So what are your views on Steroids and the Hall Of Fame

[Loose Cannon]

So obviously over the past couple years, baseball has been surrounded by the whirlwind known as steroids. A couple of future sure Hall of Famer's have admitted to using steroids or have been linked to using steroids.

My curiosity rises over how you guys feel about voting these guys into the Hall of Fame? It seems like a lot of the older generation baseball voters want no part of voting players like Clemens and Bonds in.

What are your thoughts?

I'll type mine in the next post

[Loose Cannon]

My stance on this issue is almost like I don't know how to call it. It's such a shady area and I just keep asking myself more questions and raising more points every time this comes up

If we're all in agreement that steroids is a form of cheating, well then, what about Pete Rose, Joe Jackson etc... ? These guys were kicked out of baseball for "cheating" If these guys are not going to be elected to the Hall, then why should the steroid users?

But then I ask myself well how many players are going to come out that have used steroids? How many more names will there be. Is this whole era tainted? We'll probably never know the complete list of names though.

Then there's the issue of players that are kind of borderline HOF's. Ken Griffey Jr, Jim Thome to name a couple. These two have not been linked to steroids....yet.....does this raise thier HOF bids even more?

All I can tell you is that I am curious to see how the class of 2013 will pan out

[bigdaddysuperfreak]

I believe that people who have been proven to have used steroids should be barred from the Hall of Fame. As for Pete Rose, i've always felt that he should be allowed in if he does some kind of penance, something like a major event that is anti gambling.

[Fignuts]

I dunno, steroids elevate your game, but they don't turn a mediocre player into a great player. I think everyone who got in while using steroids, had enough natural talent where they would have gotten in anyway, regardless of whether they were using or not.

[Fignuts]

I think letting them in, but with an asterisk, is the best solution, really.

[Triple Naitch]

In this day and age, you don't know exactly who used what and when. If you don't vote for one guy, you can't vote for anyone else during the era. So if you think Clemens and Bonds shouldn't be in the Hall, then Ripken and Gwynn shouldn't be, which is too harsh. I say put them all in.

[bigdaddysuperfreak]

I think only people that have been proven to have used steroids should be barred, you cant base a decision on allegations.

[Bad Company]

No, steroids are cheating.

[WestNZ]

Hall of fame should be for only those that dont cheat, and seeing that taking Steroids are cheating, they should not be eligible

[Gonzo]

Its pretty well known that steroids were so prevalent the amount of players not using them is far less than the players using them.

Let them in, but also make it clear that steroids were prevalent during the era, and for individuals who used them let it be known that they did. Maybe the individuals shouldn't get a bust if they were ousted, but put in the hall in some sort of display to the era.

[bigdaddysuperfreak]

Its pretty well known that steroids were so prevalent the amount of players not using them is far less than the players using them.

Let them in, but also make it clear that steroids were prevalent during the era, and for individuals who used them let it be known that they did. Maybe the individuals shouldn't get a bust if they were ousted, but put in the hall in some sort of display to the era.
It was also pretty well known that the Earth was flat and the Moon was made of cheese.

[Stickman]

Would a corked bat or a spit ball pitch constitute cheating? What about A-Rod telling opposing batters what the pictches are going to be? Does that make anybody who did all of those ineligible for the HOF? I'm not defending steroid users but apparently in baseball if you're not cheating you're not trying.

[bigdaddysuperfreak]

Would a corked bat or a spit ball pitch constitute cheating? What about A-Rod telling opposing batters what the pictches are going to be? Does that make anybody who did all of those ineligible for the HOF? I'm not defending steroid users but apparently in baseball if you're not cheating you're not trying.
Im a Yankee fan and I dont think Assrod deserves to be in the HoF.

[Stickman]

I'm not a baseball fan but seems like Yankee fans don't like any of their players.

[bigdaddysuperfreak]

I love Jorge Posada, Derek Jeter, and even though Nick Swisher is in a little bit of a slump, I like the way he hustles and shows passion for the game.

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

I dunno, steroids elevate your game, but they don't turn a mediocre player into a great player. I think everyone who got in while using steroids, had enough natural talent where they would have gotten in anyway, regardless of whether they were using or not.That's somewhat what I think. However there could be borderline HOF guys who could be considered HOF caliber if they did use the stuff. Either way I'm not that big of a Hall of Fame guy to be honest, so my view on it isn't all that strong.

[Jeritron]

I don't know. Since this all hit the fan I think we all knew it was the "steroid era" and most players dabbled in them, but given recent developments it now seems as though everyone was taking them.
When guys who were viewed as the saving graces of the era (whom nobody thought did them and didn't look suspicious) start getting caught, it's bad.

I dunno. I don't think they should comprimise and start letting them in, but at the same time I think those who stood out should get their recognition. They certainly left their mark, whether its been negatively charged or not.
I think the best way to handle it is to officially dub it "the steroid era", instead of living in denial. Honor the hall of famers of that era in their own wing, or note it prominently on their plaque and legacy.

[toxic rooster]

Would a corked bat or a spit ball pitch constitute cheating? What about A-Rod telling opposing batters what the pictches are going to be? Does that make anybody who did all of those ineligible for the HOF? I'm not defending steroid users but apparently in baseball if you're not cheating you're not trying.

If anyone can reach the HOF with a corked bat, let them. It actually takes the power out of the bat. And umpires these days will make you change the ball if they even see you lick your fingers etc.

For me, it's a blanket 'no' on the steroid issue.

[The Mackem]

If their records stand they should be in, shouldn't they?

[Supreme Olajuwon]

You can't keep these players out of the Hall based on allegations. It's not their fault that MLB turned a blind eye to the steroid era and allowed people who were cheating to get away with it.

This whole presumption of guilt mentality that has consumed the baseball world is ridiculous. Once a guy has been labeled a cheater he can't do anything to prove his innocence. He can't prove that he wasn't taking PEDs. Allegations are not a suitable alternative to actual proof and unless evidence exists that states otherwise, we must presume their innocence despite the "evidence" we think we see like changing body types and jumps in statistics.

And yes I realize that the proof to convict some of these guys probably did exist at one time, but is gone now. Well that sucks, but tough shit. That's MLB's fault for allowing this era to take place. Don't rob a legitimately clean guy of his right to enshrinement because the higher ups were too busy sticking their thumbs up their asses and looking the other way. It's better to let 100 guilty men go free than to punish 1 innocent man.


As for the people who did get caught, I'm not entirely sure what to do. On one hand, I say fuck em, they did this to themselves. On the other hand, who really knows what effect it had on their game ultimately. I say let them in the Hall and give them the scarlet letter treatment. Put a sign next to their plaque that says so and so was caught using PEDs. Personally I think guys like John McGraw, Gaylord Perry, and Whitey Ford should get that same deal. Tell people that these guys were great players, but also let people know the whole story.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

I don't understand why you'd even let a confirmed steroid user keep playing the sport, never mind honour them. It's tacitly condoning steroid use. If they didn't enhance performance significantly then why would anyone use them?

They have an enormous effect. They also have enormous negative effects so we should be against anything which condones their use.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Well with baseball there was a long period where people inside the sport knew steroids was a big issue, but nobody did anything because it created statistical freaks that were increasing attendance and revenues for the game. Now everything is coming out about how that era is tainted so the people in charge are trying to save face by exposing the players who used steroids. The problem is that aside from a few exceptions, most of the steroid evidence is just speculation and accusation because there was no drug testing. Most of the hard evidence is long gone.

So the baseball higher ups are dealing with the dilemma of "We're 99.5% sure this person used steroids, but due to our own greed/incompetence, we don't have any proof."

[Dragon]

I dunno. I don't know how they can keep "outed" steroid users out of the Hall of Fame but then have a list of 103 other guys out there that tested positive and not do anything about that. I know it was an agreement with the players union and everything to keep it confidential but still. We at least know there was 103 more players that we don't know about who tested positive a couple years back. Who's to say none of those guys were hall of fame candidates?

[Ogen]

Well with baseball there was a long period where people inside the sport knew steroids was a big issue, but nobody did anything because it created statistical freaks that were increasing attendance and revenues for the game. Now everything is coming out about how that era is tainted so the people in charge are trying to save face by exposing the players who used steroids. The problem is that aside from a few exceptions, most of the steroid evidence is just speculation and accusation because there was no drug testing. Most of the hard evidence is long gone.

So the baseball higher ups are dealing with the dilemma of "We're 99.5% sure this person used steroids, but due to our own greed/incompetence, we don't have any proof."

Dunno regardless of any fuck ups it has to just be if you are proven to hvae taken steroids then no place in the hall of fame. If not proven your in unconditionally.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

There's also problems due to the labor agreement between the players union and the league. They did confidential drug testing in the early 00's to see if steroid testing should be mandated by the league and they found over 100 cases of players using performance enhancers. But that list of users is sealed so we don't know who's on it.

[DaveBrawl]

I have always wondered how they got A-Rod's name off that list and none of the others. Is it because none of the rest are noteworthy? Or do they not want us to see that so many of the retired superstars we bought merchandise for, and cheered for are on it?