My problem as a non-wrestling viewer now

[Jon Kano]

Its been a long time since I was interested and watched WWE consistantly.

Not the biggest wrestling fan, but I know my fair bit.

Watched wrestling from 1991-1995, then 1999-2002, which was my fave era (1999-2001).

Some of my fave wrestlers in a kind of chronological order...

Razor Ramon
Mr Perfect
Adam Bomb
Bret Hart
The Rock
Steve Austin
British Bulldog
Chris Benoit
Eddie Guerro
Kanyon
Bryan Clark
Test
Batista



So lately I have been watching the odd RAW, I'm going watch Wrestlemania, but theres somethings I can't seem to like or find entertaining....

The aftermath of the WCW and ECW infulx has created this kind of feeling that a championship is not as important as it once was; too much of a roster, not enough time to show off everyone so things seem rushed and pieced together.

The writing used to be so much more constructed and part of a greater plan.

Theres no importance to the substance now in my opinion, theres also no edge, in terms of the danger and attitude element, I realise the attitude era is over (fuck I loved it) but theres no overall feel. I don't think I'm explaining myself correctly, but I just feel something is missing and its lost something special.

I havn't thought these out much, or know if these ideas would or could be implemented but I'm thinking more stables?...yinno a bit of antagonism and signs of division....unify the shows man, take it back to two decent shows and spread the camera time and talent more evenly that doesn't just turn what was once a decent show in Smackdown to what is fast becomming the new Heat.

Am I wrong? living in the past? I dunno. But please discuss....

[Xero]

They've lowered the rating to TV PG and for the most part are now a family-friendly product, and that takes a lot of the edge out.

[Steveviscious89]

Actually you are entirely correct, but don't be surprised if most of the 'internet' fans here avoid your topic because I have attempted to make the same point with little or no response from other people. It is lacking the edge, and I'm not talking about the PG rating. You don't need swearing and nudity to create an atmosphere in wrestling because WCW did it for awhile in the late 90's under what would have been a PG rating. It is too bad you seemed to miss that time when they were on top. You might have just been ticked or something that the WWF had lost, but really it was an exciting time because the competition created a huge popularity overall. Now that's all gone and you see reports of Vince getting all mad because his precious ratings are dropping and scripts are getting leaked. You would think they would have to try something new eventually because doing the same thing over and over again will not yeild different results.

[Xero]

Don't know why anyone would ignore you, you're entirely correct. They need to do something fresh and new, but with the company comfortably at the top and a long way from collapsing they don't need to change. Just yet.

And I partially disagree with the PG rating not affecting it. No, you don't NEED the "swearing and nudity" and the product can survive comfortably on a PG rating. The problem is WHO they're aiming for, the family-friendly crowd. And with that you really lose the majority of the edge and the most lucrative demographic.

Also, the writing is shit and the only ones who really shine decently are those with major stroke (Hunter, Taker, Michaels, etc), thus allowing more of a flexible storyline.

[Team Sheep]

Probably gets ignored because we see these threads every week.

[Xero]

True.

[Jon Kano]

If there are topics like this every week are they from current viewers of non-viewers/old fans?

Because its like right now, I want to be interested in the product, but I'm not feeling it.

I'm not even talking about 'the edge' in terms of violence or anything that would be effected by the watershed.

I'm talking about the risk/the crisis yinno the kind of stakes that create a killer storyline which in turn creats new and other storylines which are all interlinked and systematic.

I think a lot of its to do with stables and sides of play.

Back in 1999...you had Austin & Vince with the whole higher powers thing, which added a spin to the Austin Vs Corporation thing....on the sides of that you had DX and its ruin....HHH joining the Corporation...eventually the corporat ministry....then the union who opposed such force....I dunno it just seemed back then whatever was going on, no matter who or how was involved, it was all linked up.

Now it just seems everything and everyone is placed all over the place running around like headless chickens.

[Damian Rey]

I think Xero nailed it completely...

With no competition, and the E being far from plundering any time in the forseeable future, there isn't a rush to change. The only reaosn we got "Attitude" was becuase, after getting their rears handed to them on a weekly basis, Vince and co had to go further and push harder than WCW was willing to. Desperate times call for depserate measures, and as of right now, WWE isn't desperate.

At times, the writing has its moments. The HBK/Jericho fued was amazing. Considering we started with Flair v Michaels, that lead to Batista/HBK fued, and eventually to a heated handfull of months of Jericho/HBK that saw the "death" of Y2J and the new, fan scolding Jericho we currently have.

Also, Orton/HHH got off to a hot start, with Orton punting Vince, beating and punting Shane, RKOing Steph, and jumping HHH. Unfortunately that angle has slowed down quick. Jericho, up until this past Monday, had arguably the best running storyline for the last month, and Taker/HBK is going strong for the past 2 weeks.

So, again, some great moments here and there, I think the writing just lacks longevity and consistency.

[Juan]

Probably gets ignored because we see these threads every week.

Pretty much.

[Jon Kano]

Pretty much.

Yeah well Im not in this forum every week at all so its nice to interact with people who will debate with what i have to say and I to them.

that ok by you?

[Juan]

Yeah ok

Just pointing out WHY you wont get much debate on this subject.

[Volare]

It's not that we don't mind you making the topic...we've just seen this week in and week out.

[Jon Kano]

Fair play.

Alls I really want is to love wrestling again.

[Juan]

I think the big problem with some people who try to get back into it again, is that they LOOK for things to complain about instead of just taking it for what it is. And although it may be fair to use the Attitude era (and eras before it) as measuring sticks for what is and isn't good wrestling, trying to compare today's era to the past simply isn't fair IMO.The business, and to a lesser extent our culture, are in a different place now than back then.

[Juan]

I dunno if that even makes sense, but yeah

[Volare]

I think so.

[Jon Kano]

Yeah I agree to an extent.

Its not that I want all that back, part of me does recognise wrestling quality today, but it really isn't the same or anything better or as good.

The matches do not last very long, they are too fluid flowing and smooth, theres no edge or roughness, its like nearly every match I see is like a ballet nearly. lol I dunno.

[abec]

Its a sad day when wrestling doesnt even feel real anymore. The drama just isnt there unless it involves the old school guys.

[Team Sheep]

I think the big problem with some people who try to get back into it again, is that they LOOK for things to complain about instead of just taking it for what it is. And although it may be fair to use the Attitude era (and eras before it) as measuring sticks for what is and isn't good wrestling, trying to compare today's era to the past simply isn't fair IMO.The business, and to a lesser extent our culture, are in a different place now than back then.

Yeah, I personally enjoy today's product because I like it for what it is. And this is my opinion, but personally I prefer the wrestling now to what there was in the Attitude era. To me it seemed like back then most of the match was done outside the ring, too many weapons being used, etc. These days I think the wrestling matches are more pure.

[LuigiD]

As others have stated, absolutely correct.
I started watching wrestling back in 1998. When I started it was more exciting due to several good brands being around(at least in my opinion..) then the invasion came and I was pumped to see some of my dream matches take place. Unfortunately, most of them did not deliver but it was cool anyways.
Then, I stopped watching around late 2003 and didn't start watching again until early 2005. I couldn't really get into it that much. Didn't really feel that interested as I once did. Now, I watch wrestling occasionally. Usually, I just tune in to watch 2-3 wrestlers fight and then I turn it off.During the whole bringing back ECW I was pumped but it ended up being a big disappointment.
I also never got into the two brands crap. I felt like before they had more time to build up feuds,etc. Now everything feels very predictable..maybe because I am older but who knows.

[Jon Kano]

Thats it, thats the same as me mate!

My dream matches had come true, the federations were one and it was an exciting time. But it wasn't to be, the aftermath wasn't worth what we got. And without competition, an influx of talent, egos with the same air time, it just didn't work out.

It should've been left as a dream.

Vince should've kept WCW as a serparate product then mixed and matched.

[Cuzziebro]

Sorry I cant take you seriously when you say Batista is one of your 'fave' wrestlers.

[Jon Kano]

LOL fair play, Im sure Im not the only one who likes him.

Im not just someone who 'likes someone' though.

Although I am prob no where near at the knowledge level or fan material as many on here, I do know my fair share, and its not without reason.

I only like him for certain things and not as a general showman as you might think, only various aspects.

But yeah, ok, I can relate. As in I understand.

[Fox]

I agree with most everything said here, and I think that part of the problem is that there is no real MAJOR conflict going on in the WWE as a whole. WCW's boost came from nWo versus WCW, and Hogan versus Piper/Sting/Flair, etc. WWF's boost came from Austin vs. McMahon, ie Corporation vs. WWE. There is nothing like that anymore.

There is also no primary main event face on the entire roster. Say what you want about Undertaker, Triple H, HBK, Cena, Batista, but none of them are what Austin, Rock, Sting, RVD or Goldberg were for their respective companies. They are main eventers, they are the most over faces in the company, but none of them is "THE guy." And say what you want about Cena being "the guy" for the WWE, but trust me, the top runner for the company should not receive half boos/half cheers at every venue. That is called a problem. Imagine if Sting were getting booed when he was dropping from the rafters to beat up Bischoff and Hogan? That doesn't work.

And the problem will remain, because on the current roster, they just don't have "that guy," and they don't seem to be willing to do anything to create him. Without naming any names, I believe there are certain superstars on the roster who could be that main guy if they just took a risk and ran with him, but I really don't see that happening until they end up having no choice.

I hope that one day the product improves. It's a sad day when someone like me, who loves the product and even wants to work there sometime in the future, can't watch an entire episode of their programming without wanting to do something else.

[James Steele]

It is obvious to me that Brock Lesnar leaving WWE left the huge gap you see today.

Brock was built to be THE MAN in WWE for years and years. He had everything you could want. By the end of his time in WWE, he could work a stick pretty well.

[Loose Cannon]

I agree with most everything said here, and I think that part of the problem is that there is no real MAJOR conflict going on in the WWE as a whole. WCW's boost came from nWo versus WCW, and Hogan versus Piper/Sting/Flair, etc. WWF's boost came from Austin vs. McMahon, ie Corporation vs. WWE. There is nothing like that anymore.

There is also no primary main event face on the entire roster. Say what you want about Undertaker, Triple H, HBK, Cena, Batista, but none of them are what Austin, Rock, Sting, RVD or Goldberg were for their respective companies. They are main eventers, they are the most over faces in the company, but none of them is "THE guy." And say what you want about Cena being "the guy" for the WWE, but trust me, the top runner for the company should not receive half boos/half cheers at every venue. That is called a problem. Imagine if Sting were getting booed when he was dropping from the rafters to beat up Bischoff and Hogan? That doesn't work.

And the problem will remain, because on the current roster, they just don't have "that guy," and they don't seem to be willing to do anything to create him. Without naming any names, I believe there are certain superstars on the roster who could be that main guy if they just took a risk and ran with him, but I really don't see that happening until they end up having no choice.

I hope that one day the product improves. It's a sad day when someone like me, who loves the product and even wants to work there sometime in the future, can't watch an entire episode of their programming without wanting to do something else.

:y:

yes

[Rob]

The biggest problem is the lack of new stars. Most people who stopped watching 4 years ago could turn on tomorrow and the only new main event guy would be Edge (I think). Everyone else is still in the same position. I'd bet £100 right now that the main event in next years Wrestlemania involves at least 2 out of Cena, Edge, Taker, HHH, Michaels and Orton.