MLB 2008-2009 Offseason Thread

[Supreme Olajuwon]

To be fair, they signed Meche when the market required teams to overbid for anything decent. The 2006 offseason was loaded with ridiculous contracts. Now money is a lot harder to come by, especially for a team like KC. Plus, homegrown talent is always cheaper to resign.

[Hanso Amore]

Exactly Supreme...in a market filled with overbidding, a small market team should not have been spending at all.

The difference between them and Tampa is Tampa doesnt spend in Bull markets, and they keep their talent.

[RatedGSuperstar]

The crazy thing is, for as dumb as that Meche deal looked at the time, it's somewhat paid off. He's pitched better in KC than he ever did in Seattle, and it sure as hell is looking like a better signing than my Brewers signing Jeff Suppan after a fluky postseason where he was given the "ZOMG~! CLUTCH!" tag by the media.

I think it's a little early to judge the Royals based on the way the Rays are operating. Tampa's really transformed since Friedman came into the GM role...before that they were run just as poorly as the Royals. The Rays have also gotten lucky with most of their big name prospects panning out...guys like Alex Gordon and Billy Butler haven't lived up to the hype quite yet. I can't really think of anyone the Royals haven't kept that was good, aside from maybe Beltran when he was still there. That was a lost cause, though...everyone knew that he was going to get $100 million once he hit the market and the Royals had no chance of keeping him, so they had to deal him to Houston.

Jose Guillen was a pretty horrible signing, though. I'll give you that. ;)

[Adder]

Royals give Zach Greinke 4 years, $38 million
Smart on the Royals.
He's a ton of potential that is starting to pay off.

[Adder]

The crazy thing is, for as dumb as that Meche deal looked at the time, it's somewhat paid off. He's pitched better in KC than he ever did in Seattle, and it sure as hell is looking like a better signing than my Brewers signing Jeff Suppan after a fluky postseason where he was given the "ZOMG~! CLUTCH!" tag by the media.

I think it's a little early to judge the Royals based on the way the Rays are operating. Tampa's really transformed since Friedman came into the GM role...before that they were run just as poorly as the Royals. The Rays have also gotten lucky with most of their big name prospects panning out...guys like Alex Gordon and Billy Butler haven't lived up to the hype quite yet. I can't really think of anyone the Royals haven't kept that was good, aside from maybe Beltran when he was still there. That was a lost cause, though...everyone knew that he was going to get $100 million once he hit the market and the Royals had no chance of keeping him, so they had to deal him to Houston.

Jose Guillen was a pretty horrible signing, though. I'll give you that. ;)

Solid post, right thurr

[Dragon]

Its still kind of funny that the Royals gave Farnsworth 9.5M for the next two years this offseason. Don't really get it.

[Innovator]

9.5 for the hope of mediocrity

[YOUR Hero]

Gotta be his 100 MPH fastball.
I like the Royals ways the last few years. They've been adding pitching, maybe not the top free agent, but good solid pichers. Meche sounded overpaid a couple years ago, but he looks right on as it stands with salaries anymore.

[ClockShot]

Eric Hinske to the Pirates by day's end.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Jon Garland to the Diamondbacks for 1 year and between $6-8 million. Solid pickup, gonna put even more pressure on pitchers who haven't signed yet.

Cubs might be on the verge of acquiring Aaron Heilman for Ronny Cedeno and a minor league pitcher. Wouldn't shock me if Heilman is traded yet again later on to the Padres.

The market is crashing around anybody who hasn't signed yet not named Manny Ramirez. Abreu and Dunn are both likely to have to take 1-year deals...and one agent said he would be shocked if Dunn got anything more than $5 million. The Mets lineup is already really left-handed as is, but IMO, $5 million for 40 HR and 100 RBI is a steal, regardless of his strikeouts and defense.</font>

[DaveWadding]

<font color=goldenrod>Jon Garland to the Diamondbacks for 1 year and between $6-8 million. Solid pickup, gonna put even more pressure on pitchers who haven't signed yet.

</font>

Randy Johnson was about the same price, is going to win 300 this year, which would have basically guaranteed the D'Backs hat in Cooperstown, and everyone here fucking loves him...but they let him go for Jon Garland??

[Splaya]

Yeah that deal makes no sense. I could understand if they had wanted to sign Garland to a 3-4 year deal. But a one year deal when you could pay Randy Johnson the same amount makes little to no sense

[Hanso Amore]

Dunn should try for a NL team, I just dont see him putting up the same numbers in the AL.

He should just sign with the Nats and get it over with. I dont see many other options for him.

Maybe LA if they dont land Manny.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Dunn should try for a NL team, I just dont see him putting up the same numbers in the AL.



How do you figure

[Heros Welcome]

My guess would be that the guy has crushed NL pitching and has managed to crank 40 homers a season for the last 4 I believe. So why leave?

[Hanso Amore]

Because the pitching the AL is much better.

[Hanso Amore]

Dunn might go AL and drop some HRs, and in Turn, his RBIs. He will also walk less. And that negates his strengths.

In the AL, Dunn could be a slightly better Jack Cust :(

[Supreme Olajuwon]

AL pitching isn't that much better.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Yeah plus AL pitchers would be unfamiliar with him.</font>

[YOUR Hero]

Jays should get Dunn, get Abreu, get O-Dog.

[Hanso Amore]

I dunno, Look at recent sluggers changing leagues. They drop off for a year at least, just because of the change in pitchers. Add in that I truly believe the AL has MUCH better picthing. Not as much as 2 years ago, but the NL is much weaker overall. The NL is where it is at right now if you want to put up inflated numbers.

[Hanso Amore]

Jays should get Dunn, get Abreu, get O-Dog.

Dunn at DH, Abreu in right, move Rios to left? Would be nice.

O-Dog? Hudson?

[RatedGSuperstar]

I don't know if I'd say the NL is much weaker than the AL right now. The Rays would've laid the smackdown on the Phillies if that was the case. Pitching numbers do get a little inflated in the NL due to the pitcher actually having to hit, but I'd say the pitching talent is relatively equal between the AL and NL. The AL might have the more established guys like Halladay and Sabathia (just to throw out a couple random names), but the NL has a ton of young guys like Cole Hamels and Tim Lincecum that are every bit as good.

I'm having a hard time thinking of big bats switching leagues recently, though...it seems to me like guys generally stay in the league they're most comfortable in. Manny put up huge numbers after switching to the NL last year, but IMO that had more to do with the best right-handed hitter in the game being pissed off for a few months and having something to prove. Teixeira hit pretty well after being traded to the Angels, but he was only in the NL for like a season and a half. Jason Bay hit pretty well switching from Pittsburgh to Boston.

Dunn's power numbers are always going to be there. I remember him always getting a ton of crap for playing in the Great American Bandbox with the Reds, but he doesn't hit many wall-scrapers. When he actually makes contact, chances are it's going pretty far. That kind of thing translates everywhere pretty evenly, unless he were to go to a fairly extreme pitchers park like San Diego, San Francisco, etc. Toronto would be a nice fit, but I don't see him going there after his little feud with J.P. Ricciardi.

[Adder]

The Dunn-Richardi thing would be solved in no time by a 3 year deal.

[Hanso Amore]

You cant base the NL vs AL on the World Series.

From top to bottom the AL is way better.

Outside of the Phillies, and maybe the Cubs, who could have won the WS last year? The NL has 1 or 2 top notch team, the AL have more than that in the East alone.

Look at the Interleague play from last year...and the few before it....
Year AL NL
2004 126 125
2005 136 116
2006 154 98
2007 137 115
2008 149 103

The AL tears through the NL.

Manny put up sick numbers because the pitching is so much weaker in the NL. Take dunn into the AL and he will be an inverse of Manny.

[Triple Naitch]

Fuck, Varitek needs to swallow his pride and take the Red Sox offer

[MVP]

Varitek is thinking of retiring now.

I've been saying this whole offseason that the Sox ought to trade for Saltalamachia (sp), which has been discussed, but hasn't gone anywhere. At first I was against trading Buchholz for Salty straight up, but now I think Buchholz is likely to be held down in Pawtucket for the season. At least in Texas he'd probably make the starting rotation and play for his home state. The Red Sox could platoon Salty and Bard at catcher against lefties and righties.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>LOL holy shit. Watching the Mets Hot Stove, a show that SNY does every Thursday...and there is a mob of people outside the SNY studios chanting for Manny and they have loads of signs, mini Dominican flags, Manny dreadlocks, and jerseys.

http://www.metsblog.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/photo.jpg

The fans want Manny, the team leaders have all said they want Manny, Jerry Manuel has said he wants Manny, they are moving into a new stadium with higher ticket prices and assloads of income......but it's not gonna happen. :(

They have said their priority is getting a starting pitcher...and getting a starter AND Manny will put them over the luxury tax threshold, which they've said time and time again that they aren't willing to do.</font>

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I dunno, Look at recent sluggers changing leagues. They drop off for a year at least, just because of the change in pitchers. Add in that I truly believe the AL has MUCH better picthing. Not as much as 2 years ago, but the NL is much weaker overall. The NL is where it is at right now if you want to put up inflated numbers.

Ok let's look at some player changes from the NL to the AL last year:

Miguel Cabrera: .292 37 HR 127 RBI
Josh Hamilton: .304 32 HR 130 RBI
Carlos Quentin: .288 36 HR 100 RBI


Cabrera and Quentin finished 1,2 in the AL in home runs
Hamilton and Cabrera finished 1st and 3rd in the AL in RBIs


struggling

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Manny put up sick numbers because the pitching is so much weaker in the NL. Take dunn into the AL and he will be an inverse of Manny.

If that's true, then how do explain what happened when Mark Teixeira switched to the AL midseason?

[Hanso Amore]

If that's true, then how do explain what happened when Mark Teixeira switched to the AL midseason?

You have found a flaw in my logic.

Damn you.

In regards to Teix, he was an AL player to begin with and spent such a short time in the NL that it didnt make a difference.

Good point though.

[Adder]

The Bonds saga continues.


BRISTOL, Conn. (AP)—Former major league catcher Bobby Estalella has been subpoenaed by federal prosecutors to testify at Barry Bonds’ trial, ESPN.com reported Thursday.

Estalella, who was on the San Francisco Giants with Bonds in 2000 and 2001, is expected to testify to firsthand knowledge that Bonds used steroids, the Web site said, citing an unidentified source with knowledge of the evidence. The Web site attributed knowledge of the subpoenas to two unidentified sources.

Estalella testified before a federal grand jury in November 2003. He admitted to the grand jury that he used performance-enhancing drugs, the San Francisco Chronicle reported in December 2004.

The book “Game of Shadows,” by two Chronicle reporters, says Estalella received a drug schedule from Greg Anderson, Bonds’ trainer, advising him to use human growth hormone, the steroids “the cream” and “the clear,” and the female fertility drug Clomid.

Prosecutors also plan to call Jason Giambi and his brother, Jeremy, as witnesses at Bonds’ trial so they can testify that Anderson gave them performance-enhancing drugs, The New York Times reported on its Web site Thursday night.

The newspaper said prosecutors want to use testimony from the Giambis, teammates in Oakland from 2000-01, to show that Anderson developed doping calendars for them. Then the prosecutors could argue that Anderson made similar calendars for Bonds, the Times said, citing an unidentified person briefed on the government’s evidence. The newspaper said the person spoke on condition of anonymity because he didn’t want to jeopardize his access to sensitive information.

After seven years with the New York Yankees, Jason Giambi re-signed with the Oakland Athletics this offseason. Jeremy Giambi has been out of the majors since 2003.

The Mitchell Report on drugs in baseball, released in December 2007, says that when the Los Angeles Dodgers considered signing Estalella as a free agent after the 2003 season, one team official noted in an internal conversation that Estalella was a “poster boy for the chemicals.”

Bonds pleaded not guilty to charges of lying and obstruction of justice in connection with his grand jury testimony in December 2003. Bonds, who in his testimony denied using performance-enhancing drugs, is scheduled for trial starting March 2 in U.S. District Court in San Francisco.

Twenty federal agents raided the home of Anderson’s mother-in-law on Wednesday.

Madeleine Gestas and her daughter Nicole Anderson, the trainer’s wife, are the target of a tax investigation that Anderson’s lawyer said is aimed at pressuring the trainer to testify at Bonds’ trial.

Anderson’s lawyer, Mark Geragos, believes the raid was in response to his refusal to tell prosecutors whether Anderson would testify. Anderson served more than a year in prison for refusing to testify to the grand jury.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AtDsqq4jG7OgIN9yFmPJatoRvLYF?slug=ap-bonds-steroids&prov=ap&type=lgns

[ClockShot]

Feds are gonna call the Giambi Bros. to testify in the Bonds perjury case.

[Triple Naitch]

Varitek finally comes to his senses and agrees to a 1-year deal with the Sox. Can't blame him for trying though

[ClockShot]

Yankees sign Brian Bruney for $1.325 mil. to avoid arbitration.

That's it for our cases.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>John Maine signs for $2.6 million...meanwhile Oliver Perez is still holding out hoping for a better deal despite the Mets offering $10 million per year and Ollie is no better than Maine. Pisses me off sometimes.</font>

[Triple Naitch]

Cubs and Orioles are reportedly working on a deal that could send Rich Hill to Baltimore. Hill is probably the one pitcher most in need of a change in scenery. I hope he gets to play for the O's.

[RP]

Cubs need to sign Manny before the Cards do.

[YOUR Hero]

Cubs need to sign Manny before the Cards do.
Pujols is pushing Manny's name. With Glauss out for the beginning of the season, they may be looking for another big bat. Still guys like Abreu and Dunn out there, but with Pujols pushing Manny's name, you never know....

[RP]

I cant understand how the Mets havent signed Manny yet. THe only thing i can think of is that Manny doesnt wanna play for the Mets.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Manny should have taken the 2 years, $50 million that the Dodgers offered at the beginning of the offseason...because right now he's gonna get lowballed big time. One GM even said he bets the Dodgers could offer 2 years, $30 million and still sign him because nobody else has that much left to spend.

The Mets' priority is getting a starter...hopefully Oliver Perez will be locked up by the weekend. If only there was some way to get Billy Wagner to defer some of the $14 million he will get next year for sitting around doing nothing, the Mets would have enough room to also sign Manny without going over the luxury tax threshold.</font>

[Triple Naitch]

Pujols is trying to convince Manny to take a discount because the Cards fans support their players. If I remember correctly, the Red Sox supported Manny until he became more interested in getting an extension and they turned on each other rather quickly.

[YOUR Hero]

Manny was goofing on fly balls. That last one was the tipping point. The fans shifted from that point on and weren't enamored with Manny being Manny anymore.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>So, according to WFAN's overnight host, the Mets are indeed interested in Manny and he said the team will at least make an offer...he supposedly has a source in Omar's office.

It could very well be bullshit, but the story has spread all over and I'd like to think he wouldn't risk his reputation by bullshitting a story like that. We'll see though.

Mind, that's the same host that broke the news of the Beltran signing well before anyone else...so I wouldn't doubt that he does have some sort of inside source.</font>

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Wow, Mets are fucked. First they lose $500 million from Madoff...and now the government is supposedly gonna be vetoing their $400 million naming rights deal. :|

What pisses me off is that the media is painting the Mets as being assholes for not VOLUNTARILY ending a legal-binding agreement...as though anyone would throw away $400 million without hesitation. Nevermind that the deal was made in 2006 when the economy wasn't in the shitter.

Opening in 2009 - Cat Fancy Fieldhouse!</font>

[Triple Naitch]

Almost as bad as when the Astros played at Enron Field.

[Triple Naitch]

It's official, O's get Rich Hill

[Heros Welcome]

Joel Sherman of the New York Post says the Mets and Perez have agreed to terms on a three-year, $36MM deal (no fourth-year option). Sherman says the signing "all but assures" Pedro Martinez will not be re-signed.

I wanted Ollie back, so I am happy he is back at a reasonable price, but this offseason is still far from a success IMO.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I feel somewhat unfulfilled...only because the K-Rod and Putz acquisitions were almost 2 months ago, and they've really not done anything since except go sideways with the rotation. Definitely still a success though, if the offense can be the same, the bullpen will blow less games.

I hope they somehow shock everyone and get Manny, maybe negotiating the deal in a way that they don't go over the $160 million luxury tax threshold. We'll see.</font>

[ClockShot]

Blue Jays sign Ken Takahashi to a minor league deal. He's got a shot at being a starter.

Blue Jays also throw a minor league offer to Kevin Millar. No word on if he took it or not.

Cubs trade Michael Wuertz to the A's for minor leaguers Richie Robnett and Justin Sellers.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Takahashi is 40 and has a career 4.23 ERA in Japan. I dunno what Ricciardi is expecting but it can't be much.

[ClockShot]

Dodgers pitch Manny another offer. 1-year, $25 mil.

Don't know if he has a choice between this or the 2-year, $45 mil.

[ClockShot]

Manny rejects the Dodgers new offer overnight. Nationals and Giants are on the radar right now.

Red Sox sign Brad Wilkerson.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>lol the Nationals always get into the discussion for every big free agent but they never make the move.

Comeonnnnn Omar, 2 years, $40+ million......set up the deal so that you stay under the luxury tax this year</font> :shifty:

[YOUR Hero]

Might have been wise for Manny to accept that offer. Have a monster year and sign a multi year next year. That's Manny.

[DaveWadding]

Might have been wise for Manny to accept that offer. Have a monster year and sign a multi year next year. That's <strike>Manny</strike> Scott Boras.

[Triple Naitch]

Orioles sign Ty Wigginton to back up 1st and 3rd and split time with Luke Scott at DH

[ClockShot]

White Sox make an offer to Bobby Abreu. 1-year, $8 mil.

Adam Dunn has been sitting on an offer from the Nationals. He's waiting to hear from the Dodgers, his top choice.

[Triple Naitch]

So now the Dodgers may be moving onto Adam Dunn and Orlando Hudson. They could get Dunn, Hudson, and Randy Wolf for less than the cost of one year of Manny Ramirez.

[Triple Naitch]

Scott Boras quote obtained by Yahoo's Tim Brown, which apparently refers to the Dodgers:

"What I do know, you better watch out when you’re playing chicken."

......what a douchebag

[ClockShot]

Royals sign Brian Bannister for 1-year, $1.7 mil.

Mets are shopping Ramon Castro around.

Yankees trade Chase Wright to the Brewers for Eric Fryer.

Rockies trade Corey Wimberly to the A's for Matt Murton.

[RatedGSuperstar]

Matt Murton's been passed around more times than Paris Hilton.

[Hanso Amore]

So now the Dodgers may be moving onto Adam Dunn and Orlando Hudson. They could get Dunn, Hudson, and Randy Wolf for less than the cost of one year of Manny Ramirez.

I would much rather have Manny :)

Seriously, with Manny the Dodgers are a playoff lock again. With Dunn, Hudson and Wolf, they are about the same as the Dbacks.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

That's assuming of course that Manny replicates his .390 avg and rbi per game pace that he put up last year and doesn't turn into a 37 year old primadonna who just got a huge guaranteed paycheck and has zero motivation to produce.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

And assuming that you value one old guy who plays no defense and a history of dogging it over a multi gold glover, a younger, cheaper power hitter who still has upside, and a solid, proven back end starter who might be just a slightly better option than your current choice of Eric Stults.


Of course Hanso, being a Yankees fan, I can't say I'm surprised that you'd rather have Manny. Signing aging talent clearly has a proven track record.

[YOUR Hero]

I think Supreme disagrees with Hanso :D

[Hanso Amore]

And assuming that you value one old guy who plays no defense and a history of dogging it over a multi gold glover, a younger, cheaper power hitter who still has upside, and a solid, proven back end starter who might be just a slightly better option than your current choice of Eric Stults.


Of course Hanso, being a Yankees fan, I can't say I'm surprised that you'd rather have Manny. Signing aging talent clearly has a proven track record.


that Solid Proven starter is just as likely to drop off as Manny.

And Come on, Dunn's best years are no where near Manny's Down years.

Even if Manny goes back to being Manny, he is going to put up a .290, 30, 100 year. Plus he is a clutch player, and a feard hitter which will protect the guys around him.

Dunn is going to probably hit .230, 40, 90 in that lineup, provide no better defense, strikeout a ton and provide no clutch or protection.

I will take a guy that puts it in play rather than Ks 160 times.

[Hanso Amore]

And assuming that you value one old guy who plays no defense and a history of dogging it over a multi gold glover, a younger, cheaper power hitter who still has upside, and a solid, proven back end starter who might be just a slightly better option than your current choice of Eric Stults.


Of course Hanso, being a Yankees fan, I can't say I'm surprised that you'd rather have Manny. Signing aging talent clearly has a proven track record.

Aging or not, Dunn, Hudson and Wolf do not make the Dodgers all that much better. Manny does.

Its not even close.

[Adder]

Hudson is a 15 HR, base stealing, gold glove 2nd basemen

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I dunno, man. Yeah Manny is a great player, but all this contract drama makes me skeptical about him being a positive clubhouse influence. The 3 player package seems like such a better idea to me.

Your defense gets better because while Dunn and Manny are about the same in left, your infield improves greatly with Hudson.

You lose about 20 rbis and about .100 OPS from your LF but you gain Hudson's .800 OPS that I don't think Blake DeWitt will come close to matching. And I know you don't believe me but I swear Dunn has not peaked. You give Mattingly a chance to break Dunn of all the bad habits he developed playing at Great American and he could very well be a .270, 1.000 OPS guy.

And most importantly your rotation gets better with Wolf even if he's injury prone.

It's two different philosophies and both can work I just don't see signing Manny as being a better investment.

[Hanso Amore]

I dunno, man. Yeah Manny is a great player, but all this contract drama makes me skeptical about him being a positive clubhouse influence. The 3 player package seems like such a better idea to me.

Your defense gets better because while Dunn and Manny are about the same in left, your infield improves greatly with Hudson.

You lose about 20 rbis and about .100 OPS from your LF but you gain Hudson's .800 OPS that I don't think Blake DeWitt will come close to matching. And I know you don't believe me but I swear Dunn has not peaked. You give Mattingly a chance to break Dunn of all the bad habits he developed playing at Great American and he could very well be a .270, 1.000 OPS guy.

And most importantly your rotation gets better with Wolf even if he's injury prone.

It's two different philosophies and both can work I just don't see signing Manny as being a better investment.

Its good points. I just prefer proven commodities over the chance to something great.

None of those guys have ever carried a team.

When is the last time a team with Manny on it didnt make the playoffs?

He is just one of those guys that are worth every penny and every headache.

[Hanso Amore]

I dunno, man. Yeah Manny is a great player, but all this contract drama makes me skeptical about him being a positive clubhouse influence. The 3 player package seems like such a better idea to me.

Your defense gets better because while Dunn and Manny are about the same in left, your infield improves greatly with Hudson.

You lose about 20 rbis and about .100 OPS from your LF but you gain Hudson's .800 OPS that I don't think Blake DeWitt will come close to matching. And I know you don't believe me but I swear Dunn has not peaked. You give Mattingly a chance to break Dunn of all the bad habits he developed playing at Great American and he could very well be a .270, 1.000 OPS guy.

And most importantly your rotation gets better with Wolf even if he's injury prone.

It's two different philosophies and both can work I just don't see signing Manny as being a better investment.


If anyone can help Dunn it is Donnie Baseball. But the guy is coming up on 30, and is 8 years into the majors with worsening habits each year.

Donnie is not Jesus :) He can't work miracles.

He couldnt even get Andruw jones above 240....

[Skippord]

MATT MURTON!!!! WOOOOOOOOO!!!! World Series here we come

[Skippord]

as a part of the Rockies new deal to trade exclusively with the A's apparently

[ClockShot]

Ben Sheets is going under the knife. Again.

[Triple Naitch]

Well if he's not getting any good offers, he's better off getting surgery, taking the time to heal correctly, sign with a contending team in August and cash in next winter.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>The pain is almost over.</font> :(

http://imgsrv.wcbs880.com/image/DbLiteGraphic/200902/3849775.jpg

[Adder]

The pain is almost over. :(

http://imgsrv.wcbs880.com/image/DbLiteGraphic/200902/3849775.jpg
How good is the public transit systems to get to the ballpark?

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I know the LIRR goes right past it and I believe those are the tracks you can see in the photo. I'm sure a subway train goes past it too.

[OssMan]

The 7 train drops you off right next to it

[RatedGSuperstar]

Yeah, it's actually pretty easy to make it to Shea (or what's left of it) via the LIRR. The 7 (subway) train also has a stop nearby. (Edit: AssMan beat me while I was looking for Twins ballpark pics)

I'm originally from Wisconsin but go to school out on Long Island, so I see Shea/CitiField every time I'm on my way to/from LaGuardia. When I went home for winter break, they had huge "WELCOME J.J. AND K-ROD" messages up on the LCD screens -- it looks amazing.

I know Mets fans like Vito are probably having a hard time seeing Shea get torn down, but it's definitely going to be worth it. Citi Field is going to be absolutely incredible...you'll forget about Shea after a few weeks there. ;)

The Twins' new outdoor stadium seems to be coming along pretty well, too, but it's not going to open until 2010 IIRC. I still think it's ridiculously stupid to build an open-air stadium in Minnesota and not try to build a retractable roof, but I guess it's their prerogative if they want to sit through 30 degree night games in April and September. :lol:

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b19/jeffbweis/IMG_2955.jpg

http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/future/twins2007901.jpg

[ClockShot]

Dodgers sign Randy Wolf to a 1-year, $5.5 mil contract.

D-Backs sign Tom Gordon to a 1-year, $500k deal with incentives that can get him to $2.5 mil.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Holy shit, A-Rod tested positive for steroids in 2003.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/02/07/alex-rodriguez-steroids/index.html?eref=T1

I'm starting to think Aaron's record will never cleanly be broken.</font> :o

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I would probably cry if the following people ever had positive tests in the past:

-Mike Piazza
-Ken Griffey Jr.
-Albert Pujols (who is seemingly now the last hope for someone clean to break the record, and even that is a long way off)</font>

[Splaya]

The heat is about to turn up on A-rod for sure now.

I said that if A-rod ever tested positive, that I would believe that any person accused in the past of taking steroids in any book, article, newspaper, magazine, is true.

[ClockShot]

Rangers sign Brendan Donnelly to a minor league deal. 1-year, $950K. He also has a clause that if he doesn't make the major league roster from March 27-April 27, he can ask to be released.

Giants offer Joe Crede a 1-year contract. No money has been announced yet.

With the Giants and Dodgers making moves, you think Manny and Boras will bite the bullet and take a 1 or 2 year deal pretty soon?

[MVP]

Manny should have never turned down the 2 year offer from the Dodgers in the first place. That's the best he was gonna get.

[Triple Naitch]

Phillies agree with Ryan Howard on a 3-year, $54 million extension

Andruw Jones expected to sign a minor league deal with the Rangers

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Bobby Abreu might be forced to take a 1 year deal for as little as $3 million. I'm not an Abreu fan but at that price I'd bring him in...even if it means having Daniel Murphy (who I like a lot) start in Triple A.</font>

[Innovator]

Gotta name all 104 guys now

[Innovator]

Torn about A-Rod, I mean he was the guy who baseball couldn't have caught. Supposed to be the savior, now he's tarnished.

But as a Yankee fan, at least it wasn't when he was in pinstripes

[Triple Naitch]

Somebody is getting sued/fired

[Dragon]

A-Rod sure knows how to take pressure off his teammates. Reporters won't even know CC or Tex are at spring training with all the questions Alex will get. But seriously, it sucks since he was supposed to be the one to take over the HR record and make it "clean" again. Now I just don't trust that anybody didn't do steroids. No name will surprise me now. And really, when some of the most talented guys in the majors before they took steroids felt like they had to do it, no wonder fringe players and average ballplayers did it.

Hopefully they just release all the names now and at least try to move forward. If not, a name will be leaked out here and there all season and this will never stop. Plus, I'm sure its not A-Rod and 100 utility guys or fringe players on the list. There must be some more big names.

[Triple Naitch]

This must really suck for the Player's Union. They need to back A-Rod but the only way to get the attention off of him would be if the other names were to be released.

[Dragon]

Also, all 104 names on the list probably won't be the half of it. Just the ones stupid enough to get caught.

I mean, I'm pretty sure that players were aware that they would be tested before the 2003 season, and still 104 players got caught? How stupid can they be.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I actually know some Yankee fans who are happy about this because it now means that out of the three big SS's of 10 years ago, A-Rod cheated and Nomar faded to nothing...meaning Jeter has to be considered the top shortstop of this era of baseball.

I kinda think A-Rod is the only Earth-shattering name of the 104...because if another HUGE name was on it, why wouldn't that have been leaked either?</font>

[Dragon]

<font color=goldenrod>I actually know some Yankee fans who are happy about this because it now means that out of the three big SS's of 10 years ago, A-Rod cheated and Nomar faded to nothing...meaning Jeter has to be considered the top shortstop of this era of baseball.

I kinda think A-Rod is the only Earth-shattering name of the 104...because if another HUGE name was on it, why wouldn't that have been leaked either?</font>

Pretty terrible Yankees fans if they're happy A-Rod cheated. They do know he is gonna be in NY for the next 9 years right? He's gonna be in NY after Jeter is gone and he'll always have this hanging over him now.

I dunno, I'd think there would be some more "household" names on the list. I'm sure A-Rod is the biggest but I can't imagine all the rest are bench guys or something. Unless A-Rod is really that stupid to be the only big name caught. And from what I've read, the only reason A-Rods name was leaked is because the two people that came out with the article were writing a different story on him and somehow got in touch with these sources or whatever about A-Rod.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Yeah I agree, their way of thinking is retarded...but admittedly, I'm pretty certain they would suck Jeter's cock if given the chance...they look for every excuse possible to put him over, including at the expense of his teammates. :o

A-Rod has come clean and admitted that he did it...I kinda hope the other players named all confess as well. The sooner everybody fesses up, the sooner we can put this era behind us.</font>

[Dragon]

Apparently he used in his Texas years. 2001-2003.

Hopefully the list of 104 just gets made public so people can stop speculating and leaking names and everything. Obviously those 104 names probably won't scratch the surface of who did steroids during the era but it'll at least get those names out of the way.

[Adder]

A-Rod has now admitted to using steroids.

***

NEW YORK (AP) - Alex Rodriguez (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/player/85368) admitted Monday that he used performance-enhancing drugs from 2001-03 when he played for the Texas Rangers (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/team/71599).

"Back then it was a different culture. It was very loose. I was young. I was stupid," the New York Yankees star said in an interview with ESPN. "I was naive, and I wanted to prove to everyone that, you know, I was worth, you know — and being one of the greatest players of all time.

His admission came two days after Sports Illustrated reported he tested positive for steroids in 2003, one of 104 players who tested positive during baseball's survey testing, which wasn't subject to discipline.

"It was such a loosey-goosey era. I'm guilty for a lot of things. I'm guilty for being negligent, naive, not asking all the right questions," Rodriguez said. "To be quite honest, I don't know exactly what substance I was guilty of using."

SI.com reported he tested positive for Primobolan and testosterone.

"And I did take a banned substance and, you know, for that I'm very sorry and deeply regretful. And although it was the culture back then and Major League Baseball overall was very — I just feel that — you know, I'm just sorry. I'm sorry for that time. I'm sorry to fans. I'm sorry for my fans in Texas. It wasn't until then that I ever thought about substance of any kind, and since then I've proved to myself and to everyone that I don't need any of that."

Rodriguez directly contradicted a December 2007 interview with CBS's "60 Minutes," when he said, "No" when asked whether he's ever used steroids, human growth hormone or any other performance-enhancing substance.

"I've never felt overmatched on the baseball field," he said then. "I felt that if I did my, my work as I've done since I was, you know, a rookie back in Seattle, I didn't have a problem competing at any level."

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9200338?MSNHPHCP&GT1=39002

[RatedGSuperstar]

I guess the thing I'm surprised about is that anyone really cares (or is shocked, for that matter). There are only a few guys that I would be legitimately surprised to hear they took PEDs in their prime, and Rodriguez wasn't one of them. He's always had the ridiculous power numbers, but the guy looks like a bodybuilder now compared to his last couple years in Seattle.

I don't buy that he only started taking them in Texas, and I don't buy that he's not still on something now. Now that baseball tests for most of the archaic stuff, he's probably moved on to something that can only be detected with a blood test, and the Player's Union would rather have a years-long strike than allow that in the next CBA.

It's been said before in this thread, but he's far from the only guy to have taken something in that timeframe. There's a hell of a lot more that were using than the ones who showed up in that survey testing -- those are the guys who were either too dumb to quit or too arrogant to really care.

[DaveWadding]

:rofl: at that "apology." Blaming it on everyone else but himself.

[YOUR Hero]

"Back then it was a different culture. Really? What was going on in Football and the Olympics??
It was very loose. 'It' nothing, this is about your character, again look at the penalties and public attitdes from other sports
I was young.poor excuse, also, doesn't explain why these guys keep lying about it in interviews when they're older
I was stupid," WAS? That implies past tense. Get your shit together, man

[YOUR Hero]

The cost would be high, but should Yanks unload A-Rod?

When the New York Yankees re-signed Alex Rodriguez in the fall of 2007, they envisioned the "clean" alternative to Barry Bonds — the knight in shining armor who would erase the stain of steroids from the all-time home run record, and they would bask in the glory of it with their brand, according to New York Daily News baseball columnist Bill Madden.

Now that A-Rod's pursuit looks as counterfeit as Bonds', they should do what's best for the organization: Cut him loose — no matter the cost.

As difficult as it is to imagine eating $270 million, the Bombers will be making a statement, not just for the Yankee brand but for baseball as a whole.

They will be applauded for it.

The Yankees operate under two basic tenets: The relentless pursuit of championships and the fierce protection of their brand. If they are going to remain true to both, then they have no choice but to sever ties with Rodriguez.

This winter the Yankees invested $423 million with the signings of CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett and Mark Teixeira. All of that figures to be offset now by the reports that A-Rod was a steroid cheat. Everywhere the Yankees go this spring and into the season, they will be greeted by choruses of "A-Fraud!" and "A-Roid!" And if you think A-Rod wilted under the pressure of big games before, just imagine his delicate psyche now under the heightened scrutiny of the media and fans.

Don't think for a minute that Derek Jeter and the rest of A-Rod's teammates are privately reveling in his exposure as a true phony, as some people are suggesting. This affects all of them, and their pursuit of championships is hindered by his being a constant source of unwanted turmoil.

Source: New York Daily News

***

Why I disagree with the article is because the Yankees did not throw Giambi out with the bath water. Also, the Yankee brand is not as shiny as this reporter seems to portray them. being that it's A-Rod and the whole saga in New York with him, it makes you wonder if it's being considered for this or any other reasons though..

[Dragon]

I saw that article earlier and its kind of ridiculous. Steroids or not he is still one of the top 3 players in baseball right now. Yeah, this whole thing certainly makes 9 years seem like a much longer time but still. Throwing 270 million out the window is just insane, even for the Yankees.

Yeah, baseball will probably applaud the Yankees. And then half the teams in baseball will be running to sign him.

[Dragon]

I guess the thing I'm surprised about is that anyone really cares (or is shocked, for that matter). There are only a few guys that I would be legitimately surprised to hear they took PEDs in their prime, and Rodriguez wasn't one of them. He's always had the ridiculous power numbers, but the guy looks like a bodybuilder now compared to his last couple years in Seattle.

I don't buy that he only started taking them in Texas, and I don't buy that he's not still on something now. Now that baseball tests for most of the archaic stuff, he's probably moved on to something that can only be detected with a blood test, and the Player's Union would rather have a years-long strike than allow that in the next CBA.

It's been said before in this thread, but he's far from the only guy to have taken something in that timeframe. There's a hell of a lot more that were using than the ones who showed up in that survey testing -- those are the guys who were either too dumb to quit or too arrogant to really care.

Well, he had blood tests for the WBC the other year and will have another one this year. He hasn't failed any steroid tests since then.

Obviously he could still be on something, but so can everyone else. That is a huge problem with the drug testing in the first place. It doesn't test for a lot of the stuff going around.

[ClockShot]

Late news. Besides the big A-Rod story today.

Cardinals release Adam Kennedy. Tony La Russa supposedly had a hand in making that happen.

A's sign Edgar Gonzalez to a minor league deal today.

Rays sign Morgan Ensburg to a minor league deal. He can make $650K if he makes the team out of spring training.

Brewers sign Brandon Looper to a 1-year deal.

Giants sign Rich Aurilia to a 1-year, minor league deal. He can make $1 mil. if he makes the team.

Dioner Navarro and the Rays have gone to Arbitration.

Dodgers sign Jeff Weaver to a minor league deal. He'll be fighting for a bullpen spot during spring training, not a starting spot.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Bobby Abreu signs with the Angels.</font>

[Innovator]

Good for Bobby

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I wonder which nickname is going to stick: A-Roid or A-Fraud

he's just ripe for parody isn't he

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Also, I say this every time a big name gets linked to steroids but I'll say it again

PUT PETE IN THE HALL

[Triple Naitch]

I think one of the NY papers had A-Hole

[Triple Naitch]

Nationals reportedly agree with Adam Dunn on a two year contract. Based on Abreu's supposed $5 mil contract, who would have thought Pat Burrell would wind up with more money than either of these guys this offseason?

[Dragon]

Yeah, Burrell and Milton Bradley really seemed to luck out by signing early. Abreu and Dunn are better than both but won't get near the contract of them.

[Boondock Saint]

Apparently Roberto Alomar has the AIDS

[Triple Naitch]

I saw that this morning, wow. Apparently he got raped by two guys when he was 17 after a baseball game and then gave it to his girlfriend a couple years ago.

[YOUR Hero]

What?

Holy cow.

[McLegend]

That's like the worst thing I've ever heard.

[McLegend]

On a side note.

Yeah Burrell :cool:

[Supreme Olajuwon]

So Selig is contemplating adjusting A-Rod's career statistics as punishment for admitting his steroid use.

Now while this is a good idea in theory, it's incredibly dangerous to actually do. First, why are you only contemplating doing this now when A-Rod is not even close to being the first player caught using steroids? Second, you're creating an extra punishment for someone who admitted to cheating, meaning players who did cheat have even more incentive to keep their mouths shut.

[RatedGSuperstar]

I heard that Selig also wants to "officially" make Hank Aaron the All-Time HR King again.

Look, Barry Bonds is a dickwad. He's a scumbag of a human being and I wouldn't be sad if he got hit by a bus tomorrow. He cheated and thought he could get away with it. But you can't just re-write the record books because you think he took steroids. I realize that Selig would get on his knees for Hank because he grew up watching him play every day in Milwaukee while the Braves were still there, but this is just stupid.

Once you start altering the statistics of guys like Bonds and Rodriguez, you're getting yourself into a huge mess of trying to figure out who was clean and who wasn't. You can't just strip the records of the guys that got caught, because there are hundreds others that didn't. In order to do this effectively, you'd basically just have to wipe out everything that happened after an arbitrary date, say 1980.

If you're going to take the records away from Bonds, what's next? Revoking the Giants' NL pennant from 2002/2003 (I forget which year)?

[Hanso Amore]

Simple as this.

When you get caught doping in the olympics, they disqualify you and strip your medals and records.

Do this to Steroids people. Their stats do not count.

No Adjusting....you cheat and your out.

[Dragon]

You do that and there won't be many guys left in baseball from this era. And just because guys don't get caught doesn't mean they didn't do anything. Those 103 names on the list most likely don't even scratch the surface on who's used in the past. And really, how far back do you go to take records down? I'm pretty sure even Hank Aaron himself admitted to using greenies (amphetamines) before, which is something that I think would trigger a failed drug test now.

[Hanso Amore]

You cant give people a pass because EVERYONE didnt get caught. But you have to punish the ones who did. Strike them from record books.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

And what about guys like McGwire, guy that's have no hard evidence but have plenty of hearsay? And what kind of message does this send to those who didn't get caught? It says keep your mouth shut or you'll end up a villain like the guys who fessed up. And what about people who cheated in other ways? Babe Ruth used a corked bat. Whitey Ford altered baseballs. Shouldn't they be stricken from the record books too?

You can't just erase the past. That's as bad as trying to say it never happened.

[SammyG]

I can haz Manny?

[ClockShot]

Yankees sign Brett Tomko to a minor league deal.

Okey doke. :shifty:

[Hanso Amore]

As for the A-rod thing....e does not look like a bodybuilder compared to breaking in.....he is only 10 pounds more now...which I can do with a trainer in 3 months,

It sucks cause he was the best shot a a legit record...and he ruined it for an extra 15 HRs over his career average before the roids.

[Hanso Amore]

And what about guys like McGwire, guy that's have no hard evidence but have plenty of hearsay? And what kind of message does this send to those who didn't get caught? It says keep your mouth shut or you'll end up a villain like the guys who fessed up. And what about people who cheated in other ways? Babe Ruth used a corked bat. Whitey Ford altered baseballs. Shouldn't they be stricken from the record books too?

You can't just erase the past. That's as bad as trying to say it never happened.

Ok...so ignore the Fact so you can hope the possible becomes real.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>lol Hugo Chavez is all pissed off at the Mets for asking Santana to not participate in the WBC...even though the Venezuelan Baseball Federation came out and said that they were not willing to pay the insurance premium to add Johan to the roster anyway.</font>

[Triple Naitch]

Mets sign Livan Hernandez to a minor league deal. His brother is gonna be pissed.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

HAPPY PITCHERS AND CATCHERS DAY EVERYBODY

[OssMan]

I don't really seem to care. I'm not as interested in baseball anymore

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Wow, Jerry Manuel is considering batting Luis Castillo leadoff if he feels Luis is failing to get it going.

I'm not sure how I feel about that...I mean yeah if Castillo is "on", he will mainly be slapping in singles and it'd make sense to have Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Delgado etc. behind him to try and drive him in - better than having him bat 8th and hit a single only for the pitcher to ground into a double play.

But then again Reyes is one of the top leadoff hitters in the game, and this planned lineup doesn't even have him batting 2nd, but 3rd (with Daniel Murphy or Ryan Church batting 2nd). He could get over 100 RBI easily if the leadoff and #2 batters do their jobs, but if they don't you'll only be costing him some at-bats. The Mets' strength last year was scoring first inning runs.

If nothing else I give Jerry credit for thinking outside the box.</font>

[Hanso Amore]

Today's leadoff hitters are a joke anyway, so what does it matter.

[YOUR Hero]

In what sense, Hanso

[DaveWadding]

I hope the Dodgers resign Manny...mostly so I can sit in Left Field during the Spring and verbally harass him.

[ClockShot]

Dodgers were kind enough to reserve him a locker for spring training.

[Hanso Amore]

In what sense, Hanso

There is a severe lak of classical lead off hitters. There is little to no speed guys with high average or OBP.

there are more Wily Taveras and Juan Pierre like players than there should be.

Outside of Reyes and Rollins, the leadoff spot is fairly weak.

[DaveWadding]

There is a severe lak of classical lead off hitters. There is little to no speed guys with high average or OBP.

there are more Wily Taveras and Juan Pierre like players than there should be.

Outside of Reyes and Rollins, the leadoff spot is fairly weak.

Gayboy Sizemore says hello.

[Triple Naitch]

I think you mean Gaydy Sizequeen

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Hanley
Kinsler
Granderson
Roberts
Ichiro
Figgins
Damon

[Triple Naitch]

In Luis' defense, his best seasons came as a leadoff hitter. Maybe he'll be rejuvinated at the top spot.

[Hanso Amore]

Sizemore is a number 3 hitter batting 1st. But yeah he is decent.

But look up and down the league...most teams have a Default leadoff hitter.

[DaveWadding]

There is little to no speed guys with high average or OBP.



Sizemore is a number 3 hitter batting 1st. But yeah he is decent.




Gayboy: 268/375/502, 38/43 steals

Shut the fuck up.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Well there's 10 good leadoff guys right there

11 if you count Soriano
12 if Kemp or Furcal leads off for the Dodgers this year
13 if Ellsbury matures
14 if DeJesus keeps his pace
15 if Schumaker plays like he did last year
16 if you like that Blanco kid in Atlanta (which I do)

and even though he won't this year, Jerry Hairston had a .427 OBP from the leadoff spot last year

[Hanso Amore]

Well there's 10 good leadoff guys right there

11 if you count Soriano
12 if Kemp or Furcal leads off for the Dodgers this year
13 if Ellsbury matures
14 if DeJesus keeps his pace
15 if Schumaker plays like he did last year
16 if you like that Blanco kid in Atlanta (which I do)

and even though he won't this year, Jerry Hairston had a .427 OBP from the leadoff spot last year

You are just naming guys.

I will submit that Reyes, Rollins, Sizemore and Granderson are good leadoff hitters. Ichiro is too.

The rest are sub-average at best. Hanley moves around the order and might stay down towards three this year.

[Triple Naitch]

Ichiro is the best leadoff hitter IMO. He is an on base machine, can lay down a bunt at any time, steals like a bandit, and constantly puts the ball in play.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Well yeah I was just naming names because it's a lot easier than having to go in depth. But since that's not good enough for you I guess we'll have to.

A good leadoff hitter as you've defined the term is a "speed guy with high average or OBP." Let's get crackin

Hanley Ramirez
The projected #1 fantasy player this year had 622 plate appearances from the leadoff spot last season and managed to hit .301 while posting a .400 OBP. He also swiped 35 bases and scored a whopping 125 while only managing 67 rbis.
Verdict: Great leadoff hitter


Ian Kinlser
In his 3rd year in the majors, Kinsler got 578 plate appearances as the Rangers leadoff man. During that time he posted .319 avg and a .375 OBP. He stole a respectable 26 bases but more impressively was only caught twice. He also hit 41 doubles and scored 102 runs.
Verdict: Very good leadoff hitter

Brian Roberts
In 702 leadoff appearances last year, Roberts hit .296 with a .379 OBP. He stole a very nice 40 bases. He also hit 51 doubles, 2nd most in the majors, and scored 107 runs.
Verdict: Very good leadoff hitter

Chone Figgins
An injury plagued year for Figgins, but in 512 leadoff appearances he still posted a .373 OPB. In just 116 games, he drew 62 walks. He also stole 34 bags.
Verdict: Good leadoff hitter

Johnny Damon
In 606 leadoff appearances last season, Damon posted a nice .376 OBP and hit .303. Even at the ripe old age of 34, he still stole 29 bases and scored 95 runs.
Verdict: Good leadoff hitter

[Triple Naitch]

Supposedly, Hanley and Reyes are both rumored to begin the season in the 3-hole.

[ClockShot]

Rumor around the 'net is that Ken Griffey Jr. has agreed to terms with the Braves.

It came out of an Atlanta newspaper, so take it for what it's worth.

[YOUR Hero]

Anyone read Jesse Ventura's interview?

[Triple Naitch]

Yeah, he's a douche

[Boomer]

Rumor around the 'net is that Ken Griffey Jr. has agreed to terms with the Braves.

It came out of an Atlanta newspaper, so take it for what it's worth.

Apparently the Braves are the easiest team to change your mind on last minute.

Sheesh.

[Triple Naitch]

Sources have indicated that Griffey's tide turned shortly after he became upset with the fact that The Atlanta-Journal Constitution was reporting that he'd already decided to play for the Braves.

Sounds like he really didn't care about the money, but more the respect that he was going to be given.

[ClockShot]

Ken Griffey Jr. going back to the Mariners. 1-year, $2 mil. With $2.5 mil. in incentives.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I don't even really care about the Mariners but seeing Griffey go back home kinda makes me mark out.</font>

[Boomer]

I don't buy the respect thing at all. It's the newspaper's job to report on those kind of things. He probably had decided to play for Atlanta more or less, but he hadn't signed anything.

And how is blaming one newspaper (or any, for that matter) fair reason for not joining a team. Tons of other media outlets had the same reports coming out, not just the AJC.

I side with David O'Brien, who writes most of the Braves worthy news articles. He talked to Wren and Chipper, who had both talked to Griffey on the phone, and they were excited. What's not to report when most tell-tale signs are he's leaning one way?

But no matter. Not exactly a huge loss. But the Braves will basically spend the first half of the year without a credible clean-up hitter. Not the Griffey would have been that for us anyway.

[Innovator]

Nice to see Griffey going home, I just can't wait for BASEBALL and hopefully steroid talk can die down.

CC, AJ, Wang, Joba, Pettite

Damon, Jeter, Tex, AROD, Nady, Matsui, Posada, Cano, Melky/Swisher/Gardner

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Looking at photos from Mets spring training - it appears they have a logo on their hats that are different from the Citi Field inaugural season logo. I can only hope they changed it.</font> :o

[Supreme Olajuwon]

You mean this one?


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3257/3174470956_e547c97ba0_o.png

[Supreme Olajuwon]

If it's that one it won't be on the jerseys for the regular season because of the no advertising rules.

[Triple Naitch]

That one's MUCH better

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Shit forgot about those rules. Supposedly though they WILL be on the caps all season, maybe because the actual Citi logo will be small.

I've heard the Mets are considering fazing black out of the uniforms entirely, which I would be in support of. I didn't mind the black at first as it was different but I definitely prefer white unis with blue caps.</font>

[Triple Naitch]

I prefer the solid white Mets unis over the blue pinstripe ones. It distinguishes them more from the Yankees and it looks sharper.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I would like the solid ones too if they got rid of the black.

[Hanso Amore]

Buffalo's AAA team is now the Mets affiliate. And they started using mets inspired unis and logos. Very cool looking.

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/mets/Buffalo-Bisons.jpg

[Splaya]

Apparently the drug A-rod used is illegal in the Dominican.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Brian Roberts gets a 4 year, $40 million extension through 2013. Good move for Baltimore.

[Adder]

They were shopping Roberts around pretty actively it seemed last year. Maybe they still are. Just that now a team would have a signed Roberts being sent to them as opposed to a F/A Roberts. But yes, Baltimore did the right thing and they should keep him.

[ClockShot]

Orlando Hudson to the Dodgers. $3.4 mil. with $4.6 mil in incentives.

Time's running out, Manny.

[Adder]

Base salaries with incentives really seems to be the trend. I do like it. More performance based than these guaranteed deals. In fact, I'd say it should become an official standard.

[DaveWadding]

O-Dawg - 3.4 + incentives

Felipe Lopez - 3.5

Kill me.

[SammyG]

HUDSON SHOWWWWWWW

[DaveWadding]

17TH OVERALL PICk SHOWWWWWWWWWWWWW

[Triple Naitch]

Twins reportedly agree with Joe Crede.

Rays sign Isringhausen to minor league deal.

[ClockShot]

Rangers sign Kris Benson to a minor-league deal.

Heh heh heh.

[Hanso Amore]

Twins reportedly agree with Joe Crede.

Rays sign Isringhausen to minor league deal.

Rays are really going at the cheap older reliever deal. I like it. Low Risk, High Reward.

SOmeone get their management on wall street

[Hanso Amore]

O-Dawg - 3.4 + incentives

Felipe Lopez - 3.5

Kill me.

I bet his incentives are easy. X amount of At Bats, games played etc.

He will most certainly earn the full total.

[DaveWadding]

yeah the incentive is probably "Dont have a season ending injury"

[YOUR Hero]

O-Dog's the man.

[DaveWadding]

Yes. Yes he is.

[SammyG]

If we can resign Manny... watch out.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>I really can't see Manny going anywhere other than the Dodgers at this point. The only other team that might be able to grab him would be the Giants, and even then I just don't see it.</font>

[ClockShot]

Garret Anderson to the Braves. 1-year, $2.5 mil.

[YOUR Hero]

I'm a Garret Anderson fan.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I think Garrett still has more left in the tank than Griffey so I think the Braves really made out better in this situation for only a slightly higher price tag.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Yeah Anderson is a solid player.

The NL East is gonna be mad exciting this year. I ultimately think it'll come down to the Mets and Phillies again but the Braves should be good and the Marlins are always a team that can put it together and contend even when no one thinks they will.</font>

[Boomer]

I'm excited and scared for the Braves. Our pitching looks pretty spectacular in the long run, considering we've got Hudson and potential stud Tommy Hanson waiting to enter the rotation later on, but our lineup looks like a clusterfuck. We currently are without a good leadoff and cleanup hitter, and have to force guys who do much better at other parts in the lineup to fill in.

Jeff Francoeur better prove everybody wrong, though. I'm pretty sick of fans talking so much about him. I mean he was atrocious last year, but we've got plenty of other problems. Our lack of outfield power is astounding.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Since I'm bored, here's my breakdown of the Mets:

-Lineup: Luis Castillo playing well is absolutely key. If he can get on base and hit around .280 I'll be satisfied, him playing well and getting on base before the big hitters (which may or may not include Reyes) is huge. Not sure I totally agree with Manuel already handing the LF job fulltime to Daniel Murphy (although I think platooning him is counterproductive) because he said Tatis might platoon with Church and that might piss Church off.

-Rotation: Mike Francesa was going on and on about how many question marks the Mets rotation has and how only Santana can be considered a lock to win 15 games, Pelfrey is risky coming off his first full season, Perez can be inconsistent, Maine is coming off an injury, and they haven't identified a 5th starter yet. At the same time, he said the entire Yankees rotation is a lock for 15 wins each at minimum and they should all easily be able to make 30 starts each. Fuck off, Fatcessa.

-Bullpen: Everyone seems to think K-Rod is gonna bomb, but I dunno, I feel MUCH better about the bullpen. I doubt he will be as good as last year, but still a huge improvement. The Mets had a killer bullpen in 2006 and that offset their rotation (which on Opening Day included the likes of Steve Trachsel, Victor Zambrano, and Brian Bannister). If Duaner Sanchez can get back to the level of play he had in 2006 prior to his injury, they will have a nasty 7-8-9 combo.

-Bench: I'm actually more worried about the bench than any other phase of the team. Their 4th outfielder will be either Jeremy Reed or Cory Sullivan (lefties). Their reserve middle infielder is Alex Cora (lefty). Ramon Castro is a righty but the backup catcher so not a pinch-hit canidate. Fernando Tatis could be a righty off the bench, but on days he's starting that would mean another lefty on the bench. Lastly, they seem inclined to bring Marlon Anderson, yet ANOTHER lefty. If he could play like he did in 05-07, then great...but otherwise I kinda hope they eat his contract and bring along Angel Pagan, Bobby Kielty, or even Jose Valentin.</font>

[Adder]

Jeremy Reed needs to blossom soon. Maybe this will be the time and place for him.

[ClockShot]

Nationals release no-show pitcher Odalis Perez.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Jeez Perez is a dickhead. He signs a contract on February 5th and 2 weeks later he no shows camp because he wants more money. ok


He might be dead though cause no one seems to know where he is

[RatedGSuperstar]

<font color=goldenrod>
-Rotation: Mike Francesa was going on and on about how many question marks the Mets rotation has and how only Santana can be considered a lock to win 15 games, Pelfrey is risky coming off his first full season, Perez can be inconsistent, Maine is coming off an injury, and they haven't identified a 5th starter yet. At the same time, he said the entire Yankees rotation is a lock for 15 wins each at minimum and they should all easily be able to make 30 starts each. Fuck off, Fatcessa.</font>

Francesa's fucking nuts if he thinks Burnett's making 30 starts this year. He's never had back-to-back 30-start seasons in his career. I wouldn't even be surprised if Sabathia broke down a bit after being ridden so hard by the Brewers down the stretch last year and misses the 30-start mark. Chamberlain's started 12 games his entire career and he's 23 years old...expecting him to make 30 this year might be pushing it. They'd be better off skipping his spot in the rotation a few times, otherwise they can start to watch him turn into Mark Prior.

Nevermind the fact that pitchers these days have very little control over their W-L records, so saying they're all a lock for 15 wins is borderline retarded. Christ...no wonder I stopped listening to him more than a year ago.

[Heros Welcome]

Francesa is a pompous asshole.

[Hanso Amore]

Where is Reed playing these days?

He is like, what, 30 now?

[Evil Vito]

Where is Reed playing these days?

He is like, what, 30 now?

<font color=goldenrod>Reed is 27 and is on the Mets, he came over in the trade that also sent JJ Putz and Sean Green to NY. He's competing with Cory Sullivan for the 4th outfielder job...from what I can gather, they are essentially the same player...and both of them are essentially the same player as Endy Chavez, whose role they are replacing.</font>

[Evil Vito]

Francesa's fucking nuts if he thinks Burnett's making 30 starts this year. He's never had back-to-back 30-start seasons in his career. I wouldn't even be surprised if Sabathia broke down a bit after being ridden so hard by the Brewers down the stretch last year and misses the 30-start mark. Chamberlain's started 12 games his entire career and he's 23 years old...expecting him to make 30 this year might be pushing it. They'd be better off skipping his spot in the rotation a few times, otherwise they can start to watch him turn into Mark Prior.

Nevermind the fact that pitchers these days have very little control over their W-L records, so saying they're all a lock for 15 wins is borderline retarded. Christ...no wonder I stopped listening to him more than a year ago.

<font color=goldenrod>Yeah it pisses me off. I mean yeah, on paper, I've got no problem saying the Yanks' rotation is better than the Mets'. If all involved were healthy and pitching normal, they definitely have the edge.

But it chaps my ass how he routinely badmouths the Mets yet gives the Yanks a pass for the same shit. Saying John Maine, who has only had one big enough injury in his career to keep him out and is healthy now, is an injury risk yet not mentioning Burnett who has had about 1923393 injuries is absurd.

What's also absurd is that he made a big deal about how pitchers have historically had a bad year a season after they pitched a significant amount of innings more than the previous year and how Pelfrey is a prime canidate for that...again, Burnett could be mentioned.</font>

[Dragon]

Francesa's fucking nuts if he thinks Burnett's making 30 starts this year. He's never had back-to-back 30-start seasons in his career. I wouldn't even be surprised if Sabathia broke down a bit after being ridden so hard by the Brewers down the stretch last year and misses the 30-start mark. Chamberlain's started 12 games his entire career and he's 23 years old...expecting him to make 30 this year might be pushing it. They'd be better off skipping his spot in the rotation a few times, otherwise they can start to watch him turn into Mark Prior.

Nevermind the fact that pitchers these days have very little control over their W-L records, so saying they're all a lock for 15 wins is borderline retarded. Christ...no wonder I stopped listening to him more than a year ago.

The Yankees have said Joba will be the 5th starter so they can skip him whenever they can. He's probably gonna be at 150 innings or something.

Francesa is an idiot though. Everytime Joba's name is brought up he has to do the whole Joba to the bullpen routine.

[Dragon]

<font color=goldenrod>Yeah it pisses me off. I mean yeah, on paper, I've got no problem saying the Yanks' rotation is better than the Mets'. If all involved were healthy and pitching normal, they definitely have the edge.

But it chaps my ass how he routinely badmouths the Mets yet gives the Yanks a pass for the same shit. Saying John Maine, who has only had one big enough injury in his career to keep him out and is healthy now, is an injury risk yet not mentioning Burnett who has had about 1923393 injuries is absurd.

What's also absurd is that he made a big deal about how pitchers have historically had a bad year a season after they pitched a significant amount of innings more than the previous year and how Pelfrey is a prime canidate for that...again, Burnett could be mentioned.</font>

According to Mike Francesa, Burnett will be a star here because he is such a handsome guy and the ladies will love him. When I actually heard him say that it was about as awkward a radio silence as there could possibly be.

[Evil Vito]

According to Mike Francesa, Burnett will be a star here because he is such a handsome guy and the ladies will love him. When I actually heard him say that it was about as awkward a radio silence as there could possibly be.

<font color=goldenrod>LOL didn't hear that one. :lol: Wow. Even though Mad Dog hated the Mets too, having him on there to at least counter some of Mike's BS was a million times better.

According to Fox Radio in LA, Manny and the Dodgers have agreed on a 2-year contract with a 3rd year incentive-based option.</font>

[Hanso Amore]

<font color=goldenrod>Reed is 27 and is on the Mets, he came over in the trade that also sent JJ Putz and Sean Green to NY. He's competing with Cory Sullivan for the 4th outfielder job...from what I can gather, they are essentially the same player...and both of them are essentially the same player as Endy Chavez, whose role they are replacing.</font>

27, thats it? i thought he was older. He has been on the cusp of breaking out for years.

I actually like Sullivan more. He has a decent stroke, and in the mets Lineup could go .280, 15 65 out of the bottom of the lineup.

[Evil Vito]

27, thats it? i thought he was older. He has been on the cusp of breaking out for years.

I actually like Sullivan more. He has a decent stroke, and in the mets Lineup could go .280, 15 65 out of the bottom of the lineup.

<font color=goldenrod>Well regardless of who wins between Reed and Sullivan, they won't be playing everyday unless there's an injury. Murphy-Beltran-Church appears to be the everyday outfield with Tatis getting some starts in one of the corner spots against lefties. Reed/Sullivan's assignment is going to primarily be late-inning defense. And in Citi Field, the walls in LF and RF are really high, so no Endy Chavez-like catches are required or possible.

I kinda like going into the season as the underdog. After the Santana trade last year most people pegged the Mets as the favorites...but despite revamping the bullpen this year, most places are saying the Phillies will win, not that I blame them as it's always hard to bet against the defending WS champs.

But the Phils had one of if not the best bullpens in baseball and won the division by like 3 games, Brad Lidge didn't blow a save (something I just can't see happening again). Meanwhile the Mets blew like 30 saves or something ridiculous like that. They get even half of those back and they win the division by a sizable margin.</font>

[Supreme Olajuwon]

First spring training games start today. Woooooooo

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Yeah I love the day of first ST games, meaningless as they might be. Sitting here on a cold winter Wednesday listening to the Orioles radio station coverage of the game.</font> :o

[OssMan]

Orioles have great radio announcers. Frad manfra and jim palmer or somethin like that

[ClockShot]

Dodgers throw Manny a new offer. 2-years, $45 mil.

However, the first year is for $25 mil. The second is a player option for $20 mil.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>lol I love Spring Training. Jerry Manuel has posted the lineups for the game today and he has Oliver Perez batting 2nd to ensure a plate appearance and he's gonna bunt regardless of whether or not Luis Castillo gets on ahead of him.</font>

[Innovator]

Spring training or not, I'm so happy to have baseball on right now

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Ditto. Jerry Manuel has been having his batters do a new drill where they all hit to opposite field for 80 straight pitches...and thus far most of their hits have been to opposite field and they are currently hitting a ton including 2 Jose Reyes dingers from the 3 spot.

Still 38 days to Opening Day</font> :(

[ClockShot]

Dodgers sign Doug Mientkiewicz to a minor league deal and will be at spring training once he passes a physical.

[SammyG]

Fuck Doug Mientkiewicz or whatever, get manny already.

[RP]

Can someone help me make sense of this?






Giants sign Lincecum to $650K contractComment Email Print Share Associated Press
SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. -- Tim Lincecum agreed to a $650,000, one-year contract with the San Francisco Giants on Thursday.



Lincecum

The 24-year-old Lincecum won the National League Cy Young Award in 2008, going 18-5 with a 2.62 ERA while striking out a major league-leading 265 batters in 227 innings.

He ranked third in the major leagues in ERA and winning percentage, and was second in the NL in ERA and victories.

Lincecum, who made his major league debut on May 6, 2007, is likely to be eligible for salary arbitration after the 2009 season.

[ClockShot]

Well. One reason is they gotta pay off Zito.

[Triple Naitch]

Lincecum is not arbitration eligible yet. The Giants only have to pay him whatever they feel like paying him. I'm sure he'll shatter pitcher arbitration records once he is eligible.

[Hanso Amore]

Lincecum is not arbitration eligible yet. The Giants only have to pay him whatever they feel like paying him. I'm sure he'll shatter pitcher arbitration records once he is eligible.

This.

Arbitration is crazy.

Very much different than any other sport RP.

[SammyG]

WTF Fuck you Manny. What the hell do you want?! This is ridiculous. It's getting to the point that I don't want Manny to be a Dodger anymore.

[RP]

This.

Arbitration is crazy.

Very much different than any other sport RP.

i see

[RP]

was trying to figure out how the Cy Young winner didnt rape the Giants for a monster contract.

[ClockShot]

WTF Fuck you Manny. What the hell do you want?! This is ridiculous. It's getting to the point that I don't want Manny to be a Dodger anymore.

A few writers and analysts said that if Manny rejects this one, then he probably won't be playing at all.

It's looking like that.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>As much as Manny would help any lineup (including the Mets) I just don't want him anymore. He would completely kill the "team first" mindset that Manuel has installed this spring. What a dick.</font>

[Triple Naitch]

It's really pathetic, with all these people losing their houses and jobs, that Manny refuses to play baseball for $20 million.

[MVP]

Had Manny not been traded, all this bullshit he's pulling over his contract would have been with Theo Epstein. Dodged a bullet there.

[DaveWadding]

way too many fuckin Dodgers fans here today. heard like 5432562156 conversations about Manny. no one gives a shit. go back to LA you fucks

[DaveWadding]

btw the contract Manny turned down was like 2 years 20 mil upfront plus 25 mil in deferred payments

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Johan got scratched from today's start because of elbow tightness that he supposedly experiences every year. Fair enough...but now he's been scratched for a start on Tuesday as well.

I reallllllllly hope this is just a product of "well ST started a week early and ends a week late this year, no need to start yet", cause the thought of Santana having to miss any length of time makes me go cold.</font> :o

[ClockShot]

Mets sign Ron Villone to a minor league deal.

[Splaya]

Rumor coming out is that Santanna might miss his opening day start

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Santana going to NY for tests...fuck. This is the exact same progression every time a Mets player gets a serious injury...they downplay it, send him for tests, and then find out he'll be out for a long time. Losing him offsets anything positive they did this offseason.</font>

[ClockShot]

Nationals GM Jim Bowden resigns.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Santana threw a 35 pitch bullpen session at about 80-85% effort and reports that he feels good. The tightness in his elbow hasn't re-developed so they canceled his MRI, partly because of that and partly because NY is gonna be getting a Noreaster.

They are hopeful that even if he winds up missing Opening Day, he'll still be ready to be plugged in somewhere in the first turn of the rotation.</font> :cool:

[ClockShot]

Orlando Cabrera to the A's. 1-year, $4 mil.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Nomar Garciaparra to the A's as well.</font>

[Loose Cannon]

Juan "Gone" Gonzalez to the San Francisco Flyers.

1 year, $450

[Triple Naitch]

dollars?

[Triple Naitch]

Orioles invite all fans to attend a game in 2009 for free
03/03/2009 11:21 AM ET
MLB.com

In the latest addition to the Birdland Stimulus Package that was introduced last week, the Orioles are inviting all baseball fans to celebrate their birthdays at Camden Yards and attend a game for free in 2009. The birthday ticket promotion is part of the Orioles' continued commitment to provide the most affordable and valuable entertainment option in the region and is one of a number of new birthday celebration options the club will offer at Oriole Park beginning this season. The Orioles will also offer kids' birthday party packages, visits from the Oriole Bird, scoreboard surprises and birthday certificates to help fans celebrate their special day at the ballpark.
All fans who register at orioles.com/birthdays will receive a voucher good for one complimentary Upper Reserve ticket to any non-prime game in their birthday month. Fans with birthdays from January through March will receive a voucher to an April game, and fans with birthdays in October to December may attend a game in September.

"Thousands of fans choose to celebrate their birthdays at Oriole Park each year, and we want to make sure the opportunity remains as affordable and enjoyable as possible," said Orioles Director of Communications GREG BADER.

Also new this year, the Orioles will offer an all-inclusive birthday party package for kids 14 and under and their guests. For $25 per person ($35 per person for prime games), each member of the birthday party will receive a game ticket in the Terrace Box area in right field, along with vouchers for a kid-sized hot dog, popcorn and soda. In addition, the party will be announced on the Camden Yards video board and the Oriole Bird will make a visit to the birthday section during the game.

Fans of all ages can have their birthday recognized at the ballpark and help a charitable cause at the same time by scheduling a visit from the Oriole Bird or a Scoreboard Surprise. For a $75 donation to the Orioles Charitable Foundation, the Oriole Bird will bring a goody bag directly to the birthday celebrant's seat. For a $25 donation to the Foundation, the birthday will be listed on the Oriole Park center field scoreboard during the game. Reservations for these two options must be placed at least 48 hours in advance by visiting orioles.com or calling 888-848-BIRD.

Finally, all fans who are celebrating a birthday can stop by any of the Fan Assistance locations at Oriole Park during the game to receive a free certificate customized to commemorate the special day. For more information on the Orioles' birthday offerings, visit orioles.com/birthdays or call 888-848-BIRD.

This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Manny's a Dodger again

2 years $45 million

now everybody shut the fuck up

[ClockShot]

Yup. I can go to Disneyworld on my birthday for free, too.

But I'd rather take the chance and maybe see the great Cal Ripken Jr. than Mickey Mouse.

[SammyG]

Welcome back Manny.

World Series here we come

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Well that pretty much puts the Dodgers on "lock" status for the division, barring any huge setbacks of course. I'd say the Cubs are probably there too, the Brewers lost CC and Sheets and signed Trevor Hoffman so I can't see them being as big of a factor. The East is the toughest one to call with 4 teams I could legitimately see winning it (along with an improved Nationals club), I'm thinking 2 from the East will be in the playoffs...hopefully the Mets being one of them.

Ditto for the AL East, I'm certain two of the Rays, Red Sox, and Yanks will be in...in fact I'll say that the 3rd place finisher in that division will have a better record than the Central/West division winners. I think the Tigers will be better, I just can't see how they could be worse...maybe 3rd place or something. And in the West it'll be a dogfight with the Angels and A's.

Still more than a month. fuck</font>

[YOUR Hero]

So I wonder if Manny is already rubbing thin with the laid back Dodgers fans

[YOUR Hero]

wadda ya think, Supreme?

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I don't think he is yet, but he very well could be if the Dodgers don't perform well. I don't think LA fans are being very realistic about their expectations for Manny. He's not going to hit .390 again and he's not going to be this god that instantly makes the team World Series favorites. I would say that maybe the move to LA was enough to help him mature and become a reliable team player, but after this contract thing, I highly doubt it.

Even with Manny, I don't think the gap between LA and Arizona as big as people are saying, and if Upton has his breakout year this season, which I think he will, the D Backs might shock some people.

[ClockShot]

Well since Barry Bonds' perjury trial is on indefinate hold, his agent has contacted all 30 teams to see if they'll take him. I doubt anybody takes him since he'll probably file collusion charges with the union.

The Nationals are the 1st team to decline.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Johan threw a 46-pitch bullpen session today using his entire repertoire and said he feels great and has no doubt he will be ready to pitch April 6th. :love: Awesome.

Although I ultimately don't care when he pitches so long as it is in the first turn through so he doesn't miss any starts...I just love the tradition of having your ace go on Opening Day, especially a guy like Santana.</font>

[RP]

Said he might not go Opening day. I'm watching because i drafted him with my first pick


Also. Manny just signed. Really happy about this. Manny Ramirez is one of my favorite players because of his carefree attitude . I just love the guy for some reason. He brings it and he has fun doing so. It's rare attribute in baseball players these days. I really love the guy alot. My 3rd favorite player behind Kenny Griff and Carlos Zambrano.

[SammyG]

Dodgers lineup is pretty sick. I mean, it's gonna be somethin like.

Furcal
Kemp
Ethier
Manny
Loney
Hudson
Blake
Martin
Pitcher

Come on. But yeah, our pitching kinda sorta sucks this year. Billingsley and Kuroda really need to step up, Kershaw needs to become amazing like everyone says he will be. Losing Lowe sucked

[WestNZ]

any word on weather BOnds has got a team this year, or has he done the right thing and f****n quit

[Droford]

For some reason I think the Giants pitching will be enough to win them the NL West even though they have probably the 2nd or 3rd worst offense in baseball.

[MVP]

I see LA and Arizona duking it out for 1st in the NL West this year, with San Francisco hanging around third place.