WKO100 (2008)

[Ultimo Tiger]

Members on Wrestling KO ranked the best 100 workers of the year 2008. This is based on in-ring work only, so you can forget talking ability and drawing. Let me know your thoughts.

100. Chuck Palumbo (5 votes, 174 points)
99. Vladimir Kozlov (5 votes, 177 points)
98. A.J. Styles (6 votes, 178 points)
97. Chris Michaels (4 votes, 182 points)
96. Tamon Honda (4 votes, 183 points)
95. Hector Garza (5 votes, 193 points)
94. Ikuto Hidaka (4 votes, 196 points)
93. Floyd Mayweather, Jr. (6 votes, 198 points)
92. Mascarita Dorada (4 votes, 200 points)
91. Stuka, Jr. (7 votes, 201 points)
90. John Bradshaw Layfield (5 votes, 204 points)
89. Mammoth Sasaki (3 votes, 206 points)
88. Daisuke Sekimoto (4 votes, 207 points)
87. Kensuke Sasaki (4 votes including 1 top 10 vote, 211 points)
86. Tyler Black (4 votes, 212 points)
85. Munenori Sawa (7 votes, 218 points)
84. Ultimo Guerrero (3 votes, 220 points)
83. Mike Quakenbush (6 votes, 221 points)
81. [Tie] Katsuhiko Nakajima (5 votes including 1 top 10 vote, 224 points)
81. [Tie] Fuerza Guerrera (5 votes, 224 points)
80. Masato Tanaka (4 votes, 229 votes)
79. Mistico (4 votes including 1 top 10 vote, 239 points)
78. Kevin Steen (5 votes, 239 points)
77. Yujiro Yamamoto (5 votes, 241 points)
76. C.M. Punk (6 votes, 246 points)
75. Jay Briscoe (7 votes, 251 points)
74. Yoshiaki Fujiwara (7 votes, 264 points)
73. Homicide (7 votes, 260 points)
72. Yoshihiro Takayama (9 votes, 267 points)
71. Fierro (7 votes, 269 points)
70. Montel Vontavious Porter (7 votes, 276 points)
69. Koji Kanemoto (6 votes, 283 points)
68. Satanico (7 votes, 289 points)
66. [Tie] Shu el Guerrero (8 votes, 293 points)
66. [Tie] Super Tiger II (8 votes, 293 points)
65. Yutaka Yoshie (7 votes, 294 points)
64. Bam Bam (7 votes, 301 points)
63. Kenta Kobashi (6 votes, 304 votes)
62. Takeshi Morishima (8 votes, 306 points)
61. Felino (6 votes, 312 points)
60. Arkangel de la Muerte (6 votes, 314 points)
59. Tsuyoshi Kikuchi (7 votes, 315 points)
58. Carl Greco (8 votes, 315 points)
57. The Miz (8 votes, 323 points)
56. Shawn Michaels (7 votes including 1 top 10 vote, 325 points)
55. Ian Rotten (6 votes, 342 points)
54. Bull Pain (6 votes, 348 points)
53. Johnny Saint (10 votes, 349 points)
52. Averno (8 votes, 368 points)
51. John Cena (7 votes, 371 points)
50. Eddie Kingston (7 votes, 375 points)
49. AK-47 (8 votes, 376 points)
48. El Valiente (7 votes, 383 points)
47. Low Ki (8 votes, 397 points)
46. Jun Akiyama (10 votes, 405 points)
45. Pequeño Damian 666 (10 votes, 427 points)
44. John Morrison (10 votes including 1 top 10 vote, 429 points)
43. KENTA (8 votes, 442 points)
42. Chavo Guerrero (9 votes, 444 points)
41. Todd Morton (7 votes including 2 top 5 votes and 1 top 10 vote, 448 points)
40. Hijo del Perro Aguayo (7 votes, 462 points)
39. Super Astro (8 votes, 471 points)
38. Chris Hero (10 votes, 478 points)
37. 911 (8 votes, 496 points)
36. Jeff Hardy (11 votes including 1 top 10 vote, 496 points)
35. Austin Aries (9 votes including 1 top 10 vote, 504 points)
34. Festus (10 votes, 521 points)
33. El Hijo del Santo (8 votes, 522 points)
32. Chris Jericho (9 votes including 1 top 5 and 2 top 10 votes, 524 points)
31. Black Terry (7 votes including 3 top 5 votes, 548 points)
30. Sami Callahan (9 votes, 549 points)
29. Atlantis (11 votes including 1 top 5 vote, 559 points)
28. Villano V (561 points)
27. The Undertaker (12 votes, 574 points)
26. Virus (9 votes including 1 top 10 vote, 579 points)
25. William Regal (10 votes, 583 points)
24. 2 Cold Scorpio (8 votes including 1 top 10 vote, 592 points)
23. Ephesto (9 votes, 592 points)
22. Randy Orton (10 votes including 1 top 10 vote, 593 points)
21. Katsumi Usuda (8 votes including 4 top 10 votes, 597 points)
20. Negro Casas (11 votes including 1 top 5 vote and 1 top 10 vote, 602 points)
19. Solar I (9 votes, 644 points)
18. Mark Henry (10 votes including 1 top 10 vote, 657 points)
17. Necro Butcher (11 votes including 2 top 10 votes, 704 points)
16. Daisuke Ikeda (11 votes including 1 top 5 vote and 1 top 10 vote, 719 points)
15. The Big Show (11 votes, 732 points)
14. Freelance (10 votes including 1 top 5 vote and 1 top 10 vote, 733 points)
13. Cassandro (9 votes including 1 top 5 and 5 top 10 votes, 754 points)
12. Jimmy Jacobs (11 votes including one top 5 and three top 10 votes, 760 points)
11. Mitsuharu Misawa (11 votes including 2 top 10 votes, 777 points)
10. Nigel McGuinness (12 votes including 3 top 5 and 3 top 10 votes, 807 points)
9. Evan Bourne (13 votes including 4 top 10 votes, 809 points)
8. Negro Navarro (10 votes including 2 top 5 votes and 3 top 10 votes, 825 points)
7. Finlay (11 votes including 2 first place votes, 3 top 5 votes, and three top 10 votes, 870 points)
6. Rey Mysterio (13 votes, 883 points)
5. Matt Hardy (13 votes including 2 top 5 votes, 909 votes)
4. Bryan Danielson (13 votes including 5 top 5 votes, 943 points)
3. Alexander Otsuka (12 votes including 2 top 5 votes and 4 top 10 votes, 1009 points)
2. Blue Panther (12 votes including 5 first-place votes and 6 top five votes, 1034 points)
1. Yuki Ishikawa (13 votes including 4 first-place votes and 6 top 5 votes, 1089 points)

[Bad Company]

When the first name I see is Chuck Palumbo, I'm not gonna read the rest of the list.

[Tazz Dan]

So wait. Mark Henry at 18, Big Show at 15, HBK at 56, yet NO HHH or Randy Oton???

B U L L S H I T

[Fabien Barthez]

These lists are notoriously hard to compile. But that one is just weird. i am pretty sure Bradshaw was above AJ Styles.

[Triple Naitch]

How has no one mentioned that Floyd Mayweather is on the list?

[Xero]

When the first name I see is Chuck Palumbo, I'm not gonna read the rest of the list.

I went on to read the second name.

It's Vladimir Kozlov.

This list is a joke.

[Xero]

Wait a fucking minute. Kozlov is on this list but Triple H isn't!?

What the fuck?

[Xero]

So wait. Mark Henry at 18, Big Show at 15, HBK at 56, yet NO HHH or Randy Oton???

B U L L S H I T

Orton's 22.

Triple H not being there is inexcusable, though, considering some of the other names.

(Triple post! Weeee!)

[Hornicane]

Trips is not on the list, but Kozlov AND Mayweather are? :wtf:

[BigDaddyCool]

I'm sure we could do one that would be way better. I just have to figure out how. Probably everyone can submit 10 names and rank them in order. And the order gets points, where like ranked at #1 would get 10 points, #2 would get 9 points and so on. The total up the combined points and bam, we have a list.

[Impact!]

And Styles is 98...

[Impact!]

And no Angle

[Xero]

I'm sure we could do one that would be way better. I just have to figure out how. Probably everyone can submit 10 names and rank them in order. And the order gets points, where like ranked at #1 would get 10 points, #2 would get 9 points and so on. The total up the combined points and bam, we have a list.

I was thinking about doing it myself, but that's an awesome system. That may have been the system they used, or similar.

We should do it.

[RP]

When i see Matt Hardy at #5, i basically stop caring.

[BigDaddyCool]

I was thinking about doing it myself, but that's an awesome system. That may have been the system they used, or similar.

We should do it.

Done.

[BigDaddyCool]

When I have no idea who the top 3 are, I stop caring.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Go Jimmy Jacobs at 12... With that said, that list is utter shit. Mayweather, but no HHH? Necro Butcher ahead of HBK? I mean, the placement of some people makes sense, others just boggle my mind.

[Funky Fly]

You are a god damn embarrassment to Ultimo Dragon fans everywhere. Hang your head in shame.

[Tazz Dan]

Orton's 22.


:$

I'll admit I had stopped caring a bit by there

[CSL]

Nothing I can say that hasn't already been said here

That concludes this fine post from CSL

[thedamndest]

I'm glad 911 is still wrestling.

[Kane86]

This is pig fucking bullshit. Kozlov makes the list are they that stupid? This is wrong in every since. Kane is not on the list. What the fuck is wrong with you people?

[Londoner]

:lol:

[Mr. Nerfect]

The list is not complete horse shit. Some of the placements make perfect sense. Others are just weird.

[Xero]

Noid, rationalize Kozlov being on there and Hunter not.

This list is complete horse shit when you have such a glaring fuck up like that.

[Ultimo Tiger]

Koslov had a bunch of entertaining squashes and a fun match against Festus. Pretty sure he had a watchable match with Khali, as well. Triple H is a worthless fuck.


Here's all the discussion (includes countdown)
http://z11.invisionfree.com/wrestling_ko/index.php?showforum=35

[Triple Naitch]

Is that like the Bizarro TPWW? Mysterio, Finlay, and a bunch of Japanese wrestlers in the top 10. HHH is shit? Kozlov is entertaining in squash matches?

[CSL]

Wow, that place looks worse than UKFF

[Xero]

Koslov had a bunch of entertaining squashes and a fun match against Festus. Pretty sure he had a watchable match with Khali, as well. Triple H is a worthless fuck.

I'm sorry, but that is the dumbest thing I have ever read anyone type.

I'll accept Triple H bashing. I'll even accept Triple H not being on a top 100 like that. But to include Kozlov and - and this is what REALLY gets me if it were a "smark" list - Cena and NOT Triple H?

What the fuck is wrong with you? Even the most jaded WWE hater would put Triple H on a list over fucking Kozlov.

[thedamndest]

Entertaining squashes? Like zucchini?

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Besides no HHH, here is easy proof the list is bullshit, Shawn Michaels was 56... Who ranked higher?

55. Ian Rotten (6 votes, 342 points)
50. Eddie Kingston (7 votes, 375 points)
41. Todd Morton (7 votes including 2 top 5 votes and 1 top 10 vote, 448 points)
37. 911 (8 votes, 496 points)
34. Festus (10 votes, 521 points)
18. Mark Henry (10 votes including 1 top 10 vote, 657 points)
17. Necro Butcher (11 votes including 2 top 10 votes, 704 points)

[Juan]

lol Festus

[Ultimo Tiger]

HBK seems too high, can't think of anyone else on the list who has shittier offense.

55. Ian Rotten (6 votes, 342 points) - Great on the mat, great at selling, good brawler, watch IWA MS
50. Eddie Kingston (7 votes, 375 points) - Very good when not pretending to be Japanese
41. Todd Morton (7 votes including 2 top 5 votes and 1 top 10 vote, 448 points) - Watch XCW
37. 911 (8 votes, 496 points) - Lucha guy, not the ECW guy
34. Festus (10 votes, 521 points) - People dislike Festus?
18. Mark Henry (10 votes including 1 top 10 vote, 657 points) - He's been a great big man wrestler for the last few years. You're telling me you didn't watch his matches against Hardy and Finlay?
17. Necro Butcher (11 votes including 2 top 10 votes, 704 points) - He's been a great brawler for years

[Xero]

LOL, come on.

I'd call sock, but you're just too thorough, creating a shitty forum and all.

You're HONESTLY saying FESTUS is BETTER than Shawn Michaels in the ring? I'm sorry, I just can't buy someone who's that ass-backwards.

[Juan]

This list is poopy

[Hornicane]

People dislike Festus?

[Funky Fly]

Seriously, what? Fuck this thread. :mad:

[Ultimo Tiger]

What's with all the HBK ring rats on this board?

[Juan]

What's with all the HBK ring rats on this board?

HBK mark-ism aside, how can any wrestling fan say that Kozlov and Festus had better matches than Shawn Michaels?? That's ridiculous.

[Xero]

What's with the HBK and Triple H hate?

Scratch that, what's with you blowing Festus and Kozlov?

[Triple Naitch]

He likes them big boys :naughty:

[Xero]

I mean, seriously, I see NO problem with not liking Michaels or Triple H, but to then go and put Kozlov and Festus ahead of them? Something's up your board's ass, clearly.

I want to hear the explanation of Superman Cena being on there ahead of Triple H and Michaels. You want to talk about shitty offense...

[Blitz]

lol this is hilarious. Troll troll is troll.

[thedamndest]

It's such an uber-smark list and then Rey is 6 and Matt Hardy is 5.

[Funky Fly]

What's with all the HBK ring rats on this board?

FUCK YOU! I AM AN ULTIMO DRAGON RING RAT FOR LIFE! :foc:

[What Would Kevin Do?]

HBK seems too high, can't think of anyone else on the list who has shittier offense.

55. Ian Rotten (6 votes, 342 points) - Great on the mat, great at selling, good brawler, watch IWA MS
50. Eddie Kingston (7 votes, 375 points) - Very good when not pretending to be Japanese
41. Todd Morton (7 votes including 2 top 5 votes and 1 top 10 vote, 448 points) - Watch XCW
37. 911 (8 votes, 496 points) - Lucha guy, not the ECW guy
34. Festus (10 votes, 521 points) - People dislike Festus?
18. Mark Henry (10 votes including 1 top 10 vote, 657 points) - He's been a great big man wrestler for the last few years. You're telling me you didn't watch his matches against Hardy and Finlay?
17. Necro Butcher (11 votes including 2 top 10 votes, 704 points) - He's been a great brawler for years

I've seen Ian Rotten. The answer is no. He is not great, period.
Eddie Kingston is one of the most overrated indy wrestlers out there right now.
I've seen Todd MOrton, once again, no.

Festus? Are you fucking kidding me?
Mark Henry isn't bad, but he's not the 18th best wrestler of 2008. No way in hell.

Don't get me started on Necro. Yeah, he's a great "brawler" if you want to call it that. The fact is, he can barely put on a passable match when he isn't fighting all over the arena. Yes, he has his moments, but at the same time, he has moments where he's extremely fucking sloppy too.

The fact is, HBK vs Flair at mania was better than anything the people listed above will probably ever do (minus 911, not because I think he will, but because I've never seen the lucha version.)

Anyway, you posted your little list here last year too, and I believe everyone got into the same argument about HBK. You're not going to win that argument. It's nearly impossible to argue that someone like Festus or Necro Butcher is better than HBK without sounding like some sort of elitist douche' who is desperately trying to justify his opinion and look smart, despite the fact that it's grounded in some sort of bizarre fantasy logic.

[Ultimo Tiger]

"NO no no Period blah blah"

Explain. List specific matches etc.

[thedamndest]

I like the way Festus transforms from a blithering retard into the cornfed colossus at the sound of a bell. You'd never see HBK transform from Michael Hickenbottom into the Showstoppa like that. That's talent you can't teach.

[Vastardikai]

More retarded question: Where's Edge?

You put Ian "my greatest matches involve broken glass taped to my fists" Rotten in there but not Edge? Seriously, you put Ian "Mickie Knuckles, aka my prodigy, broke her leg in a balcony spot at one of my shows just after she signed a big deal with TNA" Rotten in this bullshit list instead of one of the best workers in the 'E, let alone in the main event? Come on.

Also, I actually have no complaints about Finlay being in the top 10. Even at his age he can work circles around most guys.

[Ultimo Tiger]

Yes, we put Ian "I work the mat for 95 percent of the match" Rotten on the list. If Edge didn't work like a diva, I'm sure he would have made the top 100.

[Juan]

Yes, we put Ian "I work the mat for 95 percent of the match" Rotten on the list. If Edge didn't work like a diva, I'm sure he would have made the top 100.

There goes all your creditability (if any), down the toilet. Anyone who can't recognize how great Edge has been is clearly retarded. Please leave.

[thedamndest]

Juan, I think you're pretty terrible for not recognizing how great Floyd Money Mayweather has been throughout the year 2008. Please leave.

[Funky Fly]

Ultimo Tiger, you are a fraud. You don't like Ultimo Dragon at all, do you? :mad:

[Juan]

Juan, I think you're pretty terrible for not recognizing how great Floyd Money Mayweather has been throughout the year 2008. Please leave.

Whatever man! WWE made him look like a huge pussy!

[Hornicane]

I think you're all forgetting the fun match Kozlov had with Festus. This list is 100% legit.

[Xero]

I think we're all missing the scariest part here: this was voted on by an entire board. There's a whole legion of retards at his site.

[Xero]

I still want the Cena explanation, by the way. That one blows my mind.

Not because Cena's terrible, but because how this list was done and where everyone is/isn't.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Let's see... Ian Rotten technically RETIRED in 2007. He wrestles occasionally for fill ins, most notably in the King of the Death Match 2008, where he just did a ton of mat work I'm sure. Plus, he joined in on a beat down on a guy with little experience who he was dumb enough to book. So, once again, Ian Rotten, no. You find me matches from 2008 where he "works the mat" 95% of the time. Go on, do it.

[BigDaddyCool]

This list does not have BDC Approval. I say we ban Ultimo Jackass.

[thedamndest]

I'm upset that 911 isn't ECW 911.

[CSL]

Ultimo Tiger, you are a fraud. You don't like Ultimo Dragon at all, do you? :mad:

He's an Ultimo Tiger fan, a super catch/tech wrestler from Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg who does a bunch of simple heel stuff that people wet themselves over likes he's the second coming of Gorgeous George. The 13 fans at the barns he usually works often get deafened by chants of 'BEST IN THE CHARGOGGAGOGGMANCHAUGGAGOGGCHAUBUNAGUNGAMAUGG!' Look out for him in the 2009 WKO100 when he'll be listed in the top 10 behind such grapplers as El Burrito Plancha and Jim 'The Human German Suplex on the Gym Floor Machine' Smith

[CSL]

You find me matches from 2008 where he "works the mat" 95% of the time. Go on, do it.

This also

[Xero]

lol

[ron the dial]

i personally feel that Ultimo Guerrero did not get his fair shake in this. to put him below HBK is a travesty and frankly i cannot take the list seriously until this injustice is rectified.

[thedamndest]

At least they put the Big Show at 15. Best thing this list has done in its life.

[Funky Fly]

This list does not have BDC Approval. I say we ban Ultimo Jackass.

Only if it's BDC approved.

[Xero]

I think it's safe to say the banning is BDC Approved.

[Ultimo Tiger]

If you don't know everyone in the top 10, you really shouldn't be commenting on the list.

Rotten vs Callihan - mostly matwork

Match link is somewhere around here:
http://z11.invisionfree.com/wrestling_ko/index.php?showforum=35

[BigDaddyCool]

Oh, he is one of those fuckers. "If you don't know every indy piece of shit wrestler, then you aren't a real fan." Get the fuck out of here.

[Mooияakeя™]

lol @ the list.

Sorry, but if you agree with that list in whole, your fucked up and deserve your redundancy.

[Xero]

lol @ the list.

Sorry, but if you agree with that list in whole, your fucked up and deserve your redundancy.

He clearly doesn't agree with it in whole. He said Michaels should be lower.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

If you don't know everyone in the top 10, you really shouldn't be commenting on the list.

Rotten vs Callihan - mostly matwork

Match link is somewhere around here:
http://z11.invisionfree.com/wrestling_ko/index.php?showforum=35

I'm not going to rummage through your forum looking for it. Post it here and I'll watch it.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Oh, he is one of those fuckers. "If you don't know every indy piece of shit wrestler, then you aren't a real fan." Get the fuck out of here.

I second this honestly. It's assholes like you that give the non-elitists who watch independent wrestling a bad name. When you say that 'Oh, you don't know one of these people, so you shouldn't have an opinion on this list", you look like a douche'. When your forum has a thread asking if people who don't watch Lucha Libre should be able to vote, you look like a douche'. It's sad, because for every guy who says something like "Hey, Bryan Danielson is a great wrestler, you should check him out." there is some asshole who says "WHAT?!?! You don't watch at least one Danielson match a week? How can you call yourself a fan of wrestling?"

[BigDaddyCool]

I second this honestly. It's assholes like you that give the non-elitists who watch independent wrestling a bad name. When you say that 'Oh, you don't know one of these people, so you shouldn't have an opinion on this list", you look like a douche'. When your forum has a thread asking if people who don't watch Lucha Libre should be able to vote, you look like a douche'. It's sad, because for every guy who says something like "Hey, Bryan Danielson is a great wrestler, you should check him out." there is some asshole who says "WHAT?!?! You don't watch at least one Danielson match a week? How can you call yourself a fan of wrestling?"

At first I thought you were agreeing with him, then I read your post. But here is a further 2 cents from BDC. I think I know way to much about wrestling, and I think I'm kind of a nerd/elitist...scratch that, I am an elitist. And I have a basic knowledge of who is who in the indy scene because people like Destor and WWKD bring them up. Now nothing against you guys, but it is kinda lame to spend all your free time watching tapes and going to shows. I think I spend way to much time doing it. I'm trying not to knock it, but when you get all elitist about "I've seen every match that has been wrestled this year," you are a fucking douche...well no you aren't Douches at least get some pussy.

[The Fonz]

Wait a minute.

This is an actual list from an actual forum?

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Out of curiosity BDC, how much of my free time do you actually think I spend watching tapes and going to shows?

[Ultimo Tiger]

It takes considerably less time watching an obscure wrestling match than it does sitting through an entire episode of RAW. Remember that, kids.

BigDaddyCool, you strike me as a loathsome rube, not an elitist.

Please watch more wrestling.

Goodbye.

[Juan]

I checked out their forums, and it seems to be filled with lucha, indy, puro, uber-smarks.

[Juan]

(Nothing wrong with lucha, indy and puro, I was just making an observation)

[BigDaddyCool]

Out of curiosity BDC, how much of my free time do you actually think I spend watching tapes and going to shows?

It wasn't directed at you, it was directed at Ultimo Jackass. :roll:

But since you ask, 15 hours a week?

[What Would Kevin Do?]

It wasn't directed at you, it was directed at Ultimo Jackass. :roll:

But since you ask, 15 hours a week?

Seriously??? Wow. Not counting Raw/Smackdown which I dvr through pretty quickly to see if there is anything good, on an average week where I'm not bogged down with school shit, I might watch 1, 2 hours tops. Generally a couple of matches a week... Granted I watched more when I worked third shift and had nothing to do, but even then, I doubt I watched more than 7 hours a week.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

It takes considerably less time watching an obscure wrestling match than it does sitting through an entire episode of RAW. Remember that, kids.

BigDaddyCool, you strike me as a loathsome rube, not an elitist.

Please watch more wrestling.

Goodbye.

You fail to point out though that pound for pound, an episode of RAW is going to be a lot more enjoyable to the average viewer since it has wrestler's they know and storylines they've followed. It's hard for some people just to sit down and watch a random match, especially when they look for more than just "great ring action" in wrestling.

[BigDaddyCool]

Well color me suprised. Well if you don't dvd WWE and TNA and watch every minute that is 7 hours a week.

I typically watch 2.5 hours. I watch most of raw then catch bits and piece of everything else. Or have it on as back ground noise.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Well color me suprised. Well if you don't dvd WWE and TNA and watch every minute that is 7 hours a week.

I typically watch 2.5 hours. I watch most of raw then catch bits and piece of everything else. Or have it on as back ground noise.

If I didn't DVR it, I probably wouldn't watch it period. Well, if I had time I would (WWE, not TNA), but, with my schedule, it's not happening. Half the time if I actually have Smackdown or TNA on, it's on as background knows, and I'm not even watching it.

Honestly, I don't think I could watch 15 hours of wrestling a week if I wanted to. Even when I watched it at work, I'd fall asleep most of the time. Man, I miss having a job where I could do whatever I want, even sleep, and still get paid.

[Destor]

I HAVE to watch at least 6 hours of wrestling at shows I work on weekly. Not counting watching people train. SO yeah, I probably watch like 25 hours of wrestling a week.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

That's a bit different. Watching things live is a lot better.

[Jeritron]

I don't know what you guys are on about, but I agree with this list 100%

[ron the dial]

but Ultimo Guerrero, man! ULTIMO GUERRERO!

[Funky Fly]

Still no word on the BDCA banning.

[Destor]

Don't ban him, he's too much fun. Uber-smarks are hilarious.

[Funky Fly]

Well, someone's gotta get banned. :mad:

[Destor]

Ban Juan.

[Xero]

Don't look in the entrances thread, Funky.

:shifty:

[Destor]

He's Mexican, getting deported is second nature.

[Xero]

Where do you get deported to on the internet?

[Juan]

It's also second nature to sneak my way back in.

[Destor]

WKO forums

[Destor]

It's also second nature to sneak my way back in.
We will build a fence.

[Juan]

Yeah, like that'll work :roll:

[BigDaddyCool]

Still no word on the BDCA banning.

Banning is *BDCA*

[Destor]

It worked in Germany...

[BigDaddyCool]

Ban Juan.

Yeah, him to. That is a *BDCA* banning just cause it would be funny.

[Xero]

Banning is *BDCA*

BDCA - The last word in bannings. :y:

[Juan]

It worked in Germany...

Because Germans are huge fags.

[Destor]

Yeah, him to. That is a *BDCA* banning just cause it would be funny.Nice

[Droford]

I think we're all missing the scariest part here: this was voted on by an entire board. There's a whole legion of retards at his site.

I gotta respect the 1 person that voted for Mini Batista.

Mini Batista > Big Dave Batista

[Funky Fly]

BDC has spoken. So it has been commanded, so it shall be done.

[Destor]

This better meen Juan is on his way out.

[Funky Fly]

He is banned.

[Funky Fly]

...

[Funky Fly]

He might have mocked delicious drinks over in casual, but still... I can't stay mad at him.

[Jeritron]

Wait, you banned Juan?

[Funky Fly]

For all of 5 minutes.

[Juan]

I feel so violated.

I need a cold shower.

[Juan]

Who's the Mexican equivalent of Al Sharpton? Whoever he is, he needs to be informed of this great injustice.

[Destor]

I just took part in a hate crime.

[Destor]

Nice

[Fabien Barthez]

Only cunts believe that a wrestler's value is measured bell to bell.

People like this guy are the reason I have to keep my passion for wrestling secret from the 'real world'.

[Destor]

Only cunts believe that a wrestler's value is measured bell to bell.There's nothing wrong wth this mentality. Beleiving that your opinion is more valid BECAUSE of this fact is the problem. And vice versa. (Lookin at you BDC.)

[Destor]

The problem I'm having is his list doesn't even reflect a workrate metality. It's reflects a mentality that is based soley in putting over people who are "under-rated" in an attempt to look like your on the cutting edge.

[Funky Fly]

IAN ROTTEN IS GREAT BECAUSE EVERYONE SAYS HE SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fabien Barthez]

It really is elitist bollocks to be making a list based on the amount of basic mat wrestling you do in a match, or whether it is puro style or not.

Wrestling is what it is. If you rate wrestlers based on whether they appear to be legitimately kicking the fuck out of each other, watch MMA. If wrestling didn't have the fantasy element, I question whether my interest would be nearly as deep.

[Jeritron]

I think bell to bell one valid way to look at it. Personally, I judge everything but "bell to bell" means more than you give it credit for.
Bell to bell doesn't neccesarily only constitute technical skills, or athleticism. A lot goes into working a match. Charisma and the ability to communicate yourself with the crowd is important during the match, not just outside of it. Someone like Ric Flair or Shawn Michaels is able to work the crowd. This goes for all heels and faces. Things occur during the course of a match that don't begin with a lockup.
There's also the storytelling/psychology department. This also occurs during the course of the match.

[Jeritron]

Jeff and Matt Hardy have gotten over for their "bell to bell" skills. They're not the greatest technical workers in the world, but their work in the ring is what has endeared them. Both can work a crowd, but neither can work the stick. Do you like them?

Not everyone who is strong "bell to bell" is vanilla.

[Destor]

It really is elitist bollocks to be making a list based on the amount of basic mat wrestling you do in a match, or whether it is puro style or not.

Wrestling is what it is. If you rate wrestlers based on whether they appear to be legitimately kicking the fuck out of each other, watch MMA. If wrestling didn't have the fantasy element, I question whether my interest would be nearly as deep.
That is your prefference as an indiviadual. You are no more in the right the right than the bell to bell guy.

Thus the "define wrestler" debate.

[Fabien Barthez]

Erm, Your last 2 posts don't actually make sence when read dest, and in addition, I think I am both guys you are refering to here.

[Destor]

They make perfect sense to me minus the bit where I re-typed that one part by mistake.

[Destor]

Tell me someone gets me.

[ron the dial]

an explanation of Destor's posts: Ultimo Tiger's list makes sense based on the way that he perceives and enjoys wrestling. he's clearly all about independent mat based work (he claims). other people (Fabien Barthez, i will assume) do not enjoy wrestling the same way and determine greatness based on other factors. this does not mean that one man is more right than the other, just that they have different tastes. that is not the problem. the problem is using your criteria of greatness to act as though your opinion is superior to someone else's. which is what Ultimo Tiger is ultimately trying to do here.

[Fabien Barthez]

yeah man, sorry. i re-read the 2nd last one.... im really quite drunk and its 3.30am here. forgive me.

[Destor]

thank you SeXy WeXy

[Jeritron]

These were taken by multiple peoples votes presumably. Either way though, yea it's all "opinion."
Personally, I have a hard time understanding it on any level of logical thinking, but they're entitled to it.

[ron the dial]

multiple people who post on the same board and i'm sure have very similar tastes in style and execution. i'd imagine a list compiled by tpww would be torn apart in a similar manner over there.

[Destor]

Def. Message boards seem to be hive minded.

[Jeritron]

I agree with you. I'm just perplexed by the reasoning

[ron the dial]

i'm ok with their treatment of most ROH guys, though.

[Jeritron]

I didn't even give the list shit. These are the first thoughts I've expressed on the matter

[Jeritron]

I am a bit shocked that there is a gathering of multiple people who find Mark Henry to be among the best, and seemingly have smark tendencies.

[Destor]

I agree the list is insane. By no standerd can I figure out how these guys made this list save trying to be counter culture. It's perposterious by all logic I can fathom. I watch all the guys, most religiously. And I still don't get it. How the the flying fuck are the coming up with this shit? I dunno. But my argument was Fabien was getting an ego trip because he likes wrestling a certian way and likewise he was doing the SAME THING Ultimo Tigger was.

Just trying to point out the hypocricy.

[Jeritron]

Same

[Fabien Barthez]

It's because he work's purely on the canvas and looks a bit like he is actually kicking the shit out of people.....

this is my side of this discussion... we know too much about the truth's of wrestling to agree that someone who works a match in the spirit of 30 years prior is modern-day world class.

Maybe it's over-exposure to the last 20 years of the American product. I don't know...

[Jeritron]

Again, speak for yourself. Too much "we"

[Jeritron]

not enough Wii

[ron the dial]

just because i know how wrestling works doesn't mean that i can't continue to suspend my disbelief. i couldn't be a fan if i didn't. and you can work a match "in the spirit of 30 years prior" while still remaining relevant to today's mat game. look at bryan danielson. i don't mean to sound like a danielson nut hummer, but i guess i am. he does it right, in my opinion.

[Jeritron]

Different tastes and different environments too. What doesn't work in a WWE setting isn't neccesarilly bad. ROH is a different crowd, and a different environment. Therefore, it welcomes different things.
This may change if TV continues to grow there, but as of now its apples and oranges.

I think the live/indy wrestling world and the televised wrestling world (which you are talking about) are different things. I'm not saying either is better or worse.

[Destor]

I dunno Fabian. Just because I know it's a work doesn't mean I don't appreciate the sport side of it. That's like going to a movie not being able to appreciate the action because you know it's all stuntmen.

[Fabien Barthez]

Again, speak for yourself. Too much "we"

first time i said we. And I was referring to fans of predominantly modern US -style Pro Wrestling. I see little evidence on the 10 years of TPWW to suggest that I am as full of shit as I am being made out here.

I don't disagree with the points of you, Dest or Wex, but nobody here would make a similar list, while blindly ignoring even the other factors of in-ring performance that make a wrestler stand out.

[Jeritron]

I'd like to take this oppurtunity to boast that I'm going to ROH in May

[Destor]

:y:

[Destor]

Supporting indy wrestling is the key to the buisness moving foward.

[Jeritron]

I support good times for all

[ron the dial]

I don't disagree with the points of you, Dest or Wex, but nobody here would make a similar list, while blindly ignoring even the other factors of in-ring performance that make a wrestler stand out.
of course nobody here would make a similar list. that list sucks.

and fuck you jeritron. one of these days i'll get off my lazy ass and get back to an ROH show...

[Fabien Barthez]

I mean a list that has such a criteria for its entrant placement. See the lack of a full stop (period) after the word list?

[ron the dial]

don't talk down to me you piece of shit. i know exactly what you meant. in fact, i was agreeing with you.

[Jeritron]

YEA!

[Juan]

This is from a thread at that board....

Originally Posted by Tim Cooke
Inspired from the Misterio thread about the 6/23/05 Rey/Eddy match possibly not being a MOTDC, I want to know what matches people believe at MOTDC's.

Matches that would comprise my top 20 (in chronological order):

04/09/00 - El Hijo del Santo vs. Blue Panther (Monterrey)

07/23/00 - Toshiaki Kawada/Genricho Tenyru vs. Stan Hansen/Kea (All Japan)

04/02/01 - Steve Austin vs. Rock (WWF - WrestleMania 17)

12/07/02 - Paul London vs. Bryan Danielson (ROH)

04/13/03 - Kenta Kobashi vs. Tamon Honda (NOAH)

02/22/04 - Shinya Hashimoto vs. Toshiaki Kawada (All Japan)

05/16/04 - Eddy Guerrero vs. John Bradshaw Layfield (WWE - Judgement Day)

08/13/04 - El Hijo del Santo vs. Perro Aguayo Jr. (CMLL)

08/18/04 - Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Hiroyuki Ito (U-Style)

04/24/05 - Yuki Ishikawa vs. Daisuke Ikeda (Futen)

06/11/05 - Samoa Joe vs. Necro Butcher (IWA-MS)

06/23/05 - Eddy Guerrero vs. Rey Misterio Jr. (WWE - Smackdown)

09/11/05 - Yuki Ishikawa vs. Alexander Otsuka (Big Mouth Loud)

10/01/05 - Samoa Joe vs. Kenta Kobashi (ROH)

07/16/06 - ROH vs. CZW Cage of Death (ROH)

01/28/07 - John Cena vs. Umaga (WWE - Royal Rumble)

10/14/07 - Solar/Super Astro vs. Negro Navarro/Mano Negra (Monterrey)

06/01/08 - Yuki Ishikawa vs. Carl Greco (BattlArts)

07/26/08 - Yuki Ishikawa/Alexander Otsuka/Munenori Sawa vs. Daisuke Ikeda/Katsumi Usuda/Super Tiger II (BattlArts)






Outside consideration:

03/18/01 - Rey Misterio Jr./Billy Kidman vs. Kid Romeo/Chavo Guerrero Jr. (WCW - Greed)

06/02/01 - Gedo/Masato Tanaka vs. Yuki Ishikawa/Mohammad Yone (BattlArts)

09/07/02 - Yoshinari Ogawa vs. Yoshihiro Takayama (NOAH)

09/23/02 - Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Yoshihiro Takayama (NOAH)

04/13/03 - Bryan Danielson vs. Paul London (ROH)

06/14/03 - Paul London vs. AJ Styles (ROH)

04/24/04 - Bryan Danielson vs. Homicide (ROH)

07/23/05 - Jimmy Rave vs. AJ Styles (ROH)

11/02/08 - Bryan Danielson vs. Chris Hero (PWG)

11/22/08 - Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuiness (ROH)

12/09/08 - El Hijo del Santo/Cassandro/Magno vs. Silver King/Mistico de la Juarez/Rubi Gardenia (Todo X Todo)

12/18/08 - Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs. Super Tiger (Showa)

Don't want this to be listmania so I will add some thoughts in a little while.

[thedamndest]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around how that Top 100 uber smark list was assembled and then Rey Rey ended up where he did. It must be awesome to live in 1995. Bring me back some Pogs.

[Jeritron]

No deal. The pogs are mine.

[thedamndest]

I called them.

[Jeritron]

I'll take the Trolls then

[Jeritron]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1340/1189151276_07c4f96784.jpg?v=0

The United Nations of Trolls

[thedamndest]

Let's get matching bowl cuts to seal the deal.

<img src="http://www.geocities.com/rodeodrive/3696/bo07.jpg">

[FourFifty]

When the first name I see is Chuck Palumbo, I'm not gonna read the rest of the list.

So wait. Mark Henry at 18, Big Show at 15, HBK at 56, yet NO HHH or Randy Oton???

B U L L S H I T

Wait a fucking minute. Kozlov is on this list but Triple H isn't!?

What the fuck?

Trips is not on the list, but Kozlov AND Mayweather are? :wtf:

And no Angle

When i see Matt Hardy at #5, i basically stop caring.

What's with the HBK and Triple H hate?

Scratch that, what's with you blowing Festus and Kozlov?

Everything that needed to be said about this list was said on page 1.

[FourFifty]

The list is not complete horse shit. Some of the placements make perfect sense. Others are just weird.

This, my fellow poster, is why people think you're bat shit crazy.

[thedamndest]

I think that's why we're now posting trolls and bowl cuts on page five.

[Jeritron]

No deal. We'll settle this on the court.


http://pro.corbis.com/images/EDU048.jpg?size=572&uid=%7B88E6C302-5986-470D-AC06-E272BCAA4673%7D

[Jeritron]

Thanks for messing up our exchange, 450 you fuckin terrible ass poster

[thedamndest]

That's a lame-ass recess if they're only rolling two deep in that line. Must be playing the legit way.

[thedamndest]

Seriously. What the fuck was that guy thinking?

[thedamndest]

100. Chuck Palumbo (5 votes, 174 points)
99. Vladimir Kozlov (5 votes, 177 points)
98. A.J. Styles (6 votes, 178 points)
97. Chris Michaels (4 votes, 182 points)
96. FourFifty (4 votes, 183 points)
95. Hector Garza (5 votes, 193 points)
94. Ikuto Hidaka (4 votes, 196 points)
93. Floyd Mayweather, Jr. (6 votes, 198 points)

[Jeritron]

I dunno. Probably new pathological lies

[Jeritron]

In other news, that kid in the front right square is playing far too deep. He's doomed if someone calls a "sink chimp"

[thedamndest]

Square One is really on his game right now. No way Square Two is gonna get to that in time without a dive and a possible scrape to the elbow, though sometimes elbow scrapes are what prove Four Square mettle.

[Jeritron]

Front right is just making all the wrong moves. He needs to call an "out to lunch" and regroup

[Jeritron]

Do you think they're playing with or without black magic?

[thedamndest]

What is the "Black Magic"? I probably know it as something else.

[Jeritron]

I actually don't think it meant anything. It was just known as the most dreaded of all four square audibles. I don't recall there being any real rules to the game outside of the leader making them up as he went along

[thedamndest]

Oh, we had that but there wasn't an audible for it. You just started feeling it and usually the fourth square went out.

[BigDaddyCool]

There's nothing wrong wth this mentality. Beleiving that your opinion is more valid BECAUSE of this fact is the problem. And vice versa. (Lookin at you BDC.)

Oh fuck you. *knocks over chairs and tables as I storm out*

[BigDaddyCool]

BTW, BDC does repect work rate, I just don't give a shit about the indies.

[CSL]

This is from a thread at that board....

That Cena/Umaga match was fantastic

[Juan]

I disagree. Watchable? MAYBE. Fantastic? No sir.