Rey needs to stop fighting hosses or change his moves

[Kane Knight]

And it's not even about hosses, anyone sizeable. Watching his match on Monday Night, his moves against Morrison looked particularly terrible. And I'm pretty convinced that Morrison was selling to the best of his ability, it's just that Rey's moves are not proportionately scaled to people bigger than him. They work on cruisers, not on people with a foot or more on him.

[Dorkchop]

I agree. It looks ridiculous watching Rey give Kane a hurricanranna.

[Xero]

He needs to adapt. The speed is great, but he should focus more on flying and evasion instead of grappling.

[Kane Knight]

He needs to adapt. The speed is great, but he should focus more on flying and evasion instead of grappling.

Or maybe grapples that just don't look as silly. I understand why he doesn't fly as much anymore. His knees are shite. But the answer is not silly looking moves. He's Rey. He can get pops giving Purple Nurples for Christ's sake.

[Haze]

is it me, or has Rey looked alot smaller recenlty?

[BigDaddyCool]

I hate Rey.

[Destor]

And it's not even about hosses, anyone sizeable. Watching his match on Monday Night, his moves against Morrison looked particularly terrible. And I'm pretty convinced that Morrison was selling to the best of his ability, it's just that Rey's moves are not proportionately scaled to people bigger than him. They work on cruisers, not on people with a foot or more on him.Gonna need some examples here.

[BigDaddyCool]

Speaking as a fat, out of shape jerk that like to wrestle around with my 11 year old cousin and give him power bombs and such, if Kane wants to power bomb Rey, there isn't much Rey can do about it.

[Destor]

lol

[BigDaddyCool]

Same thing goes for like Knox.

[BigDaddyCool]

I could buy it on like Morrison or Miz, but they don't do powerbombs, now do they?

[Destor]

For the record, in a shoot neither Kane nor Knox could power bomb Rey Mysterio.

[Afterlife]

Why's that?

[BigDaddyCool]

Yes, explain. I can see in a shoot fight them not bothering.

[Kane Knight]

Arguing what would happen in a shoot when talking about what it looks like in pro wrestling is retarded anyway.

[Destor]

Why's that?
Go out and try to power bomb a grown man half you size and come back to me. Clearly you guys have never tried to power bomb a guy and then have him sandbag you.

I'll tell you first hand, you can't do it.

[BigDaddyCool]

Go out and try to power bomb a grown man half you size and come back to me. Clearly you guys have never tried to power bomb a guy and then have him sandbag you.

I'll tell you first hand, you can't do it.

I have, and done it.

[Xero]

That stands for about 99% of people. Don't see the point in limiting it to Rey.

[Destor]

Arguing what would happen in a shoot when talking about what it looks like in pro wrestling is retarded anyway.
Not it's not. We're talking psychology. BDC says it doesn't make sense that rey could fight off a power bomb. BDC doesn't know what he's talking about. I called him on it.

[Destor]

I have, and done it.
Against his will? You're a fucking liar.

[Destor]

Or he's cippled.

[BigDaddyCool]

Against his will? You're a fucking liar.

He deadwieghted me.

Plus Brock could powerbomb Rey if he felt like it.

But this is all crap anyhow, in the world of fake wrestling, it is still hard to believe Rey can stop a powerbomb from a hoss.

[Xero]

Lesnar Powerbombed Holly. Pretty sure he could do it to Rey.

[Destor]

Piledriver I can buy. Powerbomb? Nah.

[Destor]

Lesnar Powerbombed Holly. Pretty sure he could do it to Rey.
bob kicked off the ground, he didn't pull his head up. Basically piledrove himself.

[Xero]

Hey look, a powerbomb:

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[BigDaddyCool]

Bob has 70/80 pounds on Rey. Brock could do whatever he wanted to Rey.

[Gerard]

Mysterios matches are by far the cheesiest and most sickening on raw (aside fomr the skanks). He relies on so much assistance from his opponents his matches just look incredibly dumb.

[BigDaddyCool]

I agree 200% with Gerard. While a powerbomb needs help, Rey needs the other guy to do everything for him.

[Afterlife]

Go out and try to power bomb a grown man half you size and come back to me. Clearly you guys have never tried to power bomb a guy and then have him sandbag you.

I'll tell you first hand, you can't do it.

I'm 5' 7". There are no grown men half my size.

[Hanso Amore]

I used to powerbomb my brother with no problems when I weighed 155 and he was 65 or some shit.

Brock weighs 275 of muscle, and Rey Rey is BILLED at 150, so he is more like 135.

Brock can do anything he wants with Rey.

[Mr. Nerfect]

The thing I don't like about Rey Mysterio's offense is how "convenient" it is. Somehow, in Rey Mysterio matches, the guy always ends up falling over the second rope, in perfect position for the 619.

When it comes to working with big men, Evan Bourne is quite a bit ahead of Mysterio, which is sad, considering Mysterio's experience.

[thedamndest]

As far as the 619 goes, they should either a) stop booking it every match or b) make it look like Rey is actually trying to get the guy on the second rope/set up the 619 instead of being so fucking caught off guard when he happens to land there.

[BigDaddyCool]

Unfortunately I agree with noid, not about the bourne thing, I haven't seen him enough to make a judgement other than I simply don't like him. But yes, Rey's matches are awful.

[thedamndest]

Our top story today: It's snowing in Hell.

[BigDaddyCool]

Well it has more to do with noid finally talking sense, I've hated rey ever since he came to WWE.

[Kane Knight]

Ah. This started with Destor. No wonder it's such bullshit.

[thedamndest]

Playing ASK BDC, how would you make Rey a heel?

[4 knuckles up]

The way Rey gets people into the 619 is retarded, yes. But how people can bitch about Rey's in ring performance is beyond me.

The guy is popular with the kids, and heaven forbid you like what they like? I'm not saying Rey is wrestlings greatest, or even in the top 10, but he gets alot more stick from you guys then he should.

[Xero]

The way Rey gets people into the 619 is retarded, yes. But how people can bitch about Rey's in ring performance is beyond me.

The guy is popular with the kids, and heaven forbid you like what they like? I'm not saying Rey is wrestlings greatest, or even in the top 10, but he gets alot more stick from you guys then he should.

So just because he's popular means he should be immune to all criticism.

Holy shit, does this mean John Cena is never going to change?

[BigDaddyCool]

Well he would at first come down and beat the hell out of Knox with a chair or something. People would cheer at first, and the commenators would be saying Rey is finally getting his revenge, blah blah blah. But I would book Rey to take it a little to far. Next week have him find Knox in the back, ask Knox if they are even, Knox recluctantly would say yes, then walk off. As Knox walk off, but Rey says wrong answer or something, and assult knox again (with weapons of course). Cole and King would try to justify the attack, but would have a harder time this time.

Then during some tag match with Cena and Kofi and Punk against random group of heels including Kane, Rey gets tagged in against Kane. Kane tosses Rey out. When Kane comes to get Rey, Rey cheap shots Kane, and gets his team dqed.

The next week Cena and Rey are talking, Cena asks Rey what is up. Rey goes into a long venting rant about tried of being bullied and he isn't going to stand for it. Rey then would start becoming distant, not giving kids hand shakes and maybe getting a body guard.

[FourFifty]

Go out and try to power bomb a grown man half you size and come back to me. Clearly you guys have never tried to power bomb a guy and then have him sandbag you.

I'll tell you first hand, you can't do it.

Just ask Hardcore Holly where that gets you.

[Kane Knight]

Just ask Hardcore Holly where that gets you.

Just read it as "I have the strength of a thirteen year old girl, so everyone else must, too."

Because that's what you're looking at here.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Well he would at first come down and beat the hell out of Knox with a chair or something. People would cheer at first, and the commenators would be saying Rey is finally getting his revenge, blah blah blah. But I would book Rey to take it a little to far. Next week have him find Knox in the back, ask Knox if they are even, Knox recluctantly would say yes, then walk off. As Knox walk off, but Rey says wrong answer or something, and assult knox again (with weapons of course). Cole and King would try to justify the attack, but would have a harder time this time.

Then during some tag match with Cena and Kofi and Punk against random group of heels including Kane, Rey gets tagged in against Kane. Kane tosses Rey out. When Kane comes to get Rey, Rey cheap shots Kane, and gets his team dqed.

The next week Cena and Rey are talking, Cena asks Rey what is up. Rey goes into a long venting rant about tried of being bullied and he isn't going to stand for it. Rey then would start becoming distant, not giving kids hand shakes and maybe getting a body guard.

Until the bodyguard part, that is comedy gold. And I don't mean that as a criticism to anyone but Rey's bad-ass capibilities.

[BigDaddyCool]

It would have to be a big chair or a sledge hammer. It is just hard turning him heel because he is so small. You would need to do every trick in the book to get him any heat.

[Mr. Nerfect]

To be fair to Destor, hitting an actual powerbomb on a guy, like a proper powerbomb, always requires co-operation. Always. You could botch a powerbomb on someone against their will, but unless you are fighting midgets, the physics of a true powerbomb just wouldn't work in a real fight.

[BigDaddyCool]

Well, it depends on what kind of power bomb. A gut-wrench power bomb, or a awesome-bomb (the Mike Awesome version, over the shoulder kind) you can force someone up there and drop them. Plus, in a real fight, would you care if you "botched" it?

[Mr. Nerfect]

It would have to be a big chair or a sledge hammer. It is just hard turning him heel because he is so small. You would need to do every trick in the book to get him any heat.

I agree that it would be tricky. The bodyguard thing would be a great step. So would a career-oriented Rey, I think. He stops trying to "entertain" and starts trying to "win." I mean, Rey is only like 32 years old, isn't he? They could work that into the angle, where Rey talks about how a safer and smarter style could let him go on for years and years, and make a true legacy for himself.

Paul Heyman, as an on-screen manager, would really help out Rey, who is just not likely able to get the true emotion needed across in promos. Mysterio would just need to slightly tweak his current ring presence to the point where he is annoying and pesky in the ring, and you just want to see him flattened, but his resourcefulness gets in the way.

They could also work in something about how he's betrayed lucha culture by doning the mask after removing it, too.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Well, it depends on what kind of power bomb. A gut-wrench power bomb, or a awesome-bomb (the Mike Awesome version, over the shoulder kind) you can force someone up there and drop them. Plus, in a real fight, would you care if you "botched" it?

I would probably hope I did botch it. Ganso Bomb the fucker. But I get what Destor is saying, is all I'm saying: it's more likely to end up as a piledriver or a powerslam variant, although the versions you are talking about might be a bit more probable than a true powerbomb.

[BigDaddyCool]

I agree that it would be tricky. The bodyguard thing would be a great step. So would a career-oriented Rey, I think. He stops trying to "entertain" and starts trying to "win." I mean, Rey is only like 32 years old, isn't he? They could work that into the angle, where Rey talks about how a safer and smarter style could let him go on for years and years, and make a true legacy for himself.
Change his style, but not have him talk about it. Him not wanting to be bullied is enough. Especially if he starts being pro-active/premtive about bullying and a little paranoid, like wig out on Cena.

Paul Heyman, as an on-screen manager, would really help out Rey, who is just not likely able to get the true emotion needed across in promos. Mysterio would just need to slightly tweak his current ring presence to the point where he is annoying and pesky in the ring, and you just want to see him flattened, but his resourcefulness gets in the way.

Heyman? Really? I would rather another Mexican.

They could also work in something about how he's betrayed lucha culture by doning the mask after removing it, too.
No one gives a shit about lucha in america.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Change his style, but not have him talk about it. Him not wanting to be bullied is enough. Especially if he starts being pro-active/premtive about bullying and a little paranoid, like wig out on Cena.



[QUOTE=BigDaddyCool;2390845][COLOR="darkorange"]Heyman? Really? I would rather another Mexican.

Really? Just for the sake of putting two Mexicans together, or for a more pressing reason? Heyman and Mysterio have enough history with ECW for an on-air relationship between them to work, I think.

No one gives a shit about lucha in america.

Well, perhaps, but Rey is evidence that they find the style exciting, and another luchador taking exception to Rey as a minor program could be sort of interesting. I wouldn't make it a major part of the turn.

[BigDaddyCool]

Heyman isn't coming back to WWE, that and the bully thing is a trust issue, so I would expect him to bring in another Mexican as a manager...truthfully, I would have Konnan come in, but that is less likely than Heyman.

As for lucha, the style and the tradition are incredibly different. Just cause people find the style exciting doesn't mean they give a shit about the tradition. Plus the mask thing is ancient history now.

[Legend Killer]

I'm 5' 7". There are no grown men half my size.

Hornswoggle.

[Xero]

Hornswoggle is 4'4, which is not half of 5'7.

Now that I think about it, he's a fucking tall midget.

[BigDaddyCool]

Vern Troyer?

[BigDaddyCool]

Yeah, Vern Troyer is a little less than half 5 foot seven.

[Nark Order]

I've thought about a Rey Mysterio heel turn for quite awhile now and I would do it a bit differently. I would have him be the ultimate 'charity case' character. Everytime he loses, he tells everybody that it wasn't fair in the first place considering his size, that they should all be commending him for even competing, and that he has more guts than anybody anywhere including all of the pansies in the audience. He'll lose a couple more matches and tell everybody that he's going to make a petition to the GM that his matches should be handicapped in is favor because he is at such a disadvantage. This would lead to a heel GM granting him his wish, and Rey winning most of his matches that are booked in his favor (giving him a partner, allowing him to use weapons, ect). He then asks everybody what it's like to be at such a disadvantage, since he's had one his entire life (It's not fair, is it?). All of the cruiserweights that once looked up to him, come up to him and tell him that they thought that he was different and stood for something, ect. which could lead to mini fueds. It could then lead to a WWE Championship matc where the odds are so stacked against the Champion that it's impossible for him to even retain. Cue heel Mysterio title reign.

I think this could work.

[Destor]

Well, it depends on what kind of power bomb. A gut-wrench power bomb, or a awesome-bomb (the Mike Awesome version, over the shoulder kind) you can force someone up there and drop them. Plus, in a real fight, would you care if you "botched" it?
It would be in your best interest to botch it.

[Destor]

Just read it as "I have the strength of a thirteen year old girl, so everyone else must, too."

Because that's what you're looking at here.
Spoken like a guy who's never tried it.

[Destor]

Keep actin high and mighty though.

[BigDaddyCool]

I've thought about a Rey Mysterio heel turn for quite awhile now and I would do it a bit differently. I would have him be te ultimate 'charity case' character. Everytime he loses, e tells everybody that it wasn't fair in the first place considering his size, that they should all be commending him for even competing, and that he has more guts than anybody anywhere including all of the pansies in the audience. He'll lose a couple more matches and tell everybody that he's going to make a petition to the GM that his matches should be handicapped in is favor because he is at such a disadvantage. This would lead to a heel GM granting him his wish, and Rey winning most of his matches that are booked in his favor (giving him a partner, allowing him to use weapons, ect). He then asks everybody what it's like to be at such a disadvantage, since he's had one his entire life (It's not fair, is it?). All of the cruiserweights that once looked up to him, come up to him and tell him that they thought that he was different and stood for something, ect. which could lead to mini fueds. It could then lead to a WWE Championship matc where the odds are so stacked against the Champion that it's impossible for him to even retain. Cue heel Mysterio title reign.

I think this could work.

Yeah. That could work too.

[Tornado]

I weigh 10st and stand around 5"10, i'm almost positive I could powerbomb someone who weighs 5st.

[BigDaddyCool]

This is america, we don't weight things in stone, you are going to have to translate to pounds.

[Fox]

Remember when Rey Mysterio wrestled Ric Flair for the WCW Championship on that Spring Breakout edition of Nitro back in 1999? He almost won that match. He was very, very over at the time, and although he had gained victories over some larger men in the past, this was very uncommon for Rey to wrestle for the Heavyweight Title, as he generally always fought cruiserweights. After he lost that match, Rey went back to being in the cruiserweight division.

That was how WWE should've booked his World Title win. As a once in a lifetime sort of opportunity. He should've won the Royal Rumble without any build-up whatsoever, won his match in a heavyweight versus cruiserweight, underdog style match, and held the belt for a month. Once it was over, after he celebrated his spotlight, he would return to where he belongs: in the Cruiserweight division. Because when you have Rey - a small guy who is an amazing cruiserweight - win a big underdog match like that, the fans care. When he beats heavyweights all the time, not only does it make them look terrible, but it's just not believable. Rey should be a lifer in the cruiserweight division, with occasional appearances in the main event.

Of course, there isn't a cruiserweight division anymore, but my point is still made.

[BigDaddyCool]

Rey never won the World Title.

[Nark Order]

Yes... he did?

The World Heavyweight Campionship. World title for short.

[BigDaddyCool]

No he didn't.

[Fox]

No, he didn't. My post makes no sense.

[Nark Order]

My bad, I was thinking of Eddie Guerrero. That guy that died that didn't kill his family.

[BigDaddyCool]

If you are so smart, when did Rey allegedly win this title?

[Xero]

:shifty:

[Nark Order]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1046/1216860478_0a35be564f.jpg

What a photoshop job. COULD YOU IMAGINE?

[BigDaddyCool]

Yeah that never happened.

[KYR]

Midgets can't win World Titles.

That's why the Cruiserweight Championship was axed after the last winner. :shifty:

[KYR]

Oh and as everyone already knows - I HATE REY! :mad:

[Xero]

I did not know this.

I will note it in my "Notes About TPWW - KYR Section" document.

[KYR]

It began when he started wrestling in those ridiculous devil horns back in WCW but culminated in that WWE Championship that never happened.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Heyman isn't coming back to WWE, that and the bully thing is a trust issue, so I would expect him to bring in another Mexican as a manager...truthfully, I would have Konnan come in, but that is less likely than Heyman.

As for lucha, the style and the tradition are incredibly different. Just cause people find the style exciting doesn't mean they give a shit about the tradition. Plus the mask thing is ancient history now.

I know Paul Heyman's not coming back. Believe me...I know. :'(

Remember when Rey Mysterio wrestled Ric Flair for the WCW Championship on that Spring Breakout edition of Nitro back in 1999? He almost won that match. He was very, very over at the time, and although he had gained victories over some larger men in the past, this was very uncommon for Rey to wrestle for the Heavyweight Title, as he generally always fought cruiserweights. After he lost that match, Rey went back to being in the cruiserweight division.

That was how WWE should've booked his World Title win. As a once in a lifetime sort of opportunity. He should've won the Royal Rumble without any build-up whatsoever, won his match in a heavyweight versus cruiserweight, underdog style match, and held the belt for a month. Once it was over, after he celebrated his spotlight, he would return to where he belongs: in the Cruiserweight division. Because when you have Rey - a small guy who is an amazing cruiserweight - win a big underdog match like that, the fans care. When he beats heavyweights all the time, not only does it make them look terrible, but it's just not believable. Rey should be a lifer in the cruiserweight division, with occasional appearances in the main event.

Of course, there isn't a cruiserweight division anymore, but my point is still made.

I think Rey could have honestly been a pretty decent World Heavyweight Champion. They just really went the wrong way about it.

1) Rey Mysterio's 2006 Royal Rumble win, while impressive, was seriously diluted by the fact that it wasn't the main event of the show, and that fucking Mark Henry took headlining priority over him.

2) Rey looked like the biggest chump putting his Rumble title win on the line against Orton. He looked like a bigger chump than I do when I call KK on his shit, because he's just looking for some self-affirmation that he's worth something somewhere. He should have told Randy to "fuck off." The match could have still been done, but the title shot being on the line shouldn't have been Rey's choice.

3) Losing to Orton was fucking stupid, too. Then getting awarded his match back because Teddy Long felt sorry for him? You've got to be fucking kidding me. This is when I predicted that the Chicago audience would shit all over Rey at WrestleMania 22. That was in Chicago, right? CM Punk made an appearance as a gangster for Cena?

4) The match where Mysterio became World Heavyweight Champion for the first-time in his career really should have been one-on-one. Kurt Angle and Rey Mysterio have had fantastic matches in the past. They just have magical chemistry. He was also Rey's first PPV opponent in the WWE, which adds a cyclical feature to Rey's title win. But yeah, a nine-minute Triple Threat with Randy Orton was not the way to go.

5) What kind of big moment was Rey winning the World Title meant to be if he didn't headline Mania with his Rumble win? This is actually something that pisses me off to no end regarding the Rumble these days. 2006, 2007 and 2008 have all seen the Royal Rumble winner work an earlier title match. Part of the luster of the Rumble Match was that the Rumble winner would go on to WrestleMania, and not only receive a title shot, but would have the glory of main eventing.

6) Rey looked like the biggest idiot coming out with that thing on his head. He looked like the biggest goof, and that's not what you want your face challenger to look like.

7) "The Giant Killer" gimmick he had in WCW would have really come in handy during his run as, you know, the guy who is meant to be the best on SmackDown!? There is no way he should have been losing to Mark Henry and The Great Khali.

8) Commentary kept putting him over as "The Ultimate Underdog," or whatever. No. He is the World Heavyweight Champion. That means he is the best, by sheer definition. His Rumble win was so impressive. Where was Michael Cole calling Rey Mysterio the greatest Royal Rumble performer of all-time? Better than Stone Cold Steve Austin, Triple H, Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels, Hulk Hogan, Bret Hart, Chris Benoit or even Eddie Guerrero? He went in #2, and lasted longer than anyone else in history. It was (in kayfabe), one of most impressive feats ever accomplished in the WWE.

Also, as the smallest guy to ever win the World Heavyweight Championship, or WWE Championship, for that matter, they really should have highlighted that one could make a case for Rey Mysterio being pound-for-pound the most talented individual in WWE history. Underdog, my ass.

9) Chavo was right, Rey was riding Eddie's legacy. It came about as his reign as World Heavyweight Champion ended, but Chavo was 100% correct in everything he said about Rey's character to that point. It made it so easy to dislike Rey.

[Fox]

I see your negatives. I don't see any suggestions on how they could have realistically portrayed him as a legitimate world champion, up against people who are so much fucking bigger than him.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I see your negatives. I don't see any suggestions on how they could have realistically portrayed him as a legitimate world champion, up against people who are so much fucking bigger than him.

Experience, natural ability and strategy. Against Mark Henry, Rey should have hit him with so many low dropkicks it's not funny. Also, the whole purpose of cruiserweight offense is to compensate for a lack of size by using momentum and your agility against bigger opponents with less agility, giving yourself enough force to conceivably do enough damage to defeat them.

Rey should have worked on taking down Henry's legs, and then started hitting the springboards and what not. That's just one example.

[Legend Killer]

I've thought about a Rey Mysterio heel turn for quite awhile now and I would do it a bit differently.


If Rey was to turn heel, thats a shit load of money lost by the WWE.

[KYR]

I feel as though I could contribute more to this thread but it's about Rey so I won't.

[KYR]

This is by no means a reflection on GayforLegendKiller2007's post.


:p

[Legend Killer]

This is by no means a reflection on GayforLegendKiller2007's post.


:p

LOL

[Afterlife]

If Rey was to turn heel, thats a shit load of money lost by the WWE.

I disagree.

[Juan]

Rey needs to stop fighting hosses or change his moves.


I was thinking the same thing while watching Raw the other night,