Telling us what to think (Benoit)?

[SIDRA]

Maybe it's just because I was/am still (Despite the f'd up end.) a complete Benoit mark but....

Do you think its right for WWE to chage history and erase Benoit completely?
I dont agree with it, and here is why.
Double murder suicide aside, Benoit was one of the best in ring performers ever, not just in WWE, but in all of pro wrestling.
Now WWE wont acknowledge he ever even existed (Minus his place in the title history.)
This brings me to my point. Do you think its right for WWE to tell us what to think, or remember?
A few years from now there will be wrestling fans, and new wrestlers, that never knew who Benoit was. Yeah what he did was wrong, and hes a bit of a black eye. But that don't give WWE the right to tell us what we can and cant remember, by erasing Benoit from history.
I take it as offensive that WWE thinks it's fans are stupid and wont notice him being erased.
I understand why they are doing it, but I think it would be just as ease for them to not talk about what happened to him in the end, and leave his history be.

What do you think? Discuss.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii75/nwfno_2008/chris-benoit.jpg

[BigDaddyCool]

Are you serious with this thread?

[Jeritron]

Good wrestling matches > human life and morals, to some people.

I personally have no use for him anymore. I can't get past that. I think erasing him is right, because in an industry where legacy and respect is the only tangible accomplishment, he threw his away.

[jerichoholicninja]

I don't think it has to do with the fans but the public in general. I think the WWE thinks that if they acknowledge him at all the general public will continue to see wrestling as roided up freaks in a carnival. You may think who cares what the general public thinks but sponsorship plays a huge role.

It will take time, a long time but eventually Chris Benoit will at least be mentioned again. He will never be hall of fame or even celebrated in any way. He will just be mentioned in passing. Is it right? I guess it depends if you think of Chris as a great wrestler or a family murderer. I think of him as a wrestler.

Is there any other instance of something even close to this that has happened in sports that we could use to compare how it was handled? I can't think of anything.

[Jeritron]

He killed his 7 year old son. If you haven't let that shink in, just give it a moment right now.

But he had good matches? Who cares.

[BigDaddyCool]

I'm not sure to take you serious because you end your post with a joke. Plus I just finished cussing out 1 noob, I don't think I need to do it again, but I will.

[BigDaddyCool]

He killed his 7 year old son. If you haven't let that shink in, just give it a moment right now.

But he had good matches? Who cares.

He didn't that good of matches. He had a good match he wrestled for most of his career.

[SIDRA]

Is there any other instance of something even close to this that has happened in sports that we could use to compare how it was handled? I can't think of anything.

O.J.

[Jeritron]

Either way it doesn't matter anymore

[Jeritron]

Do people care if serial killers are good at their jobs? I'm sure some of the most reprehensible people of all time were great at their job.
"Yea he killed a bunch of people, but he was a great sales rep. We should keep talking about all those sales."

[Juan]

I dunno, a lot of wrestlers have said that they will remember Chris Benoit for who he was in the ring and not what he did outside of the ring. I tend to agree. Benoit will always be a scumbag for what he did to his family, but I have no problem watching his matches and still being entertained.

I do agree however, that he probably shouldn't be mentioned on WWE anymore though.

[SIDRA]

Are you serious with this thread?

Yes, I don't like being told what I can and can't know about. As a free person we all have the right to free knowledge. I don't thinks it's WWE's choice to make for us. Let people make up there own minds about what they think, remember, or know.
I mark out every time Shawn dose the Crippler Crossface now, because it's like a big middle finger to Vice saying, "Yeah I remember Benoit, so what you going to do about it."

[Jeritron]

Personally I think it's placing an unhealthy importance on wrestling matches, and not any standard of life. At the end of the day, those matches are two guys giving eachother moves and a job. His family was his family, and it was a woman and 7 year old child. It was human life. That's my take.

[thedamndest]

From a business point a view, as a publicly traded company, it is absolutely the right move for the WWE to disassociate themselves from Benoit in every way they can. Enjoying Benoit's matches are one thing, but from an outsider's perspective, for the company to promote anything having to do with the man who murdered his wife and child and then killed himself would just be another black eye on an already questionable industry. Maybe you can still enjoy Benoit matches and forget about what happened afterwards, but a lot of people cannot. It would be like a museum hanging up the collected works of Hitler right after WWII.

Really, there is nothing to be gained by remembering Benoit or his storylines at this point "officially" by the WWE, but there is a whole lot to be lost in terms of offending viewers. I absolutely think they have made the right call.

I don't think the WWE thinks fans are stupid, nor do I think it will be only a few years before fans or other wrestlers especially forget who Benoit was. It's just something that as a company they can't talk about.

[Jeritron]

My honest question is this...

To those who defend his legacy, or choose to look the other way (there's a bunch of you)...
Are you doing it because that is honestly how you feel about situations like this, and it is your honest standard? Or are you doing it because you really liked his matches and moments, and are rationalizing a way to keep them dear?

[BigDaddyCool]

Gotcha, you a douche troll noob. Get the fuck off my forum.

[thedamndest]

Yes, I don't like being told what I can and can't know about. As a free person we all have the right to free knowledge. I don't thinks it's WWE's choice to make for us. Let people make up there own minds about what they think, remember, or know.
I mark out every time Shawn dose the Crippler Crossface now, because it's like a big middle finger to Vice saying, "Yeah I remember Benoit, so what you going to do about it."

The WWE isn't preventing you from logging on to wikipedia and learning about anything you want to know Benoit related.

[BigDaddyCool]

Don't fucking argue with this douche. Just ignore him.

[Jeritron]

Fuck Benoit.

They should just pipe in fake heat in all his matches. Make him a heel.

[BigDaddyCool]

Cause lord knows even when he was suppose to get heat he needed it piped in. Boring dead bastard.

[SIDRA]

My honest question is this...

To those who defend his legacy, or choose to look the other way (there's a bunch of you)...
Are you doing it because that is honestly how you feel about situations like this, and it is your honest standard? Or are you doing it because you really liked his matches and moments, and are rationalizing a way to keep them dear?

No, I was appalled by what happened. It's obvious that Benoit had some serious problems and it's sad that he wasn't able to get help for them in time. It's a sad sad story.
I'm not sympathetic for Benoit, or trying to pass blame. He's a horrible person for what he did.
But I have worked through it, and moved on, so I don't mind watching the occasional Benoit match and admiring the talent.

[Jeritron]

I don't admire shit

[thedamndest]

That's fine. But don't you realize it would probably be more damaging to the WWE to "celebrate his legacy" and "admire his talent" by ever doing anything to acknowledge him publicly?

[SIDRA]

Don't fucking argue with this douche. Just ignore him.

Cause cursing and calling people names always makes you right. Very mature BDC.

[BigDaddyCool]

No, I was appalled by what happened. But I'm a shit eating bastard that likes to fuck my own mother.
I'm not sympathetic for Benoit, or trying to pass blame. He's a horrible person for what he did.
But I have worked through it, and moved on, so I don't mind watching the occasional Benoit match and admiring the talent. I rape puppies before I stomp their brains out.

[BigDaddyCool]

Cause cursing and calling people names always makes you right. Very mature BDC.

Yeah, taking the side of murders over "evil corporations" does.

Fuck off.

[BigDaddyCool]

Also it is totally cool to joke about him murdering his family because he was a good carny. They totally should have tapped, then all of them would be alive. lololololol

Get the fuck out here.

[SIDRA]

I'm not saying they have to acknowledge him in any way. Just leave his matches and performances alone, it's so annoying to be watching 24/7 and see a chunk of match cut out because of a Benoit run in.

[BigDaddyCool]

Then why don't you fucking write WWE says, "Hey I'm tired of you cutting out Chris Benoit from 24/7. He didn't mean to tarnish his image by murdering his family and killing himself." Why don't you bitch to them instead of us. We can't do shit but call you a faggot.

[Jeritron]

But you don't get it BDC. His suplexes and chops were great, so we're not supposed to care that he killed a child.

[SIDRA]

Get the fuck out here.

What are you 14? You cant stand someone with a different opinion so you throw a tantrum. Grow up.

[BigDaddyCool]

But you don't get it BDC. His suplexes and chops were great, so we're not supposed to care that he killed a child.

Oh, so should we joke that he used those very wrestling moves to kill his own son? We should make him into some sort of saint of killing childern?

[BigDaddyCool]

What are you 14? You cant stand someone with a different opinion so you throw a tantrum. Grow up.

What are you 14? You value some fucking fake wrestling match more than 2 human lives?

[RP]

He put his autistic kid in a crippler crossface. This is fact.

[SIDRA]

Then why don't you fucking write WWE says, "Hey I'm tired of you cutting out Chris Benoit from 24/7. He didn't mean to tarnish his image by murdering his family and killing himself." Why don't you bitch to them instead of us. We can't do shit but call you a faggot.

I'm not bitching, I'm just discussing it. You are the one freaking out. If you don't like the conversation than don't be part of it.

[RP]

"Double murder suicide aside"


LOL

[Jeritron]

lol

[Jeritron]

just a footnote

[BigDaddyCool]

I'm not bitching, I'm just discussing it. You are the one freaking out. If you don't like the conversation than don't be part of it.

Oh, so you are trying to discuss that wrestling matches are more important that human lives? That Chris Benoit is some sort of saint and WWE is in the wrong for purposely not assocating themselves with a murderer?

[Hornicane]

Lol. Trolls like to troll. :lol:

[SIDRA]

What are you 14? You value some fucking fake wrestling match more than 2 human lives?

I know the value of human life. I did two deployments, putting my life on the line, seeing some of my friends die, to defend yours and my freedoms of free speech and equality.
No I don't value wrestling over human life. But Overall I don't care enough about wrestling to be offended every time Benoit is shown. I know what he did, I know it was bad. I don't blame WWE for it. It's his fault for what happened, and his blame.

[BigDaddyCool]

Oh, hey everyone, Sidra is a war vet. That means he is right. Double Murder Suicide aside, benoit is a fucking hero.

Hanso did to deployments to defend my freedoms. Not you.

[Nicky Fives]

erasing him isn't right..... alot of people have emotional problems, his were just taken too far....for those who find his actions offensive, they should boycott WWE all together and leave those who respect him as an athlete o continue to watch his past matches.

[BigDaddyCool]

People who can't get over WWE taking him out of the history books have emotional problems. It is a fake fucking sport. He never accomplished anything real, double murder suicide aside.

[Jeritron]

I love how soft society has gotten. Murder is okay if you have emotional problems

[SIDRA]

Double Murder Suicide aside, benoit is a fucking hero.

I don't think Benoit is a hero. Hes a murder, period. I'm not excusing that. I just don't blame WWE, or expect them to censor Benoit for me. Like I said, I've dealt with it, and moved on.

[BigDaddyCool]

I love how soft society has gotten. Murder is okay if you have emotional problems

Emotional problems and good matches.

[BigDaddyCool]

I don't think Benoit is a hero. Hes a murder, period. I'm not excusing that. I just don't blame WWE, or expect them to censor Benoit for me. Like I said, I've dealt with it, and moved on.

They aren't doing it for you, douche. They are doing it for them. They don't want to be assocated with a child killer.

[thedamndest]

You don't applaud the WWE for not trying to make a buck off of Benoit's name? It's like the one thing you can't get on WWEShop.com.

[BigDaddyCool]

So, Sidra, how many childern did you put in a crippler crossface when you were protecting my freedom to make fun of you?

[SIDRA]

They are doing it for them. They don't want to be assocated with a child killer.

Alright, and that's a gr8 point. But I don't appreciate being called names. I look at this as a discussion, not a declaration of war.

[Jeritron]

You don't applaud the WWE for not trying to make a buck off of Benoit's name? It's like the one thing you can't get on WWEShop.com.

I'm still waiting on my Chris Benoit christmas ornament set. 6-8 weeks my ass

[SIDRA]

So, Sidra, how many childern did you put in a crippler crossface when you were protecting my freedom to make fun of you?

There is nothing funny about killing a child. But when they are pointing an RPG7 at you and your company, you have no choice. It's a sad thing to see, and a regret I have to live with, not you.

[Juan]

lol I like how SIDRA got buried here for basically having a difference of opinion (as unfounded as the opinion may be)

[BigDaddyCool]

Alright, and that's a gr8 point. But I don't appreciate being called names. I look at this as a discussion, not a declaration of war.

I don't give a fuck what you appreciate. You appreciate the work of a child murderer, so you opinion is kinda moot.

[Jeritron]

lol I like how SIDRA got buried here for basically having a difference of opinion (as unfounded as the opinion may be)

I think we just disagreed. It wasn't really an overboard "shut up Sidra" burial

[ron the dial]

i watched a chris benoit match the other day. it was weird. i'm not sure how i feel about it. maybe i'll watch one more and get back to you.

[BigDaddyCool]

lol I like how SIDRA got buried here for basically having a difference of opinion (as unfounded as the opinion may be)

I'm not after him for a difference of opinion. I'm after him because he ends his first rambling post with a joke about killing women and children.

[SIDRA]

I'm not after him for a difference of opinion. I'm after him because he ends his first rambling post with a joke about killing women and children.

Alright maybe that was a bad joke, I was trying to break the ice on the situation. If that is what is upsetting you, I am sorry.

[ron the dial]

well now you've gone and apologized

[Juan]

Group Hug

[BigDaddyCool]

Not to mention that outside of murdering his own family, Chris Benoit's hobbies included wife beating, stealing wives, drug dealing and being a locker room bully. So if you ingore that, he was a pretty good guy.

[ron the dial]

http://grouphug.us/

[Sting Fan]

Not to mention that outside of murdering his own family, Chris Benoit's hobbies included wife beating, stealing wives, drug dealing and being a locker room bully. So if you ingore that, he was a pretty good guy.

If you listen to half the info thrown around about wrestlers these days and in the past twenty years you just listed what seem to be pro wrestling pass times for everyone.

The only one that the majority dont seem to indulge in is Murder (unless your last name is Snuka).

Not defending Benoit, what he did was fucked and unforgivable but funnily enough Snuka is still a legend.

[BigDaddyCool]

If you listen to half the info thrown around about wrestlers these days and in the past twenty years you just listed what seem to be pro wrestling pass times for everyone.

The only one that the majority dont seem to indulge in is Murder (unless your last name is Snuka).

Not defending Benoit, what he did was fucked and unforgivable but funnily enough Snuka is still a legend.

Oh, I know this. But lots of people seem to like saying "Double murder suicide aside" Benoit was a saint. He was just one of many scum bags in wrestling. There are some guys who are actually class acts or faitly noble.

[Destor]

He killed his 7 year old son. If you haven't let that shink in, just give it a moment right now.

But he had good matches? Who cares.
What he did doesn't mean he was bad at his job Jerry.

[Destor]

Not to mention that outside of murdering his own family, Chris Benoit's hobbies included wife beating, stealing wives, drug dealing and being a locker room bully. So if you ingore that, he was a pretty good guy.
And none of this have anything to do with his job...

[BodySlam]

Is there any other instance of something even close to this that has happened in sports that we could use to compare how it was handled? I can't think of anything.


i'm not sure but what about the Lex Luger and Miss Elizabeth situation i know its different but thats all i could think about. which probably won't work in the same way but i'm just throwing it out there

DON'T FLAME

[abec]

I guess we should just all forget Hitlers killings of the jews and just remember him for his unification of the German people.

[Destor]

lol

[ron the dial]

yes! a hitler/benoit comparison! this thread is just delving into all of the deep issues!

[abec]

you have to match absurd with absurd. I dont see why so many people want him to be remembered for everything BUT his final couple of does and are so adamant to have this travesty constantly reminded to us when such bullshit as Randy Savage are still held down as if they never existed, let alone the horse crap that was the Ultimate Warrior DVD.

[Kane Knight]

Not to mention that outside of murdering his own family, Chris Benoit's hobbies included wife beating, stealing wives, drug dealing and being a locker room bully. So if you ingore that, he was a pretty good guy.

But he was humble and kept to himself. I read it on the internet.

No, but seriously, I don't blame WWE for removing him. At a point where they were looking liable for his condition, and thus indirectly his actions, they made a decision to not associate with him. As a business, they kind of had to, because WWE: Smackdown your family! ain't gonna go over well.

Completely removing him is kind of retarded, but they were likely covering their bases.

[ron the dial]

i will always remember his final couple of does

[DarKCentaur]

Never forget.

[BigDaddyCool]

And none of this have anything to do with his job...

He was boring at his job, then he murdered his family. There, you happy now.

[Destor]

Great argument.

[Destor]

thnx

[Mr. Nerfect]

My honest question is this...

To those who defend his legacy, or choose to look the other way (there's a bunch of you)...
Are you doing it because that is honestly how you feel about situations like this, and it is your honest standard? Or are you doing it because you really liked his matches and moments, and are rationalizing a way to keep them dear?

I honestly believe that people cannot be labelled as "evil" so easily as some have labelled Chris Benoit. The man's actions were sick, and horrible. No one is going to dispute that, and there should always be a "but" added onto his legacy, to remind people of the darkness outside of the ring.

Is Chris Benoit a "hero?" Fuck no. Is Chris Benoit a great wrestler? Yes. You are allowed to distinguish between the two.

Also, promoting Chris Benoit might not be the best idea in the world, and I'd be careful where he is mentioned, but erasing him from title histories and the like is just immature, and makes the company look more guilty than anything.

[Sting Fan]

Oh, I know this. But lots of people seem to like saying "Double murder suicide aside" Benoit was a saint. He was just one of many scum bags in wrestling. There are some guys who are actually class acts or faitly noble.

Agreed.

That said I was a HUGE Benoit mark, I still own his DVD, it sits right up there on my shelf with Eddies. I used to watch it at least monthly.

Since all this I cant say I have ever been able to pop it into my DVD player.

I dont know if what he did should cancel out what he did in life, I cant speak for everyone elses opinion but to me I dont think I can sit down and enjoy any of his work ever again because anytime I think about it how his and his familys lives ended springs to mind and that just destroys it for me.

As for the WWE position, they did what they had to as a business with there head looking like being on the chopping block for his actions. Anyone who thinks otherwise doesnt really understand how business works IMO.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I love how soft society has gotten. Murder is okay if you have emotional problems

Just thought this was a funny post. Not having a go at you, but it's "soft" to deal with murder by trying to rationalise it using concepts such as science, but it's "hard" to just call someone a murderer and whinge about their work for the rest of your natural life?

What Benoit did was wrong, but he was a sick man. Verne Gagne apparently just killed someone -- because he was a sick man. Are we going to strip him from the record books and the Hall of Fame?

Oh, I know this. But lots of people seem to like saying "Double murder suicide aside" Benoit was a saint. He was just one of many scum bags in wrestling. There are some guys who are actually class acts or faitly noble.

I don't recall anyone calling Chris Benoit a saint. He sounds like a man so obsessed with his work that to know him in any other sense was a curse. He did steal wives, and partake in affairs. Such things make him, truthfully, a horrible person.

Does that mean his in-ring career should not be remembered? And we're not talking about promoted in the wake of horrific incidents -- we're talking remembered. As in not ingored.

you have to match absurd with absurd. I dont see why so many people want him to be remembered for everything BUT his final couple of does and are so adamant to have this travesty constantly reminded to us when such bullshit as Randy Savage are still held down as if they never existed, let alone the horse crap that was the Ultimate Warrior DVD.

Who has said that his final couple of days should be forgotten?

[BodySlam]

I honestly believe that people cannot be labelled as "evil" so easily as some have labelled Chris Benoit. The man's actions were sick, and horrible. No one is going to dispute that, and there should always be a "but" added onto his legacy, to remind people of the darkness outside of the ring.

Is Chris Benoit a "hero?" Fuck no. Is Chris Benoit a great wrestler? Yes. You are allowed to distinguish between the two.

Also, promoting Chris Benoit might not be the best idea in the world, and I'd be careful where he is mentioned, but erasing him from title histories and the like is just immature, and makes the company look more guilty than anything.

^^^^HE SAID IT BEST!

[sulzerdrone]

Fucking wow.

[abec]

Who has said that his final couple of days should be forgotten?
Anyone wanting to promote him being remembered as something that he was rather than what he actually was is forgetting.

What if I killed your family and I was a great Soap Opera star, would you want that show still promoting me and my previous career as for what it was before i went crazy? Welcome to the rest of America's view. WWE isn't doing anything out of the ordinary that someone with a sane mind would not being doing, especially after airing a fucking special to that piece of shit the day after it happened. In all fairness I don't blame WWE as they didn't know all the facts. (Speaking of which it was fucked up watching that special as developments were coming in that made him look guilty )

But whatever, its your opinion, I'm sure you'll enjoy cheering reruns of Benoit, Goodrich, Ray Lewis and OJ Simpsons knowing that you remember how things actually were and not how corporate America wants. Who knows, maybe you'll catch a glimpse of Native Americans getting beat down by Daniel Boone before the Alamo and you'll clap for him too.

[jerichoholicninja]

I watch his matches because I want to be entertained. By watching them I am not endorsing what he did or even him as a person. He just happened to be a part of something that is entertaining to me. I have no feelings for Chris or any of the people involved. Call me heartless or what have you but what he did has zero effect on my life. Yes, it was terrible and possibly the worst thing a human can do and I can't even imagine the things that his family and friends went through but it doesn't stop me from enjoying his work.

[CSL]

I have no problem watching his matches etc. I mean, it's a bit strange but not strange enough to not watch. If WWE want to ignore the fact he ever existed, they are perfectly entitled to since they have to look out for themselves (and I don't at all blame them. They should never be criticized for that decision) People have free will. He's still on DVD's. They aren't telling anybody what to think. Fuck Benoit, he gave up any kind of entitlement to respect or a legacy when he did what he did.

[Fignuts]

This arguement is going to be exactly like the who screwed bret arguement, isn't it?

It's never going to go away, and it's going to be just as pointless, every time it's brought up.

[Destor]

yes

[Juan]

This arguement is going to be exactly like the who screwed bret arguement, isn't it?

It's never going to go away, and it's going to be just as pointless, every time it's brought up.

I believe you are correct.

[SIDRA]

I honestly believe that people cannot be labelled as "evil" so easily as some have labelled Chris Benoit. The man's actions were sick, and horrible. No one is going to dispute that, and there should always be a "but" added onto his legacy, to remind people of the darkness outside of the ring.

Is Chris Benoit a "hero?" Fuck no. Is Chris Benoit a great wrestler? Yes. You are allowed to distinguish between the two.

Also, promoting Chris Benoit might not be the best idea in the world, and I'd be careful where he is mentioned, but erasing him from title histories and the like is just immature, and makes the company look more guilty than anything.

Thank you, just what I was trying to say.

[SIDRA]

I watch his matches because I want to be entertained. By watching them I am not endorsing what he did or even him as a person. He just happened to be a part of something that is entertaining to me. I have no feelings for Chris or any of the people involved. Call me heartless or what have you but what he did has zero effect on my life. Yes, it was terrible and possibly the worst thing a human can do and I can't even imagine the things that his family and friends went through but it doesn't stop me from enjoying his work.

Again, thank you. I don't have to feel guilty for what he did. That's his and his family's burden. Obviously he felt remorse after he did it, or he wouldn't of killed himself to.

[SIDRA]

This arguement is going to be exactly like the who screwed bret arguement, isn't it?

It's never going to go away, and it's going to be just as pointless, every time it's brought up.

It would seem so.

[RP]

Gas chambers and millions of dead Jews aside, Hitler had a mean jump shot in the Sunday afternoon pick up games.

[The Legacy]

should his last days be remembered...yes
but as autopsies and shit have been studied he suffered from dimentia(not sure if i spelled it right). im not saying forget what he did but do you blame someone with parkinsons disease for shaking(not a good comparison, but it gets the idea across). everybody claimed his son had something from fragile x to autism but the tests that were done showed that he was a normal healthy boy(someone said earlier he did have autism). benoit had mental problems and didnt get them fixed in time. would you continue to cheer a man who beat his wife numerous times...like stone cold steve austin(dont get me wrong i am one of austins biggest fans but he did it).did people stop cheering for new jack in ecw (he admitted to four murders, this was before his wrestling career). im sure there are many more but i cant think of them now. i am a wrestling fan and will get flamed for this. i do hate what he did but that doesnt change what i see in a match. wrestling is about the suspension of disbelief and watching a match i am in that moment but he still did what he did and nothing will ever change that. yes the company was right to pull him out, but i believe he shoudl never bei advertised for something but if hes on there, leave it. the eddie dvd they just put out should have had him on it but no where to be seen on the package

[Jeritron]

What he did doesn't mean he was bad at his job Jerry.

I got into that as well in later posts. I don't disagree with that, but I think it's irrelevant. To me at least.
I highly doubt about anyone caring about whether or not John Doe was a good chef after he boils up his family.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Anyone wanting to promote him being remembered as something that he was rather than what he actually was is forgetting.

What if I killed your family and I was a great Soap Opera star, would you want that show still promoting me and my previous career as for what it was before i went crazy? Welcome to the rest of America's view. WWE isn't doing anything out of the ordinary that someone with a sane mind would not being doing, especially after airing a fucking special to that piece of shit the day after it happened. In all fairness I don't blame WWE as they didn't know all the facts. (Speaking of which it was fucked up watching that special as developments were coming in that made him look guilty )

But whatever, its your opinion, I'm sure you'll enjoy cheering reruns of Benoit, Goodrich, Ray Lewis and OJ Simpsons knowing that you remember how things actually were and not how corporate America wants. Who knows, maybe you'll catch a glimpse of Native Americans getting beat down by Daniel Boone before the Alamo and you'll clap for him too.

You are horrible at this whole analogy thing, aren't you?

[RP]

should his last days be remembered...yes
but as autopsies and shit have been studied he suffered from dimentia(not sure if i spelled it right). im not saying forget what he did but do you blame someone with parkinsons disease for shaking(not a good comparison, but it gets the idea across). everybody claimed his son had something from fragile x to autism but the tests that were done showed that he was a normal healthy boy(someone said earlier he did have autism). benoit had mental problems and didnt get them fixed in time. would you continue to cheer a man who beat his wife numerous times...like stone cold steve austin(dont get me wrong i am one of austins biggest fans but he did it).did people stop cheering for new jack in ecw (he admitted to four murders, this was before his wrestling career). im sure there are many more but i cant think of them now. i am a wrestling fan and will get flamed for this. i do hate what he did but that doesnt change what i see in a match. wrestling is about the suspension of disbelief and watching a match i am in that moment but he still did what he did and nothing will ever change that. yes the company was right to pull him out, but i believe he shoudl never bei advertised for something but if hes on there, leave it. the eddie dvd they just put out should have had him on it but no where to be seen on the package

Does it make a difference if his kid was retarded or not? HE CHOKED HIS FUCKING KID OUT MAN! And ofcourse he shouldnt be advertised. I dont know about you, but if I showed to an event and saw Chris Benoits dead corpse infront of an autograph signing, i'd be pretty dissapointed. And the fact that Benoit never got himself taken care of is his fault. He had a history of beating his wife. She has a saftey deposit box with all this info in it. You say he didnt get fixed in time like it was somebody running through an airport trying to catch his flight and missing it.


You wrestling fans are quite retarded.

[Jeritron]

I agree

[Destor]

I got into that as well in later posts. I don't disagree with that, but I think it's irrelevant. To me at least.
I highly doubt about anyone caring about whether or not John Doe was a good chef after he boils up his family.
I'm just gonna say this: he's hardly the first murderer/pro-wrestler and it doens't change how much I enjoy his mathes at all. He's slime, yeah. But so are most pro-wrestlers. The only real difference with him and the others...he got the most publicity.

:-\

[Jeritron]

I can't just point fingers on who's a murderer elsewhere in the business though. I don't know that there aren't, but I also don't know that there are. I know he's a murderer. Anyone, anywhere in life could be one for all we know. It's a matter of knowing. Anyone else who is the same, gets the same treatment in my book.

It's like the "there's gotta be worse criminals in the hall of fame than Pete Rose" argument.

[Destor]

It's not even that. Everyone knows KNOWS Snuka is a murderer and look at how well he's recieved. Hall of fucking Famer. Always treated like a legend. DVDs and marketing out the ass. The only real dif is Benoit got fingered.

Benoit still is one of the all time great pro-wrestlers. Doesn't matter who he killed. As long as he didn't do it in the ring it has no baring on his career.

[Jeritron]

Also "slime" isn't really fitting.
You can say Stone Cold is slime for beating his wife, or that other guys who pull other shit are slime.
Benoit killed a 7 year old child. That's the worst thing a person can do. It's miles ahead of your average slimeball antics in the evil department.

[Destor]

The list of known mudering pro-wrestlers is pretty long really. Benoit is the one gettin hate mail. Shit what about rapist pro-wrestlers? Theat list is epic huge. Same there. It's only Benoit getting black balled. And why? He got media attention.

[Juan]

It's not even that. Everyone knows KNOWS Snuka is a murderer and look at how well he's recieved. Hall of fucking Famer. Always treated like a legend. DVDs and marketing out the ass. The only real dif is Benoit got fingered.

Benoit still is one of the all time great pro-wrestlers. Doesn't matter who he killed. As long as he didn't do it in the ring it has no baring on his career.

This is exactly how I feel about this.

[Jeritron]

Benoit still is one of the all time great pro-wrestlers. Doesn't matter who he killed. As long as he didn't do it in the ring it has no baring on his career.

I'm not saying that his matches are instantly bad, or that he didn't have a great career. I just think it is irrelevant. It isn't promoted or remembered, nor should it be. Every ounce he gave to the business and his fans, he took away over a weekend. His respect and legacy is gone. I think that's all you have at the end of the day.

I dunno. Figgy was right about it being a pointless debate, but on a moral level I am steadfast about the guy being unworthy of any recognition or praise. In the ring or out. I just don't see how it can matter to fans. I don't see the crippler, I see a fuckin monster.

[Destor]

Which had he lived and served out would have been a hell of a gimmick.

[Destor]

Best heel heat ever.

[Juan]

lol

[Blue Demon]

Gas chambers and millions of dead Jews aside, Hitler had a mean jump shot in the Sunday afternoon pick up games.

:p :D

[Impeccable]

From a business point a view, as a publicly traded company, it is absolutely the right move for the WWE to disassociate themselves from Benoit in every way they can. Enjoying Benoit's matches are one thing, but from an outsider's perspective, for the company to promote anything having to do with the man who murdered his wife and child and then killed himself would just be another black eye on an already questionable industry. Maybe you can still enjoy Benoit matches and forget about what happened afterwards, but a lot of people cannot. It would be like a museum hanging up the collected works of Hitler right after WWII.

Really, there is nothing to be gained by remembering Benoit or his storylines at this point "officially" by the WWE, but there is a whole lot to be lost in terms of offending viewers. I absolutely think they have made the right call.

I don't think the WWE thinks fans are stupid, nor do I think it will be only a few years before fans or other wrestlers especially forget who Benoit was. It's just something that as a company they can't talk about.

:y: Great answer

They're not telling us what to think. They simply don't mention him any more. At no point has WWE ever told any of us to forget about about him. At no point has WWE actually told us that he never existed.

Despite what you think, the "legacy" of benoit will be handed down from wrestling fan to wrestling fan. It will not be forgotten by any of us, I'm sure, and I know when my kids are old enough, and they ask me who I thought were the greatest "wrestlers" of my generation, I will include Benoit in that list. I will tell my children of his matches, and also what happened in his final days.

I'm sure there are plenty of people on this forum who weren't watching wrestling when Pillman died or ten years ago when Owen fell, yet they know of their legacy, despite the fact that they aren't mentioned week in week out or on every page of the WWE website.

[BigDaddyCool]

You people are amazing in the worst way. And I do mean you people.

[Kane Knight]

What Benoit did was wrong, but he was a sick man. Verne Gagne apparently just killed someone -- because he was a sick man. Are we going to strip him from the record books and the Hall of Fame?

On the one hand, I agree appreciation of Benoit's work doesn't have to mean condoning the murders and suicide that ended his career. On the other hand, we're talking about a fake sport with a fake HoF by comparison.

[Kane Knight]

Again, thank you. I don't have to feel guilty for what he did. That's his and his family's burden. Obviously he felt remorse after he did it, or he wouldn't of killed himself to.

Wrong.

[Danny Electric]

This is a weird situation, I completely understand where the WWE are coming from. As KK said before, how can you advertise your programme as a family show whilst showing clips of murderers.
However, where do you start to differentiate Benoit's carrer in the ring and what hapenned out of the ring.
Just by speaking to KK, I got told that the report on Benoit after his suicide was that he had the brain of an 80 year old Alzheimer's patient. This shows how unwell he was, so there has always been more to this situation.

[BodySlam]

I'm sure there are plenty of people on this forum who weren't watching wrestling when Pillman died or ten years ago when Owen fell, yet they know of their legacy, despite the fact that they aren't mentioned week in week out or on every page of the WWE website.



I Remember the night they announced the death of Brian Pillman on Raw and at that time i really like watching brian pillman. and i remember the death of owen hart because i was too young i couldn't get the P.P.V plus i wasn't allowed too and i remember seeing it on raw and those two were sum of my favorites at the times they died.

[addy2hotty]

Of course it is right for the WWE to distance themselves from Chris Benoit. Just like they tend to distance themselves from the others who have become crazies due to their long-term exposure to the industry.

I think, mainly from guesswork, that they've escaped relatively unscathed from the event. Now, what with 'The Wrestler' doing well, the industry is again bathed in a positive light rather than the industry 'that kills families'.

Personally, I don't really care whether Benoit is on DVDs or included in a title history or not. I don't really think he deserves to be in the HoF anyway. You can easily see his matches and clips on youtube, and to be honest, there's only two things he ever did that I'm interested in watching again.

On the question of whether he's 'evil', that - to me - comes down to more than one event in a life, and consideration should be given to medical reports indicate that the guy was nuts, taking drugs that exacerbated that condition and had large numbers of his peers saying what a great guy he was.

[Kane Knight]

We was, evidently, a douchebag long before he would have suffered enough damage to go nuts, and certainly before he was seriously juicing.

Still, that doesn't mean he wasn't nuts at the end, since he clearly was. This is the cost of entertainment.

[addy2hotty]

We was, evidently, a douchebag long before he would have suffered enough damage to go nuts, and certainly before he was seriously juicing.

If I'm honest, all I know on that count is that he cheated on his wife, stole someone elses wife and then threw some furniture around to which his wife then filed for divorce and then changed her mind. Perhaps he was a bully who systematically abused his wife until killing her, if so, I'd agree that you could call him evil.

It is a subject that causes extreme reaction though, this thread proves it. It also proves that the WWE are right to pretend the guy never existed.

[Xero]

I think I've watched one Benoit match since that day. I just can't watch them anymore.

It's ironic, because I was watching the Ladder Matches DVD the day it was announced and Benoit/Jericho was the next match I was to watch. Took me a year just to watch the DVD again, didn't watch the Benoit match though.

[BigDaddyCool]

If I'm honest, all I know on that count is that he cheated on his wife, stole someone elses wife and then threw some furniture around to which his wife then filed for divorce and then changed her mind. Perhaps he was a bully who systematically abused his wife until killing her, if so, I'd agree that you could call him evil.

It is a subject that causes extreme reaction though, this thread proves it. It also proves that the WWE are right to pretend the guy never existed.

There are also cases of him bullying rookies in the locker room. He has been just as big of a douche back stage as JBL or Hardcore Holly. Plus he was dealing drugs. I mean he had outragous amounts of roids being sent to his house, more than just for himself. You know he was dealing.

"Double murder suicide aside," Benoit was not a good person.

[addy2hotty]

There are also cases of him bullying rookies in the locker room. He has been just as big of a douche back stage as JBL or Hardcore Holly. Plus he was dealing drugs. I mean he had outragous amounts of roids being sent to his house, more than just for himself. You know he was dealing.

"Double murder suicide aside," Benoit was not a good person.

I just don't know why people who have such respect in the industry would colour him so great in interviews and such if that's the case. I just don't know. Perhaps I need to be more cynical, if that's actually possible being a journo and all.

Or perhaps it's just the carnies sticking together.

[BigDaddyCool]

I just don't know why people who have such respect in the industry would colour him so great in interviews and such if that's the case. I just don't know. Perhaps I need to be more cynical, if that's actually possible being a journo and all.

Or perhaps it's just the carnies sticking together.

I think most of the people there were shocked and there is a protect the industery mentality. But when they were talking, especially Edge and Regal, they were letting on that something was not right.

Also, it seemed like most interviews they just kinda focused on how to himself he kept, almost to the point were the could distance themselves from him.

At least that is what I picked up.

[Kane Knight]

I just don't know why people who have such respect in the industry would colour him so great in interviews and such if that's the case. I just don't know. Perhaps I need to be more cynical, if that's actually possible being a journo and all.

Or perhaps it's just the carnies sticking together.

The "real wrestlers" on this board banded together to defend sodomy as a form of initiation.

Given that, I don't think it's hard to imagine carnies sticking together.

[Afterlife]

YOu got a beef with sodomy, now?

[Fox]

Of course it is right for the WWE to distance themselves from Chris Benoit. Just like they tend to distance themselves from the others who have become crazies due to their long-term exposure to the industry.

I think, mainly from guesswork, that they've escaped relatively unscathed from the event. Now, what with 'The Wrestler' doing well, the industry is again bathed in a positive light rather than the industry 'that kills families'.


How exactly does a movie about a pro wrestler who does steroids, abandoned his daughter and does drugs until he's dead "bathe the industry in a positive light"? Did you even see that movie? Mickey Rourke has been revitalized as an actor. The wrestling industry is still just the wrestling industry.

As far as Benoit goes, I dunno how to feel about it all. The man lost his shit and killed his family and himself. It's fucking tragic. But like was mentioned, he was severely ill when it happened, much like Verne Gagne recently. I don't think WWE should promote him, but painting him out of the history books is just stupid.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Yeah he was obviously a bad dude. But he was also demented too, so :S, whatever, i don't really like watching him, it gives me the creeps.

[FourFifty]

Cena Wins.

Nah, just kidding.
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Maybe I'm a dick, but what was done, is done. There's no changing it, so let's move on. Call him a cold blooded murder who ate kitten hearts as a snack while he lit orphanages on fire, or call him one of the best technical wrestlers with a strong submission style who will be missed in our hearts (and our dvds). It doesn't matter.

[The Mask]

i think the benoit thing was a tragedy myself. say what you will about the guy but he was obviously brain damaged to fuck from all the bumps/chair shots he'd taken and i think that had more than a little bearing on what happened. i view him like some people would lennie in "of mice and men". i don't think he's the horrible guy he's portrayed to be, even if he was no saint.