I think the American Office has run it's course

[BCWWF]

It's just not very funny anymore. When I watched last night, and the past couple episodes, it just wasn't very interesting. Last night was just a Seinfeld episode with the whole Hilary Swank thing. It really wasn't that funny. Neither was Oscar and Pam arguing about a chair or copy machine.

I don't know, I guess it's just lost it's novelty to me. The characters are stale and not that funny anymore, including Michael, Dwight and Jim, who were the basis of the show's success.

Take last night's cold open. It was so predictable: Dwight finds cord and follows it somewhere ridiculous.

I don't know, I think the show was at it's best when the characters didn't want to be there. Now it's like they all realize Dwight is weird and Michael is stupid and have fun with it, and it's not that fun to watch an Office-wide discussion of Hilary Swank or Chairs vs. Copier.

It's odd to me because on the radio this morning they were talking about how it was hilarious, and somebody's facebook status just now said "I think Hilary Swank is hot." Also, last time I made a similar thread Requiem was pretty hardcore that it was still the goods. I just don't see it.

Maybe it's because I have higher standards for the show after watching the commentaries and other things. But I really just think that the show is going stale and that the recurring inter-office love interests don't advance the plot. What really needs to happen is an influx of new characters.

Anyway.

[Blitz]

That's good.

[IC Champion]

Hillary Swank is hot.

[Kris P Lettus]

Last week with Andy and Dwight battling was the funniest episode I've ever seen.. And this is coming from someone who not only owns every boxset but still watches them regularly..

[ron the dial]

i still enjoy watching it. do i prefer the older episodes? sure, but that's how it is with almost any show that i watch. there are still avenues to be explored, and as long as i'm still entertained, i'll still watch.

[BCWWF]

Just the whole Jim/Pam thing turned me off mostly. The show isn't depressing anymore.

[Blitz]

No good show is ever depressing.

[ron the dial]

it never was depressing. it gave you something to root for because you knew it was going to happen eventually.

[IC Champion]

Last nights cold open was great.

[Jeritron]

The Jim/Pam thing was obviously cool, but you had to get them together eventually or you'd get just as many people, if not more, bitching that they never get together.

I'm sure there'll be more ups and downs to come with that. That just drives the storyline/relationship aspect of the show. They had to go somewhere with it eventually. So they went there. I'm sure they'll go somewhere else with it soon. There'll be twists and turns until the happy ending marriage. I think that's a given. You couldn't just sit and not captialize off the tension forever or people would lose interest.

The comedy and character situations are endless and can continue to be so. I think it's rash to say the show has run it's course because you've been uninterested for a few weeks. It's as popular as ever, and it's still got legs.

Also, it makes fun of the miniscule things of daily life, and stuff in pop culture. In other words, it has a constantly regenerating subject matter.
So maybe the Jim/Pam is letting you down, but it had to eventually if that's what you miss about it. As for the rest of the show and the comedy, I wouldn't worry about it changing anytime soon unless there are cast and writer changes, which I doubt.

[thedamndest]

It's question of whether getting Jim/Pam is going to be the jump the shark moment for the show. On the one hand, they had been teasing Jim/Pam for so long that to wait any longer wouldn't have made much sense. On the other hand, now they need to raise the bar again. Either get married or break up. I don't know. NBC managed to put off Ross and Rachel for what, 10 seasons? Could be that Dwight will become more of a "real person" and the next seasons will deal with him.

I wish they had an end date in mind for this.

[Jeritron]

They should just have her become a slut

[BCWWF]

The comedy and character situations are endless and can continue to be so. I think it's rash to say the show has run it's course because you've been uninterested for a few weeks. It's as popular as ever, and it's still got legs.

Also, it makes fun of the miniscule things of daily life, and stuff in pop culture. In other words, it has a constantly regenerating subject matter.
So maybe the Jim/Pam is letting you down, but it had to eventually if that's what you miss about it. As for the rest of the show and the comedy, I wouldn't worry about it changing anytime soon unless there are cast and writer changes, which I doubt.

No. The thing is that there has to be an end to things. Jim and Pam's courting was exciting and nerve wracking. Now they are together. It's not funny anymore. That's not the only thing. Dwight's character hasn't grown in the past two seasons. Neither has Michael.

Also, the last two weeks for me was the culmination of the show being in an obvious decline since the end of season three. Despite the ratings, do you honestly think the show is as good now as it was in season 2?

Again, the problem is that there is no adversity in the show anymore. Jim and Pam are no longer painfully apart, the company is no longer in trouble, Michael isn't nearly as embarrassing or annoying (or if he is, it's the same he has been forever, so it's lost it's edge), Pam no longer hates her job and now feels purpose, etc. etc.

The closest you have here is the Dwight-Andy-Angela love triangle, which was funny early on but dragged on. Then you kind of have Jim-Pam drama, but not really.

There just needs to be fresh blood again, whether it's somebody leaving or some new people coming in. I would have much rather had that small paper company from last night merge with Dunder Mifflin as opposed to basically the nothing that happened last week. Or have Dwight actually join them as a rival and start taking Dunder Mifflin clients. Just nothing is happening.

For most TV shows, the key is that you create a really ideal setting in the first couple seasons and then every season after that something breaks it up and you yearn for the old days. Season three did it with Jim leaving and then the other office merging with Scranton.

So when I say the Jim/Pam thing, it's not that I wanted them to stay apart forever, but when they finally did get together it would have been better to have Pam leave the show or do something more interesting then come back and be in love with Jim.

[Jeritron]

Well you lost me at the first sentence. "It's not funny anymore" It never was funny, nor was it supposed to be. It was a story thread. The rest of the show's scenarios were comedic and had nothing to do with it. It was working alongside it.
So there you go. It's not funny anymore because it never was.

I just disagree with the rest. I think you're over focusing on the relationship storylines and not just the situations of the show.

[Boondock Saint]

Jim and Pam being apart was getting old. Much prefer them together.

[Fox]

I agree. The show is not as funny as it used to be. In seasons 2 and 3 it was about the smaller office stuff, the jokes were simpler and the characters were more "real." Now everyone is like a caricature of themselves, like they know that they're funny or weird, like they're all in on the idea that this office is cooky and wacky, and they're "okay" with it. The idea before was that these people are miserable in this little office space with a dork, fuckup jackass of a boss. I don't know. It just all feels wrong.

Everyone has there own opinion though.

[BCWWF]

Now everyone is like a caricature of themselves, like they know that they're funny or weird, like they're all in on the idea that this office is cooky and wacky, and they're "okay" with it.

Exactly.

[ron the dial]

it would be interesting to see somebody get fired. and not like roy getting fired but a major player. for any reason that would make sense. it killed me when ryan got brought back in. just didn't seem to make sense to me.

[Requiem]

I have still been cracking up like crazy. Still love this show.

[thedamndest]

it would be interesting to see somebody get fired. and not like roy getting fired but a major player. for any reason that would make sense. it killed me when ryan got brought back in. just didn't seem to make sense to me.

Yeah, they should have written him out entirely. If they wanted to bring him back they should have waited a season and then we could see him re-applying/interviewing/sucking up to Michael to get his job back, but I am with you that he should be gone.

[Fox]

I liked "oh my god this job is so fucking awful I want to kill myself" Ryan far more than "i'm so cocky and bad ass and a cokehead" Ryan

[ron the dial]

i really liked season 4 ryan. i thought that the cocky cokehead was a beautiful transition for his character. it brought another dimension and livened him up, for sure. but this season he just feels stagnant, irrelevant. he's back to the same shit he was up to before the promotion except now he doesn't matter at all. i don't know where his character can go if they want to keep him, but he really should have remained fired.

[Requiem]

Yeah I loved the Ryan storyline. Not so much now that they brought him back, because it didn't really make sense. But the promotion stuff and coke head Ryan was great.

[Lock Jaw]

I agree with all statements by BCWWF and Fox.

I agree that the show needs some new characters.

Season 5 actually started out great with Holly being there.

Past two weeks have been just TERRIBLE. First episodes that had absolutely NO moments that made me laugh.

[BCWWF]

i really liked season 4 ryan. i thought that the cocky cokehead was a beautiful transition for his character. it brought another dimension and livened him up, for sure. but this season he just feels stagnant, irrelevant. he's back to the same shit he was up to before the promotion except now he doesn't matter at all. i don't know where his character can go if they want to keep him, but he really should have remained fired.

I agree with this assessment. This was a very good transition that kept things fresh and built the show. I'm not sure if Ryan is even in the show anymore though. Was he in the last episode during the whole Hilary Swank bit?

[BCWWF]

I agree with all statements by BCWWF and Fox.

I agree that the show needs some new characters.

Season 5 actually started out great with Holly being there.

Past two weeks have been just TERRIBLE. First episodes that had absolutely NO moments that made me laugh.

Right. To be honest I was really surprised when not only did Holly leave, but she didn't come back in some capacity. That's exactly what I mean, the status quo hasn't changed this season. It's just the same characters doing the same things in a way that makes them less funny.

[Requiem]

Wait wait wait.. first people bitch that things changed, and now they're complaining and saying things are stagnant? Make up your minds people.

[BCWWF]

Any TV show has to evolve.

When the complaining was about change, it was because the episodes were too often going outside of the office and doing something extreme, like trips to New York and such. We wanted more inter-office action, which is what the show was about.

They went back to that this season, but the last couple episodes have just been bland. The show takes place in an office but the characters haven't evolved much at all, except what Fox said, now they seem to know they are funny.

[thedamndest]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ae0l5wTwb7s/RmOIruPMENI/AAAAAAAAAC8/86F_dGrDWfc/s320/Roy.bmp

New characters, Mr. S?

[Requiem]

What? Honestly I think some people are bitching just for the sake of bitching, and are themselves losing focus of what this show is about. Jeritron was pretty much spot on with his description of the show's point.

[Jeritron]

They're over-analyzing it.

If it's run it's course, stop watching. If not, I'd just keep watching and stop trying to analyze something that's still in progress. The past few weeks have sucked? Oh wow I guess big changes need to be made. I'm sure the ratings will continue to go up.

[BCWWF]

The last few weeks have been terrible. Season four and the rest of season five have been mediocre at best.

I, like others here, had high expectations after seasons one-two-three, and now we are coming here to discuss what went wrong. After all, it is a discussion board.

[Requiem]

The Dwight vs Andy thing was one of the funniest episodes ever, so I don't know what you are on about.

[ron the dial]

nah man season 4 was an awesome season. i kind of felt the same way you did when watching it as it aired, but when i went back and marathoned the whole season on dvd a lot of the funny that i hadn't initially noticed came out. i have a feeling it will be the same for this season. the deleted scenes really add a lot to every episode, and i count them as "canon" once i have the dvd.

[Jeritron]

I didn't think season 4 was anything close to mediocre. As I remember, it actually gave me some of the biggest laughs.
It was short, but that wasn't their fault.

[Jeritron]

Yea, the whole show is wayyy better on dvd. You can get into it more than you can going from week to week.

[thedamndest]

I tend to find that's true with any show that I pick up on dvd compared to watching on tv though. Watching at my own pace, no commercial, extra features, it's all good.

[BCWWF]

nah man season 4 was an awesome season. i kind of felt the same way you did when watching it as it aired, but when i went back and marathoned the whole season on dvd a lot of the funny that i hadn't initially noticed came out. i have a feeling it will be the same for this season. the deleted scenes really add a lot to every episode, and i count them as "canon" once i have the dvd.

It's definitely better, but still nothing compared to Season 1, 2, 3

[ron the dial]

i disagree completely. there is still a lot of that tension within the company that you were saying is missing this year (a new guy at corporate, a new website that challenges the salesmen, jim being second in charge at the office). the relationship with jim and pam was brand new so that was fun to explore, as well as the break up of dwight and angela. the only thing i really didn't like was putting angela and andy together because it seemed like a move out of story convenience rather than out of actual logic. yes, she tolerates him to a comedic end, but it just doesn't vibe with her character.

in short, season 4 was just as good as seasons 1, 2, and 3. the show began to change that year because a lot of the build ups saw their pay offs, but i feel that only adds to the show.

[Jeritron]

I liked 4 just as much.

[ron the dial]

"the dinner party" is still awkward to watch

[Jeritron]

lol. I'm gonna look down an episode list of season 4 now and pick out some gems. I don't remember what season episodes are from because to be honest I thought seasons 1-4 were all equally great

[ron the dial]

"branch wars" was a solid episode with the following classic line:

"i just cut a chunk out of my penis for nothing." - dwight

[Jeritron]

Which season was the episode where Michael plans to fake his suicide off the roof in?

The part where the test watermelon hits a car, and he tells Dwight "Go have whoever owns that car turn off the alarm, and if it's Stanley call our lawyer and see if they handle hate crimes.", may be the hardest I've ever laughed at a joke on the show.

[ron the dial]

that was season 3, "safety training"

[ron the dial]

dwight, you ignorant slut

[Jeritron]

branch wars was great. I loved Season 4. My only complaint would be the shortened length, which isn't their fault and hardly a quality matter.

[BCWWF]

i disagree completely. there is still a lot of that tension within the company that you were saying is missing this year (a new guy at corporate, a new website that challenges the salesmen, jim being second in charge at the office). the relationship with jim and pam was brand new so that was fun to explore, as well as the break up of dwight and angela. the only thing i really didn't like was putting angela and andy together because it seemed like a move out of story convenience rather than out of actual logic. yes, she tolerates him to a comedic end, but it just doesn't vibe with her character.

in short, season 4 was just as good as seasons 1, 2, and 3. the show began to change that year because a lot of the build ups saw their pay offs, but i feel that only adds to the show.

To be fair, you do make a lot of good points. I think that the true reason season four didn't live up to the first couple for me was because of the writer's strike. Just the short season never allowed all of those storylines you mentioned live up to their full potential.

I'd still say 2-3-1-4-5 is the order of best to worst for me though, with five being the only one that (at this point) I don't really enjoy.

[UmbrellaCorporation]

So I just picked up season 1 of this today.

I saw an episode on TV and it was pretty funny, to be honest. I think the one I saw was Michael trying to relate to his employees or something, and he kept asking questions like "What is something you have done at work that you should not have done?", and everyone like started telling on each other, and one woman was talking about stealing stuff. That was a pretty funny bit to me.

So what can I expect from this series?

[Requiem]

It has a lot of dry humor and little details that will make you laugh like crazy if you pay attention. Basically, it's just about this dysfunctional office. Micheal Scott is the funniest character in any show I've watched.

I'm not really sure what you should expect, except lots of laughing.

[UmbrellaCorporation]

It has a lot of dry humor and little details that will make you laugh like crazy if you pay attention. Basically, it's just about this dysfunctional office. Micheal Scott is the funniest character in any show I've watched.

I'm not really sure what you should expect, except lots of laughing.

Yeah, from that ONE single clip of that episode, I really got the feeling that Michael thinks he's the greatest boss ever, and everyone's constantly laughing at him behind his back pretty much. Gonna start this today. Thanks, Req. :y:

[ron the dial]

that may have been the most ridiculous opening in history. awesome.

[Gertner]

loved season 1-2, season 3 meh, season 4 rebounded.

Kevin is one of the funniest characters ever.

[Jeritron]

This episode is amazing so far

[ron the dial]

best episode in a long time

[Blitz]

Meredith, you've slept with so many guys you're starting to look like one.

[Jeritron]

lol boom roasted

[Blitz]

Absolutely no reason for that retarded movie subplot though. Most transparent guest star device in a long time.

[Jeritron]

Holy shit at next week's preview. Talk about shaking things up.

Awesome episode. Run it's course/not the same MY ASS

[PapaGeorgio]

best episode in a long time

[Jeritron]

Absolutely no reason for that retarded movie subplot though. Most transparent guest star device in a long time.

Yea, but it was funny. The only part that wasn't called for was the end.

[ron the dial]

yeah karen in that preview

[Requiem]

LOL one of the greatest episodes ever. Probably not the best, but still freaking hilarious.

LOL Dwight with the face on. Also.. the cat through the ceiling. Micheal saying Kevin pretty much doesn't have arms or legs anyways because he does nothing. :rofl:

[Destor]

I've never seen a single episode of this show. Not even 5 second in fact.

[Destor]

Actually seems like Tiple A posted a "thats what she says" montage from that show. Thats my exposure to it.

[Triple A]

Yeah tremendous episode. The last couple have been ehhhhhhhhhh. I am glad The Office is back baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[thedamndest]

Thank God for that cushy Superbowl lead-in.

[Requiem]

BARACK IS PRESIDENT. YOU'RE BLACK STANLEY!!!

[Blitz]

THE FIRE IS SHOOTING AT US!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jeritron]

boom roasted

[Lock Jaw]

I did not know there was an episode yesterday. I have now missed it.

[Requiem]

We had to go back and rewatch Dwight with the face on like 5 times. The sound he makes when he turns around had us rolling. :rofl:

lol god just thinking about this episode makes me laugh. So amazing.

[Jeritron]

I did not know there was an episode yesterday. I have now missed it.

Go to nbc.com. If it's not up already, it should be soon and will be up for a few months after that.

[BCWWF]

Last night's, especially Michael's roast at the end, was great. I think my favorite was, "Oscar, you're gay!" It was just perfect because there was no doubt in your mind that it was coming, because it is such an easy and stupid diss, and it is so Michael Scott.

:y:

[BCWWF]

Although, to be the heel of this thread, I will point out that when Andy started singing "Stayin' Alive," you could see Phyllis and everybody else in the background giggling. In the past they would be embarrassed by that.

That is my only real critique though, and it is very minor.

[RBM]

The whole bit with Pam explaining what Jim had told her dad was such cheese and I'll always complain about shit like that. feels like it was written by a lonely teenage girl. The very end where Michael comes out and gets everyone back with a comment and then compliments the group and they clap was the correct amount of heartfelt sentiment.

Beyond that it was an excellent episode. The whole Dwight stabbing the CPR dummy and then wearing it's face was amazing and Dwight is the man.

[Jeritron]

I think you're overanalyzing things again. It was no more cheese than the other seasons you claim to love.

[Lock Jaw]

Just watched the episode. It was indeed pretty amazing, and the best episode in a long time. More than makes up for the past few episodes.

[Fox]

Amazing episode for all of the reasons listed above.

Could've done without the fake Jack Black movie though.

[BCWWF]

Could've done without the fake Jack Black movie though.

The Office has had a tendency in the past to make episodes too long, and though I didn't mind this as much as some people, that part was not very funny or important to the show.

I think a good comedy on TV should be 30 minutes long, and the Office started struggling a bit IMO when they were doing consistent 45 or 60 minute episodes a season or two ago. I'm glad they got back on track.

[Lock Jaw]

Yeah, The Office should never be more than half an hour long.

[IC Champion]

Last nights episode was great.

[ron the dial]

lol this is how i got squeaky fromme

[ron the dial]

wtf "to be continued" of course it's going to be continued

[Jeritron]

I didn't catch tonights episode cuz of the epic Celts/Lakers game. Gonna catch it online

[BCWWF]

OK, I'm able to update my opinion a little more.

Pam is not funny. Any episode based on Pam is boring.

Last night's episode was funny in every scene that didn't involve Pam.

[Lock Jaw]

Last night's episode was a big Holly-Tease. I waited a whole week for nothing.

[ron the dial]

i really enjoyed last night's episode. but i do have to say that pam acting like michael scott was really not that great. not terrible, but it just didn't work for me.

[BCWWF]

It's funny, last night for apparently no reason they showed a rerun, and it was from the beginning of this season when Holly was there and Pam was in New York. Hilarious.

I swear, something changed during that big break around the holidays.

[ron the dial]

yeah they reran 30 rock, too. obviously the reruns had something to do with the office.

[IC Champion]

Last nights episode was great. Stringer Bell FTW

[Requiem]

Yeah last night was good. Wow though.

[Lock Jaw]

Yeah, it was good. Jim finally got some comeuppance.

[IC Champion]

And Michael quit.

[Blitz]

Michael saying "You have no idea how I can fly" broke my heart :'(

[BCWWF]

Last night's episode was great, and I'm excited to see what happens. This one and the Super Bowl episode have been by far the best in 2009 so far.

[BCWWF]

Michael saying "You have no idea how I can fly" broke my heart :'(

I thought it was "You have no idea how high I can fly," no?

[Blitz]

Yes. Left the word out for some reason.

[Fox]

I don't understand why the new supervising manager said Jim's position was "made-up." When he was in Stamford he was the #2, and then when they made the merger Jan said that he would be acting #2 at Scranton, officially overriding Dwight. Then this new guy comes in and says it's a made up position.

[ron the dial]

i was a little confused by that, too, but jim did come right out and say that there were no responsibilities that came with the title so it's a pretty useless title either way.

[thedamndest]

I just watched the episode the other day when Michael "promoted" Dwight from Assistant to the Regional Manager to Assistant Regional Manager. It's in the episode where they fight at Dwight's dojo. Michael tells him that the new job doesn't come with any additional responsibilities or a raise and that they wouldn't be telling anybody in the office as it would be on a trial basis, so it's completely arbitrary, but a big deal to Dwight. There may have been an episode later when Dwight lost that title to Jim somehow, but that would be why it's a made up position.

[ron the dial]

jan did officially make jim michael's number 2 when the branches merged, but jan was pretty incompetent and just went along with what michael said.

but that doesn't make sense because he would have been that one branch manager's number 2 as well so it would have gone past the scranton branch. hmm. maybe it was a useless title there, too.

[BCWWF]

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/mar/15/entertainment/ca-monitor15?tn=z3
Layoffs would bring new life to 'The Office'

Michael Scott's sad-sack demeanor is bringing viewer morale down. A fresh face at the helm just might work wonders.


By Jon Caramanica (http://articles.latimes.com/writers/jon-caramanica)
March 15, 2009 (http://articles.latimes.com/2009/mar/15/entertainment) in print edition D-18
"The Office" is sagging and it is a conundrum to which there is only one real solution: fire Michael Scott. Or Steve Carell (http://topics.latimes.com/entertainment/people/steve-carell). Whatever it takes.

Early on, taking after Ricky Gervais' David Brent on the original British version of the show, Michael was a catalyst for misbehavior and ill will. He was difficult, verging on unlovable; you almost had to shield your eyes watching him, so great was his capacity for awkwardness.

But as the American version has aged, evolving beyond the structure of its predecessor, the expectation that Michael will occupy the same amount of space as he did during the show's earlier seasons, when his gaffes were more gratuitous, has become burdensome.

And exhausted too. Carell can't quite play him as the simp he once was: His shoulders are slightly squarer, his hair slightly better, his uncertainty a little more certain. It's as if the show no longer believes in the character's wacky potential.

Instead, in order to breathe new life into Michael, he has become something that was virtually impossible in earlier seasons, given the naive arrogance that motivated his behavior: sympathetic. Many of the show's recent episodes have been dragged down by Michael's depression in the wake of his split with Holly Flax (Amy Ryan).

Formerly incapable of seriousness, he's become something of a sad sack, ill-equipped to grapple with his pain. Of course, no one around him is much inclined to help. Scorn is central to most of the relationships that the show's other characters have with Michael, and little has happened to change that. He's still incompetent, foolish and blinded by his inanity, but now he's needy too, an emotion that has no place here.

His impromptu lonely-hearts party a couple of weeks ago just felt tragic; he never once subverted his own sadness, the trait of his that has long made his character distinctive, if grating. Typically, the show has been able to rely on Jim (John Krasinski) and Dwight (Rainn Wilson) when Michael became unbearable, but both of those characters have also eroded of late.

Jim has become smug and self-satisfied -- not even his engagement to Pam (Jenna Fischer) redeems him. Where his fourth-wall-breaking looks into the camera were once befuddled, now they're withering, making him less a hapless bystander and more a conspirator. And as Dwight, Wilson has injected a confidence that has made the character less shocking.

Now, when he delivers his absurd pronunciations on his own potency, his eyebrows are raised just a bit, awaiting a response that his deadpan-ness used to trigger automatically. To judge by the last couple of months, all three primary characters could go on an extended work retreat and do little damage to the show -- many of its recent high points have happened at the margins.

Dealing with a weak heart, Stanley (Leslie David Baker) has been more vibrant than ever. "I don't have enough saved to retire," he recently lamented. "I feel like I'm working in my own casket."

The sexual radiance of Angela (Angela Kinsey) upon acquiring a new cat was brilliantly discomfiting, and the scene in which Oscar (Oscar Nuñez) and Kevin (Brian Baumgartner) watched her, via webcam, as she cleaned her new prize pet with her tongue was one of the most inventive and shocking scenes on any sitcom in recent memory.

And the show's most constant love, between Phyllis (Phyllis Smith) and Bob Vance (Robert R. Shafer), continues to provide small pleasures, such as when they abandoned Jim and Pam at lunch to have sex in a restaurant bathroom. Jim and Pam were shocked, but they should have been taking notes.

Not all subplots have been successful. The episode-long debate about Hilary Swank's hotness, and the gruesome film-within-the-show involving a love triangle among Jessica Alba, Jack Black and Cloris Leachman, both felt like stretched-out one-liners from "Family Guy."

Occasionally, though, especially when all the characters get together in one room, the original sparks reemerge. Last month, Michael struggled his way through a particularly vicious roast by his co-workers, but even as it got more and more cruel, it was hard to feel for him.

But at the end of the episode, when he gave them their comeuppance, it was unexpectedly gratifying, the rare moment where a Michael Scott victory was also just, plainly speaking, a victory.

[ron the dial]

i don't know. i feel like replacing michael in any capacity would change the show to the point that it isn't the same show anymore. it just wouldn't feel right. i can't say i'm completely opposed to it, and i do see some of the points that the article makes, but i don't know. i'd rather see the show come to an end with the departure of michael scott than see a new beginning with it.

[IC Champion]

They wont be replacing Michael Scott, not on a permanent basis, I cant see it.

[BCWWF]

I can't say I disagree with that article one bit though. Replacing Michael would make it a completely different show, but Michael, Dwight and Jim aren't what they used to be :-\

[ron the dial]

if they were the exact same characters 5 seasons later it would probably be pretty boring to watch, honestly.

[BCWWF]

That's why they are supposed to get better, not worse. When they get worse the show gets even more boring to watch. Thus, I stand by the name of this title.

ALTHOUGH, seeing what they do with Michael quitting last week could bring something back!

[thedamndest]

The underlying premise of the article seems to be "I prefer season one of The Office to the later seasons because the characters are funnier then." I see where he's coming from to some extent because at certain times the characters do seem to become more like caricatures in later seasons as they up the ante on the pranks. In that regard, I think there have been times when some of the later episodes haven't been as good.

However, The Office also does something which you won't see on According to Jim, and that is make what happens on each show matter week to week. As stupid as something Michael did on this week's episode, it will probably have repercussions on next week's, so in that regard the characters have all developed in response to or played a role in whatever happens around them. The article seems to imply that the actors have changed the characters' mannerisms for no reason, when in fact it is because the characters have changed as the show has progressed. Whether viewers enjoy the change or not, I guess is a personal taste.

I don't see Michael leaving. If he does, it's time to end the show. It would be one of those things where people looked back and said, "Yeah, The Office really got bad when Steve Carrell left."

[IC Champion]

LOL, According to Jim.

I agree with thedamndest pretty much.

[Requiem]

Shut the fuck up BCWWF. Jesus, you are a non-stop whiney bitch in this thread. If you don't like the show anymore, or you don't like the direction it's going, then stop watching it you tard. Quit saying they need to change 'this', or they need to change 'that'. Some of us like the show the way it is. Go find a show that fits your comedic needs, and just stop watching this one if so many things about it bother you so much.

[BCWWF]

I don't think the article is implying that the characters have changed for no reason, but rather that the characters have changed to the point where they aren't as effective as they used to be.

I think the analysis is spot on in many regards. Michael used to be so outrageous and annoying that the humor was based around how awkward he was and how uncomfortable he made other people feel. Toward the middle of this season, the characters seemed to embrace his weirdness, especially Pam for some reason, and it was like "Oh, haha, Michael being Michael," instead of "Oh my God, I can't believe he just did that!"

For me, and probably most, the Office was undoubtably the best in season two, but season three was still very good and season four wasn't bad at all. The beginning of this season was really great as well. In season three, Jim was in the other office and then they merged, disrupting the status quo and introducing new characters like Andy. That's what made season three good.

The current season started out on the right track. Bringing Holly in as somebody who embraced Michael and encouraged him and legitimized the stupid things he did gave a whole new dimension to the character. Then she left and Pam came back, and it's been pretty shitty ever since. The only two episodes that I thought were good since Holly left were the Super Bowl and last week's.

Here's to hoping the Michael quitting cliffhanger from last week sticks around, because that was great. Michael showing his pride for himself to the point where he quits the company is something we haven't seen from his character before. The way to keep a show running is to switch things up just enough that it's new and fresh, but that you can still sense the old.

I think some drastic storyline needs to change. Some ideas? That black guy takes over for Michael and the office is miserable, but then they do things to mess with the new guy. Some of the office is outsourced to a different office? A fire destroys the office and they have to move somewhere uncomfortable while it gets fixed. These sound pretty terrible, but something needs to happen more than "Jim and Pam are happy and play along with Michael's games."

[BCWWF]

Shut the fuck up BCWWF. Jesus, you are a non-stop whiney bitch in this thread. If you don't like the show anymore, or you don't like the direction it's going, then stop watching it you tard. Quit saying they need to change 'this', or they need to change 'that'. Some of us like the show the way it is. Go find a show that fits your comedic needs, and just stop watching this one if so many things about it bother you so much.

What the hell is your problem? Obviously I'm not the only one in this thread who is saying the show has gone downhill, and I posted an article from one of the biggest newspapers in America that shows that opinion is not isolated to this message board at all.

The whole point of this thread is to discuss the show. If you want to make your own thread called "Funny moments from this week's episode of the Office" then go ahead. I won't go in there and complain like you keep doing to this thread. But in case you missed the first three pages, the topic of this thread is discussing whether or not the Office is as good as it used to be.

I don't really get your hostility?

[ron the dial]

For me, and probably most, the Office was undoubtably the best in season two
bold claim. i'd love to see what the real "favorite season of office fans" would be.

[IC Champion]

Season 3 was pretty damned good.

[BCWWF]

Really? You think a majority of people would disagree that season two was the show's best?

I've always pretty much thought it was a consensus the season two was the best, followed by three and one, and then four.

[BCWWF]

Season 3 was pretty damned good.

Season three was brilliant too, I didn't mean to imply that it wasn't. But I always thought season two was one of the rare untouchable seasons of any show.

[IC Champion]

I don't recall exactly what happened in season 2, I do remember season three being amazing.

[Jeritron]

I slacked viewing for the past month or so because of real life inteference. I have a Thurs night class. I just caught up the other night though, and I thought they were hilarious.

Some seasons or episodes may be better than others, but I don't really know what you guys are on about. It's still great in my book, and I think when the show "jumps the shark", we'll all know it.

If you don't like it anymore, stop watching. It can't be that bad if you're still interested. Shows lose viewership and fall into obscurity because people stop watching/caring about them. Not because people start arguing over whether or not things live up to their romanticized perceptions.

P.S., If Michael leaves the show, that will very likely be a jump the shark moment. I doubt it though.

[BCWWF]

The whole "If you don't like it then stop watching it" thing is pretty stupid. It really doesn't even correlate with what we're talking about.

I like the show, I think the writing has been brilliant and I've followed it for the past four years. At this point, why are my only two options to either enjoy the show or stop watching it?

Like some other people in this thread and the LA Times writer, I find the show to be in a slump right now. Some episodes have been funny, but some haven't. If you just want to comment on funny things Dwight did then go ahead and do that, but I am more interested in talking about the writing and the dynamics of the show in this thread, and that's what I'm doing.

[thedamndest]

I don't think the article is implying that the characters have changed for no reason, but rather that the characters have changed to the point where they aren't as effective as they used to be.


There is only a small portion of the article that discusses Jim and Dwight's changes in demeanor. He doesn't really bother to discuss why they have changed. Both characters have gone through so much that it does affect how they look at the camera and address other characters, but I guess the critic doesn't feel they are as good as they used to be. I find those complaints to be arbitrary, but whatever.

[ron the dial]

season 3 is easily my favorite season because of the inclusion of those added characters. it brings out so much more of the characters that i grew to love in season 2. i'm not saying season 3 is superior in any way, just that i prefer to watch it more. i know others who feel the same. i'm not sure where you're gathering this "season 2 is thought to be the best" idea from as i've never gotten that feeling.

[BCWWF]

There is only a small portion of the article that discusses Jim and Dwight's changes in demeanor. He doesn't really bother to discuss why they have changed. Both characters have gone through so much that it does affect how they look at the camera and address other characters, but I guess the critic doesn't feel they are as good as they used to be. I find those complaints to be arbitrary, but whatever.

Do you really think Jim and Pam's engagement has been funny so far? To be honest, I think that storyline and the emphasis put on it is the main reason people like me and the LA Times are saying these things.

[ron the dial]

i don't feel like there has been as much emphasis put on it as you seem to. i'm not sure why that is, but i just don't feel like it's being pushed on me that hard. everyone else is getting time to shine as well. and the moments that have stood out from the engagement have been entertaining. the best jim and pam moments from the series? no, but that's going to be hard to top and i don't expect it. what they're doing with it now is fine as far as i'm concerned.

[BCWWF]

I just think Pam has been completely ruined. She was the forbidden fruit who was always kind of unhappy and restricted, but now she's basically playing along with Micheal's gags, which make them less funny. So not the engagement per say, but Pam in general.

[thedamndest]

Yeah, the engagement is pretty much in the background right now. As WeX said, it was big, and now it's just there while other stories develop. It seems to give Jim and Pam a sense of contentment that neither one of them had at the beginning of the series, and thus the change in both of their demeanors.

Even so, some of the big shows they've done involving Jim and Pam have been "serious" episodes/moments. Jim starts driving to where Pam is, but then freaks out and realizes he doesn't want to be "that guy." It's a comedy show, but it's trying to keep its characters real by giving us moments like that, so no, not all of the Jim/Pam moments have been funny, but they aren't supposed to be.

[ron the dial]

do you propose that pam should have stayed the unhappy forbidden fruit through the entirety of the show? we've already discussed this in this thread. jim and pam had to eventually end up together. it had to happen. how much of the audience would have been outraged had it never happened? pretty much all, i'd imagine. and pam has played along with michael's gags for awhile. because jim does, too. i'm just not seeing where you're coming from.

[thedamndest]

To add to what WeX said: if she and Jim did get together, why would she still stay quiet and saddish at work? That would just make her a bitch, and the audience wants to root for Pam. She has a "new lease on life" so playing the Michael games makes sense.

[Jeritron]

Pam is perfect

[BCWWF]

I think Pam should have gotten a job in New York and left the show in a full-time capacity.

[ron the dial]

that wouldn't have bothered me. i still say the more glaring fuck up was the rehiring of ryan. worst idea they've had on the show. granted, he hasn't been around much, but he's still been around.

[BCWWF]

I was kind of apathetic about that, but it seems like they have scrapped that anyway. He just randomly hasn't been in the past couple episodes.

[BCWWF]

I liked Ryan as the prick New York City suit though :lol:

[BCWWF]

I'm also interested to see what the deal is with the black guy who took over. Does anybody know if he is a full-time character? I hope so.

[ron the dial]

i think he only signed on for the rest of the season. after that, i'm not sure. i guess we'll see where this story arc takes us.

[BCWWF]

Do you think Michael will try to go to Holly's branch?

[ron the dial]

i have no idea how they're going to go about getting those two back together. the pieces of the puzzle are there, i'm just not sure how they're going to put them together. i don't think they'll end up working at the same branch. maybe michael leaving is exactly how he'll end up with holly.

[Jeritron]

If Pam left the show full-time that would have been terrible

[Jeritron]

I wonder if they're considering doing something along the lines of Michael starting his own paper company or something. Seeing him try to get it off the ground, and go about stealing DunderMifflin clients would be gold. Plus his recruits would be interesting. Dwight no doubt. Def an oppurtunity for new characters and shennanigans.
I always liked the idea of following two different offices at the same time.
Maybe Jim lands Michael's job and it puts stress on him and Pam?
I think that all could be pretty interesting and funny.

Put me on the writing team.

[BCWWF]

I know Pam was awesome early on, but I hate her now :mad:

[ron the dial]

pam is still awesome

michael starting his own company is a brilliant idea

[Jeritron]

Imagine him trying to get the loan

[Jeritron]

It just screams possibilities. I can think of billions but I'd prefer getting paid by NBC to write them down

[#1-norm-fan]

I wonder if they're considering doing something along the lines of Michael starting his own paper company or something. Seeing him try to get it off the ground, and go about stealing DunderMifflin clients would be gold.

:shifty:

[ron the dial]

probably my favorite episode of the season last night.

[StingerSplash4Lyf]

thats what she said

[Fox]

But... the Office needs more Pam!

[ron the dial]

LOL back to work shoe bitch!

[thecc]

"Do you want to know what Thailand was like?"
"Yeah."
"It was indescribable."

[BCWWF]

It's back. Tonight second episode (missed the first) was great.

[ron the dial]

first episode was just as good. solid night tonight.

[Boondock Saint]

Both great episodes tonight.

[Kris P Lettus]

Yeah both were really good..

LMFAO @ Dwight and Andy being friends..

:love:

[BCWWF]

Ryan's hair is bleached from the sun.

[thedamndest]

I loved the new opening credits.

[IC Champion]

Yeah both were really good..

LMFAO @ Dwight and Andy being friends..

:love:

LOL @ them playing and singing John Denver on their guitar and banjo.

[Kris P Lettus]

Tonight, besides the SuperBowl episode, was my favorite episode of this season..

I fucking love Andy Bernard..

[IC Champion]

I fucking love Andy Bernard..

[Fox]

"Hello, Dwight..."

"Spin move!"

[IC Champion]

Yeah, after the last 5 weeks or so, it's safe to say anyone who thinks The Office has run it's course should be shot.

[Requiem]

lol the spin move thing caught me offguard and it was so sudden and brief that I couldn't stop laughing for a good 3 or 4 minutes. Had to pause the episode and go back and watch it again.

[IC Champion]

The spin move was great.

[Kris P Lettus]

BCWWF has horrible taste in most things..

[IC Champion]

lol, like scrubs.

[BCWWF]

Or that anybody who thought it was still funny during the middle part of this season is a moron :)

[BCWWF]

lol, like scrubs.

Also, you know that you're one of the only people who doesn't like Scrubs here, right?

[Jeritron]

http://www.tpww.net/forums/image.php?u=5131&dateline=1234760903 (http://www.tpww.net/forums/member.php?u=5131)
From some faggy show like The Office

[IC Champion]

Also, you know that you're one of the only people who doesn't like Scrubs here, right?

Oh, I'm sorry, that makes a terrible show good.

[Jeritron]

the only people who doesn't

[BCWWF]

Oh, I'm sorry, that makes a terrible show good.

What exactly is your intent by continuously mentioning that I like Scrubs and you don't?

Is it supposed to make me look bad?

[IC Champion]

No, it's just a really bad show. I have a hard time believing anyone can like it.

[BCWWF]

So you're basically just a troll.

[IC Champion]

I dont like people knocking the office.

You think everyones a troll. Get over it, Scrubs sucks.

[BCWWF]

No, really I only think you are a troll.

I don't care if you don't like Scrubs. You said it sucks in the Scrubs thread and nobody cared there, either. Get over it.

[IC Champion]

Oh calm down, don't get worked up cause your boy toy Zach Braff isn't funny.

I don't really care what you think of me, so think what you will. You think scrubs is funny, what could you know.

[BCWWF]

I am perfectly calm. And I take no offense to your opinion on a television show, unlike you.

I'd just prefer if you stopped trolling around and trying to use it as an insult constantly.

Again, I'm not sure why you think it will make people think less of me if you say "BCWWF likes Scrubs." It's just trolling, and it's kind of annoying.

[IC Champion]

Then my job was done.

And I'm not trolling you moron.

Someone said you had terrible taste, I said like scrubs, and you went from there. But yes, Im trolling.

[BCWWF]

And if this was the first, or maybe even second or third time you've done it, then you wouldn't be trolling.

[IC Champion]

I don't think you grasp the concept of trolling. My comment was relevant to the discussion at the time.

[IC Champion]

Lets just bury the hatchet and agree to disagree.

[BCWWF]

Fine with me.

[IC Champion]

I didn't even make fun of you, I was poking fun really, you got offended and responded as such.

And yes, make fun of Canada and we will have a beef...I don't recall you insulting Canada though.

[BCWWF]

To be honest I'm quite fond of Canada, but I deleted my last post in the interest of closure.

[IC Champion]

How can I be mad at someone whos fond of Canada.

[ron the dial]

this is definite trolling IC

[IC Champion]

i disagree

[Fox]

Both of you shut up. Office and Scrubs are both awesome.

[thedamndest]

Hey, while hatchets are being buried I just want to jump in and apologize for my dastardly actions yesterday in Casual when I possibly implied that BCWWF had an unnatural love for Stima. Asking if you could receive cell phone reception from inside Stima's ass was not only out of line, but it doesn't make sense. While you probably could receive coverage from inside a man's ass, no grown man could fit within the confines of another's colon. It just wouldn't work. So I'm sorry if my comment crossed any boundries.

[IC Champion]

I love you Theddy. Have my babies.

[BCWWF]

Tonight's episode might have been one of my favorite episodes ever. It wasn't one of the funniest episodes ever — although it was still funny — but it was one of those dynamic episodes that really good comedies have, one of the episodes that invokes pathos other than just humor. Such a dynamic episode.

Curious what happens next, but optimistic. For a second I was thinking David Wallace would see the ass kisser as a fool and replace him with Jim, then bring Michael back as a salesman under Jim. That would have been crazy.

[Kris P Lettus]

It was good...

As always..

[Boondock Saint]

ROFL @ Creed tonight

[Stickman]

I've lost all interest in this show, I watched one episode this season and didnt' even crack a smile at all. I did love the Office, i dunno if it's worth watching anymore.

[Kris P Lettus]

Someone didn't read this thread through, before replying..

[Lock Jaw]

I like how the "official" Office thread is a thread about it not being good anymore.

I've liked the past few weeks though. Beginning of this season and now the end have both been top notch. It was the middle of the season that made me kinda agree with the "run its course" thing for awhile.

[Kris P Lettus]

No..

The "official" Office thread hasn't been used in ages due to BCWWF crying in this thread.. The fans that like the show just started discussing how awesome it is in here to defend it..

Real thread is here (http://www.tpww.net/forums/showthread.php?t=82497)..

[BCWWF]

Since I'm the only person in this thread who felt the way I did during this season (see Stickman, post 193).

And I've made it quite clear that I've really liked the last few episodes again.

[BCWWF]

And Lock Jaw, too. Why is Kris P Lettus so offended that some people thought the middle of this season was pretty bad?

[Kris P Lettus]

I am up in arms at all of this..

[BCWWF]

You're negative repping me and continuously pointing out that I, and only I, said that part of this season was terrible, despite the fact that many people have said the same thing and that I have said the show has been good again for a large part of this thread.

It's just kind of annoying.

[Requiem]

I don't see any reason not to like this season. That's why I find this thread annoying. I think the complaints about it are stupid, and people have explained why the reasons were stupid. There's really no reason to continue this thread, and instead people should start discussing the show in the actual thread that Kris P linked.

[BCWWF]

Well there were obvious complaints about this season, all of which were outlined in the LA Times. It's not like this thread has been me on a solo tirade against all odds trying to destroy the show. I wanted it to get better and it did.

I would have no complaints if this thread was closed, but people keep posting in it and I feel the need to react when necessary.

[Requiem]

I'll stop reacting when it stops increasing my post count.

[BCWWF]

Touche. ;)

[Lock Jaw]

Indeed.

[Kris P Lettus]

You're negative repping me and continuously pointing out that I, and only I, said that part of this season was terrible, despite the fact that many people have said the same thing and that I have said the show has been good again for a large part of this thread.

It's just kind of annoying.

You started this thread, which is why you were mentioned when someone said that this was the "Official" thread..

You know what's more annoying?? That this thread has turned into the "Official" Office thread, even though there already was one..

That is annoying..

[Lock Jaw]

Should have bumped the other one when people started using this as the discussion thread,then.

[Kris P Lettus]

Really don't care, just tired of BCWWF bitching about his bitching..

[Fox]

Great episode last night.

MICHAEL: "So would you like some lemonade? Or both of you. Either or. The combinations are endless."

HOLLY: "Lemonade sounds great."

MICHAEL: "Okay."

AJ (HOLLY'S NEW BF): "I'll have an iced tea, actually."

MICHAEL: "You can go to hell. Haha, no, just kidding... sure, I will get you the best iced tea in the world."

Also Dwight's best friend was amazing. Good stuff. 26th episode this season, which seems like a lot. Wonder how many they're going for?

[Boondock Saint]

That was the season finale.

[Requiem]

lol yeah pretty great season finale

[Fox]

Also,

I'm not too keen on the Jim/Pam pregnancy thing, but I guess it was the next logical continuation of the relationship.

[Kris P Lettus]

Many things to look forward to next season..

-Jim Pam lovechild
-Michael potentially getting into it with Holly's new boyfriend
-plus the hint of an Angela Dwight reunion

Good stuff.. Cant wait for the dvd..