Philly Crowds

[mike adamle]

I've been noticing that Philly crowds just seem to be dead lately. What happened? They're dead in ROH when they're getting good matches. They're dead in TNA when they're getting shitty matches. Back in ECW if your match sucked you heard about it. What happened?

[Rammsteinmad]

Philly has lost it's smile.

[#1-norm-fan]

And uh... It's going to go home now.

[Anybody Thrilla]

http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/ARNeDZdtsPQ/hqdefault.jpg

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Most of the Philly fans stopped watching when it was all shit, now even when there is something good they don't care.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I think the official moment the Philly crowd died was when Batista faced the Big Show at Hammerstein.

[#1-norm-fan]

I just think there's a difference between a "Philly crowd" and an "ECW Philly crowd".

Sure there are SOME pieces of the ECW crowd in the Philly crowd but not enough to mark any significant change from a typical wrestling crowd.

[Xero]

I just think there's a difference between a "Philly crowd" and an "ECW Philly crowd".

Sure there are SOME pieces of the ECW crowd in the Philly crowd but not enough to mark any significant change from a typical wrestling crowd.

Not entirely true. The Philly market, along with New York and Chicago are notorious for their hot crowds. Even in the shittiest of times, from what I've seen, they're hot.

I haven't noticed this "dead crowd", but I haven't really been paying attention.

[TechSmartLiving]

Look, I live in Philly.. Been through the original ECW generation in the 90s and loved every moment. I'm gonna give a little insight.

For starters, the "ECW Philly crowd" is still around. We were teen/20/30 year olds who loved the unique style. It's been over 14 years from the "good" times in ECW, and now some are over 40. Their time of the dudes in tights dancing (even if it's hardcore) didn't go away, but the uniqueness did. It's like EVERY other organization out there is "hardcore" and has that "we can do whatever we want" attitude. The problem is its not any different from each other.

Secondly, the original ECW was a once in a lifetime thing. We loved the feeling of going to Front Street to see a three hour dance that will live in our minds and hearts forever. We know it can't be relived, and it won't ever.

Speaking of reliving the past ... As soon as the new ECW (even as soon as the WWE purchased their assets) came about, it was just another hour of WWE programming. Others tried and are still trying to imitate the past, and it can't be done.

Why have we died down? Well, for exactly what reasons are not known, but I can say we need different, we need uniqueness; we can't have another ECW lookalike.

CZW was cool at the begining; ROH was really awesome at the beginning; 3PW at its time was almost there, EVEN TNA had something going the first time they came. But nothing will ever capture our hearts as 1993-2000 used to.

No matter how old we are now, we still love the dance, and always will. We just need something different.

[Chavo Classic]

... But nothing will ever capture our hearts as 1993-2000 used to.

No matter how old we are now, we still love the dance, and always will. We just need something different.

Pfft, what a mark. Like it's the end of the world or something :nono:

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Pfft, what a mark.

You say that like it's a bad thing. ECW was the last real thing that truly let me be a mark for an extended period of time. I had stopped watching all together and then ECW pulled me back in and I loved it. Sure there are still things that give me flashes of "being a mark", Shawn Michaels vs Undertaker being an example. But there is nothing that let's me love wrestling anymore like I used too. And that sucks...

[TechSmartLiving]

Pfft, what a mark. Like it's the end of the world or something :nono:

Absolutely. I'm a huge mark for that era. I hope it happens again.. I really do. And I speak for a lot of Philly fans who think the same.

[mike adamle]

Appreciate all the responses, was really hoping to get a native Philly in here, glad I did.

[screech]

I also live in Philly and I don't think the crowds lately have been "dead" at all.

The crowds just aren't as excited as they were during the original ECW days because they're isn't anything like that anymore. The crowds were hot because of the unique action they were seeing. Now when a show comes to Philly, if that same action isn't seen, the crowd is disappointed because they're used to seeing crazy stuff happen all the time.

In a sense, the original ECW "spoiled" a lot of Philly fans, so they're not as excited because they still want flaming tables and the like. No matter how good it is, it won't measure up to expectations.

So it's not that the crowds are dead, it's that they seem dead by comparison. And in my opinion, the crowd was pretty damn hot for the ROH shows last month.

[screech]

Hope that makes sense. I may edit it later.

[mike adamle]

I see your point, the thing that really stuck out to me though about these crowds is Lockdown. It was a fairly disappointing and boring PPV. Since this was Philadelphia i figured the crowd would bash on them hard. Instead we barley heard anything. That's more of what I'm talking about. I guess my question is what happened to the overly critical Philadelphia crowds, because I totally understand that there's nothing that can compare to original ECW that will make everyone mark.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I think the official moment the Philly crowd died was when Batista faced the Big Show at Hammerstein.
That's in New York, boyeeee.

[TechSmartLiving]

TNA still hasn't proved much, and honestly, just one showing before lockdown in philly (at the original ECW Arena) a few months before hand just doesn't cut it. hey, I mean the original ECW (I mean Eastern Championship Wrestling) didn't get crowds on their side until they had a lot more shows and something to give to philly. Just visiting once in a while doesn't cut it either.

Give us TNA atleast every other week or even month and we would then show some compassion (good AND bad)

[Supreme Olajuwon]

well that's a pretty arrogant attitude to have

[TechSmartLiving]

... because I totally understand that there's nothing that can compare to original ECW that will make everyone mark.

Well, not entirely. I mean, there are plenty of things that can happen in the future of Pro Wrestling that can have fans mark out more and bigger than the original ECW. It's just not known or done yet. But years or maybe even weeks (who knows) from now it may just happen. I think all of us could be creative writers for any wrestling organization and write a compelling story that could mark anyone out .. but the people in the seats right now just haven't come up with it.

What would be great (even through this topic has gone totally off of the original purpose and more towards about ECW) would be a Paul Heyman return and make ECW again. Maybe not what it used to be, but just something better than what it is now, and it would mark me out because, well, Paul Heyman would be there and it would make the difference. But that's a topic for another thread.

[TechSmartLiving]

well that's a pretty arrogant attitude to have

It's true though. Philly isn't like every other nice town and city. We are an arrogant group who wants to see some great action .. and you know, we want it all the time. We are like that with all our sports teams, and wrestling is no different.

[screech]

With Lockdown, I'm willing to bet that more actual TNA fans attended than typical Philly wrestling fans. If the hardcore fan base did go, they were probably unsure of what to think having never seen TNA, or it was so awful that they were not even interested enough to rip them apart.

I wasn't there so I could be totally wrong, but that's what I think was the case at Lockdown.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

It's true though. Philly isn't like every other nice town and city. We are an arrogant group who wants to see some great action .. and you know, we want it all the time. We are like that with all our sports teams, and wrestling is no different.
Yeah but other big towns like Chicago, New York, and Toronto put together energetic crowds but don't get pissy if they don't get a show every other week.

[TechSmartLiving]

With Lockdown, I'm willing to bet that more actual TNA fans attended than typical Philly wrestling fans. If the hardcore fan base did go, they were probably unsure of what to think having never seen TNA, or it was so awful that they were not even interested enough to rip them apart.

I wasn't there (so glad) so I could be totally wrong, but that's what I think was the case at Lockdown.

Well there were some hardcore fans there; you could hear them during the Team3D match and before during their promo out in the concession area. There were lots of EC Dubb chants, but just not enough. Plus, I mean, seriously, a University center isn't the best if you are looking for hardcore fans. Do a PPV from the ECW Arena or even some other small bingo hall, and I guarantee you'll get some rowdy, drunk, overweight bunch of hardcore addicts from the past back... and they WILL rock the house down with them!

[TechSmartLiving]

Yeah but other big towns like Chicago, New York, and Toronto put together energetic crowds but don't get pissy if they don't get a show every other week.

Dude, you're not from Philly. You don't know how F'N crazy we are. We are different than NY, different than Chicago, and definately different than Toronto. We are a unique crowd, and no one has come close to getting the right combination for getting philly rowdy ... Big money is in two places, NY and Philly. And guess what? WWE does more Madison Square Garden events in a year than the Wachovia Center! That's why NY isn't crying! Check it!

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Just because you're "F'N crazy" doens't mean you're entitled to anything extra. It's a global market. They're not going to pander to a small group of ECW holdovers and anyone who thinks they should is retarded.

[screech]

I don't think having it all the time is that big of an issue. I think it's more that Philly fans have very high expectations because of the crazy action that was seen on a regular basis in the ECW days. If the shows that do come to town are great, like the ROH shows, then fans will be satisfied with them. The TNA event was horrible by any standards, and the crowd really couldn't care less.

Quality over quantity, in my opinion.

[screech]

And the venue really shouldn't matter. If the show is promoted well enough, and can bring good action, people will go see it and react accordingly.

[Xero]

And the venue really shouldn't matter. If the show is promoted well enough, and can bring good action, people will go see it and react accordingly.

Case in point: The Attitude Era. During that period, whether on the WWF, WCW or ECW side, 90% of the crowds were red hot no matter where they were.

It just so happens that Philly and the others listed in this thread are huge wrestling towns, so they tend to be hot for almost anything that doesn't COMPLETELY suck. And if they do, they usually find their own fun.

[TechSmartLiving]

I'm not saying it's right or wrong. You just can't have one event a year and expect a crowd to be immense. Just give us something to cheer for. Seriously, forget Philly for a moment. If you go to a city that is known for sticklers for fans, give them what they expect and want. We've seen the hardcore style for over 15 years, we've seen the great Japanese style matches. Give us what more, give us something different; that's all.

Like I said, TNA came close to it on their first visit. They messed up on Lockdown. They could definately redeem themselves if they got they right formula of wrestlers and matches set. Booking on a Philly event is different and needs to be that way to grab our attention.

[Xero]

Booking in TNA on a whole needs to be different. Period.

[TechSmartLiving]

Case in point: The Attitude Era. During that period, whether on the WWF, WCW or ECW side, 90% of the crowds were red hot no matter where they were.

It just so happens that Philly and the others listed in this thread are huge wrestling towns, so they tend to be hot for almost anything that doesn't COMPLETELY suck. And if they do, they usually find their own fun.

Absolutely! The Attitude Era may have had EVERYONE marked out at least sometime in the 90s for someone/something they did.

It's the creative things done then that people all over (not just philly) need again.

[screech]

Case in point: The Attitude Era. During that period, whether on the WWF, WCW or ECW side, 90% of the crowds were red hot no matter where they were.

It just so happens that Philly and the others listed in this thread are huge wrestling towns, so they tend to be hot for almost anything that doesn't COMPLETELY suck. And if they do, they usually find their own fun.

I was just about to bring up the Attitude Era.

[Triple Naitch]

The TNA PPV bombed here in Philly. Hell, they had it at Temple University. They were handing out tickets on the radio like hotcakes. I have yet to meet a single TNA fan here.

[screech]

Booking in TNA on a whole needs to be different. Period.

:y::y::y:

[TechSmartLiving]

The TNA PPV bombed here in Philly. Hell, they had it at Temple University. They were handing out tickets on the radio like hotcakes. I have yet to meet a single TNA fan here.

LOL. You know, its true. I received two tickets for the event, and couldn't sell them. No one wanted them. I couldn't, no way wouldn't spend the $100 for a seat at Lockdown knowing they weren't prepared with a better booking for that day. You know, speaking of it.. Let's give the Lashley example. If it wasn't Lashley and was lets say, The Blue Meanie or someone attached to Philly, then the marks would have come out. But they didn't. They didn't think of their fans or their audience!

[screech]

I feel like if TNA had come to Philly when they were starting out, when guys like Styles, Daniels, Amazing Red, etc. were highlighting the cards, the crowd would have eaten it up. I know they didn't really have the star power they do now, but they had great action which is what Philly fans flip shit for no matter who comes to town.

Also, a TNA event around that time would have been great for the ECW arena.

[TechSmartLiving]

But see, thats where Xero said that venue doesn't matter. In part I agree and disagree. TNA could have had the philly fans in their hands like ECW was, but instead are going towards the old WCW route. And also trying to be all popular nationally really quick. Problem is, they are falling apart with the whole new creative idea of the day and being inconsistent.

[screech]

And the venue really shouldn't matter.

I was making the point in my later post that TNA didn't have the star power at the time to warrant being in an arena like the Wachovia Center or even Temple. For how well they were known back then (in Philly), the ECW arena would have been the only one in town they could have gotten.

[TechSmartLiving]

True, true! but wouldn't that have brought down their credibility and seen as just an indy trying something that every other company has tried in philly? it's like a double standard, catch 22.

[screech]

It could have gone that way, yes.

But it also could have been seen as trying to get mainstream exposure and doing it in a big wrestling town. Imagine if they would have done PPV events, or even TV tapings, in Philly when they were just starting. Why do you think ROH did their first set of HDNet tapings in Philly?

[screech]

Unfortunately, I must be off now. I am seeing X-Men Origins tonight to celebrate my roommate's birthday. Guess this means I can't whore up the RAW thread :(

[TechSmartLiving]

Haha.. I think this was a good thread. Really made me go back to the good times. We definitely need that again!

OH, and PPVs at the ECW Arena again .. It would be awesome. WWE needs an actual live show from there..just one. They did one ECW show there back when the new ECW was first forming with Heyman. It was awesome, had front row. They taped it and prob. will NEVER air it ever!