Better Wrestler #50

[Jeritron]

Kurt Angle rocked The Rock and sham-rocked Shamrock.
His next opponent knows how to take it higher though.
The first return opponent, who made his first appearance 50 matches ago, is ready to return to action.


http://z.about.com/d/prowrestling/1/0/B/B/-/-/kurt6.jpg
Kurt Angle



VS.


http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o180/ok_killer_go/RVD_2Belts_2.jpg
Rob Van Dam


3 days.

<SELECT><OPTION selected>Better Wrestler History<OPTION>RVD vs CM Punk (34-19)</OPTION><OPTION>RVD vs Santino Marella (36-4)</OPTION><OPTION>RVD vs Mr. Perfect (15-23)</OPTION><OPTION>Mr. Perfect vs Tully Blanchard (30-5)</OPTION><OPTION>Mr. Perfect vs Chris Jericho (15-23)</OPTION><OPTION>Chris Jericho vs Brock Lesnar (34-10)</OPTION><OPTION>Chris Jericho vs William Regal (38-14)</OPTION><OPTION>Chris Jericho vs Eddie Guerrero (21-23)</OPTION><OPTION>Eddie Guerrero vs Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat (26-7)</OPTION><OPTION>Eddie Geurrero vs "Macho Man" Randy Savage (26-19)</OPTION><OPTION>Eddie Guerrero vs Diamond Dallas Page (39-8)</OPTION><OPTION>Eddie Guerrero vs "Stone Cold" Steve Austin(19-28)</OPTION><OPTION>"Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs Chris Benoit (32-13)</OPTION><OPTION>"Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs Jake "The Snake" Roberts (29-10)</OPTION><OPTION>"Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs Sting (36-16)</OPTION><OPTION>"Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs Bret "The Hitman" Hart (32-31)</OPTION><OPTION>Hulk Hogan vs John Cena (15-24)<OPTION>John Cena vs Lex Luger (32-6-2)<OPTION>John Cena vs Ultimate Warrior (29-18)</OPTION><OPTION>John Cena vs Dean Malenko (9-40)</OPTION><OPTION>Dean Malenko vs Billy Kidman (31-7)</OPTION><OPTION>Dean Malenko vs Ultimo Dragon (22-15)</OPTION><OPTION>Dean Malenko vs Taz (15-17)</OPTION><OPTION>Taz vs Sabu (38-2)</OPTION><OPTION>Taz vs Jeff Hardy (25-16)</OPTION><OPTION>Taz vs Bam Bam Bigelow (26-12)</OPTION><OPTION>Taz vs Triple H (24-22)</OPTION>><OPTION>Edge vs Christian Cage (22-23)<OPTION>Christian Cage vs Raven (23-22)</OPTION><OPTION>Christian vs Matt Hardy (22-19)</OPTION><OPTION>Christian vs Ted Dibiase (24-25)</OPTION><OPTION>Ted Dibiase vs "Rowdy" Roddy Piper (16-19)</OPTION><OPTION>"Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs "The British Bulldog" Davey Boy Smith (25-19)</OPTION><OPTION>"Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs Bob Backlund (26-6)</OPTION><OPTION>"Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs The Dynamite Kid (26-13)</OPTION><OPTION>"Rowdy Roddy Piper vs Ric Flair (16-19)</OPTION><OPTION>Ric Flair vs Bret "The Hitman" Hart (19-17)</OPTION><OPTION>Ric Flair vs Andre "The Giant" (28-5)</OPTION><OPTION>Ric Flair vs Triple H (26-11)</OPTION><OPTION>Ric Flair vs Shawn Michaels (20-26)</OPTION><OPTION>Shawn Michaels vs Jushin "Thunder" Lyger (26-15)</OPTION><OPTION>Shawn Michaels vs Perry Saturn (36-12)<OPTION>Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker (29-11)</OPTION><OPTION>Shawn Michaels vs The Rock (28-30)</OPTION><OPTION>The Rock vs Trish Stratus (21-16)</OPTION><OPTION>The Rock vs Lance Storm (22-19)</OPTION><OPTION>The Rock vs Owen Hart (18-12)</OPTION><OPTION>The Rock vs Kurt Angle (5-24)</OPTION><OPTION>Kurt Angle vs Ken Shamrock (36-5)</OPTION></SELECT>

<SELECT><OPTION selected>Better Wrestler Hall of Fame</OPTION><OPTION>"Stone Cold" Steve Austin</OPTION><OPTION>Taz</OPTION></SELECT>

[thedamndest]

OH SNAP! REPEATS!

[Jeritron]

Returns. The matches aren't, and likely won't, be repeated.

[Jeritron]

Plus, just because wrestlers will become re-eligible doesn't mean they will be used right away. I'm just promoting the rule now that it's finally relevant.

[thedamndest]

Yeah, well your Kurt Angle link is forbidden.

[Jeritron]

Well, then I'll have to make due with this new one.

[Nark Order]

Come on now. Is this even a fair comparison? Angle by miles.

[thedamndest]

I'm voting for Angle because he is playing Guitar Hero as challengingly as possible in that manner.

[thedamndest]

Guitar upside down, whammy up, not facing the tv, AND WITH A BROKIN' FREAKIN' NECK!

[Jeritron]

On pause. In fact, it looks like he's going to restart. Only pussies restart before failing.

[KYR]

Kurt Angle rocked The Rock and sham-rocked Shamrock.


And now he's gonna "Rob" Van Dam.

Not even close. Angle wins this even with a FREAKIN' BROKEN NECK.

[Jeritron]

He's also chosen to wear a suit without a shirt

[KYR]

Never realised Angle was left-handed?

Is he a left-footer as well? :shifty:

[thedamndest]

That's probably just because a tie would have been constricting around his BROKIN FREAKIN' NECK!

[Jeritron]

He can shred, even with A BROKEN FREAKIN GUITAR NECK

[Nark Order]

I'm surprised he didn't just wear the suit jacket to display his manly forest of chest hair.

[El Fangel]

Ugh. Angle.

[Blue Demon]

It was a VERY difficult decision, but I went with Angle...I found him slightly more entertaining.

[Nark Order]

How was this a difficult decision. Get it together here.

[Jeritron]

Not everyone agrees with your opinions faggot. That's why there's a poll. Now listen to Angle SHRED

[Nark Order]

Shamrock and RVD against Angle though? Angle is kind of getting a free ride ere compared to the others.

[BobBitchen]

:THUMBSUP:ROB VAN DAM:THUMBSUP:

[Jeritron]

Shamrock and RVD against Angle though? Angle is kind of getting a free ride ere compared to the others.

Not really. First of all, he faced the Rock and destroyed him. RVD isn't a slouch pick. It's not anyones fault if Angle destroys him. He's a top challenger. Angle just is way over on here. He'll face harder.
It's also the third round. Things escalate.
Go away.

[Nark Order]

Will he be going against Kung Fu Naki next?

[Juan]

The mark in me wants to vote for RVD

[St. Jimmy]

Kurt.

[thedamndest]

Angle is even holding a Guitar Hero guitar to RVD's ECW/WWE championships.

[Destor]

Will he be going against Kung Fu Naki next?
Your opinion is stupid

[Nark Order]

Well apparently I'm right because he's getting destroyed. I'm not saying I don't like the guy but putting him against Angle as competition in one of these is a bit ridiculous. Kind of giving Angle a free ride. Same with Shamrock.

[Jeritron]

What the fuck are you talking about? Angle destroyed The Rock.
How does the poll make you right either? It just means peoples opinions match yours mostly, but they're not being sour grapes about it.

[Destor]

Well apparently I'm right because he's getting destroyed. I'm not saying I don't like the guy but putting him against Angle as competition in one of these is a bit ridiculous. Kind of giving Angle a free ride. Same with Shamrock.He KILLED The Rock. Do you understand that?

Also opponents get progressively harder. Not every match is supposed to be guys I think can beat the champion. The hits gets harder. Have you not payed attention to this game until now?

Your opinion is stupid.

[Nark Order]

Thr IWC hates the Rock, why is this hard to believe that Angle killed him? Everybody is still mad bitter at him for being an actor as opposed to a wrestler. The Rock beat HBM and then went on to go against :

Trish Stratus
Lance Storm
Owen Hart

and then... Kurt Angle. Of course he beat a bunch of people before Kurt cause they weren't really competition. Angle was.

I am not even going to begin to explain how ridiculous this this rating system is. There have only been two winners so far and one of them is Taz. Jesus.

[Jeritron]

Yea the IWC hates The Rock so much that they voted him over Shawn Michaels, who beat Flair...
You're a loss. Peace

[KYR]

Hang on.

If the IWC hates The Rock, how did he beat Michaels?

[Juan]

You watch your mouth when you talk about Taz, Narc.

[KYR]

Damn. Jeritron beat me to it :mad:

[thedamndest]

You are arguing that the IWC hates the Rock, but then you are arguing about how the only competition he beat is HBK.

[thedamndest]

Looks like I was last in line.

[Jeritron]

He's an idiot. His parents are probably idiots too. It comes from upbringing

[KYR]

Don't know if I feel comfortable with theddy behind me :'(

[Jeritron]

I also think it's ridiculous to consider RVD, one of the biggest favorites and well liked wrestlers on here, easy. Even if Angle destroys him it's a testimony to Angle's popularity, rather than the incompetence of RVD as a challenger. RVD is way over. Aside from Flair, HBM, Stone Cold, Jericho and maybe The Rock, you're not going to find bigger favorites than RVD around here.
Also, Taz beat solid competition. He then went over HHH. Whether he's hated or not he's top notch. He earned his way in by taking out challengers nobody thought he would.
Shut the fuck up.

[thedamndest]

I'll bet Uncle Joey didn't make parole again.

[KYR]

I'll be honest.

There are so many RVD marks that when I first saw who Angle was up against I honestly thought this would be a close one.

[thedamndest]

Right. You can only vote for one. It wasn't an affront to Flair to put HBM over him. FLAIR.

[Nark Order]

Had he beaten HBK, then like 3 more credible people you might have a case. This rating system is pretty ridiculous though.

[Nark Order]

RVD's biggest claim to fame was getting pulled over for possession of marijuana and stripped of his belts. Pretty hilarious.

[screech]

I'm voting Van Dam because I fucking hate Kurt Angle.

I know Kurt is the better wrestler, but I can't stand him. Plus, I was always entertained by Van Dam. I was entertained by Kurt Angle most of the time.

[Jeritron]

It's a democracy you fool. It gets progressively harder and I'd say RVD is a damn solid 3rd round challenger.

In case you haven't noticed, the past 4 hall of fame clinching rounds have been so close and compettitive that the defending champion has been knocked out everytime.
Piper, Flair, HBM and The Rock all made it four rounds of escalating difficulty and then got appropriate compettition at the gates of the HOF. They didn't get in.
It's as fair as it gets.

Don't blame the game or the challengers, blame the people. It's not a dictatorship here or we'd put in our favorites. It's a structured game of popularity. RVD is fuckin popular.

[Nark Order]

When the only two that have survived are Stone Cold (legit) and Tazz (wtf), you know things have to be a bit lopsided.

[Nark Order]

Now, if these were all picked at random, it would be a little more fair. The way it is, it looks like certain wrestlers get an easier time and some get a harder time depending on who they are.

[KYR]

Taz beat both HHH and Jeff Hardy!

It just shows how many Taz marks there are - but you can't say it's lopsided.

[Jeritron]

Again, take it up with the people. Taz got the same treatment as everyone else. He upset Jeff Hardy and HHH

[KYR]

And this coming from a Rock mark.

[Destor]

Thr IWC hates the Rock, why is this hard to believe that Angle killed him? Everybody is still mad bitter at him for being an actor as opposed to a wrestler. The Rock beat HBM and then went on to go against :

Trish Stratus
Lance Storm
Owen Hart

and then... Kurt Angle. Of course he beat a bunch of people before Kurt cause they weren't really competition. Angle was.

I am not even going to begin to explain how ridiculous this this rating system is. There have only been two winners so far and one of them is Taz. Jesus.You forget that the Rock beat HBM.

[KYR]

Jeritron, we need to co-ordinate our posts better.

[thedamndest]

Now, if these were all picked at random, it would be a little more fair. The way it is, it looks like certain wrestlers get an easier time and some get a harder time depending on who they are.

How do you mean easier time? Only two guys have made it.

[Jeritron]

P.S. The rating system isn't ridiculous because there isn't one. It's a vote. Democracy man. People choose, we just structure it fairly. There is no set criteria. It is a popularity contest, with people who form their opinions on varying personal values.

[Nark Order]

So, by the response I'm getting this series should be changed to "Most Popular Wrestler".

[Destor]

How do you mean easier time? Only two guys have made it.
seriously. The only way you can someone has had an easier time is based on how much value you put into a particular guy. Which again is based on your own opinion.

The only bias is your own.

[Nark Order]

"Better" would indicate that it is a competition based on skill.

[Jeritron]

He also needs to look at the history. A lot of what you're calling cake walks or unfair matchups were actually quite close, and damn fair. If you think this is a no brainer then cast your fuckin vote and shut up. If you don't like voting, leave. It's fair and interesting to most of us. Just like the polls themselves, majority rules so the system stays. You don't have to participate.
I don't see why complaining about it is neccesary. It's not a government or a way of life. It's a series of threads.

[Destor]

"Better" would indicate that it is a competition based on skill.
Skill is in the eye of the beholder.

[Jeritron]

"Better" would indicate that it is a competition based on skill.

It's based on personal preference. I think Coke is better than Pepsi. Truth is, without some concrete criteria, there is no true answer. Therefore, we give our opinions, argue them, and the majority rules.
Again, you make no sense.

[Jeritron]

You also cited the majority vote of Angle in this poll as a reason for why you were "right." This means you consider the majority ruling to be "right." Therefore, you have already admitted that this system is perfectly sound.
Goodnight.

[Nark Order]

I'm voting Van Dam because I fucking hate Kurt Angle.

I know Kurt is the better wrestler, but I can't stand him. Plus, I was always entertained by Van Dam. I was entertained by Kurt Angle most of the time.

Then why am I seeing stuff like this?

[Destor]

You also cited the majority vote of Angle in this poll as a reason for why you were "right." This means you consider the majority ruling to be "right." Therefore, you have already admitted that this system is perfectly sound.
Goodnight.
HOLY CRAP!

PWND

[Destor]

by your own logic

pretty immense

[Destor]

Then why am I seeing stuff like this?He can vote any way he wants. I doubt the rest of TPWW will vote of the same mind.

[Lock Jaw]

Kurt Angle, no contest. Heck, I'd vote Shamrock over RVD.

[Jeritron]

That's his choice based on his reasoning. That vote is just as valid as mine. I would say yours, but you don't seem to understand basic logic. But nonetheless, yes your vote counts just as much. That's the beauty of democracy.

[Nark Order]

Naw, the match-ups aren't picked very fairly. I'd do it by random selection. Taz, LOL. Come on.

[Jeritron]

It's also the TPWW Better Wrestler compettition. It's not Narc's Better Wrestler Compettion, and it's not Destor or Jeri's Compettition. It's all of TPWW. So, whoever and however TPWW as a whole selects is the correct answer. It's infallible.

[Destor]

TPWW said he was better than some pretty serious compititon. You can have a problem with it all you like, it's fair and your wrong.

[Nark Order]

Of course you like him, Destor. He's wrestled in a bingo hall before.

[Jeritron]

lol at random selection. So you think that would be more fair than a tiered system? You'd see it as more fair for Taz to face Hornswaggle and Khali than Hardy and HHH?

Random selection would lead to more credible matches and HOF inductions? You may be legally retarded.

[thedamndest]

It was all that Dan Marino's fault, everyone knows that. If he had held the ball, laces out, like he was supposed to, Ray would never have missed that kick. Dan Marino should die of gonorrhea and rot in hell. Would you like a cookie, son?

[Destor]

Of course you like him, Destor. He's wrestled in a bingo hall before.
Never said I liked him.

[thedamndest]

You didn't deny that he has wrestled in a bingo hall! UGH!

[Nark Order]

Yeah, I'm turned off to the whole idea now that everyone has admitted that it is purely a popularity poll. Pretty flawed. I won't be voting again.

[Jeritron]

Kurt Angle, no contest. Heck, I'd vote Shamrock over RVD.

This is a fair post and a fair approach to the contest. Narc, take a look at this.

[Juan]

Narc, stop talking shit about Taz! :mad:

[thedamndest]

What ISN'T a popularity contest in the court of human opinion?

[Jeritron]

Yeah, I'm turned off to the whole idea now that everyone has admitted that it is purely a popularity poll. Pretty flawed. I won't be voting again.

That's great news. But also, it's not PURELY popularity. Ultimately it is, but there is varying levels of criteria involved. Everyone rates differently. Some vote on better wrestler in terms of skills from bell to bell. Others judge their own personal enjoyment over the years. Others judge status in the industry. And finally, some judge how good they are at their job (promos, charisma, etc.). They may also mix and match. It's more than just "my favoritez LOlz".

[Destor]

Yeah, I'm turned off to the whole idea now that everyone has admitted that it is purely a popularity poll. Pretty flawed. I won't be voting again.
ok

[Destor]

That's great news. But also, it's not PURELY popularity. Ultimately it is, but there is varying levels of criteria involved. Everyone rates differently. Some vote on better wrestler in terms of skills from bell to bell. Others judge their own personal enjoyment over the years. Others judge status in the industry. And finally, some judge how good they are at their job (promos, charisma, etc.). They may also mix and match. It's more than just "my favoritez LOlz".
Shhh. He's leaving, let him go.

[Nark Order]

Well, obviously some people think that "better" and "popular" are two different things considering you have people voting for wrestlers that they like better than than who they think is actually better. Ala screech.

[Jeritron]

What ISN'T a popularity contest in the court of human opinion?

So you're telling me that Government Leadership, Academy Award Winners, and League MVP's are just popularity contest winners? Oh god, and here I was thinking they were divine law handed down from above.
Thank you Thed.

Wake the fuck up Narc. Opinion is a popularity contest. It's about the prestige and legitimacy of how people judge things. It's in order here for what it is.

[Xero]

LOL, STFU Narc, seriously.

[Nark Order]

Uh oh, the wrestling forum regulars are ganging up on me now. I feel like Noid.

[St. Jimmy]

Xero, change your name back. I am not digging the way it is now.

[Jeritron]

lol. I'm a fuckin double threat motherfucker. I'll take care of you in casual too if you'd like

[Xero]

You're arguing over the logistics of who's better in a fake sport FFS.

[Destor]

lol. I'm a fuckin double threat motherfucker. I'll take care of you in casual too if you'd likelol

[Jeritron]

Let's take this to movies/tv

[Xero]

Xero, change your name back. I am not digging the way it is now.

Absolutely not. Xero Limit 126 is a jobber name. Xero Limit it midcard, at best. Xero is up there with "Batista".

Only place I can possibly go from here is "The Xero", which is the top rung (The Rock). I don't think I've made it that far yet.

[Destor]

You're arguing over the logistics of who's better in a fake sport FFS.
lol

[Nark Order]

Everybody got all serious on me here. I think it's a great idea but a poor execution and you all think I'm wrong. If we are so accepting of opinions here, why all this hostility?

[thedamndest]

I'll see your ass in Rate The Last Movie You Saw!

[Jeritron]

Xero knows. I mean, honestly, it's not like we have batting average, RBIs and Home Runs to judge on. We have varying ways to gauge them, the most important of which is personal preference/entertainment.

[Nark Order]

You're arguing over the logistics of who's better in a fake sport FFS.

The name of the thread is "BETTER WRESTLER". Who's in the wrong here, if anybody?

[Jeritron]

RATE THE LAST MOVIE YOU SAW IS A FARCE!

[KYR]

Well, obviously some people think that "better" and "popular" are two different things considering you have people voting for wrestlers that they like better than than who they think is actually better. Ala screech.

I for one do NOT treat this as a popularity contest. I honestly look at each individual match-up and decide (through my own set of criteria) who (in my opinion) was the better "technical" wrestler, who was better on the mic, who entertained me more, who was around longer, who has done more for the business and the next generation of wrestlers coming through.

My proof of this is the fact that I voted for Angle over The Rock.

This doesn't mean that it's NOT a popularity contest but it is how each individual regards each individual poll.

And at the end of the day - why so serious?

[Jeritron]

Wrestler is their job title (unless you're Vince). It doesn't neccesarily mean actual mat wrestling. It means professional wrestler. It's ambiguous

[thedamndest]

RATE THE LAST MOVIE YOU SAW IS A FARCE!

THE ONLY FARCE AROUND HERE IS LIST THE LAST SONG YOU JUST LISTENED TO!

[Xero]

The name of the thread is "BETTER WRESTLER". Who's in the wrong here, if anybody?

How do you define "wrestler" in Professional Wrestling? That's what this comes down to.

A professional wrestler isn't just about the in-ring aspect, especially on the US scene.

Other people are going to define it differently. Your definition may not necessarily matter to the next person, and their's to the next. Someone may enjoy one style to another. One may like promos more than the in-ring work.

The fact is, what YOUR definition of "better wrestler" isn't the only definition.

[Nark Order]

I just wanna love but am swimming in a sea of haterade.

[Jeritron]

THE ONLY FARCE AROUND HERE IS LIST THE LAST SONG YOU JUST LISTENED TO!

The Youtube threads are flawed. Who says those videos are funny and/or entertaining to everybody?

[Nark Order]

Wrestler is their job title (unless you're Vince). It doesn't neccesarily mean actual mat wrestling. It means professional wrestler. It's ambiguous

So we agree that the title of the thread is misleading then? The title suggests we are supposed to find out who the better wrestler is but in reality the better wrestler doesn't exist?

[thedamndest]

Is there a way we can get the ECW title debate in here?

[KYR]

So we agree that the title of the thread is misleading then? The title suggests we are supposed to find out who the better wrestler is but in reality the better wrestler doesn't exist?

I think we set the ground rules in Round 1.

"Better Wrestler" can mean basically whatever we want - technical wrestler, popular, better on the mic, entertainer, or simply the fact that you prefer one over the other (whom you may just simply hate).

[Juan]

I voted for RVD. I know Angle has the better wrestling skills, but I've always been a huge RVD mark, dating back the good ol days of ECW. Plus that fact that he's a stoner is a plus for me.

[Lock Jaw]

The way I vote is for who entertained me the most. Being a better wrestler is a large part of that, but charisma and promo ability can put someone over the top. Kurt Angle is like the perfect combination of everything, and so he will be tough to beat.

Taz remains a mystery to me how he got into the HoF.

[KYR]

I voted for RVD. I know Angle has the better wrestling skills, but I've always been a huge RVD mark, dating back the good ol days of ECW. Plus that fact that he's a stoner is a plus for me.

Well you're just wrong then! :shifty:

[screech]

Well, obviously some people think that "better" and "popular" are two different things considering you have people voting for wrestlers that they like better than than who they think is actually better. Ala screech.

I said this already, but since you're still throwing a shit fit, I'll say it again. I usually vote based on technical skill, but I also vote based on how I am entertained. "Better Wrestler" to me means who can work a good match AND entertain a crowd, since it is his/her job to do both.

That said, my vote for RVD comes on the basis of being entertained by him moreso than Kurt, in addition to my disdain for Angle. Yes, Angle is a better technical wrestler, but that's only half of it. I was more entertained by Van Dam, therefore I enjoyed more of his matches than Angle's (again, partly due to me not being as big a fan of Angle's).

Why bother come into these threads to bitch about how people vote? It's a thread to voice your opinion on the wrestlers in the poll, not the people voting for them or how "unfair" the match-ups are. People vote for who they want, possibly give a reason, then leave. You should do the same and not bitch about who won or how you think the system is rigged.

Jesus Christ, it's a poll. Calm the fuck down.

EDIT: Wow I missed a lot in between. Stupid college internet being so damn slow.

[Nark Order]

How are you going to tell me that this thing isn't the least bit flawed if we're trying to determine who the better wrestler is when no one can seem to define "better" or "wrestler" the same way?

[Destor]

The name of the thread is "BETTER WRESTLER". Who's in the wrong here, if anybody?
No one can be wrong. It's up to them to come in here say who they feel is superior. As I have stated in at least 30 of these, this is totally up to you to decide on by what ever criteria you deam worthy. I don't care if it's because you like the shape of their ass better. It's totally irrelevent to me as to how you make these descisions. Just make the damn choice. and if enough people agree with you he will become champion. And if he beats 5 wrestlers he gets honored by going on an exclusive list. The end. I don't see how this is a hard concept. No one is wrong. No one is right, this is completely subjective.

:?:

[Juan]

How are you going to tell me that this thing isn't the least bit flawed if we're trying to determine who the better wrestler is when no one can seem to define "better" or "wrestler" the same way?

That's what makes these threads great. We can argue our case on why we voted the way we did.

[KYR]

How are you going to tell me that this thing isn't the least bit flawed if we're trying to determine who the better wrestler is when no one can seem to define "better" or "wrestler" the same way?

Does it really matter?

It's a bit of fun and generates good debate. I couldn't care whether someone picks a name out of a hat to make their choice.

[Destor]

How are you going to tell me that this thing isn't the least bit flawed if we're trying to determine who the better wrestler is when no one can seem to define "better" or "wrestler" the same way?
That's part of the point of the thread. Or at least it's why I made and why I rep people for telling me why they voted the way they did. I find it interesting hearing how people make the descisions, it's why I do these.

[Nark Order]

Alls I'm saying is that the thread title be changed to "Who are you a bigger mark for?" or something since apparently who's better cannot even be judged. And apparently we can't seem to figure out whether they are wrestlers or not.

[Destor]

That's what makes these threads great. We can argue our case on why we voted the way we did.
:y:

[Juan]

lol seems like you're missing the point Narc

[Destor]

Alls I'm saying is that the thread title be changed to "Who are you a bigger mark for?" or something since apparently who's better cannot even be judged. And apparently we can't seem to figure out whether they are wrestlers or not.We pick them because for what ever reason we feel they are better. This is why we are a bigger mark for them most of the time. how this is confusing you I may never know.

[screech]

I'm saying it shouldn't be about that. This has been discussed already. Better wrestler can be interpreted differently, we've pretty much agreed on that. People vote for someone based on their perception of that wrestler. It's based on opinion, and not everyone will have the same opinion on who the better wrestler is or how that's even defined. If they did, these really wouldn't be debates, would they?

Again, it shouldn't be about the flaws of the system or people disagreeing on what "better wrestler" means. It's about who people think is the better wrestler is in their eyes. It really shouldn't be a big issue.

[Nark Order]

I don't really see how none of you are getting this. I'm boggled a little. All of you said there's no such thing as being better in wrestling since it's all up to opinion. Yet "better" is in the title of the thread.

[Xero]

When it comes down it it, why does this even matter? We're fans voting on something we're passionate about in different ways. Some people will swear up and down that Nick Mondo is better than Kurt Angle, which, in the end, comes down to what they enjoy more, and while some may find it ludicrous to say that, it's their right to vote that way.

At the end of the day, none of this is going to change the world. Fuck, aside from you (Narc) being a douchebag in here and being labeled one for a while at least, nothing on the forums are going to change. Why so passionate about something that means jack shit?

[screech]

When it comes down it it, why does this even matter? We're fans voting on something we're passionate about in different ways. Some people will swear up and down that Nick Mondo is better than Kurt Angle, and while some may find it ludicrous to say that, it's their right to vote that way.

At the end of the day, none of this is going to change the world. Fuck, aside from you (Narc) being a douchebag in here and being labeled one for a while at least, nothing on the forums are going to change. Why so passionate about something that means jack shit?

:y:

EDIT: If these threads weren't based on opinions, they really wouldn't be much fun. I love reading how others feel about certain wrestlers, whether I voted for or against them. They're good discussions and no one has to feel like a moron because everyone has their own opinions.

[Nark Order]

Why can't we simply say "Who do you like more?" because all of you have blown the 'better wrestler' thing apart. Or "LOLZ, tis guy iz cool"

[Destor]

I don't really see how none of you are getting this. I'm boggled a little. All of you said there's no such thing as being better in wrestling since it's all up to opinion. Yet "better" is in the title of the thread.lol

He's got to be trolling guys. I refuse to beleive his this dumb.

[KYR]

I don't really see how none of you are getting this. I'm boggled a little. All of you said there's no such thing as being better in wrestling since it's all up to opinion. Yet "better" is in the title of the thread.

This was debated in Round 1.

There was general agreement after some discussion.

If you are having trouble with this I suggest you go back to Round 1 and read each thread in it's entirety.

Failing that, you'll just have to try and accept it (everyone else has).

[Xero]

Just for the record, I'm not trying to put this concept down. I love it and it does spark some good debate.

This debate, however, is meaningless.

[Destor]

Why can't we simply say "Who do you like more?" because all of you have blown the 'better wrestler' thing apart. Or "LOLZ, tis guy iz cool"You clearly can't read and have not read any BW before this one.

I'm glad you wont be voting anymore.

[Nark Order]

Also, why are you all flaming me for argueing about this when you're all fueling the flame by argueing back? That doesn't make all that much sense at all, does it?

[Xero]

Also, why are you all flaming me for argueing about this when you're all fueling the flame by argueing back? That doesn't make all that much sense at all, does it?

I refer you to the cases of TPWW v darkpower and TPWW v Noid.

[Destor]

lol

[KYR]

We are trying (and failing miserably) to explain this concept to you beacuse YOU asked the question.

You had trouble grasping the concept, so we persisted.

Now, we're just pissed.

[Destor]

We are trying (and failing miserably) to explain this concept to you beacuse YOU asked the question.

You had trouble grasping the concept, so we persisted.

Now, we're just pissed.
yes

[Theo Dious]

RVD's biggest claim to fame was getting pulled over for possession of marijuana and stripped of his belts. Pretty hilarious.

Technically he wasn't stripped, they were jobbed.

[Nark Order]

At the end of the day, I like you all but this is pretty ridiculous.

My suggestions:

-Make specific criteria for judging or just change the name of the thread.
-Come up with a defintion for "better"
-Come up with a definition for "wrestler" (Which is pretty ROFL to me still)
-Make random selections instead of giving certain guys easy matchups and some hard.
-Learn to respect the opinions that you go on about so much.

[Destor]

LAST TIME:

YOU VOTE ON WHO YOU THINK IS BETTER. YOU CAN BASE THIS OFF ANY CRITERIA YOU THINK MAKES ONE WRESTLER BETTER THAN ANOTHER. OTHERS DO THIS. POLL CLOSES. OTHER THREADS ARE MADE. THE WORLD KEEPS SPINNING.

[Xero]

Definition of Better: In your opinion
Definition of Wrestler: However you define it.

I declare these be the official definitions.

[KYR]

At the end of the day, I like you all but this is pretty ridiculous.

My suggestions:

-Make specific criteria for judging or just change the name of the thread.
-Come up with a defintion for "better"
-Come up with a definition for "wrestler" (Which is pretty ROFL to me still)
-Make random selections instead of giving certain guys easy matchups and some hard.
-Learn to respect the opinions that you go on about so much.

My suggestions:

-Keep the Better Wrestler Polls as they are.
-Start a New "Better Wrestler by Definition" Poll (Round 1) and only Narc can vote.

[Destor]

Definition of Better: In your opinion
Definition of Wrestler: However you define it.

I declare these be the official definitions.

seconded

[What Would Kevin Do?]

The mark in me is voting for RVD

[screech]

We are trying (and failing miserably) to explain this concept to you beacuse YOU asked the question.

You had trouble grasping the concept, so we persisted.

Now, we're just pissed.

:y:

This is one of the few times I'm actually making sense on here. How is this still a debate? If I can understand it enough to explain it clearly, everyone should get it.

[KYR]

My suggestions:

-Keep the Better Wrestler Polls as they are.
-Start a New "Better Wrestler by Definition" Poll (Round 1) and only Narc can vote.

BUT YOU BETTER VOTE FOR THE MOST POPULAR ONE!!!

[Fabien Barthez]

This is so stupid.

Look Narc, a wrestler has many criteria in which to perform his vocation. One of these criteria is in-ring performance. Another is selling. If you can do every move there is, and can't sell, you won't be a better wrestler than a guy that can.

Another criteria is drawing crowd reaction. If a wrestler can wrestle well and sell moves, but cannot draw a strong crowd reaction, he won't be a better wrestler than a guy that can do all three.

You may have a guy that can do all three, but has bad mic skills. Well, in comparison to a guy that performs well in all these 5 criteria, he just won't be the better wrestler.

If you need more of these criteria, I can cantinue.

The point is, a wrestler isn't judged purely on what they do physically from bell to bell, there are many different things that make up a good wrestler. Their look, Their gimmick, Their drawing power, Their charisma, Their ability to shock, how much they entertain you generally.

Many of these different criteria can outweigh others in different situations. For example, The Rock is not the best mat wrestler in the world by a long way. But he had masses of charisma, he was innovative, one of the biggest draws of all time, hugely entertaining and probably the best on the mic. Those things which we all agree he is stronger than HBK in, made him the Better Wrestler from the two.

And that is just...... it really.

[Nark Order]

How do you define "wrestler" in Professional Wrestling?

ROFL. sigged. Come on.

[Xero]

My suggestions:

-Keep the Better Wrestler Polls as they are.
-Start a New "Better Wrestler by Definition" Poll (Round 1) and only Narc can vote.

No, yeah, Narc. If you know so much and think this way is so fucked, why don't YOU start your own, lay out the definition of these words and the rules and see how well people vote in your polls.

His response is going to come down to "I'm too lazy to do it".

[Destor]

ROFL. sigged. Come on.And the post directly above this showed just how blind to what a wrestler truely is you are.

[Nark Order]

Destor, I'll bet you'd have Chris Hero win this whole competition if it were up to you.

[KYR]

I've run out of rep power after this thread.

[Destor]

Nah, Bryan Danielson.

[Destor]

Nah, Bryan Danielson.*which is why it's not "pick who Destor likes more"

[KYR]

Destor, I'll bet you'd have Chris Hero win this whole competition if it were up to you.

** cringe **

What does that have anything to...forget it. I'm outta here.

[El Fangel]

Rock, Austin, Triple H, Undertaker, Kane, Benoit and maybe Jerocho IMO are the only ones I would vote over Kurt.

[screech]

I've run out of rep power after this thread.

Shit's ridiculous.

[Nark Order]

Alright, I see you're all annoyed. Have fun with your "better wrestler " polls. Good luck on finding the definition of 'wrestler'.

[Xero]

Alright, I see you're all annoyed. Have fun with your "better wrestler " polls. Good luck on finding the definition of 'wrestler'.

I'm still waiting for you to start your own series of threads.

[screech]

Alright, I see you're all annoyed. Have fun with your "better wrestler " polls. Good luck on finding the definition of 'wrestler'.

Hey thanks! Good luck with your Better Wrestler threads!

:D

[screech]

In all of this commotion, RVD has gained another vote.

:D

[KYR]

There's a poll?

[Tazz Dan]

FUCK IT. I love RVD, but Kurt gets my vote.

[thedamndest]

Does this mean you won't be voting for Better Tag Team either?

[Lock Jaw]

How do you define tag team? :?:

[thedamndest]

Their hands must have touched at least once.

[Lock Jaw]

Eww!

[Fabien Barthez]

What if they are blind tag specialists?

[KYR]

Does an individual wrestler in a handicap match qualify as a Tag Team?

[Nark Order]

define 'hands'

[Destor]

Their hands must have touched at least once.
So no heel teams then?

[KYR]

Their hands must have touched at least once.

And seen by the ref.

[KYR]

define 'hands'

It's what you should be talking to right now...








'Cause the face ain't listenin'.

[Nark Order]

Wait a second here? How were we unable to define 'wrestler' but were able to successfully define tag team?

[Xero]

Hey Narc, how's that strict version of this thread coming along? Well, I hope.

[Tazz Dan]

Wait a second here? How were we unable to define 'wrestler' but were able to successfully define tag team?

Easy. Tag Team involves two or more people :roll:

No one said they had to be "wrestlers" first. :shifty:

[The Franchise]

Angle

[Jeritron]

The focus here should be on how awesome both pics I selected are, in different ways.

[CSL]

Another case of '____ is great and all but it's ____ freakin' ____! Come on now!'

Angle btw

[The Mackem]

RVD

Should have been massive

[Fabien Barthez]

RVD - Held back by the wellness policy? It came from The Mackem first people.

Angle for me, by the way. Rob is very good, but Kurt is probably the best active wrestler in the world, and has been since Eddie and Benoit died. He is one of the few people who is great as both a face and heel. There isn't many people i'd put over Angle.

[The Mackem]

He should have been elevated sooner. He was the guy who stood out from those who invaded.

[screech]

RVD

Should have been massive

:y:

[CSL]

I do understand this whole 'Should have been massive thing' but on his best day, he still isn't Kurt Angle

[The Optimist]

lol backlash

I got to page 2 and it pushed me hard enough to vote for Rob. I was on fence until I saw Narc started sucking cock.

[The Optimist]

When was the last time Kurt was great as a heel? Not just "gets heat" but great-great?

[Xero]

When was the last time Kurt was great as a heel? Not just "gets heat" but great-great?

That's like saying "when was the last time Van Dam got a decent push". It depends on the booking.

Van Dam is awesome, don't get me wrong, but he was pushed like shit through 85% of his WWE career. I don't hold that against him, though.

[Nark Order]

I am SOOO ready for Kurt Angle vs Super Calo next.

[Xero]

Hey Narc, how's that strict version of this thread coming along? Well, I hope.

[Nark Order]

I don't even know why I'm disputing this. It is very clear that Taz is better than The Rock, Flair, Savage, Edge, Triple H, HBK, Tully Blanchard, Brock Lesnar, and Chirs Benoit.

[Xero]

lol, I love how you keep dodging that.

[Jeritron]

I don't even know why I'm disputing this. It is very clear that Taz is better than The Rock, Flair, Savage, Edge, Triple H, HBK, Tully Blanchard, Brock Lesnar, and Chirs Benoit.

See, you still don't get it. It's not about beating them. It's not a ranking of best wrestlers. It's a vote on the better wrestler, from poll to poll. It's about getting into the hall of fame by facing the jury. They didn't, he did. End of story.

[Jeritron]

So it's not the Wrestler Hall of Fame. It's the Better Wrestler Hall of Fame. In other words, it's the Hall of Fame OF Better Wrestler.
It judges how you do in this competition. All of the other judging is left to the people.
If he wins 5 matches of ascending difficulty and gets past the 5th round challenger, he deserves to be in.
Preference and biases are a welcomed factor.
You just don't get the premise of what the competition is. TPWW Better Wrestler, and a Hall of Fame for the game, not the industry.

[screech]

Narc, how are you not getting this?

So it's not the Wrestler Hall of Fame. It's the Better Wrestler Hall of Fame. In other words, it's the Hall of Fame OF Better Wrestler.
It judges how you do in this competition. All of the other judging is left to the people.
If he wins 5 matches of ascending difficulty and gets past the 5th round challenger, he deserves to be in.
Preference and biases are a welcomed factor.
You just don't get the premise of what the competition is. TPWW Better Wrestler, and a Hall of Fame for the game, not the industry.

It really is that simple.

[Nark Order]

Has anyone called Taz and told him the news?

[Xero]

Funny, haven't seen another thread like this with a certain rule set...

Someone must have been talking out of their ass.

[Nark Order]

Xero, why are you so concerned with me making another thread? I don't want to make another thread or I would've done it already. I was simply making suggestions to make this one better and got flamed for it. I'M THE VICTIM HERE.

[Xero]

Don't like it? Do something about it other than bitching. You're the only of of this mindset. Since this is TPWW, not Narcissussforums, the majority wins out.

[Nark Order]

I was offering simple suggestions since the idea is clearly flawed, that's all. If you all want to continue using your flawed system where Taz is the grandmaster champion of everything and keep on judging everything with the "LAwL, he's awsum" method then go ahead. Was just trying to offer ideas to spice things up and I got flamed. Kind of funny how everyone kept on going to "respect our opinions" route and then Destor comes in and says "Your opinion is stupid". Very intelligent arguements you all have. My favorite still is the part where nobody can seem to define "wrestler".

[Xero]

So Narc, when you starting that thread?

[Nark Order]

Somebody has a Narc thread fetish. I'M NOT GONNA SAY WHO IT IS THOUGH.

[Xero]

Narc, I'm really looking forward to the new series of Better Wrestlers. Can't wait.

[Lock Jaw]

Wrestler: An entertainer who goes out in front of people and puts on a show that is combination athleticism, acting, and charisma. He uses these tools to suck in the audience into whatever he is doing and entertain them.

There you go. A definition of wrestler.

[Nark Order]

PM that to Destor.

[Xero]

Hey guys, who else is looking forward to Narc's threads?

I know I am!

[screech]

Hey guys, who else is looking forward to Narc's threads?

I know I am!

I can't wait! Will Christmas come early for TPWW?

[screech]

Narc, you're complaining about us not respecting opinions when you're coming in here telling us our opinions shouldn't decide better wrestler because "the system is flawed."

It's been explained that "Better Wrestler" is completely open to interpretation, which is what makes these threads interesting and fun. If people enjoy watching someone more than his/her opponent, they will cast their vote accordingly.

It's really simple, and I still can't see why you don't get it/had to come in and throw a shit fit in the 50th edition.

[Nark Order]

I get it, it's just ridiculous to use the word 'better' when you're just casting a popularity poll. When you use the word 'better', it's saying that there is a certain criteria that this is all being judged on and there isn't one. Call it what it is, a popularity poll. Call it "LAWLS, TAZ IS TE AWSUMS". And the arguement that there would be no criteria to effectively judge it on is stupid because there definitely is. It would still be based on opinion but if you broke it up into mic skills, ring psychology, portrayal of character, ability to control the audience, in-ring skill, marketability, ect then at least there would be some sort of legitimacey and orginization instead of "SURVIVE IF I LET YOU, HEHE". You aren't going to convince me otherwise.

[Lock Jaw]

Its not a popularity thing. Its just all subjective. Like my definition says, there's athleticism, acting, and charisma involved to try to draw in the audience.

However, some members of the audience might be more drawn in by the athletic part, while others are drawn in by charisma. There is no formula for personal taste. Which is what this poll is all about, really. Like how some people think Santino is the greatest thing ever, while others are turned off by his over the top antics. Personal taste.

Yes, it was pretty baffling how Taz got into the HoF, but whatever. Let go of it. This isn't supposed to be a legitimate institution.

[Nark Order]

TAZMISSIONZZZZZZZZZ

[screech]

This being a popularity contest and it being subjective are two different things, which is what you're confusing. People judge it on those different criteria (mat skills, charisma, etc.), so there's really no need to break it down since how each person views them is based on opinion. It's pretty much based on what Lock Jaw just said, and what I and everyone else has been telling you all along: opinion and personal taste.

We aren't voting for a legit Hall of Fame here, it's a public forum. Again, this shouldn't really be an argument, especially in the 50th edition of the thread.

And dear God your spelling is just awful.

[Nark Order]

This being a popularity contest and it being subjective are two different things, which is what you're confusing. People judge it on those different criteria (mat skills, charisma, etc.), so there's really no need to break it down since how each person views them.

The whole "I think angle is a better wrestler but I have a soft spot for RVD" thing really just wrecks that arguement completely. Also, I believe earlier on I saw something like "Was gonna vote fore angle before Narc put up such a fight about this. Go RVD". So, you're wrong. Just basically what that comes down to.

[screech]

I voted based on my feelings toward RVD and Angle. It was less about having a soft spot for RVD and more about being entertained by him moreso than I was entertained by Angle. Again, it isn't just about mat skills. I enjoyed watching RVD more than I do Angle, and that's what it came down to in the end.

I never said I have a "soft spot" for RVD. What I said was that I hate Kurt and I enjoy watching RVD. Someone can be a great wrestler, but if I can't be entertained I'm not going to vote for him.

How can I possibly be wrong if this is a subjective poll? Why is this not getting through your head? The system isn't flawed, and it's not a popularity contest. It's just based on different criteria which are based on the opinion of each individual voter.

Christ, you're dense. This really isn't that hard. I don't know how this could be made any clearer for you.

[Nark Order]

I wasn't talking just about you specifically because the world does not in fact revolve around screech. I see lots of similar responses that have nothing to do with one being better than the other. None of the criteria I mentioned seems to really be taken into account, and even if some people are using it, it would be a much more effective system to actually list it all out. This is infact a popularity poll and a "ROFL. tis guyes cool" poll. Terrible.

I'm dense because I disagree with you? For someone who is going on about everybody being entitled to their own opinions, you sure aren't respecting mine all too much. I say this is flawed and I've already told you that there is NOTHING that you can say to me to make me change my mind yet you're still babbling on about it. Now go cut pictures of Taz out of old wrestling magazines to put on your wall.

[Nark Order]

Note to self: It is kind of ridiculous how easy it is to rile up the wrestling forum.

[Xero]

Can't wait for your new series of threads Narc. :love:

[Xero]

Anyone who doesn't realize you're trolling by now is a pretty big idiot to be honest.

[Kane Knight]

They need a special GHWT/RB remix of Kurt's theme. Possibly by Steve Ouimette.

Angle will dominate on Guitar AND drums at the same time. With a broken FREAKIN' Neck!

[Nark Order]

Hey, I'm doing no worse than KK does everyday. Just argueing until people eventually give up. I don't really even care that much anymore but I'm sure I could probably go a little longer if people still want to argue. Come on though, you all made it kind of easy.

[Xero]

You win at the internets.

[Kane Knight]

Narc's getting desperate. BAWWWWW Kane Knight BAWWWWWWW. Ah well.

[Nark Order]

Uh oh, KK's "somebody is talking about me on the internet" radar went off. Luckily he was here to defend himself. That was close.

[Jeritron]

23-13 isn't even a blowout by standards. It's a big lead, of course, but it's not near a landslide compared to Angle's performance against The Rock of all people

[screech]

Man, when I left it was still in reach for RVD. Ah I did what I could.

[The Franchise]

RVD can do various kinds of kicking maneuvers.

[The Mackem]

51?

[Destor]

someone suggest 3 guys so I don't have to come up with anyone

[CSL]

CM Punk, Dusty Rhodes, Mr. Perfect

[CSL]

Scratch Perfect, needs a few more rounds

[Destor]

The only person from your list that is active is Punk and I don't feel he's fourth round level for a Kurt Angle.

[Destor]

Wait, I haven't done Dusty yet...

[Destor]

I wanna do Dorry Funk Jr but no one would vote for him despite his awesomeness...:(

[Destor]

FUCK IT I KNO WWHO I'M DOING

[Xero]

The Brooklyn Brawler.

Just to piss off Narc.