View Full Version : I don't understand... (ECW SPOILERS)
More people watch ECW than TNA, so either way it's a step up.
Plus, anyone who was like "Oh shit, Christian returned and he's on ECW!" will most likely start watching ECW, so either way ratings go up.
BigDaddyCool
02-12-2009, 05:58 PM
Execpt the problem is that they don't really recap ECW on the other 2 shows.
Yeah that match itself was good, I don't see anything wrong with it. Plus, if Christian would've went over on Swagger cleanly, it would've made Swagger look weak.
Seems like you guys are just reacting rather than looking at the big picture here.
Execpt the problem is that they don't really recap ECW on the other 2 shows.
Somehow, I doubt the return of Christian will go unmentioned on either this weeks Smackdown or next weeks Raw. I could be wrong though.
Mr. Nerfect
02-12-2009, 06:00 PM
Good way to miss the mark again noid. ECW has horrible rating. By teasing a big name is coming back to ECW, and do the teasing on Raw and Smackdown as well, so people might actaully give a shit, that would have created ratings instead of rewarding all 3 people that watch ECW on a weekly basis.
It is one thing to have someone just show up on raw or a ppv unannounced to prove anything can happen it is completely different for having someone show up on the c show unannounce, it is saying he is unimportant. Plus he is just forced into a story line that doesn't make any sence.
If people give a shit about Christian, they will probably feel more urgency to tune in now that he's debuted, and they're missing him being awesome. Whether you hype it or not, the end result is that Christian is a part of ECW. People who watch RAW or SmackDown! are going to find out, and the same thing will be achieved. But it just so happens it also rewards viewers of the show, and of the WWE, who tune in loyally each week in hopes that something good will happen.
I do think they should have announced Christian having some sort of role at No Way Out, though. A backstage segment between Theodore Long and Christian were they discussed Christian being at the PPV to scout, or just something so that RAW or SmackDown! fans who missed his return would be coerced into buying the PPV.
Also, how does this program not make sense? Theodore Long signed Christian to an ECW contract because Christian wants to come back and make an impact by winning the ECW Title? Yeah, Christian returning after three years to run around with old rivals makes a lot more sense.
They can do that later, when Christian is both more established and more comfortable.
Mr. Nerfect
02-12-2009, 06:01 PM
Execpt the problem is that they don't really recap ECW on the other 2 shows.
Um, pretty sure they will make an exception this time.
Mr. Nerfect
02-12-2009, 06:02 PM
Yeah that match itself was good, I don't see anything wrong with it. Plus, if Christian would've went over on Swagger cleanly, it would've made Swagger look weak.
Seems like you guys are just reacting rather than looking at the big picture here.
That is exactly it. You and Jeri are spot-on in this thread. :y:
Heyman
02-12-2009, 06:03 PM
Good way to miss the mark again noid. ECW has horrible rating.
By teasing a big name is coming back to ECW, and do the teasing on Raw and Smackdown as well, so people might actaully give a shit, that would have created ratings instead of rewarding all 3 people that watch ECW on a weekly basis.
It is one thing to have someone just show up on raw or a ppv unannounced to prove anything can happen it is completely different for having someone show up on the c show unannounce, it is saying he is unimportant. Plus he is just forced into a story line that doesn't make any sence.
Couldn't agree any more.
Juan - Granted...my Flair introducing Christian scenario would've been somewhat illogical (I even admitted as such), but atleast it would have put Christian over big time.....although admittedly, there MIGHT have been a lukewarm/slightly disappointed crowd reaction if the fans were expecting Flair to introduce a bigger name. Still - my point remains.
It's just mind numbingly stupid to waste Christian's return on ECW. Hopefully - the 3 people that actually watch ECW on a weekly basis are happy. ;)
BigDaddyCool
02-12-2009, 06:04 PM
Somehow, I doubt the return of Christian will go unmentioned on either this weeks Smackdown or next weeks Raw. I could be wrong though.
I just checked the spoilers of Smackdown for friday, it has recaps of other things mentioned, but not ECW or Christian. Now, they might add something, but I'm from missouri, the show me state, so I won't believe it until it happens.
Noid, shut up. You understand nothing about wrestling.
screech
02-12-2009, 06:04 PM
More people watch ECW than TNA, so either way it's a step up.
Plus, anyone who was like "Oh shit, Christian returned and he's on ECW!" will most likely start watching ECW, so either way ratings go up.
Yeah that match itself was good, I don't see anything wrong with it. Plus, if Christian would've went over on Swagger cleanly, it would've made Swagger look weak.
Seems like you guys are just reacting rather than looking at the big picture here.
Couldn't agree any more.
Juan - Granted...my Flair introducing Christian scenario would've been somewhat illogical (I even admitted as such), but atleast it would have put Christian over big time.....although admittedly, there MIGHT have been a lukewarm/slightly disappointed crowd reaction if the fans were expecting Flair to introduce a bigger name. Still - my point remains.
It's just mind numbingly stupid to waste Christian's return on ECW. Hopefully - the 3 people that actually watch ECW on a weekly basis are happy. ;)
i don't get it.
If they would have hyped up his debut in ECW, people would give a shit, but now, since he just randomly debuted on ECW, the people who would have watched ECW for his debut wont watch when they eventually find out he has already debuted???
If you're a Christian fan, you're gonna start watching ECW regardless of whether or not his return was hyped.
Heyman
02-12-2009, 06:09 PM
Let me put it this way:
If it was rumored that The Rock was making a WWE comeback, what should would YOU make him appear on?
-Would it be RAW? If so - why?
-Would it be Smackdown? If so - why?
-Would it be ECW? If so - why?
-Would it be at a PPV? If so -why?
If I had to guess, most 'marketing experts' would say 'RAW' or 'PPV'.
Bottom line? There is just no way a MAJOR superstar would "re-debut" on ECW.
Granted - Christian is not The Rock (or even close), but why basically ADMIT to the public that, "We don't think Christian is a big enough star to automatically re-debut on our #1 flagship show."
As far as I'm concerned, the only 'salvage' point here is if Christian defeats Swagger to become the new ECW champ......and then takes the ECW belt with him to RAW right afterwards.
Granted - Christian is not The Rock (or even close), but why basically ADMIT to the public that, "We don't think Christian is a big enough star to automatically re-debut on our #1 flagship show."
Because the last time we saw Christian he was a mid carder.
Unless you're taking into account his tenure in TNA, which would be ridiculous seeing as how WWE has never even acknowledged TNA in any form.
In what world does a mid carder leave for three years and come back a MAJOR star?
Heyman
02-12-2009, 06:15 PM
i don't get it.
If they would have hyped up his debut in ECW, people would give a shit, but now, since he just randomly debuted on ECW, the people who would have watched ECW for his debut wont watch when they eventually find out he has already debuted???
It has nothing to do with whether people knew about his debut or not. :?:
My whole point is that him being a part of the ECW roster is mind numbingly stupid....when you consider the fact that almost no one watches ECW.
Instead of 3 people watching ECW, perhaps 4 will now watch due to Christian's presence. :roll::nono:
BigDaddyCool
02-12-2009, 06:15 PM
He was feuding with Cena.
He was feuding with Cena.
Yeah, but come on, you can't honestly say he was a main eventer at that point.
Heyman
02-12-2009, 06:18 PM
In what world does a mid carder leave for three years and come back a MAJOR star?
None.
But you're missing my point - why basically admit to the public that 'Christian is average' by making him re-debut on the 'C' show.
Christian was by no means a main-event star, but the guy was very well known and way over.
Although it would've been a stretch, having Flair introduce Christian to a surprised Jericho would've gone over very well.....and atleast would have made Christian look "significant."
p.s. I have a feeling that we might be running around in circles here with this argument. If you don't get what I'm saying, then I'm not really if I can explain myself further here. :-\
It has nothing to do with whether people knew about his debut or not. :?: :
Good way to miss the mark again noid. ECW has horrible rating.
By teasing a big name is coming back to ECW, and do the teasing on Raw and Smackdown as well, so people might actaully give a shit, that would have created ratings instead of rewarding all 3 people that watch ECW on a weekly basis.
It is one thing to have someone just show up on raw or a ppv unannounced to prove anything can happen it is completely different for having someone show up on the c show unannounce, it is saying he is unimportant. Plus he is just forced into a story line that doesn't make any sence.
Couldn't agree any more.
None.
But you're missing my point - why basically admit to the public that 'Christian is average' by making him re-debut on the 'C' show.
I dunno, maybe to establish ECW as more than just a "C show" ??
Probably the same reason they put Matt Hardy in ECW.
I think you're being terribly close minded about this whole thing. You're basically saying that you think this whole thing with Christian sucks just because it's ECW, which is unfair. ECW is a damn good show.
Lock Jaw
02-12-2009, 06:25 PM
This thread is ridiculous.
This thread is ridiculous.
I agree
I bet this is how people who tried to convince other people that the Earth was round and not flat felt. :|
screech
02-12-2009, 06:29 PM
Instead of 3 people watching ECW, perhaps 4 will now watch due to Christian's presence. :roll::nono:
Then I shall be number four.
This thread is ridiculous.
Mr. Nerfect
02-12-2009, 06:32 PM
He was feuding with Cena.
His feud with Cena was so high priority that they never had a one-on-one match, and Christian was soon shipped off to SmackDown! so they could edit out his face pops and put him in a feud that dragged out over the south.
Also, I get what you're trying to say, Heyman, but I just cannot agree. The Rock is going to draw; Christian is not. It's just the way it is. If The Rock were coming back, you'd market him instantly to put him in the biggest position available. Hell, if The Rock came back, he'd probably win the World Heavyweight Championship at the first available PPV.
As you said, Christian is nowhere near that level. If you asked me where I'd debut Christian, I would go with either RAW or ECW for the brand. Not SmackDown!, because it's not live, and people can read up on what they want to regarding what he does. The live atmosphere creates that surprise factor.
ECW seems like a weird choice, but the more I think about it, the more I'd go with it. Mainly because there are so many benefits to putting Christian on ECW:
1) ECW desperately needs a top face. With Matt Hardy leaving, the best three guys they have are probably Finlay, Tommy Dreamer and Evan Bourne. The WWE are going to chew through those guys so fast. Christian adds an adding something to that mix.
2) The talent exchange means he can appear on RAW and SmackDown!, anyway. Think of this as the ultimate way for Christian to get exposure, as well as paying some dues for walking out on the company. Hell, I wouldn't put it past the WWE to have Christian show up and even wrestle a match on RAW next week. No one has said he's going to be locked away and kept exclusively on ECW.
3) It gives ECW a proper WrestleMania program, instead of a retread of a previous angle. It'll be great to actually give ECW a proper match at Mania, won't it?
4) Christian doesn't fade away this route. If he weren't on ECW, I'd maybe expect Christian to face Big Show, or something, at Mania. Not only would that match not have as much heat as Christian going for a "World Title," but the match quality itself would be fairly low. It'd be like how the WWE put Chris Jericho and JBL together for their program, which I still think was horrible.
The other option is that Christian could have represented RAW in the Money in the Bank Ladder Match, or something, which could have been good, but Christian still would have been presented as a mid-carder heading into it. Given that he'd be a fireball off returning (hopefully), it would also pretty much make Christian a lock to win the match, which ruins some of the fun, and means you get another face win in the match. Christian not being in the match frees up a guy like Shelton Benjamin, who could really use the win, to take it.
At least from a creative standpoint, I think inserting Christian into the Land of Extreme is by far the best move the WWE could have done. Especially considering he'll likely only be there until the draft happens, which is like the week after WrestleMania.
Heyman
02-12-2009, 06:36 PM
Honestly,
I truly do hope that Christian's presence on ECW makes a significant amount of more people tune in.
Although I personally don't think it will make that much of a difference, I hope I am wrong.
Time will tell.
p.s. Speaking of Matt Hardy, I wonder how many fans know what Hardy has been up to this past year on ECW? Curiously enough, I also wonder why Matt defected to Smackdown to begin his program with Jeff. Why not have Jeff defect to ECW? After all - a Jeff/Matt feud on ECW would surely make it more than just a 'C' show....right?
Mr. Nerfect
02-12-2009, 06:38 PM
None.
But you're missing my point - why basically admit to the public that 'Christian is average' by making him re-debut on the 'C' show.
Christian was by no means a main-event star, but the guy was very well known and way over.
Although it would've been a stretch, having Flair introduce Christian to a surprised Jericho would've gone over very well.....and atleast would have made Christian look "significant."
p.s. I have a feeling that we might be running around in circles here with this argument. If you don't get what I'm saying, then I'm not really if I can explain myself further here. :-\
I think that Ric Flair/Christian idea steps on others creatively, though. I'm fairly certain the WWE wants Chris Jericho to work with Mickey Rourke, Ric Flair or Stone Cold Steve Austin at WrestleMania. All three of those matches would be much bigger than the WrestleMania repeat of Chris Jericho vs. Christian.
Also, why would Ric Flair go to Christian? Of all people, that Creepy Little Bastard is going to be the guy that Flair chooses to defend the honour of Hall of Famers? You could maybe make it work by having Christian talk about how he went away, won the NWA Championship twice, and now has a respect for tradition, but that means the WWE would have to acknowledge the NWA Championship as something that still exists.
Yeah Christian was over, and yeah he was well known, but I think that is why they are easing him back into ECW, reminding everyone of who he is, letting them get to know this face persona of Christian, and possibly giving him the ECW Championship just over a month into his return with the company. Long-term, I think this is going to work out really well, and that all this doubt will be for nothing.
Mr. Nerfect
02-12-2009, 06:40 PM
Honestly,
I truly do hope that Christian's presence on ECW makes a significant amount of more people tune in.
Although I personally don't think it will make that much of a difference, I hope I am wrong.
Time will tell.
p.s. Speaking of Matt Hardy, I wonder how many fans know what Hardy has been up to this past year on ECW? Curiously enough, I also wonder why Matt defected to Smackdown to begin his program with Jeff. Why not have Jeff defect to ECW? After all - a Jeff/Matt feud on ECW would surely make it more than just a 'C' show....right?
I think the reason they switched Matt Hardy to SmackDown! is for the potential inclusion of Edge and Christian in the feud. They also want to devote a lot of time to it, and that's something that ECW doesn't really have.
Also, I think the plan is to get Matt Hardy closer to the WWE Championship rather than Jeff Hardy closer to the ECW Championship, which is unmistakeably less prestigious than the WWE Title. It's somewhere between the IC/US Titles and the World Titles, which is why Christian is probably going to win it before he moves up to the SmackDown! scene.
p.s. Speaking of Matt Hardy, I wonder how many fans know what Hardy has been up to this past year on ECW? Curiously enough, I also wonder why Matt defected to Smackdown to begin his program with Jeff. Why not have Jeff defect to ECW? After all - a Jeff/Matt feud on ECW would surely make it more than just a 'C' show....right?
Maybe, but I don't think there's enough room for that feud on ECW.
Heyman
02-12-2009, 06:46 PM
Also, I get what you're trying to say, Heyman, but I just cannot agree. The Rock is going to draw; Christian is not. It's just the way it is. If The Rock were coming back, you'd market him instantly to put him in the biggest position available. Hell, if The Rock came back, he'd probably win the World Heavyweight Championship at the first available PPV.
Let me put it this way:
If this was the year 2000 and the wrestling industry was absolutely booming.....and if there were only two shows (i.e. so an 'A' show and a 'B' show), then I'd definitely consider putting Christian on the 'B' show so that more people would tune it.
A) There would be a large enough audience that would care enough to tune in to see a guy like Christan
B) It would help bring more balance to the 'weaker' show....and give it more credibility.
The truth however, is this:
A) It's the year 2009. Not many people care about wrestling.
B) If there's not enough of an audience as it is (in its entirety), then why put a high quality wrestler on a show that hardly anyone will watch anyways? The market just isn't there right now.
Like I said though - I hope I'm wrong.
Given how Jericho is without an opponent right now, this might've been a perfect opportunity to help Christian get over. Having said that, this option is still there.
Destor
02-12-2009, 08:19 PM
I told you all your hopes of Christian returning and not being treated like a goober were nigh impossible.
Don't you start Destor :mad:
I love you Fox, but I've got to argue this:
Christian returning in the Royal Rumble Match -- and losing -- makes him look better than debuting on ECW and beating the Champion there? Christian returning against Santino Marella makes him look better than returning and defeating the ECW Champion? Maybe it works better in your head, but in mine, it is an instant passage into the mid-card for Christian.
Yes, I do think that. Why? BECAUSE IT'S ON RAW. Not only that, but Santino has been a very prevalent and, to an extent, over character on WWE TV for almost two years. The verbal interchange between them would have been classic, and Christian would have gotten more over in that one segment than he did in the two he was in on ECW. Again, his victory over Jack Swagger was nothing more than assisted build-up for Finlay vs. Swagger at No Way Out. In the big picture, he was just the object that Finlay used to get that last one-up before NWO.
A segment on RAW with Santino would have been a single cell dedicated to Christian - not build-up for another match. It puts the importance on Christian and his return, and not only that, but it would have been on the FLAGSHIP SHOW that gets nearly 3X the ratings ECW pulls in.
There are a few problems with the scenario you have suggested, although it is one of the most organic of the Edge/Christian/Matt/Jeff ideas I have read:
1) As you saw, Christian returning got a face pop. Do you really want the genuine interest in Christian to be wasted with him enforcing that he is a bad guy? It's playing against the fans, and it's going to confuse and upset them. Some people will cheer Christian hitting Jeff with a steel chair, and that's not exactly a visual you want. It sends the message that Jeff isn't worth cheering, and that this Christian guy is the good guy. It just makes things more confusing.
Christian is better as a heel. Yes, he does well as a face, but his heel character is far more charismatic than his face. He just plays that cocky arrogance to perfection. And as far as your argument that the people who cheer Christian hitting Jeff makes things "more confusing," let me point out a character named John Cena who gets 50% boos on EVERY SHOW, and is the company's "top face."
The marks are what the company cares about. They will boo the guy who is hitting their beloved Jeff Hardy in the head with a chair.
Christian returning as a face was absolutely the right move. Both from a creative and business standpoint. Hell, while he's hot, Christian might even move some merchandise. He was entertaining as hell on ECW, and he fills a gap in the face line-up that wasn't previously there. Triple H may actually be the closest thing the WWE has to a face with a zinging attitude right now.
That is fine and I understand what you're saying, but once again, Christian is at his best as a heel. Turn MVP face if you need a good face, but use the new guy to his fullest potential because otherwise you are succubusing yourself.
2) In your scenario, you have three heels and one face. Maybe that is intentional, but it seems a little messy to me. Jeff Hardy is the only real character for the fans to attach to, so you're basically dedicating 75% of the angle to guys the fans don't like. That could turn some people off. If they were going to do something with those four men at WrestleMania, then I think a tag team match would have been the best option. That way you have two faces and two heels, and things a lot more even.
I did intentionally keep three heels in the feud and here's why: I believe it is Jeff Hardy's time. The match makes him the ultimate underdog in a way that Cena has never been portrayed - he is against three men who know him very well, one of which is his brother, two of which have wronged him deeply, and one who has the thing he wants more than anything. It is his dilemma - it's his story. And of course, it is he who would be winning the WWE title match at WrestleMania.
3) This idea immediately violates realism, because you do realise you have "the richest prize in the industry" being defended at the 25th anniversary of the Granddaddy of Them All between four former tag team specialists. Jeff Hardy is a guy with two wellness violations to his name; Matt Hardy has never been a "real World Champion" before, and has never really main eventing a PPV; Christian is only a few months off returning to the company after a three-year absence, prior to which he had no main event experience; with Edge probably being the only proven reliable main eventer of the four.
Again, it also leaves Triple H out in the cold. If you think that the WWE Title match at an event like WrestleMania XXV is going to leave out the guy who is banging the boss' daughter, and has been arbitrarily part of a World Title match every WrestleMania he could attend since WrestleMania X-8, for the fucking Hardy Boyz, you're delusional. Unless Triple H was injured with time to plan, there is no way the WWE Title match at WrestleMania is going to feature anyone but Triple H. If you want to include Edge, Christian, Matt Hardy and Jeff Hardy, you better make it a Five-Way.
Any WWE Title match idea for WrestleMania XXV that doesn't involve Triple H should immediately be disqualified for being unrealistic. I'm sorry, but that's just the way it is.
This is a very narrow view point, especially from you. Jeff Hardy has proven he deserves his spot at the top. He is extremely over with the crowd (maybe more so than Triple H), and has been putting on fantastic matches.
I'm not ignorant to the fact that they are not considered "top names in the business." That's why Cena vs. Orton would be the main event of Mania. It would probably go WWE Title 4-Way TLC Match, Undertaker vs. HBM, then the World Title match. That's how WrestleMania usually goes anyways.
As far as Triple H is concerned, he has shown that he is willing to make sacrifices for the company (he's still on Smackdown isn't he?). The time of "oh my god the WWE is the Triple H Show" are passed. He could wrestle in a high profile match against JBL or Big Show. It's just this time. Undertaker has done such things in the past (WM XIX, WM 22) - I don't see why Triple H isn't at that point in his career as well where he will take a backseat to the new guys for one year. It's not like he's going to retire soon. There have been and will be more Manias for Triple H, but this year he could take a backseat. It's not like he's left off the card.
As for MVP and R-Truth being suitable opponents for Jack Swagger? I'll maybe give you MVP. In fact, I would have loved to have seen MVP on ECW as a face. But that being said, Jack Swagger vs. Christian is definitely a bigger match. So even if you think you're taking away from the epicness of the other matches at the event (and with Edge vs. Triple H and Matt Hardy vs. Jeff Hardy, I don't think you are), you're at least bulking up those lower on the card.
Of course Christian vs. Swagger is a "bigger match." It's because Christian is involved in it! But he deserves more than bringing this new guy to a higher level - he deserves someone on his own level. Who is more on his level than his "brother" and the two guys he broke through with? The storyline is built in.
Anyways, this is a dead issue. The deal is done.
Mr. C
02-12-2009, 11:00 PM
But then what for Christian? It's obvious where Christian defeating Jack Swagger goes: Christian wins the ECW Title at WrestleMania. But where does Christian going over Edge lead? Keep in mind that he CANNOT challenge for the WWE Championship at WrestleMania!
Face The Big Show at WrestleMania or represent SmackDown in the Money In The Bank Ladder Match. Both of those matches would be bigger than a repeat of Christian vs. Jack Swagger.
Mr. Nerfect
02-12-2009, 11:32 PM
Yes, I do think that. Why? BECAUSE IT'S ON RAW. Not only that, but Santino has been a very prevalent and, to an extent, over character on WWE TV for almost two years. The verbal interchange between them would have been classic, and Christian would have gotten more over in that one segment than he did in the two he was in on ECW. Again, his victory over Jack Swagger was nothing more than assisted build-up for Finlay vs. Swagger at No Way Out. In the big picture, he was just the object that Finlay used to get that last one-up before NWO.
A segment on RAW with Santino would have been a single cell dedicated to Christian - not build-up for another match. It puts the importance on Christian and his return, and not only that, but it would have been on the FLAGSHIP SHOW that gets nearly 3X the ratings ECW pulls in.
If Christian had returned against Santino Marella, I guarantee just as many people would be bitching. "Christian should be in the main event!" Also, just as many people are going to see the recap videos of Christian returning on RAW, or SmackDown!, or even WWE.com that would have seen it live had it happened on RAW. And I certainly wouldn't rule out the possibility that Christian could even be on RAW come next week.
How about this:
Christian hosts a special edition of The Peep Show on RAW, with the special occasion being that he is just happy to be back, and last night there was a feel good moment he just had to address. His guest is Shawn Michaels, and Christian asks HBK how it feels to be back, and HBK asks Christian the same question. Christian respectfully lets HBK talk about his goals now that he's free of JBL, until JBL himself shows up, tells HBK he got lucky and that he's an asshole for gambling his family's future, and that Christian doesn't belong on RAW and needs to get back to ECW. Cue the set-up of a Shawn Michaels & Christian vs. JBL & Jack Swagger match that night.
Being a main event on ECW is definitely more of an impact than being a mid-carder on RAW. I think that is essentially where we differ, but given that ECW is part of the WWE's universe, I think you just need to accept that they are occasionally going to get a bigger star than Mark Henry.
Also, just so you know: Anyone can see that they were building a Swagger vs. Christian ECW Title match from this. Well, I guess they could also do Finlay vs. Christian, but it was stressed so many times that Christian was there to go after the ECW Champion, whomever it may be. That's not putting over Finlay's program. If anything, Finlay fans should be bitching because Christian took the spotlight off his program.
Christian is better as a heel. Yes, he does well as a face, but his heel character is far more charismatic than his face. He just plays that cocky arrogance to perfection. And as far as your argument that the people who cheer Christian hitting Jeff makes things "more confusing," let me point out a character named John Cena who gets 50% boos on EVERY SHOW, and is the company's "top face."
The marks are what the company cares about. They will boo the guy who is hitting their beloved Jeff Hardy in the head with a chair.
Yeah, Christian is better as a heel. That doesn't mean that the WWE should just take a guy that is hot off returning, and tell the fans they are wrong to be excited he is back, and use him as a heel immediately out the gate. By pushing Christian initially as a face, they have someone on their hands that is fresher, more over and that is probably going to move more merchandise than a lot of their other face characters.
Why not give Christian a chance to run as a face, and try and make some dough for the company? They're testing that out in the smaller waters first, and I don't blame them.
That is fine and I understand what you're saying, but once again, Christian is at his best as a heel. Turn MVP face if you need a good face, but use the new guy to his fullest potential because otherwise you are succubusing yourself.
I think we both agree that the WWE should use Christian to his fullest potential, but I think we have differing views of what that is. I think introducing the guy as a top face of the company, and then building him up to move onto either RAW or SmackDown! in the same position is using him better. You think that having him as a mid-card heel on one of the more crowded shows is a better use of his talents. That's fine. I'm not going to agree with you, though.
I did intentionally keep three heels in the feud and here's why: I believe it is Jeff Hardy's time. The match makes him the ultimate underdog in a way that Cena has never been portrayed - he is against three men who know him very well, one of which is his brother, two of which have wronged him deeply, and one who has the thing he wants more than anything. It is his dilemma - it's his story. And of course, it is he who would be winning the WWE title match at WrestleMania.
I can understand why you did that, but I don't know if I can see it working out. I'm just trying to think of programs like that which have worked. I'm not saying it wouldn't, but normally programs like that have two characters the fans can connect to, incase they reject one, or something goes afoul.
This is a very narrow view point, especially from you. Jeff Hardy has proven he deserves his spot at the top. He is extremely over with the crowd (maybe more so than Triple H), and has been putting on fantastic matches.
I'm not ignorant to the fact that they are not considered "top names in the business." That's why Cena vs. Orton would be the main event of Mania. It would probably go WWE Title 4-Way TLC Match, Undertaker vs. HBM, then the World Title match. That's how WrestleMania usually goes anyways.
I get it wouldn't be headlining, but how does this take into account the Money in the Bank Ladder Match (which is happening, they pretty much advertised it the other week)? Don't you also think this is blowing their load? Also, isn't it ill-advised to put a guy who has just returned to the company in a WrestleMania main event like a month after he's back?
You are aware that this is the 25th anniversary of WrestleMania, don't you? This isn't going to be a Mania the WWE is going to sweep under the rug. They want big buys, and they're not really going to experiment too much with it. I don't think it makes sense to suggest they put forward a main event that consists of four guys, three of whom have pretty much been mid-carders up until last month (a bit of an exaggeration).
Also, if you can keep your load in for a little bit, you can build to that sort of match. What's wrong with doing Edge vs. Triple H, Matt Hardy vs. Jeff Hardy and Swagger vs. Christian, and then do the TLC Match at like fucking Vengeance or something? Those four guys aren't going anywhere.
As far as Triple H is concerned, he has shown that he is willing to make sacrifices for the company (he's still on Smackdown isn't he?). The time of "oh my god the WWE is the Triple H Show" are passed. He could wrestle in a high profile match against JBL or Big Show. It's just this time. Undertaker has done such things in the past (WM XIX, WM 22) - I don't see why Triple H isn't at that point in his career as well where he will take a backseat to the new guys for one year. It's not like he's going to retire soon. There have been and will be more Manias for Triple H, but this year he could take a backseat. It's not like he's left off the card.
But this is WrestleMania XXV. The 25th anniversary of WrestleMania. Sure, Triple H could look at it as just another WrestleMania, but this is a pretty big landmark event for the company. Also, with Triple H being the guy built up to be getting the title shot, do you really think he'll be content to just say "Oh, hi, Christian! What, you're back? Oh, awesome! Here, have my WrestleMania main event slot!" Spoilers for WrestleMania XXV: Triple H wins the WWE Title.
Of course Christian vs. Swagger is a "bigger match." It's because Christian is involved in it! But he deserves more than bringing this new guy to a higher level - he deserves someone on his own level. Who is more on his level than his "brother" and the two guys he broke through with? The storyline is built in.
No, I disagree. In WWE kayfabe, Christian has never been a World Champion. He is a multi-time IC Champion and Tag Team Champion. Jack Swagger is the quickest man to have ever won a World Title in the WWE's history. Granted, it's no acknowledged as being on a lower level than the WWE or World Heavyweight Titles, but it's still above anything Christian has ever held in the WWE.
As a smark, I can appreciate your views on how great Christian is, and what he deserves, but where is that evidence in kayfabe? Also, Christian gets a big smiley face against his name for making ECW look PPV worthy by challenging for the belt (if it wasn't going to be Christian, I had a feeling we were going to get Tommy Dreamer), and helping Swagger get a great showing at his first Mania. The WWE likes this Swagger kid, and he's really quite a good worker for how new he is. Give him a try sometime.
Also, how many times does it need to be said: At WrestleMania, it seems the WWE wants to do Edge vs. Triple H, which I feel they need to do, because there is no other WWE Championship program "big enough" for Mania. And that is the WWE's fault. They really need to elevate some talent. They also seem to want to do the big Matt vs. Jeff singles match at the event. That leaves Christian out in the dark. So you can have him go over Umaga, JBL, or Big Show, or you can have him walk out of the silver anniversary of WrestleMania with a World Championship.
Mr. Nerfect
02-12-2009, 11:37 PM
Face The Big Show at WrestleMania or represent SmackDown in the Money In The Bank Ladder Match. Both of those matches would be bigger than a repeat of Christian vs. Jack Swagger.
Big Show vs. Christian would get lost in the shuffle, I think. WrestleMania is always that way. The title matches and epic special attractions drown out the upper mid-carder fight. Also, the storyline would probably have Big Show going after Christian because Vickie Guerrero told him to, which would put him at odds with Edge. So what you're essentially doing through Show vs. Christian is teasing Christian vs. Edge, which is all well and good, except WrestleMania should have some finality to it.
How are people going to enjoy the probably crappy (from an in-ring perspective) Christian vs. Show program, if it is just buying time until an Edge vs. Christian feud, and people can see that and look past the present to it?
I predicted Christian would be in Money in the Bank prior to ECW this week, and I have no problem with him being in the match, except that it does makes the match prediction. In case you're not following, SPOILERS: Christian wins. That's something I could accept, but then you've got another face winning MITB, and when Christian cashes in, you have the whole "paper champion" thing I'm sure people would complain about.
The way the WWE are going about it, Christian can win the ECW Title from Jack Swagger, and use that to springboard himself to the main event scene of, say, SmackDown!. Shelton Benjamin could then also win MITB (because let's face it, he needs a little help), and can then use that briefcase to win the WWE Title down the track. That's two main eventers set-up, instead of just one.
Funky Fly
02-12-2009, 11:59 PM
Christian = awesome
Christian returning to WWE = awesome
Christian being on ECW = kinda gay (no idea when it's on in Canada, can't see it)
Christian in the ECW Title race this close to 'Mania = awesome
Christian's new theme = extremely gay, gimme Waterproof Blonde any day
Mr. C
02-13-2009, 12:00 AM
The way the WWE are going about it, Christian can win the ECW Title from Jack Swagger, and use that to springboard himself to the main event scene of, say, SmackDown!. Shelton Benjamin could then also win MITB (because let's face it, he needs a little help), and can then use that briefcase to win the WWE Title down the track. That's two main eventers set-up, instead of just one.
Christian could win MITB and then use it to win the WWE Championship.
Jeritron
02-13-2009, 12:05 AM
Again, I'm fine with it. I think everyone, maybe even including myself, has to chill about it though. He's back in WWE under contract. Things will change one way or the other. He's not on ECW forever neccesarrily, and I think it's very naiive and stupid to think they won't eventually use him in fueds with Edge, Jeff, Matt and combinations, not to mention other top talents.
I just can't stand how everyones so proclamative of "oh no how could they" like it's the end. Is being in the ECW title hunt for Wrestlemania THAT bad? It's uppermidcard status.
Nark Order
02-13-2009, 12:35 AM
Noid, I am not reading all that shit. Come on.
Mr. Nerfect
02-13-2009, 01:12 AM
Christian could win MITB and then use it to win the WWE Championship.
Very true. But then you get the whole issue with CM Punk coming back up. MITB works best with a heel winning the title. Someone like Shelton Benjamin could benefit more from it this year.
Mr. Nerfect
02-13-2009, 01:13 AM
Noid, I am not reading all that shit. Come on.
I don't expect you to, nor really care if you do.
screech
02-13-2009, 01:26 AM
I read the rest of your post of course, but this is what I want to focus on right now.
Is being in the ECW title hunt for Wrestlemania THAT bad?
I don't think it is bad at all. As much as people (myself included sometimes) shit on it, it's still the main title of a brand, which makes it a World Title. It will be used as a stepping stone to bigger accomplishments and bigger feuds (i.e. he'll be off ECW soon enough).
Like you and others have said, this isn't the end of the road for Christian. Yes, he's on the 'C' show, but he's the main attraction on that show. And his time there will benefit him in many ways. Just because he wasn't thrown into the "fantasy feuds" right away doesn't mean his return was a waste. Enjoy him being in WWE again and just sit back and watch him kick some ass.
Mr. Nerfect
02-13-2009, 03:04 AM
You're exactly right, screech. And just to add onto that: the "fantasy feuds" are going to happen anyway. You just have to wait a few months before they do. They'll be all the better because of it all.
They should just bring back the Cruiserweight title and have it defended on ECW
:y:. Besides how many Cruiserweights are we left with?
Fabien Barthez
02-13-2009, 06:08 AM
But the question is, Why didn't they put him straight into a programme with everyone in the Main Event, on the flagship show, and push him as the most dominant force to return to WWE since one of the Undertakers reincarnations?
For he is Christian. Anyone with his unrivaled skills and drawing capabilities should receive the fanfare and acknowledgment of say, HBK after age reduction surgery to make him 27 again. Or Steve Austin following a full spine transplant.
How dare they treat the mighty, invaluable Christian like this!!
The amount of defense for the WWE's decision making in this matter is astonishing to me. Have you all forgotten the greatness that is Christian? Do you all really not believe that he deserves a better foot than ECW? (That's a rhetorical question, btw, Noid).
I mean, come on.
Fabien Barthez
02-13-2009, 06:40 AM
Rhetorical questions on a discussion forum? A bit like Vodka at an AA meeting. Has no place, but will tempt everyone who sees it.
First shot is mine.
I haven't forgotten, I just don't think he is great enough to warrent this outrage. Me and Vince McMahon believe this, and nobody could understand wrestling more than me and Vince. :D
And I don't think ECW is the reserve team at all. I think it just needs people, like those here who claim to enjoy actual wrestling to watch it.
I mean, there are still a shitload of people who only watch Raw, and SD has been the better show for well over 6 months now.
Everybody stop acting like this matters, and watch ECW.
And Funk, it's in HQ on YT the day after usually. Problem solved.
Mr. Nerfect
02-13-2009, 07:55 AM
The amount of defense for the WWE's decision making in this matter is astonishing to me. Have you all forgotten the greatness that is Christian? Do you all really not believe that he deserves a better foot than ECW? (That's a rhetorical question, btw, Noid).
I mean, come on.
I remember how great Christian is, no doubt. I marked out for him just this past week on ECW. I marked out for him showing up unexpectedly, and I marked out for his promo-interrupting skills. I also marked out for his return to the ring, and for him defeating the ECW Champion and thus securing a shot at the third World Title of the WWE.
I will also mark out for Christian when he wins said World Championship, and his stock in the company continues to rise.
Mr. Nerfect
02-13-2009, 07:57 AM
They should just bring back the Cruiserweight title and have it defended on ECW
I don't know. I still think that guys like Evan Bourne would be lost in a Cruiserweight Division if it returned. Before he was injured, Bourne was chasing the ECW Championship. It also looks like he could be one of the featured highlights of the Money in the Bank Ladder Match this year. I can't see that happening if he is Cruiserweight Champion, wrestling Jimmy Wang Yang on the pre-show of any other PPV.
BigDaddyCool
02-13-2009, 10:55 AM
What good would hyping Christian's return have actually done?
This question has seriously been bothering me. Not just because it is from noid, but because it ignore the basic function of the business. It ignores the fact that wrestling is indeed a business.
The entire point of wrestling, from the business stand point, is to make money. How do they make money, by promoting matches which in turn sells seats, ppv, and add space. How do you promote a match? The most common way is by promoting the individuals in the match, making people aware that they exist, and making them seem larger than life. Which explains why they make all those video packages, have all those fire works, and spend time writing stories and doing interviews and well basically everything they do. Infact WWE, the actual company really should be looked as a marketing agency, also so should TNA.
So really does anyone disagree with me? Does anyone think wrestling isn't a business and they shouldn't be promoting events, wrestlers, matches, returns and so forth in an effort to drive up ratings, ppv buys, and ticket sales?
Kane Knight
02-13-2009, 10:58 AM
Oh My God. Tell me he didn't actually say that.
BigDaddyCool
02-13-2009, 11:02 AM
Noid really did say that.
Kane Knight
02-13-2009, 11:03 AM
That's like...Wrestling 101.
The Mackem
02-13-2009, 11:04 AM
Yeah obviously, promotion is a big part of any business.
I like the shock value wrestling has at times. It was more prevalant during the Monday Night Wars though but I welcome stuff like the Christian return.
BigDaddyCool
02-13-2009, 11:12 AM
If Christian's return was on Raw, PPV or possible Smackdown it would have been shock value. But no one watches ECW, therefore no one was able to be shocked.
Also, back in the Monday Night Wars period, there was record ratings already, but they had to keep being over the top, big shocks, and suprise returns, so it made sence back then. But in today's era of Cena wins, HHH wins, Undertaker wins, and title matches are only ever on PPV, people aren't expecting a shock every time, they are expecting the same old same old. So for most people Christian's return will slip under the radar.
In a few weeks people will be flipping channels ona tuesday night and see Christian. They will wonder to themselves, when did he come back, I wonder if it was cool. Ah well, it is just Christain. Then flip to the next channel.
BigDaddyCool
02-13-2009, 11:16 AM
BTW, on the bright side, Christian can cut a great promo. Maybe, just maybe he can teach Swagger (who for the record is not good on the mic) how to cut a promo.
Kane Knight
02-13-2009, 11:17 AM
Yeah obviously, promotion is a big part of any business.
I like the shock value wrestling has at times. It was more prevalant during the Monday Night Wars though but I welcome stuff like the Christian return.
The Attitude Era could get away with it because people were watching expecting to be surprised. The MNW period, especially, because it was "Who could one up who."
That still doesn't change the fact that promoting Christian would have easily provided a benefit.
The Mackem
02-13-2009, 11:22 AM
Everybody was shocked the he returned on ECW instead of Raw ;)
The same old gets boring fast and in the age of internet spoilers some of the best bits about wrestling has been lost. Let's face it, the first Nitro starting the war was based on shock value. You could say a lot of what we see today is based on shock value in one way or another, we tune in because we want to see the unexpected or at least a large part of the audience does.
They needed to do something with ECW because it wasn't really taken seriously to the point where a lot of posters were suggesting it isn't 'cannon'. It's being discussed a bit more now, maybe they can continue to build it up.
The Mackem
02-13-2009, 11:24 AM
The Attitude Era could get away with it because people were watching expecting to be surprised. The MNW period, especially, because it was "Who could one up who."
That still doesn't change the fact that promoting Christian would have easily provided a benefit.
Easily could have. All I'm saying is that it's still nice to have an unannounced surprise every once in a while.
BigDaddyCool
02-13-2009, 11:25 AM
If they actaully do something to build it up and tell everyone Christian is back, they won't build anything up.
BigDaddyCool
02-13-2009, 11:25 AM
Easily could have. All I'm saying is that it's still nice to have an unannounced surprise every once in a while.
It would have been nice if they did it on a show people watch.
The Mackem
02-13-2009, 11:27 AM
If they actaully do something to build it up and tell everyone Christian is back, they won't build anything up.
build it up was relating to ECW the brand
The Mackem
02-13-2009, 11:28 AM
It would have been nice if they did it on a show people watch.
There's obviously a reason he is on ECW. To be honest, it could be something stupid like he is being 'punished' for the manner in which he left in some strange way.
The Mackem
02-13-2009, 11:30 AM
Yeah if you don't learn something from a strong promo guy like Christian, there's something wrong.
BigDaddyCool
02-13-2009, 11:31 AM
I still stand by my statement. If they don't mention anything about ECW, or just gloss over it, they won't build interest. Also ECW has a limited viewing area. My point is that Christian by himself isn't particularly special, neither is ECW. So buy just having him show up on ECW unannounced is acknowledging his meritocracy. So this act by itself, won't build up ECW. Now if they start promoting his return and the fact anything can happen on ECW, then I'll shut up. But WWE's past treatment of ECW suggest otherwise.
BigDaddyCool
02-13-2009, 11:32 AM
There's obviously a reason he is on ECW. To be honest, it could be something stupid like he is being 'punished' for the manner in which he left in some strange way.
Yeah, that is another thought.
Yeah, it could definitely be punishment. I never really thought of it that way until now. Good call.
BigDaddyCool
02-13-2009, 12:04 PM
I've actaully considered it being that Vince is a carnie, not a businessman.
Mr. Nerfect
02-13-2009, 12:54 PM
What's the point of this thread? Of course wrestling is a business, and things need to be promoted. That's not to say that every single little thing needs a hype video, though.
The fact that Christian got such a lackluster pop and the lack of proper promotion from the commentators (it was dry at best) showed that, at least for ECW, Christian needed the build.
Now, if he had come in and screwed Swagger in a match, for example, it would have worked and had proper shock value, which is what they were going for and didn't get.
They botched his debut, plain and simple.
By the way, Noid, that was the dumbest thing you've ever said. I'm not even going for the gimmick thing here, that was an ignorant question.
What's the point of this thread? Of course wrestling is a business, and things need to be promoted. That's not to say that every single little thing needs a hype video, though.
A hype video is the least they could have done. There are plenty of other ways to hype someone's debut, even without mentioning them by name.
Kane Knight
02-13-2009, 01:59 PM
Everybody was shocked the he returned on ECW instead of Raw ;)
LOL yeah, but remember, even in wrestling, there are good surprises and bad ones. To borrow a line from George Carlin, "I'm pregnant, you're the father, and I'm going to kill all three of us!"
Remember, WWE's gone as far as to spoil the results of their own championship battle royal dealy to get people to watch. I mean, sometimes they spoil their results by mistake, but this was obviously not so. They thought saying "Angle wins" would get people watching, even though it not only would have been a surprise (barring the spoilers, becase Angle doesn't work on Thursdays), and still a good one.
Having someone appear out of the blue is a treat to regular fans, but if you want to expand, and that's another reason people have suggested they put Christian on ECW, you want to hype the shit out of big events. Ostensibly, they think Christian is hype worthy. QED.
Kane Knight
02-13-2009, 01:59 PM
What's the point of this thread? Of course wrestling is a business, and things need to be promoted. That's not to say that every single little thing needs a hype video, though.
Yeah, and Christian is definitely small time. :)
Kane Knight
02-13-2009, 02:03 PM
I've actaully considered it being that Vince is a carnie, not a businessman.
Josh U-Betcha says:
But we are both thinking like sane business men, not vengeful carines that hire enemies just to humiliate them.
Heyman
02-13-2009, 02:06 PM
Few things:
1) You need to promote and market. There is no way around that.
2) The WWE needs to find a way to market NEW stars...and give them an appropriate push. The WWE's biggest problem is that not a whole lot has changed since 2005. Most wrestlers are pretty much in the same position as they were a few years ago. Jeff Hardy seems to be the only guy that is on the verge of breaking out. Rey Mysterio's main-event push was a severe flop.
Blue Demon
02-13-2009, 02:14 PM
There's obviously a reason he is on ECW. To be honest, it could be something stupid like he is being 'punished' for the manner in which he left in some strange way.
What about simply trying to add some star power to try and increase ratings? Let's face it, Christian is a big enough name that it might make a difference.
BigDaddyCool
02-13-2009, 02:17 PM
What's the point of this thread? Of course wrestling is a business, and things need to be promoted. That's not to say that every single little thing needs a hype video, though.
Yet again proving you don't understand the "business." Sure you can pick bland midcard work horses, but really who can't?
Jeritron
02-13-2009, 02:23 PM
You guys are ridiculous. Honestly. Why can't you leave this in the fuckin other thread BDC? Your antics with KK and Noid are awful.
BigDaddyCool
02-13-2009, 02:23 PM
What about simply trying to add some star power to try and increase ratings? Let's face it, Christian is a big enough name that it might make a difference.
Christian < Kurt Angle. Kurt Angle's name has yet to increase ratings consistantly for TNA. Christian showing up on ECW out of the blue won't do a thing.
BigDaddyCool
02-13-2009, 02:27 PM
You guys are ridiculous. Honestly. Why can't you leave this in the fuckin other thread BDC? Your antics with KK and Noid are awful.
Honestly, this wasn't about noid, and I was hoping we would get into a more general discussion about the working of wrestling, not just this specific event. Now you are taking away from that. Why is it automatically assumed that if I question noid, I'm baiting him or it is "antics."
Also, it isn't just noid, sometime while reading other people's posts, I get the feeling a lot of you forget or fail to realize wrestling is a business that is out to make money by having guys roll around on a mat in their underwear together.
Jeritron
02-13-2009, 02:32 PM
My primary contention in the other thread was that wrestling is a business, and that wasa one of the reasons behind this.
Jeritron
02-13-2009, 02:33 PM
i.e. A ladder rematch between those 4 is a wiser move to put on a random ppv card during the summer, than on a wrestlemania card that performs strong anyways.
BigDaddyCool
02-13-2009, 02:36 PM
Never said you didn't think wrestling wasn't a business.
Kane Knight
02-13-2009, 03:16 PM
Honestly, this wasn't about noid, and I was hoping we would get into a more general discussion about the working of wrestling, not just this specific event. Now you are taking away from that. Why is it automatically assumed that if I question noid, I'm baiting him or it is "antics."
Because arguing with Noid is trolling, but bitching about you is okay. :roll:
No, but seriously, I'm not sure in this case you can remove Noid from the argument. I don't think anyone else would actually ask what benefit there is in promoting someone or something in wrestling.
Destor
02-13-2009, 03:17 PM
I think I may have merged that in the wrong place, but what ever. 2 threads isn't nesscisary.
BigDaddyCool
02-13-2009, 03:31 PM
I hate you destor. I don't merge your threads.
Destor
02-13-2009, 03:45 PM
You don't need another thread to flame Noid. The 14 you have should do.
BigDaddyCool
02-13-2009, 03:49 PM
I want 15, and that thread wasn't purely to flame noid.
Destor
02-13-2009, 03:51 PM
Yes it was and you know it.
Destor
02-13-2009, 03:51 PM
If anyone else made that comment you would have just bitched at them in the one thread. You only made the second one to publicly hummiliate Noid. Simple as.
thedamndest
02-13-2009, 03:52 PM
Christian < Kurt Angle. Kurt Angle's name has yet to increase ratings consistantly for TNA. Christian showing up on ECW out of the blue won't do a thing.
Maybe it will, maybe it will not. It's created a buzz among a large demographic of people who never watch ECW. I see no problem there.
I've contended that he NEEDS to win the ECW title in order to be a viable contender in the potential TLC match. Brother v. brother v. brother v. brother, champion, v. champion v. champion v. champion. Might as well throw him in there and get it out of the way now so he's built up enough in time for the summer. That's good business.
BigDaddyCool
02-13-2009, 03:52 PM
No it wasn't, he just said what a lot of you are thinking. I'm not saying who, cause you jerks sometimes run together and I only really remember noid because he says lots of dumb stuff.
I'm starting to think Destor also doesn't see the forest for the tree.
BigDaddyCool
02-13-2009, 03:54 PM
If anyone else made that comment you would have just bitched at them in the one thread. You only made the second one to publicly hummiliate Noid. Simple as.
Believe whatever you want. I'm being honest.
BigDaddyCool
02-13-2009, 03:55 PM
Maybe it will, maybe it will not. It's created a buzz among a large demographic of people who never watch ECW. I see no problem there.
Do you have proof of this? TPWW isn't a large demographic of people who never watch ECW. Plus we are hardly the average wrestling viewer.
thedamndest
02-13-2009, 04:03 PM
You can google "Christian ECW" and see that people are saying pretty much the same things we are saying here. It's speculative, but then so is saying flat out that it isn't going to help ECW one bit.
BigDaddyCool
02-13-2009, 04:09 PM
I believe the IWC is still a small demographic of the WWE viewers, I am not for sure. Also, I do have history working on my side, Christian going to TNA, which TNA did heavily promote didn't noticably raise rating, ppv buys, or anything for TNA. and besides for Angle v Joe #1, Angle who is a bigger name than Christian didn't do any of those things. It is safe to say Christian coming to ECW, all by himself, won't seriously help ECW.
thedamndest
02-13-2009, 04:12 PM
Maybe it's because TNA is just shitty in general and has a six-sided ring.
BigDaddyCool
02-13-2009, 04:37 PM
Possible. I still have a wait and see attitude while expecting the worst because wrestling simply hasn't proven me wrong lately.
i.e. A ladder rematch between those 4 is a wiser move to put on a random ppv card during the summer, than on a wrestlemania card that performs strong anyways.
This is a good point. But why not have the REMATCH in the Summer instead? That is going to draw big too, especially after an amazing match at WrestleMania.
Not only that, but part of the point is that WrestleMania makes stars into superstars. That's the place to do it. A spectacular TLC match for the WWE Title at WrestleMania, between these four guys, the ones who started the craze back in 2000, would be historic. It would be in the books with the Iron Man Match, Austin vs. HBK, and Benoit/Eddie. And it would get Christian and Matt a huge push going into the new "season" for the WWE after Mania.
And there's nothing wrong with creating more top guys who can actually work and talk in the WWE.
Also this is the longest thread I have ever started.
BigDaddyCool
02-13-2009, 09:46 PM
So, I've watching Smackdown, they haven't mentioned Christian's come back, or ECW at all besides for Miz and Morrison...
So his return to the least watched show wasn't teased, and they haven't followed up by making it look like ECW is must watch tv where anything can happen. So is anyone still under the impression they didn't make a big blunder?
So, I've watching Smackdown, they haven't mentioned Christian's come back, or ECW at all besides for Miz and Morrison...
So his return to the least watched show wasn't teased, and they haven't followed up by making it look like ECW is must watch tv where anything can happen. So is anyone still under the impression they didn't make a big blunder?
I think we'll find out when the rating comes in for next week's ECW.
thedamndest
02-14-2009, 01:39 AM
What is it that all of you were expecting them to do with Christian anyway? Save_us.222?
BigDaddyCool
02-14-2009, 11:09 AM
I think we'll find out when the rating comes in for next week's ECW.
With his return unannounced, and they have yet to recap it on WWE tv, what makes you think anyone will care?
With his return unannounced, and they have yet to recap it on WWE tv, what makes you think anyone will care?
They didn't mention it on Smackdown, but there's still a PPV and a RAW before the next ECW airs.
thedamndest
02-14-2009, 03:32 PM
BDC, are you saying that if the WWE had hyped Christian's return and still put him on ECW then things would be fine in your book?
Londoner
02-14-2009, 03:38 PM
The only problem i had with Christians return, was that he's going for a title that no one cares about anymore,this is why he should've returned on either Raw or Smackdown.
Jackshouse
02-14-2009, 03:43 PM
Christian < Kurt Angle. Kurt Angle's name has yet to increase ratings consistantly for TNA. Christian showing up on ECW out of the blue won't do a thing.
One thing to remember, perhaps, is that there's very little that will consistently improve TNA's ratings because as soon as even the most casual of wrestling fans watches one Impact show, they realise how frustratingly stupid the booking is and never watch again.
McLegend
02-14-2009, 03:47 PM
Yeah Chrisitan isn't going to help the popularity of ECW.
Nothing will.
Ruien
02-14-2009, 05:39 PM
I will be watching next week.
BigDaddyCool
02-15-2009, 04:51 PM
BDC, are you saying that if the WWE had hyped Christian's return and still put him on ECW then things would be fine in your book?
I don't know, maybe. It would certainly give me one less thing to bitch about. I'm not happy about him just showing up on ECW and then WWE ignoring it for the most part. I have no clue to why WWE wouldn't have announced it on Smackdown afterwards, as Smackdown tapings are Tuesdays while ECW is being played. They wouldn't have spoiler it execpt of the live crowd in the arena who couldn't be watching Smackdown and ECW at the same time.
Now if they had announce he was coming, and he got signed to ECW, I don't know, maybe. He is defenately ECW material, but I was hoping he would be in the Edge and Hardies storyline.
Krimzon7
02-15-2009, 05:52 PM
I dunno, the damage was done. I really hope they let Christian do his thing in ECW. I stilll hope Edge and Christian will have some interaction as dual world champs.
In all honesty I've lost a bit of confidence in the direction they went due to Christian not appearing at NWO. I expected a backstage appearance at the very least.
Mind you, Matt Hardy is involved in possibly the biggest angle in WWE at this moment in time and he wasn't on the show either.
Legend Killer
02-16-2009, 07:54 PM
In all honesty I've lost a bit of confidence in the direction they went due to Christian not appearing at NWO. I expected a backstage appearance at the very least.
Mind you, Matt Hardy is involved in possibly the biggest angle in WWE at this moment in time and he wasn't on the show either.
It's the End of Smarxism!!!!
Boondock Saint
02-16-2009, 09:01 PM
I like Christian but I think some people are giving him way too much credit in regards to his star power.
More than the WWE, anyways.
Christian is an amazing talent.
Krimzon7
02-17-2009, 12:26 AM
Christian will be good on ECW.
BigDaddyCool
02-17-2009, 09:34 AM
They mentioned his return twice on Raw. I guess that will work.
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