HBK sold out! (Raw spoilage)

[D Mac]

So where are they going with this HBK/JBL angle?

On a side note, HBK was fucking hilarious in that DX Toy Elimination Chamber skit.

[Juan]

I don't know where they're going with it, but I hope it leads to something good because I'm really starting to get tired of emo-HBK.

[Tb1]

I'm diggin this angle. I mean actually interested, and I haven't cared about HBM since the Y2J feud.

[Impeccable]

I'm diggin this angle. I mean actually interested, and I haven't cared about HBM since the Y2J feud.

Agreed

Although it will lead to DX comeback #723

[Tb1]

I hate those comedy adds every week. I get what they're trying to do, but it completely cheapens DX.

Actually fuck that I don't get it at all

[Ben Rodrigues]

What kind of elimination chamber has over 85 wrestlers in it?

[#BROKEN Hasney]

One that is entertaining to a 5 year old who gets too many gifts

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't really get this JBL/HBK. Why is JBL offering HBK a job. If they bring up HBK proving he had business skills as WWE Commissioner a while back, I will praise it as genius, but right now, I cannot understand why JBL would "give HBK a second life."

There is probably more to the angle -- like JBL just wants HBK out of the way because he is a threat to him, but I don't know. Why go from hitting someone with a steel chair to expecting them to take a job. We'll see where it goes, I guess.

[The Franchise]

Heart break Layfield

[Tb1]

I don't really get this JBL/HBK. Why is JBL offering HBK a job. If they bring up HBK proving he had business skills as WWE Commissioner a while back, I will praise it as genius, but right now, I cannot understand why JBL would "give HBK a second life."

There is probably more to the angle -- like JBL just wants HBK out of the way because he is a threat to him, but I don't know. Why go from hitting someone with a steel chair to expecting them to take a job. We'll see where it goes, I guess.

I love after the thorough explanation by JBL, fans were still yelling for HBM to kick JBL. What'd JBL make it out to be? Either work for him and have college money for your children, or risk that money by wrestling when one mistake could end his career. Stupid fans.

As far as it making sense goes, kinda. I can see the JBL character wanting to have control over Shawn, because he's a threat and in the way of him getting to the belt. Hopefully they've got a long term plan for this, but so far it's good :y:

[parkmania]

"Shawn, you're my bitch. Now, go out there and get killed by Snitsky, Mark Henry, and Big Show in a 3-on-1 handicap match."

"Oh, By the way, I expect my laundry picked up from the dry cleaners before the end of the show."

.
.
.


ad naseum, until HBM has a Popeye moment and says, "I've had all I can stands, and I can't stands no more."

[Kane Knight]

I love after the thorough explanation by JBL, fans were still yelling for HBM to kick JBL. What'd JBL make it out to be? Either work for him and have college money for your children, or risk that money by wrestling when one mistake could end his career. Stupid fans.

But JBL's the "bad guy" and Michaels is the "good guy." HBK can't choose sides with the bad guy, no matter how reasonable it might sound.

Anyway, I actually think the highlights of Raw for me were Jericho's speech at the beginning and the JBL/HBK promo. The first practically gave me chills, and the second was a freaking great promo. And Michaels added to it without even saying a word.

Also, I love the DX Christmas promos. Partially because it reminds me of those vintage TV commercials where the stars of the show would step out of it and promote their sponsors. Only, you know, twisted.

[parkmania]

At least WWE was smart (or dumb-lucky) enough to put that promo spot BEFORE HBM's meeting with JBL. We'll see if Shawn's still his fun-loving persona in future sponsor spots - if they even let him keep doing them.

[erickman]

What kind of elimination chamber has over 85 wrestlers in it?

i thought vince hated wcw ideas now the wwe has a toy about an old bischoff wcw match.

[parkmania]

i thought vince hated wcw ideas now the wwe has a toy about an old bischoff wcw match.

Um, this was "bischoff's idea" when he was general manager of Raw, so therefore, it's a WWE creation.

[Heyman]

Few things:

-I hate the DX promos....as it just further reminds me of how lame face DX is. If DX were heels at current, they would be just as cool as they were in 1997 in my opinion. HBK's antics with Hogan in 2005, combined with how Triple H acted towards Austin in 2004 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuNAYdcgRcc) convinces me that these guys can STILL "bring it" if they really wanted to.

[Theo Dious]

Few things:

-I hate the DX promos....as it just further reminds me of how lame face DX is. If DX were heels at current, they would be just as cool as they were in 1997 in my opinion. HBK's antics with Hogan in 2005, combined with how Triple H acted towards Austin in 2004 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuNAYdcgRcc) convinces me that these guys can STILL "bring it" if they really wanted to.

Yeah, great idea, take a gimmick that will get cheered no matter what they do and make them heels. Yeah, that won't sabatoge anything they try to do at all.

[Heyman]

Yeah, great idea, take a gimmick that will get cheered no matter what they do and make them heels. Yeah, that won't sabatoge anything they try to do at all.

I never said to turn them back into heels you fucking Hindu.

All I said was that they were cooler as heels.....and if they actually *were* heels at current, they would be a lot cooler (as opposed to being 'lame' like they are now....and having only kids below the age of 12 laugh at their antics).

[Mr. Nerfect]

I love Heyman calling people Hindu. See, he's a proud member of the Hindu World Order, so he can get away with it.

I also hate face DX. It is lame how overproduced their skits are, even if Triple H and Shawn Michaels can both occasionally deliver. They're the cool kids at school acting like idiots thinking that it's funny, and it's not. Shawn Michaels dancing around like an idiot whenever they come out also pisses me off to no end.

[DaVe]

Eh, I thought their skit wasn't bad, either.

And Heyman, you are freaking bizarre.

[Heyman]

I love Heyman calling people Hindu. See, he's a proud member of the Hindu World Order, so he can get away with it.

I also hate face DX. It is lame how overproduced their skits are, even if Triple H and Shawn Michaels can both occasionally deliver. They're the cool kids at school acting like idiots thinking that it's funny, and it's not. Shawn Michaels dancing around like an idiot whenever they come out also pisses me off to no end.

I pretty much agree. However - just as seems to be the case with Cena, the WWE seem to be targetting DX to children that are aged 12 and under.

If that truly IS the case, then both Cena and DX are being "positioned" perfectly.

[Heyman]

Eh, I thought their skit wasn't bad, either.

And Heyman, you are freaking bizarre.

That's Hunter Heyman Hindu to you, you faggot nigger.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Is it wise to be marketing DX to younger children? Do they have the disposal income, especially during this financial shit to keep the WWE afloat?

[Heyman]

Is it wise to be marketing DX to younger children? Do they have the disposal income, especially during this financial shit to keep the WWE afloat?

Well....I'm assuming that kids aged 12 and under would have their parents for their "disposable income." ;)

Regardless however - it seems to me that the WWE are trying to target the kids with Cena and DX. I don't really get that 'vibe' from Batista however.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Well....I'm assuming that kids aged 12 and under would have their parents for their "disposable income." ;)

Regardless however - it seems to me that the WWE are trying to target the kids with Cena and DX. I don't really get that 'vibe' from Batista however.

Of course that's where the kids would get it from. Would parents give that money to their kids in this time. Christmas suddenly becomes about one or two big presents without the little ones to add up. "Can I order this PPV?" becomes "No fucking way, you little shit, I'm going to order something on Cinemax because your mother left me because I had to trade in the Lexus."

I guess the older demographic might logically cut wrestling out of their lifestyle because it's one of the first things that could be released and wished the best in its future endeavours, but maybe putting on a compelling product that adults like, so they feel like they can't miss it (aka, the Attitude era), then things might run smoother.

Batista does feel pandered towards children, to me. He's become a generic Superman, and I've seen lots of kids walking around wearing his shirt. He seems less directly marketed towards them, mind you, but I don't think they're avoiding "The Animal" plush toys.

[Gerard]

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gerald.marley/random/rko.gif boink

[Jordan]

haahaha

hbm haha

[Kane Knight]

Is it wise to be marketing DX to younger children? Do they have the disposal income, especially during this financial shit to keep the WWE afloat?

As the economy flounders, the kids' dollar becomes more and more important.

[Mr. Nerfect]

As the economy flounders, the kids' dollar becomes more and more important.

But the kids don't own the dollar. They get their money from parents, and while kids may not care nor be aware of the economic crisis, you can bet their parents are. I can see why pandering to kids would be important, but it's still like Dixie Carter's response to fans chanting "Fire Russo!" in disgust at the stuff they were seeing: "Russo didn't write it." The WWE aren't even marketing to kids effectively. They're dressing up an adult product in overalls, a little propeller hat and giving it a lollipop to lick. The kids' dollar can be important all it wants, but the WWE has to actually earn it.

[Kane Knight]

Of course that's where they get it from.

Though I'm curious as to why you assert they're not marketing it effectively. It seems that the one group they've massively hit it off with over the last couple of years. I mean, you can even argue that it's a bad idea to market to kids when the more desirable group is males in their late teens and twenties, but how can you effectively argue that they're not marketing to kids effectively? Even if they're "dressing up an adult product," it's been radically effective. Toy sales, merch like Mysterio masks, expanded kids' markets are all paying off. Even when the rest of the business isn't.

Adults are more permissive and have been effectively enabling their children, even in weakened economic circumstances.

[BigDaddyCool]

But the kids don't own the dollar. They get their money from parents, and while kids may not care nor be aware of the economic crisis, you can bet their parents are. I can see why pandering to kids would be important, but it's still like Dixie Carter's response to fans chanting "Fire Russo!" in disgust at the stuff they were seeing: "Russo didn't write it." The WWE aren't even marketing to kids effectively. They're dressing up an adult product in overalls, a little propeller hat and giving it a lollipop to lick. The kids' dollar can be important all it wants, but the WWE has to actually earn it.

Um, what does a stand up comic know about marketing or business?

[Kane Knight]

I'm gonna take a different approach. Noid, succinctly as possible, sum up how you would market to children more effectively than WWE.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Of course that's where they get it from.

Though I'm curious as to why you assert they're not marketing it effectively. It seems that the one group they've massively hit it off with over the last couple of years. I mean, you can even argue that it's a bad idea to market to kids when the more desirable group is males in their late teens and twenties, but how can you effectively argue that they're not marketing to kids effectively? Even if they're "dressing up an adult product," it's been radically effective. Toy sales, merch like Mysterio masks, expanded kids' markets are all paying off. Even when the rest of the business isn't.

Adults are more permissive and have been effectively enabling their children, even in weakened economic circumstances.

I don't see how you could say that they have. It's been half-hearted at the very best. I'm not saying Rey Mysterio masks do not sell. They would sell to kids during an era marketed to teens and adults, too.

If you want to know how I would market the product more suitably to kids? I'd get rid of the Diva shit. It embarrasses kids, because they either think girls are disgusting, are embarrassed by the concept of sex, or they're just not interested. God knows my nephew just fast-forwards through those segments and sighs when they are wasting his violence time.

Women would probably be better used in a more constructive way. The WWE are taking steps towards doing this, I'll give them that, but last time I checked the ladies in the WWE were meant to be cheered the more slutty they act.

I'd get rid of more cerebral characters like Chris Jericho, who appeals to an older demographic. His promos have been the best in the WWE, and his ring work has been tremendous, but kids would likely be bored by bad guys who think like that. Edge is OK, because you don't need to think about why you dislike him. He's a jock asshole who is also romantic and cheats all the time. A slightly more obvious bad guy than Chris Jericho. Kids love Shawn Michaels, but I imagine a lot of them would have been bored shitless by the Jericho vs. Michaels feud.

I'd have Jericho go back to his fun-loving old self. Then at least Jericho might move some t-shirts, hey?

And, BDC, stand-up comedy isn't my day job. I've got business qualifications (nothing huge) and experience. A lot of my friends are in business, and it's always been something easy to get, although nothing I've ever had more than a fleeting interest in. Got out of there when I realised it was nowhere near what I wanted to do during these years of my life. Thanks for showing an interest in my life, though.

If you were asking what a stand-up comic in general knows about business or marketing? I imagine some of them would know quite a lot. Most of the comedians I know have an interest in things like that. You get comics that come from all different places. In a single show, I've worked with an IT guy, a taxi driver, a marketing officer, an aspiring filmmaker, a tradie, a nurse and an author. It's not your usual group of people. Stand-up comedy comes from experience, so a lot of more seasoned comedians draw from their past employment in things like business, or at least understand that business is something relatable to a lot of people, so they'll have a sound knowledge of it. If you study comedy at an institution, a lot of places around here teach you some marketing and financial stuff to help you map your career out and market yourself to give yourself the best image for your style possible.

Granted, that's only basic stuff, but what you asked about a stand-up comedian knowing about business is quite similar to me asking you what a redneck knows about accounting. You may not associate one with the other, but it really doesn't mean shit.

Marketing is something I've actually thought about re-visiting, but have decided against, because the courses over here for marketing a really quite give and take. You choose marketing as a major of a business degree that contains all these other compotents of stuff you may not be interested in, and may not ever use again. There are other options, but they involve starting in the business, and working your way up the ladder whilst doing extracurricular study in the field, which is OK, but not something I have the time to do.

[Mr. Nerfect]

And, yes, I think it would be much better if the WWE didn't market towards children in the first place.

[BigDaddyCool]

I don't see how you could say that they have. It's been half-hearted at the very best. I'm not saying Rey Mysterio masks do not sell. They would sell to kids during an era marketed to teens and adults, too.

If you want to know how I would market the product more suitably to kids? I'd get rid of the Diva shit. It embarrasses kids, because they either think girls are disgusting, are embarrassed by the concept of sex, or they're just not interested. God knows my nephew just fast-forwards through those segments and sighs when they are wasting his violence time.

Women would probably be better used in a more constructive way. The WWE are taking steps towards doing this, I'll give them that, but last time I checked the ladies in the WWE were meant to be cheered the more slutty they act.

I'd get rid of more cerebral characters like Chris Jericho, who appeals to an older demographic. His promos have been the best in the WWE, and his ring work has been tremendous, but kids would likely be bored by bad guys who think like that. Edge is OK, because you don't need to think about why you dislike him. He's a jock asshole who is also romantic and cheats all the time. A slightly more obvious bad guy than Chris Jericho. Kids love Shawn Michaels, but I imagine a lot of them would have been bored shitless by the Jericho vs. Michaels feud.

I'd have Jericho go back to his fun-loving old self. Then at least Jericho might move some t-shirts, hey?

And, BDC, stand-up comedy isn't my day job. I've got business qualifications (nothing huge) and experience. A lot of my friends are in business, and it's always been something easy to get, although nothing I've ever had more than a fleeting interest in. Got out of there when I realised it was nowhere near what I wanted to do during these years of my life. Thanks for showing an interest in my life, though.

If you were asking what a stand-up comic in general knows about business or marketing? I imagine some of them would know quite a lot. Most of the comedians I know have an interest in things like that. You get comics that come from all different places. In a single show, I've worked with an IT guy, a taxi driver, a marketing officer, an aspiring filmmaker, a tradie, a nurse and an author. It's not your usual group of people. Stand-up comedy comes from experience, so a lot of more seasoned comedians draw from their past employment in things like business, or at least understand that business is something relatable to a lot of people, so they'll have a sound knowledge of it. If you study comedy at an institution, a lot of places around here teach you some marketing and financial stuff to help you map your career out and market yourself to give yourself the best image for your style possible.

Granted, that's only basic stuff, but what you asked about a stand-up comedian knowing about business is quite similar to me asking you what a redneck knows about accounting. You may not associate one with the other, but it really doesn't mean shit.

Marketing is something I've actually thought about re-visiting, but have decided against, because the courses over here for marketing a really quite give and take. You choose marketing as a major of a business degree that contains all these other compotents of stuff you may not be interested in, and may not ever use again. There are other options, but they involve starting in the business, and working your way up the ladder whilst doing extracurricular study in the field, which is OK, but not something I have the time to do.

Shut up noid. You know nothing.

[Kane Knight]

They sell well in any era. They're selling exceptionally well in this era. Remember, Cena and Mysterio merch is selling so well it's making up for loss of ad revenue, lower ticket sales, and reduced PPV buyrates. That flat-out indicates a large growth in the market over the last few years. If you don't see how someone could argue with you on their success with children, then I can only determine you don't know the facts.

And Jericho? He serves his current purpose well. He opposes Cena and Bats and the other "good guys." The kids don't need to understand his "cerebral" approach to appreciate that he's the bad guy, they read his demeanor (though they would not call it that) and see his opposition to Cena.Bats and boo him and cheer for the face to kick his ass.

Jericho isn't going to move much merch as a face, but he will certainly help the others sell a lot of merchandise as long as he is making the good guys look good. This is very different when compared to DX or Cena, where a heel turn would greatly affect the merchandise they already move.

This doesn't necessarily make McMahon a promotional genius; I'd wager he stumbled into it. However, it does mean that the promotion and marketing are working. More merch being purchased with fewer viewers and overall fans? It would seem that "putting a beanie hat" on an adult product is pretty effective, even if you don't like it.

[Kane Knight]

Granted, that's only basic stuff, but what you asked about a stand-up comedian knowing about business is quite similar to me asking you what a redneck knows about accounting. You may not associate one with the other, but it really doesn't mean shit.

What you did to that metaphor probably violates the Geneva Convention.

[BigDaddyCool]

me asking you what a redneck knows about accounting

That one statement proves you completely missed the point. You have claimed to be a stand up comic. So asking you what a stand up comic knows about marketing, is a valid question.

I on the other hand, have never claimed to be a redneck, but I am in fact an accounant. So by you claiming I am something I never claimed to be and something I am not, then asking what the fasle statement would know about what I really do is complete crap. I know quiet a lot about being an accountant because I am one.

Back to point, I think WWE know a little more about how to market to kids that you do. Every big toy store or walmart or target I have been to lately has a larger percentage of WWE toys to any other brand of toys including transformers, nerf guns, G.I. Joe, Marvel action figure, and Star Wars. If WWE toys didn't sell, stores like Walmart and Target wouldn't give them shelf space.

Also, if you take a look at WWE finaical statements, merch sales are up. Particularly t-shirt sales and toys. So why don't you shut up with your armchair business plan.

[Heyman]

Also, if you take a look at WWE finaical statements, merch sales are up.



Here's one question that I DO have.

Just because someone (or a group of people) turn heel, will this automatically mean that merchandise sales will go down (or be almost non-existent).

For example - when Hulk Hogan joined the New World Order back in 1996, nWo shirts started selling like crazy.

That's why I wonder - if someone like Cena were to do something 'shocking' within a year or so (and perhaps form a new group or whatever), would merchandise sales necessarily be affected?

[Kane Knight]

That one statement proves you completely missed the point. You have claimed to be a stand up comic. So asking you what a stand up comic knows about marketing, is a valid question.

I on the other hand, have never claimed to be a redneck, but I am in fact an accounant. So by you claiming I am something I never claimed to be and something I am not, then asking what the fasle statement would know about what I really do is complete crap. I know quiet a lot about being an accountant because I am one.

Back to point, I think WWE know a little more about how to market to kids that you do. Every big toy store or walmart or target I have been to lately has a larger percentage of WWE toys to any other brand of toys including transformers, nerf guns, G.I. Joe, Marvel action figure, and Star Wars. If WWE toys didn't sell, stores like Walmart and Target wouldn't give them shelf space.

Also, if you take a look at WWE finaical statements, merch sales are up. Particularly t-shirt sales and toys. So why don't you shut up with your armchair business plan.

Way to steal my line, jerk!

[James Steele]

K4L!!!

[Mr. Nerfect]

What you did to that metaphor probably violates the Geneva Convention.

You re-using that tired old joke would drive the Geneva Convention to Zoloft.

That one statement proves you completely missed the point. You have claimed to be a stand up comic. So asking you what a stand up comic knows about marketing, is a valid question.

I on the other hand, have never claimed to be a redneck, but I am in fact an accounant. So by you claiming I am something I never claimed to be and something I am not, then asking what the fasle statement would know about what I really do is complete crap. I know quiet a lot about being an accountant because I am one.

No, it proves that you missed my point. You're hanging way too much on the "claiming" part. I told you what a stand-up comedian could know about marketing. I even specifically pointed out an instance where I worked with a guy who has a degree in marketing.

Back to point, I think WWE know a little more about how to market to kids that you do. Every big toy store or walmart or target I have been to lately has a larger percentage of WWE toys to any other brand of toys including transformers, nerf guns, G.I. Joe, Marvel action figure, and Star Wars. If WWE toys didn't sell, stores like Walmart and Target wouldn't give them shelf space.

Also, if you take a look at WWE finaical statements, merch sales are up. Particularly t-shirt sales and toys. So why don't you shut up with your armchair business plan.

Of course the WWE know how to market to kids better than I do. They also know how to put on a better wrestling product than you do. Therefore everytime you see something you don't think is wise on WWE TV (for example, how Chris Jericho won the World Heavyweight Title), you need to shut the fuck up? If that's your belief, do so, it'd actually be fantastic. Last time I checked it was alright to discuss things such as this, though.

As much as I am sick of saying this phrase, your points here are completely made of straw. You suck, BDC, you just do. I never said the WWE doesn't appeal to kids at all, or that they aren't even doing better at it than they were last time financial reports were released. I just questioned if they are doing it as well as they should be, considering how down ratings, PPV buys and stock is.

I also didn't suggest I could market to kids better. I suggested ways they could possible do it. In fact, I made a point to say that they shouldn't market to kids. At risk of sounding redundnat -- you suck, BDC, you just do.

[Heyman]

Just curious - where did this BDC/Kane Knight hatred of Noid come from? I don't post here much and so I am not aware of the social dynamics.

Did Kane Knight join the clique?

Is Noid an enemy of the clique?

WHAT IS GOING ON.

[Londoner]

Just curious - where did this BDC/Kane Knight hatred of Noid come from? I don't post here much and so I am not aware of the social dynamics.

Did Kane Knight join the clique?

Is Noid an enemy of the clique?

WHAT IS GOING ON.

Noid is just an easy target cause of his(sometimes) ridiculously long posts.(not that i have anything against noid, btw)

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Here's one question that I DO have.

Just because someone (or a group of people) turn heel, will this automatically mean that merchandise sales will go down (or be almost non-existent).

For example - when Hulk Hogan joined the New World Order back in 1996, nWo shirts started selling like crazy.

That's why I wonder - if someone like Cena were to do something 'shocking' within a year or so (and perhaps form a new group or whatever), would merchandise sales necessarily be affected?

That demographic isn't buying shirts anymore, as wrestling is, once again, seen as non-mainstream. It's the kids that are buying this shit.

[Kane Knight]

Uh...Noid...BDC isn't targeting you because you don't agree with something you saw on TV. He is targeting you because you're objectively wrong.

[Cuzziebro]

I know this may be a very 'lame' idea, but how about a specific show, for example ECW, and making it an adults only type show (a.k.a attitude era type of stuff). I know its a long shot due to the substance of wrestlers during that era (Austin, Rock etc) but I'm sure Vince could work something out. You may not get higher merch sales, but you may attract an older demographic (even fans that stopped watching once the Attitude era was 'over'). This could then impact the younger demographic due to the parents enjoying watching wrestling again and thus increase sales in a number of ways (merch, tickets, PPVs etc).
Just a random idea I thought I would throw out there.