DISCUSSION - Would an "old school" vs. "New Blood" angle in the WWE be a good idea?

[Heyman]

DISCUSSION - Would an "old school" vs. "New Blood" angle in the WWE be a good idea?

I'd be intrigued at the idea of seeing a 'new blood' vs. 'old school' war within the WWE. The New Blood would consist of the following:


New Blood

-CM Punk
-MVP
-John Morrison
-The Miz
-Evan Bourne
-Christian
-Jack Swagger
-Shelton Benjamin
-Matt Hardy
-Mike Knox
-Kofi Kingston
-The Brian Kendrick
-R-Truth
-Matt Hardy
-The Great Kali
-Cody Rhodes
-Ted Dibiase
-Primo Colon

And any other new wrestler that I neglected to mention:


Oldschool:

-John Cena
-Triple H
-Randy Orton
-Dave Batista
-Shawn Michaels
-Edge
-Undertaker
-Kane
-Big Show
-Jeff Hardy
-Chris Jericho
-Fit Finlay
-William Regal
-Rey Mysterio
-Carlito
-Tommy Dreamer

And any other 'old school' wrestler that I neglected to mention.

Advantages of such an angle:



If booked right, it could collectively allow guys like CM Punk, MVP, Miz, Morrison, Rhodes, Dibiase, etc., etc. to further establish credibility since they would be in direct opposition to the likes of Triple H, John Cena, Randy Orton, Dave Batista, etc.



An angle like this would considerably freshen the WWE



An angle like this could legitimately destroy the 'Glass ceiling' in the WWE, and finally create an opportunity for many new stars to be created.


Now this is the part where I ask you guys as to what y'all think?

[Juan]

No. This idea didn't work in WCW, hasn't worked in TNA and I doubt it'd work in WWE.

[Heyman]

No. This idea didn't work in WCW, hasn't worked in TNA and I doubt it'd work in WWE.

You're probably right.

However - I was thinking that instead of there being a definitive "end" to the war (i.e. like we saw in the alliance), this war could ultimately just lead to the 'New Blood' having their own show......taking over RAW.

The 'oldschool' guys would then be moved to Smackdown.

A 'cold war' would exist between the two shows (i.e. tensions and mixed PPV's, random backstage assaults, etc.).

WCW and TNA failed, from what I understand, because the 'glass ceiling' was never really eliminated.....and ultimately, the 'wrong' guys ended up winning anyways and no one really went over.

In THIS scenario, I would have the 'New Blood' go over, and get the rights to RAW.

[XL]

Do you think the likes of HHH, Undertaker and Shawn Michaels would allow that to happen?

[Lock Jaw]

It could work on a small scale. Like one guy starts. He talks about how Cena, Batista, HHH, Orton, and Edge dominate the main events, and he won't stand for it. A few other guys jump aboard this too, but they don't have to be associated at all.

Kinda like when they did that whole Ruthless Aggression thing, they had a bunch of guys who they started pushing as having or showing Ruthless Aggression, but they weren't allies or anything.

So same concept, you'd have the general idea of breaking the glass ceiling and have some up and comers face the elite stars and establish themselves as on their level.

Then, once on the same level, they never need to mention the glass ceiling thing again.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

It could work. Hell, it should work. It should have worked in WCW, it should be working in TNA, but I'm convinced the bookers of all companies are idiots and for whatever the reason can't make it work. And it infuriates me.

[Heyman]

Do you think the likes of HHH, Undertaker and Shawn Michaels would allow that to happen?

3-4 years ago.....not a chance.

Now however? I'm not so sure. HBK and Taker are nearing the end of their careers now, and might be more open to the idea.

HHH has also shown a willingness to put over the right guy under the right circumstance (i.e. Benoit, Batista, Cena). HHH, regardless of who is on the roster, will always be the #1 or #2 guy anyways and so it makes no difference to him.

This idea has no chance of happening, but I think it would be cool to see.

If the WWE ever had a chance to create new stars and see a new wrestling boom, an angle like this would be ideal.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Hell, SEX could have work in TNA as heels, the New Blood could have worked in TNA as heels, and the Front Line could have worked in TNA. Everyone just fucks it up in the ends. It does my head in every single time. :mad:

[#1-norm-fan]

I would hardly call Carlito "old school"

Also, Matt Hardy on the new blood side and Jeff Hardy on the old school side.

[Heyman]

I would hardly call Carlito "old school"

Also, Matt Hardy on the new blood side and Jeff Hardy on the old school side.

There would be some flexibility as well (i.e. Carlito could go oldschool or new school).

Matt could go on the 'new blood' side due to the fact that he's never won a world/WWE title......and could ostensibly blame the 'old school glass ceiling' for that.

[Nicky Fives]

might work... but I'm not a fan of stables having more than 5 members... it worked for nWo for a time.... but no huge stables have really worked....

[HeartBreakMan2k]

You know what... the fact that this thread has to even exist makes me fuckin angry. RAR! :MAD:

[Heyman]

^^^^

Totally agree.

But seriously - if the WWE are DEAD SERIOUS about pushing guys like CM Punk, John Morrison, Ted Dibiase, and Cody Rhodes as major threats, then what better way to push them then this?

Especially in Punk's case, if he was the LEADER of such a rebellion, it would get him over so huge.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

^^^^

Totally agree.

But seriously - if the WWE are DEAD SERIOUS about pushing guys like CM Punk, John Morrison, Ted Dibiase, and Cody Rhodes as major threats, then what better way to push them then this?

Especially in Punk's case, if he was the LEADER of such a rebellion, it would get him over so huge.

See here's the thing though, Punk doesn't need it. He's already above the glass ceiling. If he loses the title and can't get another title shot then he'd be perfect for it. He can bitch about the only reason he can even get a title shot is when he wins MitB.

Morrison, Dibiase, and Rhodes would be great. Orton would have been amazing for the role when he was "The Legend Killer".

The other big thing about making this angle work is that you don't need all the big names. Like right now, Orton doesn't need to be there. He's young enough that he's not a glass ceiling proponent, and in a position where he doesn't need to force a changing of he guard. He could go the whole "I don't need to fight your battles, I have my own" route. Same goes for Punk.

Ditto for guys like Cena. He could be a guy the heels of the New Blood target because he's in the top spot, but he's not part of the Main Event Mafia/Millionares Club.

Which brings me to my next point, you don't have to turn anyone to make this work. Faces and heels should stay faces and heels. Maybe some of the young guys get slightly more aggressive, but they're not heels. The only reason they even work with the heels is because they have a common goal.

You know, I've booked this in my mind and on EWR a million times and it's incredible everytime. Fucking aye; how do they screw this up every time?! :mad:

[Dr. Abyss]

No it wouldn't all late WCW Ideas should be kept to TNA. It would be terrible I would not want it to happen. It would just turn WWE into TNA with a bigger budget. Its horrible Idea nice try though.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

No it wouldn't all late WCW Ideas should be kept to TNA. It would be terrible I would not want it to happen. It would just turn WWE into TNA with a bigger budget. Its horrible Idea nice try though.

Except every angle in wrestling is a recycled angle. Hell, if you look at it closely ECW came to be cause of that angle. The whole reason Extreme Championship Wrestling was formed was because Shane Douglas was breaking away from the old guard of Eastern Championship Wrestling.

It's a recycled angle, just present differently.

[Dr. Abyss]

Look at how terrible it is by watching TNA. Besides that Vince would cancel it after one week anyways. Its a shit Idea plain and simple

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Everything is terrible watching TNA. They have horrible bookers. You can't just the potential of an angle by watching a terribly book company.

[Dr. Abyss]

Like WWE's writers are any better? They have no bookers read what Cornette wrote about them its the truth.

Outside of Jericho doing anything and Shawn Micheals vs The Undertaker.

WWE has been terribly booked..........

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Like WWE's writers are any better? They have no bookers read what Cornette wrote about them its the truth.

Outside of Jericho doing anything and Shawn Micheals vs The Undertaker.

WWE has been terribly booked..........

As a general rule yes. Raw is atrocious. Smackdown has been golden and ECW is a tolerable wrestling show. TNA gets one thing total right a week. If that. Which by the way is usually Beer Money.

I'm not saying WWE is done well, but they do at least have some consistency in their booking. And you will NEVER hear someone say they don't WANT the world title, like Jeff Jarrett, the founder of TNA's company did last week. And like Samoa Joe has EVERY week.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Oh, and if those are the only two bright spots you can call out then you clearly are either trying to discredit what little WWE accomplishes or you don't watch very much.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Oh and the worse part of it all is TNA has the bookers who could make the show work UNDER FUCKIN CONTRACT

Raven, Shane Douglas, Cornette if he's still there, Nash, Stevie Richards and Mick Foley could all book a cohesive show but their primary owner Dixie Carter and Jeff Jarrett are so scared to make a power play that it will never happen.

[Dr. Abyss]

I try not watch very much at all. I don't need Vince to think for me.

Booked sorry that term does nto exist in WWE.

TNA was doing good things until they made Angle champ again.

I know there has been mor good stuff in WWE and Smackdown is straight up destroying RAW. Vince is putting too much Emphasis on entertainment. The fact that he thought for a month staright to have Randy Orton open every show was a good Idea. Just shows how shitty thimgs are going backstage.

[Dr. Abyss]

Oh and the worse part of it all is TNA has the bookers who could make the show work UNDER FUCKIN CONTRACT

Raven, Shane Douglas, Cornette if he's still there, Nash, Stevie Richards and Mick Foley could all book a cohesive show but their primary owner Dixie Carter and Jeff Jarrett are so scared to make a power play that it will never happen.

That is very true my friend. Anyone who thinks hiring Vince Russo is a good Idea is fucking retarded.

Jeff Jarret is an Ego Maniac if he let someone else book that would mean he might not be in the spotlight.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

It could work. Hell, it should work. It should have worked in WCW, it should be working in TNA, but I'm convinced the bookers of all companies are idiots and for whatever the reason can't make it work. And it infuriates me.

Exactly. The main idea of a new blood angle should be to get the new blood over... not job them to all the old guys. That's why they've all failed.

[Dr. Abyss]

Exactly. The main idea of a new blood angle should be to get the new blood over... not job them to all the old guys. That's why they've all failed.

Thats what would happen in WWE. No new guys would get over period because lets face it. None of the older guys are really willing to lay down. The writers are idiots in WWE and have no experience working in the wrestling business. Like Jim Cornette said There only using the place to get there foot in the door to work elsewhere.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

I try not watch very much at all. I don't need Vince to think for me.

Booked sorry that term does nto exist in WWE.

TNA was doing good things until they made Angle champ again.

I know there has been mor good stuff in WWE and Smackdown is straight up destroying RAW. Vince is putting too much Emphasis on entertainment. The fact that he thought for a month staright to have Randy Orton open every show was a good Idea. Just shows how shitty thimgs are going backstage.

How can you admit Smackdown is booked well and yet completely discredit the company?

And TNA was not. They had two workers both say they don't want the world title yet were invovled in the world title program. You're judging WWE as a whole based soley on Raw it seems like. Every negative thing you've been able to comment on is Raw oriented. Yes, they have a ton of issue. But that one show still does more right in one week than TNA does in a week.

I want TNA to do well, but they aren't. TNA puts out the worse show each week. It goes Smackdown, then ECW, then Raw, then Impact.

That's not to say TNA doesn't do things well, because they do. The knockout division as a whole is great, Beer Money is great. Practically everything else makes me want to pull my hair out. And you say you don't need Vince McMahon to think for you, but you absolutely are by the inverse.

Impact does a great show, one SOLID show that top to bottom (sans the commentary) that is damn near flawless every once and a while, and then the very next week the strides they made are totally shot to shit.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Exactly. The main idea of a new blood angle should be to get the new blood over... not job them to all the old guys. That's why they've all failed.

Agreed, and not even every has to go over by winning. Hell, the only successful thing WCW did was make Billy Kidman look good against Hulk Hogan. He lost, but he looked credible. It's not realistic for the young guys to beat the established guys every time, but they have to go over at least some.

I'm just convinced no one knows how to book a large scale gang wars feud period. The original incarnation of the NWO being the exception.

[Dr. Abyss]

Smackdown is booked better then Raw because they have people backstage who work in the wrestling business. There I said it.

RAW is crap and i don't need Vince to shovel it down my throat.

I wish TNA would do well also but I hope ROH does better then them. Because there product is a lot better then TNA's.

The best thing TNA has done lately is bring back Christopher Daniels thats it.

I say smackdown is better because maybe there is a sliver of hope in that piece of shit WWE machine. Vince needs to start listening to the fans not just the Voices in his head.

Yes Beer MOney is great in TNA and they deserve the spot there in. TNA at least sometimes the listen to there fans.

[Batista03]

If it was to work they would either need a McMahon or a great manager to be over them. Like they did with Shane having WCW and Stef having ECW. And why are they trying to advertise 12 Rounds so much if not many ppl went to see the damn movie in the theaters? But it would be a nice change for once and if they do more tag team matches(with top stars) on ECW would help that show.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

If it was to work they would either need a McMahon or a great manager to be over them. Like they did with Shane having WCW and Stef having ECW. And why are they trying to advertise 12 Rounds so much if not many ppl went to see the damn movie in the theaters? But it would be a nice change for once and if they do more tag team matches(with top stars) on ECW would help that show.

No it wouldn't in fact that's what killed the entire fucking invasion. ECW was the rebirth of that angle because Paul E had resurrected the tribe of extreme. Later on in that very show, it was all for nothing when Stephanie had taken over.

It doesn't need a manager, especially not an owner who in all reality would do anything to keep his top stars, his top money makers from losing their spot to some young upstarts. It needs a charismatic worker, two actually. A face and a heel. One so they could get behind one another.

You fail. Thank you TNA booking committee.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Agreed, and not even every has to go over by winning. Hell, the only successful thing WCW did was make Billy Kidman look good against Hulk Hogan. He lost, but he looked credible. It's not realistic for the young guys to beat the established guys every time, but they have to go over at least some.

I'm just convinced no one knows how to book a large scale gang wars feud period. The original incarnation of the NWO being the exception.

Honestly it'd be so easy to do a "gang war". Just make it violent and not cheesy. Have them trade wins and losses until the blowoff, and make both of them look strong in the process. The keyest part is creating a sort of unpredictable environment. The key is in a stable war, that both stables need to have a semblance of pride. They need to be fighting for something, in the name of something. It can't just be going through the motions. Lots of controversy, lots of blood, lots of anger and passion.

Honestly, I realize it's armchair booking, but I'm pretty sure I'd put a better more entertaining show on than the brain trust on raw. And that's saying something, because I wouldn't really know wtf was going on. (I'm saying this as if I had 100 per cent power and Vince did not exist).

[XL]

Honestly it'd be so easy to do a "gang war". Just make it violent and not cheesy...Lots of controversy, lots of blood, lots of anger and passion.
In WWE? In it's current form? I don't think we'll be seeing that.

[Gertner]

Could work.

The New Breed vs ECW Originals was my favourite feud of 2007 by far.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

In WWE? In it's current form? I don't think we'll be seeing that.

Just cuz I said it was easy does not immediately mean the WWE could do it.

[St. Jimmy]

No.

[#1-norm-fan]

I just thought of this in the "make a stable" topic but it is more appropriate in this one...

The more I think about it, the more I hate the idea of an Old School vs. New School stable because it just seems lazy. It's fighting the fact that people feel that the same guys have been main eventing for too long by making it into a storyline where they continue to just be in the main event. In the long run, nothing really changes and it's just a lazy way of trying to appease people.

It would be more creative to actually push other guys in the title picture while the older guys have their own "old guy" feuds going on. And then every once in a while have one of the older guys who has been pretty dominant against the other old guys get a chance at recapturing their glory by challenging for a title. Of course they don't always have to lose the title match but it at least makes it where it's not the same matches over and over and it makes it seem like they can still get it done but youth is starting to take over.

[Heyman]

I just thought of this in the "make a stable" topic but it is more appropriate in this one...

The more I think about it, the more I hate the idea of an Old School vs. New School stable because it just seems lazy. It's fighting the fact that people feel that the same guys have been main eventing for too long by making it into a storyline where they continue to just be in the main event. In the long run, nothing really changes and it's just a lazy way of trying to appease people.



I definitely see your point, but here was what I was thinking:

1) HAVE the 'New Blood' vs. 'Old School' angle. However - make both sides look good (i.e. victories on both sides).

2) Have the 'New Blood' stable, in its entirety, become the new RAW brand (i.e. have them defeat Old School for the right sfor RAW.....after 2-4 months of feuding).

3) The 'Old School' and 'New Blood' eventually have their own brands (Smackdown and RAW respectively), and from there on out, the WWE never sees anymore 'lottery drafts.' From here on out, the only way people can move to a different show is if they are traded.

4) Although the 2-4 month blow-out feud between the two stables is now over, there can still be a 'cold war' between the two brands (i.e. tensions at joint PPV's, occassional backstage attacks, King of the Ring rivalries, Survivor Series 5 on 5 formats, etc.).


Here is what is ultimately achieved with my plan:

A) Each brand finally develops their own distinct IDENTITY...something that is truly lacking in the WWE right now. RAW becomes stacked with 'new guys'....guys that have plenty of opportunity to grow, whereas Smackdown becomes stacked with the oldschool. This arrangement is also smart from a business standpoint, since it allows new stars to be created (i.e. feuding with one another...bringing out the best in each other), while also having no 'glass ceiling' in front.

Main thing achieved: Brand identities; a perfect environment for new stars being created.

B) As it relates to the New Blood/Old School feud, no side has to look 'weak'.


Ultimately - I think it's a great, systematic way for the WWE to create new stars. RAW can always be the place where new guys, with promise, can rise within the ranks by having top notch feuds with fellow emerging stars (think: Rock vs. HHH...1998).

Interbrand feuds on occassion can also allow for said rising star to 'go over' an 'oldschool guy' from Smackdown.

[XL]

The biggest risk is that people only tune in to SmackDown! to see the established names that they are used to, whilst the new guys (albeit having been put over in the months prior) get ignored on Raw.

On a much smaller scale it's kinda like what is happening with ECW atm. They are being used as a "water testing facility" for new guys but the majority of fans (including the smarks of tpdub) don't even bother to tune in. The likes of Evan Bourne and Jack Swagger seem to be moving to Raw with a fair portion of the audience having no idea who they are.

I kinda like the general idea but of course there are risks.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I'm not a big fan of a full-on massive war between the sides, but I am not against younger guys stepping up against older guys. You have a number of feuds in the WWE that could work like this:

Shawn Michaels has his pupil on RAW, in The Brian Kendrick. They could very easily have Kendrick want to try and prove that he is better than his mentor ever was. Give them a series of matches, with HBK winning the first one, Kendrick stealing the second one, etc. and you could have a nice storyline going there.

The Miz's current character seems to partially be a knock on the IWC. The Miz is saying everything we've been saying for years about Cena. Imagine if he started to say it about Triple H. A feud with The Miz calling Triple H an overrated hack who only reached thirteen World Titles because he's banging the boss' daughter could be a very hot angle.

On smaller scales, you could have Sheamus headhunting Finlay and William Regal serving as a mentor to Paul Burchill again, until Burchill gets fed up with Regal's harsh lessons, and decides to go out on his own against him.