

I still can't believe a gimmick like The Undertaker (or The Boogeyman, even though he's MIA) still works today, or how gimmicks like Doink The Clown and Kamala still get reactions today. But it means they do their characters good and more props to them.

But yeah, try getting The Red Rooster over today

Comparing Doink the Clown to Kamala is like comparing ice cream to horse manure.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

I don't believe in gimmicks that don't work...unless it is an obscure refference that people simply don't get anymore. But pretty much any gimmick can work. Who would have thought an undead zombie would be a 6 time world champion? Some crazy gimmicks work while blue chipper gimmicks fizzle. It is all about finding the right guy for the gimmick, or the right gimmick for the guy.

Do you think you could make ""Karl Kreamer Karlson" work with a KKK gimmick?

[Rob]

Undertaker would never have gotten over if the gimmick started today. They would have given him a month tops before he was doing jobs on ECW to Tommy Dreamer.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Part of the reason Taker wouldn't have gotten over (beside the obvious cheese), would be the WWE making him far too vulnerable, so the zombie illusion wouldn't even get started. It's pretty much how they fucked up Mordecai.

Just a fun little bit of trivia for you: Bam Neely is meant to be a former border patrol agent. Not sure if that is just in kayfabe, but it strikes me as such.

[Mr. Nerfect]

That being said, I think the attitude of the gimmick is perhaps more important than how bad the gimmick actually is itself. Professional wrestling has changed, true, but there is still room for the occasional ridiculous gimmick, or two. I mean, Santino Marella is doing fine. There is plenty of hilarious stuff in CHIKARA. Delirious was practically a quacking man dressed as a swamp creature. Pirate Paul was even working when it was around.

Wrestling is more exposed now than it's ever been, so irony makes these things go down a lot easier. If someone flicked over to see a man dressed as a pirate, then the line between entertaining and insulting can be whether he is meant to be a pirate, or whether he is pretending to be pirate. Winking at the audience, especially when the whole "fake" stigma of wrestling is poison against it, can make even the most ridiculous things go down.

The Undertaker as he exists now would definitely flop without the nostalgia and legend of the character behind him, simply because the WWE treats it too seriously. Even with Kane, they seem to be making jokes about his past (the interaction with Shane and the throwback to Paul Bearer being his father). I think they either need to pierce more nuanced depths with the Taker character, to scrape away some of the cheese, and justify the seriousness -- or they need to liven it up a bit, and stop taking the zombie thing so seriously. I'd honestly love to see The Miz and John Morrison get a chance to rip into Taker for wearing a leotard and mascara.

[Mr. Nerfect]

One gimmick that I think deserved to be played seriously though: Irwin R. Schyster. A man so evil, that he reminded you of your taxes while wrestling. Now there is a brilliant heel gimmick.

[Vastardikai]

IRS shouldn't have worked at all. He was a fucking Wrestling Tax Accountant. Normally when you think of Tax Accountants, they're fat fucks who sit behind a desk and push a pencil.

It worked for one reason and one reason only: Mike Rotunda. He was so condescending in his mic work, it made you have to hate him and want to see him get his comeuppance. The bad news? He was so good in the ring that this didn't happen very often. On top of that, he had a prop that made it very easy for the face to get a reaction: the tie. Watch the '92 Rumble and listen to the reactions when Hacksaw Jim Duggan and later "Rowdy" Roddy Piper grab him by the tie.

Anybody else in that role, it is dead in the water. Mike Rotunda MADE IRS.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I've got no doubt about Mike Rotunda making IRS. Not a single doubt at all. That's one of the best qualities a heel character can have, though: The nightmarish ability to combine your fears. He's a tax accountant...that can kick your ass. How much worse can it get? A tax accountant that kicks your ass and sleeps with your wife? I'd buy it.

[Bad Company]

I was watching some old WWE Royal Rumble DVDs and some of these ideas that the WWE came up with, how did it work? What gimmicks do you think would not work if done today? My biggest kinda Wha? movement is when I've been watching the Bushwackers. Lets see, two kinda wildmen from New Zealand, one of them had about 4 teeth in his mouth, he would bite men on the butt, lick his cousin, then people would let them lick there kids? :wtf: Yet they were a massively popular team, I never got it.
I dunno, I think the bushwhackers could get over even today, given that noone in the US knows where New Zealand is :p

[Mr. Nerfect]

It's actually a literal representation of New Zealand, too. :shifty:

[BigDaddyCool]

Well if they pull the carpet out from under the guy, of course the gimmick is going to fail. But any gimmick given a liget push has a chance of succeeding. Hell Booker T's King Booker crap was golden, and that was a retarded gimmick.

[XL]

How so BDC?

To me 'King Booker' was just Booker T - black man from the ghetto - pretending to be royalty by playing up his regal accent.

[Blue Demon]

I still can't believe a gimmick like The Undertaker (or The Boogeyman, even though he's MIA) still works today, or how gimmicks like Doink The Clown and Kamala still get reactions today. But it means they do their characters good and more props to them.

But yeah, try getting The Red Rooster over today

I don't think the Rooster worked even then...

[parkmania]

The Red Rooster gimmick wasn't SUPPOSED to work - it was a "punishment" that was "forced upon" Terry Taylor by Bobby Heenan, IIRC.

[Rollermacka]

The Red Rooster gimmick wasn't SUPPOSED to work - it was a "punishment" that was "forced upon" Terry Taylor by Bobby Heenan, IIRC.

Wha?

[Mr. Nerfect]

King Booker was really the only time I cared about Booker T as a heel in the WWE. The delusions of grandeur, and the whole fake accent thing were just right, in my opinion. I think a lot of that just came from Booker T as a performer, and him really knowing what would make the gimmick work.

Just to point it out, there was irony all over that gimmick. Booker T was never meant to be a literal king, and a lot of his heat probably came from the fact most remembered him as Booker T, and thought the "Madonna accent" was completely stupid.

[Theo Dious]

I dunno, I think the bushwhackers could get over even today, given that noone in the US knows where New Zealand is :p

Yeah they do, but only because of Lord of the Rings.

[My Final Heaven]

The thing with the Bushwhackers is, They weren't always of the kid-licking, goose-stepping ilk. Back in the late '80's / early '90's, Vince had a major hard-on for being "for the kids". He wanted the British Bulldogs to come to the ring barking & wearing dog collors, for fuck's sake. Dynamite Kid mentioned that conversation in his book.

Before The Bushwhackers got to the WWF, they were The Sheepherders, AWESOME heel tagteam. A couple of insane, drunken hooligans who liked to hide spikes & forks in their tights before coming to the ring. They didn't leave you bloody because they liked to win wrestling matches, they did it because it was fun. Of coarse , Vince couldn't have that on his Saturday morning kiddie show, and I can't say I blame him.

Bonus points for anybody that remembers "The Hongies" :shifty:

[parkmania]

Weren't the Hongies the "backup singers" for the Honky Tonk Man?

[My Final Heaven]

The Honkettes, you mean. The Hongies were what Bushwhackers called their fans, kinda like The Rock and the "people". In the last month or 2 that they were with the company, they kinda did this weird morph where they changed their ring attire, came out to the ring with a guy in a Kangaroo suit, and got a new entrance theme where they rapped about their "Hongies". It was quite, quite surreal.

[NeanderCarl]

The guy in the kangaroo suit was Steve Lombardi, trivia buffs. I thought Hongi was the name of their restaurant, that they were advertising all over their ring attire. It's a Maori (New Zealand) greeting. And they never "rapped", although :rofl: at the thought.

[NeanderCarl]

Wha?

He's right, pretty much. The storyline idea was that Heenan felt he could take any man off the street, any "red rooster" rookie, and make him into a star. So, he got newcomer Terry Taylor and forced him into the demeaning role of being Heenan's "red rooster" with the long term plan for Taylor to turn face and rebel against Heenan.

However, inexplicably, when the face turn came Taylor embraced the "rooster" element of his name literally and became a walking, talking chicken.

It was most fowl.

Tsk.

[DarKCentaur]

Repo Man would be a 5-time World Champ if he was around today.

[Fox]

Just to point it out, there was irony all over that gimmick. Booker T was never meant to be a literal king, and a lot of his heat probably came from the fact most remembered him as Booker T, and thought the "Madonna accent" was completely stupid.

I don't know what you mean by "never meant to be a literal king," but he did win King of the Ring in 2006. If you meant a king like in a castle with a moat and shit then, well, no shit, that's obvious.

I agree that any gimmick can work if you have the right person to play it and learn the subtleties to playing between the lines of too much and too little with the character. Umaga is a perfect example. A dude from a Samoan jungle tribe wrestling and touring with the WWE. It sounds stupid on paper but the guy makes it work.

[mrslackalack]

GIVE MANTAUR THE BELT. Now that was a classic TPWW thread title lol

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't know what you mean by "never meant to be a literal king," but he did win King of the Ring in 2006. If you meant a king like in a castle with a moat and shit then, well, no shit, that's obvious.

I agree that any gimmick can work if you have the right person to play it and learn the subtleties to playing between the lines of too much and too little with the character. Umaga is a perfect example. A dude from a Samoan jungle tribe wrestling and touring with the WWE. It sounds stupid on paper but the guy makes it work.

I didn't say it wasn't obvious about Booker not being a real king, but tell me, back in the The Bushwhackers' days, would you really put it past the WWE to have a guy presented as if he were a real king? That sort of gimmick couldn't work today, but a guy pretending to be a king has proven to be somewhat succesful.

One thing that I've really liked about Umaga, is how over time he seems less of a "savage" in terms of intellect. He's very calculating, knows the rules, and the commentators have stressed that he is no idiot. It didn't start off that way, and the character almost seemed dead in the water from the start, to be honest. Umaga almost seems like a Maori giving a haka.

[My Final Heaven]

Steve Lobardi, your go-to guy when you need a pugilistic Brooklyn street bum, Kangaroo, or Evil Baseball Player with a face that looks like a Baseball.

And I can explicitly remember Butch sqealing during a promo, "YEEEEHHH, WE'RE GONNA GO OUT THERE AND WIN THIS FOR ALL OUR LITTLE HONGIS WATCHIN' AT HOME!!! YAAAAAAAAYYYY!"

[Afterlife]

Any gimmick can work if applied to the right performer.

[Fox]

Correct me if I'm wrong but they've never done a cross-racial gimmick before, like a white guy in black face or a black guy in white face. I wonder who would be able to pull that off... maybe DDP.

[Kane Knight]

I don't believe in gimmicks that don't work...unless it is an obscure refference that people simply don't get anymore. But pretty much any gimmick can work. Who would have thought an undead zombie would be a 6 time world champion? Some crazy gimmicks work while blue chipper gimmicks fizzle. It is all about finding the right guy for the gimmick, or the right gimmick for the guy.
But really, if you brought in Taker today, he wouldn't do the same. He's successful now because he was successful then.

[parkmania]

One thing that I've really liked about Umaga, is how over time he seems less of a "savage" in terms of intellect. He's very calculating, knows the rules, and the commentators have stressed that he is no idiot. It didn't start off that way, and the character almost seemed dead in the water from the start, to be honest. Umaga almost seems like a Maori giving a haka.

I think the real change came about when Armando Alejandrrrrro Estrada stopped being a manager for him. Someone backstage actually realized that they couldn't keep him "savage" without someone there to call him off.

[Linkbowler]

Correct me if I'm wrong but they've never done a cross-racial gimmick before, like a white guy in black face or a black guy in white face. I wonder who would be able to pull that off... maybe DDP.

Kerwin White would like to have a word with you.

[NeanderCarl]

Excuse me!

http://slam.canoe.ca/WrestlingImagesP/piper_wm6.jpg

http://www.sportsfanmagazine.com/sfm/graphics/stories/PapaShango.jpg

[Vastardikai]

^

Must spread rep...

[Afterlife]

Sometimes the 'occupational' gimmicks work, if its a background character thing (Big Bossman, tough prison guard turned wrestler) or an ongoing element (JBL, Wall Street bigwig)... when it's something as mundane and unremarkable as a wrestling plumber, it makes zero sense, and less sense still that said wrestler would be so devoted to his shitty part time job that he would even wear the uniform whilst wrestling on national TV.

That would be like me getting a job working for WWE back when I was a Domino's store manager, and wearing a Domino's uniform in the ring. Maybe calling myself "The Pizza Man" or some shit. Surely I'd be getting a job as a wrestler to a) better myself and b) get away from my daily grind as a "pizza man", so why base my entire presentation of myself in a wrestling ring on the very thing I am trying to escape? Even from a kayfabe point of view, it makes zero sense... from a critical point of view, even less so.

I've often thought that if the gimmick was actually a case of Vince telling Drose or Hopper "You can only wrestle if you also keep the place running," that it would have been fine. Also would have made it easier to evolve the characters.

Also, I'd like a "Pizza Boy" wrestler. He could deliver an ass whipping in under thirty minutes -- or it's free. Also, he could have a story with virtually any diva, any time, when she invites him in for some "extra toppings". Not to mention, if he's a face (which he'd have to be) he could simply irritate all the heels instead of having serious grudges.

And, come to think of it, he used to be a delivery boy, but, of course, gave it up to wrestle fuill time. However, his love of fine pizza never went away, so he's always seen getting take out/order in from local pizzerias during his backstage segments. It's not an overly difficult thing to place, and it'd be a fine way to start a guy's character. Just don't try to smother him with a gimmick that won't be executed well.

[NeanderCarl]

A pizza delivery guy character may be fine for a bit of comical filler in the undercard, but we all know it would never ever be taken seriously as a character that could make money in the business, and although it seems the WWE aren't really bothered, the way I see it ANY character whose design from the outset determines that he will probably never main event a show in his career should not be on TV.

Sure, there has to be a hierarchy and guys need to get beat for other guys to get wins, jobbers are required as much as main eventers... you never see a one-match card in wrestling. Somebody's got to be the opening match guy, and one unlucky soul has to be the man staring at the lights in said opening match... but why bother creating a character to fulfill that role? Surely if the card was full of guys who could potentially draw, who could potentially have a serious run, they will each eventually settle into whatever role befits their skill level, creative presentation and execution, drawing power and popularity anyway, be it main eventer or worthless jobber... rather than design people to specifically fail from day one.

The Pizza Man would never headline WrestleMania. Then again, I seem to recall a certain Mark Callaway set to debut at Survivor Series 1990 under the name The Eggman too, so things can change. So... does anyone else see The Ringmaster getting into the 2009 Hall of Fame??

[Afterlife]

A pizza delivery guy character may be fine for a bit of comical filler in the undercard, but we all know it would never ever be taken seriously as a character that could make money in the business, and although it seems the WWE aren't really bothered, the way I see it ANY character whose design from the outset determines that he will probably never main event a show in his career should not be on TV.

Sure, there has to be a hierarchy and guys need to get beat for other guys to get wins, jobbers are required as much as main eventers... you never see a one-match card in wrestling. Somebody's got to be the opening match guy, and one unlucky soul has to be the man staring at the lights in said opening match... but why bother creating a character to fulfill that role? Surely if the card was full of guys who could potentially draw, who could potentially have a serious run, they will each eventually settle into whatever role befits their skill level, creative presentation and execution, drawing power and popularity anyway, be it main eventer or worthless jobber... rather than design people to specifically fail from day one.

The Pizza Man would never headline WrestleMania. Then again, I seem to recall a certain Mark Callaway set to debut at Survivor Series 1990 under the name The Eggman too, so things can change. So... does anyone else see The Ringmaster getting into the 2009 Hall of Fame??

I also said it'd be a good way to START a new guy. You give him a comical gimmick revolving around how he used to be a pizza boy. Not only could it be a little funny, but it's something people could relate to. But, you also do it like I said, where he's not literally working for a pizza company while being a wrestler. It's a backstory gimmick overall, and wouldn't necessarily effect his attire or his speech patterns. Although, I'd like for him to use The Pizza Cutter. ;)

Point being, it's not a bad idea if you aren't set up for failure, and any gimmick can be set up for evolution.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Bad Ass/Big Evil UT (i.e., the biker version of Taker) would never work today, and it should have never been done in the first place.

[NeanderCarl]

Bad Ass/Big Evil UT (i.e., the biker version of Taker) would never work today

Chuck Palumbo will be very angry with you when he reads this (which will probably be when he gets home from collecting his pink slip.)

[Evolution]

A white rapper who doesn't rap. As a face. :shifty: