DISCUSSION - A few thoughts about Edge, Kane, and Chris Benoit (Raw Spoilers) [Archive]

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Heyman

03-30-2004, 06:47 PM

DISCUSSION - A few thoughts about Edge, Kane, and Chris Benoit (Raw Spoilers)

-First off, the Trish Stratus heel promo on Jericho was absolutely terrible IMO. Just thought I'd get that out of the way.

-Edge/Kane --> Does anyone else think that the Edge/Kane match at Backlash is stupid? I mean - it's great for Edge if he goes over Kane, but what happens with Kane then? Getting squashed by Taker and then jobbing to Edge, won't exactly make him look credible amongst the fans' eyes. What about if Kane wins? (won't happen, but "what if?"). How credible does this make Edge look?

Also - do you really want to see Edge get pushed right away? I mean - think back to Triple H a few years ago. Coming off of quad surgery, Trips was pushed to the moon. However - he was very rusty and 'unfluid' in the ring. As result - his push was met with a 'lukewarm' reception......to put it mildly. Could the same thing happen with Edge?

I would argue that if Edge IS rusty, don't push him right now! If Edge IS rusty, or proves that he is no longer the wrestler that he once was (i.e. Triple H and Rhyno), then don't push him yet. Let a guy like CHRISTIAN get the push (now would be the PERFECT time to push him BTW). If Edge proves to be like Chris Benoit and Austin however, then it's a different story.

-Here are a few REASONS why I think it might be good for Chris Benoit to turn heel..........and align with Paul Heyman in Edmonton. :eek:

1) It's much easier to garner heel heat, than it is face pops. Benoit is no exception to this rule. I think even the most ardent Chris Benoit fan must admit that his face pops won't exactly be confused with The Rock's or Austin's. I'm not trying to imply that he's receiving 'lukewarm' face pops (because that is also false), but I do think that he is lacking the POP that a face main-eventer should be receiving. Compared to guys like Guerrero and Cena, Benoit's pops are clearly less. This is one reason why I suggest the heel turn.

2) Chris Benoit doesn't have the 'charismatic' mic skills to draw as a face. Benoit isn't bad on the mic, but I think in this day and age, the fans clamour for a guy who can display 'cockiness' on a mic (or attitude). Cena, Guerrero, The Rock, TRiple H, SHawn Michaels, and Vince McMahon are all examples of this. Put Benoit with a guy like Paul Heyman, and this problem is solved. It worked for Brock Lesnar, so why shouldn't it work for Chris Benoit?

3) To some degree, it benefits ALL of Triple H, Shawn Michaels, and Chris Benoit. It benefits Triple H, because he gets 'screwed over' due to Paul Heyman intervention. Therefore - he doesn't have to JOB twice in a row. It benefits HBK for the same reason. It benefits Chris Benoit, because he can have a title reign which will last longer than a month.

Although I am starting to gain a lot of respect and faith back in Triple H, I highly doubt that he will JOB to Benoit at Backlash (ESPECIALLY since he jobbed to Benjamin last night).

4) Chris Benoit has been annouced as "now residing in Atlanta Georgia". Could this be a foreshadowing of sorts?.......that maybe he doesn't particularily care aboot the fans in Edmonton?

5) As a heel, Benoit can feud with the likes of SHawn Michaels, Shelton Benjamin, Chris Jericho, Edge, and maybe even a face Triple H. If the WWE are going to push guys like Edge....or even Jericho as top babyfaces, then the champion has to be heel. If you have Triple H as heel champ however, then it makes his JOB to Benoit at Mania almost a waste (since Benoit will just go back to mid-card hell). You have Benoit as a heel however, and things are NEW and REFRESHED.

Hell - I'd even say have Evolution kick Triple H out of the group after Backlash (and then have Triple H be preoccupied with feuding with Evolution for a little bit).

If Triple H wants to win the title back, then I say let him win it back at a much later date.......as a FACE. I don't like the idea of that, but I do think it would be the lesser of the two evils (the other scenerio being that Triple H wins the title at Backlash over Benoit).

Perhaps the best scenerio however, is to have Benoit defeat Triple H cleanly once again at Backlash (this time with a flying headbutt). The next night, Triple H gets kicked out of Evolution. In the next Raw PPV (Benoit vs. Edge.....who has defeated Kane cleanly), Benoit screws Edge in the end by enlisting the help of Paul Heyman.

Heyman

03-30-2004, 10:35 PM

Edge and Kane........heel/face switch

Would anyone mind seeing a Kane/Edge heel/face switch? Think about this scenerio..........Before the Edge/Kane match, Edge and Christian have a brief confrontation (which looks like they are at odds).

During the Kane/Edge match, Christian comes down. To the surprise of many (but not anyone with a brain ;)), Christian nails Kane! Edge then gets the cover. Edge wins. After the match, Edge and Christian embrace.

Here is what this would achieve.

1) Kane's career is not damaged. Seriously - how long would it take for the fans to take Kane seriously again if he lost cleanly to Edge?

2) Edge is better as a heel and is more likely to receive a stronger (and better lasting) push as one.
-Let's say Edge 'returns the favor' and helps Christian defeat Jericho later on that night. Vintage old E&C. Edge then defeats Jericho a month later or so, and gets primed and ready for a push.

3) Edge and Christian can work as a tag team on occassion. With the Dudleys on Smackdown now, Raw needs a premier tag team. That's where E&C can come in. While in the middle of their respective singles pushes, E&C can also hold the tag team titles at times.........just to keep the division 'over'. Eventually - they can job to an up-and-coming team.

Funky Fly

03-30-2004, 10:42 PM

Heyman

03-30-2004, 10:45 PM

Sorry Heyman, but nothing short of Benoit crapping on the flag, punching out mayor Bill Smith and burning down West Edmonton Mall will make Edmontonians boo Benoit. :cool:

Do you remember the HUGE face pop the night he returned in Edmonton and turned heel on Stone Cold? That was the shit. No one wanted to bo him.

Benoit may still get cheered in Edmonton (even after the turn), but he'll get booed elsewhere.

Think about Austin after WM-17. Fans were reluctant to 'boo' him after the turn (where the match was in his own homestate), but he still managed to get a nice share of 'boos' outside of Texas (for awhile anyways :-\ ).

Benoit isn't nearly as over as Austin was, and so he won't have to worry about people still cheering him outside of Edmonton.

Funky Fly

03-30-2004, 11:00 PM

Outside of Canada*.

Unless they play up the whole being from Georgia thing.

Krow

03-30-2004, 11:34 PM

Heyman

03-31-2004, 01:58 AM

Ever heard of The Brood?

Deja vu. :D

This time however, they can label themselves as "The Boob" (due to Trish's presence). ;)

Imagi-Nation

03-31-2004, 07:12 AM

The Brood ruled

SeanMC

03-31-2004, 08:51 AM

The boob would rule too.haha..not. I dont want to see a benoit heel switch, i don't give a f-uck if his face promo's aint that good, oh and your saying he wouldn't be cheered outside wrestlemania/Look back at wrestlemania when they chanted 'benoit!, benoit! benoit!' and booed hbk/hhh, so shut up about the fact he wont get cheered anywhere else apart from edmonton.

Sephiroth

03-31-2004, 09:27 AM

Deja vu. :D

This time however, they can label themselves as "The Boob" (due to Trish's presence). ;)

LOL, that would be something. :D

KillerWolf

03-31-2004, 10:56 AM

yall need to stop sayin' kane should turn face.

tucsonspeed6

03-31-2004, 01:22 PM

What exactly do mean by the Trish and Jericho thing being terrible? I'll agree that Trish is a terrible heel, but I marked the **** out when Jericho resurected the term "Jerichoholics." THe whole bit was still funny and I laughed at his insults.

Edge/ Kane: Maybe a thermometer match to make sure they're ready to push Edge? I don't know, but like you said, it'd suck if Edge came back the way HHH did. It was probably something that they weighed out and it could have been the lesser of all the evils. Everyone's first choice would be to have him fight Christian, but he's in the middle of a feud with Jericho. Cutting that off would be worse. Putting him with the other main eventers in a fatal four way for the title would probably suck too because there wouldn't be as much spotlight on him for his big return, and probably every other combination didn't make as much sense as the Edge/Kane fight. It sounds more to me like if anything, they may have written themselves into a corner with his return by booking every better man into various feuds.

Benoit turning Heel: Not yet... Let Heyman build a small, fairly weak stable and Benoit's joining will be the big punch. A feud between this stable and Evolution could be interesting. Just don't let him lose at Edmonton. I'm sick and tired of Face champs losing the title after a month or two.

The Naitch

03-31-2004, 01:28 PM

Heyman with Benoit makes sense. Heyman then says HIS Smackdown guy now has the RAW title, so that was some sort of masterplan all along or something. Now Heyman is on RAW, and he gets Rhyno to join his "side" as well. The Heyman vs. Bischoff feud starts.

CanAmConnection

03-31-2004, 01:31 PM

While I like the sound of that, I think SD needs Heyman's heel presence more than RAW does.

tucsonspeed6

03-31-2004, 01:43 PM

I'm gonna agree that SD would be better off with Heyman right now.

The CyNick

03-31-2004, 01:45 PM

Trish
I didn't like her promo either. She just doesn't have the confidence needed to cut an effective promo. A lot of people were going mad for Jericho, but I found his schtick to be pretty lame and it screamed mid card player to me. The people popped, so it wasn't all bad, but I've seen him do that exact same thing with Steph and it didn't get him anywhere.

Edge-Kane
I also dont get this feud. If they want to push Kane at some point, jobbing to Edge isn't going to help. Maybe Kane is going to be off TV to do his movie soon so they figure get him to JOB a bunch of times, and then when he comes back he'll be over.

In terms of Edge getting a push, I agree with Heyman that they may be jumping the gun. I dont think Edge's pops have been all that great, although his segment when he returned was highly rated, so if he can bring in viewers he should stay on top. The other problem is that the company has so few main eventers who can draw that they need Edge to break through.

In terms of him turning heel, I think it would have worked on Smackdown given the strong babyface side, but on RAW they need more top babyafces. Benoit is lukewarm as champion, HBK is played out, Shleton is not ready yet, and Jericho is stuck in mid card comedy. If the fans take Edge seriously as a main event player he needs to stay babyface especially with Hunter getting the belt back very soon. An E-C reunion is useless to both guys. Christian needs a strong singles push, and Edge should be main eventing soon. Putting them back as a team would be going backwards. pLus the tag division is so weak, it would really hurt their credibility.

Benoit heel turn in Edmonton
You know if it wasn't for the fact that I see a lot of good stuff from Heyman I would call him a moron for suggesting this. Benoit has to stay babyface in Edmonton. If they are set on putting the title on Hunter in Edmonton thats bad enough, but if they were to turn Benoit in Edmonton or Calgary the next night, they would kill the city as a viable draw for the company. You have to think about things like that. Now, when Benoit drops the title, I wouldn't be against a heel turn, but wait until they get out of Canada.

HHH/Evolution
I dont think the time is right for HHH to get kicked out of Evolution. IMO, this has to be about Randy Orton, it has to become clear that Randy is neck and neck with Hunter and at that point he boots him from Evolution. I dont think the time is right just yet. Plus, Hunter did a JOB for Benjamin, they might as well do something with that, which means giving Shelton a title shot after Hunter gets it back on RAW or maybe at a PPV. Plus they also have Edge who is somewhat hot right now, and they still could probably get another match out of HBK-HHH. All of those things require HHH to be a heel. In fact with the HBK deal, I think thats how you turn HHH babyface. They do one more match down the road (maybe Summerslam or October time). HHH wins, but just barely, and then he embraces HBK after the match. That could piss off Orton, saying Hunter has got soft of the last few months, and bam he boots out HHH.

ColdwaVer

03-31-2004, 08:40 PM

Also - do you really want to see Edge get pushed right away? I mean - think back to Triple H a few years ago. Coming off of quad surgery, Trips was pushed to the moon. However - he was very rusty and 'unfluid' in the ring. As result - his push was met with a 'lukewarm' reception......to put it mildly. Could the same thing happen with Edge?

I would argue that if Edge IS rusty, don't push him right now! If Edge IS rusty, or proves that he is no longer the wrestler that he once was (i.e. Triple H and Rhyno), then don't push him yet. Let a guy like CHRISTIAN get the push (now would be the PERFECT time to push him BTW). If Edge proves to be like Chris Benoit and Austin however, then it's a different story.

Well, you've answered your own question. If Edge is rusty, then putting him in a feud with Kane is a good way to have him in the upper-midcard without taxing his capabilities too much. In a match with an enormous monster like Kane, he won't have to do much throwing his opponent around, won't have to do a lot of pretty stuff. Since Backlash will be Edge's first onscreen match (I dunno what he's doing about house shows atm), it's a good way to get him out there without putting too much pressure on him. As for not pushing him right away, that's not an option. Too many people want him back right now, taking the chance that that mood will cool off is too much a risk.

MVP

03-31-2004, 10:19 PM

Benoit needs to stay a face for a good period of time. It's been a while since a real babyface has held the World Title. WWE needs to break the reign of heel World Champions.

Later on down the road I'd love to see a heel turn with Benoit though. Perhaps if Triple H WERE to turn face and win the World Title in the fall, Benoit could somehow earn a title shot and they would have a face vs. face title match, only until...BAM, Benoit screws Triple H out of retaining the title by aligning himself with someone like Paul Heyman (assuming ECW isn't reunited) and turning fully heel and becoming World Champion.