Hardy leaving WWE

[Mooияakeя™]

Apparently he is burned out says Ryan Clark who quotes partial source PWInsider.com

SmackDown wrestler Jeff Hardy has handed in his notice to World Wrestling Entertainment. He has three months left on his contract and is refusing to sign an extension at the current time. They’ve offered him several separate deals and he’s turned them all down as of this point.

It’s being said that he is very burned out and looking to do some other things outside of wrestling, so there is a very good possibility that he won’t be renewing his contract when it comes due this summer. This could explain his losses to his brother in recent weeks.

More details on this story as it develops.

Thoughts / pot addiction?

[Destor]

what a dumb ass

[Destor]

...oh it's from Ryan Clark? Nevermind.

[Mooияakeя™]

How high are we on PWInsider.com, are they as bs as Clark too?

[Destor]

PWInsider is pretty reliable.

[Mooияakeя™]

Well, looks like he'll run a feud with someone who'll put him out, can't see why WWE would just take him off TV, or give him a send off. Unless they wanna get someone going over him as a new heel to take him out.

I'll speculate... John Morrison. Can see WWE doing this, I don't want it though personally.

[Gerard]

Vince has got to be fucking PISSED considering the amount of air time hardy's had and the push he got. Kinda similar to lesnar being pushed to the moon then he just left.

If he ever wants back they'll probably lowball him on the contract offer, its obvious he doesn't have much intentions of staying around for too long compared to other performers.

[Xero]

Just FYI, this is on the PWInsider Elite section, so it's legit (as far as the sourcing goes).

[Londoner]

Would explain why they're having an I Quit match.

[Londoner]

Btw,i'm abit surprised but overall not really that bothered about Jeff these days.

[Xero]

I really don't care. I know he's good for business short term but Jeff is too much of a flake.

[RVDmark]

Vince has got to be fucking PISSED considering the amount of air time hardy's had and the push he got. Kinda similar to lesnar being pushed to the moon then he just left.

If he ever wants back they'll probably lowball him on the contract offer, its obvious he doesn't have much intentions of staying around for too long compared to other performers.

But be fair, for every 100,000 Vince has paid Jeff, Jeff has made Vince 1,000,000 probably. Jeff / The Hardy's (as a tag team) have made Vince millions over the years. Whilst not quite rivalling Cena in merch sales, I bet they arent all that far behind. Jeff has been around since the attitude era and his "high flying" style doesnt do him any favours. Vince should be greatfull, this is hardly Jeff bailing out on WWE. He has been there ( with a few brief stints in TNA / Indy's) for a long while now.

And its not neccessarilly the last we will see of him. Better he takes a break now than is forced out later.

If anything its a case of Vince missing the boat, rather than Jeff bailing out having just had a push. He should have been pushed 3/4 years ago. But what will be will be.

Anyway, if he does leave, good luck to him, I wish him every success.

[Sting Fan]

Unless hes somehow managing to do this on good terms (unlikely on the back of his monster push) you gotta thin kthis might be his last WWE run for some time.

[Xero]

For the record, he was offered a one year deal and apparently turned it down. Take that for what it's worth.

[Destor]

But be fair, for every 100,000 Vince has paid Jeff, Jeff has made Vince 1,000,000 probably. Jeff / The Hardy's (as a tag team) have made Vince millions over the years. Whilst not quite rivalling Cena in merch sales, I bet they arent all that far behind. Jeff has been around since the attitude era and his "high flying" style doesnt do him any favours. Vince should be greatfull, this is hardly Jeff bailing out on WWE. He has been there ( with a few brief stints in TNA / Indy's) for a long while now.

And its not neccessarilly the last we will see of him. Better he takes a break now than is forced out later.

If anything its a case of Vince missing the boat, rather than Jeff bailing out having just had a push. He should have been pushed 3/4 years ago. But what will be will be.

Anyway, if he does leave, good luck to him, I wish him every success.
This is a misguided post.

[Mr. Nerfect]

This is pretty big news. Jeff has been noticeably moved down the priority list since losing the WWE Championship, so it does make sense. Matt has also been going over him pretty consistently. I've got to agree with Xero -- yeah, Jeffrey might be good for business, but he's way too unreliable and unpredictable to book a company around.

[Mooияakeя™]

This is pretty big news.

Then rep me green bitch.

But no seriously, as far as "BAH GAWD ROCKSTAR LIKE ENTRANCE" goes, this is huge for the many screaming kids and spot monkeys out there who consider Hardy as their god.

[Afterlife]

I like Jeff. I will be disappointed to see him go.

[Triple Naitch]

This is really shocking. One of the most over guys who recently got his first taste of world gold just wants to walk away. I'm not a huge fan of Jeff, but I'd hate to see him go.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

Every time he gets near the top, he pisses it away.

Don't get me wrong, if he wants to leave, more power to him, he can do what he wants with his life. With that said, he should never be anywhere near a main event again, as there seems to be no logical reason why anyone would put any faith in him.

[shawnrhodeisland]

This explains why Matt Hardy is now on RAW.

Jeff will probably be jobbed out until he leaves.

[Kane Knight]

LOL. Vince is a moron.

[The Fonz]

I see the writings on the wall...

[Haze]

Wasn't this the exact same story as when he left the first time? First thing I thought while reading was "what year is this again?"

[Casey Jones]

I don't blame Jeff Hardy at all.

The guy was primed for the a main-event push last year (READ - more than just being a 'transitional champ') and the WWE shit the bed.

Not only did they not have Jeff Hardy go over Triple H cleanly one-on-one, but they never really gave him that one major credible singles victory....unless you think that Umaga fits that bill.

The WWE shit the bed with Jeff Hardy.

Having him job at Wrestlemania was one of the dumbest things that the WWE could have done.

[Casey Jones]

This is really shocking. One of the most over guys who recently got his first taste of world gold just wants to walk away.

You are not using your brain.

Jeff wants to be more than just a 'transitional champ' or some lame ass jobber to the stars. Jeff wants to be on the same level as guys like HHH, Orton, and Cena. Unfortunately, the way the WWE are pushing him, he'll be a poor man's Edge at best.

In other words - Jeff will never be THE #1 guy in the company...or co#1...or be billed as such....despite being ridiculously over with the crowd at many times last year.

It still boggles my mind that Jeff never once got a clean victory over a legit top star. Did he even beat Edge one-on-one cleanly?

[Fox]

It still boggles my mind that Jeff never once got a clean victory over a legit top star. Did he even beat Edge one-on-one cleanly?

Jeff got two or three clean victories over Triple H, one of them on PPV.

[Casey Jones]

Jeff got two or three clean victories over Triple H, one of them on PPV.

1) Were any of them one on one?

2) Did any of these 'clean' victories not involve outside interference of any kind?

If the answer to both of these questions are no, then you are a moron that needs to quit wasting my time.

[Haze]

and Jeff's push being halted was his own damn fault. He was on his way to the top and then failed a drug test. You wanna blame someone for the pot holes in his career, than blame Jeff himself.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't blame Jeff Hardy at all.

The guy was primed for the a main-event push last year (READ - more than just being a 'transitional champ') and the WWE shit the bed.

Not only did they not have Jeff Hardy go over Triple H cleanly one-on-one, but they never really gave him that one major credible singles victory....unless you think that Umaga fits that bill.

The WWE shit the bed with Jeff Hardy.

Having him job at Wrestlemania was one of the dumbest things that the WWE could have done.

Pretty sure Jeff Hardy went over Triple H clean at Armageddon 2007 with a jackknife bridge pin, didn't he?

Jeff Hardy was lucky that he got to be the WWE Champion. Yes, Jeff is fucking over and moves merchandise, but Jeff won the WWE Title with one fucking wellness strike left before the WWE had to release him. Will Jeff Hardy ever be the #1 guy for the company? Probably not. Should he be the #1 guy for the company? Fuck no. His own brother is better and more reliable than he is.

The WWE have shit in the bed with so many guys over the years. Rob Van Dam his 2001/2002 run; Rhyno after returning from his neck surgery; Randy Orton as a face in 2004; Christian, Matt Hardy and Shelton Benjamin in 2005. Jeff Hardy is not in a unique position. He's gotten a riskier push than pretty much anyone else in recent WWE history.

Part of me is wondering if this is a bit of a positioning move by Jeff, though. The guy may not be a mastermind, but this might be something from the Carlito book, where Jeff threatens to leave the company in hopes that they forget about all the risks with using him, and push him further than the moon when he does put pen to paper.

[Destor]

I don't blame Jeff Hardy at all.

The guy was primed for the a main-event push last year (READ - more than just being a 'transitional champ') and the WWE shit the bed.

Not only did they not have Jeff Hardy go over Triple H cleanly one-on-one, but they never really gave him that one major credible singles victory....unless you think that Umaga fits that bill.

The WWE shit the bed with Jeff Hardy.

Having him job at Wrestlemania was one of the dumbest things that the WWE could have done.If Jeff Hardy thinks like this than he's a mark for himself and needs to leave the buisness.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Hey, at least they can make Matt Hardy's star with this. Matt has always seem like the company man when it came to the Hardy brothers, so I think it is only fair that Jeff's heat is absorbed by Matthew Moore Hardy.

When Chavo Guerrero forced Rey Mysterio to say "I quit," I don't think he'd ever looked any better. Maybe when he defeated CM Punk cleanly with the ECW Title on the line. Matt Hardy getting Jeff Hardy to do the same thing could be something that really puts him on a new plain of credibility.

[The Optimist]

Sigh.

[Sting Fan]

If Jeff Hardy thinks like this than he's a mark for himself and needs to leave the buisness.

+1

Hes lucky to get the push he got. They could have easily tied him up in a contract, left him midcard for life and still moved all his merch while he couldnt do jack shit about it.

[DrA]

I don't blame him.

[Casey Jones]

When Chavo Guerrero forced Rey Mysterio to say "I quit," I don't think he'd ever looked any better. Maybe when he defeated CM Punk cleanly with the ECW Title on the line. Matt Hardy getting Jeff Hardy to do the same thing could be something that really puts him on a new plain of credibility.

Another moronic observation on your part. You seriously can't be this stupid...:nono:


It's interesting that you cite the Chavo Guerrero scenario as an example.

Let me ask you this: What is Chavo Guerrero now? Is he a main-eventer? What? Is he any more over now than he was back then? What?

No. The truth, is that Chavo is still a pissant that most casual fans do not give a shit about. The reasons?

-The WWE refuses to push him
-There is too much of a bottleneck in terms of (stale) main-eventers.

Ultimately - the WWE didn't do squat with Chavo Guerrero, and also made Rey Mysterio look weak in the process.

Chavo didn't end up looking credible....Rey however, ended up looking like a pussy.

The point I'm trying to make is this: Matt can embarrass Jeff all he wants. However - it means JACK SHIT if the WWE doesn't do anything with Matt. Given the WWE's track record, I don't expect them to do anything with Matt......and this is the point, that your feeble little brain does not comprehend.

Moron.

[Sting Fan]

Rey Mysterio look weak in the process.


Mysterios parents made him look weak by getting him out of the oven before he had finished rising:shifty:

[Triple Naitch]

Now tell us how you really feel, Casey.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Another moronic observation on your part. You seriously can't be this stupid...:nono:


It's interesting that you cite the Chavo Guerrero scenario as an example.

Let me ask you this: What is Chavo Guerrero now? Is he a main-eventer? What? Is he any more over now than he was back then? What?

No. The truth, is that Chavo is still a pissant that most casual fans do not give a shit about. The reasons?

-The WWE refuses to push him
-There is too much of a bottleneck in terms of (stale) main-eventers.

Ultimately - the WWE didn't do squat with Chavo Guerrero, and also made Rey Mysterio look weak in the process.

Chavo didn't end up looking credible....Rey however, ended up looking like a pussy.

The point I'm trying to make is this: Matt can embarrass Jeff all he wants. However - it means JACK SHIT if the WWE doesn't do anything with Matt. Given the WWE's track record, I don't expect them to do anything with Matt......and this is the point, that your feeble little brain does not comprehend.

Moron.

LOL, I actually heard people talking about Chavo Guerrero the other day.

Not sure what point you are really trying to make here, but I'll try and decipher it.

No, Chavo's not a main eventer now. I didn't really say he was. I just said he looked pretty fucking good when he did what he did at one point in time. Of course the WWE didn't follow-up with it, but that's the whole fucking point. If they followed up with something like that, it could make a heel look really good.

Which is what you pretty much said in your last paragraph, so you pretty much agree with me but decided to attack me about it? Is that the way you treat your gay lovers?

[The Gold Standard]

Looks like TNA is in his future

[Verbose Minch]

I don't blame Jeff Hardy at all.

The guy was primed for the a main-event push last year (READ - more than just being a 'transitional champ') and the WWE shit the bed.

Not only did they not have Jeff Hardy go over Triple H cleanly one-on-one, but they never really gave him that one major credible singles victory....unless you think that Umaga fits that bill.

The WWE shit the bed with Jeff Hardy.

Having him job at Wrestlemania was one of the dumbest things that the WWE could have done.

They shit the bed with Hardy by not trusting someone with 2 wellness strikes? Yeah, what were they thinking?

[Casey Jones]

Yeah, what were they thinking?

What were the WWE thinking when they pushed Shawn Michaels and Randy Orton during their respective pushes?

What were the WWE thinking when they pushed Hogan back in the day?

Double standards should never exist within the company, but it's not like the WWE hasn't done this before.

Why not allow Jeff to become the champ (PROPERLY), and then see if he screws up or not? The WWE did it with Rob Van Dam....and then he got caught with marijuana possession. Solution? They took the title off of him.

It's not rocket science.

Hardy should have had a chance; 2nd violation or not.

[Destor]

He did get a chance you half wit. Beeting H clean isn't what defines a chance. He was given the ball in wa y that if he did get that third strike it would be a massive botch. They gave him the ball and protected themselves. WHat the fuck are you on about Heyman?

[Casey Jones]

He did get a chance you half wit. Beeting H clean isn't what defines a chance. He was given the ball in wa y that if he did get that third strike it would be a massive botch. They gave him the ball and protected themselves. WHat the fuck are you on about Heyman?

Few things:

1) It's spelled 'half witt'. :D

2) Beeting? :roll:

3) And yes - beating Triple H cleanly during his push last year would've been a huge fucking thing.

4) When you have a chance to elevate someone (anyone) from a rising mid-card star into a major long term main-event guy, you push the guy. Fuck the wellness policy. If he fucks up, then penalize the guy AFTERWARDS. No big deal. They did it with Van Dam, they did it with Orton, etc., etc.

Very rarely, especially nowadays, does the WWE actually have a guy getting massive face pops from the crowd....almost begging for him to get elevated. When you get a guy like that, YOU PUSH HIM. Plain and simple.

You don't let some fear of some fucking wellness policy kick in.

Moron.

[Mr. Nerfect]

What were the WWE thinking when they pushed Shawn Michaels and Randy Orton during their respective pushes?

What were the WWE thinking when they pushed Hogan back in the day?

Double standards should never exist within the company, but it's not like the WWE hasn't done this before.

Why not allow Jeff to become the champ (PROPERLY), and then see if he screws up or not? The WWE did it with Rob Van Dam....and then he got caught with marijuana possession. Solution? They took the title off of him.

It's not rocket science.

Hardy should have had a chance; 2nd violation or not.

The wellness policy did not exist for Shawn Michaels. When he was doing coke off women's backs, he wasn't nearly about to get released. As for Randy Orton? Well, the WWE just covers up his suspensions and says that he did them.

And what exactly where they thinking when they were pushing that Hogan guy who made FUCKING PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING!

The chooses with Hardy, though, are to ignore his problem, and end up with another Eddie Guerrero situation, which was the whole purpose behind installing the Wellness policy in the first place; or they end up with Hardy violating the strikes and getting released. It's lose-lose with him.

The thing is that if Jeff Hardy screwed up while champ, I'm not sure if the WWE are allowed to delay releasing the guy that violates three times, but that's him out the door while he's WWE Champion. That doesn't look very good. Rob Van Dam wasn't in a position where he was about to be fired.

Besides, it's not like they didn't put the WWE Title on Jeff Hardy. They fucking did. They would probably be willing to do it again. If you're asking why Jeff Hardy doesn't go over every single talent in the WWE, when he could be gone from the WWE today and in TNA the next, you are a fucking idiot.

[Sting Fan]

Few things:

1) It's spelled 'half witt'. :D

2) Beeting? :roll:

3) And yes - beating Triple H cleanly during his push last year would've been a huge fucking thing.

4) When you have a chance to elevate someone (anyone) from a rising mid-card star into a major long term main-event guy, you push the guy. Fuck the wellness policy. If he fucks up, then penalize the guy AFTERWARDS. No big deal. They did it with Van Dam, they did it with Orton, etc., etc.

Very rarely, especially nowadays, does the WWE actually have a guy getting massive face pops from the crowd....almost begging for him to get elevated. When you get a guy like that, YOU PUSH HIM. Plain and simple.

You don't let some fear of some fucking wellness policy kick in.

Moron.


Yeah Destor FFS its much better to push him to the moon and then when he gets coked up the night he wins the belt and kills a prostitute you make him drop it the next day before getting fired. Its better for the business all around.

Plus you can use the prostitues corpse to create a new star, you know like they did with Katie Vick and Kane.

You obviously dont understand the business as well as Knoblet here.

[Destor]

Few things:

1) It's spelled 'half witt'. :D

2) Beeting? :roll:

3) And yes - beating Triple H cleanly during his push last year would've been a huge fucking thing.

4) When you have a chance to elevate someone (anyone) from a rising mid-card star into a major long term main-event guy, you push the guy. Fuck the wellness policy. If he fucks up, then penalize the guy AFTERWARDS. No big deal. They did it with Van Dam, they did it with Orton, etc., etc.

Very rarely, especially nowadays, does the WWE actually have a guy getting massive face pops from the crowd....almost begging for him to get elevated. When you get a guy like that, YOU PUSH HIM. Plain and simple.

You don't let some fear of some fucking wellness policy kick in.

Moron.
Heman, shut the fuck up with the spelling argument cause I dont even begin to care and it wont make anymore right. Drop it. Cause I promise I not through with spelling and grammer errors.

You missing somevery key things. Van Damn, wasn't one strike away from being out on his ass. Niether was ORton. Hardy was. If you can't reconize the difference, you very stupid or must be trolling and we'll just stop talking now.

Beating H would be big yes, thats why A) they shouldn't do it often. and B) they shouldn't have done it with Hardy. Hardy fails drug test. Hardy is terminated. Hardy goes to TNA where he can brag about beating TRiple H clean. BAD BUISNESS.

Hey Heyman, guess what, midcard isn't evil. Hey, guess what? He will sell as many T-shirts in the semi main as will in the main. SO you know what? It doesn't fucking matter how he goes over, it matter that you protect you stars.

So his push, doesn't have to be to the top, cause whether you can realize thsi or not, as long as you keep him strong, he's gonna keep sellin. And they did.

Smark.

[Destor]

Fuck, they give him the title and you still bitch.

[Tazz Dan]

:heart: Destor

:lol:

[Mr. Nerfect]

Few things:

1) It's spelled 'half witt'. :D

2) Beeting? :roll:

3) And yes - beating Triple H cleanly during his push last year would've been a huge fucking thing.

4) When you have a chance to elevate someone (anyone) from a rising mid-card star into a major long term main-event guy, you push the guy. Fuck the wellness policy. If he fucks up, then penalize the guy AFTERWARDS. No big deal. They did it with Van Dam, they did it with Orton, etc., etc.

Very rarely, especially nowadays, does the WWE actually have a guy getting massive face pops from the crowd....almost begging for him to get elevated. When you get a guy like that, YOU PUSH HIM. Plain and simple.

You don't let some fear of some fucking wellness policy kick in.

Moron.

1) Um, not it's not. It's someone with half a wit. Half-wit.

2) Irony. Destor's still right.

3) He went over Triple H and The Undertaker in like back-to-back weeks. Regardless of if it was "clean" or not, Jeff Hardy was winner.

4) Wow. Just wow. I need to look into the wellness policy a bit more, but you do realise that Jeff Hardy is done when he next fucks up. He is done. Out of the company. A free agent. You don't push that man like he is fucking Hulk Hogan. Hardy is lucky he got one WWE Title reign. And fuck, it's his decision to leave the company. If he stuck around, I'm sure he'd get his win back against Matt at Backlash, and then probably be a top face on SmackDown!. That's nothing to sneaze at.

I'm not even sure the WWE can have Jeff Hardy compete after he's violated the policy three times. Is it instant termination? "Oh yeah, our skinny junkie World Champion had to vacate the championship. He's better than everyone else in the company, but we're going to have a Silver Medal Battle Royal tonight." That doesn't look good. And it doesn't look good for the press if their champion is terminated for using drugs, and they have to use him on television after they know he has violated the policy, because of convenience.

[Casey Jones]

Yeah Destor FFS its much better to push him to the moon and then when he gets coked up the night he wins the belt you make him drop it the next day before getting fired.

You obviously dont understand the business as well as Knoblet here.

The rewards still outweigh the risks by a significant margin.

Case in point - Brock Lesnar.

The WWE pushed him to the moon and as result, created a new main-eventer.

Lesnar however, ultimately quit the company. Were the WWE completely ruined by the fact that they spend so much time and effort in pushing Lesnar, only to have him leave? Not really.

Same with RVD when he beat John Cena at One Night Stand back in 2006. RVD gained massive credibility that night. Was the WWE completely ruined by the fact that RVD got busted on marijuana possession a month later?

No - looking back on it, it wasn't that big a deal. RVD dropped the ball, and the WWE moved on.


I am not trying to deliberately be a dick to you.....knoblet. However - I do require a certain amount of intelligence when I debate with others. Unfortunately, you, and most others on the forum today, have not met that standard.

Perhaps this Kane Knight character that you guys keep referencing can provide some decent challenge?

[Sting Fan]

You just argued in another thread that WWE needs new main eventers as the old ones are stale.

Yet now you are championing a guy who according to track record will fuck up and after minimal time be gone from the Main event scene. Not to mention sighting two of WWEs big projects falling through as being no big deal while I repeat saying the WWE needs new Main eventers.

I suggest that perhaps those guys the WWE thought werent such a big deal would probably help with the whole stale Main eventers thing.

Anyway my parts for my car are here so my fun time here is over. Happy trolling Knoblet.

[Destor]

Nevermind guys, he's trolling.

[Destor]

No ways he beleives this shit.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Kane Knight could not deal with you. At least we speak the same language as him.

No, the WWE may not have gone bankrupt after Brock Lesnar left the WWE, but what they have now are two other televised promotions they have to deal with. Both getting more and more funding. If Jeff Hardy goes to TNA or ROH, he will take an audience with him. Luckily TNA did not have much of a purse at the time Brock Lesnar left he company.

Also, guys like Hulk Hogan put over Brock Lesnar. Since then who has Hogan put over? No body. Wait, that young kid, Shawn Michaels. But the best thing Hogan could do for him is beat him, because that would make him look good.

Stone Cold Steve Austin and Triple H were apparently hesitant to put Lesnar over, and when Lesnar left the company, I bet they had a big fucking chuckle about how they were right. Guys that fuck up their pushes like Lesnar and Hardy just make it a thicker jungle for younger stars to break through.

[Shadow]

You know something, even if he does end up leaving, he'll be back. They all want to be on the big stage.

Course...I'm sorta just not caring as I haven't watched any wrestling in...............3 years now.

[Casey Jones]

[QUOTE=Noid;2511868]

2) Irony. Destor's still right.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/beeting :roll:

3) He went over Triple H and The Undertaker in like back-to-back weeks. Regardless of if it was "clean" or not, Jeff Hardy was winner.

It has every fucking thing to do with whether the victory was clean or not. What if Triple H had never beaten Mankind cleanly back in 2000 (on three separate occassions!). What if The Rock hadn't beat Austin cleanly at Wrestlemania 19? Or if Austin hadn't beaten Shawn cleanly at Wrestlemania 14?

You seriously can't be this fucking stupid.



4) Wow. Just wow. I need to look into the wellness policy a bit more, but you do realise that Jeff Hardy is done when he next fucks up. He is done. Out of the company. A free agent. You don't push that man like he is fucking Hulk Hogan. Hardy is lucky he got one WWE Title reign. And fuck, it's his decision to leave the company. If he stuck around, I'm sure he'd get his win back against Matt at Backlash, and then probably be a top face on SmackDown!. That's nothing to sneaze at.

You again miss the point. The rewards CLEARLY outweigh the risk. If Jeff gets that major victory...the WWE get a new long term main-event star. If he fucks up, you throw him out....and you move on. Were the WWE "completely ruined" when RVD got busted for smoking pot after beating Cena for the ECW title a month earlier? No. Use your brain.

[Mr. Nerfect]

No ways he beleives this shit.

Oh, no way. I miss the days of Vermaat, though. :(

[Destor]

Kane Knight could not deal with you. At least we speak the same language as him.

No, the WWE may not have gone bankrupt after Brock Lesnar left the WWE, but what they have now are two other televised promotions they have to deal with. Both getting more and more funding. If Jeff Hardy goes to TNA or ROH, he will take an audience with him. Luckily TNA did not have much of a purse at the time Brock Lesnar left he company.

Also, guys like Hulk Hogan put over Brock Lesnar. Since then who has Hogan put over? No body. Wait, that young kid, Shawn Michaels. But the best thing Hogan could do for him is beat him, because that would make him look good.

Stone Cold Steve Austin and Triple H were apparently hesitant to put Lesnar over, and when Lesnar left the company, I bet they had a big fucking chuckle about how they were right. Guys that fuck up their pushes like Lesnar and Hardy just make it a thicker jungle for younger stars to break through.
With Lesnar you also have to consider that they KNEW he couldn't compete in the states so there was no fear fo him doing anything conrstructive until his star power winded down a bit.

[Shadow]

Jesus christ Casey...LEAVE IT ALONE!

[Casey Jones]

[QUOTE=Sting Fan;2511880]You just argued in another thread that WWE needs new main eventers as the old ones are stale.

I argued that the WWE needs new long term main-eventers. Jeff Hardy fits that bill....or atleast did last year.

Often times - there is only a small 'window of opportunity' to really push a guy and maximize the push. Orton had that in 2004 before the WWE fucked it by turning him into a face. The WWE made the same mistake with Lesnar back in 2002 (i.e. turned him into a face way too soon).

Hardy last year, was getting popped HUUUGE. He should have not only won the world title, but should have done it CLEANLY over a top tier guy...like at Summerslam or something. Regardless of his two strikes.

[Mr. Nerfect]

[QUOTE]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/beeting :roll:



It has every fucking thing to do with whether the victory was clean or not. What if Triple H had never beaten Mankind cleanly back in 2000 (on three separate occassions!). What if The Rock hadn't beat Austin cleanly at Wrestlemania 19? Or if Austin hadn't beaten Shawn cleanly at Wrestlemania 14?

You seriously can't be this fucking stupid.





You again miss the point. The rewards CLEARLY outweigh the risk. If Jeff gets that major victory...the WWE get a new long term main-event star. If he fucks up, you throw him out....and you move on. Were the WWE "completely ruined" when RVD got busted for smoking pot after beating Cena for the ECW title a month earlier? No. Use your brain.

No, you missed my point: Destor may have incorrectly spelled the word, but it doesn't make him any less right. e.e. cummings was too cool for punctuation, and so is Destor.

The wins against Triple H and The Undertaker felt fucking epic. We're not talking about Stone Cold, Triple H or The Rock here. We are talking about Jeff Hardy breaking through the glass ceiling with two mammoth wins.

Also, I don't think The Rock beating Austin at WrestleMania XIX was that fucking important, really. It was just getting a win back. He was pretty much done with the company at this time, anyway.

And no, RVD did not fuck up the company completely when he got caught with pot. But he wasn't on his last strike, and he was only fined. Jeff Hardy will be fired. RVD certainly did fuck up the WWE's plans, though, which is a major inconvenience for them.

[Mr. Nerfect]

[QUOTE]

I argued that the WWE needs new long term main-eventers. Jeff Hardy fits that bill....or atleast did last year.

Often times - there is only a small 'window of opportunity' to really push a guy and maximize the push. Orton had that in 2004 before the WWE fucked it by turning him into a face. The WWE made the same mistake with Lesnar back in 2002 (i.e. turned him into a face way too soon).

Hardy last year, was getting popped HUUUGE. He should have not only won the world title, but should have done it CLEANLY over a top tier guy...like at Summerslam or something. Regardless of his two strikes.

Hardy is a huge fucking star for the company, and is choosing to walk away. Fuck. The junkie probably just wants to be free to do some drugs again.

[Casey Jones]

Jesus christ Casey...LEAVE IT ALONE!

Fact: Noid and friends think that it would be a good idea if CM Punk won MITB next year.

My view: CM Punk should move on to bigger and better things. The WWE should seriously build him up this year and have him win the Royal Rumble. A guy like MVP could win MITB next year.

Fact: Noid thinks that an upper mid-card wrestler beating a top-tier wrestler NON-CLEAN is still epic.

My view: While the above is true, I feel that a CLEAN victory has far more meaning...and in Jeff Hardy's case, would have meant a lot more.

Fact: Noid and friends think that the WWE should not have pushed Jeff Hardy to the moon due to the fact that he was on his 2nd wellness violation.

My view: Rewards outweighs the risks. If Jeff was given his "awesome and epic clean victory", a new long term main-event star would have been created. If he 'fucked up' afterwards and got his 3rd strike? No big deal. Can the guy. Move on. Just as they did with others in the past that left the company in one way or another (i.e. Lesnar, Goldberg, etc.).


I am winning...and am not really being challenged.

[Destor]

LOL

[Casey Jones]

[QUOTE=Casey Jones;2511893]

Hardy is a huge fucking star for the company, and is choosing to walk away. Fuck. The junkie probably just wants to be free to do some drugs again.

Either that, or "the junkie" simply doesn't want to be a transitional main-eventer that will never have a chance of being the legit top guy....or co-top guy.


Moron.

[Destor]

whateva troll

[Kane Knight]

Hey, at least they can make Matt Hardy's star with this. Matt has always seem like the company man when it came to the Hardy brothers, so I think it is only fair that Jeff's heat is absorbed by Matthew Moore Hardy.

When Chavo Guerrero forced Rey Mysterio to say "I quit," I don't think he'd ever looked any better. Maybe when he defeated CM Punk cleanly with the ECW Title on the line. Matt Hardy getting Jeff Hardy to do the same thing could be something that really puts him on a new plain of credibility.

It would certainly get him a lot of heat they could bank on.

[Destor]

[quote=Noid;2511896]

Either that, or "the junkie" simply doesn't want to be a transitional main-eventer that will never have a chance of being the legit top guy....or co-top guy.


Moron.You know how bad a guy not named Hogan would get burried for thinking that way?

LOL what a mark Hardy would have to be. I realy don't think Hardy is a belt mark though so it's a pointless convo.

[Destor]

Before this conversation I really would have put Heymen up as one of the few people on this board who aren't a mark. Now though? Yeah, def a mark.

[Kane Knight]

Jesus christ Casey...LEAVE <s>BRITTNEY</s> JEFF HARDY ALONE!

[Casey Jones]

Pedigree.

Boom.

It's all over.

:::repeat x3:::::

Matt Hardy goes back to being a mid-card loser.

Until the WWE does a better job of allowing mid-card talent to break through the glass ceiling and not being transitional champs at best, the WWE will never address its main core problems.

With that in mind, it's basically irrelevant if the WWE has Matt embarrass the shit out of Jeff......and that's the point that everyone in this thread, besides me, has missed.

[Afterlife]

Maybe Jeff just wanted some time off?

[Juan]

Jeff Hardy is a good entertainer, that's something about him that I will miss

[.44 Magdalene]

You know, winning an argument usually entails convincing somebody somewhere of something.


All I'm sayin'

[KYR]

You know, winning an argument usually entails convincing somebody somewhere of something.


All I'm sayin'

You haven't convinced me of that yet.

[.44 Magdalene]

Hoho




Clever girl

[Xero]

I'm convinced Heyman is a troll.

[Casey Jones]

You know, winning an argument usually entails convincing somebody somewhere of something.


All I'm sayin'

1) The WWE would have been better off by having MVP win Money In The Bank as opposed to CM Punk. This way, a new mid-carder would have been elevated, and would have had some kind of notch under his belt. CM Punk should have been built up far better this past year, and should have been fighting with Edge for one of the world titles.

2) Jeff Hardy being pushed correctly would have been beneficial for the company...regardless of his two strikes. The rewards clearly outweighed the risks in this case for the company.

3) A non-clean victory does not hold much significance amongst the fans, whereas a clean win does.

4) There should be ONE clear #1 guy in the company, and this should be solidified at Wrestlemania. Austin became that guy at Wrestlemania 14. Shawn Michaels became that guy at Wrestlemania 12. And so forth....

5) The glass ceiling is a very real problem in the WWE. The ultimate goal for the WWE should be to create a limited glass ceiling that allows for promising mid-carders to rise within the ranks and become LONG-TERM non-transitional main-eventers. This environment, at the current time, and for many years now, has not existed. Therefore - I believe that all of Matt's victories over CM Punk, Jeff Hardy, etc. will have been in vain if he ultimately gets spanked by the likes of Triple H and John Cena...or numerous occassions. It will ultimately mean nothing. Chavo Guerrero putting Rey Mysterio out of action also ultimately served no purpose. The ends justifies the means.



Those were some of the arguments that I presented...and felt that I was victorious on....by a large margin.

I leave up to you to decide whether you agree with those or not.

In my opinion however, your wrestling knowledge and intuition is not up to par if you do not see things in that light.

[.44 Magdalene]

Not a single person in this thread seems to agree with you on all those points collectively.

If your opinion is that nobody reading this has wrestling knowledge and intuition etc., then sure, that's great.

But I think a light should be going off in your head somewhere when every car on the road appears to be driving the wrong direction.

[.44 Magdalene]

Or every single person here is a moron except you. That's perfectly reasonable, right?

[KYR]

NOW I'm convinced. :y:

[screech]

Shut up, Casey Jones

[sulzerdrone]

Casey Jones. You win. You are obviously better educated, more intelligent, and have a bigger penis. Now kindly fuck off you douchebag troll. Nobody gives a fuck what you think fagbait.

[Casey Jones]

Or every single person here is a moron except you. That's perfectly reasonable, right?

Based on the weak arguments that have been presented my way, combined with the fact that I have destroyed and nullified all of these arguments, combined with the fact that these same posters continued to present the same material despite being proven wrong, gives me no reason to believe otherwise.

If I see an intelligent and respect worthy poster, I will say as such.

[Destor]

LOL

[Casey Jones]

Casey Jones. You win. You are obviously better educated, more intelligent, and have a bigger penis. Now kindly fuck off you douchebag troll. Nobody gives a fuck what you think fagbait.

I am not looking to "win."

I am looking to engage in a good wrestling debate.

As of this writing, I have not been presented with such. The arguments that were thrown my way were weak, ill thought-out, and poorly presented. As result, I easily nullified all of the arguments and was left desiring for more.

[.44 Magdalene]

Based on the weak arguments that have been presented my way, combined with the fact that I have destroyed and nullified all of these arguments, combined with the fact that these same posters continued to present the same material despite being proven wrong, gives me no reason to believe otherwise.

If I see an intelligent and respect worthy poster, I will say as such.

So you have no real reason to stay on these forums, is what you're telling me--after all, everyone here is clearly your intellectual inferior.


Which means you're just trollin'.

[Casey Jones]

Shut up, Casey Jones

You are not a part of the solution....you are a part of the problem. Your actions indicate as such.

You are also a pathetic Dave Meltzer wannabe.

In my opinion, it is you who should shut up.

I have presented some high quality wrestling discussion tonight. What have you presented?

[Xero]

Heyman: OM NOM NOM NOM!

[.44 Magdalene]

Discussion requires two people

[Destor]

Heyman: OM NOM NOM NOM!:lol:

[Casey Jones]

after all, everyone here is clearly your intellectual inferior.




That remains to be seen. I am only commenting on what I have seen so far. It is that simple. I am unassuming.

[KYR]

I wonder what Michael Stima would say.

:shifty:

[.44 Magdalene]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3611/3458022336_b85bd51335.jpg

[sulzerdrone]

I am not looking to "win."

I am looking to engage in a good wrestling debate.

As of this writing, I have not been presented with such. The arguments that were thrown my way were weak, ill thought-out, and poorly presented. As result, I easily nullified all of the arguments and was left desiring for more.

In your mind. If your looking to "engage in a good wrestling debate" maybe calling everyone that disagrees with you a moron right off the bat isn't the best way to do it. It's funny that what you consider weak arguements make sense to the rest of the world. There is no debate when all everyone gets from you is "you're wrong,you're a moron."So again, If you ever get the opportunity to fuck off, don't let me hold you back. The world is your oyster young man, go be an asshole for the whole world. :wave:

P.S. Hi Heyman. :kiss:

[Destor]

lol

[Xero]

GIVE ME YOUR ADDRESS, MORON!

[sulzerdrone]

POWERED TOAST, MORMON!

[.44 Magdalene]

This thread is make it or break it for giving me your address, moron

[.44 Magdalene]

AND IT'S THE TAINT

[.44 Magdalene]

AND I CAN'T BELIEVE IT

[Destor]

:lol: must spread rep yadda yadda

[screech]

You are not a part of the solution....you are a part of the problem. Your actions indicate as such.

You are also a pathetic Dave Meltzer wannabe.

In my opinion, it is you who should shut up.

I have presented some high quality wrestling discussion tonight. What have you presented?

For the record, I think Meltzer is a piece of shit.

In my opinion, I don't give a damn about your opinion.

I have presented my awesomeness and my ability to spot a troll. Also, in many other threads, I have presented myself as an intelligent individual who knows how to carry on a discussion.

I know, I know, don't feed the trolls. That one had to be addressed, though.

[screech]

Also, this Casey Jones business is madness...

[screech]

MACHO MADNESS! OHHH YEAHHHH!

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[Casey Jones]

It's funny that what you consider weak arguements make sense to the rest of the world.

Few things:

1) To me, it did not make sense to not go "all out" on Jeff Hardy due to the fact that he had two strikes on his wellness policy. The rewards of pushing Jeff Hardy (correctly) far outweighed the risks. If Hardy fucked up, he could've been fired and nothing would have essentially been lost. The guys putting over Hardy (correctly) would have still had massive credibility, etc. For fucks sake, Triple H has jobbed cleanly to Benoit, Batista, and Cena and is STILL considered the guy to beat.

2) To me, it does not make sense to try and get a rising mid-card face over by having them go over in a non-clean way. Yes - it works....but it's far more effective to have one go over clean. I cited guys like Austin, HBK, and The Rock as good examples.

3) To me, it does not make sense to have the same guy win the MITB in consecutive years. In my opinion, it makes more sense to use MITB to elevate someone new. The winner of MITB, if he truly is over....like CM Punk was, should be pushed significantly enough to the point where he has a serious shot of winning the next year's Royal Rumble.

4) It does not make sense to me to "wait" on a wrestler and "wait" for the top stale main-event guys to step aside. To me, it makes far more sense for the WWE to "seize the open window" and push guys when they are getting tremendous crowd reactions....like the one Jeff Hardy was getting.

The window of opportunity does not often last very long. More times than not, if the 'window' is not seized (or not maximized or capitalized), it can take years before that window can be re-opened. Randy Orton is a perfect illustration of this.


However - if all of these things make sense to you, and everyone else apparently, then I stand by my allegations that you are a moron.

[Juan]

http://www.tpww.net/forums/image.php?u=298&dateline=1194536212

[Destor]

Why would you make your sock a mark?

[sulzerdrone]

http://www.tpww.net/forums/image.php?u=298&dateline=1194536212

Indeed.

[Casey Jones]

[QUOTE]For the record, I think Meltzer is a piece of shit.

For the record, you're a poor man's version of Dave Melzer. I just find it funny how you come on here and act like you are important...due to the fact that you have some kind of website...or radio show...or whatever the heck it is (I can't be bothered to find out). The bottom line however, is that you're a poser.

In my opinion, I don't give a damn about your opinion.

In my opinion, you do. Otherwise - you wouldn't have responded. In a lame attempt to prove that you don't care (to prove me wrong), I highly suspect that you won't respond to this post.

I have presented my awesomeness and my ability to spot a troll. Also, in many other threads, I have presented myself as an intelligent individual who knows how to carry on a discussion.

I am not a troll. I am also not this Heyman character that many posters keep referencing. I present my arguments and viewpoints, to the best of my ability. When I saw ill thought out opinions and irrelevant posts, I call people out on them.

I have seen posters such as BigdaddyCool do the same thing. By your definition, BigDaddyCool is also a troll....and yet he is one of the most respected posters on this forum.


That one had to be addressed, though.

Why? Because I striked a nerve with you due to the fact that you're insecure?

Cool.

[sulzerdrone]

Why would you make your sock a mark?

So you can troll. Sounds like a social experiment. He wants someone to flip out, I am happy to oblige. It's more fun than it looks.

[sulzerdrone]

BTW "Casey Jones" if you hadn't been so quick to call everyone morons, you might have been able to have a discussion. As soon as you started with that crap, it's not a debate, all discussion stops dead in it's tracks. Any other poster would have gotten the same response from me.

If you want to have a discussion, I'm more than happy to do so. You may be surprised to hear that I recognize some of your points as good ones. I don't agree with everything you say, and I don't have to. Call me a moron in the process of debating me, and it's debate over. Fuck off.

So in short. Hey man, if you want to discuss wrestling or anything else, I'm up for it. If you want to come in here and call me, and everyone else morons, well... Go fuck yourself gutter troll. :kiss:

[KYR]

BTW "Casey Jones" if you hadn't been so quick to call everyone morons, you might have been able to have a discussion. As soon as you started with that crap, it's not a debate, all discussion stops dead in it's tracks. Any other poster would have gotten the same response from me.

If you want to have a discussion, I'm more than happy to do so. You may be surprised to hear that I recognize some of your points as good ones. I don't agree with everything you say, and I don't have to. Call me a moron in the process of debating me, and it's debate over. Fuck off.

So in short. Hey man, if you want to discuss wrestling or anything else, I'm up for it. If you want to come in here and call me, and everyone else morons, well... Go fuck yourself gutter troll. :kiss:

Hang on a minute. Let's be fair here.

Aren't you now doing what you suggested Casey Jones has done to piss you off?

[KYR]

I actually agree with part of what <s>Heyman</s> Casey Jones says as well, but I don't want to get involved in a slanging match.

He makes some very valid points and if it weren't for the name calling this would be an excellent debate.

Casey Jones = Ratings...think about it.

[sulzerdrone]

Hang on a minute. Let's be fair here.

Aren't you now doing what you suggested Casey Jones has done to piss you off?

It could be veiwed that way, and you may be right. I'm simply stating the fact that I'm not going to debate a troll, and inviting him to piss off. I'm just pointing out that I'll discuss anything with anyone, but if he comes off as a prick I'm going to tell him to fuck off. Am I making any sense? I'm kinda tired and rambling a bit.

[Casey Jones]

Few things:

1) I am not Heyman

2) I am not here to win friends. I am here to prove why I believe my opinions are right. I have little tolerance for morons on here....and I saw a lot of them tonight. If a poster cannot raise their standards and post at the level that I expect, then I will call them on it...and will not hesitate to slander them. If they have a problem with me, I can always be put on ignore.

3) Know Your Role is correct in calling out sulzerdrone in his/her hypocrisy.

[Destor]

lol

[Destor]

We both know that I can SEE you're Heyman.

[Destor]

And Heyman, you're beneath me. I sorry if this excellence thing is part of your gimmick or what ever but really. You are. You don't understand half as much about wrestling as you think you do and quit frankly you would laughed at if you presented any of this to someone in the buisness.

You don't know shit. seriously. You are a mark. and a dumb one.

[ron the dial]

heyman you don't even try to change your posting style come on

[KYR]

http://www.fiftiesweb.com/tv/casey-jones-1.jpg

[sulzerdrone]

Sometimes you get what you give. I've seen you repeatedly shoot down posters as morons after one post. Again, that's not a debate. You've tried to force your opinions down everyones throats as being correct, refusing to even consider another opinion. You pissed me off when in the same sentence you agreed with me, and called me a moron. How else should I take that other than to invite you to fuck off?

[Casey Jones]

And Heyman, you're beneath me. I sorry if this excellence thing is part of your gimmick or what ever but really. You are. You don't understand half as much about wrestling as you think you do and quit frankly you would laughed at if you presented any of this to someone in the buisness.

You don't know shit. seriously. You are a mark. and a dumb one.

Few things:

1) It's ironic how you keep accusing me of being a troll, and yet you are the one doing most of the mud-slinging....non-wrestling related.

2) Enlighten me. Show me one dumb wrestling related thing that I have said thus far (in your opinion), and I will try and clarify my thought for you. After having done that, I will leave it up to the people whether they want to agree with me or agree with you. I give you full permission to conduct a poll or whatever. I have no problem backing up anything I say.

3) We are all marks. The difference between you and me is that you're a coward...and are afraid to present your opinions out of fear of being ridiculed. I on the other hand, challenge anyone to prove me wrong. I believe that I am right most of the time. If someone actually does prove me wrong, I acknowledge it...and am grateful for it...since I have become better. I even learned how to spell 'half-wit' correctly tonight. ;)

So yeah - find just one wrestling observation that you felt was retarded on my part, and I'll be happy to back it up.

Coward.

[Destor]

Jeff Hardy didn't beat the evil Triple H because they are holding him back. The glass ceiling is too thick. Boo waa. I don't care that he won the title it wasn't enough. They should of made Jeff Hardy the next Stone Cold and pushed him past the moon. I don't care that he was a threat to the company.

Yeah, you're rediculous.

[Destor]

Few things:

1) It's ironic how you keep accusing me of being a troll, and yet you are the one doing most of the mud-slinging....non-wrestling related.

2) Enlighten me. Show me one dumb wrestling related thing that I have said thus far (in your opinion), and I will try and clarify my thought for you. After having done that, I will leave it up to the people whether they want to agree with me or agree with you. I give you full permission to conduct a poll or whatever. I have no problem backing up anything I say.

3) We are all marks. The difference between you and me is that you're a coward...and are afraid to present your opinions out of fear of being ridiculed. I on the other hand, challenge anyone to prove me wrong. I believe that I am right most of the time. If someone actually does prove me wrong, I acknowledge it...and am grateful for it...since I have become better. I even learned how to spell 'half-wit' correctly tonight. ;)

So yeah - find just one wrestling observation that you felt was retarded on my part, and I'll be happy to back it up.

Coward.Nah, Im not arguing with a troll. Im just gonna poke and prod.

[Destor]

huge waste of time to "debate" with a troll.

[sulzerdrone]

I feel the need to apologize to the members of TPWW for my behavior tonight. I engaged in exactly the kind of activity that kept me from posting here for so long. Casey Jones, You do make some good points, you may want to work on your delivery. Sorry for having sunk to the level of a troll. I'll leave such activities to other posters in the future. If you want to call this a victory Heyman, go ahead. I'm just refusing to waste any more energy tonight on this crap. Good day to you sir.

[Casey Jones]

Destor's Strawman

Originally Posted by casey jones

Jeff Hardy didn't beat the evil Triple H because they are holding him back. The glass ceiling is too thick. Boo waa. I don't care that he won the title it wasn't enough. They should of made Jeff Hardy the next Stone Cold and pushed him past the moon. I don't care that he was a threat to the company.

Reality:

Jeff Hardy had tremendous momentum last year...and his star was clearly on the rise. Despite having two wellness policy violations, it still would have been in the WWE's best interests to push Jeff Hardy and capitalize on his rising star power. The rewards would have significantly outweighed the risks. If Jeff were to have gone over someone like Triple H cleanly at Summerslam, it would have done far more for his credibility as opposed to a non-clean win. Jeff would have become established as a long-term main-event star (and this ofcourse, is predicated on the fact that the WWE would have continued to push him right).

If Jeff had been dumb enough to violate the wellness policy for a 3rd time, then could easily be fired....and the WWE would go about their business as is....just as they did when Lesnar left the company, Goldberg left the company, etc., etc. Ya move on.

Winning the title is great, but it does NOT mean that you've become a long-term main-eventer and non-transitional champion. BIG difference.

[Destor]

Yeah so you're pissed cause they gave him the ball, but passed it wrong. Shut up please.

And again ignoring the threat putting him over that big makes him.

[Casey Jones]

Nah, Im not arguing with a troll. Im just gonna poke and prod.

So in other words, you aren't going to argue with a troll, but you'll just act like one instead. Nice. :y:

You're a pussy and a hypocrite.

If you ever change your mind, I'll be waiting.

[Destor]

fire him, no prob..right.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I know you are a troll, but ah well:

Fact: Noid and friends think that it would be a good idea if CM Punk won MITB next year.

My view: CM Punk should move on to bigger and better things. The WWE should seriously build him up this year and have him win the Royal Rumble. A guy like MVP could win MITB next year.

Fiction: I don't think CM Punk should win MITB next year. I think he should be in the Ladder Match, but I don't think he should win.

Fact: Noid thinks that an upper mid-card wrestler beating a top-tier wrestler NON-CLEAN is still epic.

My view: While the above is true, I feel that a CLEAN victory has far more meaning...and in Jeff Hardy's case, would have meant a lot more.

Fact: I do believe that a victory that is not perfectly clean can still sky-rocket a guy's popularity. Hell, Jeff Hardy rode victories over Triple H and The Undertaker into a WWE Title reign last year, which carried into this year.


Fact: Noid and friends think that the WWE should not have pushed Jeff Hardy to the moon due to the fact that he was on his 2nd wellness violation.

My view: Rewards outweighs the risks. If Jeff was given his "awesome and epic clean victory", a new long term main-event star would have been created. If he 'fucked up' afterwards and got his 3rd strike? No big deal. Can the guy. Move on. Just as they did with others in the past that left the company in one way or another (i.e. Lesnar, Goldberg, etc.).

I don't even know how to classify this: Some would say that Jeff Hardy was already pushed to the moon. I mean, all that was left for him to do was unify the titles at WrestleMania. This is despite Jeff Hardy being everything the WWE is trying to avoid with their wellness policy.

Do you understand that the WWE put this policy in place for a reason? Do you understand that someone who violates this policy isn't just an "oh well" to the WWE? This policy is in-place for a reason. Pretending it doesn't exist defeats the purpose of even having it.

Guys like Jeff Hardy and William Regal only have themselves to blame for their interrupted pushes. And Hardy was a fucking WWE Champion, anyway. Again, it is his choice to leave. The WWE actually want him to stay.

[Destor]

So in other words, you aren't going to argue with a troll, but you'll just act like one instead. Nice. :y:

You're a pussy and a hypocrite.

If you ever change your mind, I'll be waiting.
exactly actually. I have NO problem lowering myself to you standards

[Casey Jones]

[QUOTE]Yeah so you're pissed cause they gave him the ball, but passed it wrong.

You know what would have been awesome? It would've been awesome if at Wrestlemania 14, Triple H pedigreed Shawn Michaels and allowed Austin to get teh win!


And again ignoring the threat putting him over that big makes him.

Not ignoring the threat at all. The two strikes are obviously a major concern. However - I felt that the rewards would have still outweighed the risks.

Guys like Triple H, Edge, Cena, and Undertaker all have massive credibility and overness. Even if one of these guys were to hypothetically job to Hardy clean, only to then have Hardy shit the bed and get his 3rd strike.....and be released, no damage would have been done.

Triple H, Edge, Cena, or Taker would still have their massive overness and could still be used to put over some other guy at a certain point in the future.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I have seen posters such as BigdaddyCool do the same thing. By your definition, BigDaddyCool is also a troll....and yet he is one of the most respected posters on this forum.

Okay, now we REALLY know something is up.

Seriously, is this guy Heyman? Because if so, I wish Heyman would get on as fucking Heyman and make some good posts again. :(

[Mr. Nerfect]

[QUOTE=Destor;2512059]

You know what would have been awesome? It would've been awesome if at Wrestlemania 14, Triple H pedigreed Shawn Michaels and allowed Austin to get teh win!




Not ignoring the threat at all. The two strikes are obviously a major concern. However - I felt that the rewards would have still outweighed the risks.

Guys like Triple H, Edge, Cena, and Undertaker all have massive credibility and overness. Even if one of these guys were to hypothetically job to Hardy clean, only to then have Hardy shit the bed and get his 3rd strike.....and be released, no damage would have been done.

Triple H, Edge, Cena, or Taker would still have their massive overness and could still be used to put over some other guy at a certain point in the future.

Except, and this has happened in the past, guys like Triple H and The Undertaker, especially, find it a fucking insult when they are asked to lie down for a guy, and then that person leaves the company. Some say that the World Heavyweight Title was at least in-part created because Triple H didn't want to put over Lesnar so early in the guy's career.

Now, I am not saying that this is right, but you claim to understand the business. If you take chances with guys who bite your hand, fuck off, and leave your main eventers upset, then the next time you say "Hey, Taker, you're going to put over Dolph Ziggler on SmackDown! this week," do you really think his response will be "Sure! That sounds great!"

You say you want to see all these young stars elevated, but you do realise that everytime the WWE pushes one that fucks up, it fucks over the chances of every other young guy? It's not only the external problems you have to worry about, but your internal ones.

If you want to put all your eggs in the basket of a guy one strike from being out on his ass with your title belt, leaving him to go to TNA or something, pissing off your top guys who lost cleanly to him, then fine. See how long it lasts.

[Casey Jones]

[QUOTE]Fiction: I don't think CM Punk should win MITB next year. I think he should be in the Ladder Match, but I don't think he should win.

So in other words - you think CM Punk should take a step backwards.

I'm just trying to understand this correctly....since apparently, these types of arguments make sense to everyone on here except for me. :?:

-You want CM Punk to be in the ladder match (as opposed to being involved in a world title match of some kind.....or even going up against a guy like Undertaker or Triple H one-on-one even if it's a non-title match)

-You want CM Punk to be used to PUT OVER someone else.

I just want to make sure I understand you correctly.


I don't even know how to classify this: Some would say that Jeff Hardy was already pushed to the moon. I mean, all that was left for him to do was unify the titles at WrestleMania. This is despite Jeff Hardy being everything the WWE is trying to avoid with their wellness policy.

-A clean victory would have done more for this career.
-Not jobbing just a few months into his world title reign would've meant more.

We seem to have different interpretations of what being 'pushed to the moon' is.

I am of the opinion that winning the world title doesn't necessarily equate to becoming established as a LONG-TERM main-eventer.......despite whether one gets pushed to the moon or not.

Case in point(s): Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit, and Eddie Guerrero. All of these guys were "pushed to the moon" and won world titles, but all of these guys basically returned to their original spot on the cards a year or so later.

By contrast - look at guys like Dave Batista, John Cena, and Brock Lesnar. Look at what happened to Kurt Angle eventually. Edge is another guy (although even Edge and Angle were perceived as transitional champs for the longest time before they broke that barrier).

THAT is the type of push that I am talking about. Guys that make it to the top and STAY on top. Heck - even a douche like John Bradshaw Layfield became more than a "non-transitional" champ around 04-05.

Comprendez?



Do you understand that the WWE put this policy in place for a reason? Do you understand that someone who violates this policy isn't just an "oh well" to the WWE? This policy is in-place for a reason. Pretending it doesn't exist defeats the purpose of even having it.

I understand it. However, like I explained to Destor, I think the rewards would have outweighed the risks. If Hardy fucked up, he could've been fired. The guy that would have given him the 'clean win' (i.e. Taker, HHH, Edge) wouldn't have lost anything by doing the job. They would still be credible, and could still be used to put over someone else at a later date. No big loss.

Guys like Jeff Hardy and William Regal only have themselves to blame for their interrupted pushes. And Hardy was a fucking WWE Champion, anyway. Again, it is his choice to leave. The WWE actually want him to stay.

I'm finally glad we agree on something you dunce.

[Juan]

Good God, Heyman. GIVE IT UP FFS

[Mr. Nerfect]

So in other words - you think CM Punk should take a step backwards.

I'm just trying to understand this correctly....since apparently, these types of arguments make sense to everyone on here except for me. :?:

-You want CM Punk to be in the ladder match (as opposed to being involved in a world title match of some kind.....or even going up against a guy like Undertaker or Triple H one-on-one even if it's a non-title match)

-You want CM Punk to be used to PUT OVER someone else.

I just want to make sure I understand you correctly.

I made a thread on here recently asking people whether or not they thought that CM Punk being in the Money in the Bank Ladder Match two years running was a holding pattern for him. Most people agreed that it would not do the guy any harm.

Look, the guy is turning MITB into his event. Why can't he enter next year just to make it a hatrick? Why is competing in a match for a World Title shot a bad thing? And yes, Punk should lose, and someone will really be elevated by it. Don't you want to see new stars created?


-A clean victory would have done more for this career.
-Not jobbing just a few months into his world title reign would've meant more.

We seem to have different interpretations of what being 'pushed to the moon' is.

I am of the opinion that winning the world title doesn't necessarily equate to becoming established as a LONG-TERM main-eventer.......despite whether one gets pushed to the moon or not.

Case in point(s): Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit, and Eddie Guerrero. All of these guys were "pushed to the moon" and won world titles, but all of these guys basically returned to their original spot on the cards a year or so later.

By contrast - look at guys like Dave Batista, John Cena, and Brock Lesnar. Look at what happened to Kurt Angle eventually. Edge is another guy (although even Edge and Angle were perceived as transitional champs for the longest time before they broke that barrier).

THAT is the type of push that I am talking about. Guys that make it to the top and STAY on top. Heck - even a douche like John Bradshaw Layfield became more than a "non-transitional" champ around 04-05.

Comprendez?

Hey, maybe being a LONG-TERM main eventer means you stay in the company, you know, fucking long term as a main eventer? Jeff is choosing to leave. Also, having the guy headline the 25th WrestleMania would just have been awkward. Especially if the guy is not in the company tomorrow.

[thecc]

Case in point(s): Rey Mysterio, Chris Benoit, and Eddie Guerrero. All of these guys were "pushed to the moon" and won world titles, but all of these guys basically returned to their original spot on the cards a year or so later.Mysterio was jobbed out during his entire run as champ and he jobbed to Orton right before Mania.

[Destor]

[quote=Destor;2512059]

You know what would have been awesome? It would've been awesome if at Wrestlemania 14, Triple H pedigreed Shawn Michaels and allowed Austin to get teh win! Wouldn't have hurt autsin ability to draw one bit. He was drawing befroe they gave him the belt. And as long as H and HBM went into a hot program that made money it would matter.

You act lie Austin wasn't drawing UNTIL he went over big. How wrong are you.



Not ignoring the threat at all. The two strikes are obviously a major concern. However - I felt that the rewards would have still outweighed the risks.

Guys like Triple H, Edge, Cena, and Undertaker all have massive credibility and overness. Even if one of these guys were to hypothetically job to Hardy clean, only to then have Hardy shit the bed and get his 3rd strike.....and be released, no damage would have been done.

Triple H, Edge, Cena, or Taker would still have their massive overness and could still be used to put over some other guy at a certain point in the future.
What are the rewards? ONe extra guy maineventing cards that gonna draw the same ammount of money he was bofore?

The risks though? The risks are huge. On one hand if you build him up and have to fire him while he's the champ your buyrates could be fucked. What if he got poped the day of a PPV? He couldn't work that night, now you have you main event guy absent at the snap of a finger. Unlike Lesnar, Goldberg and even Van Dam this is a new threat for thrird strike. And with NO way to close off the story.

How about PR? A beast you seem to not even reconize. IN this post Benoit world, the last thing ANYONE needs is a world champion being terminiated for drugs.

Not to mention if you gacve him ethat rub he he turned around and got canned the worth he would be able to offer TNA is redic.

The perks of doing it there way? You got a guy who can draw and no ones toes get stepped on. ONce more, if he gets terminated it's truely no sweat as he never broke the glass ceiling AND the WWE can say they were monitoring him blah blah blah.

And all the while you rake in on this cash cow that is Jeff Harvey.

AND you make the same ammout of money.

Risks, huge. Rewards? Where.

[Destor]

Especially when you look at the fact that HES LEAVING THE COMPANY. Good call on their part. THis news bit basicsally proves they were right.

[Destor]

And just ftr, you're only butt hurt by this because you had a hard on for the guy. Because you're a Hardy mark. WWE saw something you didn't, and giving the fact the Hardy's ALREADY walking is a clear cut sign that they were right.

[Destor]

And just for the record, Hardy isn't walking away cause they didn't push him hard enough. Im sure he's tickled that he made it to the amazing hiegths he did. Im sure he's walking away because he has NO passion for the buisness and EVERYONE knows it.

[The Mackem]

Calm down Destor.

[Destor]

ok

[Dave Youell]

Trolls on teh forums?

http://www.garmentdistrict.com/store/popculture/southpark/cripple_sm.jpg

[lashlley 81]

Casey Jones. I read for 2 days about people being shitz on here. u are why people like me cant be taken seriously. I have read forums, i join from another ghey forum, but u make me want to destroy the IWC

[Mooияakeя™]

Casey Jones. I read for 2 days about people being shitz on here. u are why people like me cant be taken seriously. I have read forums, i join from another ghey forum, but u make me want to destroy the IWC

...but save a few people on a boat of salvation, right?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Destor just won this thread.

[bigdaddysuperfreak]

Not every wrestler can become a main event character and in the wwe its hard for the smaller guys to get that part. I dont think Jeff Hardy would make a great long term champion since he is not trustworthy enough to keep going in a story line.

[AJHayes]

I fully agree with Destor. As I stated when I repped him for this thread "You, sir, are a sexual monstrosity."

I would love to see him go to TNA. I enjoyed his work there before, and I would hope that he might give a few of the lazier stars a boot in the ass.

BUT

It's relatively obvious that Jeff is burnt out, he needs some down time. Maybe he can contribute better when he's recharged his batteries.

For now, lets just hope that Matt gets pushed right and kept in the main event picture. Like he should have been when I first began referring to Lita as the Rated R Herpes Scar. Maybe they could do a bit of storyline necromancy and have Edge and Matt work a program.

[screech]

Destor, you are the man :heart:

I don't think Casey Jones realizes how much fun it is for me to feed the trolls. What he sees as me being insecure, I see as having fun pissing on a moron's parade.

I don't know if I've said this already, but it I think it sucks that Hardy is leaving. He was always entertaining to me and I was glad he got his run with the big belt. Selfishly I want him to stay, but I don't want him to be doing it if he doesn't want to be there and give a hundred percent.

I'm gonna miss him, even if he ends up back in TNA (it's just not the same).

:wavesad:

[Xero]

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[The Gold Standard]

I'm gonna miss him, even if he ends up back in TNA (it's just not the same).

:wavesad:

I would love to see him more on WWE, I think it is worse for TNA to get him because it is just more of what makes TNA bad. Former WWE guys in TNA and not promoting your own guys. Jeff could have great matches with AJ and Daniels, but he will probably just feud with MEM if he goes to TNA

[Kane Knight]

Kinda Devil's Advocating here, but maybe they should have pushed Jeff to the ME scene. They push guys who aren't ready, guys who will never be ready, and guys who are injury prone. I mean, the ME scene on raw was so heavily built around Cena that his injury left them scrambling to fill a vacuum.

Now, I'm not saying that its necessarily a good thing to compound bad booking with bad booking. What I am saying is that I'm not sure it would have hurt, guiven the "power vacuum" issues they've had on both shows over the last couple of years. And if Cena's merch really is the reason they're pushing him, a Monster Jeff Hardy push might have done a lot more good than harm for WWE, even if he failed a piss test or quit on them halfway through.

Honestly, I wouldn't put Jeff near the ME scene ever, but WWE isn't interested in the way I'd book, so that doesn't really matter. By their own standards, Jeff Hardy is a valid main eventer. They've pushed guys who were leavbing, a guy who came back on a short stint from Hollywood, and guys who only make brief appearances and runs.

A Jeff Hardy title run may have been a dumb idea, but it really doesn't seem any dumber than the ideas WWE seems to think equal money in the bank.

[Chavo Classic]

2) I am not here to win friends. I am here to prove why I believe my opinions are right. I have little tolerance for morons on here....and I saw a lot of them tonight. If a poster cannot raise their standards and post at the level that I expect, then I will call them on it...and will not hesitate to slander them. If they have a problem with me, I can always be put on ignore.

I've never heard someone sound so proud to be a nerd. What's it like in your mom's basement? Give it a rest, log off the internet and go throw a football around - for your own good.

[Kane Knight]

I've never heard someone sound so proud to be a nerd. What's it like in your mom's basement? Give it a rest, log off the internet and go throw a football around - for your own good.

Come on...I can't be the only one who's seeing the pattern here.

[Casey Jones]

Summary of my points to Destor and fellow retards:

1) A clean win means far more than a non-clean win. Even in Austin's case, a clean win over HBK at WM-14 had more signficance...and made Austin look more credible...which probably helped contribute to him drawing more (although this obviously cannot be proven). On this note however - Austin was getting some clean victories over some credible opponents well before this anyways (as you alluded to, he was already huge well before then....but I didn't imply otherwise you idiot).

2) Just because a guy won't draw 7.0 ratings, is no excuse to not push new guys to the main-events. Jeff Hardy or no Jeff Hardy. You gave me reasons as to why Hardy shouldn't have been pushed. Great. Now tell me why guys like CM Punk, MVP, Santino Marella, etc. haven't been pushed much harder than they have been? Six years ago - why weren't guys like RVD, Jericho, and Booker T pushed more?....to the point where they were NON-TRANSITIONAL main-eventers? THIS is the problem that the WWE has right now. Their lack of an environment that allows for rising mid-carders to get to the main-event level in a short amount of time....and allowing wrestlers to become LONG TERM NON-TRANSITIONAL main-event guys.

3) If a guy like Kurt Angle didn't make a dimes difference to TNA (let alone Christian, Booker T, Dudleys, Rikishi, and other former WWE employees), then Jeff Hardy wouldn't make that much of an IMPACT on TNA either.....despite the rub.

The only guy in the industry right now that would make any significant short term impact on ratings, would be The Rock.....and I can't even use the term "only guy in the industry" when referring to him.

4) Did you ever consider the fact that the WWE might actually get PROPS from the media for firing their current WWE/World champ for drug useage?...especially during the era of the whole baseball scandal? You are still showing an inability to see BOTH sides of the argument.

5) There is a risk with everything....it's the nature of this business. Dave Batista had to vacate the title as champ due to injury. So what? Big deal - you move on. I re-iterate once again: Jeff should've been pushed....correctly. If he gets his 3rd strike, you fire him. There are huge risks with all wrestlers due to the nature of the business. In 1999, it was revealed that Austin needed serious neck surgery....and as result, wouldn't be able to compete in the triple threat match against Rock and HHH. Result? Big Show was inserted.


But again however - you seem to be missing my biggest point.

THIS IS NOT ENTIERELY ABOUT JEFF HARDY.

This is about creating an environment that can allow for rising mid-carders to "rise within the ranks" (in a short amount of time) and become LONG-TERM NON-TRANSITIONAL main-eventers.

What's the WWE's excuse when it comes to CM Punk? MVP? Christian? What was the WWE's excuse when it came to RVD back in the day? Tell me why these guys haven't been adequately pushed? Or weren't adequately pushed?



You have been defeated once again.

[IC Champion]

Pffft, it's just Heyman.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Kinda Devil's Advocating here, but maybe they should have pushed Jeff to the ME scene. They push guys who aren't ready, guys who will never be ready, and guys who are injury prone. I mean, the ME scene on raw was so heavily built around Cena that his injury left them scrambling to fill a vacuum.

Now, I'm not saying that its necessarily a good thing to compound bad booking with bad booking. What I am saying is that I'm not sure it would have hurt, guiven the "power vacuum" issues they've had on both shows over the last couple of years. And if Cena's merch really is the reason they're pushing him, a Monster Jeff Hardy push might have done a lot more good than harm for WWE, even if he failed a piss test or quit on them halfway through.

Honestly, I wouldn't put Jeff near the ME scene ever, but WWE isn't interested in the way I'd book, so that doesn't really matter. By their own standards, Jeff Hardy is a valid main eventer. They've pushed guys who were leavbing, a guy who came back on a short stint from Hollywood, and guys who only make brief appearances and runs.

A Jeff Hardy title run may have been a dumb idea, but it really doesn't seem any dumber than the ideas WWE seems to think equal money in the bank.

I get exactly what you are saying. Jeff Hardy is a cash cow, no doubt about it. But so is fucking Hornswoggle. You can't push a guy solely based on merchandise sales. Jeff moves a lot, true, but that is as the WWE has been pushing him. Jeff is a legitimate main eventer in the WWE. There is no reason he should not be happy with his current position on the card, especially given how much of a risk he has proven to be.

The WWE also let him have a run with the WWE Championship. So they didn't want the junkie to headline WrestleMania? That's not a big deal.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Summary of my points to Destor and fellow retards:

1) A clean win means far more than a non-clean win. Even in Austin's case, a clean win over HBK at WM-14 had more signficance...and made Austin look more credible...which probably helped contribute to him drawing more (although this obviously cannot be proven). On this note however - Austin was getting some clean victories over some credible opponents well before this anyways (as you alluded to, he was already huge well before then....but I didn't imply otherwise you idiot).

Yeah, clean wins do have more significance, but it is also the context of the clean wins. Sometimes they mark a changing of the post, and that is when it is entirely fair to have a guy bow out for a younger star. In the case of Jeff Hardy going over Triple H and The Undertaker, though, there had to be enough interest in rematches because both of those guys were sticking around in the title scene. They were merely throwing Jeff wins so he could build momentum heading into winning the WWE Title.

Jeff's wins weren't even entirely dirty. Sometimes he would get a pin because of a roll-up. It's still a fucking pin. He went over The Undertaker in an Extreme Rules Match he asked for. Those matches are all about who wins and who loses, not how it happens -- and Jeff Hardy won.

Plus, the man had the belt which was the right to make the statement "I am the best on SmackDown!." If that's not pushing someone, I don't know what is. So they didn't want to push Jeff Hardy like Austin or The Rock? That's fine, because Jeff Hardy is certainly not Austin or The Rock.

2) Just because a guy won't draw 7.0 ratings, is no excuse to not push new guys to the main-events. Jeff Hardy or no Jeff Hardy. You gave me reasons as to why Hardy shouldn't have been pushed. Great. Now tell me why guys like CM Punk, MVP, Santino Marella, etc. haven't been pushed much harder than they have been? Six years ago - why weren't guys like RVD, Jericho, and Booker T pushed more?....to the point where they were NON-TRANSITIONAL main-eventers? THIS is the problem that the WWE has right now. Their lack of an environment that allows for rising mid-carders to get to the main-event level in a short amount of time....and allowing wrestlers to become LONG TERM NON-TRANSITIONAL main-event guys.

Jeff Hardy was in the fucking main event, you douche. No one has really said that Jeff Hardy shouldn't get pushed. The fact is, the man was already getting a push. It just makes no sense to build the company entirely around the guy when he could be out of it tomorrow. When the WWE lost Brock Lesnar, they had to cover up by rushing John Cena to the main event. Do you really want another situation like that?

Half the guys you have listed did get their cracks in the main event, eventually. Sure, it came later than it should have, but it fucking came. And yes, it is a problem. Yes, the WWE books poorly, we get it. Booker T should have won the World Heavyweight Title at WrestleMania XIX; Rob Van Dam was over enough to have won the 2002 Royal Rumble; Chris Jericho's heel reign was awful. Yes, the WWE have missed the boat on some of their hottest acts (Matt Hardy and Christian in 2005, for example). But those men either all got their title reigns, or are building towards them now.

Then you've got guys like CM Punk getting pushed now. The guy will almost definitely hold another World Title by the year's end. MVP is on the rise, too. So are Shelton Benjamin and Jack Swagger. So many guys are getting pushed right now. There just has to be room. Getting rid of the junkies like Jeff Hardy opens up spots for someone like CM Punk to (again) take.

3) If a guy like Kurt Angle didn't make a dimes difference to TNA (let alone Christian, Booker T, Dudleys, Rikishi, and other former WWE employees), then Jeff Hardy wouldn't make that much of an IMPACT on TNA either.....despite the rub.

Wow, you just said that you wished guys weren't transitional champions, and then you go and list a bunch of transitional champions that didn't make a difference. Great. But how is that relevant if a guy like Jeff Hardy becomes THE FUCKING END ALL of the entire professional wrestling universe? Something which I don't think he can handle (evidently), as the guy is getting burnt out.

4) Did you ever consider the fact that the WWE might actually get PROPS from the media for firing their current WWE/World champ for drug useage?...especially during the era of the whole baseball scandal? You are still showing an inability to see BOTH sides of the argument.

No, because anyone could fucking look at the WWE's policy, see that Jeff Hardy had violated it twice before, and that the WWE pretty much put the title on a guy that could have taken the fall any day. Why have the fucking policy if the WWE displays the behaviour that it really doesn't care what its employees do, and is only punishing them as a formality?

I've considered whether or not the WWE should creatively punish talent creative for failing wellness tests, but when one really thinks about it, there has to be some sort of creative penalty. The top guy of the company needs to be dependable. You need to be able to trust them to be a good face for all facets of the company -- and at present that means them pissing clean. If John Cena violated the wellness policy, I'd suggest that he put over some fresh faces. I'd suggest the same thing if Shawn fucking Michaels did it.

That doesn't mean that Jeff Hardy getting another World Title again was out of the question. But it definitely isn't the company's best move to put him at the forefront of the company, and then have him out of it the next day, making them look like shifty customers.

5) There is a risk with everything....it's the nature of this business. Dave Batista had to vacate the title as champ due to injury. So what? Big deal - you move on. I re-iterate once again: Jeff should've been pushed....correctly. If he gets his 3rd strike, you fire him. There are huge risks with all wrestlers due to the nature of the business. In 1999, it was revealed that Austin needed serious neck surgery....and as result, wouldn't be able to compete in the triple threat match against Rock and HHH. Result? Big Show was inserted.

There is a massive leap between injuries making guys temporarily unavailable to fulfill their duties, and a guy bringing a black cloud over the company by embarrassing them in public face by getting his ass fired while he is advertised for future events, and is meant to be the role model of the company.

Jeff Hardy was pushed correctly all things considered, anyway. He wasn't pushed flat-out harder than anyone in the history of the business; but if the WWE did that with every guy they wanted to touch gold, it wouldn't mean anything when the next Austin or Rock came along.

But again however - you seem to be missing my biggest point.

THIS IS NOT ENTIERELY ABOUT JEFF HARDY.

This is about creating an environment that can allow for rising mid-carders to "rise within the ranks" (in a short amount of time) and become LONG-TERM NON-TRANSITIONAL main-eventers.

What's the WWE's excuse when it comes to CM Punk? MVP? Christian? What was the WWE's excuse when it came to RVD back in the day? Tell me why these guys haven't been adequately pushed? Or weren't adequately pushed?

Um, yes it is entirely about Jeff Hardy. This is a thread about Jeff Hardy feeling burnt out and wanting to go home. This is about the flake that got himself suspended twice, and used to no-show events. This is about the Jeff Hardy who has been on good behaviour for a while, but obviously feels like he can't keep it up at present.

Not every mid-carder needs to be elevated. Yes, some have all the tools to make it. Someone like CM Punk can wrestle, can talk, and has marketability. You've got guys on the roster like MVP, Christian and Mr. Kennedy who can do all of that. Hey, they also don't fail wellness tests. Well, okay, Mr. Kennedy does...

The thing is, someone like MVP puts up with a losing streak gimmick, keeps his head down, and is now emerging as a guy the WWE can trust, and can put the WWE Title on eventually. Someone like Jeff Hardy comes up with two suspensions, and then expects to be made WWE Champion, according to you? Look, I don't even think that's what happened. The truth is, Jeff Hardy cannot handle the business. He's not smart about the business, and he's just not good enough to demand the World Title like so many others.

Stone Cold Steve Austin -- his presence and popularity demanded that he go over Shawn Michaels cleanly and win the WWE Title. Jeff Hardy never had that kind of dynamic presence, and probably never will. Yes, the WWE should be more encouraging of their mid-carders, but Jeff Hardy was well above that level.

[FourFifty]

Kinda Devil's Advocating here, but maybe they should have pushed Jeff to the ME scene. They push guys who aren't ready, guys who will never be ready, and guys who are injury prone. I mean, the ME scene on raw was so heavily built around Cena that his injury left them scrambling to fill a vacuum.

Now, I'm not saying that its necessarily a good thing to compound bad booking with bad booking. What I am saying is that I'm not sure it would have hurt, guiven the "power vacuum" issues they've had on both shows over the last couple of years. And if Cena's merch really is the reason they're pushing him, a Monster Jeff Hardy push might have done a lot more good than harm for WWE, even if he failed a piss test or quit on them halfway through.

Honestly, I wouldn't put Jeff near the ME scene ever, but WWE isn't interested in the way I'd book, so that doesn't really matter. By their own standards, Jeff Hardy is a valid main eventer. They've pushed guys who were leavbing, a guy who came back on a short stint from Hollywood, and guys who only make brief appearances and runs.

A Jeff Hardy title run may have been a dumb idea, but it really doesn't seem any dumber than the ideas WWE seems to think equal money in the bank.

Good point, KK

[Kane Knight]

Pffft, it's just Heyman.

Or, to sum it up:

HP;DR

[DAMN iNATOR]

Well, I hate to see him go, as he obviously has incredible talent, even enough to win the WWE title, even if it was just once, and only for a month. On the other hand I'm getting kinda sick of seeing his ass wear stupid face-paint that makes no sense everytime he wrestles...I like glow-in-the-dark type stuff (who doesn't), but when it's G-I-T-D face paint on Jeff Hardy? That just almost makes it too obvious to everyone who watches his matches just what a weird-ass pothead he truly is deep down.

So feeling sorta 50/50 about this news.

[Theo Dious]

Good point, KK

[Theo Dious]

I don't know if anyone is reading for real in this thread anymore or just navigating the flames. But.

If Jeff is feeling burnt out, I'm glad he's leaving in this fashion. Far better than him blowing the elephant by getting caught on another drug charge, or doing some kind of permament damage to himself. He had a great push to the title that made for some great watching, and finally had a fued that didn't suck ass with Matt. Jeff seems like he'll forever have a greater connection with and following from the fans, but I think it's been obvious for some time that Matt has the greater love for the business and is the one who lives and breathes it. Jeff is an artist with a very short attention spans... it seems he does what he does hard and passionately, but isn't going to settle down very long on any one project. I won't be surprised if we see him back in a year or two, but he may be done at this point, minus a few sporadic appearances here and there.