UFC runs a better wrestling company than the wwe does

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Think about it... at most, 2 shows a month and 80 per cent of the shows are very good- excellent.

The build up to the big fights is usually about 5 months. The results actually mean something. When someone goes over the top and goes apeshit (see Brock Lesnar and Dan Henderson this past saturday) it actually means something because people don't see it every single fucking week. When guys actually have a feud, people really care about it, there is actual emotional investment. Again, look at Bisping vs. Henderson, the young cocky upstart running his mouth against the aging, much respected veteran who people were questioning. The way the fight ended was definitive and unpredictable. If you want to see heat about something go into the mma forum and see how much people are going nuts about the controversy.

There's drug tests after every fight. There's bonuses for submission, ko and fight of the night. There's insentive to perform. It doesn't matter if you're the top guy, you can get knocked off at any point, one punch changes everything.

Big signings actually mean something, because they can actually succeed because it's really up to them how they do.

Most importantly, MMA holds the inpredictability wrestling so desperately craves.

Essentially mma pretty much nabbed the attitude demographic, the demographic that craved the in your face unpredictability that wrestling used to offer.

The undercard fights actually mean something as well. Every fight has implications one way or another, there's never a throwaway fight.

Vince needs to start taking notes.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Plus they have Joe Rogan.

[wwe2222]

I dont think the two are that comparable. The UFC can do what they do because the competitions are real. The emotions for the most part are real.

WWE is entertainment.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

There are still similar platforms. As Dave Meltzer said, you are still selling characters. People wouldn't care about chuck lidell if he wasn't the ice man. People wouldn't care about Brock if he wasn't a wild card, rabid animal. People wouldnt care about Rampage if he wasn't a wisecracking negro.

[Kris P Lettus]

The main difference is MMA is a an actual combat sport while WWE is a staged exhibition..

You ever heard the saying "you couldn't make this stuff up", well that right there is why WWE will never have the emotion and unpredictability that UFC does..

Plus, Joe Silva (UFC's head match maker) knows the sport through and through so that's why you get so many great match-up..

[Kris P Lettus]

Also, this

Plus they have Joe Rogan.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

The main difference is MMA is a an actual combat sport while WWE is a staged exhibition..

You ever heard the saying "you couldn't make this stuff up", well that right there is why WWE will never have the emotion and unpredictability that UFC does..

Plus, Joe Silva (UFC's head match maker) knows the sport through and through so that's why you get so many great match-up..

The element of realism is key... but again, that's what hurts the wwe. Suspension of disbelief is one thing, but when everything flat out insults your intelligence is makes the viewer not want to watch.

UFC is kicking their ass in ppvs because they are building compelling fights that mostly deliver. And they build their fighters well and they build their fights well. It's not EXACTLY the same thing, they just have similar platforms.

If WWE managed to make everything mean something like everything means something in the ufc, and made things unpredictable like it used to be, they'd be way better off. I mean right now they don't need to since they're the only show in town and running a successful business, but still, for the sake of the viewer.

Just because it's scripted does not mean it has to be lame and predictable.

[Nicky Fives]

Plus they have Joe Rogan.

I think Joe Rogan would have to pay alot of fines if he were in the WWE, if you know what I mean.:shifty:.....

[Kris P Lettus]

Bottom line is, WWE will never be what UFC is.. Just step way from the darkside and into the light.. I did as soon as WWE acquired ECW (IMO the greatest prowrestling promotion of all time) and made it garbage..

[St. Jimmy]

No.

[St. Jimmy]

Also this belongs in the MMA subforum.

[Hanso Amore]

Also this belongs in the MMA subforum.

Ouch

[Kris P Lettus]

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[Kris P Lettus]

Also this belongs in the MMA subforum.

In the sports forum cause you know, MMA is a real combat sport..

[St. Jimmy]

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[St. Jimmy]

In the sports forum cause you know, MMA is a real combat sport..

EXTREME hugging.

[St. Jimmy]

Also, still a Subforum.

[St. Jimmy]

Now get back in your boat and out of my forum.

[CSL]

In the sports forum cause you know, MMA is a real combat sport..

Might wanna go post on The People's Sports Website then hombre

[Kris P Lettus]

EXTREME hugging.

http://www.mmaturf.net/dev/smf/gallery/1_08_05_08_10_12_12.gif

http://www.mmaturf.net/dev/smf/gallery/0/1_12_06_08_1_41_06.gif

http://mmaopinion.com/files/2009/07/gif.gif

[Kris P Lettus]

Might wanna go post on The People's Sports Website then hombre

I'm not the one talking shit.. I started posting here when pro wrestling was still entertaining.. Haven't watched for years and only come in here when MMA is being discussed..

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

WWE will never be as good as ufc that's for damned sure.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

lol tho I must say I like wrestling when it is at it's best... so I don't understand when pro wrestling fans get all butt hurt over comparisons to MMA.

[Funky Fly]

I watch both, But Dale and Krispix are totally right. Funny thing is, it's not like MMA just showed up one day and took WWE's audience. The 'E has been doing everything it can to kill its own product for years. It all started with the botched Invasion, then super saiyan HHH for years, Randy Orton's premature title reign, putting a stop to Paul Heyman's great booking, the watering down of Cena, etc, etc and here we are in 2009. MMA went from human cockfighting to a legit sport with a HUGE worldwide following and WWE is for kids again.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Especially considering most who post on this forum don't like the current product... and most who watch the ufc who aren't total marks for "pure mma" (ie. huge homos) love the ufc.

You'll find more fans of mma satisfied with the ufc than you will of pro wrestling fans satisfied with the wwe.

[dablackguy]

lol tho I must say I like wrestling when it is at it's best... so I don't understand when pro wrestling fans get all butt hurt over comparisons to MMA.

Its that sense of entitlement that the wrestling folk have. The one that causes them to get all "butt hurt" when someone comes down on WWE.

Dale is on the mark here. UFC successfully marketed to the disregarded attitude era types and gave them something real, flashy and most importantly exciting.

As a wrestling fan for a long time, I definitely find that UFC gives me what Vince doesn't.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

lol my favourite thing the IWC believes is that Brock was foolish to walk away from wrestling because he couldn't handle it. LOL he's a thousand times more famous and more respected now than if he stuck with wwe.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

If Brock was in the WWE stll he wouldn't be highlighted on ESPN....


But anyways, it's like the ufc is a pro wrestling company (because they have such a similar platform other than real meaningful results) but with an air of actual legitimacy. If WWE actually tried to figure a way to make itself come off as legit (and there are ways) it would be such a better product.

[IRodC]

If WWE actually tried to figure a way to make itself come off as legit (and there are ways) it would be such a better product.

For Sure, Brawl For All was very legit and it came out great..................didnt it?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

For Sure, Brawl For All was very legit and it came out great..................didnt it?

I'm not saying legit as in real results and real fights. I'm saying adding an element to realism to the product.

[IRodC]

Blading isnt allowed anymore, they are getting everything censored, so realism isnt their thing, its mostly stories and acrobatics, and they are making money so good for them

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Blading isnt allowed anymore, they are getting everything censored, so realism isnt their thing, its mostly stories and acrobatics, and they are making money so good for them

lol again you're totally missing my point. Realism isn't "blading". Realism is something like making match results mean something as opposed to just another angle. And not having phony, shitty angles like HHH attacking randy orton in his home. It's really not THAT hard.

But I can see your mind is already made up so have a good one buddy. Keep watching John Cena pander to 8 year olds and enjoy yourslef :)

[IRodC]

Your wishing for better, more compelling angles, not realism. Which is what most fans complain about.

[The Mackem]

ROH! ROH! ROH!

[thecc]

ROH! ROH! ROH!Fuck u czwfans come say shit now.

[FourFifty]

Yea........................................................................... The 1950's and before hand just called. They want their "It's a real sport" mindset back.

I'll give MMA and UFC all the credit in the world. These guys are REAL FIGHTERS, WHO ARE OUT THERE TO HURT PEOPLE.
WWE, on the other hand, are athletes who are there to put on a show, and are trained to protect each other in a very physical environment.
UFC is based on athletic performance.
WWE is based on telling a story.


It's like you're saying "Pepsi runs a better supermarket than the supermarket because they have better soda than the supermarket." Well it's a damn shame I have more than just cola on my shopping list.

*EDIT*
And one more thing.
Also this belongs in the MMA subforum.

[Funky Fly]

No it doesn't. :mad:

This is a wrestling topic.

[FourFifty]

Fly, I respect you modship, but this guy is clearly praising UFC (that is a real sport, mind you) with a very thin thread of "logic" to intertwine this into wresting. He could write the same thing about UFC, but replace UFC with Hanson concerts, and still have the same amount of topical text on wresting as he compares it to Hanson concerts.

[St. Jimmy]

This is not a wrestling topic. MOVE IT.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Your wishing for better, more compelling angles, not realism. Which is what most fans complain about.

People acting more realisticaly to situations. I figured it was realism


And this is a wrestling topic, because I want WWE to take notes from UFC on how to run a superior product. MMA is so much like wrestling it is ridiculous.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Good old butt hurt wrestling fans... so typical.

[The Mackem]

Interesting Bread.

UFC has been building for over 15 years though to where they are now, getting stronger with each year. It would be very hard for WWE to adopt UFC's exact style and to stay in business. What would they do with their TV shows? I think the audiences still want to see wrestling each week. What do you think they should do in general? Introduce weight classes etc?

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

They don't have to introduce weight classes. But I mean having divisions wouldn't hurt anyone... an IC title division with top contenders and so forth... and world title division etc... and a cruiserweight division so we don't have to see stupid shit like the big show vs. Evan Bourne.

I think NWA used to have a ranking system for who was in line for title shots. That makes every match actually mean something.

Alsol you don't have to have heel turns every 2 weeks, and tag teams always breaking up. More is less, and less is more. If you hold back on all the zany shit and try conduct it as an actual business and not a fucking freakshow, people will buy into it.

I mean think about it... Anderson Silva was the UFCs sweetheart... all it took to turn him heel was 2 shitty, god awful fights, now everyone wants to see him get beat more than anything in the world. He didn't hit anyone with a chair, he didn't curse the fans week in and week out... all he did was fight boring but still be the best. WWE obviously can't emulate this exact thing, but it's subtle. You could even parallel his heel turn to CM Punks ongoing heel turn. CM Punk didn't necesarilly do anything over the top or out of the ordinary, he just happened to do a few things to piss off the fans, now they boo him. They don't need to force everything the way they do without any rhyme or reason. Honestly, Smackdown is the only show that has a style anywhere close to resembling what I'm talking about. Competitive, athletic matches, for the most part realistic angles (other than pretty ricky :| and kane being involved in anything).

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

And I realize there's an IC title "division" but not really. It's jsut a bunch of random matches thrown together. If you actually selected a bunch of guys and palced them into the division, ranked them and had them wrestling for title shots every week, and to make there way up the ranks every week, it would make everything mean something. It'd make it seem like legit competition, even if it's "fake", people would still be interested.

[FourFifty]

People acting more realisticaly to situations. I figured it was realism


And this is a wrestling topic, because I want WWE to take notes from UFC on how to run a superior product. MMA is so much like wrestling it is ridiculous.

It's like you're telling 7up to take marketing advice from Jack Daniels, while you have no legitimate experience marketing beverages. While they do have some similarities, it's still apples and oranges.

[FourFifty]

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/10/30/128698441067981693.jpg

[The Pope]

UFC is real.

[FourFifty]

UFC is real.

Such a stunning addition to this thread. Quite profound. Mere words cannot express the excellence in your articulation. While one could make the argument that we have a modicum of gauche logic in our leitmotif the foundation of our argument remains the same.

However, there is one person who'll disagree with the separation of UFC and WWE.
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Dale, you have a hell of an ally in this man.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

It's like you're telling 7up to take marketing advice from Jack Daniels, while you have no legitimate experience marketing beverages. While they do have some similarities, it's still apples and oranges.

No matter how real the ufc, they are still marketing characters, just like the wwe does. To not see that is completely blind.

I would compare it to Labatt taking advice from Jack Daniels. Beer and hard liquor, they aren't exactly the same but they have many, many similarities. Namely, they both get you wasted.

Also, since you're completely out to lunch I guess I should let you know, MMA's deepest roots are from pro wrestling. Listen to the Bill Simmons podcast with Dave Meltzer. Though I guess you know more than him as well.

[Kane Knight]

It's like you're telling 7up to take marketing advice from Jack Daniels, while you have no legitimate experience marketing beverages. While they do have some similarities, it's still apples and oranges.

It's more like if he was telling Coke to take advice from Royal Crown after RC managed to overtake them in almost all respects.

Pro Wrestling and UFC, like it or not, largely have the same audience. WWE still trumpets their appeal in the adult male category, because that's their core audience, even if it's no longer their target audience. I know this whole thing asks you to go beyond your childish sense of "self-entitlement=reality," but try for a moment.

The platforms, while "different" in your own estimation, can benefit greatly from one another, or in this case, one can benefit greatly from the success of the other. Just because one is an actual sport, and the other is for guys who aren't ready to come out of the closet does not mean that lessons learned from one cannot be applied to the other. This has already been covered in this thread, to which the only rebuttals you seem to be able to offer break down into "that's different, damn it!" Which really isn't true. Not in any meaningful sense.

[IRodC]

Lesnar (and maybe Rampage) are the only characters they are marketing, most of the other guys they market are great fighters with personalities ( you know, something that people tend to have).

Some of the guys that were in Pride did pro wrestling for money not because they wanted to market themselves at characters. Sakuraba was one of the few that came from pro wrestling to "shoot-fighting" and he still wasnt a character, just a great fighter.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Lesnar (and maybe Rampage) are the only characters they are marketing, most of the other guys they market are great fighters with personalities ( you know, something that people tend to have).

Some of the guys that were in Pride did pro wrestling for money not because they wanted to market themselves at characters. Sakuraba was one of the few that came from pro wrestling to "shoot-fighting" and he still wasnt a character, just a great fighter.

Lulz you have no idea what you're talking about. Just because someone isn't completely over the top does not mean they aren't a character. Sakuraba had the flash and finesse of any character. Josh Barnett, the baby faced assassin? The guy is a total pro wrestling character, he knows how to pander to a crowd as well as anyone. Wanderlei the axer murderer Silva? They fed the guy a bunch of Japanese cans to turn him into the most terrifying man in MMA, his character is that he's a fighting machine.

UFC? Matt Hughes is a character, a classic heel, but well respected nonetheless. GSP is a classic baby face, people don't cheer him because his matches are overly exciting, since they're so one sided, they cheer him because he's pure class inside and out of the octagon. The Iceman Chuck Lidell? Purely a character, he's known for the one punch knockout, that's what people associate with him, that's his character. Lyoto Machida just brought Karate back... he cut a beauty promo after his fight with Evans, now the fans love him. He represents something they loved as kids, in karate.

Randy Couture? The old man, the grizzled veteran that you always want to win. Nogueira? The classic beaten up punch drunk warrior who never backs down from everyone and always fights back.

Most of these guys are characters, they aren't playing one in all cases, they just ARE characters. It's how you get behind fighters. It's why certain guys can't headline shows, because no matter how fucking good they are, they are just too boring and don't appeal to an audience.

Use your fucking head and stop talking out of your ass.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

People are so scared of admitting pro wrestling and mma are alike... I just don't understand why.

[Kris P Lettus]

WWE still trumpets their appeal in the adult male category, because that's their core audience, even if it's no longer their target audience.

UFC 100 sold over 1.5 million beating out the three of the WWE biggest PPV's of this past year combined..


* WrestleMania – 970,000
* Backlash – 185,000
* Judgment Day – 235,000

[Kris P Lettus]

Sorry for getting technical and throwing facts around..

Also, stfu with this moving this thread to the MMA forum shit.. This is a topic where Jewstead is saying the WWE should follow what Zuffa has done with their product.. This is about changing prowrestling and not MMA..

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Yeah UFC outdrew WWE huge with that number. Think about where people are putting their money. Both ppvs are for about 40 bucks, and people aren't going to pay 80 bucks for both ppvs. People are dishing the big bucks for UFC and not for the WWE. I WONDER WHY. It must be because the two producst have absolutely nothing to do with one another :|

[St. Jimmy]

K. We're just gonna spam the MMA subforum from now on. Thanks.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

K. We're just gonna spam the MMA subforum from now on. Thanks.

lol you're such a fuckwit

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Do you not realize I'm a pro wrestling fan? Like are you all actually retarded?

[Kris P Lettus]

K. We're just gonna spam the MMA subforum from now on. Thanks.

And we will ban you..

:kiss:

[St. Jimmy]

And we will ban you..

:kiss:

GO for it.

[Kris P Lettus]

I'm not gonna get you banned if you don't break any rules..

[#1-norm-fan]

Pretty sure the lead UFC has in PPV Buyrates is completely killed and then some by WWE's lead in merchandising. Just throwing that out there. I think WWE needs to do some things UFC like though. Promoting win/loss records being one.

[#1-norm-fan]

On top of that, UFC having more PPV buys might actually have something to do with it not being visible 4 times a week on free tv, therefore forcing people to actually pay to see it...

[Kris P Lettus]

Both of those statements are bullshit..

I see alot more TapOut shirts around these days than John Cena shirts.. Also, some form of MMA is on tv every day whether it is UFC Unleashed, TUF, WEC, HDNET Fights, Bodog, Fight Zone TV, etc, etc, etc..

[#1-norm-fan]

How many times can you see Brock Lesnar fight on free tv between PPV fights?

[Kris P Lettus]

Possibly 5 cause that's how many times he's fought MMA.. Actually, 4 cause his first fight was in K-1 which Zuffa doesn't own..

[FourFifty]

People are so scared of admitting pro wrestling and mma are alike... I just don't understand why.

I've said they're alike.
Coke and Jack Daniels are both beverages.
Apples and Oranges are both fruits.
Yea, I had an abstract meaning with my metaphors, but it's not my fault no one caught on.

However for as many similarities they have, they have even more differences. One is a show, one is a contest. One has corporate sponsers plastered in the middle of the ring, the other has a clean ring. One is based around people trying to hurt each other, the other is based on people trying to look like they're trying to hurt each other. One championship means your the best, the other means you're marketable. One only has action inside the ring, the other can have home invasions.

Do I need to go on?
So let's make WWE more like UFC, and it'll go bankrupt. If they based things even halfway on athetic preformance then their top stars would need to find work elsewhere. The main event will be polluted with a cornucopia of people that most fans don't care about.
In addaiton to that 2 or 3 shows monthly will prevent anyone from making any money. Let's go ahead and make Noid's wet dream come true and give Val Venis a major title, and watch everyone lose shirts.

Apples and oranges.

Also, if you're not a wrestling fan then why are you here? Don't spam this board just because you're butt hurt because MMA is a subforum while wrestling has more than one forum.

[Funky Fly]

How many times can you see Brock Lesnar fight on free tv between PPV fights?

You know that people can't actually fight that many times and not have severe health problems, right?

That is the only drawback to real fighting. The way some of these guys are, if they could do it every day, you know they would. But they can't, not without getting brain damaged. Never mind that it's on pay per view.

The point of this thread is to look at WWE's shortcomings and how they've allowed MMA to take their place. At the height of the nWo, I had a wolfpac shirt and you know what used to happen? Every time I wore it, didn't matter where I was people would throw up the wolfpac hand sign or the 4 life hand sign. Complete strangers. I could wear a WWE shirt now and people would just be like "you big gay."

WWE got complacent once they were on top with no competition. They stopped trying to be the best because they were the best on a technicality. They started putting a stop to all the things that made them great. They held down a lot of people and elevated other just to be fed to HHH. Meanwhile, MMA was picking up in the rest of the world. UFC was reorganizing into a legit organization with weightclasses, rules and real athletes. Where were all of Kurt Angle's contemporaries going when he was on top of the WWE? MMA. It was slowly rising in popularity, while WWE had been steadily losing ground.

And it wasn't from competition. They were doing it to themselves. And then it happened: Spike TV, looking to fill the gap left by the WWE signs with the UFC. Now there's UFC Unleashed, UFC's greatest Knockouts ,UFC Fight Night, The Ultimate Fighter. Hell, they've even shown PPVs held in Europe for free on Spike. Now how do you beat marketing like free PPVs?

I mean, it's not like the WWE isn't trying with the cash giveaways, Donald Trump and celebrity hosts, but it's a case of one step forward, three steeps back. It's not enough. And St Jimmy, #1-wwf-fan, 450 and IRodC, we don't say these things because we want the WWE to fail. We say them because we want them to do well. We want them to be exciting and entertaining. Why wouldn't we? We're wrestling fans. If I weren't I'd be posting at The People's MMA Website.

[FourFifty]

The only thing worse than arm chair booking by fans is arm chair marketing by douche bags who aren't fans.

[#1-norm-fan]

You know that people can't actually fight that many times and not have severe health problems, right?


I'm not saying "shame on UFC for not having it's guys fight twice a week." That's exactly why they don't fight three times a week. But that also means when they do fight it's going to cause people to spend money on it because that's their only opportunity to see them.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

Really it's simple stuff like 3 on one attacks should be complete domination. That's what would bring an element of realism back. WWE should book using logic. If A happens, than B should ensue. If person A beats person B, than person A is better and should be in title contention where as person B should not. I think you guys are completely over-reacting to good 'ol Crashbang and that's really all he was implying.

[#1-norm-fan]

Possibly 5 cause that's how many times he's fought MMA.. Actually, 4 cause his first fight was in K-1 which Zuffa doesn't own..

You can see Brock Lesnar fight 5 times on free TV between fights? :wtf:

[Funky Fly]

I've said they're alike.
Coke and Jack Daniels are both beverages.
Apples and Oranges are both fruits.
Yea, I had an abstract meaning with my metaphors, but it's not my fault no one caught on.

However for as many similarities they have, they have even more differences. One is a show, one is a contest. One has corporate sponsers plastered in the middle of the ring, the other has a clean ring. One is based around people trying to hurt each other, the other is based on people trying to look like they're trying to hurt each other. One championship means your the best, the other means you're marketable. One only has action inside the ring, the other can have home invasions.

Do I need to go on?
So let's make WWE more like UFC, and it'll go bankrupt. If they based things even halfway on athetic preformance then their top stars would need to find work elsewhere. The main event will be polluted with a cornucopia of people that most fans don't care about.
In addaiton to that 2 or 3 shows monthly will prevent anyone from making any money. Let's go ahead and make Noid's wet dream come true and give Val Venis a major title, and watch everyone lose shirts.

Apples and oranges.

Also, if you're not a wrestling fan then why are you here? Don't spam this board just because you're butt hurt because MMA is a subforum while wrestling has more than one forum.

It's not even a case of changes to product, so much as it is a need to refrain from hurtful practices:

-They need to build credible new stars. They put the title on Benoit after a 6 month build and it was epic. They put the title on Randy Orton out of nowhere and watered him down and it failed.

-They need to give the core audience what they want. The core audience has always been yound men. What do they want? Action. That doesn't mean you can't have Cena and Mysterio pander to the kids, it just means let's not make it the major focus of the show.

-Let's have a little less holding down of people who you don't personally like even though the fans are all over them. No more RVDs and Chris Jerichos being overlooked despite being the most popular guys around. If the fans want them, then push them. Don't cut the legs out of the pushes unless the fans cool off on them. Or better yet, take them in a new direction and try to get the fans back into them. Look what it did for Christian.

[Funky Fly]

The only thing worse than arm chair booking by fans is arm chair marketing by douche bags who aren't fans.

I'm neither arm chair booking nor am I arm chair marketting. I'm pointng out what's worked and what hasn't. Call me all the names you like, but the WWE has steadily lost ground between the attitude era and now: FACT. The UFC and MMA in general has been steadily rising in that time: FACT. The UFC exploded in popularity since signing with Spike TV: FACT. I'm not trying to say wrestling sucks, because it doesn't and fuck anyone who says so. I'm saying the WWE is digging a hole it can't get out of and some of the solutions to its problems lie in what the UFC is doing. Note that I said some. Answers and inspiration can come from strange places, so is it so hard to believe that the UFC might hold some of the solutions to WWE's problems?

I'm not saying "shame on UFC for not having it's guys fight twice a week." That's exactly why they don't fight three times a week. But that also means when they do fight it's going to cause people to spend money on it because that's their only opportunity to see them.

Now there's UFC Unleashed, UFC's greatest Knockouts ,UFC Fight Night, The Ultimate Fighter. Hell, they've even shown PPVs held in Europe for free on Spike. Now how do you beat marketing like free PPVs?

Really it's simple stuff like 3 on one attacks should be complete domination. That's what would bring an element of realism back. WWE should book using logic. If A happens, than B should ensue. If person A beats person B, than person A is better and should be in title contention where as person B should not. I think you guys are completely over-reacting to good 'ol Crashbang and that's really all he was implying.

Correct. No more super saiyan shit. Come on. We're not asking for much here.

You can see Brock Lesnar fight 5 times on free TV between fights? :wtf:

They showed his title win against Randy Couture just yesterday.

[Kris P Lettus]

You can see Brock Lesnar fight 5 times on free TV between fights? :wtf:

If they decided to highlight him on UFC Unleashed, yes..

Not really "free tv" anyway cause it's cable..

[HeartBreakMan2k]

And you don't need to watch guys fight 3 times a week in the UFC, you know why? Because every match matters! There are title implications in every single match, that's the other thing WWE misses. You know that 85% of their shows are just throw-away matches.

With that, I don't need to see Brock fight every week, because I know when I see Cain fight that it's building towards a fight with Brock. Their midcarders matter.

[Emperor Smeat]

WWE biggest problem has been occurring since they publicly focused RAW as their flagship show which means every year or when they do trades, they keep weakening their other shows when RAW seems to be getting stale or when Smackdown seems to be a better show than RAW.
They were on a decline once they bought WCW and ECW but its not until they focused on the Brand split on just RAW that most of the current problems that could have been fixed seem to be still going on.

[DaVe]

Yeah, there's some stuff on both sides of the argument I agree with. WWE really could do with throwing some logic into their booking in order to be bought better by the fans, etc.

But I'm also with #1-wwf-fan on the fact that while UFC 100 apparently way out-bought WWE's big PPVs this year, there is a crapload more to the WWE as a successful wrestling company than just PPV buys. They run way more TV (and movies and books which has pluses and minuses), way more merchandise sales, etc.

Vince judges how well he's running the WWE through profit earned. I have no idea what the UFC is like with regard to profit, but I don't think the WWE would be too far behind... if not ahead.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Really it's simple stuff like 3 on one attacks should be complete domination. That's what would bring an element of realism back. WWE should book using logic. If A happens, than B should ensue. If person A beats person B, than person A is better and should be in title contention where as person B should not. I think you guys are completely over-reacting to good 'ol Crashbang and that's really all he was implying.

[DaVe]

Yeah, there's some stuff on both sides of the argument I agree with. WWE really could do with throwing some logic into their booking in order to be bought better by the fans, etc.

I can spam, too.

[Kris P Lettus]

But I'm also with #1-wwf-fan on the fact that while UFC 100 apparently way out-bought WWE's big PPVs this year, there is a crapload more to the WWE as a successful wrestling company than just PPV buys. They run way more TV (and movies and books which has pluses and minuses), way more merchandise sales, etc.

No..

UFC has a highly rated reality show which runs up to three seasons a year, live fight nights every few months, Unleashed, then specials like Ultimate Knock Outs, Top 100, etc etc etc.. As a sponsor, UFC gets revenue from companies like Full Contact Fighter, TapOut, Throwdown, etc etc etc.. On top of that are the PPV which have been murdering WWE's for the past 3 years or so..

Another uneducated mark, speaking out of turn..

[St. Jimmy]

This topic is a lame flame war. Congrats.

[Kris P Lettus]

Also, Forrest Griffin just released a book, which I'd def buy of a John Cena book..

[St. Jimmy]

STRAWMAN.

[Kris P Lettus]

This topic is a lame flame war. Congrats.

Every post you make is a lame flame attempt so you are fitting in well..

[Haze]

Calling UFC a wrestling company is an inaccurate statement.

UFC and WWE are on completely different wave lengths, and are comparable only in the fact that one is a combat sport, and the other is plays the part of a combat sport. The UFC isn't producing characters in the same sense that the wrestling does. Fighters characters are who the fighters are or choose to be. Dana White didn't sign Rampage for his ability as a character, he signed him because he is one of the top competitors at his weight class.

UFC is a legitimate combat sport, the WWE just plays one on TV.

[Rob]

I dont think the two are that comparable. The UFC can do what they do because the competitions are real. The emotions for the most part are real.

WWE is entertainment.

Real sports aren't entertainment? Why the hell do you watch then?

You are right on one thing though. They aren't comparable. UFC absolutely kicks their arses on PPV and that's where the money is made. UFC can break the 1 million buys barrier on PPV and WWE never will even if they add every international buy they can.

[Rob]

Yeah UFC outdrew WWE huge with that number. Think about where people are putting their money. Both ppvs are for about 40 bucks, and people aren't going to pay 80 bucks for both ppvs. People are dishing the big bucks for UFC and not for the WWE. I WONDER WHY. It must be because the two producst have absolutely nothing to do with one another :|


You can't explain this logic and expect wrestling marks to understand.

Same with the Sherdog nut huggers too.

[CSL]

What is the point of this thread? UFC is hot right now. No shit. An obvious point. UFC is more profitable than WWE atm. No shit, an obvious point. The opening post comparisons are daft. If Triple H fought in public once every 3-4 months, maybe you'd be onto something. However, comparing the 2 companies under those circumstances is ridiculous.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Calling UFC a wrestling company is an inaccurate statement.

UFC and WWE are on completely different wave lengths, and are comparable only in the fact that one is a combat sport, and the other is plays the part of a combat sport. The UFC isn't producing characters in the same sense that the wrestling does. Fighters characters are who the fighters are or choose to be. Dana White didn't sign Rampage for his ability as a character, he signed him because he is one of the top competitors at his weight class.

UFC is a legitimate combat sport, the WWE just plays one on TV.

lol it obviously isn't an actual wrestling company I just named the title as such to emphasize my point mon ami.

Dana also puts Rampage as a coach on TUF because of his personallity as well as his abilities as a fighter. Why do you think there are fight of the night bonuses? It's because these guys first and foremost are there to put on a show.

[Rob]

The point is that if WWE treated its own product and fans with more respect and realism, they wouldn't be sucking.

WWE needs to be cutting edge and up to date with modern day styles and influences. But they have ZZ Top on Raw this monday night. Says it all.

[The Mask]

what was the ppv rating for ufc 99? figures 100 would have a big number just because it's 100.

[Rob]

Anyone who thinks the real/fake thing makes this different has their head up their own arse.

[Juan]

I feel like this thread is gonna get out of control very soon.

[Rob]

what was the ppv rating for ufc 99? figures 100 would have a big number just because it's 100.

About 380,000. This was for a European show that was broadcast outside of the normal UFC timeslot and never had a solid marquee match. And it was a North American rating. Only Wrestlemania came close to this.

[Rob]

I feel like this thread is gonna get out of control very soon.

Why? The only problem I can see is the wrestling marks defending WWE like it's their child. They forget everyone posting here at some point actually liked wrestling. Most who stopped watching would LOVE to be able to watch something that entertained them. The wrestling marks (for lack of a better word) can't grasp this.

[The Mask]

ufc has a slightly different demographic than wwe though tbh. it obviously has it's wrestling crossover but then you're gonna find it has the boxing fans too and perhaps people into martial arts films. lot of people at muay thai had no time for wwe but were plenty interested in mma. people want to see what works.

[The Mask]

About 380,000. This was for a European show that was broadcast outside of the normal UFC timeslot and never had a solid marquee match. And it was a North American rating. Only Wrestlemania came close to this.

didn't know that :$ 98?

[Kris P Lettus]

didn't know that :$ 98?

lol

[St. Jimmy]

http://forums.mmaweekly.com/image.php?u=3762&type=sigpic&dateline=1245023345

[Rob]

ufc has a slightly different demographic than wwe though tbh. it obviously has it's wrestling crossover but then you're gonna find it has the boxing fans too and perhaps people into martial arts films. lot of people at muay thai had no time for wwe but were plenty interested in mma. people want to see what works.

I think you're very wrong there. If anything, WWE has a bigger demographic. Plus people still know more about WWE than UFC. Potentially WWE's fanbase should dwarf the UFC's.

Oh and UFC 98 did 640,000 North American buys.

[The Mask]

WHAT. i am just curious as to what a normal ufc ppv is compared to ufc 100 which would obviously be more popular

[Kris P Lettus]

Yeah because I am the only one here that prefers actual combat sport over staged exhibition..

And yes I do <3 Dana White, for the record..

[The Mask]

I think you're very wrong there. If anything, WWE has a bigger demographic. Plus people still know more about WWE than UFC. Potentially WWE's fanbase should dwarf the UFC's.

Oh and UFC 98 did 640,000 North American buys.

i'm not saying ufc will be more popular overall, just ufc has a wider spread of people to choose from i guess. wrestling is something i imagine nearly all of us got into at a young age.

[St. Jimmy]

http://beat.bodoglife.com/wp-content/uploads/FranklinLutter095UFC83.jpg

EXTREME ORAL COMBAT

[Kris P Lettus]

WHAT. i am just curious as to what a normal ufc ppv is compared to ufc 100 which would obviously be more popular

Rob knows more about it, but I think they've been averaging over 500,000 North American buys for the past three years..

[Kris P Lettus]

http://beat.bodoglife.com/wp-content/uploads/FranklinLutter095UFC83.jpg

EXTREME ORAL COMBAT

http://www.ugo.com/sports/smackdown-moments/images/billy-chuck-wedding.jpg

[Rob]

WHAT. i am just curious as to what a normal ufc ppv is compared to ufc 100 which would obviously be more popular

They probably won't be doing 1.7 million buys again anytime soon but I'd be quite suprised if they didn't break the 1 million barrier at least twice in the next 12 months too. Brock Lesnar is a legit super draw now.

[St. Jimmy]

I mean, I guess MMA does have a few good things. It was part of the training of the most extreme combatant ever.

http://www.gerweck.net/steveblackman.jpg

[Rob]

Rob knows more about it, but I think they've been averaging over 500,000 North American buys for the past three years..

Without checking, that number isn't too far off. Had it not been for some sub par marquee European shows with poor time slots and a couple of Anderson Silva fights (who clearly isn't the draw people think he is), the number would be a lot higher too.

[St. Jimmy]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_E4nB9I9HSIw/ScwOno2TiaI/AAAAAAAAAmc/x1CKYdJrOpk/s400/Strawman-motivational.jpg

[Kris P Lettus]

I mean, I guess MMA does have a few good things. It was part of the training of the most extreme combatant ever.

http://www.gerweck.net/steveblackman.jpg

He never fought MMA, for the record..

[Kris P Lettus]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_E4nB9I9HSIw/ScwOno2TiaI/AAAAAAAAAmc/x1CKYdJrOpk/s400/Strawman-motivational.jpg

You guys smell that?? It's a metallic, metally smell?? Copper?? Steel?? Iron??

Yeah that's it.. The smell of irony..

[Juan]

Stop it, Jimmy.

[St. Jimmy]

Stop it, Jimmy.

Get this topic in the sub-forum where it belongs.

[Rob]

Jimmy is the exact reason people think wrestling fans are stupid cunts.

[St. Jimmy]

Jimmy is the exact reason people think wrestling fans are stupid cunts.

Wrestling fans are stupid cunts, what your point? MMA and Football fans are frat boys and jocks too. Doesn't change the fact that your bullshit belongs in your bullshit sub-forum.

[Juan]

This was a good topic, unfortunately, most wrestling fans are retards and can't accept criticisms about WWE unless it comes from them.

[Juan]

Wrestling fans are stupid cunts, what your point? MMA and Football fans are frat boys and jocks too. Doesn't change the fact that your bullshit belongs in your bullshit sub-forum.

:nono:

[Juan]

For the record, I agree with most of what Krispy, Funky, Dale and Rob(sans the condescending overtones) said. They made some very good points, but it's sad that most wrestling fans, or WWE fans I should say, can't take the criticism.

Thanks to the Vault i get to hear people complain all day and all night about how lame WWE has gotten. You would think these people would want WWE to be more like UFC.

[Juan]

Also this belongs in the MMA subforum.

EXTREME hugging.

Also, still a Subforum.

Now get back in your boat and out of my forum.

This is not a wrestling topic. MOVE IT.

K. We're just gonna spam the MMA subforum from now on. Thanks.

This topic is a lame flame war. Congrats.

STRAWMAN.

http://beat.bodoglife.com/wp-content/uploads/FranklinLutter095UFC83.jpg

EXTREME ORAL COMBAT


I mean, I guess MMA does have a few good things. It was part of the training of the most extreme combatant ever.

http://www.gerweck.net/steveblackman.jpg


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_E4nB9I9HSIw/ScwOno2TiaI/AAAAAAAAAmc/x1CKYdJrOpk/s400/Strawman-motivational.jpg



This is exhibit A for why people, and most people on TPWW, think wrestling fans are a bunch of retards.

[Funky Fly]

Wrestling fans are stupid cunts, what your point? MMA and Football fans are frat boys and jocks too. Doesn't change the fact that your bullshit belongs in your bullshit sub-forum.

Ok, According to St. Jimmy I am a stupid cunt, a frat boy and a jock. Anyone agree with this?

[Rob]

Ok, According to St. Jimmy I am a stupid cunt, a frat boy and a jock. Anyone agree with this?

Of course. Join the club!

By the way, why was this thread closed earlier?

[St. Jimmy]

I stand by my comments and still think this thread should be closed.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I stand by my comments and still think this thread should be closed.

You are coming off as a complete mongril

[Kris P Lettus]

Wrestling fans are stupid cunts, what your point? MMA and Football fans are frat boys and jocks too. Doesn't change the fact that your bullshit belongs in your bullshit sub-forum.

This does not belong in the MMA forum because it is not an MMA topic.. A wrestling forum mod (Juan), an MMA forum mod (me), and a super mod (Funky Fly) have all agreed on and told you this numerous times.. If you don't like the way the forums are being run, maybe you should leave.. Simple fact is, we are trying to discuss how the WWE could be better with using some of the practices that have made the UFC so great.. You are spamming what has been a good discussion and you are the reason this thread was closed.. Fine, great, you don't like MMA.. We get the point, so why not just not either constructively add to the conversation or stop opening this thread..

p.s. The "bullshit sub-forum" is in the real sports forum for a reason (it is a real sport where as before it was moved it was under the "wrestling" category) and also gets more hits than the actual sports forum itself.. I realize the sports forum will have more once football and basketball starts back, but that is not the point..

[St. Jimmy]

tl;dr.

[Kris P Lettus]

Wrestling fans are stupid cunts, what your point?

tl;dr.

Way to go on proving your own point..

[Juan]

lol

[Funky Fly]

tl;dr.

You gonna call us poopyheads, next?

[Haze]

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[Haze]

sorry...had to be done.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Adressing an earlier post from CSLI Manning.


Pro wrestling doesn't have to follow the formula exactly. It's more the spirit of it... It's as simple as not having HHH vs. Randy Orton every fucking month, or HHH vs. Randy Orton in teh 00ber pwnage biggest match in wwe history on RAW every 2 weeks. It used to be a cage match meant something, hell... it used to be a title match meant something, and so did a heel turn.

What wwe needs to take from ufc is the fact that when something happens, it means something. Yes HHH can wrestle once every week (preferably every 2 or 3 but we need to be realistic) but it needs to be against different wrestlers, in tag matches, 6 man tag matches.... And Randy Orton doesn't need to interfere in every fucking match he has, neither does legacy. When the 2 collide, when they go at it on the mic even...it should mean something, it shouldn't be just another episode of RAW. There should be weeks on end where they don't touch one another and confront one another. They can talk trash about each other but there doesn't always need to be all these "explosive situations" all the fucking time. HHH can beat MVP in a main event one night and then be interviewed after the match backstage or something and be like "Randy Orton, I'm coming for you". The next week, Orton can beat Mark Henry, and do the same thing. Trade it back and forth, and then after a month or so of taunting and shit talking, then you have them confront one another. Unfortunately it's all done and dusted but you get the idea.

That's what UFC does well... not necesarilly on purpose, but since there is time b/w fights, guys can talk shit up until the weigh-in and then all of a sudden you have that initial confrontation the night before the fight, and then the fight. It's a beautiful, natural thing and WWE can learn from it.

[What Would Kevin Do?]

UFC and WWE are night and day... They're not totally different, but they can never be the same. They complement each other at best.

First, UFC is real. Now I agree, UFC isn't more popular because it's real, BUT there's a bigger must watch aspect because of that fact. For example, I can read the results to a ppv, watch it 3 days later, and not care. On the night of UFC 100 though, I was asked "Why don't you just wait for it to be on TV." I thought about it, and honestly, because UFC is a real sport. I can't go several weeks without finding out what happened, and honestly, knowing what's going to happen takes away some of the interest. If I hear a UFC fight, and a ppv wrestling match are both amazing matches, I'm probably going to go farther out of my way to watch the WWE match. However, on the other hand, I'm much more likely to watch a UFC ppv live, then I am a WWE ppv.

And as far as characters go, WWE will never be able to match UFC, because UFC is real. These are natural characters, it's how people are. Granted they may be exaggerating their own traits a bit at points, they're acting by doing what comes natural to them. There are some great characters in WWE who can do that too, but there are way too many "characters" in the WWE that are just horribly forced. It's hard to get behind someone's character when they can barely pull it off because it's so foreign to them.

On the other hand, the UFC also has the advantage of being limited in its exposure. I highly doubt Dana White could put out 5 hours of original TV weekly. And while that exposure may be good for the WWE, it also hurts them. If UFC has a bad card, most people won't get burned out on 1 card, especially when there will be different fighters on the next card. How many wrestling fans however get sick of shitty storylines, or bad matches, and stop tuning in, just because they see the same thing so much? In an odd sense, it's sort of like supply and demand.

[Funky Fly]

See, that's ^^^ how it's done, St Jimmy.

[DAMN iNATOR]

I completely disagree with anyone of you in here who says UFC will always have more popularity than WWE.

I mean, come on are you really so serious about this line of shit you find necessary to pull out of your collective UFC fanboy asses? Yeah, there's more realism in UFC compared to WWE and they ARE doing better -- for now. But there's nothing to say that UFC might not take the exact same eventual downhill slide as WWE, and WHEN, not if, it happens, they will have to either learn from their mistakes, and not make the same mistakes The 'E has over the past approximately 7 1/2 years, and then MAYBE, just maybe, UFC will be able to stave off extinction until the next loss of interest takes place. But I for one do not think UFC can possibly make it as far as WWE, or even professional boxing for that matter, but I guess only time itself will (eventually) tell and slam shut the debate on this age-old matter forever.

[Rob]

Who said UFC has a bigger fanbase than WWE?

[DAMN iNATOR]

Also, St. Jimmy is right about one (1) thing...this thread DEFINITELY needs to be moved to the MMA Sub-Forum. The only thing it will do here is serve to continue this flame war. At least in the MMA Sub-Forum you won't have to worry about the Wrestling Forumers coming over every 5 minutes to defend their views on the matter, as we won't give a fuck, being perfectly content to let all the pro-UFC guys kiss each other's asses and try re-assuring themselves that they are so much better than those barbaric cavemen who watch WWE. I mean, FFS all UFC really is in the first place is just a bunch of glorified Lockdown shows, let's cut the shit and be honest, already.

[DAMN iNATOR]

Who said UFC has a bigger fanbase than WWE?

There I EDITED IT. Now is your unquenchable thirst for blood satisfied, or are you gonna come after me for more, DRACULA?:rant:

[Rob]

There I EDITED IT. Now is your unquenchable thirst for blood satisfied, or are you gonna come after me for more, DRACULA?:rant:

:rofl: What are you getting all upset for? I thought someone actually said it since you wrote it.

Thick sarcastic wrestling fan? You must be a hit with the ladies.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I still don't understand why people are getting so upset over this :S. I'm as much if not more of a wrestling mark than all of you.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

UFC and WWE are night and day... They're not totally different, but they can never be the same. They complement each other at best.

First, UFC is real. Now I agree, UFC isn't more popular because it's real, BUT there's a bigger must watch aspect because of that fact. For example, I can read the results to a ppv, watch it 3 days later, and not care. On the night of UFC 100 though, I was asked "Why don't you just wait for it to be on TV." I thought about it, and honestly, because UFC is a real sport. I can't go several weeks without finding out what happened, and honestly, knowing what's going to happen takes away some of the interest. If I hear a UFC fight, and a ppv wrestling match are both amazing matches, I'm probably going to go farther out of my way to watch the WWE match. However, on the other hand, I'm much more likely to watch a UFC ppv live, then I am a WWE ppv.

And as far as characters go, WWE will never be able to match UFC, because UFC is real. These are natural characters, it's how people are. Granted they may be exaggerating their own traits a bit at points, they're acting by doing what comes natural to them. There are some great characters in WWE who can do that too, but there are way too many "characters" in the WWE that are just horribly forced. It's hard to get behind someone's character when they can barely pull it off because it's so foreign to them.

On the other hand, the UFC also has the advantage of being limited in its exposure. I highly doubt Dana White could put out 5 hours of original TV weekly. And while that exposure may be good for the WWE, it also hurts them. If UFC has a bad card, most people won't get burned out on 1 card, especially when there will be different fighters on the next card. How many wrestling fans however get sick of shitty storylines, or bad matches, and stop tuning in, just because they see the same thing so much? In an odd sense, it's sort of like supply and demand.


Good post. However if the WWE's product was hot, you'd be much more eager to see the ppvs live. There are ways to make the matches seem more real.

Honestly, with the exposure thing... the wwe has such a gigantic roster, there's no reason for certain guys to be over exposed the way they are. It's just pure narrow mindedness.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

And also, why the fuck would I post this in the mma forum? Do you guys know anything about mma, this is about improving the wrestling product, not the mma product.

[Rob]

Don't bother. We are wrong. Wrestling is doing fine right now and is keeping its own fanbase glued to the TV every week.

[Juan]

DAMN iNATOR :nono:

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

It's funny that this is probably the best topic in the wrestling forum right now though. All these wangs wanna talk about is Steve Blackman, Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

(I don't mean everyone in the wrestling forum, just the ones who are wayyyy too defensive)

[Rob]

Well let's talk about Montreal and Bret vs. Shawn again. We haven't bleed the cunt out of this just yet and it's only been 12 years since it happened.

[Funky Fly]

The sad thing about everyone who is flaming here is that you seem to think we want the WWE to fail. WE DON'T.

Also, lol damninator

[Volare]

It's funny that this is probably the best topic in the wrestling forum right now though. All these wangs wanna talk about is Steve Blackman, Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart.

You forgot Velvet Sky's ass and Daffney.

[USAUSA1]

UFC have something WWE doesn't have "MOMENTUM". It's all about momentum. Something TNA never had and something WWE had twice in history,WCW once in history. Ever since the debut of The Ultimate Fighter,UFC been on a roll and hasn't drop the ball since.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

yep that's for sure. I still don't understand how WWE can't take pointers from the ufc... I mean hell UFC took elements of pro wrestling and made it work for them better the wrestling did.

[HeartBreakMan2k]

At the same time, WWE has had momentum within it's fan base several times and they shit it down every time. Randy Orton punting Vince McMahon in the head was HUGE, they had their next big real mega-star that their fanbase would have rallied behind and bought as the real deal (which ultimately would have put him over to the casual fan) and they let it go. Took them one or two weeks to make him just another guy again. They do it to themselves.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

It's because the product is so watered down, they are afraid to take risks to truly shift the business into another direction. They have no balls to run with any momentum they build, they think it's easier to maintain status quo and make all the money off of their merchandising and 12 year old pre teens. W/E works for them I guess, a damn shame they forgot about all of their multiple decade long fans.

[Rob]

yep that's for sure. I still don't understand how WWE can't take pointers from the ufc... I mean hell UFC took elements of pro wrestling and made it work for them better the wrestling did.

Wrestling is always at its best when it follows current trends and cultures. They should be copying every MMA submission, especially guillotine and triangle chokes, kimura's, heel hooks and knee bars. Simple moves people will understand and know they hurt.

Every WWE match is exactly the same these days. You might not believe it but they are. Face gets offense, heel gets heat, face comes back, heel gets some comeback before getting beaten by the same predictable finishing sequence. There is nothing wrong with finishers but sometimes you have to have main event guys win with other stuff.

MMA fights aren't the same. If you watch 5 fights on a UFC show, you generally get 5 different styles of fights. And even when you get guys winning with the same submission, the move gets more over and the fights don't suffer.

I fail to see why WWE can't work with this.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Uh oh Rob I think you made way too much sense for the forum it might explode.

[DaveBrawl]

How did this get to 4 pages? I figured based off the title alone that anyone that had watched Raw since 2002 would agree. :lol:

[Rob]

Uh oh Rob I think you made way too much sense for the forum it might explode.

Guaranteed at least 25% of the people here would argue against this purely because I wrote it though.

[McLegend]

I don't know if all the moves from MMA would translate well to pro wrestling. Worth a try, but I think the bigger thing WWE should do is simplify their story line's.

Just make it wrestler A wants to beat wrestler B because he has the title or he wants to prove he's better. Don't bring all these other stupid things into feuds.

Just keep it simple.

[#1-norm-fan]

Oddly, I feel like the people on both sides of this argument are coming off looking like a bunch of douches taking way too much pride in something they have no part in outside of sitting back on their couch and watching.

Just sayin...

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Yep, I'm a fan of both and I want the WWE to get better :)

[Kris P Lettus]

Oddly, I feel like the people on both sides of this argument are coming off looking like a bunch of douches taking way too much pride in something they have no part in outside of sitting back on their couch and watching.

Just sayin...

See and just two days ago I'd taken you off my ignore list..

[#1-norm-fan]

lol. I don't even know what that's supposed to mean...

[Kris P Lettus]

It means you are complete and total moron.. We can't have opinions on stuff we don't actively do??

That's is possibly the most retarded thing I've ever heard..

[Kris P Lettus]

That being said, how do you feel about gay sex??

[#1-norm-fan]

There's a difference between having opinions and flaunting some unwarranted sense of superiority because you are a fan of the almighty UFC as opposed to WWE and vice versa.

[#1-norm-fan]

And...

See and just two days ago I'd taken you off my ignore list..

Seriously. If you are so sensitive to seeing something written by someone online that you have to put them on an "ignore list" to prevent the chance that you might accidentally read something they wrote, fine. Kinda makes you a pussy BUT If that somehow makes you feel good, do it. Fuck it.

When you make it a point to say who's on your ignore list or bring it up and make it known to the world, then it just makes you a full blown retard. Seriously. You're actually a step BELOW "I'm moving you off my top 8 on my MySpace."

[Kris P Lettus]

lol

You are such a ridiculous person..

No one is flaunting anything.. I put you on ignore because 9 outta 10 of your posts are like these.. Nonsensical and retarded..

[#1-norm-fan]

lI put you on ignore because...

Seriously...

[#1-norm-fan]

Do you wanna find me on MySpace so you can block me and then write a nice blog about it?

Or maybe I can make a Twitter account so you can follow and then unfollow me and then you can tweet all day with stuff like "OMG NOT FOLLOWING #1-WWF-FAN ANYMORE JUST SO EVERYONE KNOWS!!!"

[Kris P Lettus]

See?? You still haven't answered my question.. Are we not supposed to have opinions on things we aren't currently active in??

I haven't played football in like 9 years, so by your logic, I can't discuss it??

Nonsensical and retarded..

[#1-norm-fan]

There's a difference between having opinions and flaunting some unwarranted sense of superiority because you are a fan of the almighty UFC as opposed to WWE and vice versa.

[#1-norm-fan]

That was posted a half an hour ago, retard.

[#1-norm-fan]

Nice and underlined and bold for you now. Thought that might help.

[Kris P Lettus]

No one has been doing that though.. The fact is UFC is much more popular than the WWE these days.. This thread is discussing how the WWE could take some of the things that made the UFC great and apply them to their product.. The only person how has been the least bit uppity was St. Jimmy..

Still a ridiculous thing to say, no matter how you try to explain it..

[#1-norm-fan]

I'm not gonna go through and quote all the stuff about "typical wrestling fans" and moving the topic out of our beloved wrestling forum just because it mentions MMA, and just the overpowering sense of entitlement by half the people who have posted that I wouldn't even be able to drill into your brain since it requires more than one dimension of thought, etc.

Swear to God though, I am SO close to blocking you though if you don't stop!!!!

[Kris P Lettus]

Also maybe if you thought out your posts and atleast tried to construct multiple points in one post, instead of this spamming 8 posts in a row, none of which add anything to the conversation style, you seem to have, that post wouldn't have been missed..

[#1-norm-fan]

Maybe if you had actually blocked me instead of talking about it like a teenage girl looking for attention, you wouldn't have to worry about it

[Kris P Lettus]

You use to do the same thing in the NFL threads..

[#1-norm-fan]

Did I? And I'm doing it again? That's grounds for a trip to the ignore list...

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I don't know if all the moves from MMA would translate well to pro wrestling. Worth a try, but I think the bigger thing WWE should do is simplify their story line's.

Just make it wrestler A wants to beat wrestler B because he has the title or he wants to prove he's better. Don't bring all these other stupid things into feuds.

Just keep it simple.

It can get personal too.... but just with trash talking, not because someone hit someone's wife with a sledgehammer.

[Kris P Lettus]

Considering this is our only contact in the past year, and you still seem to add nothing constructive to the conversation, perhaps..

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

I'm not gonna go through and quote all the stuff about "typical wrestling fans" and moving the topic out of our beloved wrestling forum just because it mentions MMA, and just the overpowering sense of entitlement by half the people who have posted that I wouldn't even be able to drill into your brain since it requires more than one dimension of thought, etc.

Swear to God though, I am SO close to blocking you though if you don't stop!!!!

I'll take the blame for the typical wrestling fan stuff, but that was because a lot of them were being douches and not listening or reading what I was saying. I'm not attacking wrestling and being like "OMG MMA IS LEGIT WRESTLING SUX", wrestling is fucking great, the craft can be a beautiful thing. It can just adapt to the times as opposed to being in a stalemate. That doesn't mean having twitters and myspace and talking about bromances. It means growing with your audience who was 13 about 10 years ago and now wants something that fits their niche a little better. UFC does that right now, and there's no reason that the WWE couldn't.

[#1-norm-fan]

Considering this is our only contact in the past year, and you still seem to add nothing constructive to the conversation, perhaps..

Don't "perhaps" shit. Grow some fucking balls back. You already talked about it like a little fucking pussy, trying to "threaten" people with ignore lists. It would have been respectable to just do it. Like I said, if you do it and no one else knows about it, it's for whatever personal reasons you have, and it's somewhat respectable. At this point, you're just digging a hole but at least salvage something and stop being a little bitch trying to use "ignore lists" as a threat.

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

Krispy my man, for the sake of this thread which was already on somewhat shakey ground I'll ask you to back off, pm him if there's enough hate to warrant it ;)

You too wwffan, ;)

[#1-norm-fan]

I'll take the blame for the typical wrestling fan stuff, but that was because a lot of them were being douches and not listening or reading what I was saying. I'm not attacking wrestling and being like "OMG MMA IS LEGIT WRESTLING SUX", wrestling is fucking great, the craft can be a beautiful thing. It can just adapt to the times as opposed to being in a stalemate. That doesn't mean having twitters and myspace and talking about bromances. It means growing with your audience who was 13 about 10 years ago and now wants something that fits their niche a little better. UFC does that right now, and there's no reason that the WWE couldn't.

It's not all one dimensional though. WWE could decide to go a hundred diffent directions. They could completely copy UFC's style, go old school wrestling or they could just run the dramatic weekly show that worked 10 years ago. If the writing is good, any of those methods has the chance to be huge and make money and draw a crowd of some type. If the writing sucks, the "perfect" formula bombs. There really is no right or wrong "style".

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

It's not all one dimensional though. WWE could decide to go a hundred diffent directions. They could completely copy UFC's style, go old school wrestling or they could just run the dramatic weekly show that worked 10 years ago. If the writing is good, any of those methods has the chance to be huge and make money and draw a crowd of some type. If the writing sucks, the "perfect" formula bombs. There really is no right or wrong "style".

See at the end of the day though the formula is one dimensional. The idea is simple, people are paying to see guy a face guy b, and they want it to be good. You can throw all the sledgehammers, the necrophilia, the crucifictions, the man on women violence, the arseny, the attempted manslaughter.... it's all a way to get the fans to buy into guy a vs. guy b. The problem is, the zanier and straight up more fucking stupid it gets, people stop caring. Take that for what it's worth.

The benefits of the realism are simple too.... if someone hit someone with a chair in the ufc there would be an uproar... obviously the wwe could never equal that uproar because it's scripted and everyone knows it. However, if people stopped getting hit by chairs EVERY week, and you know once or twice a year, someone really got laced, there would be way more of a reaction.

It's like fucking someone. If you're getting tang all the time, it gets boring no matter how bomb the sex is... however if little lady moves to school and ur onnly seeing her a few times a month, if even, the tang tastes that much sweeter.

[The Mackem]

How do UFC arrive at their matches? Is it simply the highest ranked UFC Heavyweight fighter gets a shot at the UFC Heavyweight champion? How are the rankings decided and how did Brock Lesnar come in and shoot straight to the top, or was that just a special exception due to his popularity coming in to the UFC?

[Loose Cannon]

The other guys might be better off answering, but from what I gather, it's a mix of rankings and $$$$ (matches that draw). With Brock, it was certainly about $$$, but he's proven to actually be a good fighter thus far. I argued Brock's shot at first because it came so fast, but he has made me eat my words thus far

[Ol Dirty Dastard]

How do UFC arrive at their matches? Is it simply the highest ranked UFC Heavyweight fighter gets a shot at the UFC Heavyweight champion? How are the rankings decided and how did Brock Lesnar come in and shoot straight to the top, or was that just a special exception due to his popularity coming in to the UFC?

Much like the wwe, they find the person that is best for business. Sometimes best for business is the top contender, sometimes it's just a big name.

For example when Randy Couture got the title shot against Sylvia, he was retired and hadn't fought at heavyweight in years, and was in fact a light heavy because the big boys were just too big. However, the heavyweight roster was lacking in drawing power because they were boring and not the best division, and that's what made them bring in Couture. It was genius because the fight made him even more of a legend and even more of a draw.


Almost seems like wrestling angle to me ;)

[Rob]

Almost seems like wrestling angle to me ;)


Oh come on now :)

[#1-norm-fan]

It's not even a UFC booking strength per se that WWE fails miserably at.

I've been saying WWE's #1 problem is the inability to make realistic characters as far as the scripted "wrestling abilities". I've never really known how to put it into words. I had the problem with the Rock. He was built as one of the greatest "wrestlers" of all time but his win-loss record was pretty abysmal. It didn't make sense. Outside of the man's amazing charisma and promo skills, I hated him as a character. Skills as far as putting on entertaining matches aside, the outcomes were meaningless.

Part of this is what is already being said it this topic but really, I don't think it's a "Take a lesson from UFC" thing seeing as how UFC doesn't pre-determine their winners at all. It's more of a "Take a lesson from common sense" thing and make each and every wrestler have their own little "imaginary wrestling ability". If someone can go through a stellar 20 minute match on PPV, don't have them get beaten in 5 minutes by a lesser opponent on free TV. If a 20 minute PPV match match against whoever matches their "imaginary skills", then keep that up. Let that be what they are all about.

In many ways though, this is being done superbly on Smackdown! The whole thing with CM Punk being able to pull through some great matches against main event opponents and then having problems with a not quite main event John Morrison two weeks in a row (A man who he has consistently had trouble beating for some reason) and getting beaten with a fluke pin after a long hard fought bout is AMAZING booking and everything wrestling should be.

He's losing non-title matches, which pissed everyone off when he was on Raw but now suddenly, it's actually being done in a smart manner and people aren't pissed.