What factors make a five star match?

[Anybody Thrilla]

Star ratings are forever tossed around in the wrestling world, and of course they are all subjective, but if you were given the task of placing a star rating on a wrestling match, what factors would you pay attention to? Does a five star match have to be absolutely flawless?

What's an example of a five star match to you? Ric Flair versus Shawn Michaels @ Wrestlemania 24? Bret Hart versus Owen Hart @ Wrestlemania 10? Kurt Angle versus Brock Lesnar @ Wrestlemania 19? Chris Jericho versus Shawn Michaels on the same show?

Also, are there any matches widely considered to be five star matches that you disagree with totally? Conversely, are there any half star stinkers that you think were mat classics? Do you think that Tom Brandi versus Marc Mero is the greatest match of all time? Were you captivated when Max Moon took Reno Riggins to the limit on Superstars?

What about a match like Hulk Hogan versus Andre the Giant at Wrestlemania 3? It is arguably the greatest match of all time, but I wouldn't dare say it was the best match of all time. Same thing with The Rock and Hogan at Wrestlemania 18. What star ratings would you give those matches?

Sorry for all the questions here, but I'm just bouncing around discussion ideas. Feel free to comment on any or all of the above.

[Nark Order]

Well, I can't say exactly what makes a 5 star match but you definitely know one when you see one. Some guys just have perfect chemistry together and it comes together beautifully. Some of my favorite matches ever that I believe to be 5 star classics are:

Owen Hart vs British Bulldog for the first European title
Steve Austin vs Bret Hart @ Wrestlemania 13
Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar in Iron Man on Smackdown
Bret Hart vs Shawn Michaels WM 12 Iron Man
Undertaker vs Batista WM 23
Jericho vs HBK WM

[Jeritron]

If you're talking about Austin vs The Rock at Wrestlemania 17, I wouldn't have much reservation in giving that 5 stars. I'd probably give it 4.5, but it's damn good.

Wrestlemania 3 is one of the greatest MOMENTS of all time. That finish is a 5 star moment, but the match from bell to bell isn't 5 stars.

5 star matches aren't very common. There's only about one or two a year, if that. Sometimes there isn't.
This year, as far as I know, there were two five star matches in my opinion...Taker vs Edge at Mania and Flair vs Michaels at the same event. There were some other great matches. Even Taker vs Edge might only be a 4.5.

[#BROKEN Hasney]

Lots of high-flying "spots"

[Anybody Thrilla]

According to The Dames in EWR, a badly blown spot can prevent a five star rating, which makes sense. I think they also mention great psychology, big spots, crisp bumps....something like that.

Also, I would say that the crowd has a lot to do with it. Two guys in the ring could put on the greatest wrestling match of all time, but if the crowd isn't into it, it just feels awkward.

One more match that I just remembered that I personally think was five stars was Kurt Angle versus The Undertaker. When was that, No Way Out or something? Judgment Day? One of those, a few years ago.

[Nark Order]

Steamboat and Savage also

[Jeritron]

I can't think of very many matches in the past 5 years that have been 5 star that haven't involved Angle or HBM.
Angle vs Taker at No Way Out 06 was 5 stars I think.

[Jeritron]

ABT beat me to it

[Anybody Thrilla]

BTW Dustin, that Bulldog/Owen match was absolutely phenomonal. Is that on the RAW Anniversary DVD? I own it, but I think I lost it.

[Nark Order]

BTW Dustin, that Bulldog/Owen match was absolutely phenomonal. Is that on the RAW Anniversary DVD? I own it, but I think I lost it.

It is indeed. I got that DVD not too long ago and was blown completely away. I had forgotten about it.

[Jeritron]

RVD vs Jerry Lynn matches

[Anybody Thrilla]

I can't think of very many matches in the past 5 years that have been 5 star that haven't involved Angle or HBM.
Angle vs Taker at No Way Out 06 was 5 stars I think.

That match was just clicking on all cylinders, and the crowd was going APESHIT. Beautiful false finishes and just solid execution throughout. I want to watch that right now.

One match that I think was bumped up in the star ratings based on the crowd reaction alone was John Cena versus Rob Van Dam at One Night Stand. Holy shit, that was amazing. The crowd absolutely elevated that match from watchable to fantastic.

[Jeritron]

HBM vs Jericho at WM19 is absolutely a 5 star match, in my mind.

Lots of HBM and Angle over the past few years. There have been a few others, but 90% of bonafide or borderline 5 star matches since 2000 have involved them.

I consider HBM vs Mankind at Mind Games 96 a 5 star match

[Jeritron]

According to Dave Meltzer, there hasn't been a 5 star match in WWE since 1997, which I think is absurd, and is more reflective of his personal opinions on the company and not the matches.
It's no coincidence that his last 5 star match rating was a month before the screwjob and he hasn't made one since.

[Anybody Thrilla]

What about Bret Hart's return match at Survivor Series 96 versus Steve Austin? I remember loving the shit out of that match at the time, but I haven't seen it in about 12 years. Was it as great as I remember?

[Nark Order]

The Rock vs Triple H in that Ladder match for the IC belt at Summerslam was pretty awesome also. Dunno if I can call it 5 stars since I haven't seen it in forever.

[Anybody Thrilla]

According to Dave Meltzer, there hasn't been a 5 star match in WWE since 1997, which I think is absurd, and is more reflective of his personal opinions on the company and not the matches.

What match is he referring to from 1997?

[Jeritron]

Hell in a Cell 1 - Taker HBK. Def a 5 star match, but there have been others since

[Anybody Thrilla]

What about Shawn Michaels and John Cena, either from Wrestlemania 23 or the night after?

[Jeritron]

I know some purists will cry "spotfest", but at least one of the Hardys, E&C ladder matches deserves a 5 star rating. Some of the later ones may have been escalated in intensity, but the original at No Mercy was one of the most exciting and original matches ever. Both teams got a standing ovation the next night on Raw from the crowd. That's something

[Jeritron]

the Cena HBM match was damn good, but I wouldn't call it 5 star. A solid 4 or maybe even a 4.5 but there were some issues

[Nark Order]

Very few tag team matches catch my attention in that way but there was a tag team match a long time ago on RAW that I remember being awesome. Wish I could find it. It was SCSA and HBK vs British Bulldog and Owen Hart. It was so awesome. I remember having it on tape when I was little and watching it all the time.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Oh yeah, didn't Michaels get pissed at Cena for not selling the leg?

[Anybody Thrilla]

I know some purists will cry "spotfest", but at least one of the Hardys, E&C ladder matches deserves a 5 star rating. Some of the later ones may have been escalated in intensity, but the original at No Mercy was one of the most exciting and original matches ever. Both teams got a standing ovation the next night on Raw from the crowd. That's something

Who ever thought that the Terry Invitational Tournament would create one of the most exciting matches in the WWE?

[Jeritron]

First of all it's HBM

[Jeritron]

Stone Cold and HHH vs Jericho and _________ on Raw in 2001. Great fuckin match. One of the only 5 star tv matches

[Jeritron]

Lets get old school though

[Anybody Thrilla]

Shawn Michaels versus The British Bulldog on Saturday Night's Main Event from 1992 is still one of my absolute favorite matches. I can't really put my finger on why, and I don't even think it's a traditional five star match, but in my eyes, it always will be.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Shawn's first Intercontinental title win, btw.

[Jeritron]

There are some matches like that to me as well. Matches I wouldn't call 5 stars, but get the Jeritron 5 Star honor. I dunno, sometimes a match just clicks for different fans.

[Nark Order]

I hear you. The Edge vs Matt Hardy cage match where Matt does the massive leg drop off the cage holds sentimental value to me. I know it isn't really a 5 star match but I love it and could watch it for days. I think cause I kind of saw it as Matt's retribution for alot of things that happened. Dunno. I like it alot.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Doink versus Kamala where Doink offered Kamala an empty gift box and got him counted out is five stars in my eyes as well. :shifty:

[Nark Order]

LOL, I remember that. The look on Kamala's face was pretty great. Doink vs Crush where Doink did the mirror image with the other Doink makes me crack up every time.

[Jeritron]

I've always had a special place in my heart for the Mankind vs The Rock vs Shamrock cage match in 1998. Definitely not a 5 star match by any means, but I mark out for it.

[Jeritron]

I love that match because going into it The Rock was a heel, and Shamrock was a face. During the match the crowd changes their minds and the rest is history

[Anybody Thrilla]

I would also like to mention the Love Her or Leave Her Street Fight between Shane McMahon and Test at Summerslam '99.

[Nark Order]

LOL, ok. This is completely off topic now but I need to mention it. Remember the first blood match between Jericho and Shamrock where Jericho showed up in like 9 layers of clothing and hockey gear?

[Anybody Thrilla]

I VAGUELY remember that. I want to see it again.

[Nark Order]

Yeah, he just beat him with his hockey stick until Shamrock bled internally. Was pretty rofl in a dark kind of way.

[Nark Order]

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[Juan]

RVD vs Jerry Lynn matches

:y:

[Fox]

Christopher Daniels vs. AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe - X Title - Unbreakable 2005
HHH vs. HBM vs. Benoit - World Title - WM 20
HBM vs. Jericho - WMXIX
Rock vs. Austin - WM17
Mysterio Jr. vs. Eddie Guerrero - Halloween Havoc 1997

[Darc]

When I think of a five star match, I think of a match that is virtually flawless. There is nothing either man could have accomplished to make the match better than it was. There are some guys who are capable of putting on a great match regardless of who may be in the opposite corner and most of the time, when you can get 2 or more of those individuals in the same ring for a match the potential for a 5 star match is there. While there are a lot of matches I consider to be great, I don't consider a lot of matches to be five stars worthy. 3 stars is good, 4 stars is great, 5 stars in classic, must see material.

This is my criteria for a 5 star match:

Great Pacing: Let the story unfold at a meaningful, realistic pace, build up to the big moves, and then close it down with a memorable finish.

Strong Psychology: Convince me that these guys either hate each other or they get along, but at that moment, care more about winning than each other. Show me moves that make sense within the context of the match. ex: Target/Protect a body part, Don't go for the big move until you know you can hit it, Surprise us with something new, show you've learned from past matches whether they be yours or someone else's. Sell the big moves as actually being dangerous. Use moves that play on the gimmick of the match.

Time: I think anyone capable of keeping the audience captivated for at least 30 minutes deserves a lot of credit, but I do have a few exceptions for matches around the 20 minute mark.

I usually downgrade matches that involve outside interference. To me, the best matches are mano a mano and the audience should only focus on the parties directly involved

[DaVe]

I tend to believe people rate stuff too hard. People seem to almost never give out a 5-star rating to a match. I just rate them on how much I enjoy it. A match that you enjoyed to no end is a 5 star match in my mind. These long criterion (e.g. above post) addressing how to rate a match as being good just shows that things are taken too seriously. How hard can it be to explain whether you think a match is amazing or not?

[wwe2222]

Shawn's first Intercontinental title win, btw.

I just watched this match yesterday. Always one of my favs. I can still remember watching it live.