Well, ROH might be moving slowly up in the world...

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yesterday, HDNet sent an official offer to Ring of Honor for a proposed one-hour weekly TV show. This is the first TV offer the promotion has ever received. As of now there is no word on the details of the deal or even if Ring of Honor has accepted the offer.

Credit: Wrestlingobserver.com

[BigDaddyCool]

So they will be going from defacto #3 promotion to defact #3 promtion with a 1 hour tv deal? (defecto in the usa)

[Mr. Nerfect]

Pretty much. I mean, you can't expect them to jump up to #2 overnight, can you? Apparently ROH has been in talk with bigger networks than this before, but maybe just the appearance of an offer made public might help ROH negotiate better with other places.

I'd definitely call this a positive step.

[Xero]

ROH will never be number 2 unless TNA crumbles. TNA caters to the mainstream wrestling fan, and that's who you have cater to to be considered successful in this country.

I'd rather see ROH stay as it is now than see it adapt and eventually transform into a sports entertainment promotion.

[BigDaddyCool]

ROH will never be number 2 unless TNA crumbles.

Which would be vitrually over night, and since that is the only way I expect RoH to become #2 (defacto #2 anyhow) I can expect them to become #2 over night. So suck on that. Noid can suck on it. Xero can too if he wished, but the suck on it comment was aimed at Noid.

[Fignuts]

ROH will never be number 2 unless TNA crumbles. TNA caters to the mainstream wrestling fan, and that's who you have cater to to be considered successful in this country.

I'd rather see ROH stay as it is now than see it adapt and eventually transform into a sports entertainment promotion.

[Mercury Bullet]

This is good for wrestling I think. More on TV is never a bad thing. And if the show winds up suckign terribly it won't stay on long and we won't have to worry about it.

[Destor]

So they will be going from defacto #3 promotion to defact #3 promtion with a 1 hour tv deal? (defecto in the usa)Yeah, those chumps! No.3! Fuckn loosers. Out of what 10,000? Yeah they suck.

[Nark Order]

Maybe the movie 'The Wrestler' had something to do with this?

[Destor]

I knew this offer was in the works and I'm very happy about it ftr.

[Xero]

Yeah, those chumps! No.3! Fuckn loosers. Out of what 10,000? Yeah they suck.

They're number three in the sense that no one else is there. Yeah, they're a bit above most other indy promotions, but the leap from ROH to TNA in terms of success is ridiculously large.

Basically, there HAS to be a #3, ROH just happens to be there at the moment.

[Nark Order]

Seriously. TNA is only considered #2 simply because they are there and nobody else is. They never have a chance in hell at reaching the success of WWE.

[Destor]

They're number three in the sense that no one else is there. Yeah, they're a bit above most other indy promotions, but the leap from ROH to TNA in terms of success is ridiculously large.

Basically, there HAS to be a #3, ROH just happens to be there at the moment.
Think of all the other companies that are fighting to get on the map brother. Just because you can't see them doens't mean they aren't there. RoH is accomplishing something. Acting like being no.3 ins't an accomplishment is foolish.

[Destor]

It takes a lot of hard work to get exposure. You guys act like it's some simple task to get big.

[NeanderCarl]

ROH will never be number 2 unless TNA, CZW, XPW, NWA: Hollywood, NWA: Parts Unknown... you get the idea, I got bored with the joke already.

[Destor]

ROH will never be number 2 unless TNA, CZW, XPW, NWA: Hollywood, NWA: Parts Unknown... you get the idea, I got bored with the joke already....you're not serious are you? Now I don't think for a second that RoH is ever gonna be no.2, but they're already ahead of every company you named save TNA.

I pretty sure you're kidding though. I hope so.

[NeanderCarl]

Hmmm, I'd like to see a territory called NWA Parts Unknown, though.

How could they advertise the show venues though? How would you know how to get there?

And Bowfinger is on the TV, Heather Graham is fucking lovely.

I might drink now.

[Mercury Bullet]

http://img.iht.com/images/2009/01/06/pinkiguana.550.jpg

[NeanderCarl]

Oh Steve Martin is loving this. Kissing Heather Graham's lovely lips, and her rack is amazing in that black dress too. Man would she get it.

[NeanderCarl]

Fuck, I thought I was thinking that.

[Indifferent Clox]

ROH could be number 2

When I've introduced people into pro wrestling it's a lot easier to get them to watch ROH than TNA or WWE

but that may just be my expereinces and my talking up of ROH

My parents actually like some ROH and hate WWE

my gf likes wwe a little but likes ROH a hell of a lot more

She's pretty much indifferent towards TNA... that's sounds wrong for some reason

[Xero]

There are a few promotions that I'm sure could overtake ROH within a year. You can't say the same about ROH to TNA or TNA to WWE.

It's nothing when it's a situation like that. When ROH is pulling down TNA-like ratings on national TV and running monthly PPVs, we can talk. Until then, ROH is nothing in terms of its success vs the big two.

For the record, I'm not saying ROH ISN'T successful compared to other indy promotions, just that the gap isn't nearly as steep.

[NeanderCarl]

my gf likes wwe a little but likes ROH a hell of a lot more

She's pretty much indifferent towards TNA... that's sounds wrong for some reason

http://www.tpwwforums.com/showthread.php?t=78498

[Destor]

There are a few promotions that I'm sure could overtake ROH within a year. You can't say the same about ROH to TNA or TNA to WWE.

It's nothing when it's a situation like that. When ROH is pulling down TNA-like ratings on national TV and running monthly PPVs, we can talk. Until then, ROH is nothing in terms of its success vs the big two.

For the record, I'm not saying ROH ISN'T successful compared to other indy promotions, just that the gap isn't nearly as steep.
No doubt, but being the no.1 indy fed WITHOUT QUESTION is impressive and likewise being no.3 is too. But compairing them to the juggarnaut that is the WWE or the Panda Energy backed TNA and expecting them to pull the same numbers is rediculous. What they've accomplished in the 6 year run is VERY impressive.

...and unlike TNA they turn a profit...

[NeanderCarl]

You say that, but WCW closed the gap on WWE in well under a year to be considered almost even footing, and within 2 years were in the lead. So it's possible, much like Vince took the WWF to the top within a year or two.

[Destor]

You say that, but WCW closed the gap on WWE in well under a year to be considered almost even footing, and within 2 years were in the lead. So it's possible, much like Vince took the WWF to the top within a year or two.
WCW was around for along time though and brought in the built in NWA fan base.

[NeanderCarl]

TNA also turns a profit. ROH has to be satisfied with the original 'ECW spot', but with a smart business brain in place, the 'ECW spot' isn't neccessarily a derogatory term.

[Destor]

TNA turned a profit for the first time last year, they shouldn't brag.

[NeanderCarl]

WCW was around for along time though and brought in the built in NWA fan base.

Doesn't matter how long the burger bar on the end of the street has been there if they serve the same 5 customers every day.

They had a bit of history behind them, but they created a more enjoyable product and brought in some big names, and very soon were snapping at WWE's heels.

[Destor]

And yeah, the ECw spot is damn ood place to be.

[NeanderCarl]

In the business world, the majority of successful companies have to be satisfied to operate at a loss for the first year, or sometimes several. It's the way it is. TNA have been building a foundation, at a cost. Now they are turning a profit. I'm not a massive fan, but I'm glad to see it.

[Nark Order]

And yeah, the ECw spot is damn ood place to be.

As long as ROH doesn't bounce their checks.

[NeanderCarl]

Why do I always end up using food analogies when discussing wrestling???

[Destor]

Doesn't matter how long the burger bar on the end of the street has been there if they serve the same 5 customers every day.

They had a bit of history behind them, but they created a more enjoyable product and brought in some big names, and very soon were snapping at WWE's heels.
You can't deny they had a leg up. Something TNA and RoH both would kill for. they both are having to build from the group. Which is nothing short of impressive. again, crapping on both TNA or RoH for being where they're at is really dumb. And compairing them to WCW and even dumber.

[Destor]

In the business world, the majority of successful companies have to be satisfied to operate at a loss for the first year, or sometimes several. It's the way it is. TNA have been building a foundation, at a cost. Now they are turning a profit. I'm not a massive fan, but I'm glad to see it.I agree.

[NeanderCarl]

As long as ROH doesn't bounce their checks.

Checks??? Haha I'm sure they can afford to stump up the $20 out of the petty cash.

[Nark Order]

THIS JUST IN: Paul Heyman signs with ROH as a finacial advisor.

[NeanderCarl]

You can't deny they had a leg up. Something TNA and RoH both would kill for. they both are having to build from the group. Which is nothing short of impressive. again, crapping on both TNA or RoH for being where they're at is really dumb. And compairing them to WCW and even dumber.

I don't deny it at all, but you know the landscape had changed so much between the JCP days and the WCW of, say, 1994 that nobody would really tune in out of familiarity, only to see the star names they recognise (much like TNA fans can do today, with Angle, Sting, Steiner, Nash et al). There was very little resemblance, and the only major argument you can make it for the lineage and history of the NWA title (which actually meant something to fans in those days). With belts nothing more than props today, even in WWE, that isn't really a factor you can consider.

[NeanderCarl]

THIS JUST IN: Paul Heyman signs with ROH as a finacial advisor.

BREAKING NEWS: Pay rises all round? >>> Mikey Whipwreck for ROH Champ. Half the roster put on DEATH WATCH??? >>> Click HERE for a photo of Paul Heyman's EXPOSED penis *** > Heyman: "400% increase of unprotected chairshots to the head and anus, please"

[Destor]

I don't deny it at all, but you know the landscape had changed so much between the JCP days and the WCW of, say, 1994 that nobody would really tune in out of familiarity, only to see the star names they recognise (much like TNA fans can do today, with Angle, Sting, Steiner, Nash et al). There was very little resemblance, and the only major argument you can make it for the lineage and history of the NWA title (which actually meant something to fans in those days). With belts nothing more than props today, even in WWE, that isn't really a factor you can consider.
The major argument I can make was the program went from being called NWA to WCW. They had the same audience when they turned over. This was a HUGE leg up.

[NeanderCarl]

Yes, they had the same audience. One which was lagging behind WWE to begin with, and dwindled with the disillusionment as WCW became the second rate WWE rip-off cartoon show in the early 90s.

They beat WWE in the ratings by increasing their audience, not maintaining it. They proved it was achievable, theoretically anybody could do the same.

Now, TNA can never become the cash cow global powerhouse WWE is over a matter of months or even a few years, but I'm sure that they could beat them domestically. I don't think they actually will, I'm not confident they have the vision or knowledge, but they theoretically could because it isn't impossible. Implausible but not impossible.

[Destor]

I'm not sure what we're arguing. I'm arguing that WCW had an advanatge (a larger audience than TNA has now,) while neither TNA or RoH have this, and thus, it's mch less likely for them to "spring up" anytime soon.

Is your argument that it's possible for them to one day pass the WWE? If so, yeah, I agree.

[Fox]

Man, this place sometimes. You guys are seriously arguing about who is bigger between TNA and ROH in a thread about ROH getting a TV offer? Fuck around. And if you win the argument, which you won't, because people almost NEVER back down over petty bullshit, will it really mean anything?


Aaaaaanyways - good for ROH. And I'm pretty sure that they owe Darren Aronofsky for this due to being promoted in his already highly acclaimed movie.

[Destor]

I didn't see anyone arguing who's bigger between TNA and RoH. But other than that you're right.

[NeanderCarl]

Did WCW really have a larger audience in, say, 1993 than TNA does comparitively today, taking into account the overall lower average viewing figures in today's television marketplace? Does WWE have that much of a bigger lead over TNA than it did over WCW? (Ratings wise, there's no question that by simply turning a profit TNA is in a stronger financial position than WCW was up until around 1997... not counting the big Turner wallet, just the finances of the company itself).

I'm not saying it doesn't, I don't have those figures, it would be interesting to compare them by today's standards and know for sure. I'm too lazy to do it, though.

[Destor]

As far as I know, yeah WCW started with hogher viewership. Though I would have no idea ow do back that up.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Just throwing this out, if ROH gets a TV deal - I would expect them to be out of business within a year. Their promotion is not formulated or a television format, and if they try to change it, there base (dvd sales) will be gone.

[Xero]

Just throwing this out, if ROH gets a TV deal - I would expect them to be out of business within a year. Their promotion is not formulated or a television format, and if they try to change it, there base (dvd sales) will be gone.

It's not a national deal (I don't get it, anyway). Unless it's a major network with a large blanket of coverage, DVD sales should be fine, assuming they don't penetrate the big wrestling markets.

[The Optimist]

You shut your whore mouth, I love Mikey Whipwreck.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Maybe the movie 'The Wrestler' had something to do with this?

I definitely think it would have helped. As the movie continues to garner praise, ROH would best play up their connection to the movie as the "artistic" brand of wrestling.

Hell, if they can get Mickey Rourke to make an appearance on their show, they've already gotten a bigger celebrity than almost anyone ever involved with the WWE.

Think of all the other companies that are fighting to get on the map brother. Just because you can't see them doens't mean they aren't there. RoH is accomplishing something. Acting like being no.3 ins't an accomplishment is foolish.

Very true. ROH has taken baby steps, and really grown as a promotion. They've always been smart about expanding, and they took their time getting a PPV deal and have since spent a lot of money on production to get them looking far less like an independent fed (although that is a part of their charm). I hope they don't rush into the first television offer they get, just because it's on the table.

Hmmm, I'd like to see a territory called NWA Parts Unknown, though.

How could they advertise the show venues though? How would you know how to get there?

And Bowfinger is on the TV, Heather Graham is fucking lovely.

I might drink now.


I love you, Carl, but it sounds like you've already started.

There are a few promotions that I'm sure could overtake ROH within a year. You can't say the same about ROH to TNA or TNA to WWE.

It's nothing when it's a situation like that. When ROH is pulling down TNA-like ratings on national TV and running monthly PPVs, we can talk. Until then, ROH is nothing in terms of its success vs the big two.

For the record, I'm not saying ROH ISN'T successful compared to other indy promotions, just that the gap isn't nearly as steep.

See, I'm not sure I agree. ROH is far and away the biggest independent company in the world. It's really got its shit together. They have a PPV deal, and just bought some hi-tech new equipment to increase production values. While a lot of independent promotions are shrinking and cutting back shows, ROH is one that is growing. I mean, who do you really see overtaking them?

Just throwing this out, if ROH gets a TV deal - I would expect them to be out of business within a year. Their promotion is not formulated or a television format, and if they try to change it, there base (dvd sales) will be gone.

A one-hour show does seem very condensed for a ROH show. A two-hour television spot would be much better for them.

[Destor]

Just throwing this out, if ROH gets a TV deal - I would expect them to be out of business within a year. Their promotion is not formulated or a television format, and if they try to change it, there base (dvd sales) will be gone.That's the reason they droppoed Gabe. In the past few months they have been re-working ow they book to create a more TV friendly product.

[The Mackem]

Good for them. TNA showed how quickly you can rise up the wrestling ladder, ROH have been around roughly the same amount of time and seem to be working towards a national level. It's interesting that they both emerged from the ashes of the last wrestling boom and could potentially be involved in the next boom.

[BigDaddyCool]

BTW, I would love to see RoH on tv, and give TNA a run for their money. I just like saying they are defacto #3 because certain people get all pissy.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

If, and it's a big IF, ROH can run decent tv/fan friendly storylines, without sinking to the entertainment crap TNA has, they might last on TV. If they go too far into the entertainment stuff, they could very well lose a chunk of their fanbase, and if they don't make that chunk up with new fans, they'd be screwed.

Also, I think some of the contracts that were signed are up in the summer, so hopefully no one gets picked off by TNA or WWE... Although the only person I really see the WWE trying to take would be Nigel.

I'm also really curious how there schedule will be affected if they do take a tv deal (since they'll need to use shows to tape for tv, and they'll want to put big matches on tv, so how will that affect there dvd sales?)

I also hope they don't do the old Fox Sports thing and show like an hour of a show, then the next hour the next week, etc, basically to slowly run through their dvds on tv.

[BigDaddyCool]

If they run basic story lines I think they could do well.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

I also think that if they do take a tv deal, they should really consider bringing back a secondary title... Yeah, they have their World Title and the Tag belts, but a second single title would be good, as it would instantly make feuds/stories. Plus, it would put more focus on matches that would be good, but don't really have a storyline behind them.

[Destor]

They've needed a secondary title since 2004 at least.

[Xero]

Make it a TV title.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

The latest details on the proposed HDNet/Ring of Honor TV deal is that the show would have a Saturday night time slot, and it is believed that HDNet would cover the production costs for the show. [Credit: Pwinsider.com]

[What Would Kevin Do?]

They've needed a secondary title since 2004 at least.

Well, they had the Pure Title until they got rid of it. Since then, the FIP and NWA titles have masqueraded as secondary titles, but they're gone now it looks like.

[redoneja]

Whatever the case, '09 should be an interesting year for RoH. First show of the year is next Friday night in Virginia. I'll be front row. The announced card looks good:

Manassas, VA- January 16th
Friday, January 16, 2009
Ring Of Honor
Sports Network and Fitness Inc.
January 16th, 2009- 8:00pm belltime
8320 Quarry Road
Manassas, VA 20110

Tickets are available at www.rohwrestling.com, www.tickets.com, or by calling (215) 781-2500.

Non Title Match
ROH World Champion Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black

Special Challenge Match
Bryan Danielson vs. Jimmy Jacobs

Tag Team Grudge Match
The American Wolves of Davey Richards & Eddie Edwards vs. Jay Briscoe & Roderick Strong

Special Attraction
Austin Aries vs. Jerry Lynn

The War Continues
The Necro Butcher vs. Delirious

Tag Team Action
Brent Albright & Erick Stevens vs. Damien Wayne & Chris Escobar

Singles Action
Rhett Titus vs. Sean Denny

[Mr. Nerfect]

That does look like a pretty sweet card. Tyler Black should go over Nigel McGuinness to really cement the idea that he could be the "Next World Champ."

It's fantastic that HDNet would pay the production costs. I think ROH paying for them at this stage is a bit too ambitious.

[Johnny Vegas]

Damn, even when a company is offered a fucking TV deal, some people will not give them credit. I'd like to see some of you be offered something like this. God, some of you need some pussy.

[FourFifty]

I love MB's lizard.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Damn, even when a company is offered a fucking TV deal, some people will not give them credit. I'd like to see some of you be offered something like this. God, some of you need some pussy.

It's the "cool thing" now for people to go against the people doing the "cool thing" and go against people doing the "thing."