Is it time to tear down Fenway?

[Triple Naitch]

The Yankees' new stadium opened up today. Their new park is very impressive and I look forward to making a trip out there in a few years. It seems like the Yanks and Sox compete on every level, so is it time for the Sox to go the same route and build a new Fenway? Let's be honest. For as much history the park has, it is a dump. It is terribly cramped and it is impossible to get a ticket if you live outside of New England. A bigger stadium will get more fans, more revenue, and the overall game atmosphere would feel much more comfortable. I say we build a new one and put up a new Green Monster in left.

[The Gold Standard]

I have never been there, but I have heard that it is falling apart, and if Yankee Stadium is gone, then Fenway should be next

[Jeritron]

It is not falling apart. I don't know where you heard that, but 10 years ago that may have been true.
They've done some great things with it and it is very updated.
Also, it's one of the greatest things about baseball.

No. And fuck any of you that voted yes.

[Jeritron]

There's a lot that goes into the situation that most of you may not understand either.

It's not like Yankee Stadium or Shea in terms of it's location and surrounding area. They cannot simply build it right next door where a parking lot once was, and put the parking lot where the old stadium was.
It is in the middle of the city, on a small plot of land.
A newer bigger stadium cannot be built in it's place, or anywhere near it.

This would mean it would have to be built on the outskirts of the city, at the closest.
Not only does that destroy so much of the culture, and tradition of baseball in Boston, but it also causes other massive problems.
Property around the park, and the atmosphere is all Red Sox. There are bars, baseball shops, restraunts, and many many business that are a part of the area.
Landsdowne St. and Yawkey Way are nearly as much of a part of the Red Sox as Fenway is.
It's the hub of the city, and means a great deal to the culture and commerce of the city. Uprooting it would not only destroy traditonal and sentimental feelings. It would destroy property values, and dramatically affect the economics of the city. It'd also change the entire landscape.

Again, difficult to understand because almost every other park in baseball is on a large plot of land somewhere.
Fenway is not Citi Park. It is not Safeco. It's not just some plot of property named after a bank.

[Jeritron]

http://imagecache.allposters.com/images/pic/147/BOSTON~Fenway-Park-Boston-Massachusetts-Posters.jpg

[Boomer]

All I got to do last summer was walk around it entirely, and that was an experience itself. They better not.

[DaveWadding]

Fuck you. and while we're at it, you can tear down Wrigley Field over my dead rotting fucking corpse.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>Absolutely not.</font>

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I thought the plan to build the new Fenway back in 99 was pretty good. I was sad it fell through.

http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/american/bosbpk03.jpg

[DAMN iNATOR]

Well, we've already pretty much lost the former oldest stadium in Major League Baseball history, even though some would say Tiger Stadium has only been partially demolished. I think Comerica Park is very overrated and should have never been built. It was truly heartbreaking to see Tiger Stadium demolished to the extent it has been, after less than 10 years of not having any baseball played there. Fenway has it's own unique history as well, as America's second-oldest MLB stadium (both stadiums opened on the same day way back in the early 20th Century, Detroit started playing earlier that day, however, so it's technically a few hours older than Fenway). I could only imagine the outrage and heartbreak that would ensue in bean-town, if this magnificent piece of Boston's (and really, America's, if you think about it) fabric. I hope it never has to happen.

[BCWWF]

Yankee Stadium was legendary, but as Jeritron said could be easily rebuilt and replicated. Fenway has character that is simply not seen in newer parks, and I have no problem with a small stadium to keep the demand high.

[YOUR Hero]

The day will come when it'll happen. It might not be for another 20 years. It might be in 3...

[El Vaquero de Infierno]

Not until I've had the chance to go there.

[Jeritron]

Supreme, I remember that. It was a great plan on paper. I remember being really interested in it, since it was probably the best plan possible. It fell through for a lot of reasons though.

[Jeritron]

I definitely feel that if and when it's built, it has to be done right there. I don't care what they have to pay for the surrounding property, or whose dick they have to suck on capitol hill to get the districting. That's the only way to go.

I don't think it's neccessary for quite some time now, though. Also, the concept of transforming the original fenway into a public park and museum was awesome.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I think I liked that plan so much because they designed it so the Citgo sign would still be over the left field wall.

[Loose Cannon]

no, as much as I hate the Sox, no for me. Great stadium. I will never step foot in that stadium, but great stadium. I've recieved a couple invites to go, but I just can't bring myself to see a game there. It just feels so not right

[Team Sheep]

Almost every stadium in the world that has been around a good 100 years is getting torn down these days, and Fenway will be one of them soon. Yes it will be a sad day, but people have to move on at some stage.

[XIII]

fuckin stupid to tear down fenway

should'nt have tore down the yank

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

If they tore down the Boston Garden they can tear down Fenway Park in my opinion.

[Skippord]

They should tear down Wrigley and Fenway and Dodger stadium

and every park older than Coors Field :shifty:

[Skippord]

but really they shouldn't tear any stadium down until it is actually falling apart

[VonErichLives]

The day will come when it'll happen. It might not be for another 20 years. It might be in 3...

yeah, the rumor is they will get through the 100yr anniversary and then look into a new park.

I don't think you'll see it for a while, because the sox ownership bought up a lot of commercial land around there and have put it a lot of places. They wont be able to build on where this one is.

it will either go down by the waterfront or it will have to go outside the city... there just really isn't land anywhere else for it to go.

Also, the new owners have put a lot of money into this one, and they even started this year replacing some of the seats... i'm going in may and I think i'm sitting in one of the areas with "new seats".

I'm happy with these owners, we have 2 championships...

however, I wanted McCourt and O'Donnel... mostly because McCourt had all that water front property and you would have had an amazing new stadium.

Fenyway is great, a classic... but it truely is one of the worst places to watch a game, over half if not 2/3 of the seats don't even face the field correctly... there are very few seats you can see the whole field from and the ones you can require you trying to turn 90 degrees in your seat.

oh and no, i doubt baseball would let the new stadium have a "monster" nor should they... (the monster wall is grandfathered because it's to close in to play for mlb rules). you don't duplicate a classic like that. you event a new park with a new feel, etc...

[VonErichLives]

If they tore down the Boston Garden they can tear down Fenway Park in my opinion.

remember everyone who flipped out over that...

I pretty happy with the new place... no leaky roof, no fog games, a lot of other things... yeah, time moves on.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Makes a much enjoyable experience and with the amount of cashflow you gotta pay to go to a game now I think that should be taken into consideration. The atmosphere at Fenway would be tough to be recreated but having the smallest park in one of the biggest baseball market makes no sense for the fans or the organization. I mean I like Fenway as much as the next guy but I would enjoy being able to go to a few games a year without it costing me an arm and a leg just to get a seat (if I can even get one through a 3rd party)

[VonErichLives]

yeah and it can be done tastefully down the waterfront and doesn't have to be a 60K seat park...

look at Gillette, he could have made the place 100K but didn't... and I think the waiting list for seasons is still more then the people it can hold.

[screech]

Absolutely not. It is not falling apart, and as Jeri said, it would be much more difficult to build a new park in Boston (or the Boston area), than it was to build the new stadiums in say New York or Philly.

[VonErichLives]

Absolutely not. It is not falling apart, and as Jeri said, it would be much more difficult to build a new park in Boston (or the Boston area), than it was to build the new stadiums in say New York or Philly.

Difficult? no, just the usually pay off the politicians... and we'd have a state of the art park down the waterfront area.

falling apart... technically no... but wasn't it last year they were doing work over the club seats behind home plate and part of the upperdeck fell? or was that the year before?

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I think one of the reasons the Sox have held onto Fenway (and this applies to Wrigley too) for so long is because it was their link to the greatness of their past teams. People were afraid that if they got rid of the stadium, the team would lose its identity and they'd become their own isolated team with no real connection to the franchise's past greatness like in Detroit. As long as they still had Fenway, they could still hold on to the franchise's legacy.

But now, the Red Sox don't need that link, because they're currently their own great team. They could build a new stadium and keep their identity as a franchise because the great team would be making the move with them.

[DaveWadding]

Good theory, but the Sox actually had great teams that played in Fenway. The Cubs never won shit at Wrigley.

[DAMN iNATOR]

no, as much as I hate the Sox, no for me. Great stadium. I will never step foot in that stadium, but great stadium. I've recieved a couple invites to go, but I just can't bring myself to see a game there. It just feels so not right

Well of course, it's kind of like (and these are only meant for diehard fans of one team or the other):

A.) Asking a Chicago Bears fan to come watch the Bears play the Packers at Lambeau Field.

or

B.) Asking a Chicago White Sox fan to come to Wrigley Field to watch them play the Chicago Cubs (or vice versa, OBV.).

[VonErichLives]

I think one of the reasons the Sox have held onto Fenway (and this applies to Wrigley too) for so long is because it was their link to the greatness of their past teams. People were afraid that if they got rid of the stadium, the team would lose its identity and they'd become their own isolated team with no real connection to the franchise's past greatness like in Detroit. As long as they still had Fenway, they could still hold on to the franchise's legacy.

But now, the Red Sox don't need that link, because they're currently their own great team. They could build a new stadium and keep their identity as a franchise because the great team would be making the move with them.

you might think that, but you'd be wrong.

it's all about money and location.

This park has a great location, near multiple public transportations, walking distance from nearby cities, and such and there isn't a huge chunk of land left to put a big park and then have to run access to it.

Gillette is a great stadium but the traffic is horrible and the only non-driving option is taking the Amtrak Train.

I believe there is still some space down the waterfront to do it, or places they could take by eminent domain w/o too much of a fight, but that's also changing because they're build new restaurants down there for multi-millions so it would cost more or be a bigger fight to do it.

Had McCourt/O'Donnel gotten the team they would have put a new park there because McCourt owns most that land.

I suspect they'll get through the 100yr anniversary (expect the All-star game to be here) and then have plans for a new park somewhere.

[Team Sheep]

Almost every new stadium now a days is built out of town. That's the inevitable downside to it really.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Almost every new stadium now a days is built out of town. That's the inevitable downside to it really.

Well, I mean, let's take Tiger Stadium for example: Built, 1911. Demolished (partially): sometime since the last game in Sept. 1999. It doesn't matter where it was built, people want to see it stay around in some small form because of nostalgia. I remember my father taking me to a game there one day in '84, when I was just 3. I didn't realize or appreciate it at the time because I was too young, but as we all know, the Tigers had a truly magical season that year, and captured the World Series, not to mention I grew to become one of the biggest George "Sparky" Anderson fans you could find as a kid...

But soon along came Comerica Park. It doesn't matter that much to me or others where the construction materials came from to make it. The construction, in my eyes, is never complete until all the memories for players, fans, managers, etc., etc., &c. ad nauseam, stop with the final game and the stadium being torn down.

I hope you see my point, Team Sheep.

[Team Sheep]

Well, I mean, let's take Tiger Stadium for example: Built, 1911. Demolished (partially): sometime since the last game in Sept. 1999. It doesn't matter where it was built, people want to see it stay around in some small form because of nostalgia. I remember my father taking me to a game there one day in '84, when I was just 3. I didn't realize or appreciate it at the time because I was too young, but as we all know, the Tigers had a truly magical season that year, and captured the World Series, not to mention I grew to become one of the biggest George "Sparky" Anderson fans you could find as a kid...

But soon along came Comerica Park. It doesn't matter that much to me or others where the construction materials came from to make it. The construction, in my eyes, is never complete until all the memories for players, fans, managers, etc., etc., &c. ad nauseam, stop with the final game and the stadium being torn down.

I hope you see my point, Team Sheep.

Not sure I understand what you're saying. You mean if they built a new stadium elsewhere they should tear down Fenway completely?

[Boondock Saint]

Nah

[WestNZ]

I say dont take it down, seeing that i am planning a trip America to watch a game in each MLB park in the next few years. I would love to watch a game there

[VonErichLives]

Not sure I understand what you're saying. You mean if they built a new stadium elsewhere they should tear down Fenway completely?

if they build a new park fenway will get torn down, the real estate it worth way too much and w/o the team there will hurt that area to an extent... they'll put a mall or concert hall or something.

unless they can work a deal for an NL expansion team which had been talked about, or get college sports to play there.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

Don't think college sports would work in that spot, outside of Boston College football nobody really draws big crowds and BC just recently put a ton of money into their stadium. Plus BC football doesn't exactly draw in tons of people like other BCS schools and they only have a like 6 or 7 home dates anyway.

[VonErichLives]

Don't think college sports would work in that spot, outside of Boston College football nobody really draws big crowds and BC just recently put a ton of money into their stadium. Plus BC football doesn't exactly draw in tons of people like other BCS schools and they only have a like 6 or 7 home dates anyway.

I don't think any of them would sell out the park, but operate it at 1/2 capacity for the conseccion income is possible.

and yeah, I don't think BC would go there, they actually draw pretty well even against shit teams.

come to think of it... what does Alumni hold now? it may even hold more then fenway?

[BCWWF]

They need to build a stadium for the New England Revolution that's not an hour away from Boston is what they need to do.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I don't know about all that.

They could built a smaller location in that area, places like Fall River have huge international populations that would be interested in soccer. Building one in the Boston/surrounding suburbs would be a way more expensive than south eastern Mass.

[BCWWF]

Just looked that up and it's considerably further away than even Foxboro. The only reason the Patriots work that far out is because they have either games per season. There had been talk of putting a Revolution stadium in Somerville, but I've heard that's pretty much dead now.

[VonErichLives]

Just looked that up and it's considerably further away than even Foxboro. The only reason the Patriots work that far out is because they have either games per season. There had been talk of putting a Revolution stadium in Somerville, but I've heard that's pretty much dead now.

Somerville would be a good area except there is no where to put it.

The other issue is a stadium to be profitable needs other uses... a Rev only stadium wouldn't be nearly as big as foxboro and wouldn't have any other real uses.

Yes, I know int'l soccer comes her and plays, but if the new revs stadium holds 30K and foxboro holds 60K where do you think Brazil v. Argentina will play? Foxboro... it's a huge party in the lots for tailgating and the game sells out.

Many decades ago the Patriots played at Fenway... so a soccer field would fit...

They could play at BC's stadium... BU has a great soccer field, but doesn't hold enough people, plus no place to tail gate.

The other issue we're all forgetting is Robert Kraft owns the Revs... make no sense for him to have them not play at foxboro.

Do they run the trains for Revs games like the do Patriot games?

[BCWWF]

You're mainly right with all of that, but the one element that soccer stadiums have in this country is that they often hold concerts as well, which is a good source of revenue. The team is Dallas is profitable almost entirely because of that.

But again, you're right in that Kraft gets the gates from the games at Foxboro (a main reason a lot of other MLS teams left NFL stadiums). That gives them little motivation to move.

I am speaking clearly from the opinion of a fan though. New England currently has one of the worst atmospheres and some of the lowest attendance in the league. Next year New York moves into its own stadium, so only New England and Seattle will still play in NFL stadiums. But Seattle has an awesome setup with flashy coverings on the upper deck and sellout crowds for every home game. I'd love to see New England plant a nice stadium somewhere (google Dick's Sporting Goods Park or Rio Tinto Stadium) centralized, because I feel like the league overall suffers with a weak Boston product.

[VonErichLives]

I'm not sure how moving the stadium, unless as Stima pointed out you move it to a more "soccer friendly area" such as fall river area, I don't know how you'd increase attendance by building a new stadium.

and yeah, where Kraft owns the team and the stadium and they do concerts there already... I can't see him spending the money on a soccer stadium...

If there was a spot closer to Boston to put a stadium I don't think it would really help attendance here, plus a location near the City would probably be a parking garage setup which would take away tailgating which is the big factor of Foxboro football and soccer.

Somehow they're making money though... if not, I'm sure Kraft would eventually get rid of the team and let someone move them.

[BCWWF]

Foxboro is on the outer ring of Boston, more than 20 miles from the city's center (according to Google maps) and seemingly probably an hour or more of a drive for about half of the city's population.

You don't think having a centralized stadium as opposed to one way on the outskirts would affect attendance? NFL football is a different breed, they could put the Patriots in Maine and they'd probably still sell out every game because that's just how it is.

But technically the revolution are not operating in the black right now. Most MLS teams that are losing money can make more by building their own stadium and getting their own revenue, but the Revolution already have their own stadium, it just happens to be 5x bigger than what they need and well out of the way.

[VonErichLives]

Foxboro is on the outer ring of Boston, more than 20 miles from the city's center (according to Google maps) and seemingly probably an hour or more of a drive for about half of the city's population.

You don't think having a centralized stadium as opposed to one way on the outskirts would affect attendance? NFL football is a different breed, they could put the Patriots in Maine and they'd probably still sell out every game because that's just how it is.

But technically the revolution are not operating in the black right now. Most MLS teams that are losing money can make more by building their own stadium and getting their own revenue, but the Revolution already have their own stadium, it just happens to be 5x bigger than what they need and well out of the way.

Actually depending on traffic it takes no where near that long to get there from Boston.

Also, the place bangs out when Brazil plays, so clearly there are soccer fans willing to travel for certain products...

dunno, I just think there are so many good pro sports teams here with big followings the revolution will always be the sisters of the poor so to speak.