Does Santino Marella have main event potential?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yes, Santino Marella is a comedic character. At the moment, it is hard to take him seriously when he steps into a ring. Given how over and entertaining the character is, and given how capable the performer behind it is, could and should amendments be made over time to slowly build Marella up to a higher level of credibility?

[Lock Jaw]

Anything can happen in the WWE.













:shifty:

[Anybody Thrilla]

I wish, but I'm thinking not at all.

[Xero]

He's too far gone at this point. Santino is what Eugene has become. They can TRY to repackage him but it won't work. He'll always be the goofy Italian who nobody takes seriously.

[James Steele]

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f105/TwistedSteeleEntertainment/edge-noid-postcopy.jpg

[James Steele]

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f105/TwistedSteeleEntertainment/edge-lol-noidcopy.jpg

[James Steele]

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f105/TwistedSteeleEntertainment/edge-ibetyoulovedickscopy.jpg

[James Steele]

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f105/TwistedSteeleEntertainment/edge-insertwittycommentcopy.jpg

[Mr. Nerfect]

He's too far gone at this point. Santino is what Eugene has become. They can TRY to repackage him but it won't work. He'll always be the goofy Italian who nobody takes seriously.

You don't think it's possible at all?

[Mr. Nerfect]

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f105/TwistedSteeleEntertainment/edge-insertwittycommentcopy.jpg

That'd be a first from you, James.

[Xero]

You don't think it's possible at all?

It has as much chance of happening as Val Venis, Doug Basham and Eugene debuting and going over bigger than the nWo in TNA.

[KYR]

No chance in hell.

Yes I understand the irony of this statement but it is what I truly believe.

[Lock Jaw]

The only way I could see it happening is if there happens to be a rash of injuries/retirements that leave them scrambling for someone to push.

[Rammsteinmad]

In all fairness anyone can go from comedic to serious overnight. Just have Marella snap and beat the shit out of someone, and then say he's sick of being used as a comedy mid-card guy who isn't allowed to live up to his full potential.

The only problem with this is that a couple of years down the line he's bound to return to comedy, which then makes everything he said a load of bollocks.

[Not Booked]

In all fairness anyone can go from comedic to serious overnight. Just have Marella snap and beat the shit out of someone, and then say he's sick of being used as a comedy mid-card guy who isn't allowed to live up to his full potential.

The only problem with this is that a couple of years down the line he's bound to return to comedy, which then makes everything he said a load of bollocks.

Shouldn't be a problem. WWE fans have a memory of 3 weeks. Max. :)

[DaVe]

No.

[Mr. Nerfect]

In all fairness anyone can go from comedic to serious overnight. Just have Marella snap and beat the shit out of someone, and then say he's sick of being used as a comedy mid-card guy who isn't allowed to live up to his full potential.

The only problem with this is that a couple of years down the line he's bound to return to comedy, which then makes everything he said a load of bollocks.

I don't even think they need to make Marella completely serious. He just needs a little credibility in the ring. Outside of the ring, guys like Kurt Angle, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Jericho, Edge and even The Rock had comedic personas.

I mean, he's already doing well for the role he has. He's a two-time IC Champion, and the performer became Miss WrestleMania (I know that's not something to really brag about). My point is, for a loser, he wins a lot.

Can't they just have him allude to training with his martial arts friend, Roberto, and have him start mixing his MMA stuff into his matches?

[GD]

He might get a run after the U.S title but nothing more than that.

[Anybody Thrilla]

In all fairness anyone can go from comedic to serious overnight. Just have Marella snap and beat the shit out of someone, and then say he's sick of being used as a comedy mid-card guy who isn't allowed to live up to his full potential.

Have you no respect for kayfabe?

[Innovator]

No

[Hanso Amore]

Not a normal Main Eventer...he will never be a title contender.

But with a Face Turn he could easily be a top3 face. Fans would eat him up.

[Hanso Amore]

I meant top 5.

[Lock Jaw]

No.

No

http://www.wweenperu.com/2008/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/tomko-1.jpg

[Rammsteinmad]

Have you no respect for kayfabe?

Of course, but sometimes breaking kayfabe makes things more interesting.

[Anybody Thrilla]

The kids wouldn't understand.

[thedamndest]

<img src="http://www.clarklings.com/uploaded_images/IMG_0413-781026.JPG">
You must be THIS TALL to ride the MAIN EVENT.

[redoneja]

The simple answer is no.

[Mooияakeя™]

No.

[FourFifty]

Not with the Santino persona. He'll have to break kay-fabe then bust out with his shoot fighting skills.

[Afterlife]

He's too far gone at this point. Santino is what Eugene has become. They can TRY to repackage him but it won't work. He'll always be the goofy Italian who nobody takes seriously.

Like when The Hurricane became Gregory Helms.

[Droford]

Santina winning the Diva title wont count will it?

[Xero]

Like when The Hurricane became Gregory Helms.

You mean ECW's NUMBA WAN ANNOUNCA!?

[Afterlife]

You mean ECW's NUMBA WAN ANNOUNCA!?

No. I mean the longest reigning Cruiserweight Champion, Gregory Helms. The guy who was nearly (emphasis on nearly) unbeatable before he broke his neck.

[Xero]

The only reason he held the title so long was because there was no proper Cruiser division so they just parked it on him.

Holding a title doesn't equate to main event potential, which is what I was referring to. I do think Santino COULD break away, but not anywhere near a main event spot.

[RVDmark]

You never really know.

Did Stunning Steve Austin ever look like a main event player? (Actually a question I didnt watch back then), Or Rocky Maivia?

Ok, they werent stuck in Santino's gimmick, but did you ever really look at them as main event, honestly?

They seem to be breaking away from the whole Santina thing, and at least he got on to Wrestlemania, and the Raw opening video.

I believe he could be Main Event potential. If the crowd really like a few things he does, he could get a push based on crowd reaction alone. For a heel, he isnt exactly boo'd a lot.

I think he would need more luck than most, but it certainly isnt out of the realms of possibility at this stage. If he starts getting drug suspensions then I would say no, but as he hasnt so far iirc, I'd say he's in with a fair shot.

His ring work isnt bad, his mic skills are very good, and his demeanor and awareness of his gimmick are superb. Its the little touches he does, like stealing king's sandwich, and his mannerisms that make him stand out. He is very similar to the rock in that respect, and that is a big part of what it takes to get over in my opinion.

[Afterlife]

The only reason he held the title so long was because there was no proper Cruiser division so they just parked it on him.

Holding a title doesn't equate to main event potential, which is what I was referring to. I do think Santino COULD break away, but not anywhere near a main event spot.

And I was talking about going from a comical/bizarre gimmick/persona into a noteworthy threat.

[KYR]

Sort of like Rosie huh?

:shifty:

[KYR]

'Cause you know he's gone from this...

http://www.wildsamoan.com/SuperHeroHEADSHOT.jpg

[KYR]

..to this...

[#1-norm-fan]

Yes he can but I doubt he will.

I hate the whole "denouncing the gimmick" idea though (Sorry 'Noid).

I would have him just keep losing and be the comedy character but get fed up with losing matches and go train to fight. Maybe bring in some semi-famous legit fighter, throw in some comedy vignettes of Santino training for weeks. Eventually he has his big re-debut as a fighter and just tears someone apart all the while, just looking around shocked at his new found skills. Have him just keep the comedy gimmick and surprise himself and everyone else match after match.

I would love to see him keep the gimmick but still somehow be intimidating as hell in the ring. It's far from impossible and would be one of the more intriguing characters in wrestling.

Of course, this won't happen but it would be easy to pull off/awesome.

[Krimzon7]

In all fairness anyone can go from comedic to serious overnight. Just have Marella snap and beat the shit out of someone, and then say he's sick of being used as a comedy mid-card guy who isn't allowed to live up to his full potential.

The only problem with this is that a couple of years down the line he's bound to return to comedy, which then makes everything he said a load of bollocks.
I agree, the only way this could happen is if Santino had a 'curtain jerk' type of shoot where he shits on having to do this Santino Gimmick, and says that he doesn't care what the writers give him, he's gonna earn some respect. and then beats the shit out of the midcard.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Yes he can but I doubt he will.

I hate the whole "denouncing the gimmick" idea though (Sorry 'Noid).

I would have him just keep losing and be the comedy character but get fed up with losing matches and go train to fight. Maybe bring in some semi-famous legit fighter, throw in some comedy vignettes of Santino training for weeks. Eventually he has his big re-debut as a fighter and just tears someone apart all the while, just looking around shocked at his new found skills. Have him just keep the comedy gimmick and surprise himself and everyone else match after match.

I would love to see him keep the gimmick but still somehow be intimidating as hell in the ring. It's far from impossible and would be one of the more intriguing characters in wrestling.

Of course, this won't happen but it would be easy to pull off/awesome.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, I don't think I ever suggested denouncing the gimmick. I think what you suggested is pretty much exactly what I suggested (I used the name "Roberto" as a throw to Bobby Lashley, who started off as Santino's friend). Have him bring the skills in the ring while keeping the character.

[Afterlife]

Sort of like Rosie huh?

:shifty:

Rosie got too fat and was a health risk. Thus, his release. Also pretty sure he was on a season of The Biggest Loser to help him lose said fatness.

[Afterlife]

I also think Santino could "get better" just from a series of pep talks. Or even a Bob Holly/Cody Rhodes kind of series, where one guy is fed up with watching Santino get smashed week after week when he knows Santino has such potential. Have this person put it in Santino's head that he should stop being a loser and get serious. Ideally, this person -- and I just thought of this -- would be Lance Storm. He could even become Santino's manager for about 3 months, and then go back to his retirement saying "You don't need me anymore". Just a sudden thought. But I think it could work smoothly, Lance or otherwise.

[Krimzon7]

This is pretty cool, AFTERLIFE

[thedamndest]

Even if he drops the comedy gimmick he is still about half a foot short of being a main eventer by WWE standards.

[Afterlife]

Even if he drops the comedy gimmick he is still about half a foot short of being a main eventer by WWE standards.

Like Jericho, or Michaels. Or Mysterio.

[Mr. Nerfect]

Don't forget that Eddie Guerrero guy who never did anything.

[Afterlife]

Too late; I have.

[Afterlife]

Also, none of them were ever funny.

[Santino=Greatness]

SANTINO WILL BE HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION!

[KYR]

What? He's gone to TNA????? :eek:

[thedamndest]

Like Jericho, or Michaels. Or Mysterio.

The list of guys at Santino's height that have gone on to do nothing is much longer than the exceptions you have listed.

[KYR]

I don't recognise that third name either :?:

[DarKCentaur]

I think they're referring to Tito Santana

[Afterlife]

The list of guys at Santino's height that have gone on to do nothing is much longer than the exceptions you have listed.

That's kind of moot, Theddy. How many people have made it to the top, regardless of weight class, compared to the number of wrestlers that never do? There may not be as many 5 footers as 6 footers, but there's also been more 6 footers in the WWF/E, I would imagine.

[thedamndest]

Why is that moot? If you are small you don't get pushed as a main eventer. There are a few exceptions to this and all of those guys were "old school" guys. There is no reason to suppose the WWE will have a change of heart and become more accomodating to the shorter man.

[thedamndest]

Also, consider the following: Santino is only over right now because of his comedy. It's pretty risky to take that away and make him a serious character. Look at Kozlov. He's pretty much what Santino would have been if Santino had used his OVW gimmick. Now, obviously Santino wouldn't and couldn't use that exact gimmick now that he's been Santino, but that type of gimmick would be some indication of what Santino would go towards if you nixed his comedic shtick. He's years away from being as good as he would need to be to be over on ability alone.

[Mercury Bullet]

No

[Afterlife]

Why is that moot? If you are small you don't get pushed as a main eventer. There are a few exceptions to this and all of those guys were "old school" guys. There is no reason to suppose the WWE will have a change of heart and become more accomodating to the shorter man.

I explained why it's moot. Big guys don't get pushed as main eventers just because they're big except freaks like Khali and Andre. Snitsky was big, Earthquake was big, Heidenreich was big; they never got that kind of push. Because there were other big guys, and ones with more talent. The bigger the talent, the better the chance at a push. So saying "there are more littel guys that went nowhere than got titles" is moot because there are also more big guys that went nowhere than got titles.

Also, consider the following: Santino is only over right now because of his comedy. It's pretty risky to take that away and make him a serious character. Look at Kozlov. He's pretty much what Santino would have been if Santino had used his OVW gimmick. Now, obviously Santino wouldn't and couldn't use that exact gimmick now that he's been Santino, but that type of gimmick would be some indication of what Santino would go towards if you nixed his comedic shtick. He's years away from being as good as he would need to be to be over on ability alone.

Why even take the comedy away? Edge and Christian were hilarious, and they were dicks. Successful dicks, at that. Same goes, more recently, for Miz and Morrison. You can make Santino Marella into a serious threat and still be comedic persona.

[thedamndest]

It's completely relevant though because for every big guy they don't push, they're pushing another big guy. It still doesn't change the fact that the small guys don't make it up the card. That's the reality. BTW, I'm not saying you have to be in the main event to be "going somewhere." You can have a very lucrative career in the mid-card.

In regards to the comedy, I have no idea what they will do with his character if they try and make him serious. His comedy right now is unlike any of the guys that you have mentioned because he is the butt of every joke. He's basically a Eugene character when it comes to comedy, which is why everyone is saying that in order to make him a serious threat to the main event he needs to toughen up and get a little serious (something that was said about Eugene as well).

[St. Jimmy]

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e125/themattedness/ewno.gif

[Afterlife]

It's completely relevant though because for every big guy they don't push, they're pushing another big guy. It still doesn't change the fact that the small guys don't make it up the card. That's the reality. BTW, I'm not saying you have to be in the main event to be "going somewhere." You can have a very lucrative career in the mid-card.

In regards to the comedy, I have no idea what they will do with his character if they try and make him serious. His comedy right now is unlike any of the guys that you have mentioned because he is the butt of every joke. He's basically a Eugene character when it comes to comedy, which is why everyone is saying that in order to make him a serious threat to the main event he needs to toughen up and get a little serious (something that was said about Eugene as well).

But as I said, that's because there are more big wrestlers in general.

Also, when I say "serious threat", I just mean a good wreslter/showman. He doesn't have to pretend to be Mark Henry Angry all the time to be good in the ring.

[thedamndest]

I'm still not seeing the point of how his smallness isn't a hindrance. You can paint it any way you want with the ratio of big guys to little guys, but if you consult the WWE record books, I think you will find that not many guys his size have been pushed to the main event.

[Lock Jaw]

In recent history, though, champs have been getting smaller. With the exception of Batista.

[Stickman]

He'll go the way of Val Venus.

[Afterlife]

I'm still not seeing the point of how his smallness isn't a hindrance. You can paint it any way you want with the ratio of big guys to little guys, but if you consult the WWE record books, I think you will find that not many guys his size have been pushed to the main event.

I'm not saying it isn't a hindrance. I'm not sure how I led you to think I was. All I was saying is that being small doesn't mean you should give in to cynicism. If you reach into a bag of ten apples and three oranges, chances are you'll get an apple. Likewise, more big men on a roster than little men would suggest there are more big men as champs.

All I'm really getting at is that anyone can end up at the top if they've got the right talent and the right moment.

[Afterlife]

In recent history, though, champs have been getting smaller. With the exception of Batista.

And Kane and Henry and Big Show and Cena and Edge. ;)

[#1-norm-fan]

Like Jericho, or Michaels. Or Mysterio.

Or there's that Kurt Angle guy...

Didn't he have some sort of legit background too? Hmm...

[thedamndest]

I'm not saying it isn't a hindrance. I'm not sure how I led you to think I was. All I was saying is that being small doesn't mean you should give in to cynicism. If you reach into a bag of ten apples and three oranges, chances are you'll get an apple. Likewise, more big men on a roster than little men would suggest there are more big men as champs.

All I'm really getting at is that anyone can end up at the top if they've got the right talent and the right moment.

But all this stuff about it being statistics that more big men have ended up as champion because more big guys have been on the roster overall, while true, is misleading because guys aren't pushed to the main event by Vince reaching into a bag of apples.

There is a long line of guys with potential to be in the MVP before Santino. They're not Batista big, but they're bigger than Santino, and they're young enough and just as skilled that I think it's another reason to factor in when considering whether or not Santino will make it to the main event or just be used as a stepping stone for other people.

[Destor]

No

[Destor]

...and there's nothing wrong with that.

[Lock Jaw]

And Kane and Henry and Big Show and Cena and Edge. ;)

Edge isn't big.

Cena, despite being muscular, doesn't completely have the "big" feel.

Kane and Henry were ECW champs which doesn't count for anything.

[Afterlife]

But all this stuff about it being statistics that more big men have ended up as champion because more big guys have been on the roster overall, while true, is misleading because guys aren't pushed to the main event by Vince reaching into a bag of apples.

It was a metaphor, Theddy. :roll: There's no intent to mislead, it's strictly pointing out statistics. Vince can push any talented guy he wants of any size.

There is a long line of guys with potential to be in the MVP before Santino. They're not Batista big, but they're bigger than Santino, and they're young enough and just as skilled that I think it's another reason to factor in when considering whether or not Santino will make it to the main event or just be used as a stepping stone for other people.

I'm not saying Santino WILL make it. I'm saying he COULD. He clearly has the connection with the fans and can work the room, which is a step above most guys, let alone most guys with his tenure and win/loss ratio. Of course his size is a setback, but presuming that he'll never make it on that lone factor is where I throw a flag.

[Afterlife]

Edge isn't big.

Cena, despite being muscular, doesn't completely have the "big" feel.

Kane and Henry were ECW champs which doesn't count for anything.

Yes, I often forget that Edge is so tiny.

[Lock Jaw]

Yes, I often forget that Edge is so tiny.

It's cause a lot of times he holds his arms up in the air, making him appear larger than he actually is.

[#1-norm-fan]

lol. Isn't Edge like 6' 5"?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Edge isn't someone I would call small, but for his height, wrestling-wise, he is quite light.

I don't get where this size thing is really coming from. I mean, granted, it may be an obstacle, but it's not one that cannot be climbed over. Especially if a guy has enough talent and backing to get past it.

[Tanawesome]

I think that he should actually start wrestling in mid-card feuds instead of Diva feuds. He could drop part of the comedic gimmick but keep mis-pronouncing people's names. Get a few wins under his belt, he could get a little bit cocky and easily transition into a "Rock" like entertainer.

[thedamndest]

Edge isn't someone I would call small, but for his height, wrestling-wise, he is quite light.

I don't get where this size thing is really coming from. I mean, granted, it may be an obstacle, but it's not one that cannot be climbed over. Especially if a guy has enough talent and backing to get past it.

It'll be hard to climb over the size factor when everyone else is gonna be climbing over him. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

No, seriously, mid-carder for life.

[Afterlife]

I think that he should actually start wrestling in mid-card feuds instead of Diva feuds. He could drop part of the comedic gimmick but keep mis-pronouncing people's names. Get a few wins under his belt, he could get a little bit cocky and easily transition into a "Rock" like entertainer.

Seriously, it's not rocket science.

No, seriously, mid-carder for life.

Quite possible. But he obviously has the potential to go places.

[Mr. Nerfect]

You don't think his size could translate into the crowd sympathising with him? I'm not saying Santino Marella WILL be a main eventer. That'd be a ridiculous guarantee to make, but it's very rare that a character connects so well with crowds as Santino. He's consistently been one of the most entertaining highlights on a dull roster, and he's had considerable success DESPITE being a comedic character.

If the WWE actually decided to get a bit more seriously behind him, he could snowball to the top, I think.

[thedamndest]

We don't need another sympathy case in the main event. I think they learned their lesson when Rey held the belt. I realize he connects with the fans. That is the mark of a great showman. Do you not remember back in the Attitude era when guys like Road Dogg, Billy Gunn, Al Snow, Goldust, Godfather, and, yes Val Venis all connected with the fans? For one reason or another, they didn't get pushed to the main event. You could argue that some of those guys didn't have the right look that a Rock, HHH, or a Stone Cold had, but there was still a spot on the roster for them because of their talent. That is the case with Santino. I'm not sure what you mean about him having success "despite being a comedic character." That is exactly why he is having success now. He was so one-dimensional before. There is no reason to play with the formula as long as it is working.

[Mr. Nerfect]

We don't need another sympathy case in the main event. I think they learned their lesson when Rey held the belt. I realize he connects with the fans. That is the mark of a great showman. Do you not remember back in the Attitude era when guys like Road Dogg, Billy Gunn, Al Snow, Goldust, Godfather, and, yes Val Venis all connected with the fans? For one reason or another, they didn't get pushed to the main event. You could argue that some of those guys didn't have the right look that a Rock, HHH, or a Stone Cold had, but there was still a spot on the roster for them because of their talent. That is the case with Santino. I'm not sure what you mean about him having success "despite being a comedic character." That is exactly why he is having success now. He was so one-dimensional before. There is no reason to play with the formula as long as it is working.

The thing about all those guys you mentioned is that they are from a different era, where everybody was over to some degree. Nowadays, it's a much rarer thing for someone to actually get the fans to care about them.

What I meant by him having achieved success despite being a comedic character, is that in a kayfabe sense, the guy is actually quite accomplished. He's a two-time Intercontinental Champion, which is more than a lot of others guy will achieve in their lifetime. The point is that despite coming off like he should be a loser who never wins anything, Marella has got two mid-card title wins to his name.

Also, Mysterio himself was not a poor choice for World Champion. His reign was horribly handled, and booking destroyed him as a main event force. Also, Marella's a fair bit bigger than Mysterio, and has got more weight to his style, as well. His MMA stuff would be a lot easier to take seriously. Marella and Mysterio are bad comparisons.

Also, I am not saying he should drop the gimmick. I'm just asking whether or not the WWE would benefit by making him a goofball outside the ring, but a serious competitor inside it, ala Kurt Angle and Chris Jericho circa 2000.

[thedamndest]

I don't really put much stock in those Intercontinental title wins. The first was a "fluke" when his gimmick was the Milan Miracle. The second was a comedy run in which he beat Kofi Kingston (he didn't actually even gain the fall).

Think like Vince. He doesn't see the small man offense as being credible, and honestly, it shouldn't be in professional wrestling. Everything we have been taught by the WWE says that you need to be big to succeed, so a guy the size of Little Spike Dudley should get tossed around like Spike. He may grab a tag title reign with somebody, but I don't think he will ever hold even the ECW championship because I don't think by WWE standards he is the guy to anchor that show.

[Sixx]

I try and can`t recall a guy who would be on a midcard losing streak doing comedy and wearing a drag, then becoming the world champion.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I try and can`t recall a guy who would be on a midcard losing streak doing comedy and wearing a drag, then becoming the world champion.

William Regal would have fit that quota if he hadn't fucked up his massive heel push last year.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I don't really put much stock in those Intercontinental title wins. The first was a "fluke" when his gimmick was the Milan Miracle. The second was a comedy run in which he beat Kofi Kingston (he didn't actually even gain the fall).

Think like Vince. He doesn't see the small man offense as being credible, and honestly, it shouldn't be in professional wrestling. Everything we have been taught by the WWE says that you need to be big to succeed, so a guy the size of Little Spike Dudley should get tossed around like Spike. He may grab a tag title reign with somebody, but I don't think he will ever hold even the ECW championship because I don't think by WWE standards he is the guy to anchor that show.

Well, to be honest, it doesn't really matter what stock anyone puts into them. An Intercontinental Title win is an Intercontinental Title. People remember Chris Jericho as an eight-time IC Champion -- not as a guy who sometimes won and lost the title in the same night.

[DrA]

Why does Edge have the same expression on his face as he holds up those signs?

[Mr. Nerfect]

Why does Edge have the same expression all the time?