Who is the shittiest wrestler to ever be deemed a legend

[Destor]

I'm voting Giant Babba

[Loose Cannon]

really? like you're talking "wrestling" as in actual in ring work?

[Linkbowler]

If it's in-ring work, Hogan. By 10,000 miles.

[Destor]

really? like you're talking "wrestling" as in actual in ring work?
yeah

[Xero]

Jim Ross.

Is considered a legend and has technically wrestled. Even has a win over Triple H...

[Destor]

DON'T BE A SMART ASS :mad:

[Xero]

;)

My mind is actually running a blank.

[Loose Cannon]

oh ok. yea, Baba was terrible in the ring. he's be one of my top guys. have to think about it. it most likely be guys in the earlier eras cause the workrate wasn't that great back then. Lots of bearhugs and crap.

[Destor]

Baba could barely move, it's not even about the lack of work rate with him. He was just REALLY bad. No clue how he got so over because I've seen NOTHING from him that says he should be.

[SammyG]

Hogan sucked ass in the ring.

[Dorkchop]

Lex Luger was ass. He was given the world and still couldn't get over.

[Xero]

Luger's up there. Not the shittiest legend, but definitely shittiest Legen-star.

[Destor]

I don't think Luger is called a legend by anyone with sense though. Could be wrong about that though.

[Destor]

Luger's up there. Not the shittiest legend, but definitely shittiest Legen-star.
Yeah

[Loose Cannon]

nah, he was pretty awesome early one. you have to understand Lex was fucked over a couple times when he was on top. WCW should of put the belt on him in 88 over Flair when he was hot, but had Flair beat him and killed it.

In 94, again he was over in WWF heading into Summerslam and what do they do? Count out victory over Yoko. that will never get you over.

Althought Luger sucked later on, I'll always defend the guy because of his earlier stuff

[Loose Cannon]

Legend though? Nah. Too much bad shit he recognized for

[thedamndest]

I would first ask who is doing the legend deeming.

[El Fangel]

Hogan

Close thread.

[AKin3D]

I'll say Hogan. I do agree on Giant Babba, but he's really not that knowen anymore.

[Jeritron]

Luger's entire career was one big house of fire

[El Fangel]

Luger's entire career was one big house of fire

Jeff Hardy too.

[Jeritron]

Not at all

[Jeritron]

even though I see what you did there

[U-Warrior]

Baba could barely move, it's not even about the lack of work rate with him. He was just REALLY bad. No clue how he got so over because I've seen NOTHING from him that says he should be.

From what decades did you see him wrestle?

I've seen his stuff from the 60's and it's damn good. Great psycology, and he mves faster than some of the guys in wwe right now.

[Jeritron]

John Legend. He appeard at Wrestlemania 24 and couldn't wrestle for shit

[El Fangel]

I am seriously drawing a complete blank.

[FourFifty]

Luger or Hogan..... Hmmmmm....

I'm gonna say Luger. Lex was the headline for WWE and WCW. He had the world, and pissed it away. It's not like he was a midcarder, or an upper main eventer and pissed it away. It's not like he was a flash in the pan, and then pissed it away. He had it all, and now has nothing.

[Juan]

Mick Foley

[FourFifty]

I gotta ask ya- Why Foley?
I can give you some reasons, but Foley being the shittiest one?

[BobBitchen]

Mick Foley


x infinity

[El Fangel]

I gotta ask ya- Why Foley?
I can give you some reasons, but Foley being the shittiest one?

[Jeritron]

Ever heard of psychology?

[El Fangel]

Ever heard of psychology?

Yeah, Sychology is pretty shitty though.

[Juan]

I gotta ask ya- Why Foley?
I can give you some reasons, but Foley being the shittiest one?

Foley is up there with Hogan, as guys whose hard work and charisma shined through way more than their actual wrestling skills.

[Juan]

Just my opinion btw :D

[Jeritron]

Foley worked far far better matches than Hogan. Even into their respective "injured years"

Compare their matches against Orton

[El Fangel]

Foley is up there with Hogan, as guys whose hard work and charisma shined through way more than their actual wrestling skills.

Touche

[FourFifty]

Foley is up there with Hogan, as guys whose hard work and charisma shined through way more than their actual wrestling skills.



Yea, but at least Foley would put people over. He might have been a whiny little bitch, but saying Foley is down there with Hogan? I'm not the biggest Foley fan, but I think he should get a LITTLE more credit than what you're giving him.

[Jeritron]

Doesn't mean he didn't have any skills. Just because he didn't grapple like Angle and come off the ropes like Mysterio didn't mean his wrestling skills were poor.

[Juan]

Foley worked far far better matches than Hogan. Even into their respective "injured years"

Compare their matches against Orton

I don't disagree with you at all.

[El Fangel]

I never said Foley couldn't wrestler, however his charisma and hard work helped him alot.

[Juan]

Yea, but at least Foley would put people over. He might have been a whiny little bitch, but saying Foley is down there with Hogan? I'm not the biggest Foley fan, but I think he should get a LITTLE more credit than what you're giving him.

I don't disagree with you either, but it was my understanding that the question posed by Destor was in regards to actual wrestling skills.

[Juan]

Foley was better than Hogan in a lot of aspects, but as far as actually wrestling skills... I dunno man.

[Jeritron]

Also, if you're judging him by most of his matches in the past 10 years then theres the problem.

He continued to work in 1999 despite serious problems with his body, because Vince wanted him to and he was saving money for his family.
His return matches were all shit for the same reason, with the exception of his programs with Edge and Orton, which were great.

Look at his stuff before that. Look at his matches from WWF 96-98. A good amount of great matches. Mostly solid work.
Same goes for his stints in ECW and WCW, where he put on a lot of good matches.
The attitude era Mankind isn't the best example to look at, even though it's the most memorable time period.

Theres more to wrestling than spots. Yes he took big bumps, but just because you don't associate him with high flying or technical expertise doesn't mean he's shitty.

His psychology is some of the best ever. Raven and Jake the Snake are two other guys who were similar, and they don't get much credit as "wrestlers" because of it. It's not a sport, it's an athletic performance, and theres more subltle criteria.

[Juan]

Also, if you're judging him by most of his matches in the past 10 years then theres the problem.

He continued to work in 1999 despite serious problems with his body, because Vince wanted him to and he was saving money for his family.
His return matches were all shit for the same reason, with the exception of his programs with Edge and Orton, which were great.

Look at his stuff before that. Look at his matches from WWF 96-98. A good amount of great matches. Mostly solid work.
Same goes for his stints in ECW and WCW, where he put on a lot of good matches.
The attitude era Mankind isn't the best example to look at, even though it's the most memorable time period.

Theres more to wrestling than spots. Yes he took big bumps, but just because you don't associate him with high flying or technical expertise doesn't mean he's shitty.

His psychology is some of the best ever. Raven and Jake the Snake are two other guys who were similar, and they don't get much credit as "wrestlers" because of it. It's not a sport, it's an athletic performance, and theres more subltle criteria.

You make some good points Jerry (as always). I might have been little harsh for deeming Foley a "shitty" wrestler, which I guess isn't really fair, but it's just that imo he's not that great. I think it takes more than ring psychology to be a great wrestler.

[Jeritron]

I just don't think you're giving "wrestling skills" a fair interpretation.

[Jeritron]

Mind Games 1996 is one of my favorite matches ever. And I'm aware it's against HBM, I don't care don't use that copout shit about him carrying a mop to a good match because it's a GREAT match and it takes two to tango. HHH is excellent and look at his matches with Steiner

Hogan has nothing on the level of Mind Games 96, or his match with Orton in 04. Or a ton of his stuff with Sting and Vader in early 90s WCW

[Jeritron]

And I'm not a blind Hogan hater. He has some good matches, to his credit, from his time.

[Johnny Vegas]

Jeritron is serving Huan

[FourFifty]

I just don't think you're giving "wrestling skills" a fair interpretation.

I think we need to talk about what "wrestling skills" are. I say they're skills that makes someone a good wrestler/superstar/entertainer/etc. Skills that allows someone to make it in the industry, in and out of the ring.

For example- I would say that Matt Hardy has better wrestling skills than Jeff Hardy because while Jeff might be better in the ring, he hasn't made the best choices outside of the ring. Also, Matt is a better talker than Jeff. So, Matt Hardy has better "wrestling skills" than Jeff.

The Giant Baba moved like a piece of crap in the ring, but he was the co-founder of AJPW. I can name 4,649 better workers than Giant Baba. However, he had the skills to make him Japan's own Hulk Hogan. Not with his ring work, but what he did outside of the ring.

Maybe this thread should be called "The shittest worker" instead of wrestler.

[Juan]

I guess I should say that Foley is a shitty wrestler, but a great worker. Not THE shittiest of the shit though.

[Jeritron]

Some people hate Foley as a performer. I'm not one of them. I can see why they do, but I think they're overlooking the big picture.

I'm actually a pretty big fan, and not because of Hell in a Cell 98 or any of his big bumps, but because he's got some amazing matches, has some of the best ring psychology of all time and IMO one of the greatest promo men ever (even though this isn't relevant to the topic at hand).

[Zen v.W.o.]

Ultimate Warrior and Andre The Giant. Although Andre could work in his earlier days. After a while it just got painful to watch.

[Jeritron]

Ultimate Warrior and Andre The Giant. Although Andre could work in his earlier days. After a while it just got painful to watch.

I'm suprised you didn't say Shawn Michaels

[FourFifty]

.......................................................people get killed for saying bad things about Andre The Giant.............................................. Just sayin'............................................

[Jeritron]

Andre and Warrior (yes, even Warrior) have some damn good matches.

Mostly Andre back in the day. Warrior belongs pretty far down the list on this criteria, but he's certainly not at the bottom.

[FourFifty]

His views on civil rights makes me want to stab him in the throat.

[thedamndest]

How many people really call Warrior a legend though?

[Xerzes]

Duggan, if he counts.

[AKin3D]

How many people really call Warrior a legend though?

I think the legend part is what everyone's missing here.

[Anybody Thrilla]

The Warrior is a legend. There, I said it.

[Nark Order]

Junkyard Dog IMO. RIP :(

[Xero]

I think the legend part is what everyone's missing here.

Anyone in the WWF over 10 years ago is automatically a legend by WWE standards.

Yes people, Savio Vega is a legend.

[Anybody Thrilla]

They use the word 'legend' in the same sene they use the word 'superstar'.

[thedamndest]

Legendtainment.

[Xero]

Legentainer.

[Nark Order]

Didn't Doink show up one time on Smackdown to wrestle Benoit and they put the legend graphic next to his name?

[thedamndest]

They throw that graphic up for anyone though. Pretty sure Skinner gets that graphic. SKINNER.

[Fox]

I guess I should say that Foley is a shitty wrestler, but a great worker. Not THE shittiest of the shit though.

:nono:

May I ask when you started watching wrestling, sir?

[Fox]

On topic,

Mil Mascaras.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Doink IS a legend, you fools. One of the greatest characters ever in his initial run. I'd love to forget him as a face, but heel Doink and conspiracy theory Chris Jericho are my two favorite characters to ever set foot in a ring.

[Jeritron]

Doink is clearly legendary

[NeanderCarl]

Hogan wasn't the horrible wrestler he's made out to be. He was fed a constant barrage of shitty "monster" opponents (kind of like The Undertaker would be in the mid 90s). So, he had terrible matches with King Kong Bundy, Andre the Giant, Ultimate Warrior, Zeus, Akeem.... anybody would have. His matches against the likes of Orndorff, Savage and later Ric Flair show a different side of Hogan... a Hogan who could actually wrestle. (Watch his Japan matches against Muta or 1994 WCW matches against Flair as an example).

As for Foley, he was the guy who actually gave Undertaker his first good feud. 'Taker, much like Hogan before him, had picked up a reputation as a shitty wrestler through a series of interminable matches against monster bad guys. If you'd asked anybody in 1992-1995 who the worst in-ring wrestler in the business was, you may be surprised how many would have said Undertaker. Foley brought out a new side of Taker, and set him on the path to where he is today... a big guy who actually has good matches. Foley also MADE Triple H's reputation (I don't care what anyone says, Triple H was NOT effectively getting over in the main event scene until the run with Cactus Jack).

Hogan and Foley, both guys who unfairly picked up 'bad wrestler' labels for their entire careers, but who only really deserved them right at the end.

[Blue Demon]

^^ :yes:

[Lock Jaw]

Second page and no Sid joke yet? TPWW is slipping.

[El Fangel]

Sid is there by default, we just thought we wouldnt shit on him anymore.

[Juan]

:nono:

May I ask when you started watching wrestling, sir?

Regularly? 1990.

[Fox]

Then I'm confused. You saw his feuds with Sting, Vader, Terry Funk, Undertaker, The Rock, Stone Cold, Triple H, and Randy Orton, and you still consider him a "shitty wrestler"? His match with HBK at Mind Games speaks legions against that sentiment. A fah on you, sir.

[thedamndest]

He said he was a great worker, not a great wrestler. What is there to be confused about? Anyone can be carried to a decent match if you are against HBK. Against Funk Foley was in his element, the hardcore style. Taker, The Rock, Stone Cold, Triple H? All of his best matches against them were gimmick matches. Hell, Foley's finisher is a gimmick. Which is not to say Foley isn't a tremendous worker and a master of psychology, but he is nowhere near a wrestler's wrestler.

[Loose Cannon]

Luger or Hogan..... Hmmmmm....

I'm gonna say Luger. Lex was the headline for WWE and WCW. He had the world, and pissed it away. It's not like he was a midcarder, or an upper main eventer and pissed it away. It's not like he was a flash in the pan, and then pissed it away. He had it all, and now has nothing.

how did Luger piss everything away? please explain? I didn't know he was booking all those times

[Loose Cannon]

Hogan wasn't the horrible wrestler he's made out to be. He was fed a constant barrage of shitty "monster" opponents (kind of like The Undertaker would be in the mid 90s). So, he had terrible matches with King Kong Bundy, Andre the Giant, Ultimate Warrior, Zeus, Akeem.... anybody would have. His matches against the likes of Orndorff, Savage and later Ric Flair show a different side of Hogan... a Hogan who could actually wrestle. (Watch his Japan matches against Muta or 1994 WCW matches against Flair as an example).

As for Foley, he was the guy who actually gave Undertaker his first good feud. 'Taker, much like Hogan before him, had picked up a reputation as a shitty wrestler through a series of interminable matches against monster bad guys. If you'd asked anybody in 1992-1995 who the worst in-ring wrestler in the business was, you may be surprised how many would have said Undertaker. Foley brought out a new side of Taker, and set him on the path to where he is today... a big guy who actually has good matches. Foley also MADE Triple H's reputation (I don't care what anyone says, Triple H was NOT effectively getting over in the main event scene until the run with Cactus Jack).

Hogan and Foley, both guys who unfairly picked up 'bad wrestler' labels for their entire careers, but who only really deserved them right at the end.

:y::y::y::y::y::y::y::y::y:

was gonna rant, but you did it for me

[NeanderCarl]

Luger's attitude cost him badly throughout his career.

This was the guy who was set to win the WWF World title at WrestleMania X until he bragged about it to everyone, including fans, and they gave the nod to Bret instead. That was the 'inside scoop' anyway.

[thedamndest]

By next year he was an Allied Power. Was that match even announced on the card prior?

[Loose Cannon]

yea, I don't know if I believe that one anymore because I haven't really heard the story told by a wrestler in all these shoots and what not out there today. might be true, but I am leaning towards no.

It's the whole Summerslam 93 thing (which was before Mania) and his Crockett run that I will argue the most though about it not being his fault

[Loose Cannon]

By next year he was an Allied Power. Was that match even announced on the card prior?

and within the next two years he was main eventing and a World Champion again :)

and the most over babyface during the high point nWo era besides Sting.

[NeanderCarl]

Bad booking did kill his momentum but even if he had won the title at SummerSlam '93, Bret Hart was still the most beloved babyface in the WWF at the time... Luger would have been out of his depth.

[Loose Cannon]

I agree with that. Plus Bret Hart being the greatest human ever and all helps :love:

[Gertner]

Mil Mascaras.

[Destor]

From what decades did you see him wrestle?

I've seen his stuff from the 60's and it's damn good. Great psycology, and he mves faster than some of the guys in wwe right now.I was watching him and Bruser Brody from probably the mid '60s. It COULD have been the '70's, but pretty sure it was the 60's, when I made this thread. It's not like thats the only match of his I've seen mind you, but good lord that one took the cake. He makes late Andre look moble. Dunno dude.

[Vastardikai]

Mascares definitely.

He only got to where he was because El Santo wasn't available for a movie and they needed a last second replacement.

[Vastardikai]

Hogan wasn't the horrible wrestler he's made out to be. He was fed a constant barrage of shitty "monster" opponents (kind of like The Undertaker would be in the mid 90s). So, he had terrible matches with King Kong Bundy, Andre the Giant, Ultimate Warrior, Zeus, Akeem.... anybody would have. His matches against the likes of Orndorff, Savage and later Ric Flair show a different side of Hogan... a Hogan who could actually wrestle. (Watch his Japan matches against Muta or 1994 WCW matches against Flair as an example).

Hell, he had a good match in Japan against Stan Hansen. I saw it this year on the Youtube while on a Hansen kick. When I got done watching it, I was instantly pissed off. Why? because Hogan was ripping off American fans for DECADES doing the flex and strut routine when he could legitimately work.

BTW, the Youtube also features Hansen slamming Andre the Giant, with ease.

[CYCLOPTERSAURUS]

If we're talking about how they wrestled in the ring versus their contribution to the industry, I would say Baba withoug question. I used to think Hogan was bad, but when I first saw Baba I was blown away - one of the worst wrestlers I had ever seen, if not the very worst.

And what a freakish look too - I thought he was CGI when I first saw him.

[Gertner]

Stan Hansen was the fucking man. Him and Brody were nuts.

[GD]

Former ECW World Champion and WWF Heavyweight Champion Vince McMahon!

[Gerard]

Hell, he had a good match in Japan against Stan Hansen. I saw it this year on the Youtube while on a Hansen kick. When I got done watching it, I was instantly pissed off. Why? because Hogan was ripping off American fans for DECADES doing the flex and strut routine when he could legitimately work.

BTW, the Youtube also features Hansen slamming Andre the Giant, with ease.

Meh, the style in japan was very different because they expected different, american fans (at the time) really just expected the big powerhouse guys and thats what they got.

[NeanderCarl]

Not American fans... North Eastern fans. Of course, it then spread with the expansion but all Hogan was doing was very wisely catering to the expectations of his audience.