I loved the Midcard back in 98

[Loose Cannon]

I've been watching Raw's from March and April of 98 and my god the midcard was awesome. Led by DX, the Nation, Farooq, Ken Shamrock, Val Venis, Kane and others, the midcard very well rounded and had awesome segments behind the feuds. I just got done watching this April 13 episode of Raw and uploaded this on You Tube.

The crowd was so fucking hot back then

Farroq calls out The Nation and shit goes down. Nation Rock ruled :love:

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[Impeccable]

Amazing...is there somewhere online I can watch full episodes of raw from '97 onwards and smackdown from '99 onwards?

[KaliKot]

Amazing...is there somewhere online I can watch full episodes of raw from '97 onwards and smackdown from '99 onwards?

Youku my friend, youku. Although i hate the way the site loads videos chunk by chunk instead of in one go, it has the complete library of the attitude era from ppvs and raws and even all the Nitro you can handle

[interforce]

You forgot about Steve Blackman as well :'(

No but seriously the midcard feuds were so shit hot back then. I always marked like a little bitch whenever i saw Shamrock.

Thing is i dont know if its the talent or writing but i cant see any midcard feuds happening like this for a long time. A part of me says the talent is not what it used to be and another part says the writing is so bad if they cant make a decent main event feud how the fuck are they going to bother lower down the card.

Now i know the attitude era has gone but why cant they do things like this again? We need more stables and more midcard feuds. Personally i think its due to the branding. If Raw + Smackdown ran as one roster and ECW as more of the grooming for future stars i think the WWE could be back to a winner

[DaVe]

Eh? I'd hardly call Kane a midcarder back then. He was in every 2nd world title match in 98, and obviously won one, as well as had crazy feature matches with Taker/Mankind/Austin. It's only late 98/into 99 that he slid back into the midfield.

[The Fonz]

Hello Ladies...get on the HOOOOOO TRAIN!

[Loose Cannon]

Eh? I'd hardly call Kane a midcarder back then. He was in every 2nd world title match in 98, and obviously won one, as well as had crazy feature matches with Taker/Mankind/Austin. It's only late 98/into 99 that he slid back into the midfield.

are you kidding me here? out of everything I posted, you pick this

[Innovator]

On WWE 24/7, they're up to December of 97, every segment meant something. It was awesome

[Savio]

I wish time warner had WWE 24/7

[Innovator]

It's worth 7.99 a month, from the roundtables alone

[Loose Cannon]

yea, 97, 98, 99, 2000. all great years where everything meant something.

No 24/7 on Dish as well :(

[DaVe]

are you kidding me here? out of everything I posted, you pick this

450 hadn't posted his objection yet, so I felt I had to, being the 2nd biggest Kane mark here.:p

Edit: But yes, I concur.

[Xero]

There's a midcard now?

[Splaya]

I loved WWF in the 98-99 time frame. Like it wasn't even just the main event storylines. Anyone who was featured on television had a legit storyline. Look at the Oddities. Freaks that no one cared about, but you put them together, give them a catchy theme, and THE CROWD WOULD EAT OUT OF THE PALM OF THEIR HANDS.

[Jeez]

Youku my friend, youku. Although i hate the way the site loads videos chunk by chunk instead of in one go, it has the complete library of the attitude era from ppvs and raws and even all the Nitro you can handle

How do you change the language to english?

[Fox]

I think that the card is better today than it was then. The level of talent is tremendous. WWE just doesn't use them correctly, or allow them the freedom to make variations and go outside the box in their matches. There is a huge difference in the way matches are wrestled between 98 and 09.

Also, justin.tv almost always has RAW IS WAR streams going. Just search for WWE or RAW.

[Dorkchop]

98 is my favorite year in pro wrestling. The crowds were hot, characters were interesting, matches were fast. So any things worked.

[LuigiD]

1998 was the year I started watching wrestling so it was easy to get dragged in.
I always loved tag team action. Back then I felt like there was such a bad ass amount of tag teams..tag team action felt legit. Today, the tag team belts feel like a joke to me.

[Mooияakeя™]

Seriously, how much of this was Vince Russo? Was it the edge that he was giving, or the whole team back then. I mean, who was in the whole team even?

[Wolfpack423]

What about the Nation vs. D-X street fight. I loved that feud. The Rock vs. Triple H at Summerlsam 1998 is my favorite match, that and their Iron Man Match at Judgment Day are my two favorite matches.

[Jeritron]

I think the quality of the midcard from that time period is a bit overrated. I'm not saying it wasn't great, but I think the main stars and the overall product is what fueled the whole thing.

Yes, those guys were over as hell, but I honestly believe that guys like CM Punk, MVP, Kofi Kingston and Evan Bourne would be just as over in that climate. Maybe even more so.

It's not a knock to what guys like Xpac, Road Dogg and Rikishi did. They were great. Their popularity and pops were basically larger than many main eventers from other generations. I just think the midcard talent today is comparable, bordering on superior. The crowd just isn't as hot.

[Mike Honcho]

the GOOD OL' DAYS!!

[Loose Cannon]

I think the quality of the midcard from that time period is a bit overrated. I'm not saying it wasn't great, but I think the main stars and the overall product is what fueled the whole thing.

Yes, those guys were over as hell, but I honestly believe that guys like CM Punk, MVP, Kofi Kingston and Evan Bourne would be just as over in that climate. Maybe even more so.

It's not a knock to what guys like Xpac, Road Dogg and Rikishi did. They were great. Their popularity and pops were basically larger than many main eventers from other generations. I just think the midcard talent today is comparable, bordering on superior. The crowd just isn't as hot.

see, I don't think anyone is arguing about the guys today vs the guys back then and who was a better performer. Fox said it best in this thread. I think the WWE has a much better array of talent today then ever before. I'm not going to sit here and argue that and you woul be very hard pressed to argue that.

However, I do think the presentation of the show and these wrestlers today is a lot worse. From the scripted interviews, to the cheesy segments, to nothing spontaneous happening, it really kills the presnetation in my opinion. Everything is so black and white these days. There's no wiriting outside the box.

That's the big difference between today and back in 98

[Jeritron]

I see. Yea, the overall product is what makes the difference.

Also, in a way I think they have too much talent. I think it's a problem they've struggled with often since 2001. It's harder to implement a clear and fair hiearchy on the card, when there are so many talented guys and potential stars. No matter who's on top, there's going to be talent going to waste.

I think it's a lot harder to put together a tiered product when there are so many legitimate main eventers, and the crowd is constantly calling for the midcarders to reach the top. When the midcard is full of guys who deserve to be pushed higher on the card, it's going to seem bad.

The thing that was great about Val Venis and Xpac types is that they were midcard for life, and everyone seemed to know it. There's always a "never say never" approach, but they knew their place and so did the crowd and everyone put it out of their mind and let things flow. Them losing to main eventers wasn't an issue, and whether or not the booking hampered their chances of getting to the World title as all a non-issue.

Now people are introduced to a guy like CM Punk, or Mr. Kennedy and they can't just enjoy them in their midcard capacity. The second they show potential, people don't care about their midcard fueds or them capturing the IC title. They just want them to never lose a single damn match, and become a world champion. The bookers fall into this trap themselves too.

[Jeritron]

Cliffnotes version: "Midcard" has become a dirty word. I don't know why. What's so bad about being a midcard favorite for life, and peaking at the IC title? Sums up Mr. Perfect's career, and he's worshipped among fans still.

[Loose Cannon]

I see. Yea, the overall product is what makes the difference.

Also, in a way I think they have too much talent. I think it's a problem they've struggled with often since 2001. It's harder to implement a clear and fair hiearchy on the card, when there are so many talented guys and potential stars. No matter who's on top, there's going to be talent going to waste.

I think it's a lot harder to put together a tiered product when there are so many legitimate main eventers, and the crowd is constantly calling for the midcarders to reach the top. When the midcard is full of guys who deserve to be pushed higher on the card, it's going to seem bad.

The thing that was great about Val Venis and Xpac types is that they were midcard for life, and everyone seemed to know it. There's always a "never say never" approach, but they knew their place and so did the crowd and everyone put it out of their mind and let things flow. Them losing to main eventers wasn't an issue, and whether or not the booking hampered their chances of getting to the World title as all a non-issue.

Now people are introduced to a guy like CM Punk, or Mr. Kennedy and they can't just enjoy them in their midcard capacity. The second they show potential, people don't care about their midcard fueds or them capturing the IC title. They just want them to never lose a single damn match, and become a world champion. The bookers fall into this trap themselves too.

very good point :y: You're exactly right. And also a lot of those midcarders had these edgy characters to them that weren't just one dimensional. You had Val Venis the porn star, Godfather the Pimp, Goldust, Oddities, DOA, Dude Love. They even took a guy like Dan Severn, generic to the max, and gave him a sweet gimmick to add to his presence. You look at the guys today and you have cocky heel #1, cocky heel #2, cocky heel #3, babyface #1, babyface #2, babyface #3. Seriously, the characters between the heels and between the babyfaces are so similar and bland.

Also, they do have wayyyy to much talent like you said. And then you add in the development guys also. I think having a wide selection allows them to keep trying and trying new things and not sticking with what they have, which can actually be a bad thing. It's hard to create new stars when you keep flip flopping around and changing your mind every 2 months

[Jeritron]

Yea, Rock and HHH became stars because they were the WWF's only options. They had to stay the course and invest the care into their pushes, because at that time there was no alternative.
That isn't to say they weren't extremely talented. They deserve all the credit.
But they were able to develop and evolve as stars because they were all the WWF had.
In today's climate, Rock would have been buried and possibly canned when the Rocky Maivia happy go lucky character bombed.
HHH would have been future endeavored after the Greenwich Snob ran it's course, or the "curtain call" at the latest.

Even Stone Cold Steve Austin probably wouldn't have been given the oppurtunity to try out his persona after the Ringmaster gimmick flopped.

Guys like Mankind and HHH ended up capturing the title because they stayed around and gained enough ground to earn that spot. Things were less groomed. Now everything's a formula. Back then I think there was a Darwinist environment, where they had a roster, stuck to it, and everyone on it tried to be as entertaining as possible.

I think the fact that WCW gobbled up all the established talent, and every young prodigy, allowed the misfits of the WWF to flourish. WWF didn't choose that roster, or have the privelege to be picky. It was all they had, and everyone made it work.

[Savio]

^:y:

[Dorkchop]

Some of WWE's current top guys would be mid carders in 98. Cena being the most obvious.

[Jeritron]

Really impossible to tell. For all we know some of the midcarders from today's system would have flourished into huge stars back then too.

Cena is a great talker and can work. He may have gotten over back then in his rap gimmick, especially considering there'd be more edginess and less limitation on him.
He'd have more freedom to say what he wants, and wrestle to his capabilities.