Major League Soccer (MLS)

[Stickman]

So now that Vancouver has been awarded a team I guess I'll kind of start following this league. Tell me what I need to know about Major League Soccer.

[ddpBANG]

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/885/mls2011primarywebsite.jpg

[Ogen]

Just need to know that Juan Pablo Angel is your lord and master.s

[BCWWF]

Wow, I am all over this thread for you Stickman, give me some time and I'll tell you everything you need to know.

Any questions to start?

[BCWWF]

Some basics, I didn't care much for soccer here in the past, but once you look at MLS a little closer it's a pretty intriguing league. I mean by the basis of it being 16 years old, it is so far behind the established leagues in Europe and South America. But there is so much potential and it's intriguing to watch this league grow.

As you know, right now there are 15 teams. Philadelphia is joining the league next season and Vancouver and Portland are joining in 2011. It's likely that the league gets up to 20, or maybe 19, within a few years of that. Montreal, St. Louis and Miami seem to be the best bets for a team.

The element of MLS that has helped it boom in the last couple years is the soccer specific stadium. When the league started all of the teams were playing in carnivorous gridiron stadiums, and the 15K fans in 70K venues didn't provide for a good atmosphere or a major leauge feel for the league. Now, there are soccer specific stadiums in (order from oldest): Columbus, Los Angeles, Dallas, Chicago, Toronto, Denver and Salt Lake City. An amazing new stadium will open in New York next season, and Philadelphia will have one as well. Kansas City is building one and Washington D.C., San Jose and Houston are still playing politics.

The league took a big step at the start of the 2007 season. The most obvious change was the rule allowing Beckham, Juan Pablo Angel and Cuatemoc Blanco join the league. That season also introduced the SuperLiga competition against the top Mexican teams and finally introduced the youth academies. Toronto FC also debuted that year.

The coming of Toronto FC set a cornerstone for what future teams should look like. From the start, they sold out every game and had arguably the most dedicated fans in the league. This is the first season that they are expected to be pretty good, so it will be interesting to see what happens.

Seattle Sounders FC just debuted last week to a sold out crowd of 32,000. They had to cap season tickets as 22,000 so people would still be able to get single game tickets. From the start they have developed traditions and have been fully embraced by the city, including a march to the stadium and a membership system like Barcelona where you can vote on the general manager. It's like the league is finally starting to treat the fans like soccer fans and not a minor league sport.

The league has its faults. The teams are still very much in the sporting background in many markets, and some of the older teams lost their hype and now struggle to draw fans (Colorado, New England, Dallas). For the most part though, the gameplay isn't as terrible as people assume it is. Of course it's not the Premiership, but it's not supposed to be.

There's also a fair amount of quality international players in the league. Besides the aforementioned Beckham, Blanco and Angel, we now have Freddie Ljungberg, Darren Huckerby, Brian McBride, Casey Keller, Guillermo Barros Scholletto, Carl Robinson, Albert Celades and a host of quality Central American players. There's also been an influx of talented South American talent, including Pablo Vitti and Fredy Montero, which only increases the quality of play and gives MLS some standing if these guys develop into players saught after in Europe (which they already were).

The whole Pacific Northwest thing that drew you in is kind of the talk right now, obviously. With Seattle's tremendous success having only played one game, people are excited about Portland and Vancouver. The three teams all had surprisingly strong rivalries dating back to the NASL days but continuing on through today in the USL First Division (the league right under MLS). Portland should have a renovated soccer specific stadium ready to go upon arrival and Vancouver is expected to renovate BC Place for soccer as well. The thought is that these teams will be embraced as well if not more than Seattle.

[Ogen]

How is Darren Huckerby doing? I really hope hes considered shite.

[BCWWF]

He was quite the spark plug when he arrived last season but apparently got off to a pretty weak start in the opener last week.

[WestNZ]

any word on wheather that spice boy dick wad is gonna go back to the galaxy

[CSL]

lol Carl Robinson

[Mooияakeя™]

lol Carl Robinson

LOL Carl Robinson.

[BCWWF]

any word on wheather that spice boy dick wad is gonna go back to the galaxy

Yeah, after the Serie A season he will be back with the Galaxy. It's stupid really, but LA got a lot of money for it and AC Milan is playing a friendly at the Home Depot Center as well.

[Stickman]

So the quality of play is pretty good? Didn't Montreal and Peurto Rico fromt the lower league spank MLS teams in a tourny not too long ago? How's that quality?

I get that it's supposed to be the number 1 league on the continent but looks like it's not talent wise. Do the players get paid decent money?

I dind't realize the teams drew pretty well, you hear nothing positive about soccer in the states, it's always a joke so to see that they get good numbers is good to me.

Do they still have that stupid penalty kick format where they actually get to dribble the ball in? Are there any other rules inconsistant with with FIFA?

[Stickman]

Oh and in Vancouver they've been pushing to build this private waterfront stadium that would probably be one of the most beautiful stadiums in the world in terms of view, yet stupid council always votes it down. No wonder Vancouver loses major events. They are renovating BC Place and I hope it works, that stadium is a dump currently.

[BCWWF]

So the quality of play is pretty good? Didn't Montreal and Peurto Rico fromt the lower league spank MLS teams in a tourny not too long ago? How's that quality?

MLS team routinely beat USL-1 teams, and MLS has had success against the Mexican teams in the summer SuperLiga tournament. The main factor in terms of MLS' lack of success in the CONCACAF Champions League is that MLS rosters are terrible thin. In total there are only 20 senior players per team, and once you combine the league, US Open Cup, SuperLiga and Champions League the rosters are pretty worn down. And as odd as it seems, teams tend to focus on the league over the Champions League, so a lot of the early MLS exits last season were with basically MLS reserve sides.

Though nobody can doubt what the USL sides did was amazing. The Puerto Rico Islanders are in the Champions League semifinals now, and Montreal nearly made it. What was more impressive is Montreal had something like 55000 fans at their first game against Santos Laguna.

MLS teams are supposed to be more successful this year however, because the allocation is slightly different. Last year the best teams competed in every competition, but this year the best are in Champions League, next best in SuperLiga, etc. I think MLS will have Columbus, Chicago, Houston and possibly New York in the Champions League, which could be pretty formidable.

I get that it's supposed to be the number 1 league on the continent but looks like it's not talent wise. Do the players get paid decent money?

Mexico is undoubtedly the best still, top to bottom. Although MLS teams would fit in the FMF pretty easily. Other then that, there is one good team in Costa Rica, Saprissa, and then a handful of other good teams. MLS is easily the second best behind Mexico from top to bottom, but the gap is closing. MLS swept SuperLiga last season.

Salaries in MLS are a big issue. To keep the league growing on the right pace (so it doesn't go too fast like the NASL) there is a pretty strict salary cap that is around $2 million per team. You can have one or two players who don't fully count towards the cap (David Beckham, for example), but otherwise the players make anywhere from 20k to 400k. The minimum is going to have to go up soon.

I dind't realize the teams drew pretty well, you hear nothing positive about soccer in the states, it's always a joke so to see that they get good numbers is good to me.

Not all of the teams draw well, but even the ones that do are often left out of the discussion in the US media. Technically I think MLS averages about as many fans per game as the NBA. Some cities are obviously better than others (Seattle, Toronto, Los Angeles, Houston, Chicago and Washington D.C. draw very well). Some are pretty average (Colorado, San Jose, Kansas City, Dallas).

It's still very much a niche sport, which is why it is somewhat surprising to find out that there are passionate fans out there. The league still has a ways to go but there is a solid enough base.

Do they still have that stupid penalty kick format where they actually get to dribble the ball in? Are there any other rules inconsistant with with FIFA?

No, they've pretty much gone to the traditional rules and have been there for a long time now.

Oh and in Vancouver they've been pushing to build this private waterfront stadium that would probably be one of the most beautiful stadiums in the world in terms of view, yet stupid council always votes it down. No wonder Vancouver loses major events. They are renovating BC Place and I hope it works, that stadium is a dump currently.

Exactly.

If you want to start following the league, you have to know where to look for news. The big sports sites like ESPN and Fox Soccer don't have much other than the big stories, but check out:
• SoccerbyIves.net
• http://blog.washingtonpost.com/soccerinsider/
• http://insidesocal.com/soccer
• http://blog.seattletimes.nwsource.com/sounders/index.html#039446
• http://blogs.chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/soccer_redcard/

The best one, du Nord, is no longer active. But those, especially Soccer by Ives, will keep you up to date. For a Canadian perspective I know Toronto FC is covered pretty extensively by the Sun, Star and Globe & Mail.

[Stickman]

Yeah, most of Canada avoids anything Toronto.

[Mooияakeя™]

http://web.mlsnet.com/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20090330&content_id=232988&vkey=news_mls&fext=.jsp

lol. Rohan Ricketts, Carl Robinson, Danny Dichio, Darren Huckerby... seems there's a few players who think they can be gods in the MLS.

Seriously, if the MLS doesn't start going for decent players soon, with a proper transfer system, it's just gonna be ridiculed forever. They have one heck of market there to be used.

[Mike the Metal Ed]

Dynamo close to signing veteran Akinbiyi

By BERNARDO FALLAS Copyright 2009 Houston Chronicle

March 26, 2009, 1:55AM


<!-- OAS AdSpace Position3 120x60 --> <script type="text/javascript">/*<![CDATA[*/ try{OAS_AD('Position3');}catch(e){} /*]]>*/</script>
<!-- /OAS AdSpace -->
<!-- BEGIN GALLERY MODULE -->
http://www.chron.com/photos/2009/03/25/15918752/260xStory.jpg
AP

At 6-foot-1, 192 pounds, Akinbiyi is regarded as a strong forward with good pace and aerial presence.





<!-- END GALLERY MODULE --> <!-- BEGIN SHARING MODULE --><!-- BEGIN movie info box --> <!-- END movie info box -->
<!-- end floating resource box --> The Dynamo are looking to sign forward Ade Akinbiyi, a veteran of the English leagues, as early as next week.
Coach Dominic Kinnear on Wednesday said Akinbiyi, 34, is set to undergo a physical this weekend in Houston.
The Dynamo are at San Jose on Saturday.
At 6-1, 192 pounds, Akinbiyi is regarded as a strong forward with good pace and aerial presence.
An English player of Nigerian descent, Akinbiyi has been at Burnley of the Football League Championship (a level below the English Premier League) for the past two years. He has seen limited minutes as a substitute this season.
If he is signed, the Dynamo will be Akinbiyi’s 12th club in a career spanning 16 years.

:rofl:

[Mike the Metal Ed]

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0lqzQBfoOyM&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0lqzQBfoOyM&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

AAAADE! ADE! ADE! ADE ADE!

[Mooияakeя™]

I posted that right above you :wtf:

[Mike the Metal Ed]

Sorry, scrolled up to see if it had been mentioned, and it hadn't, didn't read the link.

I feel this groundbreaking day for MLS deserves a copy-paste.

ADE! ADE! ADE!

[BCWWF]

http://web.mlsnet.com/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20090330&content_id=232988&vkey=news_mls&fext=.jsp

lol. Rohan Ricketts, Carl Robinson, Danny Dichio, Darren Huckerby... seems there's a few players who think they can be gods in the MLS.

Seriously, if the MLS doesn't start going for decent players soon, with a proper transfer system, it's just gonna be ridiculed forever. They have one heck of market there to be used.

That's kind of the point. You could say the exact same thing about the ice hockey league you made a thread about. MLS isn't the major football league in the world and the United States is far from the top producer of players. The league has to put a footprint into the ground and become profitable before it starts buying better players.

[Mooияakeя™]

That's kind of the point. You could say the exact same thing about the ice hockey league you made a thread about. MLS isn't the major football league in the world and the United States is far from the top producer of players. The league has to put a footprint into the ground and become profitable before it starts buying better players.

You can't really compare what i said re: IH to this.

Football is a global sport, IH isn't
Football has a bigger audience world wide
Football is far more established in the US than Ice Hockey is here (and always will be, until a nuclear winter)

Ice Hockey clubs here DO make a profit, and still their not trying to tempt anything. They are just plugging along whereas the MLS has tried, and with Becks, has succeeded in getting top stars. I'm sure they will eventually turn a profit, but nigh on 15 years without making one overall is fucking stupid business. Shocking at the least. If they'd have started the league how it is now, the model in 15 years would be far better.

I know they can't go for the best, but ffs, there's a lot of talent coming out of the Academies that shit all over the English rejects their taking.

[BCWWF]

You make some points, but again you don't really understand the culture of football in America. We'll have millions of people watching the World Cup and Champions League, but only 17,000 are expected for a World Cup qualifier in Nashville this week. And a big part of the reason we get high numbers for the World Cup and the Gold Cup is because the giant Mexican population.

In theory, the United States could go out and buy good players and fans would come out to watch. But look at the NASL. The New York Cosmos signed Pele and big crowds showed up and new teams sprouted out and then a few years later the league was gone.

Further, European teams have a mystique to people anywhere in the world, whether that's fans or players. The fact that the leagues in Europe have the best players from every continent in the world and very few of them are American makes it exotic. Those teams have histories, legendary stadiums, epic rivalries. Why would Cristiano Ronaldo play anywhere but Man United, Real Madrid, Barcelona or AC Milan?

The United States is never going to have the elite soccer league, and at this point spending millions of dollars to bring in players past their prime will still not make this a mainstream league.

The league is slowly moving in the right direction, which is establishing academies for the teams and bringing in more and more young South American talent. If MLS can put an exciting product on the pitch and continue developing players for bigger pastures, the league will continue to grow, continue to make money, continue to develop fans and eventually start signing bigger players.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/01/us/01seattle.html?_r=1&ref=global-home

[BCWWF]

Also, the profitability issue has more to do with team's not controlling revenue from their stadiums than anything else.

[Mooияakeя™]

You know it all comes down to "SOCCER". if the US called it football, we wouldn't be having this conversation. See Australia turning from soccer to football. They've already have Dwight Yorke and Robbie Fowler go over there. Both of those shit on the names above, and could still play better today than any of the shit that's gone over to the MLS bar Beckham.

[BCWWF]

Robbie Fowler tried to find a team in MLS but nobody wanted him.

[Mooияakeя™]

Robbie Fowler tried to find a team in MLS but nobody wanted him.

Don't mean he's any shitter than the crop of idiots in MLS.

Agreed, age ain't on his side, and tbh, he had let him self go, but 1 month die hard, he is easily swansong season material. Plus the experience he can pass on compared to many would be an asset.

[BCWWF]

I still don't think you understand that the point of MLS was to grow American soccer, not to overpay players like Robbie Fowler who are unable to find a club that wants them in England.

Beckham was brought over because he is an international celebrity who more than pays for himself in terms of attendance increases and shirt sales. Not to mention he is still a world class player, despite two years in MLS. Overall he did what he was supposed to and that is put Major League Soccer on the map. Robbie Fowler offers nothing to American soccer.

[BCWWF]

To be honest the overall British response to Major League Soccer since Beckham arrived has been so forced to discredit the league, it's almost comical.

Nobody has ever tried to say that Major League Soccer is supposed to be on the same level as the Premiership, La Liga or Serie A. I don't really understand why you take offense to an American league with mostly American players that is admittedly lower quality than the biggest leagues in the world.

[Mooияakeя™]

To be honest the overall British response to Major League Soccer since Beckham arrived has been so forced to discredit the league, it's almost comical.

There is no British league and I wasn't talking from a British or English point of view anyway. I don't think the Scots or Welsh give a fuck Becks in the US.

Nobody has ever tried to say that Major League Soccer is supposed to be on the same level as the Premiership, La Liga or Serie A. I don't really understand why you take offense to an American league with mostly American players that is admittedly lower quality than the biggest leagues in the world.

Where have I taken offence? Where did I say the US was meant to be on par with the Prem or La Liga?

Robbie Fowler offers nothing to American soccer.

You know, I wasn't even in argument or discrediting anything u said, but this just makes me end any participation in this thread. So u think that everything is during 90 minutes? There's no training assistance, no personal experiences, no back room advice, no investment on his part if he wishes?

Sometimes someone's presence is all u need. If a footballer is clued up, they will take any advice from a one-time excellent footballer they can get and learn and improve from it.

[BCWWF]

I didn't mean to offend you, but everything you have said in this thread has been degrading what MLS is and in a condescending tone. Example:

Don't mean he's any shitter than the crop of idiots in MLS.

I've tried to explain numerous times why it is the way it is here, but you are stuck on the same pretenses that most Englishmen (that I've heard, at least) are. There's some notion displayed in the tabloids and reflected in what you have said in this thread that MLS is a terrible organization and has no merit to exist. I don't understand why. Americans have only really been playing soccer for 20 or so years now, of course our league is minor. But no, every player is not terrible, and yes, the league is growing quite rapidly. I love to discuss the growth, but you were stuck on insulting the league and its players.

I'm sorry saying that Robbie Fowler offers nothing to American soccer offended you, but again you are taking it out of context. Of course experienced European and South American players add to the game. You've already trashed the league for having guys like Darren Huckerby. The point is simply that Robbie Fowler was linked to several clubs in this league and no team deemed him worthwhile. And to be honest, of any player I think he fits the description of what the United States doesn't want more than anybody else—he is old, washed up and is simply looking for a paycheck.

The other players you mentioned are not of the class of solid Europeans, but they are competitive in the league. Rohan Ricketts, Darren Huckerby, Carl Robinson, etc. never had the success of Fowler, but they came to MLS with more than simply the intention of collecting a big paycheck before they retire.

[BCWWF]

Again, I didn't mean to offend you, and I'd be glad to actually discuss this with you, but some of your comments came off as so condescending that it became frustrating.

[Mooияakeя™]

FFS, u know I hate doing this:

but everything you have said in this thread has been degrading what MLS is and in a condescending tone.

Bullshit. How is it? I haven't said it's a shit league. I said English players want to go over there and think they are gods. Also, on top of this, everything i said was degrading??? How is this:

there's a lot of talent coming out of the Academies that shit all over the English rejects their taking. degrading what MLS is and in a condescending tone to the MLS?

If your going to try an argue or say I said things, at least get it correct. Please.

There's some notion displayed in the tabloids and reflected in what you have said in this thread that MLS is a terrible organization and has no merit to exist. I don't understand why.

You don't understand why? Really... I fucking don't. Seriously, who has said this? I certainly haven't, and I'm proud it exists.

There's no way even .2% of the population of football fans would even think, let alone, say this.

Americans have only really been playing soccer for 20 or so years now

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_FIFA_World_Cup#Group_4_2

http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/archive/edition=7/results/matches/match=1202/report.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Soccer_League#Teams_of_NASL_1968-1984

Enough said about "20 years" ok!??!?

But no, every player is not terrible, and yes, the league is growing quite rapidly. I love to discuss the growth, but you were stuck on insulting the league and its players

Again, I was abusing English players going over there. That's the main topic I was on and what the idiots reference refers to.

You've already trashed the league for having guys like Darren Huckerby. The point is simply that Robbie Fowler was linked to several clubs in this league and no team deemed him worthwhile. And to be honest, of any player I think he fits the description of what the United States doesn't want more than anybody else—he is old, washed up and is simply looking for a paycheck.

Huckerby was always average at best, the rest weren't even near that. Decent game here and there. Fowler was a god for Liverpool.

Saying he is after a paycheck? He is one of the richest ex-footballers in the world and was listed in 2005 or 2006 as one of the 1000 richest Britons. He doesn't need a shitty paycheck that couldn't match his property and investments portfolio anyway, He's rated at £28m, but net value is estimated at £127m. He and Steve McManaman invested in racing horses with their company quite successfully.

For fact and source of the , please see:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/table/2009/jan/07/football-players-rich-list-beckham


Now lets just fucking end this.

[BCWWF]

If you actually read the links you posted you would know that soccer was played in the United States mainly by immigrants around mid-century, but despite the NASL the sport was basically non-existent on a participatory level until before the 1990 World Cup. Then in 1994 we hosted the World Cup and had charismatic players like Cobi Jones and Alexi Lalas, and then in 1996 MLS was created.

That's this history of the sport in this country.

And I still don't what I said could have possibly upset you this much. You are posting like you have some superior understanding of the American game when clearly you don't. We're simply trying to build the sport up in America so we can be on par with the rest of the world. I understand that some of the stars in MLS are amusing to you, because they weren't anything over there, but that's just how it is and I enjoy it. I like where it is going.

The most comparable situation is the Australian A-League, and on that standard I think both leagues are developing quite nicely. They are both developing homegrown talent and supplementing it with similarly talented foreigners. I would love to see more focus on the similarly talente MLS/A-League/J-League/K-League.

[Mooияakeя™]

If you actually read the links you posted you would know that soccer was played in the United States mainly by immigrants around mid-century, but despite the NASL the sport was basically non-existent on a participatory level until before the 1990 World Cup. Then in 1994 we hosted the World Cup and had charismatic players like Cobi Jones and Alexi Lalas, and then in 1996 MLS was created.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_FIFA_World_Cup#Group_4 - "The US team, which contained one ex-professional of British origin".... hardly a team of immigrants.

You are posting like you have some superior understanding of the American game when clearly you don't.

Based on the world average, I would confidently say I do.

The most comparable situation is the Australian A-League, and on that standard I think both leagues are developing quite nicely. They are both developing homegrown talent and supplementing it with similarly talented foreigners. I would love to see more focus on the similarly talente MLS/A-League/J-League/K-League.

Hmmm....

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/football_league/article5973863.ece

"If the North American Soccer League represented a retirement home for ageing superstar footballers back in the 1970s, the A-League now appears to be the place to wind down after a star-spangled career."

[BCWWF]

Oh my god. Seriously?

The US team, which contained one ex-professional of British origin,<sup id="cite_ref-Glanville19_13-1" class="reference">[14] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1930_FIFA_World_Cup#cite_note-Glanville19-13)</sup> and some international migrants along with mostly natural-born players

It was in the same fucking sentence, guy. The same can be said about the 1950 team. There's a book about it, called "Game of their lives" or something. Soccer in the United States was played almost exclusively by immigrants from other countries back. This talks a bit about it: http://www.sover.net/~spectrum/myth1930.html (http://www.sover.net/%7Espectrum/myth1930.html). That shouldn't be surprising, seeing as there were huge immigrant populations in the United States forever, but soccer was largely played by the foreigners. Look at the history of the US Open Cup and you can tell which teams are from the Irish neighborhoods and the Italians etc., etc., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamar_Hunt_U.S._Open_Cup.

Based on the world average, I would confidently say I do.I'm finding this to be true, but I am not the world average. I am somebody who follows MLS as closely as anybody in the world barring reporters.

And your last link doesn't really prove anything. In fact it more so reestablishes your former point that older European players can help younger players who weren't raised in the top academies in Europe. The A-League is doing well for itself, and I believe it represented Asia in the most recent Club World Cup.

[Mooияakeя™]

The A-League is doing fine, as they have the right mix of what they need. Not just taking a pile of shit from other countries.

Also, "mostly" natural born players works fine there. There's no issue with that. Hence, why it's no an arguement.

I can see where this is going and the type of person you are. So, what would u like me to say to please u? there's no point saying anything to discuss anything. If ur in the soccer thread, then I guess we'll meet in there where u can argue more.

[BCWWF]

I can see if you interpreted what I said as being, "The players on the original USA teams weren't really Americans."

But that's not what I meant. My point was the people played soccer, sometimes even on a semi-professional extent, but it was mainly in the areas of heavy immigration and strongly ethnic neighborhoods. The most famous example is The Hill in St. Louis, where all of the Italian families lived and where a handful of guys on the 1950 World Cup team came from.

Just to clarify.

[Mooияakeя™]

I can see if you interpreted what I said as being, "The players on the original USA teams weren't really Americans."

But that's not what I meant. My point was the people played soccer, sometimes even on a semi-professional extent, but it was mainly in the areas of heavy immigration and strongly ethnic neighborhoods. The most famous example is The Hill in St. Louis, where all of the Italian families lived and where a handful of guys on the 1950 World Cup team came from.

Just to clarify.

OK.

[BCWWF]

To be honest I'm not even sure why you are arguing with me. I mean you disagree when I say the A-League is doing well for itself and completing its purpose, and then you agree that the A-League is doing just fine.

I can tell you are more interested in soccer outside of Europe than some of the people on these boards, and so am I. I think our problem came when I interpreted your earlier comments as being more condescending than discussion-worthy regarding MLS, but if you want to discuss soccer in America I am more than happy to as long as you at least seem open minded about it.

In general, your opinions seem to mirror those of most Europeans, including Jose Mourinho the other day: http://www.examiner.com/x-4128-New-England-Revolution-Examiner~y2009m3d28-Jose-Mourinho-MLS-should-import-European-players-coaches-Inter-beginning-global-process

A lot of Europeans feel like MLS is holding itself back and should spend more money and bring in more stars, because there is clearly a lot of potential for growth in the U.S. But most of the Americans who actually follow the league closely disagree and think the league is growing at the right pace.

[Mooияakeя™]

I was being ironic with the A-League, in being the new "retirement" league.

There's nothing wrong with the MLS spending money. It needs to. I think a lot of the "anti-MLS" feelings come from people hating teh way u yanks do "trades" and "drafts". It fucking confuses me now still.

To truly progress, it needs to adopt the universal transfer system, in that, the clubs control what they buy, be it the continental europe way (chairman-like figures deciding who they want), or the traditional english way (the manager controls the lot). Whatever works for the club, or whatever the owner wants.

The one thing the MLS has that I envy is the home grown style rule. I don't know it in detail, but like where u have to have a few youngsters that you have promoted from drafts (boo) to encourage continual growth in the team and also, x amount have to be domestic based (US players). Again not sure if this spreads to Canada or something, like how for some reason, domestic players in English league is classed as NI, SCO and WAL players too.

To replace these awful drafts, there's nothing wrong with the MLS teams investing in smaller teams. What we call in England "feeder teams" where 2 clubs strike a partnership, and in this particular case the MLS team would have first refusal on any players from that club. Usually in exchange for money and / or friendly games.

To keep with the US style, this could easily be a college team too. Each MLS team could be allowed to make say 2 deals with US universities to take on college players (as college seems such a big thing over there).

[BCWWF]

The draft system is pretty wack, and one that will eventually have to be phased out. The system will simply have to adapt from the more traditional style (college then draft) into more emphasis on the academies etc. The ideal situation would be for MLS to align with the lower divisions here, but for now they won't do it. But like you said, having a feeder team in a lower division would pay huge dividends.

As per the transfer rules, the reason that there are such restrictions is because when there wasn't restrictions in the 1970s it didn't work and the league collapsed. Just because, in theory at least, if an outfit like the Seattle club here (owner by Microsoft No. 2, Hollywood producer, etc.) wanted, they have the money to go out and buy all kinds of top-end talent. But with NFL tickets being $100+ per game, and then MLB, college sports, NBA and NHL, even the biggest time soccer wouldn't necessarily be the top two or three sports here. So the league's theory is that instead of having owners risk a lot of money and have an arms race, the goal is just to build the league with the primary intent of developing American players.

To that extent, it's done a fair job so far. In the last couple years the movement of MLS-grown stars to Europe has increased, and as it does that can only help our national game but also boost the standing of the league. Obviously the Beckham-like deals were meant primarily to put the league on the map a bit, but as Beckham has sourly found out, the league is still pretty much a minor league here.

[bigdaddysuperfreak]

I went to a couple of ny redbulls games last season. Got to see Danny Cepero score on the other goalie, saw Joze Altidore score before he left and got to watch them play FC Barcelona.

[BCWWF]

When New York's new stadium opens up next season it should be possibly the best soccer stadium in the U.S. It'll be interesting to see how the fans turn out for that.

[Impeccable]

How is the league system decided in MLS? The English Premier League rewards the most consistent i.e. the team that finished with the most points are champions.

Does MLS have a playoff system, where potentially a team that hasn't finished top of the league can win the overall championship?

[bigdaddysuperfreak]

When New York's new stadium opens up next season it should be possibly the best soccer stadium in the U.S. It'll be interesting to see how the fans turn out for that.
Yeah im gonna get a ticket package since they are so ridiculously cheap. Could have gotten 4 tickets to the opening for 90 including free hot dogs and soda but I already told my friend I would work his car show.

[BCWWF]

Does MLS have a playoff system, where potentially a team that hasn't finished top of the league can win the overall championship?

Yeah, this is the preference in American sports, and I believe it is the same system used in Brazil and Mexico.

But this is another one of those never-ending issues with soccer in America. Half the population will embrace the idea and like having our own little characteristics, while the other half of fans will always point to things like this as evidence that soccer here is minor league and gimmicky.

My opinion lies a little more toward keeping a playoff system, for now. I think both sides have their advantages, but it would be too foreign (no pun intended) to not have playoffs in an American, and without much emphasis on the US Open Cup and Champions League they kind of need something like that. Just because, in America they are still trying to convert so many people to soccer, and if it's an odd format and your team is out of contention by mid-season, why care anymore? We just don't have the decades of allegiance to certain teams at this point.

[Mooияakeя™]

I just think a code of rules was laid down, I find it hard why people change it their own way. This caused a split in Rugby league ffs. Agreed, the "shootout" was scrapped and the countdown clock to zero, which was the best step MLS has ever made, but this playoff thing, wherever it is done, fuckin' gripes me. I guess this is why Europe is the most popular. Cos we do it right.

[BCWWF]

To be honest, the playoffs make for a much more exciting end of the season than simply crowning a champion. I mean in England right now, barring a crazy year, the most exciting thing going on the last month of the season is who gets a UEFA Cup slot.

As I said before, I think the reason it works well over there is because the top seven teams are still playing for something at the end of the year, so even if it's a runaway you have something to look forward to; it's just not a playoff in the same sense that we use it.

[Mooияakeя™]

I mean in England right now, barring a crazy year, the most exciting thing going on the last month of the season is who gets a UEFA Cup slot.

Are you watching the right league?

It's the tightest Premier League season ever and on top of that, the title is going down to the wire.

You play 38 games a season, I think winning the title at the end, is fine. I would say 99.95% of English football fans would not go the yankie playoff way. Probably 100%.

[BCWWF]

That has more to do with the fact that your system has been like that and its what you are used to. Our system puts more emphasis on the playoffs, and that's what people are used to. It dilutes the regular season a bit, but playoffs in any sport are the most exciting part of a season. It's just a different emphasis.

As far as the Premier League though, my point wasn't as much directed at the actual league champion as it is the league in general. I mean theoretically most teams are playing for something (about four for the league, four or five for UEFA Cup, five or six to escape relegation), but I think the biggest drawback to the European system is that if a team runs away with the title then it takes significance away from everything else. Like say United goes eight points up with four weeks left, what's the point for the other teams? I mean you know what other three teams are going to get Champions League spots, it's just a matter of who gets to bypass qualification.

I really just think it comes down to preference, but neither system is perfect by any means.

[Mike the Metal Ed]

I heard Christopher Burchall is leaving Brighton to act as cover for David Beckham.

All the world class superstars...

[BCWWF]

I believe Brighton wouldn't let him go, but this again goes back to my point: Why mock MLS for inquiring about a starting player on one of the better CONCACAF national teams?

What is this standard that you expect them to be reaching? Burchall would fit in quite well with a league of the size and stature of MLS.

[Mike the Metal Ed]

It's nothing to do with MLS, really. I've got nothing against the league and want it to develop its own culture rather than signing pension cashers. I more find it comical that he's being brought in to replace Beckham. If he was to go on and define MLS as his level, good for him.

[BCWWF]

To be fair, wherever the word "replace" came into play is where this went wrong. But the story came from what, the Brighton newspaper? I'm not surprised it'd portray it like that.

Really, the guy is an average CONCACAF midfielder, and he would really be there with the thought of being a journeyman midfielder.

Plenty of MLS midfielders have the talent to stand out in the Championship (not saying much though), but the big difference is that Americans don't have the tactical training and the smarts that you get growing up with top European coaches etc. That's always the first thing guys like Beckham point out when they get here and probably the biggest thing holding us back in general right now.

[Mooияakeя™]

Plenty of MLS midfielders have the talent to stand out in the Championship (not saying much though).

If that was pointed at slagging off the championship, don't. It's the best 2nd league in the fucking world and to be fair, probably the most supported.

I'd put it out there that most of the Championship sides would beat some of the teams in Ligue 1, Bundesliga, Ere Divisie and even La Liga and Serie A

[BCWWF]

The Championship is clearly the most supported second league in the world, I'll give you that.

However the Premiership's depth is vastly overrated because of the success of the Big Four, and thus I don't really buy that many Championship sides would be anything more than low-table clubs in Spain, Italy and Germany, just like they are when they get up to the Prem.

However my point was that being able to stand out in any second division isn't going to do much for you. I'd reckon that a team of all-stars from the Championship would not go past the round of 16 in the World Cup, and that is essentially what I'm saying. If the best the American players can do is stand out in the championship, that's not saying much for their chances.

[Mooияakeя™]

If the best the American players can do is stand out in the championship, that's not saying much for their chances.

I beg to differ. The Championship is better than you might think.

Have you actually seen anything from Euro leagues? You say the "BIG 4" in England. Well, it's just that. 4. How do you explain the rest of the leagues? As some massive pool of teams who constantly mix up championships??

Italy: Milan, Juventus, Inter Milan 12 other teams have won the scudetto since 1950. That's 59 years and your're looking at almost 50 seasons where 3 teams have shared the title. Big 3????

Germany: Bayern Munich have won the title 20 times since 1969. That's half 50% of the last 40 years. 1 club country???

France: Just seeing Lyon win the last 7 seasons, and possibly on for an 8th successive... again as above. 1 club country???

Czech Republic: Sparta Prague have won 10 titles in the last 15 seasons. That's even more than Bayern's percentage of wins. I see a pattern here... 1 club country???

Portugal: Well, since 1935 only 5 teams have won the title, 2 of them were one-offs, leaving Benfica to win it 31 times, Porto 23 times and Sporting 18 times. Not to mention Porto dominating 14 times in the last 20 seasons. With 72 championships between 3 teams over 74 seasons... well, needs no further comment.

Scotland: Well, nothing to be said here. 2 teams winning the title since 85/86 season says it all.

Spain: Bar a few seasons where Atletico and Athletic Bilbao won the title and even more recently as Valencia have stepped up, It's been Barca and Real all over Spain. Big 2????

Holland: Again, bar a few Feyenoord championships, it's been PSV and Ajax all over. But even though this is a "BIG 2???" all over again, they ain't even as BIG as they used to be in European football

[BCWWF]

No, you're misunderstanding. This isn't a knock on the Premiership having four good teams. I know every league is like that, and that a couple are really bad. That wasn't my point though.

I've gone through this before in the main thread, but I find that comparing UEFA Cup results is the best test of how good a league is when you cut off the disproportionate top of it. All of the top teams are in a class of their own (Big Four in England, Big Three in Italy, Two in Spain, etc.) Below that is where it gets interesting.

I can look for my breakdown, but when you compare UEFA Cup results since like 2001, it is clear that Spain has the strongest league top-to-bottom. I'm just saying, if you take the G16 or whatever top teams out of each league, the Premiership would not be head and shoulders above the rest.

That all said, the Championship still is probably the top No. 2 league in the world, and the American players don't have the tactical training and knowledge of the game to truly stand out even there yet.

[The Mackem]

How is my main man Claudio Reyna coming on?

[BCWWF]

Retired due to excessive injuries :-\

[Mooияakeя™]

That all said, the Championship still is probably the top No. 2 league in the world, and the American players don't have the tactical training and knowledge of the game to truly stand out even there yet.

Well, it is the best 2nd league, yes, and I think the best US players would fit here easily. Dempsey, Friedel, Howard, Donovan, DeMerit, Adu and Bradley are easily above Championship standard.

[Ogen]

Well given they've all played above the Championship ( well I'll be honest and say I've no idea who Bradley is ) thats a given really.

[Mooияakeя™]

Well given they've all played above the Championship ( well I'll be honest and say I've no idea who Bradley is ) thats a given really.

Never said it wasn't. I did say "easily" above. BCWWF said American players wouldn't stand out, well, these would.

[G]

I'm not going to read all the posts, but what exactly happened with Beckham over here. Did he really do nothing for the MLS and is going back to Europe or something. I don't know. Give me a brief rundown.

[BCWWF]

Never said it wasn't. I did say "easily" above. BCWWF said American players wouldn't stand out, well, these would.

I was more referencing MLS players though.

Michael Bradley is a young American midfielder who plays for that team in Germany with the terribly long name. He'll probably move after the season though.

[BCWWF]

I'm not going to read all the posts, but what exactly happened with Beckham over here. Did he really do nothing for the MLS and is going back to Europe or something. I don't know. Give me a brief rundown.

Basically, the Galaxy were a shoddily built team to begin with, and Beckham was in poor form and barely played his first season as the Galaxy tanked. Then last season Beckham started off looking spectacular, but the Galaxy itself was still among the worst teams in the league.

Meanwhile, Beckham had been left out of the England squad before coming to MLS. Suddenly he started getting called back to England. This became an obsession for him, which caused him to miss a lot of MLS games and he clearly didn't care very much late last season.

Then he went behind the Galaxy's back to manufacture a loan deal to AC Milan so he would stay in top form and continue to be called up for England. During this, he miraculously realized that playing in Milan was a lot better then in Los Angeles and that he wanted to stay.

In a nutshell, he's basically paying a lot of money to the Galaxy so he can stay in Milan until the summer. Then he will come back to MLS for half the season before going to Milan on a perminant basis.

The easy way to look at it is that the Beckham experiment was a failure. After all his team was terrible and he gave up on his original five-year contract. But in reality his move did wonders from MLS on a commercial standpoint. 2007 was a watershed year for a couple different reasons, but since then the league's overall attendance has gone up, the league got a good TV deal, more stadiums are being built, and the league is expanding.

So as a player he didn't do much, but he raised the awareness of the league and it is doing better financially now then it ever has been. Check out what's been happening up in Seattle.

[Mooияakeя™]

I'm sure he quoted many times that he wanted to raise awareness of the league. I think he knew in advance it was a money quip, but maybe even he didn't expect to miss good football so much.

Either way, it's a win win on both sides. It could of been more better, but MLS is on the up and Becks got brandbeckham awareness in the US along with his LA coaching school and his missus got to be remembered for a while again.

[BCWWF]

I think his recall to the England national team probably had a lot to do with his attitude. That all said he has been criticized for failing to take up any leadership in that first year and that clubhouse apparently had no chemistry whatsoever. There's a book coming out about it all this summer.

[bigdaddysuperfreak]

I think Beckham wants to play in Milan because he wouldnt have made the English squad otherwise. Coppelo said when Beckham was playing for the galaxy he wasnt in top form to play for the squad due to the league he was in.

[BCWWF]

It had as much to do with the fact that the Galaxy wasn't playing this winter, a crucial time for World Cup qualifiers. Beckham was called up numerous times when he was playing with the Galaxy. Obviously Milan helps, but I think it had as much to do with him currently being on a team as it did anything else.

[bigdaddysuperfreak]

It had as much to do with the fact that the Galaxy wasn't playing this winter, a crucial time for World Cup qualifiers. Beckham was called up numerous times when he was playing with the Galaxy. Obviously Milan helps, but I think it had as much to do with him currently being on a team as it did anything else.
I remember Mike Coppello first becoming the England coach saying he would not call on Becks while he was playing on the Galaxy, which was in response to him training with arsenal I believe.

[Mooияakeя™]

I remember Mike Coppello first becoming the England coach saying he would not call on Becks while he was playing on the Galaxy, which was in response to him training with arsenal I believe.

I wasn't aware that Mike Coppello picked Daniel Brooklyn based on if he was in the Galaxy or not. I thought it was just on form.

[BCWWF]

*Fabio Capello

And Beckham has played for England several times since Capello took over, so that kind of nullifies that.

[bigdaddysuperfreak]

*Fabio Capello

And Beckham has played for England several times since Capello took over, so that kind of nullifies that.When I posted that I was thinking of a friend, and yeah he is now since going over to milan. That was a major reason for him wanting to go there, he doesnt need the money.

[bigdaddysuperfreak]

http://msn.foxsports.com/soccer/story/9088286/England-coach-Fabio-Capello-to-observe-Beckham

[bigdaddysuperfreak]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/davidbeckham/3242921/David-Beckham-follows-Fabio-Capellos-orders-to-join-Milan-Football.html

[bigdaddysuperfreak]

http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/clubfootball/news/newsid=667380.html

[BCWWF]

When I posted that I was thinking of a friend, and yeah he is now since going over to milan. That was a major reason for him wanting to go there, he doesnt need the money.

What? Beckham is losing money by leaving Los Angeles for Milan.

[BCWWF]

Again, his public reason for joining Milan is because MLS doesn't play during that time of the year. That's what your articles say too.

[Ogen]

Mike Coppello :D:D:D

[bigdaddysuperfreak]

Even when he was playing with the galaxy Cappello thought he wasnt in match fitness due to the lack of skill of the league, thats why Cappello wanted Becks to join Milan. Even if the MLS played year round, he would have thought Becks should go to a higher class league.

[Mooияakeя™]

What? Beckham is losing money by leaving Los Angeles for Milan.

Very true.

Anyway, Beckham is better in Europe. Until the MLS changes it's rules and decides to challenge as a top sport in the US, with all the salary caps etc. They never gonna get any decent players.

[bigdaddysuperfreak]

Very true.

Anyway, Beckham is better in Europe. Until the MLS changes it's rules and decides to challenge as a top sport in the US, with all the salary caps etc. They never gonna get any decent players.
They arent gonna change it because they are worried about the smaller teams not being able to keep up and eventually going out of business thus ruining the league. There arent enough soccer fans in the states to be able to conform to rest of the world right now. Im hoping that will change though in the next couple of years as Jozy Altidore gains more fame on the world stage.

[Mooияakeя™]

They don't have to go all out, if they have solid boardroom staff to control the finances and authorise viable transfers (I can see the US going the 'coach' route, not the UK style 'manager' route) they'll be fine. There's many teams across the world who do fine in hard leagues through bringing youngsters through and buying smart. It doesn't mean you have to go out and buy the most expensive players.

I too am hoping about it. I know most of the main focus is on Europe, but The Americas is the best place for a challenge to UEFA and the CL. America has a massive potential, and I agree with you, I hope it changes too, for the better.

[BCWWF]

Moonraker, check this out:

http://seattle.theoffside.com/team-news/mls-101-the-sins-of-nasl-and-how-were-still-paying-for-them.html

[Mooияakeя™]

What you're meant to do is look to the future. Today is the seed time, now are the hours of work, and tomorrow comes the harvest and the playtime.

"And these rules may change, bit by bit, as the league moves closer to profitability. (They have already changed, somewhat, with things like the implementation of the Designated Player Rule, aka the “Beckham Rule.”)"

Yet that seems to be overlooked in that article. Though it is very important that people keep adapting and so the league moves forward.